Explaining Drugs to a Non-user [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

skarz

04-05-2006, 10:03 PM

Ok I need a little help. Me and a friend are always argueing about drugs, mainly hallucinogens. I talk about how much knowledge/wisdom/sprituality you can gain from them, but he doesn't really understand cause he's never used them. I'm trying to figure out how to explain how they can actually benefit you in these ways but i can't come up with the words. His argueing point is "Hey if you're hallucinating, how do you know you're actually gaining knowledge, isn't your mind just making it all up because it IS a hallucination"... So yea, how to explain the power of these drugs and how much you can learn from them too a non-user.

LIP

04-05-2006, 10:09 PM

Woah, i use weed to gain more wisdom about the world and nature around me, i use LSD and shrooms to have a trip.

They aint bad drugs, but they still aint the best (Cannabis)

C4nn4Bliss

04-05-2006, 10:09 PM

well the fact that multiple people have had the same hallucinations kind of proves that its not something totally random. Its going to be hard to explain if he is a stubborn person and wont step out of his picture to view yours and his at the same time

LIP

04-05-2006, 10:09 PM

I cant learn anything from a trip, apart from how much to take at one time, which i found out once lol

C4nn4Bliss

04-05-2006, 10:12 PM

i say make some mushroom tea mix it with orange juice, store it in your fridge, get him fuckin baked to where he is incoherent and then offer him some delicious orange juice hahaha

after 20-30 mins start debating about hallucinogens

hotpicklefart

04-05-2006, 10:46 PM

does he smoke herb??,,if so then he would know that even when you smoke you look into things with much more preception,,just explain to him that a harder drug is just going to affect that much more or,, you could tell him that many philosphers use shrooms for their profound sayings,,i do agree with you though you can defentiley see things from a different prespective which sometimes is a good thing and it's always a bitch when you go on a trip and never come home

2toker

04-05-2006, 11:07 PM

you can tell your buddy that it had been observed there is a strong similarity to the "religious" experiences written about by prophets,saints so forth and the experiences you have on acid. there was a book written called the magic mushroom and the cross that takes actual personal descriptions of both religious and acid/mushroom/peyote/mescalin "enlightenments" and you cant help but notice how similar they are. but you are right, as one old acid head to another, he has nothing to compare it to. you have just have to be there to experience it!

dion

04-06-2006, 12:27 AM

you can't force someone to see anything your way. just drop the debate after you state your facts. say "end of story, end of debate, I cant help you open your eyes if you force them shut." then drop it yourself, except for talking about an experience whenever you trip. curiosity will eventually set it if that person wants to delve into the world.

everyone's experiences with anything is entirely relative, and it makes sense that a drug that digs deep into your subconscious (think of religious indocrination - don't make that negative - you experienced as a child with your parents) will make you have a "religious or spiritual awakening"

however that is just my 2 cents

adios
Dion

chronic boom

04-06-2006, 01:02 AM

well if he's interested may i suggest two books that will introduce you to the history and culture of these drugs.

The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley (this is what the The Doors named themselves after) is about discovering mescaline when it was legal and given to test patients in clinics. Huxley used it heavily himself and wrote theory that will completely blow your mind.
and...
The Electric Cool Aid Acid Test by Tom Woolfe follows the story of an award winning writer's journeys into the realm of LSD, also when it was still legal. This is where the hippy movement STARTED, no joke, these guys where the ORIGINALS!!!! (see also Timothy Leary

these drugs are defintely spiritual, but not like church (bull shit) spiritual, I mean like throwing your mind out into the ether spiritual. The only way to really understand is to do them.

kracks

04-06-2006, 01:14 AM

you should read Fear in Loathing in Las Vegas- Hunter S Thompson, or show the film to your friend its quite good a pulling off an acid trip.

skarz

04-07-2006, 12:22 AM

Kracks... i love Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas! Hunter S. was an amazing writer. I'm currently reading The Great Shark Hunt and have Fear and Loathing on the Capaign Trail on hold. I just ordered "The doors of perception" from the library, thanks for the advice. Dion, i think you hit the nail on the head, that's a great point!

BigHomie

04-07-2006, 01:36 AM

I don't know if you get the Documentary Film channel (channel 197 here) but there is a great doc that they show all the time called "Hoffmann's Potion." Lots of good insight into lsd and it's medical uses in the beginning.

Tape that doc and make your friend sit down and watch it.

eddievanzant

04-07-2006, 01:39 AM

The answer is quite obvious: Trick him into taking LSD by means of food or drink.

BigHomie

04-07-2006, 02:00 AM

The answer is quite obvious: Trick him into taking LSD by means of food or drink.
That's NOT the answer at all. Never trick anyone into trying LSD for the first time. For the first time the person needs to be ready. If you give it to him when he isn't ready and he just starts tripping for no reason he's going to flip the fuck out. He's going to think he's a schizophrenic or gone crazy all of a sudden and he could have a very bad panic attack. It will be almost impossible to calm him down and there is a chance you'll end up having to take him to the hospital, and u both will be in a lot of trouble.

The answer is to educate him on the subject and most likely he will want to try it on his own.

hindu420spade

04-07-2006, 02:15 AM

LSD was used to treat Alchohalism, sucessfully I might add. In the 60s.

Tricking some1 into tripping is a BAD idea. A trip is based on the persons mood going into it. A trick trip will end in a person tripping you out w/his/her parinioa or other traits that was never obvious.

The religious impications are easily explained.

In the good old days grains and other foods went rancit often. But, the people still ate it. Halucjins are found in common wheta and rye molds.

I believe if you look hard enough you will find tons of info on this theroy. they have even tried pinning the Salem Witch hunts on bad grain.

I grew up in shroo country(south GA). I ate shroos A LOT. I loved the fact you could eat them every day and get to tripping. Plus no ill side effects. Unles you call a sore side and face musles from giggling and smiling all night and day bad.

alex waiting on the 2nd herring season......I am a fisherman. Please don't take the fishing as troll talk. I love to fish for salmon, hallibutt, cod, snapper, sole, pollock, rainbows, cutties, steelheads...........on and on........crabs 10 different kinds....3 diff kings alone.........mussels, clams, oyssters............I'm hungry............

Trichocereus Panza

04-07-2006, 02:29 AM

To the argument that "it's just a hallucination," you can say:

What is the standard you would use for "normal" perception for comparison? Everyone's perception is slightly different, and is continually altered by each food we eat, everything we put into our bodies, the amount of sleep we've had, sex, illness, hormones, physical labor, all the peculiarities of each person's particular physiology... ETC. Remind your friend that your perception is defined by many factors, and you can't separate YOURSELF from those factors, because YOU YOURSELF are that body, you are what you eat, sleep, experience, etc. Think not only foods and the ever-changing chemical states of the brain, but also the emotional filter that we always put over our experience of the world, and it is that emotional layer of personal experience that psychedelics can truly help the most with... by teaching you that you can actually be happy to be alive at each MOMENT of your life, rather than thinking about particular jealous ego concerns.

You can just be absorbed in the life all around you, connected to the reality of other people without forgetting that they "are really in there" and that they matter, they are another pair of eyes for the life of the world to see itself through.

You should say things of this nature.

lol, I could go on and on, but ditto on the Doors of Perception. I also recommend the DVDs "Ram Dass: Fierce Grace" and "Timothy Leary's Dead," if you can find them... and above all the book "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass. I recommend these not just for your friend but for you too.;)

skarz

04-07-2006, 03:14 AM

Trichocereus, that was a really good post, got me thinking. I'm definetely gonna use some of that material because it's so valid. I'm ready for another debate now! Keep feeding in your input, this is interesting.

eddievanzant

04-07-2006, 08:15 PM

That's NOT the answer at all. Never trick anyone into trying LSD for the first time. For the first time the person needs to be ready. If you give it to him when he isn't ready and he just starts tripping for no reason he's going to flip the fuck out. He's going to think he's a schizophrenic or gone crazy all of a sudden and he could have a very bad panic attack. It will be almost impossible to calm him down and there is a chance you'll end up having to take him to the hospital, and u both will be in a lot of trouble.

The answer is to educate him on the subject and most likely he will want to try it on his own.
Of course he should informed quickly and taken somewhere where he can't damage anything. Because this dude seems to be so against drugs, the only way to get him to take any would be for him to take a drug unintentionally.

are you kind

04-07-2006, 08:25 PM

get him to eat some mushrooms cooked into a pizza. definitely easier and won't freak him out as much. you can eat like one mushroom and feel it, but not totally trip out, but one hit of acid still gets you tripping.

actually don't trick him into eating anything hallucinogenic. thats just wrong. get him drunk and convince him its a good idea.

dion

04-07-2006, 09:30 PM

To the argument that "it's just a hallucination," you can say:

What is the standard you would use for "normal" perception for comparison? Everyone's perception is slightly different, and is continually altered by each food we eat, everything we put into our bodies, the amount of sleep we've had, sex, illness, hormones, physical labor, all the peculiarities of each person's particular physiology... ETC. Remind your friend that your perception is defined by many factors, and you can't separate YOURSELF from those factors, because YOU YOURSELF are that body, you are what you eat, sleep, experience, etc. Think not only foods and the ever-changing chemical states of the brain, but also the emotional filter that we always put over our experience of the world, and it is that emotional layer of personal experience that psychedelics can truly help the most with... by teaching you that you can actually be happy to be alive at each MOMENT of your life, rather than thinking about particular jealous ego concerns.

You can just be absorbed in the life all around you, connected to the reality of other people without forgetting that they "are really in there" and that they matter, they are another pair of eyes for the life of the world to see itself through.

Not trying to place any kind of a label on you or your post, but many of these principles directly correlate* with buddist ideals. If those did peak your interest skarz might i add reading a book about it.

Nothing strong if you dont want to, hell i have a book called "the dharma of star wars" ... draws similarities between jedi and buddist monks. I found the star wars to be soooooo in your face (and thats not blasphemous) it was distracting, but the parts that had real substance where very appealing

have a good one
Dion

orangeman

04-07-2006, 09:33 PM

Sorry but I have no advice for this, I used to try to help out non-users but most non-users who claim to hate drugs never will like them, they are too damn brain washed by gay groups like D.A.R.E. and other anti-drug groups. I tried to open up so many peoples eyes and they warn me off in digust. I just fuckin' hate non-users who dont even try to open up to what I try to school them on so....no I have no advice for you to give to your friend lol.

skarz

04-08-2006, 12:00 AM

I'm definetely not gonna trick him into using a substance... that's not very cool in my opinion. Orangeman, i know where you're coming from. I have had so many ppl tell me that i'm wasting my life and i'm not going to amount to anything. That probably ticks me off more then anything i've heard! I go to a hick school where i am about 1 in 6 kids out of a thousand that owns a tie-dye. Everyone drives trucks, hunts, fishes, and drinks budweiser... it's so shitty. I'm used to being called a stoner, even though i smoke like 2-3 a month, so it doesn't bother me because i know better then them. Their idea of becoming something in the world is working your entire life, retiring at age 60, having a wife and a few kids, and going on vacation every couple of years. I've already traveled a lot of North America, i'm going to college, and i plan on moving around the world and possibly doing some peace corps type work, but too them that's a waste of life because i'm not going to have tons of money. Sorry, that was a rant.

Well either way i'm not going to trick him into taking drugs, i don't agree with that, but i do think i'm going to mention some of the above books and videos. I think he's so sick of hearing it from me, if he can hear it from tons of other sources he'lll realize how many other people out there know the truth and agree. It's kinda sad how brainwashed the U.S. is :(

KingPhilie

04-08-2006, 12:02 AM

well dont force your opinion on anyone in the first place, that is wrong. It is also what our everloving gov does to us about pot, n most of us dont like it ^^, at least i dont. All you can do is tell him what you know, your experiences, and what you have gained from your experiences, if he doesnt wanna do it/ still thinks its bad, thats him, o well, roll on.

.PEACE.

skarz

04-08-2006, 12:14 AM

Trichocereus Panza

04-08-2006, 03:08 AM

I agree KingPhilie, i'm not trying to get him to do drugs or anything though, he just constantly talks about how it's going to ruin my life because he's so brainwashed by the everyday drug stories you hear. I'm trying to make him realize that's bullshit, yea some ppl do get messed up, but you have to know what you're doing.
Well then I would suggest finding some actual statistics on psychedelics, since those DO prove your point that the people whose lives get ruined from them are only a small minority. The amount of people who have breakdowns from LSD, for example, is much smaller than anti-drug propaganda would have you think, and is mainly the people who have prior symptoms of mental illness--the people who should NOT be taking it anyway. Point out that most bad trips are merely a result of irresponsible drug use, bad set and setting... and that the MAJORITY of psychedelics users (who you don't hear about because they know what they're doing and don't get hurt) are more likely to have positive life changing experiences.

And Dion, yeah of course a lot of what I said comes straight out of Buddhism so you're not mislabeling me. I don't "identify" with it but the practice has had the greatest influence on my life in the past few years.

Which reminds me, if your friend is sick of hearing about drugs then maybe it's better to just have meaningful conversations about life, which is more important anyway. Talk about your views and your appreciation of life which you can later mention have had to do with your positive experiences with psychedelics.

Check out erowid.org if you wanna look for statistics. Or just go on the basis of personal experience, most burnouts I'VE ever met are like that because of other drugs, definitely not psychedelics.

whitewalltoker

04-08-2006, 03:21 AM

If he didn't listen when you first talked to him he's most likely nbot going to listen to you now or read those books, but hey it's worth a shot right? If you educate him then we have another vote for the illegalization of marijuana (but that's probably not going to hapeen for a decade or two)

kingkong.bomb

04-08-2006, 03:37 AM

People in general (as you know) aren't very receptive to any kind of drug abuse. So as stated before, I would recommend telling about your experiences with psychadelics and how they have changed you, instead of telling him that "they aren't bad for you", because he won't ever buy it.

And above, "illegalization of marijuana"? lol, Legalization, I hope

StOneD.aS.FuK

04-08-2006, 03:48 AM

when your on drugs like hallucinogens, why wouldnt you learn new stuff and gain more knowledge?? i mean when your on drugs you think different, your in a whole new mindset, you think different, everything is in focus and you see things in a whole new light, you do different things and explore your mind, how can you not learn anything, even if it is your own existance you learn more about,

just tell your little friend to fucking try a drug so he can see for himself!

anyway how the fuck would he know anything if he hasnt even tried drugs before...so how can he possibly prove you wrong?!?!?!?!?!?!

Trichocereus Panza

04-08-2006, 04:50 PM

anyway how the fuck would he know anything if he hasnt even tried drugs before...so how can he possibly prove you wrong?!?!?!?!?!?!
I agree but...

Problem is, people ALWAYS argue that by not trying drugs, their objectivity isn't compromised, whereas you, the drug user, are the one who's biased after trying them because you've been brainwashed by the hallucinations (that you have no way of knowing whether they're real or not).

People just don't understand that isn't the way it really works: it is only by trying both and weighing both lifestyles that you get an idea of what drugs really are. I know that attitude sounds weird to us, but people really do think that way, I know I used to when I was in high school at least until I tried pot :D

Tell your friend that you heard from a 3.9 GPA honors student in college, a philosophy major... and I owe a lot of my creativity and intelligence to psychedelics and cannabis, which do NOT interfere with my work during the day, but at night and on weekends they help me work through the ideas that I would have trouble with otherwise, and strengthen my wholehearted commitment to truth and wisdom. And it can't be all in my head, since my philosophy professors certainly confirm that I know what I'm saying, what with getting A+'s on my last three papers.:dance:

hindu420spade

04-12-2006, 02:22 PM

I think I would write him/her off as a lossed cause and go on w/my life. Oh, and stay way they hell away from him before he decides he wants to be LEO and starts w/you.:dance: <---that's RUN

P.S. My wife makes a good point w/the trying of drugs. We do not use 80% or more of our brain? She/we think that drugs open up other parts of yopur mind that are not being used by people who have never tried anydrugs.:p

But for a person to say they have NEVER taken a drug? That's straight BS. It is just what they classify as drugs and not. Caffine is a DRUG. Nicotine is a drug! FOOD is a drug too some. No food is a drug too some....and on and on............:thumbsup: :p