Atheism

[Toothpick]

I noticed their are alot of atheists on cannabis.com and I was just wondering if you dont believe in any type of God then what do you believe in? evolution shouldn't be a option because it has more faults then any kind of religion. Besides evolution their isnt much if your a atheist that doesnt believe in evolution then you probably believe in nothing. Arguements against religion is usually answered with a arguement against atheism and vice versa. If you are to look at only atheism then you would never change because you would never hear otherwise as the same with other religions. So I must say before you decide on being a atheist look into every other possibility and you may find something else that is alot more understandable. Question your belief hardly ask impossible questions and if it comes out clean then their you have it a foolproof look at life that no one can prove wrong.
Im sure this thread will lead to alot of hate towards me but if you do as i have said then you will come out rewarded believe me.

[thcbongman]

I myself believe in a higher power, so I don't qualify as an atheist, but I understand their point of view.

I don't believe it's true that athiests can't change. As long as you are a decent human being and you help others, it doesn't matter what religion you are. We could only look at the suffering all humans go through and take it as facts of life. We all may have a different perception of what happens in the afterlife, but as long as you lived life to the fullest, you leave this world in peace.

[Toothpick]

thats a good way of looking at it but i noticed that most of the atheists hear seem to be really intolerant of other religions which if you ask me should change

[Oneironaut]

I noticed their are alot of atheists on cannabis.com and I was just wondering if you dont believe in any type of God then what do you believe in?
I believe in mankind.

So I must say before you decide on being a atheist look into every other possibility and you may find something else that is alot more understandable. Question your belief hardly ask impossible questions and if it comes out clean then their you have it a foolproof look at life that no one can prove wrong.
Have you done the same searching of beliefs? I, for one, have investigated all the major religions and found them all conspicuously lacking in evidence to back up their claims of the supernatural. And their gods have not delivered on their promises of peace; religious dogma has been nothing but a constant bloodbath from the beginning. If there is a loving God out there, it certainly isn't involving itself in our lives, so there's no point speculating about it and either way the result is the same: mankind is on its own and needs to come up with its own solutions to its own problems. Salvation will not come from the supernatural. Our worldly problems demand worldly solutions, and we can't waste our time worrying about extraordinary claims that don't have any evidence going for them, like leprechauns, unicorns, Santa Claus, souls, demons, gods, or prophets. That's what atheism is about.

[F L E S H]

thats a good way of looking at it but i noticed that most of the atheists hear seem to be really intolerant of other religions which if you ask me should change
Hmmm, you're new here aren't you?

You probably haven't come to the realization that you DON'T have to believe in anything. Like Oneironaut before me, I believe in mankind, in humanity, in our potential to surpass and transcend any petty squabbles. I believe in the Here and Now, I believe in Power, because it's something we can all attain, but most importantly I believe in Reason and Intellect and Knowledge and Resposibility. Those are my gods.

What I don't love is submission, ignorance, the will to nothingness which most religions (i.e. the big three monotheistic ones...) preach and force upon their congregations. For the past 2,000 years we are consistently being told by religious authorities that to have too much knowledge is bad for us, that scientists really shouldn't dig too deeply because they might find things that refute religious doctrines. The major religions want you stupid and docile, they want you to go where you're told to go, do what you're told to do, and think what you're told to think.

Like somebody else said, it strikes me how only atheists ever read the Bible the carefully, because chances are that if you do just that, the entire religious edifice will collapse under the weight of its own faulty logic. So let me ask you, in this day and age, don't we owe ourselves at least a little logic? Shouldn't we use our so-called god-given gifts of reason and logic to transcend, to go beyond religion?

A medieval German mystic, named Master Eckhart, once said, "I ask of God that he rid me of God." Today we can do just that.

[MudFu]

thats a good way of looking at it but i noticed that most of the atheists hear seem to be really intolerant of other religions which if you ask me should change

You know what, I agree. Intolerance will get you no where in this world. Weither you believe in God or not, if you are intolerant no one will care what you have to say. I already do not listen nor read any posts from certian perople because they show no signs of trying to understand. You can choose to not believe in God but calling down someone who does is just moronic. Same goes for people who call down others that do not believe. It is their belief and let them have it. Do not push your ideas on others.

[Klae]

I don't know what I believe in, I just know that it isn't organized religion. I see religion as an excuse for humans to have something to blame the unexplainable on. As for evolution, who knows. I just kinda go with the flow...ya hear? M'kay.

[F L E S H]

You know what, I agree. Intolerance will get you no where in this world. Weither you believe in God or not, if you are intolerant no one will care what you have to say. I already do not listen nor read any posts from certian perople because they show no signs of trying to understand. You can choose to not believe in God but calling down someone who does is just moronic. Same goes for people who call down others that do not believe. It is their belief and let them have it. Do not push your ideas on others.
Don't give me that crap. We are not pushing anything on you, we're just pointing out that religion does not make sense and the world would be better off without it. If that offends you, so be it, you gotta offend sometimes to snap people back into reality.

Speaking of intolerance, it's not atheists who have murdered people for the past 2,000 years for the simple reason that they believe in another religion...

[MudFu]

Don't give me that crap. We are not pushing anything on you, we're just pointing out that religion does not make sense and the world would be better off without it. If that offends you, so be it, you gotta offend sometimes to snap people back into reality.

Well someone took what I said to heart. I didn't come out and say names now did I. You just assum I was talking about you. Get over yourself. Their is noone in thie topic I was refering to. I was simply stating that intolerance gets you no where. And I did say "You can choose to not believe in God but calling down someone who does is just moronic. Same goes for people who call down others that do not believe." I know many murders have been caused by religion but you know what many murders were cuz that had nothing to do with religion. Your using religion as a simple way to blame all the bad in the world. Don't be so quick to snap at someone. I never said anything that should have offended you. And I pointed out I don't listen to who trys to offend me so I don't get offended.

[F L E S H]

Well someone took what I said to heart. I didn't come out and say names now did I. You just assum I was talking about you. Get over yourself. Their is noone in thie topic I was refering to. I was simply stating that intolerance gets you no where. And I did say "You can choose to not believe in God but calling down someone who does is just moronic. Same goes for people who call down others that do not believe." I know many murders have been caused by religion but you know what many murders were cuz that had nothing to do with religion. Your using religion as a simple way to blame all the bad in the world. Don't be so quick to snap at someone. I never said anything that should have offended you. And I pointed out I don't listen to who trys to offend me so I don't get offended.
Why do people think I get offended when I write here? I just asked for you not to say crap like that. I'm still happy :)

But to re-iterate, yeah, I said murder, but I really meant war and misery. And of course it's not ALL atrocities that are caused in some way or another by religion, but the great majority are. Still, there is no question whatsoever that whenever people stop placing blind faith in religion, the world will be a better place. No doubt about it.

[sugarmagnolia]

I noticed their are alot of atheists on cannabis.com and I was just wondering if you dont believe in any type of God then what do you believe in? evolution shouldn't be a option because it has more faults then any kind of religion. Besides evolution their isnt much if your a atheist that doesnt believe in evolution then you probably believe in nothing. Arguements against religion is usually answered with a arguement against atheism and vice versa. If you are to look at only atheism then you would never change because you would never hear otherwise as the same with other religions. So I must say before you decide on being a atheist look into every other possibility and you may find something else that is alot more understandable. Question your belief hardly ask impossible questions and if it comes out clean then their you have it a foolproof look at life that no one can prove wrong.
Im sure this thread will lead to alot of hate towards me but if you do as i have said then you will come out rewarded believe me.
You present yourself like a jackass. why are you offering guidance to only atheists and singling them out. Why not tell everyone to look at every religion possible. I get the impression that you believe athesim to be close-minded. but the way I see it it is just as close-minded as taking another stance that happens to be an organized religion.

[Toothpick]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
if you really paid attencion to what i said then you wouldof seen that I was moreover using atheism as a example as it seems to be a very close minded type of religion even though technically it isnt a religion. What you just said shows alot of bad towards atheism and it seems to me sugar that you hold atheism close to you as if it was a religion.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

hey, who was it who had a quote of me saying something about a burn? :D

[ADaisyChain]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
if you really paid attencion to what i said then you wouldof seen that I was moreover using atheism as a example as it seems to be a very close minded type of religion even though technically it isnt a religion. What you just said shows alot of bad towards atheism and it seems to me sugar that you hold atheism close to you as if it was a religion.

Define: Religion

# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
# an institution to express belief in a divine power



If an atheist denies the supernatural, how is it anything like religion? I'd say its more of a belief. You can't compare religion and atheism simply because they are both beliefs. Lots of things are beliefs and you can't just lump shit up like that. Doesn't work.

[Oneironaut]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
if you really paid attencion to what i said then you wouldof seen that I was moreover using atheism as a example as it seems to be a very close minded type of religion even though technically it isnt a religion. What you just said shows alot of bad towards atheism and it seems to me sugar that you hold atheism close to you as if it was a religion.
How is atheism close-minded? Atheists are some of the most open-minded people I know. Most atheists were not raised atheists so they had to have an open mind to get to atheism in the first place. Almost every atheist I've ever met has been quite receptive to new ideas, but reluctant to accept them as true until shown sufficient evidence. How is it close-minded to demand evidence before you believe some new idea? It's not that we don't consider the possibility of a supernatural, it's just that we see a conspicuous lack of evidence for it. If the supernatural interacts with our physical universe, where's the evidence? If it doesn't, what's the point of religion since nobody can possibly come to know anything about it?

[Oneironaut]

Also, note that if you're going to believe in anything you pretty much have to reject thousands of religions, past and present. The atheist just happens to reject one more religion than the believer.

[juggalo420]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
if you really paid attencion to what i said then you wouldof seen that I was moreover using atheism as a example as it seems to be a very close minded type of religion even though technically it isnt a religion. What you just said shows alot of bad towards atheism and it seems to me sugar that you hold atheism close to you as if it was a religion.
atheism is lack of religion so its not a religion.

i dont believe in fairy tales, theres no magical being from up in the clouds looking down on us, i have no soul and neither do you and if you seem to think you do please show me where its at and make a believer out of me. show me god and ill believe

open your mind, think for your self dont let some book written by men thousands of years ago think for you.

[F L E S H]

You can't compare religious people to atheists, that is the entire basis of our objecti0ns, we're not like you. We don't believe, we don't have faith, because there's nothing to believe in but what's in front of us, and what's insinde of us; our potential.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Define: Religion

# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
# an institution to express belief in a divine power



If an atheist denies the supernatural, how is it anything like religion? I'd say its more of a belief. You can't compare religion and atheism simply because they are both beliefs. Lots of things are beliefs and you can't just lump shit up like that. Doesn't work.
religion was fairly well defined.

and athiesm is fairly well defined as a religion that is anti-religion.

# a strong belief in the lack of any supernatural power, or powers that controll human destiny
# a disorgonized institution that expresses it's strong belief that there is no divine power.

[F L E S H]

religion was fairly well defined.

and athiesm is fairly well defined as a religion that is anti-religion.

# a strong belief in the lack of any supernatural power, or powers that controll human destiny
# a disorgonized institution that expresses it's strong belief that there is no divine power.
I JUST said that atheism is not a "religion". Right there, just above your post...

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

if you do not believe, if you have no faith, then why do you believe that there is no god, and have faith that god does not exist?

[Oneironaut]

Why do you believe that round squares do not exist? The popular idea of God contains self-contradictory traits, things which could not exist in the same being. For example, omnipotence and omniscience. How could a being be all-knowing and at the same time all-powerful? If God knows everything he's going to do in the future, he does not have the power to change his mind. If he has the power to change his mind, he does not know what he is going to do in the future.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

that is circular logic isnt it?


omni means all, god CAN see his future actions, and god CAN change his mind.

knowing the future puts us at risk for CHANGING the future, so every time god changed his mind, he'd see a new future. and would continually change his mind untill he saw the future he wanted.

[Oneironaut]

But doesn't he already know ahead of time which future it is that he's going to choose?

[Oneironaut]

But doesn't he already know ahead of time which future it is that he's going to choose? Didn't he see, billions of years ago, all these things which in the present lead him to change his mind? Didn't he also know at that time what the best solution would be, that is, what future he would choose?

[stothelutz]

^ True that. I think god is your consciousness and the devil is death.

[sugarmagnolia]

stoner shadow wolf- atheism is unquestionably a lack of a religion. It is not a religion because there are no set rules for being what one would call an atheist. It is merely not placing judgement on what can not be proven. It is perfectly logical, it is like not placing a blind bet in a poker game because you are not sure whether you will win or not.

People should really watch who they call close-minded to prevent from looking like a retard. The narrow-mindedness of a person does not depend on their set of beliefs or lack of beliefs, it depends on their character.

[Oneironaut]

True. If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

But doesn't he already know ahead of time which future it is that he's going to choose? Didn't he see, billions of years ago, all these things which in the present lead him to change his mind? Didn't he also know at that time what the best solution would be, that is, what future he would choose?yes, omniscence is instant, in an instant, 400 billion mind changes can occour, and 400 billion futures can be percieved.


however, you have to actively USE an ability, they arent passive, has to TRY to use his omniscence to see.

so it is understandable that there could be a lapse in omniscence, just as there may be lapses in omnipotence.


humans were created during a lapse in omniscence.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

stoner shadow wolf- atheism is unquestionably a lack of a religion. It is not a religion because there are no set rules for being what one would call an atheist. It is merely not placing judgement on what can not be proven. It is perfectly logical, it is like not placing a blind bet in a poker game because you are not sure whether you will win or not.

People should really watch who they call close-minded to prevent from looking like a retard. The narrow-mindedness of a person does not depend on their set of beliefs or lack of beliefs, it depends on their character.
hmm, aiighty, atheism isnt a religion, but it operates very much like religion, just with completely opposite beliefs, belief that there is no god, belief that there is no afterlife.


it still comes down to beliefs. yes, granted, atheism revolves around proof, but that is putting faith into what you can immediately see, hear, smell, touch, and taste. it is too confined not to be religious. your god is science. though you would never treat it in the same manner as christians...

oh wait!

[Oneironaut]

yes, omniscence is instant, in an instant, 400 billion mind changes can occour, and 400 billion futures can be percieved.


however, you have to actively USE an ability, they arent passive, has to TRY to use his omniscence to see.

so it is understandable that there could be a lapse in omniscence, just as there may be lapses in omnipotence.


humans were created during a lapse in omniscence.
Huh? :confused:

Well, even if your God isn't fully omniscient or omnipotent, it still doesn't change the fact that there isn't any evidence whatsoever that it exists. You'd think if something had infinite power and was intervening in human affairs on a daily basis that there would be some conclusive evidence somewhere, wouldn't you? Why doesn't he come out and say "Hey everybody, this is God. Stop fighting over religions because I am here to clear everything up..."?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

ahhhhahahahahaha :D god does not interfere. we've been abandoned and left for dead. if we cannot survive, then we were never worth it in the first place.


god is forcing us to evolve or go extinct.


that is what earth was all along; an experiment to create physical life which can live as god.


but if god TELLS us how or even reveals himself, we will fail, as we will not have acquired omnipotency and omniscence on our own duing, if god has any intervention, we are no longer beings of free will.

[Oneironaut]

So if God has not revealed himself, how can you be so sure that he exists? Where did you get this information about his existence?

[MoonStarer420]

...then you probably believe in nothing.

I'm pretty sure thats a nihilist, not an atheist.

I'm an atheist because of my open mind. I used to be methodist, but God never made any sense to me. I tried living "with" and "without" a god, but in the end I saw no diffrence in how the world treated me. So I decided that It didn't really matter wheather I did or didn't.

I guess what I "belive" in now is science. But it's not so mush as a belief, but more of a curiosity of how the universe works. I think religion is a compleate waste of time because it has no real life value.


evolution shouldn't be a option because it has more faults then any kind of religion

I don't know what faults your talking about, evolution is a very well supported theory. It acually has the ability to be studied and proved. (well it is proved, thats why it's a theory, not a hypothesis.) You can't say that about any religion. You can't prove the existance of God, and don't talk about intellegent design or that the complexity of life proves his existance. That stuff is bullshit pushed forward by creationists.

[Oneironaut]

I am really quite ashamed to live in a country where half of the population rejects such basic scientific knowledge as the theory of evolution, the foundation of all modern biology. I mean, this is supposed to be the most technological nation in the world, and the masses are completely ignorant of science. It's quite a sad situation, and it can only lead to disaster if we keep this up. If you want to figure out how the universe works, put down your Bible and look at all the magnificent things there are to experience in the real world. Let me tell you, the magnificence of what's really out there and what we've really uncovered about the history of the cosmos are far grander than any religious mythology could ever provide.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

So if God has not revealed himself, how can you be so sure that he exists? Where did you get this information about his existence?dont get me wrong, the idea of god was first introduced when i was very young, but i havent gone to church since i was 5.
i have never really agreed with the religious BS i always hear about god, but because they all seem to know of it, there must have been SOMETHING that inspired them.

i philosophised constnatly around the time i was 11, i stopped believing in anything, i questioned everything, (i lost my hearing) while constantly learning about basic crap math and some science. i never gave 2 shits about history or english (probably why i dont convey myself too great half the time) and slept through those either in deep thought, or just bored shitless.

i finally came to, so to speak, and started researching stuff online... meditation, chakras, psi/ki/chi/etc. and after a lot of reading forums, most of which led nowhere, or banned me, i found a lot of helpful wisdom.

i figured, even if christ wasnt real, he was a story based on true reality, if not a prophecy.

and once i came th this conclusion, i began to focus on thoughts, and my mind, i philosophised different facts of the brain, but nothing ever matched up logically. i tried adding the chakras to it, but that didnt lead me far... i finally decided to take in spiritual aspects, and it startred making a little more sense... as i did not actually take any religious ideas into it, i basically invented it myself off of the native american understanding that all things are spirit. this led into the elements among many other things, and interlaced the universe into a common equality. i finally deciphered the mind into three "houses" of consciousness, which is misinterpreted by a combo. of freud and the church.

the holy trinity is the conscious, subconscious, and superconsciousness.
ego, soul, spirit

our sleeping superconscious is largely locked away in our genes. we spend WAY too much time and effort neglecting our bodies, when, in fact, we should be doing heavy workouts and meditations, relying on the bare minimum of needs. food and water.
farming a simple herb garden and whatever else (i dont know the exact plants that are needed in a 'vegan' diet)


I am really quite ashamed to live in a country where half of the population rejects such basic scientific knowledge as the theory of evolution, the foundation of all modern biology. I mean, this is supposed to be the most technological nation in the world, and the masses are completely ignorant of science. It's quite a sad situation, and it can only lead to disaster if we keep this up. If you want to figure out how the universe works, put down your Bible and look at all the magnificent things there are to experience in the real world. Let me tell you, the magnificence of what's really out there and what we've really uncovered about the history of the cosmos are far grander than any religious mythology could ever provide.
yes, it's true that there are many amazing and amazingly abstract technologies we are not even aware we can use right now.

there are even- shit... i lost my thoughts *toke* :stoned:


craptrfuckl damn :(


aaanyways... um... we have access to Zero Point energy... which can make an everlasting amount of energy, we can make so many things that the corperations are stealing from us.

they are copywriting basic things that we can use to get every need and want, for free.


this is a system that mirrors monarchy only in spread out areas...



look at it, the corperations are all over the place, in their "territory".

feeding money to the government in taxes, who has split the land into thousands of territories. (districts, area codes, states, if we properly evened the flow of power to every county was like a seperate federal gov't. we could have pot legalized in one county, but not in the next.)

corperate power is a mass monarchy (it does not work).


and as for evolution, it's quite obvious, given that even the bible says that 1 day in the hevens (the astral, or psychic bond) is 1000 years on earth.

that proves that it took at least 6000 years to make earth.

i, however, think that the people either fudged, or lied, or misinterpreted 1,000,000,000.

lol but that's just my gut feeling on the matter.

so let's say im right, that means the earth was 7,000,000,000 years old before "satan" defiled it.

which makes humanity a lot older than humans first believed.

it is from that perspective of mine that i decide that for 1 billion years, humans were gods.

and in a short amount of time (years passed like days with their godly paitence) their new king (now that god's done resting) defiled them and locked their divinity in their genes, deep in the bones.

LEADING BACK TO THE POINT... :stoned:


we were powerless and fordced to rely on our dwindling divine wisdom and create utopia.
using zero point technologies, far more advanced than we can currently comprehend (without an open mind [or a copy of secret of mana :eek:])
and as generations evolved, vast prejudicies were formed against 'other kin' such as dragons, and vampires. [keep an open mind shhhh, shshshshshhhh]
as the 'human superiors' evolved and wiped out their otherkin, they started slaying the dionsaurs with magic. hahaha look at that, we were also evolving a lot de evolving from using mana and the psi, but evolving to forever shed our fur and become fat, and lazy, and rely on nature... under our thumbs, to get what we want, when all along, nature is no different than us.




i got high, im sirry i made a super über fucked up post, but hey, i guess... whatever... lol

[Toothpick]

I don't know what faults your talking about, evolution is a very well supported theory. It acually has the ability to be studied and proved. (well it is proved, thats why it's a theory, not a hypothesis.) You can't say that about any religion. You can't prove the existance of God, and don't talk about intellegent design or that the complexity of life proves his existance. That stuff is bullshit pushed forward by creationists.
Im sorry to say this but evolution is more faulty then any religion. That makes it very obvious that you havnt even barely looked at evolution from both sides. Their are many questions that you might ask about any religion about how it works such as where did God come from and just because you dont have the answers doesnt mean you proved that God doesnt exist. However evolution has so many faults that have been proven that it is impossible. If you ask me atheism and religion have their own points but that part of atheism called evolution is down right retarded.

[CocaCola]

In God We Trust

Don't worry guys... Don't worry about ANNNYTHING. Cause everything will be OK. Because God is up there... waching us... Ahhh, thank you lord for keeping me wrapped in thy warmest blanket.


Im sorry to say this but evolution is more faulty then any religion. That makes it very obvious that you havnt even barely looked at evolution from both sides. Their are many questions that you might ask about any religion about how it works such as where did God come from and just because you dont have the answers doesnt mean you proved that God doesnt exist. However evolution has so many faults that have been proven that it is impossible. If you ask me atheism and religion have their own points but that part of atheism called evolution is down right retarded.

Yep... you're right. Evolution is ludicrous! We didn't evolved from animals or anything! WE WERE PLACED DOWN ON EARTH FROM GOD! You know, that guy... That guy up in heaven. Yeah...

God is a very abstract subject. Trying to define God is like trying to define love. I beleive that we are all a stream of conciousness, myself... but feel free to try and prove me wrong. As my belief has no evidence to back it up.

[Toothpick]

? Sorry but your sarcasm didnt hurt my feelings but it did make me laugh!

[Oneironaut]

Im sorry to say this but evolution is more faulty then any religion. That makes it very obvious that you havnt even barely looked at evolution from both sides. Their are many questions that you might ask about any religion about how it works such as where did God come from and just because you dont have the answers doesnt mean you proved that God doesnt exist.
And just because we don't know where the universe came from does not mean that God made it.

However evolution has so many faults that have been proven that it is impossible.
Name one. Just one. Even if you did find something which modern scientific theory hasn't been able to explain yet, it doesn't prove that evolution is flawed. There's just so much evidence in its favor that something very close to our modern understanding of evolution is going on. If there was any "proof" it was wrong, the scientific community would have abandoned it long ago. Scientists are always looking for proof of new and better theories to explain the universe. But I have not seen one single shred of evidence which points to an alternative explanation for the origins of life.

If you ask me atheism and religion have their own points but that part of atheism called evolution is down right retarded.
Retarded? Could you provide an alternative explanation for the fossil record? Why do we see skeletons of homo australopithecus, homo habilis, homo erectus, and then homo sapiens in the fossil record? And why, when we do radio-carbon dating on them, do they seem to follow a sequence, as if one came after the other? Why does the fossil record come in "layers" with simpler creatures on the bottom in the oldest layers and more advanced creatures in the newer layers? Did God just make it look like evolution happened to trick us?

[Oneironaut]

and as for evolution, it's quite obvious, given that even the bible says that 1 day in the hevens (the astral, or psychic bond) is 1000 years on earth.

that proves that it took at least 6000 years to make earth.
No, it "proves" nothing more than any creation myth of any culture. Some cultures say the world was hatched from an egg, but that doesn't prove that the world actually hatched from an egg.

i, however, think that the people either fudged, or lied, or misinterpreted 1,000,000,000.
I think that people could not have possibly known their history 1,000,000,000 years into the past. They didn't even have a word for "billion" back then. Was somebody counting the billions of years? Or did the God who never reveals anything about himself tell the writers of the Bible?

lol but that's just my gut feeling on the matter.

so let's say im right, that means the earth was 7,000,000,000 years old before "satan" defiled it.
Well, if we want to put down the ancient books and actually look at the scientific evidence, we find that the Earth is about 4,500,000,000 years old. I don't know about you, but to me dating rocks is a much more reliable method of finding out the age of the Earth than reinterpreting ancient books in which ancient peoples wrote down how old they thought it was.


which makes humanity a lot older than humans first believed.
But we only have human fossils dating back 100,000 or 200,000 years. If you can find some 7,000,000,000 year old human fossils, well, that would be something!

it is from that perspective of mine that i decide that for 1 billion years, humans were gods.
And where's your proof? Or did you just pull this right out of your ass again?

and in a short amount of time (years passed like days with their godly paitence) their new king (now that god's done resting) defiled them and locked their divinity in their genes, deep in the bones.
This is where it gets into things so ridiculous I'm not even going to bother with them.

[thcbongman]

[QUOTE=Oneironaut]
Name one. Just one. Even if you did find something which modern scientific theory hasn't been able to explain yet, it doesn't prove that evolution is flawed. QUOTE]

The major flaw of evolution is you can't apply Bacon Scientific Method to it's principles. Still, evolution is the best explaination so far. People forget it's a theory, but the most scrutinized theory. It deserves it merit.

I don't understand how people can be atheist. How do you not feel spirituality in life? The balance of mind, body and soul simply can't be explained in a science book. It takes a little faith as well.

[Oneironaut]

The major flaw of evolution is you can't apply Bacon Scientific Method to it's principles. Still, evolution is the best explaination so far. People forget it's a theory, but the most scrutinized theory. It deserves it merit.
When you speak about the "theory" of evolution it is important to realize that the scientific definition of "theory" is not the same as the way the word is used in everyday conversation. A theory is not just a guess as to how things might have happened, but a model of how the world works that is backed up by data. Theories can never be proven 100% true, but with many theories, such as evolution, we can show that they're extremely likely. There really is no other real scientific theory about how life came to be. There's "intelligent design", but that's not scientific at all since it doesn't make any falsifiable statements and doesn't correct itself according to the data. It's really more of a game to see how many holes they can punch into the prevailing theory — they don't actually make any predictions about what we should find in the future or present any models for how life came to be. They just say "God did it" and give the matter no more thought.

I don't understand how people can be atheist. How do you not feel spirituality in life? The balance of mind, body and soul simply can't be explained in a science book. It takes a little faith as well.
What do you mean by "spirituality", or the "balance of mind, body and soul", and why can such things exist only if there is a deity or deities? I just haven't ever experienced anything which would suggest to me that there is a God or many gods out there. There's nothing in my life that is only explainable in terms of gods. Whatever they are. Hardly anybody is willing to tell me what gods are supposed to be in the first place, and those who do have widely divergent definitions. When somebody can sit me down, explain to me what gods are and what the evidence is that shows beyond a doubt that such things exist, I will incorporate them into my worldview. In the meantime, I live a very happy and fulfilling life in which I only assume the existence of things which can be shown to exist.

[F L E S H]

Hmmm... Electricity is "only" a theory, nobody's ever seen any electrons go anywhere... So how can we be sure it exists? I say it's secular propaganda.

Gravity is "only" a theory, I think it is the almighty hand of God that keeps on Earth.

Relativity is "only" a theory... The foundation of all modern physics is just some Jew's plot to take over the world...


How does that sound? That what people who don't "believe" in evolution (it's not a faith, it's science) sound like to me.

[Toothpick]

And just because we don't know where the universe came from does not mean that God made it.

Name one. Just one. Even if you did find something which modern scientific theory hasn't been able to explain yet, it doesn't prove that evolution is flawed. There's just so much evidence in its favor that something very close to our modern understanding of evolution is going on. If there was any "proof" it was wrong, the scientific community would have abandoned it long ago. Scientists are always looking for proof of new and better theories to explain the universe. But I have not seen one single shred of evidence which points to an alternative explanation for the origins of life.

Retarded? Could you provide an alternative explanation for the fossil record? Why do we see skeletons of homo australopithecus, homo habilis, homo erectus, and then homo sapiens in the fossil record? And why, when we do radio-carbon dating on them, do they seem to follow a sequence, as if one came after the other? Why does the fossil record come in "layers" with simpler creatures on the bottom in the oldest layers and more advanced creatures in the newer layers? Did God just make it look like evolution happened to trick us?


Their is faults many I watched 9 two hour movies about it. Did you know that they found a fossilized cowboy boot thatwas 50-60 years old. If you want proof then I could send you a video about it or give you a number that you can call.

[Toothpick]

I recall some one talking about how God has no beginning or end which is retarded I hate to say it but evolution preeches that their is no beggining or end to the universe every so many trillions of years the big bang happens an everything gets sucked into a lil dot then some time later the big bang happens again.

[Not Enough Herb]

god and religion was created by "superioirs" as a way of life.

thats all the bible is, a way a life

there is no god, y would our creater never do anything, just watch us die and suffer

u bible huggers tell us that its all faith

BULL SHIT





BULLSHIT!

evolution makes more sense then anything out there.

the only thing i think is flawed about evolution is the fact everythihng was created by gases. id like to no where the gases came from. and what created those and so on, this question will never be answered.

i think well never no y or how we were put here because were all going to blow eachother to shit longbefore we have the technology to find out.

Maybe there is an afterlife? maybe this is just a test, like everything we learn we take into our next life. maybe we go to the spiritworld, maybe were alien clones, the possiblity's are endless. but were all to absorbed in our pointless daily routines to ever find this out.

later

[Oneironaut]

Their is faults many I watched 9 two hour movies about it. Did you know that they found a fossilized cowboy boot thatwas 50-60 years old. If you want proof then I could send you a video about it or give you a number that you can call.
Sorry, "I watched a video about it" isn't enough. If the theory of evolution really is full of holes, you should be able to remember at least one of those holes and be able to tell me what it is. I am perfectly aware that there are creationist videos out there, but so far none of them have convinced me (yes, I have actually listened to what these people have to say).

What does this fossilized cowboy boot have to do with anything?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

No, it "proves" nothing more than any creation myth of any culture. Some cultures say the world was hatched from an egg, but that doesn't prove that the world actually hatched from an egg.

I think that people could not have possibly known their history 1,000,000,000 years into the past. They didn't even have a word for "billion" back then. Was somebody counting the billions of years? Or did the God who never reveals anything about himself tell the writers of the Bible?

Well, if we want to put down the ancient books and actually look at the scientific evidence, we find that the Earth is about 4,500,000,000 years old. I don't know about you, but to me dating rocks is a much more reliable method of finding out the age of the Earth than reinterpreting ancient books in which ancient peoples wrote down how old they thought it was.


But we only have human fossils dating back 100,000 or 200,000 years. If you can find some 7,000,000,000 year old human fossils, well, that would be something!

And where's your proof? Or did you just pull this right out of your ass again?

This is where it gets into things so ridiculous I'm not even going to bother with them.

aiieyaaa.....



alright.

working backwards, pull your head out of your ass. (insult met with insult)

i believe there was a PBS special, or History Channel thing... something on TV, that documented a million or half a million year old corpse, and as for dating rocks, how do you determine the age of molten rock? the age of the earth must be determined from the inside out, such as the tree trunk's rings, and i am quite certian, unless you'd like to prove me wrong, that we have never reached the core with any tools yet, im sure we havent even dug half way down into the earth yet, so how can they know old old this old rock really is?

and doubling back, how do you know that there arent any 7 million year old corpses just below our reach?


also, 1 million years in the past, we did not need history, and were rapidly devolving into an ignorance to develope it.

history was origonally useless if we were gods, and if we de evolved, it's logical that history (let alone technology) would later be developed.


as for that proving anything, i was thinking more along the lines of how it closer matched what science has proven so far... given that the bible misinterpreted billion.

it shows that we had an accurate understanding of the age of the earth before there was technology that could provide such knowledge.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

wooh thread's deeper in than i though lol


weed, evolution is a product of the LACK of a god's interferance, yes, but that is ALSO our LESSON.

we need to EVOLVE into the CONSCIOUSNESS of god.



our minds were 100% in the begining.


they MIGHT be 10% now.

[Oneironaut]

aiieyaaa.....



alright.

working backwards, pull your head out of your ass. (insult met with insult)

i believe there was a PBS special, or History Channel thing... something on TV, that documented a million or half a million year old corpse, and as for dating rocks, how do you determine the age of molten rock? the age of the earth must be determined from the inside out, such as the tree trunk's rings, and i am quite certian, unless you'd like to prove me wrong, that we have never reached the core with any tools yet, im sure we havent even dug half way down into the earth yet, so how can they know old old this old rock really is?
I'm not going to get into the details of rock-dating, but check this out if you want to know how we estimate the age of the Earth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth


and doubling back, how do you know that there arent any 7 million year old corpses just below our reach?
I said 7 billion, not 7 million. We haven't found any hominids more than a few hundred thousand years old, or any primates more than a few dozen million years old, or any mammals more than a couple hundred million years old. Multicellular life itself is only about 500-600 million years old. It seems extremely unlikely that we're going to find anatomically modern humans that are 14 times as old as the first multicellular organisms and over twice the age of the solar system.



also, 1 million years in the past, we did not need history, and were rapidly devolving into an ignorance to develope it.
One million years ago, we probably couldn't even conceive of such a thing as "history" because we were still primitive primates.


history was origonally useless if we were gods, and if we de evolved, it's logical that history (let alone technology) would later be developed.
There is not one shred of evidence for your "we used to be gods" hypothesis. If you can provide me with some, maybe I'll entertain such speculations.


as for that proving anything, i was thinking more along the lines of how it closer matched what science has proven so far... given that the bible misinterpreted billion.
The Bible does not correlate with the historical record in any way more than could be attributed to the knowledge of a pre-scientific people with some vague ideas about their history.


it shows that we had an accurate understanding of the age of the earth before there was technology that could provide such knowledge.
You have proven nothing of the sort. The universe is not 6,000 years old or 7,000,000,000 years old. The Bible was just plain wrong about the origins of the universe, because they could not have possibly known how it happened.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

im sure the bible was flat out wrong about the origions of the universe it never meantioned teh origions of our galaxy and it's rather vague about the solar system, but it's telling of the age of the earth is likely accurate, and the surface opf the earth is the youngest part of it, and minerals that were likely carried up in volcanic eruptions dont really give us conclusive evidence as to the age of the earth itself, and the ages are still assumptions at best, and are no more or less credible than the bible, not that i give the bible much credit to begin with.

[ADaisyChain]

SSW, here's the thing, the bible says alotta made up stuff. im sure you recognize that. But rock dating does have alot more credebility then some guy taking a guess thousands of years ago.

To deny that is extremely INTENTIONALLY ignorant.

Some science is exact, some science is very close, and some science is just hope.

Rock dating happens to fall into the very close category.

Keep it REEAAAL man. You can make stuff up and all, but stop when it starts to contradict the things we KNOW.

peas. ^.^

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

im "making stuff up" in accordance to two presumptious and theoretical sources:

religion and science.


im picking them apart and putting them back together again in a logical manner (at least to me, and it would take knowing everything i do to udnerstand the logic i guess, and i dont thnk we have 50000 pages of space, and i dont have the time to write and proof read my mind).


taking comparasons between science "the earth is very old" and religion "the earth was made in 7 days".

and given that rock dating only falls under the "very close" catagory, (and not the exact) i think it is safe to say that the bible was correct but mathmatically inaccurate, and science is only close, but mathmatically accurate.


so combining the two, i come up with the earth is VERY OLD in a parrellell to 6.

it took 6 million or billion years just to make the earth. looping back to the bible saying (this is hearsay mind you, i dont know what the bible says or does not say, i never read it) that 1000 years on earth is 1 day in heven.

im inclined bo believe this is accurate at best, and that the true number would have to (scientificly) logically be more closer to million or billion.

and perhaps you have forgotten, but i will remind you:

true wisdom lies in knowing you KNOW nothing.


you cannot ever rely on anything and expect it to be true or real, somewhere along the line, something will contradict something else that we "know".

humans think, they do not know. and therefore we can only think we know.

of course, when you truly know, you wont think you know; you'll KNOW you know.

it's pronounced k'now now. lol :D

[CocaCola]

Meh... no one will ever be convinced otherwise about their beliefs... so lets just say that yeah... THERE IS A GOD AND IT CREATED EVERYTHING. It wasn't gases... it wasn't physics... wtf is physics, A LIE that is what it is... no no no, everything is controlled by the HAND OF GOD. That's what it is. And invisable hand that spins the Earth around it's orbit and that plants seeds to grow trees to give us air to breath but wait, maybe air doesn't exist! MAYBE IT'S GOD BREATH THAT WE BREATH! YES, THAT'S IT! I HAVE THE ANSWER!!

[Oneironaut]

im sure the bible was flat out wrong about the origions of the universe it never meantioned teh origions of our galaxy and it's rather vague about the solar system, but it's telling of the age of the earth is likely accurate, and the surface opf the earth is the youngest part of it, and minerals that were likely carried up in volcanic eruptions dont really give us conclusive evidence as to the age of the earth itself, and the ages are still assumptions at best, and are no more or less credible than the bible, not that i give the bible much credit to begin with.
How could the Bible possibly know such things? I mean, if a people had such extensive knowledge of their history to know the actual age of the Earth, why couldn't they write it down right? Where's the evidence that the Earth really is 7 billion years old? If we can't know this information now, how could people thousands of years ago know it? Did God break his rule of not revealing himself? If so, why didn't he correct anybody when they wrote down the wrong number?

[CocaCola]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

^^^

[Oneironaut]

taking comparasons between science "the earth is very old" and religion "the earth was made in 7 days".
How far are you willing to take this analogy? If a "day" is really a billion years long, and this is what the Bible is describing, you would have the history of the earth looking something like this:
7,000,000,000-6,000,000,000 years ago: the "heaven", the earth and light come into existence
6,000,000,000-5,000,000,000 years ago: "Heaven" is invented (a different one from the first one, apparently)
5,000,000,000-4,000,000,000 years ago: the first landmasses are formed, as well as plants
4,000,000,000-3,000,000,000 years ago: the stars, the Sun and the Moon are invented
3,000,000,000-2,000,000,000 years ago: birds and water animals come into existence
2,000,000,000-1,000,000,000 years ago: land animals come into existence, including humans
1,000,000,000 years ago-now: God rests

Now obviously that's not how things actually happened. Plants could not have possibly existed for a billion years before the Sun existed, for example. Birds evolved from land animals, and the whale, which was supposedly created with the other water animals, also evolved from land animals. The first stars are much older than the Earth. All elements heavier than hydrogen and helium come from stars. That's how they got here. It's ridiculous to state that the Earth, almost exclusively made out of such heavier elements, was the only thing in the universe for the first 3 billion years of existence.

and given that rock dating only falls under the "very close" catagory, (and not the exact) i think it is safe to say that the bible was correct but mathmatically inaccurate, and science is only close, but mathmatically accurate.
How is it that they could screw up the actual history of the planet so much yet get the date right (only they accidentally wrote thousand where they meant billion)? Did humans keep time for billions of years? Did they keep a calendar system for billions of years and yet not carve anything about it into any rocks anywhere that we've been able to find? Why is it that they maintained a low-tech society for 7 billion years and only in the past 10,000 years developed civilization? Or have there been previous civilizations that didn't leave any archaeological evidence whatsoever? If you're going to state that the human race is as old as the Earth and the Earth is 7,000,000,000 years old, you have a lot of explaining to do to explain why the historical record doesn't make this obvious to us.


so combining the two, i come up with the earth is VERY OLD in a parrellell to 6.

it took 6 million or billion years just to make the earth. looping back to the bible saying (this is hearsay mind you, i dont know what the bible says or does not say, i never read it) that 1000 years on earth is 1 day in heven.
Where do you get this information? You admit that you don't give the Bible much credit, yet you're using it to determine the date of the universe over known science? And then you're trying to state that the Bible got the dates wrong. That's gotta be the weirdest form of Creationism I've ever heard of. And you're not even trying to make it fit into how old we know the Earth is. How do you know the Earth is 6 million or 6 billion years old? Again, I think you're just making stuff up.

im inclined bo believe this is accurate at best, and that the true number would have to (scientificly) logically be more closer to million or billion.
Scientifically? Where's the science here? You're just making guesses without substantiating them. That's not science. The earth is obviously more than 6,000 years old, but there's no evidence to suggest it's 6 million or 6 billion years old. Why is the Bible any more correct than any other culture's creation myth regarding this? Lots of different cultures have lots of different dates for the age of the planet, you know. And I bet you could come up with theories about how they "accidentally misinterpreted" the real date that they had spent so much effort into recording as the eons went by. Think about it. You're proposing that people kept track of how much time passed for 6 million or 6 billion years, without a trace of such a calendar system surviving, except for one date in an ancient book which was written wrong for some reason. Why didn't they say "The universe is 6,025,687 years old" or something like that? If they were able to keep track of how old the universe was so accurately for so many years, why did they suddenly screw it up at the last minute?


and perhaps you have forgotten, but i will remind you:

true wisdom lies in knowing you KNOW nothing.

you cannot ever rely on anything and expect it to be true or real, somewhere along the line, something will contradict something else that we "know".
So? That doesn't mean we just need to throw out what we know whenever somebody else comes up with an alternative hypothesis. We need to base our beliefs on facts and only change them when facts show that our original explanation is no longer the most plausible. When somebody comes up with a wacky idea that runs in the face of common sense and provides no evidence to back it up, it's safe to ignore it for better substantiated theories.

humans think, they do not know. and therefore we can only think we know.

of course, when you truly know, you wont think you know; you'll KNOW you know.

it's pronounced k'now now. lol :D
Nothing can be proven 100%. But we can get close. And the fields of geology and cosmology have determined the age of the planet and the universe to a much more accurate extent than a layman making guesses based on an ancient text he hasn't even read.

[CocaCola]

Wisdom lies in learning, man... knowing is the other part afterwards. None of us here knows what is truly up otherwise we would be arguing about it. Stoner Wolf, no... YOU'RE WRONG. Just as anyone else... to say otherwise proves that you bible humping Jesus freaks are... funny.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

How far are you willing to take this analogy? If a "day" is really a billion years long, and this is what the Bible is describing, you would have the history of the earth looking something like this:
7,000,000,000-6,000,000,000 years ago: the "heaven", the earth and light come into existence
6,000,000,000-5,000,000,000 years ago: "Heaven" is invented (a different one from the first one, apparently)
5,000,000,000-4,000,000,000 years ago: the first landmasses are formed, as well as plants
4,000,000,000-3,000,000,000 years ago: the stars, the Sun and the Moon are invented
3,000,000,000-2,000,000,000 years ago: birds and water animals come into existence
2,000,000,000-1,000,000,000 years ago: land animals come into existence, including humans
1,000,000,000 years ago-now: God rests

Now obviously that's not how things actually happened. Plants could not have possibly existed for a billion years before the Sun existed, for example. Birds evolved from land animals, and the whale, which was supposedly created with the other water animals, also evolved from land animals. The first stars are much older than the Earth. All elements heavier than hydrogen and helium come from stars. That's how they got here. It's ridiculous to state that the Earth, almost exclusively made out of such heavier elements, was the only thing in the universe for the first 3 billion years of existence.

How is it that they could screw up the actual history of the planet so much yet get the date right (only they accidentally wrote thousand where they meant billion)? Did humans keep time for billions of years? Did they keep a calendar system for billions of years and yet not carve anything about it into any rocks anywhere that we've been able to find? Why is it that they maintained a low-tech society for 7 billion years and only in the past 10,000 years developed civilization? Or have there been previous civilizations that didn't leave any archaeological evidence whatsoever? If you're going to state that the human race is as old as the Earth and the Earth is 7,000,000,000 years old, you have a lot of explaining to do to explain why the historical record doesn't make this obvious to us.


Where do you get this information? You admit that you don't give the Bible much credit, yet you're using it to determine the date of the universe over known science? And then you're trying to state that the Bible got the dates wrong. That's gotta be the weirdest form of Creationism I've ever heard of. And you're not even trying to make it fit into how old we know the Earth is. How do you know the Earth is 6 million or 6 billion years old? Again, I think you're just making stuff up.

Scientifically? Where's the science here? You're just making guesses without substantiating them. That's not science. The earth is obviously more than 6,000 years old, but there's no evidence to suggest it's 6 million or 6 billion years old. Why is the Bible any more correct than any other culture's creation myth regarding this? Lots of different cultures have lots of different dates for the age of the planet, you know. And I bet you could come up with theories about how they "accidentally misinterpreted" the real date that they had spent so much effort into recording as the eons went by. Think about it. You're proposing that people kept track of how much time passed for 6 million or 6 billion years, without a trace of such a calendar system surviving, except for one date in an ancient book which was written wrong for some reason. Why didn't they say "The universe is 6,025,687 years old" or something like that? If they were able to keep track of how old the universe was so accurately for so many years, why did they suddenly screw it up at the last minute?


So? That doesn't mean we just need to throw out what we know whenever somebody else comes up with an alternative hypothesis. We need to base our beliefs on facts and only change them when facts show that our original explanation is no longer the most plausible. When somebody comes up with a wacky idea that runs in the face of common sense and provides no evidence to back it up, it's safe to ignore it for better substantiated theories.

Nothing can be proven 100%. But we can get close. And the fields of geology and cosmology have determined the age of the planet and the universe to a much more accurate extent than a layman making guesses based on an ancient text he hasn't even read.i am working on tidbits. keeping a .txt notepad open and trying to unload my mind on it.


in about a month, i might have something ready to be read, untill then, it's not going to help me to try to explain anything, because every time i explain one aspect of reality, it opens up more questions based on the relation it has to do with science and history.


and you'd have to take to what i said to answer some of your own questions lol.


we never NEEDED history, because we were de-evolving from GODS.

and the bible is largely inaccurate too, mostly in chronology and mathmatics.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Wisdom lies in learning, man... knowing is the other part afterwards. None of us here knows what is truly up otherwise we would be arguing about it. Stoner Wolf, no... YOU'RE WRONG. Just as anyone else... to say otherwise proves that you bible humping Jesus freaks are... funny.KNOWLEDGE comes from learning, WISDOM comes from EXPERIANCE.


to learn is to know.

though your knowledge is mostly useless untill you learn HOW TO USE IT. and even then, that can allude to a false sence of wisdom.

especcially when one forgets that true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.

[CocaCola]

No, knowlage comes from experience... and learning comes from wisdom. I'm not going to explain it to you because you'll just twist my words around. So it's ok, whatever.

Actually, you just explained it yourself... Wisdom comes from knowing that you don't know anything.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

erg... *sigh* wisdom is a higher consciousness than learning and "knowing". learning doesnt change wisdom, 'knowing' doesnt change wisdom, and in fact, is somewhat the opposite of true wisdom.

wisdom applies even after learning something; you still know nothing of it, no matter how much you learn about anything, you will never know anything about it, or there will always be something you dont know about it.

[ADaisyChain]

im "making stuff up" in accordance to two presumptious and theoretical sources:

religion and science.


im picking them apart and putting them back together again in a logical manner (at least to me, and it would take knowing everything i do to udnerstand the logic i guess, and i dont thnk we have 50000 pages of space, and i dont have the time to write and proof read my mind).


taking comparasons between science "the earth is very old" and religion "the earth was made in 7 days".

and given that rock dating only falls under the "very close" catagory, (and not the exact) i think it is safe to say that the bible was correct but mathmatically inaccurate, and science is only close, but mathmatically accurate.


so combining the two, i come up with the earth is VERY OLD in a parrellell to 6.

it took 6 million or billion years just to make the earth. looping back to the bible saying (this is hearsay mind you, i dont know what the bible says or does not say, i never read it) that 1000 years on earth is 1 day in heven.

im inclined bo believe this is accurate at best, and that the true number would have to (scientificly) logically be more closer to million or billion.

and perhaps you have forgotten, but i will remind you:

true wisdom lies in knowing you KNOW nothing.


you cannot ever rely on anything and expect it to be true or real, somewhere along the line, something will contradict something else that we "know".

humans think, they do not know. and therefore we can only think we know.

of course, when you truly know, you wont think you know; you'll KNOW you know.

it's pronounced k'now now. lol :D

Just so you k'now, you contradict yourself everywhere.

You claim we can't k'now anything and then you correct people? You claim there is no right or wrong and then you tell people they're wrong. ((this one is important, so pay attention)) And then you try and tell me what wisdom is (thus implying you know) and say we k'now nothing, and that wisdom is k'nowing you k'now nothing.

If that's your take on wisdom (its a good one, don't get me wrong, i like it alot) then k'now you don't even k'now what wisdom is, and that you don't k'now when the earth was made, but the people who actually look into it probably k'now more then you on that particular subject.

So don't tell me what wisdom is and pretend you k'now when wisdom is not k'nowing. "I k'now that I k'now nothing" is still unwise by your definition, keep that in mind. Conttraddiictiionnss.

[CocaCola]

Wisdom
n 1: accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment 2: the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight [syn: wiseness] [ant: folly] 3: ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight [syn: sapience] 4: the quality of being prudent and sensible [syn: wiseness, soundness] 5: an Apocryphal book consisting mainly of a meditation on wisdom; although ascribed to Solomon it was probably written in the first century BC [syn: Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom]

Learning
n 1: the cognitive process of acquiring skill or knowledge; "the child's acquisition of language" [syn: acquisition] 2: profound scholarly knowledge [syn: eruditeness, erudition, learnedness, scholarship, encyclopedism, encyclopaedism]

Knowledge
n : the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning [syn: cognition, noesis]

Experience

n 1: the accumulation of knowledge or skill that results from direct participation in events or activities; "a man of experience"; "experience is the best teacher" [ant: inexperience] 2: the content of direct observation or participation in an event; "he had a religious experience"; "he recalled the experience vividly" 3: an event as apprehended; "a surprising experience"; "that painful experience certainly got our attention" v 1: go or live through; "We had many trials to go through"; "he saw action in Viet Nam" [syn: undergo, see, go through] 2: have firsthand knowledge of states, situations, emotions, or sensations; "I know the feeling!"; "have you ever known hunger?"; "I have lived a kind of hell when I was a drug addict"; "The holocaust survivors have lived a nightmare"; "I lived through two divorces" [syn: know, live] 3: of mental or physical states or experiences; "get an idea"; "experience vertigo"; "get nauseous"; "undergo a strange sensation"; "The chemical undergoes a sudden change"; "The fluid undergoes shear"; "receive injuries"; "have a feeling" [syn: receive, have, get, undergo] 4: undergo an emotional sensation; "She felt resentful"; "He felt regret" [syn: feel] 5: undergo; "The stocks had a fast run-up" [syn: have]

Draw your own conclusions from this listing of definitions!1 This solves everything!1

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Wisdom
n 1: accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment 2: the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight [syn: wiseness] [ant: folly] 3: ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight [syn: sapience] 4: the quality of being prudent and sensible [syn: wiseness, soundness] 5: an Apocryphal book consisting mainly of a meditation on wisdom; although ascribed to Solomon it was probably written in the first century BC [syn: Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom]

Learning
n 1: the cognitive process of acquiring skill or knowledge; "the child's acquisition of language" [syn: acquisition] 2: profound scholarly knowledge [syn: eruditeness, erudition, learnedness, scholarship, encyclopedism, encyclopaedism]

Knowledge
n : the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning [syn: cognition, noesis]

Experience

n 1: the accumulation of knowledge or skill that results from direct participation in events or activities; "a man of experience"; "experience is the best teacher" [ant: inexperience] 2: the content of direct observation or participation in an event; "he had a religious experience"; "he recalled the experience vividly" 3: an event as apprehended; "a surprising experience"; "that painful experience certainly got our attention" v 1: go or live through; "We had many trials to go through"; "he saw action in Viet Nam" [syn: undergo, see, go through] 2: have firsthand knowledge of states, situations, emotions, or sensations; "I know the feeling!"; "have you ever known hunger?"; "I have lived a kind of hell when I was a drug addict"; "The holocaust survivors have lived a nightmare"; "I lived through two divorces" [syn: know, live] 3: of mental or physical states or experiences; "get an idea"; "experience vertigo"; "get nauseous"; "undergo a strange sensation"; "The chemical undergoes a sudden change"; "The fluid undergoes shear"; "receive injuries"; "have a feeling" [syn: receive, have, get, undergo] 4: undergo an emotional sensation; "She felt resentful"; "He felt regret" [syn: feel] 5: undergo; "The stocks had a fast run-up" [syn: have]

Draw your own conclusions from this listing of definitions!1 This solves everything!1your amusing poetry solves nothing.


you DID know that, didnt you? that the dictionary is just a poetic symbol of interpretation?


god, i hope you know that! words are meant to be defined and understood based on your collective perceptions and understandings, the world is but an open class room, you are nothing but a self serving student.

the dictionary only offers a limited interpretive explanation for words, truly, you must understand the word for your self. mostly, language is universal, but interpretation and usage are flexable, no matter what a dictionary says.

[CocaCola]

Ok, fine... then you explain what the words mean.

[ADaisyChain]

your amusing poetry solves nothing.


you DID know that, didnt you? that the dictionary is just a poetic symbol of interpretation?


god, i hope you know that! words are meant to be defined and understood based on your collective perceptions and understandings, the world is but an open class room, you are nothing but a self serving student.

the dictionary only offers a limited interpretive explanation for words, truly, you must understand the word for your self. mostly, language is universal, but interpretation and usage are flexable, no matter what a dictionary says.

You sure k'now alot.

-VOMITTING-

Im glad you brought your old avatar back cocacola.

[lemonboy]

Awwe, the dictionary. That is just precious. I guess now you have an opinion on gay marriage.

[CocaCola]

Ok, this is what I'm talking about you fucking retards... typical... I posted some dictionary shit so I can get out of this stupid debate and so that you can go rambling on about God. And then everyone's like "Haha, he brought up the dictionary adn he's lost all credibility, he's ST00PID ROFLWTFLOL" while all along you miss the point. I'm done in this thread. Go on believing what you will... it's ok... cause you can believe whatever the fuck you want... but if you can't stop and see where I AM COMING FROM then you're arguing for the sake of arguing and now this debate is going nowhere. Ugh... God, what the fuck?

[ADaisyChain]

you betta not be talkin to me. i was talking ssw until i complimented your avatar.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

i missed no points; and you cant contain philosophy, it cannot be crammed into specific conditions or any set of rules, so the whole confined deffenitions goes against defining god.

[F L E S H]

SSW, you seem so sure about everything, like you already know it... Are you sure YOU'RE not God?

Seriously, dude, you're just spouting whatever comes into your head without thinking anything through. It seems that your simply making up your own theories and backing them up with your own facts. It completely pointless having a debate with you.

[ADaisyChain]

SSW, you seem so sure about everything, like you already know it... Are you sure YOU'RE not God?

Seriously, dude, you're just spouting whatever comes into your head without thinking anything through. It seems that your simply making up your own theories and backing them up with your own facts. It completely pointless having a debate with you.

2nded.

Sorry SSW, you're an awesome guy, but you act like a know-it-all who everyone else can see knows nothing.

"While intelligent people can often simplify the complex, a fool is more likely to complicate the simple."

[CocaCola]

you betta not be talkin to me. i was talking ssw until i complimented your avatar.
No, of course not man... You quoted him, I know who you were talking aboot. I was talking to him as well. And Lemonguy.

Yes "SSW" a debate with you is hell... I cannot take it anymore.

[ADaisyChain]

oh okay good. got internet nervous that i might have shattered all my hopes of being internet cool with you.

lawl.

Im going to take a nap. Xanax and a beer is slowly turning off my brain.

edit: just noticed you said aboot. kickin it canada style. my dad is from michigain and he says aboot. i always make fun of him. but snice this is the internet i'll refrain.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

2nded.

Sorry SSW, you're an awesome guy, but you act like a know-it-all who everyone else can see knows nothing.

"While intelligent people can often simplify the complex, a fool is more likely to complicate the simple."believe me, it's very simple, but im not actually supposed to say anything, and i've said it too much already, the overly complex BS that i spout *CAN* stem from it, but it doesnt nessacarily truly occour at this point in eternity...


think of it as cleaning up after myself...


i can only explain it in that way...




like i've said before, you really gotta come to these things on your own. you cant listen to me, even if i say it in it's most simplistic terms.
which i have, and is why i ran over it again with all the complexity.

and forther dig myself deeper to make sure you dont just listen to me, and figure it out on your own...

[CocaCola]

Hahaha, I figured you would catch that. Make fun... how aboot a bagal?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

bagels and cream cheese.


no no, that's for you, for me i will have cream cheese with a few bagels. :D

[CocaCola]

believe me, it's very simple, but im not actually supposed to say anything, and i've said it too much already, the overly complex BS that i spout *CAN* stem from it, but it doesnt nessacarily truly occour at this point in eternity...


think of it as cleaning up after myself...


i can only explain it in that way...




like i've said before, you really gotta come to these things on your own. you cant listen to me, even if i say it in it's most simplistic terms.
which i have, and is why i ran over it again with all the complexity.

and forther dig myself deeper to make sure you dont just listen to me, and figure it out on your own...Oh the enigma that is the Stoner Shadow Wolf... :o

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

as long as i have adequately distracted everyone... :D


i can stop looking like a fool :P


although i DO like a few of those stupid theories and might mess with them :D

[ADaisyChain]

Here's my theory. Freethinkers make all the progress. The people who don't allow their mind to be controlled by the minds of others are the ones who get to make all the progress. But you gotta make baby steps. Most people change slowly, and some are stuck and will never change. I don't think you're a fool, I just think your mind is too far away from where the average person's is right now. And if that's the case, you can't just tell people to go where your mind is, you have to take them there one thought at a time, nice and slow. "Everything you know is wrong." hurts too much for anyone to accept. Besides, its something that's been said by alot of people, all of whom have different opinions of what right is.

I like all of your theories, but when you present them as fact it annoys people because they're just theories. Endlessly interesting to think about, but you can't correct someone else's theory with a contradictory theory. You can only offer it up as another possibile solution to an equation which no one can be sure the answer of.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it... until someone changes me mind and I find a theory more suitable. -laughs-

[CocaCola]

We should all be working TOGETHER here...

[ADaisyChain]

Alright. Lets team up and form the superfriends.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

*avoids posting here*












































damnit!

[CocaCola]

I call Buddha!

[ADaisyChain]

stonershadowwolf gets jesus.

I call aquaman if thats cool with everybody.

[mrdevious]

I call Buddha!

Buddha and I thank you :rasta:

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

what?!? why do I get jesus?!? or is it one of those ironic twists kinda things?


cuz if you dont all already know, i'd sooner be the antichrist!
*demonic disembodied eyes with a piercing gaze of firey rage*

[ADaisyChain]

you have long hair. you have to be jesus. its the rules.

[Oneironaut]

i am working on tidbits. keeping a .txt notepad open and trying to unload my mind on it.


in about a month, i might have something ready to be read, untill then, it's not going to help me to try to explain anything, because every time i explain one aspect of reality, it opens up more questions based on the relation it has to do with science and history.


and you'd have to take to what i said to answer some of your own questions lol.
Umm, okay...


we never NEEDED history, because we were de-evolving from GODS.
Devolving from gods? When did these "gods" exist? What the hell are "gods" anyways? Why are they devolving into humans? How are they devolving into humans? Where's the evidence for all this? And what does any of it have to do with history?

and the bible is largely inaccurate too, mostly in chronology and mathmatics.
Uhh, it's inaccurate in a lot more ways than that. For instance, that whole bit about the Jews being enslaved in Egypt and then wandering around in the desert for 40 years. There's not one shred of archeological evidence that that ever happened.

[thcbongman]

When you speak about the "theory" of evolution it is important to realize that the scientific definition of "theory" is not the same as the way the word is used in everyday conversation. A theory is not just a guess as to how things might have happened, but a model of how the world works that is backed up by data. Theories can never be proven 100% true, but with many theories, such as evolution, we can show that they're extremely likely. There really is no other real scientific theory about how life came to be. There's "intelligent design", but that's not scientific at all since it doesn't make any falsifiable statements and doesn't correct itself according to the data. It's really more of a game to see how many holes they can punch into the prevailing theory â?? they don't actually make any predictions about what we should find in the future or present any models for how life came to be. They just say "God did it" and give the matter no more thought.

What do you mean by "spirituality", or the "balance of mind, body and soul", and why can such things exist only if there is a deity or deities? I just haven't ever experienced anything which would suggest to me that there is a God or many gods out there. There's nothing in my life that is only explainable in terms of gods. Whatever they are. Hardly anybody is willing to tell me what gods are supposed to be in the first place, and those who do have widely divergent definitions. When somebody can sit me down, explain to me what gods are and what the evidence is that shows beyond a doubt that such things exist, I will incorporate them into my worldview. In the meantime, I live a very happy and fulfilling life in which I only assume the existence of things which can be shown to exist.

The funny thing about most of the religions out there is they believe God is tyrranical man-like figure that walks the earth and controls all that is around us. I don't believe it. Each of us are an extension of god, we all possess god like powers. I'm not talking about what you see in movies about Jesus ascending to heaven or god causing Tsunamis. Nature is one aspect of god, after all, what is the purpose of life if we don't suffer? I refer to that each decision in one's life affects others, whether directly or indirectly. We each have the power to create life, take life, we each control our destinies to an extent. The rest is controlled by the environment and energies that surround us. This is the purpose of religion. This is a message that is lost. Everytime we feel we done wrong, each of one feels burden, or guilt. The purpose of spirituality is not to have guilt be your hinderance, to be free of it by being a good person, positive, and good to others. You don't have to believe in god to achieve this. This is where I disagree with others. People get too caught up in believing in god, paying tithes etc., rather than trying to get in tune with one's self. God is the environment, the energy, and you.

Science can explain what life is through logic and reasoning. How you live it is through god.

[Oneironaut]

But what IS God? You've given a very vague description. As far as I can tell, the universe is made out of matter, energy, space and time, and that's it. I have no reason to believe in anything further, as I see no evidence of it anywhere. I believe in being a good person and all, but I don't see why we have to attach it to this vague "God" idea. I'm a good person because I genuinely care about the feelings of others, and I want to do what I can to make this world a better place for them. That's built right into our genes. Our ancestors who didn't have a genetic predisposition to help out their fellow man died out. We are a very social species. We depend on each other for survival, and to ensure that our societies stay together we have evolved the trait of empathy, that is, being able to "feel for" others. We feel horrible when we know our loved ones are in pain, and we feel great when we've provided our loved ones with pleasure. It is just the product of evolution, of high intellect and the need to keep our societies together, not the product of a supernatural entity. I don't see why we need to attach to this phenomenon a name which is commonly understood to mean an omnipotent, omniscient human-like father figure who rules over the universe with absolute power, punishing those who don't follow his rules and rewarding those who do.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

matter, energy, space and time, oneironaut, are ideas invented by god, and breathed into reality.

god is nothing but the collective of all ego/spirit/souls. we created god by existing, we are god when we all work together as one.

[MoonStarer420]

Sorry, "I watched a video about it" isn't enough. If the theory of evolution really is full of holes, you should be able to remember at least one of those holes and be able to tell me what it is.

What does this fossilized cowboy boot have to do with anything?

HAHAHA!!! People like toothpick drive me insane. There's on logic or rational thought behind anything he's said. I think what he met by fossilize book was that bones can fossilized "quickly." Too bad the bones ages are determined by the decay rate of C-14 and at which level of sediments they were found at.

[Oneironaut]

matter, energy, space and time, oneironaut, are ideas invented by god, and breathed into reality.
What the hell is this "God" thing you keep talking about? Please, define your terms, and then show me your evidence. Otherwise, I cannot possibly take statements like this seriously.

god is nothing but the collective of all ego/spirit/souls. we created god by existing, we are god when we all work together as one.
Huh? Why not just call that thing "humanity" then instead of "God"? That seems to be a closer approximation of the idea you're trying to express here. Unless you're trying to say that human consciousness is all-powerful, all-knowing and created the universe.

[Toothpick]

I give up on this thread its not going anywhere

[Oneironaut]

You'd be hard-pressed to find any debate on religion or politics that "goes anywhere". In the vast majority of cases people leave with the exact same views they started out with. Or at least they claim to; it's very embarrassing for people to admit they were wrong about such things. You have to just keep an open mind and be willing to be shown wrong, I guess.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

What the hell is this "God" thing you keep talking about? Please, define your terms, and then show me your evidence. Otherwise, I cannot possibly take statements like this seriously.

Huh? Why not just call that thing "humanity" then instead of "God"? That seems to be a closer approximation of the idea you're trying to express here. Unless you're trying to say that human consciousness is all-powerful, all-knowing and created the universe.
"please put the source of reality inside the box that is reality, only then will i believe something created reality"

that's about what i get from that, one.


you're trying to put a greatness that has not even created symbols for all it's own greatness to put itself inside one of it's symbols.


it's like the sims. let's recreate will wright in perfect likeness to himself, and put him in the sims.
*computer crash* the information required to perfectly recreate Wright would require more than our computers can currently handle.

that is how humans are too. weak computers inable to comprehend their creater's greatness.


the sims cannot understand flesh and (real) genetics, to them, we live to be thousands of years old, but of course the sims are a game, nothing like reality. :rolleyes:

the point is, reality has not (and forever will not) ever evolved to -- the entity that is god.

it is three realities that create one, which those other three cannot enter as one, but govern over as the three that they are.


you would say that physics are one of the three parts of god.
then thoughts would make the next, right? or what would you say would?
and... um... i guess matter and body makes the third part...

i dunno, i lost track of where this was going, three or four conversations going on now, i think i'll just stop arguing lol

[Oneironaut]

"please put the source of reality inside the box that is reality, only then will i believe something created reality"

that's about what i get from that, one.
Well, if God is real, then he's surely part of reality, right? If God's not part of reality, well then he's just not real. I can't reason otherwise.

you're trying to put a greatness that has not even created symbols for all it's own greatness to put itself inside one of it's symbols.
What you're basically saying here is: "There's something out there and I don't know what it is or where it is, and I don't have any evidence that it even exists. In fact it's so mysterious we will never know what it is." That doesn't get us anywhere. It's like me saying there's something called a foozlefizzle. I don't know what a foozlefizzle is, but it's really big and mysterious and invisible and I can't prove to you that the foozlefizzle exists, but I have faith in the foozlefizzle. We will never understand the foozlefizzle because it is undetectable and enormously complex, but let's just assume it exists even though I don't have any evidence that it does.

Sure there are things in this universe we don't understand, but inventing vague abstract ideas like gods to explain them will only hinder us in our search for what's really going on.


it's like the sims. let's recreate will wright in perfect likeness to himself, and put him in the sims.
*computer crash* the information required to perfectly recreate Wright would require more than our computers can currently handle.

that is how humans are too. weak computers inable to comprehend their creater's greatness.
What creator? Where is the evidence for this creator? What is so objectionable about the idea that the universe just is? There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic purpose for our existence. We just are. There's no reason we need a creator any more than your God needs a creator, so why postulate one if there's no evidence for it?

the sims cannot understand flesh and (real) genetics, to them, we live to be thousands of years old, but of course the sims are a game, nothing like reality. :rolleyes:

the point is, reality has not (and forever will not) ever evolved to -- the entity that is god.
Again, you're using the word "God" without defining what it is. Can you give me some idea what this word means? You obviously must have some clue if you're using it in this sentence here. All I can gather is that it's some big invisible mysterious force that made the universe, that doesn't necessarily have a cause in itself. Following Occam's Razor, I'd rather cut the confusing God step out of that process and just say the universe doesn't necessarily have a cause in itself. Unless some evidence of this extra step is found, there's no reason to assume it took place.


it is three realities that create one, which those other three cannot enter as one, but govern over as the three that they are.


you would say that physics are one of the three parts of god.
I would say that physics can account for everything in the universe. Everything is made out of something, or it doesn't exist. If God is real, he must be made out of something, and physics should be able to uncover what that something is. If God is not something, then God is nothing, i.e. not real. I simply cannot conceive of something that is not made out of anything and yet still exists. I have never been very good at doublethink.

then thoughts would make the next, right? or what would you say would?
Thoughts are a part of physical reality. Think about it. Where do thoughts occur? The brain. Can we observe the brain? Yes. Can we observe thought patterns in the brain? Yes, indirectly, but we know that's where it's going on. For instance, real physical chemical molecules (drugs) can effect your thoughts and behavior. We can even identify certain parts of the brain that are associated with specific cognitive tasks. These parts of the brain receive more blood flow when those tasks are being performed, we can influence the performance of those tasks by stimulating that part of the brain with electrodes, and people who receive injury to that part of the brain have difficulty completing the tasks associated with that part of the brain. This all only makes sense if thought is a physical process going on inside the brain. How could a non-physical "soul" be affected by physical drugs and physical brain injuries? How does this "soul" direct the blood flow and neuron firings in the brain without breaking the laws of physics in some obvious observable manner? Why do we even need to keep the ancient idea of a "soul" when we know how the brain works anyways? We gave up the idea of a rain god when we found out how rain works, didn't we?

and... um... i guess matter and body makes the third part...
It should be fairly obvious to anyone with working eyes that matter and bodies are part of physical reality.

i dunno, i lost track of where this was going, three or four conversations going on now, i think i'll just stop arguing lol
I don't know where this is going either, especially since I still have no clue what this "God" thing is supposed to be.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

What creator? Where is the evidence for this creator? What is so objectionable about the idea that the universe just is? There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic purpose for our existence. We just are. There's no reason we need a creator any more than your God needs a creator, so why postulate one if there's no evidence for it?this is my point, the sims have no evidence of will wright existing. to them he is just a myth, and all will wright sims are just copies and false interpretations thereof.

because will wright cannot be exactly interpreted in his own game.


what you said, as a sim:

"What creator? Where is the evidence for Will Wright? What is so objectionable about the idea that the Neighborhood just is? There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic purpose for our existence. We just are. There's no reason we need a creator any more than your God needs a creator, so why postulate one if there's no evidence for it?"


and will wright is laughing real hard at his creations, that they debate about his existance.

[ADaisyChain]

who created will wright

and in turn, who created will wrights creator

etcetera.

Where's it end?

And if the sims knew they were created in will wrights likeness what difference would it make on their lives?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

yes, they'd be all offended, they'd be all: "liek omg they got better architecture than we do! look! they have free rotation for their objects! we only get 4 different angles!"

[ADaisyChain]

lol.

You still didn't answer my first three questions though.

[beachguy in thongs]

You guys have shallow minds. Don't you want their to be something else that maybe you can grow a part of through evolution? It doesn't matter if it's a God, but don't you want the same force that created our complex physiological bodies to be too complex for you to understand, much less denying that it exists?

[ADaisyChain]

You guys have shallow minds. Don't you want their to be something else that maybe you can grow a part of through evolution? It doesn't matter if it's a God, but don't you want the same force that created our complex physiological bodies to be too complex for you to understand, much less denying that it exists?

You're really fucking arrogant to say we have shallow minds beachguy. Unbelievably so.

I already stated in my other thread that whatever originally created us is too complex for us to ever fully understand.

Really. Really fucking arrogant.

[ADaisyChain]

Should we stop TRYING to understand it with the best of our capabilities simply because we'll never be able to understand it in full?

No one is denying there is an unexplained force out there, that in our current form we are incapable of understanding completely. I'm simply saying it's very possible this universe is all there is, and this universe is enough to be considered god without some force outside of it dictating its existance.

Get off the pedastool beachguy, and back in your recliner. I liked you better there.

[CocaCola]

No one is denying the existence of God, for christ sakes... it just seems that everyone has a different view about what God is. Can it be said enough?

[ADaisyChain]

You guys have shallow minds.

I'm still in shock at this part. I thought beachguy was a humble kind of wise guy. And there's no such thing as an arrogant kind of wise guy. -frroowwwnn-

[CocaCola]

And no one is saying that there isn't a possibilty of SOMETHING that created everything... but some think that that "something" isn't by definition God.

God

n 1: the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions [syn: God, Supreme Being] 2: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force [syn: deity, divinity, immortal] 3: a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people; "he was a god among men" 4: a material effigy that is worshipped as a god; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god" [syn: idol, graven image]

I mean when you say God, you mean the supreme being... I don't think of it as a being but more of an event almost. But I also believe personally, that the universe has always been running it's course... how, I'm not sure... maybe constant cycles of life and rebirth... the vaccum "big bang and big crunch" theory?

[ADaisyChain]

-froooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn-

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

who created will wrighthis parents... :D and their origonal roots are god... :rolleyes:


and in turn, who created will wrights creatorsort of self created i guess, but you must realize, we are like the sims, we are limited in our ability to comprehend the greatness of our creater.

it is that our computer is a 5 GHz processer, but in order to render our creater, we need a 500GHz processer. (and by the time our creater can make a 5ooGHz processer for us, our creater will need a 500THz! lol)



Where's it end?wherever it begins.


And if the sims knew they were created in will wrights likeness what difference would it make on their lives?and will wright said "let us create the sims in our image"... :rolleyes:

[ADaisyChain]

If our creator doesn't need a creator... why do we? Why can't we just 'exist miraculously' the same way people think he does?

[CocaCola]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

WARNING: MELTDOWN

[ADaisyChain]

lawling/waiting

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

im not saying our creater doesnt need a creater
im saying that we lack the resources to compute what our creator is, let alone it's origons.


bu tmy theory is it is a frequent mirror, god created man, created sims, created ai???... etc.

[ADaisyChain]

:(

Talking in circles.

Oh well, not a big deal. I'm almost sober anyway, so I'm gonna be leaving soon.

Debating with you is really bad ssw.

I'll say it though...

If our creator needs a creator, then our creators creator needs a creator, who also needs a creator, who in turn, also needs a creator. And so on for infinity. And if this is true, since humans can't comprehend it... how would you know?

[420kidder]

How many of you have spent more than an hour praying this week?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

for one to know the globe, they must walk forever in circles, as it is constantly changing.


to debate with me is to debate with the collective of mind, a universe of possibilities.

[ADaisyChain]

Well then stop talking like you know, it makes things more confusing.

Preface your 'possibilities' with

"well it's possible that...."

instead of jumping right in and stating your possibilities as fact. If I knew you just thought of them as theories, and didn't actually believe you had any proof behind them beyond a guess, I wouldn't keep inquiring.

And if you presented them as POSSIBILITIES instead of as fact, debating with you would be interesting, rather then annoying. Because 99% of the time I read your possibilities stated as fact and think "How can he possibly think he has proof of this rather then just taking a guess like everyone else is?"

I'm sober and leaving. Peas.

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm still in shock at this part. I thought beachguy was a humble kind of wise guy. And there's no such thing as an arrogant kind of wise guy. -frroowwwnn-
LOL, I just threw it in there for amusement. :stoned:

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Well then stop talking like you know, it makes things more confusing.

Preface your 'possibilities' with

"well it's possible that...."

instead of jumping right in and stating your possibilities as fact. If I knew you just thought of them as theories, and didn't actually believe you had any proof behind them beyond a guess, I wouldn't keep inquiring.

And if you presented them as POSSIBILITIES instead of as fact, debating with you would be interesting, rather then annoying. Because 99% of the time I read your possibilities stated as fact and think "How can he possibly think he has proof of this rather then just taking a guess like everyone else is?"

I'm sober and leaving. Peas.
there's only one thing i will put forth as turth without proof, and just like all the other hairbrained theories i usually havem this cant really be proven either, but it's the only one i will state intentionally as fact.

everything else is just a theoretical possibility based on the one true truth being nothing(ness).

[F L E S H]

No one is denying the existence of God, for christ sakes... it just seems that everyone has a different view about what God is. Can it be said enough?
I'm denying the existence of God. People's own view of God is completely irrelevant since it's a fairy tale.

[mrdevious]

I'm denying the existence of God. People's own view of God is completely irrelevant since it's a fairy tale.

ya know if you keep denying the undying, perfect, infinite love of god like that, he'll send you to burn in the fires of hell forever.

[CocaCola]

I'm denying the existence of God. People's own view of God is completely irrelevant since it's a fairy tale.
First off all, you weren't in the thread when I posted that... so SORRY. And second of all, my view God isn't irrelevant...

[HvyFuel]

Cannabis exists in the real world, god exists in personal opinion. I believe in cannabis.
;)

[F L E S H]

ya know if you keep denying the undying, perfect, infinite love of god like that, he'll send you to burn in the fires of hell forever.
Sounds fun! Can't wait.

[beachguy in thongs]

ya know if you keep wearing women's underwear, you're gonna hook up with men, forever.


Sounds fun! Can't wait.

Don't jinx yourself, Flesh(wound).

[mrdevious]

shit I don't remember saying that beachguy, I must have been really wrecked! I just thankgod I didn't ruin my avatar.



EDIT: Oh Shit!

[psychocat]

I put my faith in something that I believe in and thats me.
Religion closes your mind by indoctrination and people follow the (to my mind) ridiculous idea that because the Bible or Koran or any of the holy scriptures says that something is so then it must be true.
Question everything.

[CocaCola]

A religion doesn't have to be about a supreme being does it? Couldn't it just be a "moral standard" among those in the religion? I mean, do you remember that guy Jesus... who said to follow you're heart. Religion (Such as christianity for example) relates to the heart, but not anymore... now it's about who's religion is right. While really they are all right.

Some relate to the mind, though... and some relate to the soul. (Hinduism, I believe) But that is a different issue.

[Oneironaut]

A religion is a set of beliefs about the supernatural. Otherwise what you have is a philosophy. It's hard to conceive of how the supernatural could exist without a higher power of some sort. That's what the word "supernatural" means anyways. Super-natural means above or over the natural world in which we are trapped.

It is by this postulation of the supernatural that religions are close-minded. It is impossible to know anything besides what is in the natural world. Knowledge can only come from observation, and anything that is observable is by definition in the natural world. Religions make guesses about how the universe works beyond the limits of observation and claim them as absolute fact, even though there is no evidence to support their claims since the supernatural is by definition unobservable.

To be open-minded is to be willing to have your opinion changed by new evidence. Since religions work outside the scope of evidence, they cannot be open-minded. In order to embrace a religion, you have to blindly accept certain things as fact even when there is no evidence to back them up, and when the evidence argues against the claims. When you use logic and evidence to reason out your beliefs, that's not religion. That's science or philosophy. When you use faith (believing things to be true without evidence), that's religion. And when you believe things to be true without evidence, you have no way to argue for your beliefs, and you just end up believing them for no good reason, which is a sure path to close-mindedness.

[CocaCola]

But you can't deny that most religions have some good ideas... I agree in part with some of the ideals of Christianity but not that there is a God, for example. And what about Buddism? To my understanding, Buddah was not a supernatural being... he was a man who had set a moral code for his followers to live by. So Buddism isn't a religion then? It's a philosophy.

[mrdevious]

But you can't deny that most religions have some good ideas... I agree in part with some of the ideals of Christianity but not that there is a God, for example. And what about Buddism? To my understanding, Buddah was not a supernatural being... he was a man who had set a moral code for his followers to live by. So Buddism isn't a religion then? It's a philosophy.


it's constantly debated whether buddhism, at it's core, is a religion or a philosophy. I guess I'd call it a philosophy myself. and yes, buddha was not supernatural at all and never tried to tell us he was, but sadly enough many priests and the like made him into one later because some people just need a magical man to believe in.

[devils dream]

well mr D have to agree with you on this,
i dont have a set relgion by which i rule my life as i see nothing within a relgion that will benefit me in any way as you say there are no facts to back it up.
but on the other hand i have things which i hope are out there when i die i hope this isn't the end and i like to think that those who have gone before me are still around in a spirit world but i only believe it because i want to not because there is any real evidence that it exists. just a wishfull fantacy. but thats all it is as for any supernatural being that controls things if your good you go to heaven if not hell sorry but that just akes for a dctator who says its his way or no way.

[devils dream]

well mr D have to agree with you on this,
i dont have a set relgion by which i rule my life as i see nothing within a relgion that will benefit me in any way as you say there are no facts to back it up.
but on the other hand i have things which i hope are out there when i die i hope this isn't the end and i like to think that those who have gone before me are still around in a spirit world but i only believe it because i want to not because there is any real evidence that it exists. just a wishfull fantacy. but thats all it is as for any supernatural being that controls things if your good you go to heaven if not hell sorry but that just makes for a dictator who says its his way or no way.

[devils dream]

oops sorry double post :-)