Christians Beware: Jesus Kills Babies And Supports Genocide [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

Oneironaut

01-08-2006, 10:35 AM

According to mainstream Christianity, Jesus is a baby-killer. They don't like to publicize this fact, but it's true. Most strains of Christ worship preach the idea of the Trinity, which states explicitly that Jesus = God and God = Jesus. They are one and the same entity.

Christians also take the Bible to be a trustworthy book. If the Bible is not trustworthy, there is no reason to believe Jesus even existed, much less that he was the Son of God. The Bible is the sole source of this belief. Christians have to have faith in the Bible or else they wouldn't believe Jesus to be who they claim he is. They routinely use the Bible as a source of moral thought and believe Jesus/God to be a morally upright individual. They even worship this creature. And yet, right in the Bible, we see Jesus/God performing the murders of countless children.

And the LORD our God (= Jesus) delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: (Whatever happened to "thou shalt not kill?")

But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: (That's right, Jesus just said "save alive nothing that breatheth"!)

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
That's genocide! Jesus supports ethnic cleansing! Leave nobody alive, he says. Not one child or one woman. Kill them all, just because of their race. What a sick fuck. I really don't understand how people can be Christians when their own holy book admits that Jesus is a genocidal baby-murderer. Come on, admit it people. No loving God would ever even think of doing that.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Some more Jesus-approved genocide. Kill every Amalekite, just because they are the descendants of a people who got in the way of the Israelites crossing the desert a few hundred years before. What a sick, sick creature. Should we kill every German alive today because they got in the way of the Jews during the Nazi regime? Jesus would seem to have no problem with such an action.

And then there's Noah's flood. We all know this story. A few humans irritate God/Jesus, so he decides to murder almost every living creature on the planet in cold blood. And we present this to our children as a cute story, when Hitler and Stalin combined could not have done worse.

For those who for some reason think Jesus didn't believe in the Old Testament, he even admits what he did:

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
That's Jesus, admitting that God (i.e. himself) viciously murdered almost every land creature on Earth because the activities of a few humans had irritated him. And he doesn't even apologize.

Here we see Jesus use bears to kill forty children for taunting a bald man:

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

As if Jesus hadn't had enough dead children to satisfy him, he comes out and decrees this:

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
WHY DO CHRISTIANS STILL PUBLISH THIS STUFF? THAT'S BLATANT SUPPORT FOR CHILD MURDER!!! STOP IT ALREADY! There's no question about it, the Bible is not a good guide for moral thought unless you really pick and choose. Take the idea "thou shalt not kill". That's a good idea, but it's just common sense. How many philosophers have come up with that idea on their own, and without supporting child murder at the same time? They deserve much more respect than this mass murderer Jesus guy.

We can do a lot better just by thinking things through ourselves and acting in a spirit of respect for our fellow man. We don't need any holy books or holy leaders to tell us what to do, especially when they reflect moralities so ancient that they have no relevance to modern civilized society. If there is a loving God, the heinous creature in the Bible can't be it.

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-08-2006, 10:56 AM

wow how revealing...

im gonna go commit murder and justify it with my religious rights.

rldqaz

01-08-2006, 01:07 PM

the lord giveth the lord taketh away blessed be the name of the LORD

P.E.N.G.U.I.N.

01-08-2006, 08:03 PM

the lord giveth the lord taketh away blessed be the name of the LORD
I think that is the most foolish comment I've ever heard from a Christian.

How dare you worship a creature that contradicts itself. How dare you follow the orders of a creature and then let He do what He wants. You worship a hypocrite, and it's apparent that Jesus hates hypocrites. Maybe, you should listen to Jesus, who was probably just a man, maybe a man that had more abilities than most just because he awakened, but maybe you should listen to him and not worship this hypocritical being.

You fundamentalist Christians sicken me.

Polymirize

01-09-2006, 02:04 AM

oneironaut, can you say equivocation?

I don't know why you always insist so hard on literal interpretation, unless you just think you look heroic charging at straw men.

Again, as usual, I think I'm even with you in spirit, sort of, but geez do you have to be such an asshole all the time?

The fact is I've rarely seen a fundamentalist christian hardliner who insists on literal interpretation arguing with you on Cannabis.com.

* I say all this out of a sense of love *

Pyramidsonmars

01-09-2006, 03:20 AM

You're arguments show no logical reason to conclude that Jesus condoned, let alone acted out, the slaughtering of babies or mass genocide

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-09-2006, 03:48 AM

You're arguments show no logical reason to conclude that Jesus condoned, let alone acted out, the slaughtering of babies or mass genocidey'know, i was gonna say... where does it say "'Jesus said this was right"? where does it actually say that jesus agrees with this, and im pretty sure, even though i dont read the bible, that somewhere it says he does not agree with the LORD's workings.

all in all, isnt that why he sacrificed himself? in protest to his own father i say.

LegallyBlind

01-09-2006, 05:50 AM

Oneironaut, I'm so sick of reading your Christian bashing posts... Just please give it a rest, you don't have to, but come on man theres no need for all this negativity! :thumbsup:

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-09-2006, 06:30 AM

righto, makes ya just as bad as you think the christians you're bashing are...

beachguy in thongs

01-09-2006, 06:51 AM

How can you quote Deuteronomy as speaking of Jesus before his existence? That first passage is over 1200 B.C.

I looked up that passage and it says (33-35) But the Lord Our God handed him over to us, and we crushed him, his sons, and all his people. We conquered all his towns and completely desroyed everyone- men, women, and children. Not a single person was spared. We took all the livestock as plunder for ourselves, along with anything of value from the thowns we ransacked.

Now, use some common sense and realize that a Jesus figure would condemn such actions, and surely God could care less.

These people thought that God had commanded them to create Hell.

I guess that says the same thing.

clock

01-09-2006, 07:49 AM

y'know, i was gonna say... where does it say "'Jesus said this was right"? where does it actually say that jesus agrees with this, and im pretty sure, even though i dont read the bible, that somewhere it says he does not agree with the LORD's workings.

all in all, isnt that why he sacrificed himself? in protest to his own father i say.

How could Jesus not agree with the Lord's working when Jesus IS the Lord. Jesus did not die to protest his father because Jesus was the human form of the father (God). The father (God) the son (Jesus) and the holy spirit (I think this would be the spirit of God/Jesus that we let into our hearts when we get saved) are three different forms of the same being but that's my view, which is different from many others.

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-09-2006, 08:21 AM

jesus is a human incarnation of the father, whome is an incarnation of the holy spirit.

god was never human untill he was christ.

the experiance was absolutly changing.

Oneironaut

01-09-2006, 11:23 AM

oneironaut, can you say equivocation?

I don't know why you always insist so hard on literal interpretation, unless you just think you look heroic charging at straw men.
Well, if we're to accept some things as not literal and indeed merely metaphorical or fictional, how do we separate the truth from the fiction? Where in the Bible does it say "oh, this part didn't really happen, it's just symbolic"? How can you pretend to have faith in Jesus when you know the book he appears in is at least partly fictional? Who's to say it's not all fictional? To deny the truth of part of the Bible is to cast doubt on all of Christianity. And in the absence of evidence, it is only reasonable to conclude that all those wacky assertions of miracles and messiahs are just plain false.

Again, as usual, I think I'm even with you in spirit, sort of, but geez do you have to be such an asshole all the time?
I think people who give Bibles to children are the real assholes. I mean, this is a book that encourages child murder, genocide, racism, slavery, sexism, homophobia, and other destructive qualities. We really need to recognize this book for the mythological hate literature it is. If that makes me an asshole, then fine, I guess I'm an asshole.

The fact is I've rarely seen a fundamentalist christian hardliner who insists on literal interpretation arguing with you on Cannabis.com.

* I say all this out of a sense of love *
Well, to all the non-fundamentalist Christians, this only begs the question: why do you only believe in part of the Bible? How can you believe so wholeheartedly in a messiah who appears in a work of fiction?

Oneironaut

01-09-2006, 11:24 AM

You're arguments show no logical reason to conclude that Jesus condoned, let alone acted out, the slaughtering of babies or mass genocide
Are you implying that Jesus is not God?

Oneironaut

01-09-2006, 11:27 AM

Oneironaut, I'm so sick of reading your Christian bashing posts... Just please give it a rest, you don't have to, but come on man theres no need for all this negativity! :thumbsup:
Would you condemn me for bashing any other ideology that endorsed genocide? I see that such an ideology has immense influence in this country (about half of all Americans believe the world to be 6,000 years old) and I am doing what I can to combat it. Christianity breeds hatred, war, intolerance, depreciation of earthly life, and anti-scientific attitudes. I think that is good reason to attempt to falsify it.

Oneironaut

01-09-2006, 11:28 AM

Oneironaut

01-09-2006, 11:32 AM

jesus is a human incarnation of the father, whome is an incarnation of the holy spirit.

god was never human untill he was christ.

the experiance was absolutly changing.
How so? Didn't God already know what it would be like to be a human? Or did God not know everything?

beachguy in thongs

01-09-2006, 05:59 PM

Well, if God is warlike and Jesus is peacelike, that suggests to me that Jesus is not God and Christianity is a farce. But that's just me and my logic.
Well, you may know of my Roman Catholic upbringing, confirmed at St. Mary's. I have never looked at Jesus as God, but a creation of God sent to Earth to help humanity. We killed him, because humanity is evil. The same exact thing happened with Jimi Hendrix. If you don't believe humanity killed Hendrix, drugs did, then don't discuss that. Even if Jesus is not real, he still is better than all of us and someone whom we should all strive to be.

Jesus is God just like the tree in my backyard is God, and me and you. Him being the chosen one gave him a closer relationship with God to be able to relay His messages. But, just like the people threw around a black superstar until 1970, Jesus toured the land blowing peoples' minds. The Emperors were scared, just like President Nixon. What's a better way to strike at the heart of the Black Panthers than to kill Jimi Hendrix? What's a better way to divert attention from previous prophecies, and keep gnostic and pagan religions alive than to kill Jesus Christ?

If we had seen God, as many people saw Christ, mortals would've fallen.

siSTARindigo

01-09-2006, 07:04 PM

I didnn't read all of this, as the first post was so weird, I am sure someone has already said everything I would have said. But there is one thing I have to say. Jesus may not have existed??? Are you fucking kidding??

Now on the bible thumping scale I am about as far in the negative that you can get. But jesus, my friend, was real. I won't get into how I know this, or you'll just think I am crazy. He was a human, a plan old no walkin' on water human. But he exsited, and he healed people, mirraculously. He wasn't the only one who did these special things,was buddah made up too, and all 20 or however many dali lahmas, people do these things today. And I am not talking about people in crowds "PRAYING TO THE LORD TO TAKE AWAY THIS 10 YEAR OLDS BLINDNESS". I am talking quiet, spiritual people trainning in different healing modalities.

I am done. I don't know what else to say. I started this thread sober, and smoked one while I worte it. But damn! I am an indigo, and for those who know what that is, know that it was imposible to keep my mouth shut.

Eva

MoonStarer420

01-09-2006, 07:16 PM

...he was also black

beachguy in thongs

01-09-2006, 07:17 PM

F L E S H

01-09-2006, 08:08 PM

You know, although Sam Harris is a militant atheist, he finds fundamentalists to be ultimately more logical than mainstream christians, and he makes a good point. Regular Christians are of the sort that say "I like to believe there is a God because it makes more sense that way" or something like that. They choose to believe whatever seems more convenient to them and choose to ignore the rest, because it's not quite palatable. At least fundamentalists have the conviction of their beliefs, and believe the whole goddamn thing.

Moderates, you have to choose what side you're on. Either you believe, or you don't, but you can't pick and choose what you like to believe because some things sound nice, while other things don't sound so good... And that's the hypocrisy Oneironaut is pointing out. Rock on, brother! :thumbsup:

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-09-2006, 09:01 PM

How so? Didn't God already know what it would be like to be a human? Or did God not know everything?yes, god did KNOW what it was like to be human, just like a insectologist "knows" what it's like to be a bug.

god had never EXPERIANCED being a human untill he was christ. the experiance is FAR different than simply knowing, come on, you should know that.

sure, you can KNOW what meditation is, but EXPERIANCING it changes everything.

siSTARindigo

01-09-2006, 09:28 PM

sorry about the 'n' key, but it isn't the only one that sticks. I spilled an energy drink on my keyboard. still works though, sort of :)

CocaCola

01-09-2006, 09:55 PM

I don't even know what to say... "I'm sick of hearing your anti-christian bullshit"?

Ok, it clearly states in the Bible that thou shalt do all the heinous shit that was listed in the first post. That we can all agree on... it's a fact. But now people are saying that maybe Jesus was only following commands from the father (or something to that effect) and that maybe he didn't agree with the murder and such but had to forfill the fathers wishes anyway. Ok, so God then is responsible... now if this is the case, I don't understand how people can worship this dude who contradicts himself all the time in his great big book and likes to kill innocent children. But then there are some who say maybe thread starter shouldn't take the text so literally... but why does everyone else? What if God is just a figurative term for something else? God... it jusr doesn't make any sense!

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-09-2006, 10:37 PM

er once again...

god said that, then when he came down to earth, he saw that he was wrong, and, as jesus, he gave us proof that he did not agree with himself any more, since jesus no longer agreed with god, and if jesus IS god...

well... god had obviously contradicted himself, and when he tried to make up for it, by coming down to earth as christ, he fucked it up, and THIS, this very moment, is the result. yeah, i'd say he fucked up, and we need to try and once again grasp his intentions... rather than being so retardedly absorbed by his contradictions and hyppocrisy.

Polymirize

01-10-2006, 04:38 AM

I think people who give Bibles to children are the real assholes. I mean, this is a book that encourages child murder, genocide, racism, slavery, sexism, homophobia, and other destructive qualities. We really need to recognize this book for the mythological hate literature it is. If that makes me an asshole, then fine, I guess I'm an asshole.

I really think you just like being an asshole.

My parents gave me a copy of Hop on Pop by Dr Suess when I was a child, but that didn't mean I read it literally.

Why do you Always assume literal interpretation? Can't you ease up on the nice, chill christians who just think that there was some spiritually proficient individual during a time period roughly in line with 30CE (AD if you prefer, but you probably won't) who had some good shit to say in terms of how people should treat other people?

I think you need to understand the role myths play in any society, being both a positive and sometimes negative force. But always there. I think it's the people who interpret literally that cause a lot of the problems (personal view). So why would you want to do the same thing?

Polymirize

01-10-2006, 04:41 AM

Christianity breeds hatred, war, intolerance, depreciation of earthly life, and anti-scientific attitudes. I think that is good reason to attempt to falsify it.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind Oneironaut... You can't combat intolerance with more intolerance.

For your consideration...

siSTARindigo

01-10-2006, 05:55 AM

There is a god, I don't care if anyone agrees with me. But jesus was not god anymore than you and I are god, which is to say that he is no better than us. Yet we are all god, being a spark of divine light from God our creator.

And being here on earth we do have what is called free will. Yes there is a plan, and that plan involves every single speck on this earth, including earth itself. But we are "here" for a reason. A place with free will, and obsticles that we are to overcome. The purpose is to learn, and grow, and experience. Cause and effect. The future isn't written in stone, it is just an outline.

From what I understand the world is changing drastically, and quickly. This next year is going to be a crazy one (and I am comparing it to 2005). Almost all news will be either really REALLY good, or really REALLY bad. A lot of people are going to die, a lot will be born. Our new kids won't tolerate lies or deceit. The world is going to change, and if your alive at this time then you are very important. These things will become more and more clear to everyone.

God does exist. And so does jesus. Angels, "aliens", crystals, and *herbs* can help you increase your vibration, reincarnation does exist.

I am sure some with think I am crazy. Some won't. I don't care what you believe, so just please ignore mine if they don't fit with yours.

I think everyone needs to dropped everything everyone has told them, and meditate for as long as it takes, just like Buddah did. Go inside and ask your self what YOUR truth is. And then quiet analizing ancient text. You know deep inside where you came from, go inside and ask. everyone needs to quite looking for outside sources to answer questions.

Eva

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-10-2006, 06:18 AM

you must first anaylize yourself before you will be mentally fit to take any other perspectives into consideration.

meditation is deffenitely a key ingrediant in awakening, not reading the bible or listening to preachers, they are only there to help keep you going, reassurance, not guidance!

you can only guide yourself! allowing others to guide you takes away part of the experiance, the most important part! perhaps even the experiance itself!

CocaCola

01-10-2006, 07:17 AM

Why do you Always assume literal interpretation? Can't you ease up on the nice, chill christians who just think that there was some spiritually proficient individual during a time period roughly in line with 30CE (AD if you prefer, but you probably won't) who had some good shit to say in terms of how people should treat other people?

But the thing is most people take it literally. You can't believe that Oneironaut is actually taking this seriously, can you? He is just pointing out the irony in you're chill christians killing babies. Why are YOU taking things so literally?

Most people don't even know shit about Jesus and his believes and his moral values and whatever, because The Bible is just too hard to understand for most people... so they take it LITERALLY. He DID have good shit to say about how to treat you're fellow person, but it just flys over people's heads. Otherwise, we along with the followers of any other deity, would be getting along. And that's a thumbs up for Jesus... :thumbsup:

You should have known... people are stupid. Thanks J-dawg.

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-10-2006, 07:43 AM

i say we bash only stupid people who post, no going off on rants about what religion isnt being stupid on the forums :thumbsup:

Polymirize

01-10-2006, 08:31 AM

You should have known... people are stupid.

If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?

Either way, I'd probably laugh a little. And that would be wrong of me, but at least I'm honest. Point being however, please don't use other peoples stupidity to justify your own.

And SSW, too easy....

CocaCola

01-10-2006, 08:42 AM

If my friend jumped off a bridge I'd be devastated, man. Why are you asking if I'd follow? I really don't see you're point. And also... I'm trying to justify my stupidity? Was that supposed to offend me? What does that even mean? To justify ones stupidity... is that like to say I'm being stupid for the right reasons? That's actually kind of funny, really.

And I'm tired so I'm really not trying to come off as an ass. I just don't get anything in that post.

I don't even know what to say... "I'm sick of hearing your anti-christian bullshit"?

Ok, it clearly states in the Bible that thou shalt do all the heinous shit that was listed in the first post. That we can all agree on... it's a fact. But now people are saying that maybe Jesus was only following commands from the father (or something to that effect) and that maybe he didn't agree with the murder and such but had to forfill the fathers wishes anyway. Ok, so God then is responsible... now if this is the case, I don't understand how people can worship this dude who contradicts himself all the time in his great big book and likes to kill innocent children. But then there are some who say maybe thread starter shouldn't take the text so literally... but why does everyone else? What if God is just a figurative term for something else? God... it jusr doesn't make any sense!

But the thing is most people take it literally. You can't believe that Oneironaut is actually taking this seriously, can you? He is just pointing out the irony in you're chill christians killing babies. Why are YOU taking things so literally?

Most people don't even know shit about Jesus and his believes and his moral values and whatever, because The Bible is just too hard to understand for most people... so they take it LITERALLY. He DID have good shit to say about how to treat you're fellow person, but it just flys over people's heads. Otherwise, we along with the followers of any other deity, would be getting along. And that's a thumbs up for Jesus... :thumbsup:

You should have known... people are stupid. Thanks J-dawg.

Here are the only two other posts I've made in this thread... I guess you can use them as referance points for you're arguments against me. GIVE IT TO ME!1

beachguy in thongs

01-10-2006, 04:19 PM

My parents gave me a copy of Hop on Pop by Dr Suess when I was a child,

I like the quote as it is. :stoned:

I, really, didn't need to read anymore, afterwards.

Euphoric

01-10-2006, 04:32 PM

I, really, didn't need to read anymore, afterwards.

HAhahaha

Stoner Shadow Wolf

01-10-2006, 06:43 PM

y'all are bein' stooped :D

Vampiero

01-22-2006, 08:08 AM

Mr Greenthumb

01-22-2006, 11:10 AM

I belive realigeon has a lot to do witht he downfall of society. I think it's all just made up. Perhaps God was invented to make the rest of the world feel better about dying. That and it gives them purpose and a reason the live. Blindly fallowing something that raises so many questions in so many people is not for me.

Or I could go witht the crazy most unlikley solution. One Word: Alians.

Shelbay

01-22-2006, 02:09 PM

I believe in God..I believe Jesus Christ died for us. Some people are having fun bashing him and questioning him..blame him for everything that happens in their life so that in itself is saying you acknowledge him.He is a loving & forgiving God.

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 04:46 PM

If you don't think about anything until you see it, or place , HAH HAH HAH

Forget that.

You wouldn't believe that as I was lost, a book slid on my toe from underneath the computer table, and it was this bible.

So, I was thinking of how to explain what I was gonna say (which I've forgotten), so I, in a mocking manner, which is to say that I didn't expect results, I opened up the Bible for direction.

I came directly to Nehemiah. 4:1,2, Sanballat was very angry when he learned that we were rebuilding the wall. He flew into a rage and mocked the Jews, saying in front of his friends and the Samarian army officers, "What does this bunch of poor, feeble Jews think they are doing? Do they think they can build a wall in a day if they offer enough sacrifices? Look at those charred stones they are pulling out of the rubbish and using again!"

Vampiero

01-22-2006, 05:26 PM

i have yet to recieve a response based on facts and logic, instead i have been answered with things like "i believe". Until the christian world can answer such questions like the ones i posed, i dont think that they can be expected to be taken seriously by any free thinking intellectual person.

Now im not saying that Christians are stupid, but what i am saying is that people should try to analyze things from an 'outside the box' perspective instead of listening to everything they are taught by their parents, or else they would become like Prussian Blue (twins that create pop songs praising Hitler and Nazis).

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 05:49 PM

i have yet to recieve a response based on facts and logic,
Because it was too long, I didn't know you were expecting responses based on your "reply".

Oh, yeah, I read it. Maybe, that's where I was getting at, but I got stoned.

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 05:53 PM

Vampiero

01-22-2006, 06:02 PM

still i dont have an descent answer

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 06:28 PM

Well, you asked a couple questions.

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 07:05 PM

Explaining Jesus doesn't explain God. Religion trying to explain God is worship, in a greater form or less. Judaism wasn't "Judaism" when Moses, et al, started writing, or chalking, whatever they did.

To me, the Bible has nothing to do with Judaism.

Vampiero

01-22-2006, 07:30 PM

1. As a response towards christians, Jesus=God according to the idea of the Holy Trinity which is considered as ONE thing (by my count, its 3).

2. Judaism was Judaism before Moses, and the people were known as Jews. Its not like moses invented the religion, u should reread the bible if you think he did.

3. I never claimed that the bible was Judaism, i said (and this is a historical fact) that HALF of the christian bible is the Jewish bible, copied WORD for WORD.

4. Science is based on the idea that theories are accepted until proven wrong....well i have asked several questions about christianity that no one is able to answer with any logical response. Now i dont mean to target anyone personally or anything, and i realize that my post sounds a bit aggressive (which is not my intention but i dont know how to reword it differently) but you cannot expect me to take religion seriously if it does not answer some questions that i have.

beachguy in thongs

01-22-2006, 08:29 PM

Oh, well, vampiero. The only reason why I have a Bible is because my temp. agency sent me to C.B.N. to do data entry, for a couple months, and they gave all the temp's Bibles when they didn't need us, anymore. Plus, my supervisor gave me one when she gave me a ride home, one time, but I think I left that one in my CRX, and then sold it.

I was confirmed catholic up in Amsterdam, NY and the first time I ever opened a Bible was in my twenties in Virginia.

siSTARindigo

01-27-2006, 08:53 PM

Vampiero:

"religion" is a business. Spirituality is faith based, and there don't have to be facts. How bought, I believe in GOD, because I know him. I can't prove it to you, and I don't care if you beilieve me.

I don't care what you believe either, I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I can talk about it rationally, but to ask for facts isn't totally fair. So don't expect them.

This is funny kind of, you are like the opposite of the jehovahs, knocking on our virtual doors, trying to say "see, looky here!!!! Your wrong, god doesn't exsit!" Don't believe, just shut up and quit buggin about it.

Eva

Also, I don't live on a pot message board, so excuse me if it takes a few days for me to answer a question you have posed.

Vampiero

01-28-2006, 05:31 AM

why isn't asking for facts fair, i think giving a reasonable explation is quite appropriate, most people i think would agree.

and the reason i dont 'shut up' about it is because i enjoy debating, and this is a fair debate. It is just a simple challenge, can someone give any reasonable explation for the questions i have.

Euphoric

01-28-2006, 05:36 AM

-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Thats because
1. The church is a corrupted system of population control/evil corporate buisness
2. not even a pope can seriously abide by the impossible christian morals

siSTARindigo

01-28-2006, 05:41 AM

Post your exact questions and I'd be most happy to oblige :) Just be warned that reasonable explainations don't always include facts.

And you weren't debating, you were prodding. If people ignore your post that doesn't mean "your right and you win" like it did when you were 5. It means they simply didn't find anything you had to say worth responding too :)

Eva

siSTARindigo

01-28-2006, 05:47 AM

Thats because
1. The church is a corrupted system of population control/evil corporate buisness
2. not even a pope can seriously abide by the impossible christian morals

As I recall the catholic priests were molesting a bunch of little boys. So I am sure they were also tampering with GOD word while they were at it. Religion doesn't always include GOD. Sometimes it is about making money off of GOD. Just like sometimes the car salesman is whoever he has to be to make that sale, footballer, golfer, Rancher. There are 2 ends to every spectrum, good and bad, positive and negative.

The idea of a GOD has been around since the beginning of time, LONG before Jesus, and the bible. GOD should not be doubted just because of all the human corruption.

Anyways, I am agreeing with you, and then ranting, in case it didn't sound like it :)

Eva

siSTARindigo

01-28-2006, 07:06 AM

well the way i see it is that arguing over the existance of god is difficult, and the only way to do it is through logic.

Now i ask this:
-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.
-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink
-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)
-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Personally i believe there are too many inconcistancies throughout history to prove the existance of a GOD, Robespierre himself understood that 'religion is the opium of the masses' (-Marx) and he tried to replace it by creating the 'cult of reason' hoping that people might educate themselves and use logic instead of listening to what corrupt religious officials comand them to do.........did i mention the fact that it is possible to buy ones way into heaven by donating substantial amounts of money to the church to be forgiven for all our sins.

Truthfully, i dispise the christian church for taking away more than 500 years of potential progess in human history, instead, we had the Middle Age otherwise known as the Dark Ages.

OKay, so I found the questions.

-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.

So Jesus loved and accepted everyone. He knew that there was a light of god in them, no matter how small the flame. And?? I don't really get the question.

-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink

Yes, and the book of Enoch, and the most recently found writing from Mary Mangdalene (I dont' spell check because I don't want to so expect errors). GOD existing has nothing to do with this, the Roman Catholic Church did it. They began so long ago, they have build such an empire, and lies have been passed on from generation to generation. Such as the importance of the feminine aspect of GOD. Polarity is science. GOD is not male or female, GOD is not human. Therefore there doesn't have to be a sex. While we are talking about books excluded from the bible, we can discuss the lost teachings of Jesus in general.

-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)

Don't get the question, I haven't the slightest clue about the Jewish religion or ethnicity. I know there are both, and they aren't always the same. And I know they have Barmitzvas.

-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Yeah, and their priest has to be celebate. But they can molest little boys. But again, this all goes back to humans, and greed, and control, and business. NONE of that is GOD.

My debate with you is your statment that the exsistance of GOD is a difficult subject, and needs logic. But GOD existing has nothing to do with the corruption of humans. I did read your profile, I now know your age, and your still young and learning.

You know gut instinct, intuition, a "feeling". Forget the fact that you are jewish, and forget every other thing you have ever been told about GOD, Jesus, the bible, or any of that. Ask your soul if god exists, and try not to let your body interrupt what your soul is craving to say to you.

Eva

Vampiero

01-28-2006, 10:34 PM

i trully dont think that god exists......before socrates there were several greek philosophers (whose name i dont remember and are too hard to spell lol) who thought that everything was made out of the four elements, water, wind, fire, earth......today we understand the concept of atoms and such......so isn't GOD just another way of explaining things that happen around us which until now were unexplainable.

For example: i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.

siSTARindigo

01-29-2006, 05:55 AM

[QUOTE= i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.[/QUOTE]

I think your biggest misconception in this whole debate is the fact that you are basing all your info off text book religion. Look at the bible like a book BASED on the true story. Could it all be as simple as a little handbook for life straight from god? There is a lot more to it than that. A Miricle can be many more things than just simply GOD, and praying. We do have a timeline, that we are in charge of, and we also have free will. This free will is where karma comes in. Sometimes things happen that just weren't suppose to happen, and "whoever" intervines. There is a dark side, and a light side. You might be on the light side and not even know it. I think the dark always know they are dark.

We get caught up in being humans, what about our soul? Say there is no GOD, then what is that thing that leaves your body at some point, all ages included, and you are then dead. There is the physical body, and the energy body. Whatever this invisible piece of you is has to go somewhere. And why wouldn't there be a hiarchy to wherever we do go? A hiarchy doesn't have to mean power, it is just a system, those who do this, and those who do that.

I have some questions for you, fair?

Do you believe in life on any other planet than earth? Why?
Do you believe in reincarnation? Why?
Do you believe in "Spirits" or "ghosts"? Why?
Do you believe there is more dimensions than the 3D? please explain....
What do you believe will happen to you when you die?

Each one of us is a piece of GOD, a creation. We have power over our own lives.

Eva

Polymirize

01-29-2006, 06:25 AM

i trully dont think that god exists......before socrates there were several greek philosophers (whose name i dont remember and are too hard to spell lol) who thought that everything was made out of the four elements, water, wind, fire, earth......today we understand the concept of atoms and such......so isn't GOD just another way of explaining things that happen around us which until now were unexplainable.

I think you're misrepresenting the pre-socratics there. Before Socrates the elements were largely accepted but the debate was over what was the most fundamental. Thales concluded that everything was water. Heraclitus thought that which is most essential is the logos, "the word", the primordial fire within... The thing to realise is the Pre-socratics weren't trying to say that everything is just water persay, as much as to say the element of the divine in nature resided there.
Today we have our atoms and still don't understand virtually anything about the universe they are scattered into...
I think "god" or "the divine" or "the sacred" is just a way of refering to that which we understand, but could never explain.

siSTARindigo

01-29-2006, 06:47 PM

I think that is the biggest problem amongst the spiritual "debate". We are just humans. We can never understand, much less explain GOD. We use terms like He/She. That is all a HUMAN thing. Feminine and masculane exist, don't get me wrong, but we all have BOTH inside. As does GOD, but no body.

This Socrates thing is a perfect example of the ego, which your soul doesn't have. Ego is a human thing. I am not picking on Vampiero when I say that either. He is 16, yet he seems to think he has figured it out, and is willing to debate about it. That is fine, and all. But my friend, you only know the tip of the ice burg. Just as you knew PART of the Socrates thing. Not very many humans actually KNOW anything, ever. That is where faith comes in, and any faith is fine as long as it makes you happy, instead of scared like you damed to hell for lusting.

When we return home, where our spirit was before this body, and after this body, then we will remember and KNOW. Until then go ahead and be stead fast in the fact that GOD doesn't exist. I just think it is ignorant to be stead fast in anything these days. Scientists don't even stick with their own ideas. One day this is bad for you the next it cures cancer.

Just remember, every person and every place, and every event had something secret. Something the general public didn't know. These secrets have leaked over the years proving that you just never ever KNOW anything.

(BEWARE! this next paragraph is VERY sptupid)
Did you know, that some people are even saying that Nick and Jessica, of the Newlyweds, were never even a REAL couple? Supposedly Joe Simpson new Jessicas career was crashing, devised a long plan that I won't bore everyone with here. He wanted Nick Carter to be the Nick in Jessicas life, but Carter said no way. Anyways, It came down to one of the 98 degrees band members because they were managed by the same people (At that time). Anyways, supposedly Nick Lachey was picked because his voice sounded the best out of the group with Jesssica.

It is a very long story and VERY detailed. It just goes to show you how far things are taken. Think about how far back, and deep seated the current religious system is. MOST religions today were branched off the roman catholics, and then off of whatever they became. But the Roman Catholics are the ones who destroyed a lot of ancient writings. I would much rather read what an ancient has to say than the congregation that made woman enter the door on the side because they weren't as good as men. And the stake burning, cause someone is a witch. Now the Mayans, they knew some shit!

Eva

Vampiero

01-29-2006, 09:47 PM

-u understand the point u guys are making, and if ur beliefs are that GOD isn't a guy in a grey beard (for a lack of a better stereotype) but just THE SYSTEM that more or less makes up what we see (a Spinozian kinda view) then i can fully understand that. But then i dont understand why people route their lives around it, waste time in church, or do otherthings that arn't going to have an effect, especially with all these fanatics, what im arguing against is mostly the Churchs and their versions of GOD.

-what i meant by the pre-socratics part is different, there are 3 different philosophers, all of their names are like Xanothrop..... and things like that, they start with X's and they believed in the four elements.

-I dont believe in spirits or ghosts or reincarnation, i think that when i die nothing too special will happen, i'm have more of a scientific mindset i must say. I do think there are more dimensions than 3, perhaps time is the fourth as Einstein claimed, but im not sure about the string theory just because i have yet to really look into it yet. And i do believe life on other planets is possible although unlickely.

Polymirize

01-29-2006, 10:12 PM

But then i dont understand why people route their lives around it, waste time in church, or do otherthings that arn't going to have an effect, especially with all these fanatics, what im arguing against is mostly the Churchs and their versions of GOD.

...but im not sure about the string theory just because i have yet to really look into it yet. And i do believe life on other planets is possible although unlickely.

First off, Spinoza? We're far beyond the modern movement now, can't we let rationalism die already?
I think it's very easy to blame religion for a lot of societies problems. And in a lot of cases there might be something to it. But I think the far greater problem, that affects both secular and religious people, is apathy. because, as any student of philosophy should know, the negation of god does not allow for the negation of the ethical.

Also, I was curious about your comment concerning other planets. If you have a concept even approaching the size of the universe, and if life is not itself divinely inspired, shouldn't it be everywhere else too? Why do you find it unlikely? What makes us so special?

siSTARindigo

01-30-2006, 12:03 AM

Question:I asked what you do believe happens, you said nothing to special. I didn't say it had to be special, just what exactly do you think happens? Here is a better way of putting it, Is there an after life for you? What is it?

Questions: You do believe in more than one dimension, what do you believe the other 3 we don't reside in are like? And you don't believe in "aliens", but what about residents of these other dimensions you believe to exist, like us in the 3rd? Not to mention the fact that we have no clue, as humans, if there are other galexies. We have not even begun to be able to present facts about life on other planets,and there is no way of knowing any facts as to wether or not they have residents, or even the likelyhood of any of it. We have been to what 2 planets? Of how many? Yet you have still formed an uneducated "opinion" about it.

That is all I am trying to get across to you. You have all these ideas that have been put into your head from some source. Get rid of all of it, start over. I am not telling you to believe me. I am telling you to take all your preconcived notions, anything your parents, teachers of friends told you, and get rid of it. It is a very hard thing to do, and will come more with age.

Open up your mind and learn. That is all :)

Eva

siSTARindigo

01-30-2006, 12:18 AM

siSTARindigo

01-30-2006, 12:23 AM

"Science works from the outside in, spirituality from the inside out." -Polymirize (from another thread)

I couldn't resist :)

Vampiero

01-30-2006, 03:11 AM

siSTARindigo

01-30-2006, 03:55 AM

Mission accomplished :)

Eva

Polymirize

01-30-2006, 06:20 AM

Polymerize: i was never arguing the end of the 'ethical'. Personally my favorite aspects of philosophy are morals and ethics. But i was just inspiering a debate over the existence of GOD, and not the unexplainable. On another note, since the universe is so big, there is a large possibility that 'life' might exist but under different conditions that what we consider to be life.

Excellent points. And I'll ask you in advance for your forgiveness for answering them only with more questions.
First off, what do you think it means to be ethical? It seems like there's a lot of bagging on religion for not providing better ethics. But the same thing can be said of secular systems. "how can god allow such and such" people may ask. Let's seperate the divine from the systems which attempt to contain it shall we? Make no mistake, the divine is the unexplainable. The uncomprehensible. Infinite. The divine is everywhere. And so any attempt to find it in a singular form of thought is bound to fail. I've read a great deal of religious texts, and there's always something to it, some good ideas for how to treat our fellow human beings. And they're usually always lacking in other respects. Something, some possible perspective just isn't considered.

What is ethics? What is the goal of ethics? Where do they come from?

And in regards to life on other planets, what is life? what is existance?

siSTARindigo

01-30-2006, 06:13 PM

I stole this off another thread again. It was all to fitting for the conversation. I can't remember the name of the poster, and I can't go back and look either, so SORRY for no kudos! Seriously, this was a great article.

NY Times 1/22/06

The Nonbeliever

Questions for Daniel C. Dennett about his book Breaking the Spell : Religion as a Natural Phenomenon

The philosopher and author talks about why he feels sure there is no God, how a scientific study can be applied to religion and what it means to be a "Darwinian fundamentalist".

Q: How could you, as a longtime professor of philosophy at Tufts University, write a book that promotes the idea that religious devotion is a function of biology? Why would you hold a scientist's microscope to something as intangible as belief? I don't know about you, but I find St. Paul's and St. Peter's pretty physical.

But your new book, "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon," is not about cathedrals. It's about religious belief, which cannot be dissected in a lab as if it were a disease. That itself is a scientific claim, and I think it is false. Belief can be explained in much the way that cancer can. I think the time has come to shed our taboo that says, "Oh, let's just tiptoe by this, we don't have to study this." People think they know a lot about religion. But they don't know.

So what can you tell us about God? Certainly the idea of a God that can answer prayers and whom you can talk to, and who intervenes in the world - that's a hopeless idea. There is no such thing.

Yet faith, by definition, means believing in something whose existence cannot be proved scientifically. If we knew for sure that God existed, it would not require a leap of faith to believe in him. Isn't it interesting that you want to take that leap? Why do you want to take that leap? Why does our craving for God persist? It may be that we need it for something. It may be that we don't need it, and it is left over from something that we used to be. There are lots of biological possibilities.

Didn't religion spring up in its earliest forms in connection with the weather, the desire to make sense of rain and lightning? We have a built-in, very potent hair-trigger tendency to find agency in things that are not agents, like snow falling off the roof.

There was so much infant mortality in the past, which must have played a large role in encouraging people to believe in an afterlife. When a person dies, we can't just turn that off. We go on thinking about that person as if that person were still alive. Our inability to turn off our people-seer and our people-hearer naturally turns into our hallucinations of ghosts, our sense that they are still with us.

But they are still with us, through the process of memory. These aren't just memories.

I take it you do not subscribe to the idea of an everlasting soul, which is part of almost every religion. Ugh. I certainly don't believe in the soul as an enduring entity. Our brains are made of neurons, and nothing else. Nerve cells are very complicated mechanical systems. You take enough of those, and you put them together, and you get a soul.

That strikes me as a very reductive and uninteresting approach to religious feeling. Love can be studied scientifically, too.

But what's the point of that? Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to spend your time and research money looking for a cure for AIDS? How about if we study hatred and fear? Don't you think that would be worthwhile?

Traditionally, evolutionary biologists like Stephen Jay Gould insisted on keeping a separation between hard science and less knowable realms like religion. He was the evolutionist laureate of the U.S., and everybody got their Darwin from Steve. The trouble was he gave a rather biased view of evolution. He called me a Darwinian fundamentalist.

Which I imagine was his idea of a put-down, since he thought evolutionists should not apply their theories to religion. Churches make a great show about the creed, but they don't really care. A lot of the evangelicals don't really care what you believe as long as you say the right thing and do the right thing and put a lot of money in the collection box.

I take it you are not a churchgoer. No, not really. Sometimes I go to church for the music.

Yes, the church gave us Bach, in addition to some fairly spectacular architecture and painting. Churches have given us great treasures. Whether that pays for the harm they have done is another matter.
DEBORAH SOLOMON

mont974x4

01-30-2006, 09:20 PM

Very intersting discussion folks. I always like discussing hard issues. lol Maybe I'm a glutten for punishment.

First religion is bad. Religious people crucified Jesus. Religious people fought the crusades. Religious people killed our friends on 9/11.

What true Christianity is, is a relationship with God. This is a very personal thing and some things people argue about are just doctrinal issues that don't really matter to much so long as the core truth is followed. (For example whether a Christian can drink alcohol or not).

Now I have said I really enjoy these discussions and I get into them a lot. In order to have a good discussion I think we need to keep a few things in mind. We can not always tell through a message board if someone is being serious or joking, so give folks the benfiet of the doubt until proven otherwise.

The Bible has more books and historical manuscripts that back it up proving it to be accurate than any other book ever written. I'm talking about writings from people outside the faith and Greek and Roman government officials.

Also, we need to be careful how we use the text. I can pick it apart and get it to say whatever I want. Always look at context. For example look at the first post in this thread. Yes, God called for some people to be completely whiped out. Why? There are two things that God will not stand for and that is dishonoring Him and dishonoring His people. Do you think maybe there's a reason why despite centuries of violence no nation has been able to destroy the Jewish people?

The flood didn't happen just because God was angry at a few people. It was the entire population except for Noah and his family that had turned away from God and was living in sin.

The Bible does not say sex is bad. In fact, sex is designed by God. It was people that perverted it.

Also, handle the text properly in terms of Old and New Testament. The Law, which was given to Moses and taught the people is Old Testament and people added to that. This was wrong. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Under the Law there was the annual sacrifice for the atonement of the sins of the people. Jesus was the final sacrifice. We are no longer under the Law. He is now our doorway to God. He said no man comes to the Father except through Him. We no longer need to get wrapped up trying to live under the Law and other religious mechanical actions. Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

MudFu

01-31-2006, 12:17 AM

I've been gone for a few months and when I drop back in the first topic I open is this xD. Its always nice to know that no matter how long I leave, whenever I come back there is always a "Christians Are Evil" kinda topic. Lol. How come no one ever seems to insult other religions. You guys make it seem as thou it is the only Religion in this world. :) Either you people are feeling extrem hate for them or you really must love them to the point you deny it. Lol oh my, not that I mind but I always found it funny with this forum. So how about them Hindus...

Also, Sex is any way is not perverted. We just call it kinky now. Stuff like rape or something where you force intercourse upon someone is not perverted its just sick and wrong. A horrible act. I also do not consider it sex because it is more force which makes me call it volience (sp?). But that is a form of sex, sex in its purity is not perverted.

I realize that can be taken so wrong...I can't explain it very well but I have it in my mind. Next time i'm stoned I'll explain.

Polymirize

01-31-2006, 03:47 AM

Monty and Muddy, glad you've decided to join the conversation, but if you'll read the last page of posts or so, I think we're moving off the topic of religion persay and especially off the focus on christianity.

You're both arguing syntax and ignoring our semantics...

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 03:47 AM

Sex used to be a very sacred thing. Women were very important, and special because they had the power to create life. Not of course without men. Both are equal, but woman can grow a life, and then naturally make food for them when they are born.

Sex is a need, it is about feeling wanted, and loved, and getting the ultimate orgasm from it. It is also to reproduce.

I did find it funny how the really newby up a post was saying we can't take the bible literally, yet he was taking the bible literally. Everybody but Noahs family died when he built the ark my ass! don't get me wrong, a lot of people died. We were a lot less populated back then. It was the same thing as now. We aren't taking care of ourselves, we were greedy, and envious, and hateful, and fearful. We are coming to a breaking point now, natural disasters are getting worse. Violence amangs men is getting worse...think about it. Man is more greedy than ever now, all the oil drilling, and refining. Everyone has to have a SUV. We are destroying our earth, and she isn't happy about it. If we continue, she will just get more pissed off.

I think the biggest problem in this whole discussion is all the labeling that happens. People don't mean to do it, it is a way of seperating things and being able to identify them. But who really cares what name you've given your creator. Catholics get a way bad rap. They are a business. My hubby's whole family is WAY catholic. He was confirmed and everything. But he is not a catholic, he is spiritual. He believes in reincarnation, catholics don't. Catholics have a lot of rules. GOD needs more credit than that. Do you think you have to go to a church every sunday or else god will be mad. god doesn't care where you go to be thankful to him, or just to cry too. But he can't intervien, what about free will? I got married in the catholic church, we had to go to 6 months of counseling and schooling on the institute of marriage. Then we both had to take surveys of like 180 questions. Things like do you have an STD? WTF! And when I told him no he said "are you sure?". Fucker.

But about Noah's ark, not everyone could have possibly died but those in that boat. Was there not life in the water during that time. I doubt a mear flood would do much but given them more swimming room :)

Eva

MoonStarer420

01-31-2006, 04:34 AM

Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

I don't see a difference in what your talking about. Both religion and a relationship with "him" require faith and It just seems like another organization of people worshiping the same God.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 04:38 AM

First religion is bad. Religious people crucified Jesus. Religious people fought the crusades. Religious people killed our friends on 9/11.

Religion is a business. Spirituality has been tarnished by the label of religion. They are not the same thing.

What true Christianity is, is a relationship with God.[QUOTE]

Wrong again, that would be the description of spirituality.

[QUOTE=mont974x4]This is a very personal thing and some things people argue about are just doctrinal issues that don't really matter to much so long as the core truth is followed. (For example whether a Christian can drink alcohol or not).

Those dumass stipulations are the reason it is not of god. god just wants us to be good, love one another, and have self control. He also wants us to experience, and learn, and grow.

Now I have said I really enjoy these discussions and I get into them a lot. In order to have a good discussion I think we need to keep a few things in mind. We can not always tell through a message board if someone is being serious or joking, so give folks the benfiet of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Keeping that in mind, I will forwarn you that I may at times come across as harsh. But that is because I am being honest to the best of my ability, and it may seem harsh because it is blunt.

The Bible has more books and historical manuscripts that back it up proving it to be accurate than any other book ever written. I'm talking about writings from people outside the faith and Greek and Roman government officials.

Of course the bible is "special". And I do believe a lot of it happend. But I also believe it to be a very vague source of information in this time. Due to all the editing, and versions. It is more like a book BASED on a true story.

Also, we need to be careful how we use the text. I can pick it apart and get it to say whatever I want. Always look at context. For example look at the first post in this thread. Yes, God called for some people to be completely whiped out. Why? There are two things that God will not stand for and that is dishonoring Him and dishonoring His people. Do you think maybe there's a reason why despite centuries of violence no nation has been able to destroy the Jewish people?

The flood didn't happen just because God was angry at a few people. It was the entire population except for Noah and his family that had turned away from God and was living in sin.

I could poke wholes in this stuff all day. But, are we suposed to take the bible literally or not. because you said to be careful how you use the text, yet you actually believe that everyone but Noah, his family, and 2 of every animal survived this flood, because everyone else was living in sin.

For one thing god doesn't get angry. Give him more creadit than to carry such a low vibration as anger. And the whole world but those on the ark didn't die. It is a big world and they barely knew if it was round or not. How the hell would this be KNOWN for a FACT that they were the only ones to exist. All the dinos were long gone too, yet there are reptiles that are actually dated to that era.

Also, handle the text properly in terms of Old and New Testament. The Law, which was given to Moses and taught the people is Old Testament and people added to that. This was wrong. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Under the Law there was the annual sacrifice for the atonement of the sins of the people. Jesus was the final sacrifice. We are no longer under the Law. He is now our doorway to God. He said no man comes to the Father except through Him. We no longer need to get wrapped up trying to live under the Law and other religious mechanical actions. Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

Again, a huge contracticion in the same paragraph. Handle the text properly, yet you hold to the christian belief that jesus was a sacrafice for our sins. How bout, jesus was a seed. He planted something, and went through huge sacrafices of his own, to plant spirituality firmly in everyones mind forever. It is a christian misconception that only through Jesus can we find god. Again, give god more credit.

Eva

PS That one quote is screwed up and can't fix it, so I tried :)

streettrash

01-31-2006, 07:14 AM

Not to mention the fact that we have no clue, as humans, if there are other galexies. We have not even begun to be able to present facts about life on other planets,and there is no way of knowing any facts as to wether or not they have residents, or even the likelyhood of any of it. We have been to what 2 planets? Of how many? Yet you have still formed an uneducated "opinion" about it.

I have to respectfully say that you're 100 percent wrong. The field of scientific study you're talking about here is astrobiology. We're about as sure as shit that there are other galaxies out there (You can see them with even a weak telescope). Even ignoring other galaxies, the Milky Way has TRILLIONS of stars, planets are, to the best of our knowledge, quite common (The big debate is how many of them are gas giants, which are not likely to have life). You've obviously never heard of the Drake Equation, which is our way of knowing the likelyhood of alien civilizations.

Also, we found chemical reactions that "imitate life" outside of our own planet. life is loosely defined, but under any definition these reactions are interesting because they recreate conditions that many people speculate may have caused life on our own planet.

It's a young field of science and nothing is really "for sure" (as a scientist you should know, it never is) but to say we have no idea is just a bit ignorant.

MoonStarer420

01-31-2006, 07:22 AM

We're about as sure as shit that there are other galaxies out there...

Oops :stoned: . I should have been all over that one, thanks for catching it.

Polymirize

01-31-2006, 09:38 AM

Oops :stoned: . I should have been all over that one, thanks for catching it.

What are you? The thought-police? :dance:

MoonStarer420

01-31-2006, 02:07 PM

What are you? The thought-police? :dance:

That thought is illegal!!! I'm sending the pigs!

Nah, i just try to stay on top of misconseptions about astronomy and our Universe. Atleast on things I do know.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 03:16 PM

[QUOTE=streettrash]I have to respectfully say that you're 100 percent wrong. [QUOTE]

I will graciously admit that I am not a person who would actual know. You sound educated on the subject. But I would like to point out that I was fighting for the fact of existance, rather than against it.

I very much believe that there is other life out there. And they are just to smart to be found. They know what we would do to them.

Anyway, always love to hear something scientific backing up my beliefs. So thanks :)

Eva

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 03:18 PM

I don't know what my problem is with the quotes.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 03:32 PM

It's a young field of science and nothing is really "for sure" (as a scientist you should know, it never is) but to say we have no idea is just a bit ignorant.

I don't think you read this whole thing. And my comments weren't ignorant, because although you may have facts, we don't (by me I mean the general public), about other life anyways.

But again, In the post you quoted, I was basically saying that the persons opinion I was responding to was ignorant due to the stead fastedness of his uneducated opinion that it was possible but unlikely that other life existed. I am not stead fast in anything, and am always open to education from those educated about a subject, such as yourself. That is the opposite of ignorance.

I don't appreciate being called ignorant when you obviously haven't read all of my posts in this. Which there are about 20 of them.

Eva

justinsane

01-31-2006, 03:53 PM

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 04:13 PM

i just figured id throw in a post to this huge thread, that im not even gonna begin to read. - i think anytime anyone posts a thread about "God" or anything of the sorts, theyre just playing with fire, because no one on this board has the same beliefs.

we're all VERY open minded and opinionated.

we're all outside the box.

It is okay to have a mature discussion, even as open minded individuals. It is just important not to get into an "I win" situation. You have to be adult (even if you aren't one), and agree to disagree if you have to. Having a power struggle with anyone over anything is pointless. If it isn't a win-win situation where at least one of you walks away from it with something new, then it isn't worth it.

Eva

mont974x4

01-31-2006, 05:47 PM

Actually it is not a contradiction. Jesus did sacrifice Himself for us. His sacrifice fullfilled the Law that was given to Moses.

Sorry, but God does get angry. The Bible tells us that. Anger is not a sin. What makes us angry and how we react ot it is where sin comes in.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 06:40 PM

Don't you realize that the way god communicated with people in the time of moses was way different than now?

And this is one of those times where I will just agree to disagree. You are obviously one of those people who we have been talking about in this thread who is stead fast in your bible manual, we are damned to hell if we sin believing kind of person.

I really don't care to get into all of it all over again.

But seriously, whatever makes you happy. If living in fear of your angry god makes your life better, than that is all that matters. The worse thing that can happen is you will be right, or pleasanly suprised by a loving prescence that couldn't never posses such a low vibration. That, by the way is science. You feel bad when you are feeling low vibrations like anger jealousy, judgment. You feel good when you are joyous, and in love. Negative, Positive. I think it is way to human to really believe that god get MAD at you. I think if that were possible, we wouldn't exist. You think Noah's people were pissing off god? What do you think Bush, al-quida, and everyone else who claims to be a god loving person, yet hides horrible skelotons in a closet under the pretense OF religion. Which, by the way, is what your are talking about. I will repeat myself this one more time, for you :)

Religion is a business, spirituality about God. Spiritual people aren't afraid of god damning us to hell. We take responsability for our own lives and actions and believe that these things come back to us, good or bad. I believe god will let you ride it out, be bad. And reap what you sow. After all you learn from experience, not punishment.

Eva

mont974x4

01-31-2006, 08:33 PM

If you really think God is out to damn people and smite everyone and I live in fear etc. then you have no idea.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 08:45 PM

If your going to quote me then use the quote button. I didn't say god is out to damn people. I said YOU believe that god get's mad at people and does things like the flood to kill off everyone because they were sinners.

I was pretty clear that damning people is the last thing my god is interested in.

mont974x4

01-31-2006, 09:32 PM

LOL ok I'm not going to argue symantics. My God is a loving and just God.

Polymirize

01-31-2006, 09:38 PM

LOL ok I'm not going to argue symantics. My God is a loving and just God.

For your information, it's spelled "semantics". Apparently when you're busted by the thought police you become one of them... how horrifying
:dance:

mont974x4

01-31-2006, 09:54 PM

lol dammit I must have been thinking about updating my anti-virus while typing that post.

beachguy in thongs

01-31-2006, 10:00 PM

I'm not gonna argue synonyms.

siSTARindigo

01-31-2006, 10:08 PM

LOL ok I'm not going to argue symantics. My God is a loving and just God.

Not arguing, I just don't like being misquoted by a really newbie who just joined the conversation. I don't care what you believe, as long as it makes you happy, I think I said that too. Tired of repeating myself.........

mont974x4

01-31-2006, 10:25 PM

I didn't mean to misquote you, just misunderstood your point. LOL Besides you missed my point too. Such is life on a messageboard.

niles007

01-31-2006, 11:29 PM

god made us so he can kill who he wants

the lord giveth the lord taketh away blessed be the name of the LORD

Actually....man invented God. God had nothing to do with his being born.

Polymirize

02-01-2006, 05:37 AM

"What then, is the absurd? The absurd is that the eternal truth has come into existence in time, that God has come into existence, has been born, has grown up, etc., has come into existence exactly as an individual human being, indistinguishable from any other human being..."

--Kierkegaarde

Thoughts?

"I reject all forms of authority, except for the messageboard. Hallowed be the messageboard!"
:dance:

F L E S H

02-01-2006, 04:30 PM

I've stated this many times over them months I've been here, and I have to repeat it...

Humanity is stuck, and we will never progress beyond our current situationuntil more and more people realize what God and religion really are, bullshit. But more than that, they are one of many means of control that authorities have, and have had, over us for the past 2,000 years. An authority figure can make a certain number of people do anything based on religious obligation.

I'm sorry siSTAR, but agreeing to disagree is not the way out of this conundrum. And you can't change the setting by calling it "spirituality" rather than "religion". Yes, I'm am a militant atheist who is out to put an end to ignorance, thoughtlessness, irrationality, and superstition. The first two things that must leave people's brains for good are 1) God does NOT exist and 2) There is NO life after death. We must start with those two and worl our way up from there.

Also, to say things that your God is different than other people's is a little strange. You either believe in God or you don't. If you are a Christian, you believe in the Christian God. If you're muslim, you believe in Allah, etc. etc. You can't pick and choose what concepts you like to believe in and what others you think should be thrown out. That says to me that there are indeed some parts of religion which you think are unreasonable, but you're afraid to go all the way. There's nothing to be afraid of, unless you're scared of true freedom of thought. In many ways, you and people who think like you are even more unreasonable than fundamentalists, because at least they believe in the whole shabang, without picking and choosing which elements they do and do not like.

But unfortunately, I'm aware that the end of religion won't happen in the next few years, probably not even in my lifetime. In fact, I'm seeing the opposite. Where 20 years ago it was normal for Chruch matters and State matters to be completely separate, today the line is blurred. "One nation under God" is not in the original Pledge of Allegiance, it was added in about 50 years ago.

Nonetheless, religion must and will disappear, at least I truly hope so, or the world and all its peoples will decay into barbarism once again.

streettrash

02-01-2006, 05:08 PM

I don't think you read this whole thing. And my comments weren't ignorant, because although you may have facts, we don't (by me I mean the general public), about other life anyways.

But again, In the post you quoted, I was basically saying that the persons opinion I was responding to was ignorant due to the stead fastedness of his uneducated opinion that it was possible but unlikely that other life existed. I am not stead fast in anything, and am always open to education from those educated about a subject, such as yourself. That is the opposite of ignorance.

I don't appreciate being called ignorant when you obviously haven't read all of my posts in this. Which there are about 20 of them.

Eva
Well, I haven't read all your posts, but I really don't see what the problem with calling you ignorant is. Ignorant means you're lacking in education or knowledge. I believe you said yourself that you ARE lacking in education and knowledge, sooooo where's the problem? The word ignorant implies nothing about how open you are to education or your intentions, only how much education you currently have on a given subject (In this case, Astrobiology).

If you prefer I can sugar coat it and call you "informationally-challenged".

If it makes you feel any better, I first decided to study Astrobiology while I was stoned watching the Sci Fi channel.

siSTARindigo

02-01-2006, 06:49 PM

I copied the below from this link :http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ignorant if anybody really cares.

But that is fine if you want to consider us (as in the general public like I stated before) ignorant because of the fact we, for the most part have no knowlege of this subject. But don't put me in that catagory by myself. There wouldn't have been a show about it if it was common knowlege. I am sure you are also ignorant, in one matter or another.

Definition #2 states what I was in fact discussin. People acting igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ly
saying all these TRUTHS with nothing to back it up. My only objective was for people to be open minded and be able to admit things outside THEIR own ideas are possible.

And don't worry about making me feel better hun, cause I don't feel bad. My life is amazing right now, and this? you? he he he..........

Eva
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ly adverb
- igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ness noun

siSTARindigo

02-01-2006, 07:11 PM

I'm sorry siSTAR, but agreeing to disagree is not the way out of this conundrum.

Call this "conundrum" what you want. Unlike you I haven't made it my mission in life to tell everyone they are wrong.

And you can't change the setting by calling it "spirituality" rather than "religion". Yes, I'm am a militant atheist who is out to put an end to ignorance, thoughtlessness, irrationality, and superstition.

You are neither spiritual OR religious, so wouldn't you be speaking igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ly right now? (2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED- igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ly adverb- igÂ·noÂ·rantÂ·ness noun http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ignorant)

The first two things that must leave people's brains for good are 1) God does NOT exist and 2) There is NO life after death. We must start with those two and worl our way up from there.

You have figured it out, after all these years, and all these SCIENTISTS. You know what we need to do to save ourselves. Wowo, I really must ask you this then, would you like a biscut?

Also, to say things that your God is different than other people's is a little strange. You either believe in God or you don't. If you are a Christian, you believe in the Christian God. If you're muslim, you believe in Allah, etc. etc. You can't pick and choose what concepts you like to believe in and what others you think should be thrown out.

What if you are none of them? And why can't I pick and choose what resonates with me? Each religion did so, starting their specific religion. You need to quite trying to be the spiritual cop, and leave people be. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't believe?

That says to me that there are indeed some parts of religion which you think are unreasonable, but you're afraid to go all the way.

Yup, religion is crap, I think I said that. Just because I can't answer everyones questions doesn't mean I have any. It just means that I don't want step on other peoples toes when it comes to their god. I wouldn't want to be like you, I prefer to live and let live. Discussing something is fine, but who are you to come in here and TELL people things.

But unfortunately, I'm aware that the end of religion won't happen in the next few years, probably not even in my lifetime. In fact, I'm seeing the opposite.

That is because religion is turning into spirituality. People are starting to realize that most of the beliefs are the same just worded differently. Get used to it :) It is going to get a lot better for me!! And you, will be on a futile mission.

Nonetheless, religion must and will disappear, at least I truly hope so, or the world and all its peoples will decay into barbarism once again.

Once again, you know excatly what needs to be done. WOW! That must be a good feeling! Right on. Usually people do find their happiness in god. But you might just BE god!

Eva

PureEvil760

02-02-2006, 03:48 AM

the bible has been re-written for thousands of years for the purposes of controlling humans so i believe none of it is acctually real..the true bible is hidden in metaphores. Saying God is jesus and jesus is god is true..but wait oneironot is god and god is oneironot (thread creater's name) everyone is god and god is everyone..jesus just didnt have somthing everybody else had..exactly what i cannot say but it was somthing that blocks humans from seeing the true nature of god...just remember take nothing litteral from the bible that is just ignorant... a book around for 2000 years..hmm

Polymirize

02-02-2006, 04:53 AM

Flesh, I fail to see how "militant atheism" is in any way a viable solution...

Sure, atrocities are committed in the name of religion. But not all religious people commit atrocities. I've met some amazingly down to earth, creative and compassionate people, who consider themselves very religious. So obviously, the problem isn't religion but rather the same barbarism you were complaining about.
Why blame religion for barbarism? Why not simply blame the brutality?
Personally I feel the whole notion of "militant atheism" strikes a chord amazingly similar to that of any fundamentalist group. An expressed limitation on acceptable beliefs. In fact that's the exact opposite of siStarIndigo's thought of ignoring the differences and simply co-existing.

Because that's the bottom line, isn't it? Co-existence. Does it matter who's "right" and whose "wrong" as long as everyone is respected for their individual humanity?

In the battle for humanity, there are no winners without losers... But it doesn't need to be a contest. We can coexist. A way to live without exploitation. A way to be right in a way that doesn't make other ways wrong.

Just a thought I had...

streettrash

02-02-2006, 09:01 AM

But that is fine if you want to consider us (as in the general public like I stated before) ignorant because of the fact we, for the most part have no knowlege of this subject. But don't put me in that catagory by myself. There wouldn't have been a show about it if it was common knowlege. I am sure you are also ignorant, in one matter or another.

Yes, I would like to consider "you" (as in the general public like you stated before) ignorant because of the fact that you, for the most part, have no knowledge of the subject. The reson I would like to do this is because that is, in fact, a completely correct use of the word "ignorant".

If you don't want to be by yourself that's okay. I suppose I could just walk around quizzing people on astrobiology and get you some company, but as of right now the reason you're alone is because you're the only person who has made a statement on this board about astrobiology that showed ignorance (Well, there are probably more, but that was the only one I read). The general public is irrelevant since a majority of them aren't even participating in this thread. Also, I AM ignorant in many subjects, but the reason I didn't bring that up is because it's not relevant. We're not discussing "other subjects" and I haven't made any claims without justification that I'm aware of (at least in this thread) so there's no reason it would need to come up.

The Sci Fi channel show wasn't even about Astrobiology. It was about UFOs and anal probes and shit. The point to that story being, I'm not enlightened or anything. I'm just a stoner with cable TV, a college catalog, and a dictionary (featuring the word "Ignorant") and things just worked out this way.

mont974x4

02-02-2006, 02:44 PM

Pure, you make a good point. There are a lot of translataions out there. That's why I look to the original text using Greek and Hebrew dictionaries.

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 03:13 PM

Yes, I would like to consider "you" (as in the general public like you stated before) ignorant because of the fact that you, for the most part, have no knowledge of the subject. The reson I would like to do this is because that is, in fact, a completely correct use of the word "ignorant".

If you don't want to be by yourself that's okay. I suppose I could just walk around quizzing people on astrobiology and get you some company, but as of right now the reason you're alone is because you're the only person who has made a statement on this board about astrobiology that showed ignorance (Well, there are probably more, but that was the only one I read). The general public is irrelevant since a majority of them aren't even participating in this thread.

This thread isn't about astrobiology, and I didn't bring the subject up. Had I done so then yes, I would have been acting ignorantly. The fact that I am ignorant on the subject is a fact for the general population. It isn't that I am lonely, It is just that, well, your comment made no sense whatsoever :)

Also, I AM ignorant in many subjects, but the reason I didn't bring that up is because it's not relevant. We're not discussing "other subjects" and I haven't made any claims without justification that I'm aware of (at least in this thread) so there's no reason it would need to come up.

Actually we were discussing "Other subjects". Life in outer space just happend to come up. We were actually talking about GOD and existance and and afterlife. But you can go back and read it for yourself, since it is sounding very much like you haven't yet. I think that would be ignorant to be so intrusive on a conversation, not knowing where it started, and outter space wasn't it, son.

The Sci Fi channel show wasn't even about Astrobiology. It was about UFOs and anal probes and shit. The point to that story being, I'm not enlightened or anything. I'm just a stoner with cable TV, a college catalog, and a dictionary (featuring the word "Ignorant") and things just worked out this way.

OH! see now you made it out to be like you were an expert. So since you have only seen one show, that didn't even center the subject, wouldn't you really be the one acting ignorantly? Since YOU brought it up, not I. The only comment on it I made is the one you have tried to disect.

You don't even understand what you said! LOL This whole thread has turned into humor for me. Some people on here are so open minded, and calm and loving. I have meet some REALLY cool people here. Then we get the militant athiests who has all kinds to say, and then disappears. Or people who call themselves street trash, don't read a now 5 page long thread (and these are LONG pages), watches a mini show on a subject and then goes around correcting people about topics they didn't start. Then calling them ignorant when they ADMIT to not knowing about it. Your right, I am ignorant about the subject, along with everyone else who can't stand biology. And I plan to leave that stuff to those interested in it. This is the first time I have ever talked about it, and I was dragged into the converstaion by someone ignorant of the actual topic being discussed :)

late-

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 03:15 PM

aka215

02-02-2006, 04:02 PM

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 04:38 PM

The thing about the original bible is that it was actually a bunch of books. Like actual seperate, whole books, that this group of guys said, let's put these together. I am not discounting these guys by any means, or what they wrote. But these guys took PARTS of these books (the book of John, ect) and some entire books were even left out. Either by these guys or the church, who I am sure then edited what these guys put together. These original books, as in seperate, whole books are probably long gone, which is a shame.

Eva

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 04:42 PM

you are in error if you believe the Bible to be written in metaphores and only written to control human minds. Perhaps what you're really saying is that it penetrates your heart and you don't want to accept that YOU are responsible for YOUR sin?

I agree with you, in different words (the sin part, I call it karma). He is in this message board for a reason, I think it is him with a lot of questions. I can't explain why else an athiest would even come in here. Hopefully he has learned something. Anything.

Eva

F L E S H

02-02-2006, 04:54 PM

siSTARindigo,

Thanks for keeping it professional and not insulting people. That works great in discussions.

As for the "militant" part, I made that up cause I thought it was funny, forget it.

And I'm in the spirituality forum because it affects me, religion affects everyone whether they like it or not.

And people, all of you, sure,for now, let's live and let live, we'll be a big happy family, each with our own beliefs. But don't you realize what happening in the world? Fundamentalism is on an exponential rise in popularity, both in America and in the Middle-East. These are people willing to kill over the name of a god. And their leaders wouldn't want it any other way.

Look at Bush, Mr. Born-Again. He's using his religion as a form of control. So is Bin Laden, re-interpreting the Qur'an as he wishes to control people. That's what religion (at least, the Big Three) is for, population control.

And siSTAR, yes, it's a big deal if you just pick and choose what you want to believe in while rejecting stuff you don't like. It just doesn't make sense. You feel better about yourself because you believe in a god? Are you less afraid to live on your daily life knowing that there's a nice old man waiting to give you a big hug after you die?

Fact is, people the world over have been picking and choosing what to believe since the dawn of humanity. Three thousand years ago, it was Egyptian religion... The came the Greeks and the Romans, with something else. Today, their religious stories are considered "mythology", a nice little fairy tale with some life-lessons. Now who decided we should all stop believing that and start believing in a completely different fairy-tale? Jesus Christ? He didn't even exist... And his religion is a re-hash of ancient Egyptian religion anyway.

So yeah, like you said, all the major religions pick and choose what they want to believe and leave out the rest, I guess you could do it to. So I believe the world was created last week by a giant Dwarf named Andy, and he just makes us believe that the world is older through telepathy, and when we die we all end up in a land of candy with holy dwarves running among us. Don't mock my beliefs, you igÂ·noÂ·rant person! It's all here in my book, Andy's world.

F L E S H

02-02-2006, 04:56 PM

I agree with you, in different words (the sin part, I call it karma). He is in this message board for a reason, I think it is him with a lot of questions. I can't explain why else an athiest would even come in here. Hopefully he has learned something. Anything.

Eva
Wow, I didn't even see this before I replied... So you decide to believe in a Christian-type god, but you don't believe in sin, you believe in Karma. Like I said in another post, at least fundamentalists are consistent.

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 05:17 PM

siSTARindigo,
As for the "militant" part, I made that up cause I thought it was funny, forget it.

The only reason I even typed that was because it was funny. I was really commenting on the athiest part.

And I'm in the spirituality forum because it affects me, religion affects everyone whether they like it or not.

Why does it affect you if you don't believe in it? It still sounds as if you are very insecure, and unsure.

And people, all of you, sure,for now, let's live and let live, we'll be a big happy family, each with our own beliefs. But don't you realize what happening in the world? Fundamentalism is on an exponential rise in popularity, both in America and in the Middle-East. These are people willing to kill over the name of a god. And their leaders wouldn't want it any other way.

Look at Bush, Mr. Born-Again. He's using his religion as a form of control. So is Bin Laden, re-interpreting the Qur'an as he wishes to control people. That's what religion (at least, the Big Three) is for, population control.

This is exactly why I say that I am a spiritual person, instead of a religious person. Because bad people have given a bad name, and taken something that was supposed to be good and turned it into a horrible business. Yes, and use it for control, just like a cult. There is good and bad, positive and negative. Don't allow the bad to outshine the good.

And siSTAR, yes, it's a big deal if you just pick and choose what you want to believe in while rejecting stuff you don't like. It just doesn't make sense. You feel better about yourself because you believe in a god? Are you less afraid to live on your daily life knowing that there's a nice old man waiting to give you a big hug after you die?

Actually I don't subscribe to the "sex" of god, much less wether or not there is a beard. Again, you would have known that had you read this whole conversation:rolleyes: And maybe the stuff I don't like is just the crap people have changed and added.

And actually I believe that there are tons of passed family members, animals, friends, angels, guides, ascended masters, there to great you with "love" when your body dies. What exactly do you think it is then that leaves our body when we die? And it has to go somewhere. Something inside us that makes us each unique (personality) leaves, and our body starts to decay. 2 years old, 102 years old. What is "this" energy which can be recorded? And where does it go?

Fact is, people the world over have been picking and choosing what to believe since the dawn of humanity. Three thousand years ago, it was Egyptian religion... The came the Greeks and the Romans, with something else. Today, their religious stories are considered "mythology", a nice little fairy tale with some life-lessons. Now who decided we should all stop believing that and start believing in a completely different fairy-tale? Jesus Christ? He didn't even exist... And his religion is a re-hash of ancient Egyptian religion anyway.

So yeah, like you said, all the major religions pick and choose what they want to believe and leave out the rest, I guess you could do it to. So I believe the world was created last week by a giant Dwarf named Andy, and he just makes us believe that the world is older through telepathy, and when we die we all end up in a land of candy with holy dwarves running among us. Don't mock my beliefs, you igÂ·noÂ·rant person! It's all here in my book, Andy's world.

There really isn't a point to quoting this but it was really funny. You should really write books or something. Your very imaginative, and entertaining. You could be a millionare:thumbsup:

Eva:dance:

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 05:18 PM

Wow, I didn't even see this before I replied... So you decide to believe in a Christian-type god, but you don't believe in sin, you believe in Karma. Like I said in another post, at least fundamentalists are consistent.

Google agnostic christian and MAYBE you will begin to have an inclining of a clue.

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 05:26 PM

Oh, and I didn't say I didn't believe in sin, I said I believe that you ARE responsible for YOUR own actions just like aka215 said. I just think it comes back to you, you reap what you sow. A sin is just a bad thing to do in general to me. Your just supposed to be good, love everyone no matter what, don't steal, don't hurt people OR animals. Don't lie, ect, ect, ect. or else you get it back. Karma baby ;)

F L E S H

02-02-2006, 07:09 PM

Google agnostic christian and MAYBE you will begin to have an inclining of a clue.
I don't incline to clues, but I do have inklings... But maybe you should read something other than what you can google.

siSTARindigo

02-02-2006, 08:05 PM

you got it buddy. can't get me on a point, get me on spelling error.

LAMO........

Polymirize

02-02-2006, 10:13 PM

Thanks for keeping it professional and not insulting people. That works great in discussions.

I guess the search for consistency continues then. huh, Flesh?

:thumbsup:

PureEvil760

02-03-2006, 02:36 AM

lol aka215..eaither ur mind is filled with falseties (if thats a word..) or you're fucking with me

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 05:18 PM

Yes, I'm am a militant atheist

I think it is obvious I have at least stumped you :) So I have said the label most fitting for me is an Agnostic Christian, because I do believe in a god. You would just be an agnostic (and militant), meaning you just don't know (and whatever militant means), period. I have found you a bumper sticker and will buy it for you and send it to you if you like, seriously. Just give me an addy :) Check it out :)

http://carryabigsticker.com/images/militant_agnostic_500.gif

Eva

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 06:24 PM

Can you explain your view as an agnostic Christian? I don't want to hammer on you just understand where you're coming from.

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 07:13 PM

Can you explain your view as an agnostic Christian? I don't want to hammer on you just understand where you're coming from.

Questions are fine, you are in no way hammering :)

I personally don't like labels, and don't subscribe to any particular one. I only mentioned that particular label because of FLESH calling it weird to believe in a christian type god, yet believe in karma. Agnostic christian is basically that. I do believe a lot of their beliefs though, and you can google this. I don't really have the time to get into it. I am married, with a 3 year old, and we are now moving to another state, YIPPEEE! It would take forever on a message board. Besides, I always like people to do their own research on a subject.

Eva

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 07:18 PM

I did google it. I was just curious to your personal thoughts because I believe this to be a personal issue. Thanks!

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 07:28 PM

If you have a particular question about MY beliefs I would be happy to answer you. If that helps. I just think that there is always 2 sides, and a middle to every label, subject, everything. So I try really hard to stay away from labels, unless a particular person has already chosen one themselves. I have also been married very young, for a long time, so I know a LOT about communication, and I TRY really hard not to say always and never. I have learned that I am not always right, sometimes neither one of the parties in a conversation is right. I do have a 99% accuracy rate though ;)

Eva

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 07:40 PM

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 08:28 PM

lol as long as you're humble ;-P just teasing I am married too and have 4 sons the oldest is 12 and the youngest is 2. I have an idea what busy is. lol

Labels are wrong, I agree. I was just trying to understand your view agnostic and Christian don't seem to go together very well. That is if we draw a hardline on the definition of Christian.

Agnostics basically know something is out there, but don't know what is is. Christians come in all types. There are the really great people who love god, and will tell you about it if you want to hear, but don't knock on peoples doors 3 times a week for months. There are the hard core christians who act like they have done something horrible in a past life and are trying to repent on it in this one, and part of that "repent" is to take as many people with them as possible by any means. And then everyone in between including the priest molesting the little boy, yet being a "model" citezen.

They can blend very nicely if neither of them are given a box to reside in.

And I am wrong more than 1% when it comes to my hubby. I was joking. But I am very hard to argue with, because I will never tell you that your wrong. And I might agree with you, but.......

Eva

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 08:50 PM

ahhh you just enjoy the discussion sometimes. ;-P It's ok, I do too. I play the devils advocate sometimes just to have have a conversation. However I don't like discussing hard issues with people that just say what they think and don't have an idea why they think what they think. lol Did that make sense? It's like arguing about politics with someone who just sets their opinion based on 30 second soundbites on the news without actually researching the issues for themselves.

I try to be in that first group. I am annoyed with hardcore Bible thumpers because they do more harm than good. I am also annoyed by people that claim to be Christian but really have no idea. (hence my comment in the first paragraph).

I would define a Christian as someone striving to be Christ-like. Oversimplified I know, but I can expand on that thought later.

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 09:05 PM

From where "we've" been to where we are, you are absolutely in the first group you mentioned. You are mature enough to come and say, okay, so what about this? And even if you don't believe, any of it. You are behaving christ-like by being accepting, and non-judgmental.

My argument with FLESH was the existance in god period. That is a sad thing I feel. I don't really care about anything else, as long as it is something that makes you happy, and not scared. I believe in re-incarnation, but I don't care if anyone else does. That isn't something that matters, we will all find out the truth by experience when that time comes.

God's existance is worth defending, I am sure you agree :)

Eva

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 09:09 PM

I am married to a confirmed Catholic, from a whole family of catholics. And he believes in reincarnation. He had that belief before me, which was a long time ago. He just didn't have a name for it :)

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 09:14 PM

I have seen far too much evidence in my own life for me to think that there is no God.

BTW, thanks for the compliment.

Jay

siSTARindigo

02-03-2006, 11:31 PM

Someone (I think it was flesh but maybe not) even suggested that Jesus didn't even exist. I had so much material to wade through, but I think that claim was missed.

Saying that Jesus didn't exist truley prove how ignorant, as a person the author of that post is. Jesus existed just like his mother mary, Buddah, Mahatma Gandi, The list goes on and on. Jesus get's picked on because he is the celebrity of the many "masters" we have had along the way. All I mean by masters is that they had mastered the illusion duality. They knew that God was accessable to everyone, but through him was a short cut basically. We all have the power to connect with god directly. But people like Jesus were like a doorway to god. You could feel god in there energy field even if you weren't sensitive to it.

Anyway, just wanted to also defend jesus's existance. Scientist doen't even refute that one, they just think he was crazy.

Eva

mont974x4

02-03-2006, 11:41 PM

There's too much historical evidence to prove he walked the earth. Even Pilate, the Roman that oversaw His trial, has writings about the case.

I have also heard people say Jesus was just a great teacher. How can they claim Him to be a great teacher and then turn around and say what he taught was false? I don't understand that argument.

I do believe the Bible in its entirety. However, I do reserach the original text so I know what was originally intended. I don't believe I can pick and choose what I want to believe in this. It's all or nothing for me.

siSTARindigo

02-04-2006, 03:49 AM

And I respect your belief. And thank you for being able to respect mine. I just wish that the churches hadn't burnt up all the original stuff. I also really with I could read the whole books from the bible, again, originals that are gone forever. I can give you a link to the lost teachings of jesus, but I am doubting you would accept how this information was obtained. Which is fine. But if you are interested I would be happy to let you know. There are about 4 books in a set called the lost teachings of Jesus.

Eva

mont974x4

02-04-2006, 02:43 PM

I'm familiar with them. but thanks!

siSTARindigo

02-04-2006, 03:14 PM

No problem. My hubby found them very interesting because they really hash out the differences in bible versions. Plus of course the authors "information".

Eva

MoonStarer420

02-06-2006, 01:49 AM

I have seen far too much evidence in my own life for me to think that there is no God.

Like what? I haven't heard of any real evidence for the existence of any god. It's not possible because itâ??s not testable.

Try testing prayer. No matter the outcome, it will be "answered" or it was "part of gods plan" and was meant to happen.

What makes you so sure your ideas are correct? What was wrong with the old Greek gods, Hinduism, Islam? What makes them wrong and yours right? I see no difference between any of them. Their all based on untestable and unobservable ideas. How do you know if it's reality if it's based on faith? It's much better to ask questions and understand than it is to be ignorant.

mont974x4

02-06-2006, 02:02 AM

The fact I'm alive when I shouldn't be..many times over.
Watching birds fly South and how they shift positions for better aerodynamics and to adjust when lead birds get tired.

I don't believe in coincidence or chance and I don't believe instincts can be explained by evolution.

MoonStarer420

02-06-2006, 03:06 AM

I don't believe in coincidence or chance and I don't believe instincts can be explained by evolution.

Well there is a difference between belief and reality, isn't there? I don't mean to attack you, but those are personal reasons and they don't prove very much to other people.

mont974x4

02-06-2006, 03:08 AM

OK reality is monkeys are still here. Wouldn't they be gone if we evolved from them?

Polymirize

02-06-2006, 08:36 AM

Well there is a difference between belief and reality, isn't there?

This seems like the big question. What is the difference between belief and reality? You mentioned that if it's not testable it's not possible. Why?
Do you realise how many scientific, psychological, and philosophical concepts we take on "faith" everyday?

What do you believe to be reality? And what's really just belief?

MoonStarer420

02-07-2006, 01:19 AM

OK reality is monkeys are still here. Wouldn't they be gone if we evolved from them?

First, we didn't evolve from monkeys, but we do share a common ansestor with them. They "branched off" millions of years ago. Our "side" then branched off into apes. Which we are. And the other side branched off into Monkeys. It dosen't just have to be 2 branches, some event might have happened to isolate a bunch of diffrent groups but many new species that arise will probally go extint if they cannot adapt to their enviorment.

I bet you've heard of the Phylogenetic tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylogenetic_tree) It's the same idea. Thats why our DNA is somthing like 98% simular to that of Chimps, and thats why we are much closer to other Apes then we are to Monkeys.

MoonStarer420

02-07-2006, 01:43 AM

This seems like the big question. What is the difference between belief and reality? /QUOTE]

It's not that I know what reality is, it's just that science has the best explanations for what reality might be. Medicine is based on science not on religion, and what will work better penicillin or prayer if you have an infection? How many people would not be alive today if we werenâ??t able to build pacemakers, disinfectants, Anesthesia, Defibrillators, x-ray machines, I.V.'s, ect,.? We would still be riding on horseback if it werenâ??t for innovations in physics that let us develop engines. Science will never be 100% accurate, ever, but itâ??s our best tool to understand the world around us. Pseudoscienceâ??s and religion are nothing more then placebo's.

"All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike-and yet it is the most presious thing we have."-Albert Einstein

[QUOTE=Polymirize] You mentioned that if it's not testable it's not possible. Why?

I didn't mean it in that context, just that it's impossable to prove God exists. Atleast I don't see how you could either directly observe him or design an experiment to do so.

Do you realise how many scientific, psychological, and philosophical concepts we take on "faith" everyday?
What do you believe to be reality? And what's really just belief?

Reality is the Universe in which we live; beliefs are how we think is. The problem is, some things will happen even if we don't believe in them or even acknowledge their existence. So I could be wrong. But I'd still rather trust science which is "belived" to work over somthing which seems like it's never worked.

Stoner Shadow Wolf

02-07-2006, 01:57 AM

you want proof, Moon? learn how to project your consciousness to the astral plane. then ask your spirit guide(s) to visit god. chances are they will act in an odd manner and deny you such a right, and tell you that you arent ready.

chances are, no human alive today is ready to meet god face to face, let alone see the existance of god.

that which is god is so far beyond anything we've ever experianced, it is very possible that we will never experiance god ourselves, or at least live to tell about it.

siSTARindigo

02-07-2006, 03:24 AM

It's not that I know what reality is, it's just that science has the best explanations for what reality might be.

Oh really? Your einstien quote says otherwise. It is primitive and childlike, eh?

Medicine is based on science not on religion, and what will work better penicillin or prayer if you have an infection? How many people would not be alive today if we werenâ??t able to build pacemakers, disinfectants, Anesthesia, Defibrillators, x-ray machines, I.V.'s, ect,.?

What about homeopathy, Reiki, herbs? Hello, you act like all "religious" people use is prayer. Which, on the flip side is manifestation. Just because you haven't seen evidence of something doesn't mean other people haven't. Is your ego really that big?

We would still be riding on horseback if it werenâ??t for innovations in physics that let us develop engines. Science will never be 100% accurate, ever, but itâ??s our best tool to understand the world around us.

Actually, I find my self my best tool for reseach. And science is mearly one catagory of the many ways to understand the world around us.

I didn't mean it in that context, just that it's impossable to prove God exists. Atleast I don't see how you could either directly observe him or design an experiment to do so.

There is a vibrational level to everything in existance, energy. Wouldn't it make sense for GOD to be energy also? Energy isn't something you can always see. Doesn't mean it isn't there ;)

So I could be wrong. Glad your humble.

Eva

siSTARindigo

02-07-2006, 04:02 AM

OK reality is monkeys are still here. Wouldn't they be gone if we evolved from them?

HA HA HA, I love it don't you! The whole, we evolved from apes bit. We got AIDS from them to, did you hear?

Yeah, I believe in evolution, but not to that extent. I think it is more about adaption, than evalution.

Eva

siSTARindigo

02-07-2006, 04:57 AM

I have a link for anyone willing to see the history of man's relationship with GOD. This is undeniably the most popular theory out there, and there was a day when GOD was not a theory, but fact. For the sake of argument I will call it a theory.

http://www.sacredsites.com/pages/explore.html

Science has checked these places out, you know. Vibrational levels are high, "miracles" are experienced.

Think what you want, but I say that GOD is provable, to anyone willing to go the distance in a debate. But as shown in this topic, it must be done person by person. And all narrow minded people need not apply, because it's a contradiction in itself to discuss something if your not open to changing your mind on it. That is just a power struggle, and I am above that. I don't wish to win. I just wish for people to read the whole conversation before making a huge ass out of themselves.

Eva

seedbare

02-07-2006, 05:55 PM

when your praying to god just who do you think your talking to?

siSTARindigo

02-07-2006, 06:39 PM

Medicine is based on science not on religion, and what will work better penicillin or prayer if you have an infection? How many people would not be alive today if we werenâ??t able to build pacemakers, disinfectants, Anesthesia, Defibrillators, x-ray machines, I.V.'s, ect,.? We would still be riding on horseback if it werenâ??t for innovations in physics that let us develop engines. Science will never be 100% accurate, ever, but itâ??s our best tool to understand the world around us. Pseudoscienceâ??s and religion are nothing more then placebo's.

I know I already quoted this paragraph but DAMN, I missed something huge. Were do you think penicillin came from? And there are natural disinfectants, tea tree oil, clove oil......

Science makes meth, GOD made marijuana ;)

I am not discounting the things science have done for us as a race. But you are talking about apples and oranges here. You are putting a box around the label religion for one thing. And your acting like it's science OR "religion". Your talking about inventions, and we are talking about an existance outside of what everybody can SEE.

Eva

mont974x4

02-07-2006, 06:52 PM

Eva, good point.

Jay

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 12:41 AM

Yeah, where do all these big talkers disappear to? There have been a few who have gracfully bowed out, but there have been some mouthy ones who just disapear......

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 03:16 AM

I think I found one of them ;) Steven Segal joined today, and already has 50 posts, all about how steven Segal is GOD.

Maybe it is the militant athiest, who seemed to have a thing for Magiever. Just a hunch......

Eva

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 04:08 AM

I know I already quoted this paragraph but DAMN, I missed something huge. Were do you think penicillin came from? And there are natural disinfectants, tea tree oil, clove oil......

Science makes meth, GOD made marijuana ;)

I am not discounting the things science have done for us as a race. But you are talking about apples and oranges here. You are putting a box around the label religion for one thing. And your acting like it's science OR "religion". Your talking about inventions, and we are talking about an existance outside of what everybody can SEE.

Eva
It's all chemicals... so it doesn't really matter. Apples and Oranges? No, it's fruit. That's it.

HA HA HA, I love it don't you! The whole, we evolved from apes bit. We got AIDS from them to, did you hear?

Yeah, I believe in evolution, but not to that extent. I think it is more about adaption, than evalution.

Eva
And that IS evolution, Methhead.

MoonStarer420

02-08-2006, 05:09 AM

Were do you think penicillin came from? And there are natural disinfectants, tea tree oil, clove oil......

Science makes meth, GOD made marijuana ;)

Science is also the understanding of how the world works. Science can explain how penicillin works and how all the natural disinfectants work. It's not just about the creation of new technologies, its an understanding of how things work together. Using that knowlage you can learn what is possible and what is impossible.

I do admit science is a double edged sword when it comes to developing new technologies. it's given us the worst things ever created Hydrogen/atomic bombs. But it also teaches us why we should never use them.

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 05:42 AM

It's all chemicals... so it doesn't really matter. Apples and Oranges? No, it's fruit. That's it.

And that IS evolution, Methhead.

Actually penicillin came from mold, which was here long before chemicals, or people. And adaptation is not evolution. They are both in the dictionary, therefore they both have different definitions.

Methhead, I am in there telling people to stay away fromt the shit, and you bring it in here on another board. You are an immature, 17, and I am above your nasty attitude.

Peace out!:dance:

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 05:48 AM

mont974x4

02-08-2006, 05:49 AM

there's a diference between evolution and adaptation

MoonStarer420

02-08-2006, 06:01 AM

there's a diference between evolution and adaptation

I don't see how they are. Evolution describes the long term effects of small changes to DNA and what would happen if two groups of the same species were isolated from each other for a limited amount of time.

This is becoming redundant; I'm done responding unless you can disprove evolution or at least come up with something new to add to the discussion.

If you could disprove evolution THAT would earn you a Nobel Prize. The Scientific community rewards its heretics if they can prove their ideas.

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 06:04 AM

I didn't know you had used before I posted that, and I intended to make light of the subject with that. Not as an insult... not that I care as the making light was only for me. But I apolgize for calling you a methhead, regardless, because it was rude. I'm sorry.

Your right, it was rude. And it hurt my feelings because I haven't touched the shit for almost 3 years, and have done it a handfull of times. And you come into the spiritual board, where I am in my life now, and spreed rumors. As I recall, a methhead does meth, which I don't do. I am 24 years old for your information, my partying years weren't that long ago. And again, I am 24, and have been married for 4 years. I went through that starge where I wanted to still be young. Then I grew up, got good jobs where I learned a lot about what it really is. Maybe that is why I feel so strongly about it.

I want nothing to do with you, or anything you have to say. You are blocked as of now. You can't come up with a point, you just go around and try to discredit people with rumors.

You said it yourself in the forum this should have stayed in. You don't know me, and you are being WAY judgemental when I opened up to tell you something to relate to you. And you use it against me, again, VERY juvenile (teenagish even). I am done with you.

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 06:07 AM

Who cares what the definition is? We as humans learn to adapt to our land and cope just like fishes developed lungs to breathe on land. To cope with where they were being forced to move to... evolution kicked in and slowly had them develop a lung that could work on land. But it's still them adapting to the change. Even the predators adapted so that they could once again prey on the fishies. It's all the same thing... you're just taking one thing and calling it something else.

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 06:11 AM

I don't see how they are. Evolution describes the long term effects of small changes to DNA and what would happen if two groups of the same species were isolated from each other for a limited amount of time.

This is becoming redundant; I'm done responding unless you can disprove evolution or at least come up with something new to add to the discussion.

If you could disprove evolution THAT would earn you a Nobel Prize. The Scientific community rewards its heretics if they can prove their ideas.

Evolution says apes can and will, with enough time become humans. That is an entire species change. Adaption says that humans were cavemen, but learned things, through trial and error, and adapted. Like black people adapted to the sun in africa by their skin darkening, protecting them more. Or penguins, who have stubbornly stayed after the ice age.

Eva

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 06:11 AM

Your right, it was rude. And it hurt my feelings because I haven't touched the shit for almost 3 years, and have done it a handfull of times. And you come into the spiritual board, where I am in my life now, and spreed rumors. As I recall, a methhead does meth, which I don't do. I am 24 years old for your information, my partying years weren't that long ago. And again, I am 24, and have been married for 4 years. I went through that starge where I wanted to still be young. Then I grew up, got good jobs where I learned a lot about what it really is. Maybe that is why I feel so strongly about it.

I want nothing to do with you, or anything you have to say. You are blocked as of now. You can't come up with a point, you just go around and try to discredit people with rumors.

You said it yourself in the forum this should have stayed in. You don't know me, and you are being WAY judgemental when I opened up to tell you something to relate to you. And you use it against me, again, VERY juvenile (teenagish even). I am done with you.

I'm real hurt. I couldn't come up with something you could understand... I guess it's because you're too much smarter then my teenage self. I feel strongly as well... about people like you imposing on people and telling them what they should do, when you can't even figure out what YOU should do. Just because what I said flew over your fucking head, doesn't mean I didn't have a point. All you can focus on is the negative... did I break a few bones? Oh well, I apologized and explained myself. I'm not looking to relate to you, so bye.

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 06:16 AM

Evolution says apes can and will, with enough time become humans. That is an entire species change. Adaption says that humans were cavemen, but learned things, through trial and error, and adapted. Like black people adapted to the sun in africa by their skin darkening, protecting them more. Or penguins, who have stubbornly stayed after the ice age.

Eva

Yes, by definition... but aren't people evolving by adapting to their constantly changing life. I mean, if one person comes across this vital information that changes the world as we know it, isn't that evolving to the next level? I mean, when scientists came up with the evolutionary theory, that in itself started the next step in evolution.

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 06:25 AM

Yeah, where do all these big talkers disappear to? There have been a few who have gracfully bowed out, but there have been some mouthy ones who just disapear......

Then you get the mouthy ones, who is actually arguing that meth isn't bad unless you "abuse" it. Not that that had anything to do with this converstaion. Some of the mouthy ones have such a huge ego, they just can't let it go, and resort to getting you with a stupid spelling error, or name calling. I guess that is what I get for trying to have and adult conversation with a KID who already does meth.

*sigh*

Even disappearing is better than leaving looking like a fool by saying "your stupid, and a meth head"

Eva

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 06:28 AM

Could you shut up and stick to the topic... I have not once deviated from the subject matter of this thread unless it was in response to some post you made regarding the Meth thread. So could you stop whining? Man, it's the internet, so no one cares. And I admitted it was an immature thing to do, calling you a methhead outside of that thread but at the time I WAS trying to relate, I guess, and it was a joke. I didn't know you ever did Meth, and I already apologized. Stop looking for some sympathy from the spirtual folk. This is a discussion about Evolution.

MoonStarer420

02-08-2006, 06:29 AM

Evolution says apes can and will, with enough time become humans.

We had a common ancestor with other apes, not that we evolved directly from them.

There is no direction to evolution. The environment influences what species will survive and selects against those with less fitness. There is no way we can tell which way any animal will evolve into or branch off into. Only that it has and is going on.

Like black people adapted to the sun in Africa by their skin darkening, protecting them more.

Their skin darkens because their DNA codes for more melanin (a protein) to be made. If they were isolated from the rest of the world long enough (millions of years), then through variation and mutations, their DNA would differentiate from ours so much we would be unable to reproduce with them, thus a new species.

Theres not much more I can say. But it seems like neither one of us is going to change our minds.

CocaCola

02-08-2006, 06:32 AM

siSTARindigo

02-08-2006, 06:48 AM

We had a common ancestor with other apes, not that we evolved directly from them.

There is no direction to evolution. The environment influences what species will survive and selects against those with less fitness. There is no way we can tell which way any animal will evolve into or branch off into. Only that it has and is going on.

Their skin darkens because their DNA codes for more melanin (a protein) to be made. If they were isolated from the rest of the world long enough (millions of years), then through variation and mutations, their DNA would differentiate from ours so much we would be unable to reproduce with them, thus a new species.

Theres not much more I can say. But it seems like neither one of us is going to change our minds.

As far as changing eachothers mind, I don't care to do that. I think things can be discussed without being condesending. I can have attitude, but I have refrained from saying some things in this bored that I have been thinking. That comes with maturity, and age.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

I believe what I believe, and I believe in God. Which turns evolution into adaption. exept that the theory of evolution doesn't include god.

Eva