LED grow lights... input please.

[LEDGirl]

Yes I do. I also stated that a few posts ago ;)

[1Wonder]

Do you have a husband named Rory. I say this because because of your Real name from the other forum and I think I might know you.

[LEDGirl]

Do you have a husband named Rory. I say this because because of your Real name from the other forum and I think I might know you.

Nope, I'm a lesbian. I have a wife though :thumbsup:

[1Wonder]

Ha Ha, OK, They are from Medford Oregon but I had to ask, been trying to get in touch with them for a few years now with no luck.

[stinkyattic]

The commercial link pasted all over your pictures, and your repeated posting of material linking to that site, is in violation of our TOU and you should consider editing them. Please re-read the TOU you agreed to upon registering if you have any confusion. Thank you.

[hearseking]

L.e.d are junk

[spliff1955]

I am new to the forum, and extremely interested in growing with LEDs. I have never cultivated MJ, but plan to grow other things. I am pretty good with electronics and understanding basic electrical theory, and plan to build my own light panel using reliable parts from the net.

My question is, how much is enough?? Personally, for a small home operation, i think a 600w HPS is overkill and a waste of electricity since most of the energy is converted into both unusable spectrum of light and heat.

Leds sound like the right idea given plants only need certain spectrums of light to grow and be healthy.

How much LED power do you really need for a 3-5 plant setup??

[MerryPrankstr]

I'm using 300 watts of LED light for a grow about that size through flowering. This is my second grow using them and they do work well.
Just make that the individual emmiteers are strong enough. 3 and 5 watts each are preferable.

M.P.

[mgjscdhl]

thanks for link to the ledgrowlights. I posted this very question on another topic I started but nobody replied as of yet. I'm guessing these can get expensive or maybee a bit difficult for first timers but there seems to be very good for air flow and heat. Can someone tell me about how many would be needed in a stealth cabinet or closet size grow box?

[DreadedHermie]

Can someone tell me about how many would be needed in a stealth cabinet or closet size grow box?

To me, a stealth cab and a closet are two way different sizes. I would say:

Using good parts and efficient drivers, 50 watts of LEDs will match 100 watts of CFL, fluoro, or HID.

Costs about $2/watt for the LEDs plus $1/watt for the drivers.

So, for $180 you can build a 60 watt LED light that'll match 120 watts of something else. (A 90-watt UFO will NOT replace a 400w.HPS. That's a sales pitch. 200 watts of high-end emitters and drivers, though....no problem.)

Not really cost-effective (yet) unless:

a) heat is a big problem
b) electricity's real expensive, or
c) maximum stealth (no electrical or thermal footprint) is critical.

I'm probably gonna put together a DIY tutorial if anybody's interested in building their own light. Let me know, Hermie.

[mgjscdhl]

I guess thats true, when I think stealth cabinet I think roughly half of closet (at least height wize) or maybee one or two rubbermaid boxes stacked ontop of the other, like : http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/153641-super-stealth-rubbermaid-2-new-strain.html#post2031626

I'm guessing from what you said price wise its more efficient for other methods. I'm not sure of a cabinet (size I mentioned) or closet would have major heat problems but I have yet to build.

I'm thinking one advantage over the other methods though is that the led lifespan should be more? or am I wrong?

forgive ignorance what do you mean by driver (led)? I've normally seen only leds in computer/electronic components, not hardwired in sequence.

I would definitely like to see how its setup, so a diy would be great. no pressure or anything but I'm curious already.

[DreadedHermie]

I'm thinking one advantage over the other methods though is that the led lifespan should be more? or am I wrong?

Oh, leds will last several years in any decent design. What we're hoping is the current production will be obsolete long before that time. Lotsa companies making streetlights, residential lighting, car lights, etc. Technology will trickle down. :thumbsup: Still, for some, leds make sense now, for any of the above three reasons.


forgive ignorance what do you mean by driver (led)?

I guess when I talk about a driver, it's like a Mean-Well brand unit. They have an A/C plug on one end, and two wires, + and -, on the other. Very simple and neat. You wire that directly to the leds --nothing else is required.

It's a power supply, but it's also got current regulation built in. You can dial the voltage up and down, and limit the current to dim the leds. You can run your leds exactly as hard as you want.

With highpowered leds you can power each color with its own individual driver and have total control of the spectrum.;)

The "current controlling electronics" part itself can also be referred to as a driver, too, but you have to add a wall-wart or some other kind of power to them. That's pretty simple, too. Real cheap, but not real efficient. :rastasmoke:

[hollywood33]

I have a grow going on using a 600 watt Full Spectrum LED panel. Check out the Video on youtube.. Please subscribe!

YouTube - LED Grow Light 600 Watt Six Spectrum Grow light Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcI2Jadp-zU)

[Jcenter]

High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/growlighttypes.asp?categoryID=1&subcategoryID=168)

heres some leds

[JackdaWack]

I'f ur not going to spend more then 500bucks on an led systems its not worth it IMO. I've seen the difference first hand in light output and the panels that work on the HID scale are around $1000. Keep in mind the 2watt bulbs they use for these panels cost about 20bucks each. My hyrdo guy over at the store is putting together a panel to sell that incorporates 3watt leds, its going to be a 600watt HID equivalent and is going to be about 1300 bucks. They sell some really good systems over there but he's trying to get more bang out the same size panel. They have some grows set up in the shop, and the UFO light was ok but not much for flowering and the bigger systems were so intense u couldnt even look at the light with out doing damage to ur eyes. I'm gonna wait for the price to come down on the systems worth buying before i make the decision to change.

[Weezard]

"Keep in mind the 2watt bulbs they use for these panels cost about 20bucks each"

That is incorrect by an order of magnitude.

3 Watt "stars" are around $5 ea.
High quality 5 Watt mounted emitters are only 8 or 9 bucks.
15 Watt emitters can be had for $26.

Dunno where you get your info, but I'll be happy to sell you 2 Watt "bulbs" for 18 bucks each.:D
Such a deal!

Still, you are right about waiting for decent commercial lights at a reasonable price.
Won't be much longer.

Aloha,
Weezard

[JackdaWack]

Well it was directly out of my hydro guys mouth who's building them. I asked why they cost so much and his answer was the leds. I tried to find some places that sell the LED's 2w or 3w but cant so i only have to go on what he said.

Now that i'm looking more into it, im finding LEDs that cost a buckets load that have high lumen output. NOT YOUR STANDARD LED that cost 2 bucks.

[JackdaWack]

Cree MC-E - Cree Xlamp - LED Supply.com (http://ledsupply.com/creemce.php)

But still they can be had cheaper.

[radtek]

Reading this thread has been extremely tedious and to be honest I skipped a good deal of it. Typical forum fodder...

I've been researching this quite a bit. Seems that LED tech is still being proven depending on who posts but HID is a known quantity that delivers consistent results.

Furthermore, experienced naysayers demand even greater performance than HID before they'll accept LED's.

For myself the heat/fire-risk issue from HID is a deterrent and LED lights would solve my awkward attempts at using CFL's effectively.

My conclusion is that higher wattage panel such as 300+ should work adequately for veg and flower?

[beef74]

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/177822-long-time-grower-seeks-led-information.html if anyone wants to see an honest pictorial, as well as an hps comparison, read the last couple posts: or if you're reading this in the future-read the first page...and look for me.

[beef74]

By the way, here's some pictures of plants at 5 weeks into bloom using 504W (4 x 126W units) over a 2' x 4' aero tray. They are being grown by a customer and personal friend.

504W Test with LED Grow Lights by Hydro-Grow - Grasscity.com Forums (http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-grow-journals/478947-504w-test-led-grow-lights-hydro-grow.html) LEDGirl...maybe you can answer the question that you were asked in this now defunct thread? It would definitely add credibility to your story.Nice pics tho-that purple sure draws em in...dont it?

[beef74]

Kinda funny how she bagged ass after she posted her advertisement.Shrewd...I'll give her that.

[beef74]

Following Ledgirl's lead, I figured it was time to introduce MY led grow light.You guys were wrong about the wavelengths.It's green yal...these are my patented "Kermit Green" .25 watt diodes.The unit is 15 watts- but you need 75 of them to cover a 4x4 grow area.I think I need to work on the name tho-:thumbsup:;)

[DreadedHermie]

LOL.

Got me on dat one. :D

My lights use the real missing wavelength: Starfish Brown!!

[beef74]

LOL.

Got me on dat one. :D

My lights use the real missing wavelength: Starfish Brown!! LOL!! It's like "sunburst orange" from prosource(more Chinese junk btw)-what the hell is sunburst orange:can I get some nm specs on that diode lol!!And Ledgirls crap is called "The Penetrator", which is aptly named because of the penetrating Ledgirl is doing to her customers.8 oz's with a 126w unit...my ass.

[DreadedHermie]

Yeah, the specs on the "skidmark orange" diode states, "This POS diode did not make wavelength as a "red" so we are inventing some dumbass name to off them to gullible stoners."

(You know what your "brown starfish" is, right? :D)

Gross and proud of it, Hermie

[beef74]

lol-or it could be...balloon knot brown.Oh yeah...I can do gross. And carotenoid development?LOL!!

[hearseking]

We make l.e.d wrong time

[DreadedHermie]

The poor craftsman blames his tools. :beatdeadhorse:

Oh, look! An "Ignore" feature. :p

[Handypants]

I wasn't sure it would work.

Seems to work very well indeed.

FWIW

[ohyesplease]

7:1:1...red(630nm) Blue(460nm) Orange(610nm)

try these:)

[Handypants]

7:1:1

But go 660nm for the red:

Both of LED bulbs with 660nm and 630nm wavelength give red color, but LED 660nm bulb shows brighter than 630, also it is more expensive than 630nm .

I have just one female but my UFO has her in full flower at just under six foot tall.

No heat, no spike in electric bill.

I got my UFO (just bought a second one) from sun light sheds for about 2 bills.

As far as I can tell - worth every penny.

[lava88]

Hey folks,
I have one of the T1 smartlamps and one of the lumigrow lamps. both are 600 watts and have all the spectrums of light. I just finished my first grow. what I got was very good considering that my mentor did'nt but thats another chapter. I have noticed that your water use will be less that 1/2 of what you'd expect due to the lack of heat!!!! I also like the fact that they only use about 6$ worth of elec a month. With the lack of need for cooling and repacing bulbs ect in my opinion this is definately the way to go! cool quiet economical whats not to like? nothing technical here just the fact that I used them and I like them
g

[SupraSPL]

Someone posted (Weezard I think) that it takes a few extra weeks to finish them when using LED. Considering what you said about watering (and I have heard many others say) we could add some extra perlite (or whatever your soil amendment of choice) and make sure there is plenty of circulation in the grow box. That should increase the watering frequency which should improve growth.

It seems to be pretty well established that an ambient air temp of 85f is the optimal temperature for most strains to flower. Therefore if we set thermostats on our exhaust fans to maintain that temp that should also improve growth. Since CO2 can be better used at the higher temps, a real basic CO2 augmentation might also help. While the CO2 levels outdoors are just over 388ppm now, indoor the levels may be significantly higher (especially in the winter when I am brewing!) There for a slight but steady intake of this extra CO2 could also improve growth.

Anyway those are some ideas I have been thinking about for adjusting our grow rooms to LED. If we try all these things and the two week delay remains, I spose we could experiment with a timer and a infrared source (I bet Weezard already has?) If all else fails, maybe we can just veg less and switch to 12/12 sooner?

[Joefarmer]

Yeah, they definitely take longer to finish. 15-16 weeks of flower my last grow. I'm currently in week 7 of flower and just a few pistils have turned brown and still all clear trichs. I've also gathered that you can't reliably determine harvest time by checking for amber trichs. I seemed to have 5-10% amber trichs for a good 2 weeks and they stayed that way until I just couldn't bear to wait any longer and chopped em'. Great smoke.

So Weez,? How do we determine when to harvest under LEDs? Aside from the obvious... growing the same strain out a few times to guage it. :smokin:

[stra8outtaWeed]

Yeah, they definitely take longer to finish. 15-16 weeks of flower my last grow. I'm currently in week 7 of flower and just a few pistils have turned brown and still all clear trichs. I've also gathered that you can't reliably determine harvest time by checking for amber trichs. I seemed to have 5-10% amber trichs for a good 2 weeks and they stayed that way until I just couldn't bear to wait any longer and chopped em'. Great smoke.

So Weez,? How do we determine when to harvest under LEDs? Aside from the obvious... growing the same strain out a few times to guage it. :smokin:

the longest i have gone is 63 days of flower under LED's and i have about 30-40% amber trichs...are you growing some wild sativa?

i'm not Weez but i couldn't help but give my .02 ....i do everything from clone to finish under LEDS and i am finishing faster...i used to run everyting 70 days under HPS and my 63 day LED grow is narcotic!:stoned:

[sarah louise]

I'm probably gonna put together a DIY tutorial if anybody's interested in building their own light. Let me know, Hermie.

I would be very interested to see such a DIY tutorial. :thumbsup:

[Joefarmer]

the longest i have gone is 63 days of flower under LED's and i have about 30-40% amber trichs...are you growing some wild sativa?

i'm not Weez but i couldn't help but give my .02 ....i do everything from clone to finish under LEDS and i am finishing faster...i used to run everyting 70 days under HPS and my 63 day LED grow is narcotic!:stoned:

It was bagseed, definitely sativa, 2oz dried in a 3x3. 1st indoor grow. We'll get it nailed down soon. As you seem to have done.

[stra8outtaWeed]

It was bagseed, definitely sativa, 2oz dried in a 3x3. 1st indoor grow. We'll get it nailed down soon. As you seem to have done.

thanks...this is my third completed flower run on LED's and i notice them finishing faster.....the one difference that the lights i have added 3500k LED's to the mix so supplemental CFL's are not needed! :thumbsup:

[Joefarmer]

Cool. How much area does one of those lights cover? How much do they cost? I saw an ad for them or something similar in HT.

[abbazabba123]

fuck I didnt read....this post was fucking dumb anyway....it pist me off and thats why I skipped ahead lol

sorry

[PKroniK]

Sunshine-systems.com, if you want a closer look at LED's

[stra8outtaWeed]

Cool. How much area does one of those lights cover? How much do they cost? I saw an ad for them or something similar in HT.

coverage~ at 10"-12" above your plants 24" x 48"....$450/150w 3w diodes! :thumbsup:

[SupraSPL]

Yea I am on board with the faster finish theory now too. The Durban finished in 7 weeks for me. It must be the white addition that make the difference?

[kegofunk]

Picked up a few of these 28w panels on e-bay



excited for my first LED grow

[leadmagnet]

Ouch, man. You're not going to get too large of a plant with that.

Just being honest. You might want to get your refund ASAP and invest in something better than the Lite-Brite panels.

If you really wished to be "honest" you would throw in a comment stating you are a LED vender too tryin to push his own stuff.

[neceros]

Man. I'm glad I found this thread. My greenouse is being built now, but i don't want to use ballasts and deal with cooing units, etc. LED lights might be exactly what I need. Doing lots of research into it now.

Thanks.

[seventhchild]

I'm probably gonna put together a DIY tutorial if anybody's interested in building their own light. Let me know, Hermie.if you have put out a tutorial i can't find it . got a link?

[khyberkitsune]

Any thoughts on this?
NEW 120 watt LED GROW LIGHT HYDROPONIC 120w 600 HPS UFO - eBay (item 120603667197 end time Aug-09-10 07:59:32 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-120-watt-LED-GROW-LIGHT-HYDROPONIC-120w-600-HPS-UFO-/120603667197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0)

Thanks!

I used to have an HTG LED panel - I threw it away. Worst waste of $250 ever.

It's no wonder they're selling it for just barely over 100 bucks - it's garbage.

[neceros]

I used to have an HTG LED panel - I threw it away. Worst waste of $250 ever.

It's no wonder they're selling it for just barely over 100 bucks - it's garbage.

Ok, thanks!

[craftsmaster]

A standard four-foot unit with two 40-watt bulbs -- or tubes -- illuminates an area about eight inches in width. A bright but overcast day measures about 1,000 foot-candles. By contrast, a bright, sunshiny day generates about 10,000 foot-candles.

Contrast this to fluorescent lights. At six inches from the source, you'll be receiving about 700 foot-candles. And when you're a foot from the light, the foot-candle measurement drops to 450.
__________________
Carmel Santos
CEO of Herb Gardening Guide (http://www.herbgardeningguide.com.au/)
Growing Herbs in Pots (http://www.herbgardeningguide.com.au/information-for-your-herb-garden/herbs-grown-in-pots/)
The Australian Guide to Herb Gardening

[khyberkitsune]

"Contrast this to fluorescent lights. At six inches from the source, you'll be receiving about 700 foot-candles."

With not only incident light meters, but typical garden foot-candle meters, I've never had lower than 1,200 foot candles from T5HO Fluorescent one foot from any T5Ho light, banked or individual.

And the highest I've seen is 2,500 foot candles from the same distance in laboratory conditions.

[krazyken]

Man. I'm glad I found this thread. My greenouse is being built now, but i don't want to use ballasts and deal with cooing units, etc. LED lights might be exactly what I need. Doing lots of research into it now.

Thanks.

I have developed a great ratio after discussions with Kyber. Ratio's of 7:1:1 will not give max yields or trichome development. Most peeps lights are generic high production lamps that are overly priced. Shop around and talk to the sellers by telephone, and ask questions. There are only 4 peak spectrums needed, and orange and white are not one of those.

Ken

[smokewhat1]

I'm probably gonna put together a DIY tutorial if anybody's interested in building their own light. Let me know, Hermie.

I have been trying to wrap my head around all of the things needed to make my own LED light system. If you are going to make a tutorial...I'm in!

[sheets91]

My spouse and I are arguing which is best. Please respond with examples

[brynpav]

On that site it says "We do not offer anything bright enough for general household lighting. LED bulbs are used for accent and other low light applications." They can't be appropriate for growing.

cannabis receptors reach saturation @ 1500-1800 micro-moles and will disregard any light outside the wavelength it is looking for at that particular time within it's growth cycle.

therefore the importance of quality and quantity of PAR light at the receptors cannot be understated. One of the things that I found LED's had difficulty achieving was, as nature would provide, photomorphogenesis wherin the spectrums, especially IR levels, would not be so narrow that the full yield inhibited by lack of enough energy in red and far red levels without having to create an LED lamp/driver combination that would rival HPS in wattage while being 4 x the price and needing 2 or 3 of them to cover the same area.

any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields. So while we all would like to find the holy grail of energy efficiency, lamp life, PAR spectrums there really is a much simpler way to go about it.

[khyberkitsune]

"any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields"

Which is to say, EXACTLY NOTHING.

Those other 'tests' are done by non-scientific, non-professional garage growers that are using a mass-produced copy of outdated 90s LED research.

Grams per kilowatt-hour, LED wins all day every day, across every crop ever tested in a truly professional and scientific setup.

Like this:

http://imgur.com/MQHJgl

To this:

http://imgur.com/9cNKt.jpg

To this:

http://imgur.com/hqn3Nl.jpg

All day, every day.

[Weezard]

Welcome Brynpav;:)

"any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields"

I disagree!
You sound well educated but appear to be mis-informed;

[attachment=o259848]
The middle "clone" is sun-grown.
Granted, all three are crappy, but that's my failing.
I'm not a good grower, but can't fault the leds.

[attachment=o259850]

Led buds in forground, sun buds in back

[attachment=o259851]
2 more weeks or so to go.


[attachment=o259849]
Out for a "tan" just before the chop.

Perhaps more research is in order?

"there really is a much simpler way to go about it. "

Intrigued, please expand on that.

Aloha,
Weezard (A non-professional garage grower):rastasmoke:

[brynpav]

Welcome Brynpav;:)

"any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields"

I disagree!
You sound well educated but appear to be mis-informed;

[attachment=o259848]
The middle "clone" is sun-grown.
Granted, all three are crappy, but that's my failing.
I'm not a good grower, but can't fault the leds.

[attachment=o259850]

Led buds in forground, sun buds in back

[attachment=o259851]
2 more weeks or so to go.


[attachment=o259849]
Out for a "tan" just before the chop.

Perhaps more research is in order?

"there really is a much simpler way to go about it. "

Intrigued, please expand on that.

Aloha,
Weezard (A non-professional garage grower):rastasmoke:

I'm a private grower having completed 2 grows now where I'd converted from HID to induction and the yields have been on par @ 300 g/m for the HID with a 60% savings in connected load. These are significantly less expensive to purchase and get up and running compared to the LED arrays as shown in these attachments.

Have you seen how healthy plants will veg under a 100 watt induction? it's remarkable. I currently have 8 of the 400 watt inda-gro lamps for flower and bud and really don't have a complaint I can site.

I have heard some horror stories about induction as well and initially only went in with an order of 1 400 and 1 100. I've heard the problems that people have had is that when they try and use these as an IP65 rated fixture which as growers we don't need that rating and the temperature within the fixture and our environments can create thermal overloads. But even so I had only heard of this occurring on the mland brand direct out of China.

I'm not here to dismiss the potential of LED for grow. I hope it does deliver but I've not seen the success from these lamps that the manufacturers I dealt with; UFO & HTG had claimed. I really had hoped they would lower the loads and still maintain yields but both of these fixtures had led failures within 2 months of having installed them. So far the inductions have been hassle free. :rastasmoke:

[knna]

cannabis receptors reach saturation @ 1500-1800 micro-moles and will disregard any light outside the wavelength it is looking for at that particular time within it's growth cycle.

Plants, cannabis included, uses all light into PAR at similar efficiency. They dont disgregard any specific wavelenght into PAR. Thats is an absolutely well proven fact.


therefore the importance of quality and quantity of PAR light at the receptors cannot be understated. One of the things that I found LED's had difficulty achieving was, as nature would provide, photomorphogenesis wherin the spectrums, especially IR levels, would not be so narrow that the full yield inhibited by lack of enough energy in red and far red levels without having to create an LED lamp/driver combination that would rival HPS in wattage while being 4 x the price and needing 2 or 3 of them to cover the same area.

Ive found photomorphogenesis to be way better controlled with LED light than when using any other type of light.

You decide exactly how many UV, IR and far red you provide your plants, allowing you to tune the lighting to the exact requeriments of a specific plant. Of course, if you do it bad, you can get worse results, but its not a limitation of LED lamps, but people misdesigning them or growers using them the wrong way.

Using more than one point source is not a limitation at all, but a large advantage. Improves penetration in typical indoor crowded canopies, achieves even light distribution, which enhances light efficacy. Avoid hot spots and areas underlit, typical of HID growing.


any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields. So while we all would like to find the holy grail of energy efficiency, lamp life, PAR spectrums there really is a much simpler way to go about it.

I would agreed if you have said "many growers" instead of "any grower" and skipped the "most advanced" lamps statement. Many crappy LED lamps out there, specially a pair years ago.

People tricked for dishonest LED sellers to believe they can get the same yield with 100W of LEDs than with 600W HPS (which is impossible) got dissapointing results.

But growers using good designed LED lamp systems are getting similar yields using near half watts, forgetting heat issues and getting way higher productivities (yield per input watts).


I have heard some horror stories about induction as well and initially only went in with an order of 1 400 and 1 100. I've heard the problems that people have had is that when they try and use these as an IP65 rated fixture which as growers we don't need that rating and the temperature within the fixture and our environments can create thermal overloads. But even so I had only heard of this occurring on the mland brand direct out of China.

Ive heard too horror stories about induction lamps reliability. Ballast heat is often underlooked by designers. And its clear than 95% induction lamp systems have a lower expected life for the ballast than for the bulb itself. Reliability stands for the whole system, and its very hard to find long term reliable induction lamps (reason of their limited market penetration).

But letting apart that topic, its true that its easier to get a good perfomance from induction lamps than from many currently on sale LED lamps. All induction lamps have similar efficiency, while LED lamps vary strongly from one to the another.

But perfomance gain of induction lamps is limited over HPS. Its a technology with very little improvement margin (except on reliability). Little spectrum advantage, similar energy efficiency, same problems with the need of using big lamps far from plants. Big bulbs that need to use big reflectors, often little efficient.

They work very well in veg. But LED lamps do it still better. Have you seen what 100W of good LEDs can achieve on veg? We are using it on 1 sq meter very sucessfully, replacing 400W MHs with 120W of LEDs or so and getting better growth rates yet

[Indagrojeff]

Hello all,

Iâ??m an electrical engineer working for Inda-Gro an Induction grow light manufacturer. Iâ??m a new poster to this site, but I thought it important to comment in areas of technical accuracy. I will refrain from promoting Inda-Gro products and focus only on the accuracy and importance of the post. Please feel free to ask any questions as appropriate.

First off, I would like to thank KNNA for the excellent postings; they are obviously well educated and versed in the subject manner. I wanted to address the stated issue that while the lamps may have a 100,000 hour life, the drivers do not. I disagree with this comment; if the drivers are properly designed for the application they should not have any issues with this stated life. Electronics generally are very reliable and have extremely long lives. If you look around your own homes Iâ??m sure you can find some items that are 10 to 20 years old and still work just fine. A sweeping statement that the driver in 95% of induction light systems will not meet the life requirements is inappropriate. First and most fundamental is that there is not nearly enough data to support this comment. How could it possibly be clear that 95% will not meet the life statement when there are not any systems that have been in place that long and there certainly have not been so many failures of existing units to base such a statement?

These products are relatively new to the market, so any failures we are seeing have to be associated with quality and design issues. This is basically the same thing the LED lighting industry went through in the beginning. There are several manufacturers of these products, so you cannot blame the entire industry for what is likely a problem with just a few. Knowing this, it is important to deal with a company that has a strong presence in your country. No product is perfect, failures will happen, thatâ??s just life, the difference is there someone to stand behind the product and take care of you in a timely fashion. Sending the product back to China for repair does not qualify, the country distributor/dealer/manufacturer needs to take care of you as locally as possible.

Have there been horror stories, Iâ??m sure there have, Iâ??ve heard some. One of our customers purchased an induction light from another manufacturer, the lamp was broken in shipping, both the dealer and the manufacturer refused to help the customer leaving him with a broken lamp that he could not use or repair. Here are my recommendations on this topic:

1. Do not purchase from a Chinese/Hong Kong drop shipper. They simply are not available to support you.
2. When purchasing from an in country dealer/manufacturer, make sure they are available to support the product. Ask about their warranty policies and the likely turnaround time of a repair.
3. Avoid products priced significantly less than similar competing products. There are reasons they are able to sell them cheaper and most of them are not good. That old adage â??you get what you pay forâ?� seems to hold pretty well.

I would like to comment on the general subject of electronics reliability and life since I have a lot of experience in this area. I have worked on NASA, DOD, Nuclear, and life support medical equipment, all of these requiring the highest degree of reliability.

One of differences today is the wide use of switching power supplies. Switching power supplies currently are the basis for nearly all of lighting industry drivers. Induction, LED, Metal Halide, and HPS electronic drivers are all based on a switching power supply. Switch power supplies have been around for a long time, their main advantage is that they are very efficient, 90 to 95%, where a typical linear power supply is only about 50% efficient. The reason switchers were not adopted earlier, is that they had poor reliability. They are very dynamic, switching at relatively high frequencies, constantly swinging voltage. As with all technologies, they evolve and improve with time, designs are fine-tuned and electronic component reliability has improved as manufacturing process have improved. Today a properly designed switching power supply has an acceptable reliability and life. The problem is that do to the dynamic nature, any design flaw or compromised component will likely show themselves fairly quickly.

Currently the biggest issue with switching power supplies is the quality of design, components, and manufacturing. We all know that nearly all of this type of manufacturing is currently done in China; we also know that there is a lot of variance in the quality of manufacturers. There are some very good manufacturers, but unfortunately there are some bad that just want to ride on the coat tails of those whom have already done the work. They just want to sell inferior product at cheap prices, often dropped shipped from Hong Kong or via a local dealer/distributor with the same compromised integrity. With these manufacturers and dealers you have a higher probability of product problems and in all likelihood you will have issues with the manufacturer or dealer resolving it. The bottom line is that you need to know who you are dealing with.

[brynpav]

A little over my head but thanks for your post and welcome to the site.

you have a schedule on your website Inda-GRO (http://inda-gro.com/gallery/album/9)that shows lumen depreciation over a variety of lamps with what appears to be a pretty obvious benefit of the induction lamp maintaining much longer life spans but more importantly at a relatively high average lumen output compared to other lamp types. are we really talking lamps that last that long?

By your data I was pretty surprised to see how fast all lamps will depreciate but wow do the metal halide fall off fast and I've spent more then a small fortune on re-lamps over the years. :rastasmoke:

On another note; have you or possibly anyone else here heard of these new LED's that are organic? They're being called OLED lamps as a solution to the HBLED lamps being too concentrated light output.

From what I understand they are being coated with a phosphor or polymer to better manage the optical distribution to better diffuse the light and resemble a fluorescent lamp while maintaining color stability in the process.

I realize this isn't an induction lighting question but then again it appears that if the OLED develops as an option which would completely eliminate the need for any lamp that requires inert gas mixes and Mercury to operate you would be interested in the science behind it.

If LED mfgs develop OLED lamps that will outperform other technologies then it creates greater acceptance in the marketplace especially of the price points come down as can be expected (Haitz's Law) and the new color quality scale (CQS) is adopted as an updated standard for weighting the hue and saturation levels of any lamp we consider buying.

Any ideas when the market may be seeing these OLED lamps at competitive prices?

[khyberkitsune]

"Any ideas when the market may be seeing these OLED lamps at competitive prices? "

Not any time soon. Blue OLEDs have a degradation problem, and the overall lifetime on an organic-based light source is rather poor at the moment. On the same note, output is quite limited.

[brynpav]

"Any ideas when the market may be seeing these OLED lamps at competitive prices? "

Not any time soon. Blue OLEDs have a degradation problem, and the overall lifetime on an organic-based light source is rather poor at the moment. On the same note, output is quite limited.

Are you referring to lumen output or production being limited? Is it fair to say that the main advantages of these newer OLED lamps will be better diffusion and greater color stability of hue and saturation as the market adoption of these type lamps would presumably be more favorable to these improvements. What are your thoughts? Is there any benefit to growers?

[khyberkitsune]

Are you referring to lumen output or production being limited? Is it fair to say that the main advantages of these newer OLED lamps will be better diffusion and greater color stability of hue and saturation as the market adoption of these type lamps would presumably be more favorable to these improvements. What are your thoughts? Is there any benefit to growers?

I am referring to the overall radiometric output of the OLED itself. It is not intense enough, and such tiny LEDs will not be bright enough for our purposes, not anytime in the near or foreseeable future.

Diffusion is not what we want. Photon flux is a ray, and you want more of them packed together, not more of them spread out. This is what we measure, the photon flux density. The more spread out it is, the smaller a plant we are able to grow as we cannot push enough light intensity far enough.

The whole reason for OLED is as an LCD screen replacement, nothing more, really. Lower power requirements plus a very tiny form factor (and dot pitch) makes it ideal for displays of all shapes, sizes, and resolutions.

[canniwhatsis]

"any grower having compared yields between the most advanced LED and the simple HPS will attest to the compromise in yields"

Which is to say, EXACTLY NOTHING.

Those other 'tests' are done by non-scientific, non-professional garage growers that are using a mass-produced copy of outdated 90s LED research.

Grams per kilowatt-hour, LED wins all day every day, across every crop ever tested in a truly professional and scientific setup.

I can attest to this! ;) Even tho I'm an unscientific "Garage grower" (well basement, but what ever ;) )


I'm doing a side by side HPS LED flower totally separate environments, both same strain, started at the same time.

Sure my HPS is going to give me a higher overall yield (Even tho I f'd up and double dosed that plant with nutes resulting in a lockout that she's still recovering from)

But the G/KWH into each grow, the LED (120w) is going to SMOKE the HPS! (600w)

Plus there does seem to be a slight difference in quality....... The strain is Blueberry, and every one I've pulled under the HPS has been sweet smelling, slightly citrus, with just a "hint" of skunky....... Under the LED when you put your snoot right in the bud it smells like a bowl full of berrys! :eek: :cool: :pimp: I can't wait for the smoke off of this experiment.

[Indagrojeff]

A little over my head but thanks for your post and welcome to the site.

you have a schedule on your website Inda-GRO (http://inda-gro.com/gallery/album/9)that shows lumen depreciation over a variety of lamps with what appears to be a pretty obvious benefit of the induction lamp maintaining much longer life spans but more importantly at a relatively high average lumen output compared to other lamp types. are we really talking lamps that last that long?

By your data I was pretty surprised to see how fast all lamps will depreciate but wow do the metal halide fall off fast and I've spent more then a small fortune on re-lamps over the years. :rastasmoke:

On another note; have you or possibly anyone else here heard of these new LED's that are organic? They're being called OLED lamps as a solution to the HBLED lamps being too concentrated light output.

From what I understand they are being coated with a phosphor or polymer to better manage the optical distribution to better diffuse the light and resemble a fluorescent lamp while maintaining color stability in the process.

I realize this isn't an induction lighting question but then again it appears that if the OLED develops as an option which would completely eliminate the need for any lamp that requires inert gas mixes and Mercury to operate you would be interested in the science behind it.

If LED mfgs develop OLED lamps that will outperform other technologies then it creates greater acceptance in the marketplace especially of the price points come down as can be expected (Haitz's Law) and the new color quality scale (CQS) is adopted as an updated standard for weighting the hue and saturation levels of any lamp we consider buying.

Any ideas when the market may be seeing these OLED lamps at competitive prices?

Hi Brynpav

A little slow getting back to this forum so forgive me any delays as I've been pretty slammed.

I'll respond in the order you've questioned. The lumen deprecation schedule we provided does make a pretty good case for the average lumen output of these lights being above 90% until the 70,000 hour mark whereby it then will gradually fall to the 70% mark at around a 100,000 hours.

As to the OLED question I have some opinions of this technology but would differ to khyberkitsune who looks to have a deeper background in LED/OLED development. However there does appear to be a field of research devoted to seeing the OLED lamps used in high output area lighting applications.

I would refer you to a recent article in the October 2010 EC&M, that discusses the high output advantages of OLED technology which may someday be of some interest to the botanical market but it's certainly way to early to tell what if any those applications may be.

Thank you for your comments.

[knna]

First off, I would like to thank KNNA for the excellent postings; they are obviously well educated and versed in the subject manner. I wanted to address the stated issue that while the lamps may have a 100,000 hour life, the drivers do not. I disagree with this comment; if the drivers are properly designed for the application they should not have any issues with this stated life. Electronics generally are very reliable and have extremely long lives. If you look around your own homes Iâ??m sure you can find some items that are 10 to 20 years old and still work just fine. A sweeping statement that the driver in 95% of induction light systems will not meet the life requirements is inappropriate. First and most fundamental is that there is not nearly enough data to support this comment. How could it possibly be clear that 95% will not meet the life statement when there are not any systems that have been in place that long and there certainly have not been so many failures of existing units to base such a statement?

I do not work with induction lights, so I would like to be drastic about their technical performance. I depend on this of what engineers working in the field tell me, not of first hand experience.

For what I understood, induction ballast problem is not due to converting AC input to energy used by the induction unit. This is managed by many electronic converters today at very high efficiencies. For long lives, only when spending on it, most Power Supplies expected life strongly depends of operating temperatures. When working on hot environments, as usually ballast on induction lights do, if you dont use expensive components, likely average life is well below 50Kh, often just 20Kh.

So PS life is strongly dependent of components used, and as far as I know, no any horticultural lamp in the market uses high quality, hot temperature rated components. Although technically possible, I have solid doubts any induction light on sale currently for the horticultural market use a PS with an actual expected life over 50Kh. Just a guess, but I believe that actually, majority of them are way shorter.

The main problem for induction lights, for what those working on them told me, is the low coupling efficency of coils used on the own induction process. Very low, with very high losses, minimal 25%. This seems to be the main problem and what lead to the big manufacturers to give up with this technology and follow other research paths. Those losses mean lots of heat, and heat is always a problem for reliability.

I agree with you that properly designed and built induction lamps may have its place and could be an excellent solutions for many cases. But market push for lower prices hard, and in this situation is not easy to offer it. Usually you get what you paid for, and I think most people are not willing to pay what a good designed and build with high quality components induction lamp cost

[khyberkitsune]

We could easily fix induction lighting losses if we could find a proper diamagnetic back shield and design a linear induction tube with waveguides built into the glass.

The ballast, on the other hand, yes that's not happening any time soon. Cheap market is most definitely the reason for this.

[khyberkitsune]

LED Grow Lights(include UFO Grow light, Panel grow light, Plant grow tube) from 7w up to 1200w of power that are perfect for growing lights.

*SMACK* BAD BOY! NO ADVERTISING ON THE FLOOR!

Aren't you housebroken???

[clongo]

im trying to part out two arrays with the best ppfd per watt for one with 12000k, 425 nm 440nm and one with 630nm and 660 nm. I don't know anything about heat sinks needed per diode or how to run them for maximum life while still getting a total of 1500ppfd on a 2.5x3 cabinet scrog. looking for bud depth layer (not starkly pruned below) of 2-2.5 to feet. I think a combination of lenses 90 and 60 degree would be good but I have no idea.

[Colorado Grower]

You can get a great deal on LED grow lights at
http:growlightsbyallled.com

[khyberkitsune]

im trying to part out two arrays with the best ppfd per watt for one with 12000k, 425 nm 440nm and one with 630nm and 660 nm. I don't know anything about heat sinks needed per diode or how to run them for maximum life while still getting a total of 1500ppfd on a 2.5x3 cabinet scrog. looking for bud depth layer (not starkly pruned below) of 2-2.5 to feet. I think a combination of lenses 90 and 60 degree would be good but I have no idea.

You're not telling us where you want that 1500 PPFD. How far away from the light do you want that sort of intensity? A good new 1,000w HPS will put that out about 2-3 feet away, which means 1-1.5 feet from the bulb you're hitting bleaching levels of photons.

[silent leprechaun]

Hey guys,
I am becoming a big fan of LED lighting.
I have started my first ever LED grow log.
You can find it on here or on my word.press page. I update both together.
I am using a Pro-Grow 260 and 4 x 20w CFL. The CFL are just for heat purposes.
Have a look and let me know what you think. Hopefully the bloom will go ok. I hope so.

Here it is: LED LOGGER (http://ledlogger.wordpress.com/)

You can find it here under LED grow log testing the Pro-Grow 260

I hope you enjoy it. I will be blooming in just 5 days from now.

Ill give the plants 36 hours of darkness to kick start them into the phase.

Let me know what you think.

Take care.

[Psyz]

Hi all, long time reader but first time poster. First of all thanks to all the regular poster, weezard, oldmac, headshake etcâ?¦I have just spent the last week looking over this thread and others. For some time I have been an outdoor grower but due to changing living arrangements this is no long practical so Iâ??ve decided to make the move inside. My major concern with indoor growing is the substantial amount of power required, particularly when I have worked hard to minimise power draw elsewhere in the house; which has lead me to the idea of using LEDâ??s. I was hoping to do a little thinking out loud and hope some of the experts can offer some advice bearing in mind this is just the beginning of a long learning curve for meâ?¦Thanks in advance!What Iâ??m hoping to do is connect a 200-300watt solar panel to set of deep cycle marine batteries. These batteries will be charged with a Hybrid MPPT Controller that can provide charging via AC when the sun isnâ??t shinning.

From these batteries I hope to run a DIY LED light that I hope to learn to make in the coming months. One of the greatest struggle has been trying to determine the best ratio of red:blue from many different sources. The diodes Iâ??m thinking of running are:
RED: 625nm
660nm
720nm (Possibly?)

BLUE: 460nm
400nm

I hope to have these lights running on dimmers so I can use the same light for veg and flowering and the total power use to be around 150-200W. What ratios would the experts recommend, 7:1 Veg 1:4 Flowering? Also I hear many different recommendations for diode wattage some say 1w is better others 3w others 15watt. Iâ??m currently leaning towards the 15watt Weezard approach.
Once iv decided on wattage I can work on sourcing a heatsink, some PC fans with temp sensor and some drivers. While researching drivers I came across an article on instructables that provides a guide to making a constant current source for powering LEDâ??sâ?¦What do you think (just realised turmoil had the same idea? Its all jibberish to me at the moment but I hope to brush up on my electronics theory in the near future.


I was looking around the web and found two 'instructables' regarding wiring up high powered LEDs thought you guys would be interested.

Circuits for high powered LEDS (http://www.instructables.com/id/Circuits-for-using-High-Power-LED_s/)

:jointsmile:

I apologise for the long winded approach, iv been smoking and thinking about the idea too much and needed to put the sloshing around quires and ideas on paper. Thanks for taking the time and happy growing ;)

[maruid]

I have a buncha LED bulbs at my house for general lighting. most of them i ordered from dealextreme.com or meritline.com big purverors of china manufactured products. just search "led bulb" on either site. I cant even grow a front lawn, by no means do I have a green thumb but i see issues with LEDs because

A - they are COLD, they dont seem to generate any heat at all, and if i recall correctly plants need heat (unless there is another heat source, but in nature the light source is the heat source)

B - Manufacturing consistency. I have ordered lights in groups and individually, it dosen't seem to matter. I can tell different "batches" make different light

my 2c - maybe worth less :)

[mmjman]

I guess what you did not realize is NASA actually uses LED's on the space station for all horticulture experiments.

[Douglas1]

I just bought two blackstar 240's completely on accident.. so, hopefully once I can, I'll have a pretty interesting grow log.. coupled with my other 240 flowering. I know they are not the best, but 300 some watts of pure led light is going to make something happen growth-wise regardless

[Native¥organicfarmer]

About to purchase my second set of led ...........
works great love them they supplement my 8khid/hps nothing compares.....
LIGHT EQUALS MASS PERIOD.......
choosing higher quality units looking for 240..... voltage ...

hell i figure my growing my own medication has gone to far......way to much money...new post.....

[pipesdaddy]

Thw word is convenience. You should pick up the things which is comaptible with your test.

[Shadowskunkskankin]

Led IS the way forwards :thumbsup:! But with out a doubt is there not enough penetration:mad: , undergrowth just doesn't get enough , you would have to have LEDs for all angles to get some REAL results. $$$$$$$$$$ :wtf:

[sideshowmel]

To Psyz;

Having made a lighting system of roughly the power you're considering, I thought you might like to know what I found to be the most difficult part of the design, which is cooling.

A normal metal vapour lamp may produce more heat than an LED with the same number of optical watts in the PAR areas, but a metal vapour lamp can also withstand a lot more heat. A glass bulb can hit a couple of hundred degrees C without a problem, but an LED will start to lose brightness, efficiency and have a decreased lifetime if run at 60 or more.

I believe this is probably the part most people get wrong.

The biggest module I used was 50W, as a 7x7 grid of chips covered in silicone and mounted on a metal plate. I found two ways to keep the die temperature low enough. One is a cpu heatsink and fan (made of 5mm copper plate and 30 densely packed 1mm thick copper fins) which was designed to cool a 120w cpu. I ran the 12v fan fan at 7.5v as the heatsink was a little too big, so the noise level was better than full speed. The other was a natural convection heatsink (no fan) made of extruded aluminium with widely spaced fins. It measured about 20x15x5 cm. In both cases the led modules were stuck on with thermal epoxy. Small bolts, spring clips and thermal silicone grease would also work if you want them removable.

If you are a decent plumber, and have the tools and inclination, soldering (very) flat copper plates onto square tube and running a convection loop full of water and anti corrosion fluid to an external (car?) radiator would also work well if people's water cooled pc projects are anything to go by.

The bottom line is that LEDs need as much or more cooling per watt as CPUs do, because they need to run cooler to get full benefit from them.

As far as the cost, electricity usage and so on, it depends partly on where you live. All of the waste energy from the lights is heat, so if you're in a cold climate the lights' waste can be taken off the cost of your heating bill (notwithstanding the difference in price between electricity and gas), as long as the lights' coolant air (or liquid) is separate from the enclosure where the smells are.

[sideshowmel]

The circuit is not one I'd recommend. It won't be very efficient, as evidenced by the large (in relation to lamp wattage) resistor. That component is to turn "spare" electricity into heat. It would be better to use a switching regulator, although I haven't looked at what dc-dc circuits and parts are available. Even the crude hack of plugging in an inverter and running mains voltage LED power packs would probably be more efficient than a linear (big resistor) regulator in many situations.

Chances are there's an ideal solution where you get LEDs in modules at voltages of multiples of minimum battery current and then use a constant current dc-dc converter with variable duty cycle pulse width modulation and solid state components.

Regarding the red/blue ratio, the figures I calculated by comparing the absorption spectra of the known light-sensitive compounds to the surface sunlight spectrum are as follows;


1 part uv
5 parts blue (439 469)
30 parts red (642)
4 parts deep red (667)
1 part infra red (735)

The wavelengths are usually rounded to the nearest 5, so the options I saw at the time were; 365nm uv, 455nm blue, 640nm red 660nm deep red 735nm infra red.

There is a problem though, because these figures are for optical watts, not electrical watts. For a complete calculation you also need the % efficiency of that wavelength and brand of LED (yep, they're all different) to work out how many electrical watts you need for each optical watt. If you're ordering cheap ones from china it's partly guesswork.

As far as the colour balance at different points in the light cycle, it may make a difference, but I've seen no evidence of that (I invite references to any material which shows otherwise). I'd suggest the best way to achieve a change in ratio is to wired up the difference between the 'seasons' as separate circuits and switch one set off and on to vary. Making the whole lot dimmable seems like more complexity and inefficiency than it's worth.

[sideshowmel]

One more thing, as far as I could tell, most researchers don't believe we know every frequency plants use. The methods used to discover what frequencies are absorbed by what substance, and whether the substance is altered by that absorption, are not precise enough to detect the light spectrum equivalent of 'micronutrients'. It is entirely possible that some obscure frequency is liked by plants as a fraction too small for us to yet detect. Therefore I have assumed in previous experiments it is sensible to mix in some broad spectrum whites, such as the daylight coloured ones with yellow phosphor on a blue chip.

[Weezard]

"The circuit is not one I'd recommend. It won't be very efficient, as evidenced by the large (in relation to lamp wattage) resistor. That component is to turn "spare" electricity into heat."

Don't be misled by the resistor wattage.
That is a "sense" resistor, and it's less than half an ohm.

That component is used to create a voltage drop.
V. = I. x R.
0.47 Ω at 2A. = 0.94V.

It is a tad oversized to limit it's heating.
Heat increases resistance.

That voltage drop is applied to the sense lead of a voltage regulator.
But, because the sense voltage tracks the current, we have tricked a cheap voltage regulator into performing current regulation.

In short, very little power is wasted in that resistor.
Less than 2 Watts at 2 Amps
P = I. x V.
2.0A. x 0.94V. = 1.88W.
This regulator circuit works very well with battery power.

Just a couple 'lectronic pennies.

Aloha,
Weezard

[sideshowmel]

In short, very little power is wasted in that resistor.


2 Watts wastage seems acceptable, the more leds you had on it the less significant that would be.

Now I look at the article properly I can see there are various different circuits described, the first being more in the way of an introductory "what not to do". Mainly I was just prejudiced by the unusually large resistor, should have read the whole thing first.

The second to last configuration reminds me of something I used to drive the backlight leds on a phone screen.

Very interesting, despite unfair first impression.

[sandylaser]

I used to have an HTG LED panel - I threw it away. Worst waste of $250 ever.

It's no wonder they're selling it for just barely over 100 bucks - it's garbage.

hi so what kind of light do you use currently?

[MG.Snake]

i have dumb quetion. . .(idk anything about lamps)


940nm, 850nm, 660nm, 630nm, 610nm, 590nm
570nm, 530nm, 510nm, 470nm, 460nm, 400nm

what is nm ???is that size of the LED lamp?


for good growing you need blue, red and deep red spectrum.
whats differences between normal led and full spectrum led?
can i just use normal LED Lights?

[PuffPuffPassDragon]

So the most recent post dates back to 8/2012 - Where is current LED technology as it relates to MJ growth? Any recommendations?

PPP-Dragon

[Weezard]

i have dumb quetion. . .(idk anything about lamps)


what is nm ???is that size of the LED lamp?

No, it's the wavelength of the light they emit.
Read.


whats differences between normal led and full spectrum led?
can i just use normal LED Lights?

Um, partial spectrum/full spectrum and you are correct, these questions do border on dumb.
Please read.

Your last question is well answered right here, all you need do, is read it, yah?

Aloha and good luck,
Weezard

[Weezard]

So the most recent post dates back to 8/2012 - Where is current LED technology as it relates to MJ growth? Any recommendations?

PPP-Dragon

Sorry brah, dunno.

Once the hucksters arrived with the band wars, missing chords, super high-res dahoozit, horse exhaust, I moved on.
Already had a light that worked very well so the rest is marketing hype.
Still have that light, still working well!

Who has time for hype?

I'd say, look for a quality built, bi-chroic , array with at least one of the colors adjustable.
Grows great buds.

Aloha,
Weeze

[PuffPuffPassDragon]

Weezard,

I can't find a dimmable Blue or Red LED array. I am thinking I may have to get 2 different LED banks (1 for veg [blue], 1 for flower[red]). I've read poor reviews for Dorm Lights G8. decent reviews re: Kind. Who is is out there in the LED Grow light world for MMJ/MJ?

PPP~Dragon

[Weezard]

Left you a rep comment in the other thread.

The last decent commercial light that I saw, was made by Lumigrow.
Can't pimp it, because I haven't used it.
But reviews and side by sides are very good.
And they are still around!

If I was in the market, and had any cash, it's the one I'd try.
I do endorse the science of it

Aloha.
Wee

[PuffPuffPassDragon]

Weezard,

Roger that, I will research Lumigrow.

PPP~Dragon


Left you a rep comment in the other thread.

The last decent commercial light that I saw, was made by Lumigrow.
Can't pimp it, because I haven't used it.
But reviews and side by sides are very good.
And they are still around!

If I was in the market, and had any cash, it's the one I'd try.
I do endorse the science of it

Aloha.
Wee

[PuffPuffPassDragon]

Weezard,

Roger that, I will research Lumigrow.

So Lumigrow has the Pro 325 and the 650. So what area do you think the 325 could effectively grow? 650?

PPP~Dragon


Left you a rep comment in the other thread.

The last decent commercial light that I saw, was made by Lumigrow.
Can't pimp it, because I haven't used it.
But reviews and side by sides are very good.
And they are still around!

If I was in the market, and had any cash, it's the one I'd try.
I do endorse the science of it

Aloha.
Wee