zooted999
09-30-2005, 09:47 PM
Be warned-- the following conversation with an acquanitance about pot legalization may be more than you can handle. You've been warned:
M: my perception about pot has shifted 180 in the last year.
o: yea?
o: what about it?
M: i approve of it greatly. i think it's very dumb to abuse it, but i think it should be legal for a plurality of reasons.
o: medical reasons
M: medical reasons, and if it was legal, you wouldn't have gang violence over it and people would want it less. prohibition makes people want things more.
o: yeah , i agree on that
M: medicinal reasons are really important tho-- people suffering from glaucoma and arthritis can easily solace themselves with it.
o: but once its legal people will go crazy over it
M: at first, but then consumption will go down.
o: i think for medical reasons its allowed
M: just like in Canada and Amsterdam, when they decriminalized it, consumption went up and then went down drastically soon thereafter.
o: right
o: like in europe with alcohol
M: or speed limits
o: but here once some people hit 21 they splurge
M: yepp-- some Americans are really bad examples, tho. we tend to abuse a bunch of shit, and it really fucks things up.
o: yeah totally
M: ultimately tho, it's a natural plant that will grow whether or not we want it to somewhere, some time. in addition it's medicinal, and it's never killed anyone, yet it's prohibited.
M: it's getting more and more recognition tho, which is good. and everybody can attest to the monumental failure of the War on Drugs.
o: but the public cant be trusted with it
o: not everybody has common sense
M: lol, but we still legalize cigarrettes, perscription drugs, alcohol--- things that kill people by the hundreds of thousands are legal, you might as well make something beneficial legal.
M: caffeine, refined sugars, all that shit.
o: lol yeah
o: those are big businesses
M: yep, big businesses that kill hundreds of thousands of people yearly. pot kills nobody ever, and yet.. illegal. in fact, in the 16th, 17th centuries it was a legal obligation to grow hemp.
M: it's a waste of time to fight it, they should focus on real drug problems like meth.
M: but, it is a threat to big companies, which is probably why it's still illegal.
M: i don't think it has much to do with the health factors.
M: otherwise cigarettes would be illegal.
o: yeah those big companies wouldnt bother with marijuana since theres enough pain killers as it is
M: do you know what constitutes and illegal drug from a legal drug?
o: marijuana could become as dangerous as all these things that have been messed with
M: how so?
o: nothing ever stays in its pure state
M: but that's too vague an argument. if that were the case, nothing would be legal.
M: at the very least, if it's legalized, you can grow it in yourbackyard.. something you can't do with other drugs, and it'll be in its pure state.
o: things are tweaked and changed to get more out of it, companies alter to it to gain an advantage in sales from someone else
M: but that's with everything. however, i would much rather buy my weed from a government-approved Walgreens than from a friend who got it from a friend who sprayed it down with pesticides.
o: because corportations wouldnt use pesticides , what about the farm factories
o: corportations wouldnt make it better
o: its all about profits
M: but that can't be the basis for your argument, because then you can't really buy groceries.
o: dude i dont wanna argue with ya =P
o: lol
M: everything is somewhat fucked with, ultimately tho, i'd prefer getting it from a liscensed store.
M: lol, than from Pablo on 63rd.
o: lol
o: yeah i remember seeing some marijuana plants at some dudes house
o: it did not look too good
M: growing at home is very dangerous now. i think the minimum sentence for cultivation is like 3 years.
o: but the thing with groceries
o: i NEED food
o: not weed
o: whoa
o: what your asking for might actually be worse
o: they dont honestly care about your health
M: how about if all drugs were legal, gang violence over drugs would stop and there would be no more dealers packing pistols and shit selling there wares to children.
o: there is always good and evil
o: even if all that was legal
o: all those drugs
o: who is to say something else would come out
o: something new
o: something illegal
o: then it will start all over again
o: the cycle and its always replaced with something worse
M: but then no progress is made, and we're left with whatever we have now.
M: so steps have to be taken.
o: its better to have what we have now than to invite something possibly worse
M: but it's not possibly worse, pot legalization is very much beneficial.
o: i think people are just afraid or getting caught
o: of*
M: of course they are, bc they get jailed if they're caught.
o: yeah so its a selfish motive for it to be legal
M: i'm not getting you
o: it obviously wasnt that beneficial because u didnt fight for it back when you didnt agree with pot or didnt smoke it?(im not assuming that u do) but it obviously wasnt the miracle drug
o: but if u do , what a surprise that you are fighting for it now
M: not neccessarily-- just bc i thought something then, doesn't mean i wasn't ill-informed.
M: i can't live with my 16 year old convictions just bc i used to think a certain way, once.
M: ultimately, legalizing it will get rid of many, many problems. that's all the reason i need to think it should be legalized.
o: this is just my opinion but i think these are false lies and a superficial fight for the greater good b/c it comes to just selfish motives
M: what, that pot should be legalized?
o: plus ive known people with cancer that have been allowed to use pot for the pain relief
o: it does nothing else
o: it doesnt cure
o: its just to fuck up your mind
o: and not pay attention to the pain
o: what a great drug it is
o: another pain reliever instead of fighting for the amazon forest where in a single acre there are hundreds of thousands of plants that have potential to do us some real good to cute and not just another pain reliever
M: i'd like to be enlightened as to how pot fucks up your mind.
M: George Carlin was an everyday, several times a day pothead for 30 years ... i don't exactly think his mind is fucked.
o: it messes with your nerves
M: like ensuring an appetite and a good night's sleep?
M: generally speaking-- do you think nature creates things that are detrimental for our health?
o: of course
o: go get bitten by a snake lol
o: rub some poison ivy on ya
o: skin infections
o: poisonous fruits can kill you
M: well besides the fact that snake venom is a defense mechanism, and all that, why are you so steadfast on saving things like the rainforests which have many agents that cause things like cancer?
m: and besides a nature-grown pain reliever, what other benefits can plants have?
M: they can't make you smarter.
M: your argument is ill-founded bc you simultaneously want to protect something which creates something you don't approve of.
o: we dont know yet, our science has plenty of room to develop
M: another question-- things like poison ivy, poisonous fruits-- do you think they were deliberately created by nature to harm us?
o: why not, its their protection
M: really? that's their purpose, to harm us?
o: if you believe in evolution then we are harmful to them
o: and naturally will create something to defend against us
M: those things would be HIV and cancer.
M: not plants.
o: no in its basic form its enough to teach us to stay away
M: how many people die of poison ivy and poisonous fruit that it just had to have been created in a dire need to protect itself.
o: havent u noticed everything in nature warns us
o: why wouldnt a plant be enough to warn us with that
M: because a plant isn't effective enough to kill off what nature wants it to.
M: cancer is
M: HIV is
M: small pox is
M: things like poison ivy? i doubt that, strongly.
M: i doubt poison ivy's purpose is to harm humans.
M: otherwise, why were we even created?
o: a plant can kill an insect killing it, with that small point
o: im not a true botanist
o: i doubt pot was created in mind
o: for us to smoke it
M: you doubt a natural herb was created for our benefit?
M: if there's something creates to harm us, shouldn't there be something to protect us?
o: you and i have our opinions, neither one can win this
o: so why continue with this anymore?
M: what hasn't changed?
o: our opinions
o: or the world
M: the world's opinion is changing.
M: the House of Reps vote for medical marijuana legalization came in record numbers in June, 161-264. all they need is 57 more votes and medical marijuana is legal-- opinions are changing.
o: the world is being more tolerant
M: right, as they should be.
m: outlawing a plant seems dumb, no?
o: those people will sell their souls for votes
o: if thats what the people say
o: they will do it
o: but it will never have anything to do with science
o: look at stell cem research
o: grow new organs for us
o: but no
o: popular believe its not morally right
o: so hey we dont it
o: despite all science backing it
M: right, politicians are corrupt, but the noise over pot is getting it the attention it needs, as eventually stem cell research will as well.
o: politicians are idiots easily wayed by the mob
o: swayed*
M: as they should be
M: that's what a democracy is
M: something wayed by the mob
M: i just think it's a bit ironic coming from a nature-defender, that you think we should outlaw a naturally growing plant.
o: a single man has reason
o: a mob has none
M: i disagree
o: i am a nature defender
o: to keep things from being killed
o: cut down
o: but something from being illegal is not being cut down , abused,or killed
o: its just not being messed with which for me is okay
o: and there are more important things than fighting for weed
M: well, if the plant really didn't want anybody messing with it, don't you think it would've displayed this by atleast killing 1 person?
M: even after chronic consumption?
M: and fighting for weed is very important, btw.
M: more people are being jailed for pot than for any other reason.
M: this costs billions of dollars, ruins homes and families simply bc somebody wanted to smoke a naturally-growing plant.
M: overall crime went down, but jails are still packed bc of marijuana offenders.
M: this is a very serious problem and goes way beyond something as simple as, "weed shouldn't be fought for right now."
o: i dont even wanna imagine what society would be like if pot were legalized, no control, people are idiots
M: i believe i'm stating this fact righ-- before the DEA focused on medical marijuana users, the jail percentage of pot offenders was 25%. since their cut down it shot to 60%.
M: how would society be? calm and complacent?
o: but there are other things that can make u calm and complacent
o: music
M: no gang violence, no drug dealers?
o: chocolate
o: lol
M: this is bad for society?
o: yeah that would be the good side of it
o: but like i said
o: everything has its good and evil
o: it changes people thats for sure
M: don't you think pain-relieved arthritis and glaucoma patients, the end of gang violence and drug dealing is a pretty good thing that outweighs the contrary?
M: yeah, it makes people get along.
o: a friend ive had , smokes pot now and now shes totally different, you can see it in her eyes , the way she talks , acts , very slow
o: dependant on that shit
M: first off, pot dependancy is strictly psychological and is all up to a person's character. second, simply bc a minority abuses something, is this a reason to ban it for the majority?
o: yeah , not everyone is as smart you in that sense
o: a lot of people would become dependant on that
o: in order to be happy
o: its illegal for a reason
o: not everybody has common sense
o: how can a parent justify
o: that his 12 year old shouldnt be doing it?
M: that's not why it's illegal.
o: dont you see in your eyes it seems to make sense
o: but the world isnt that simple
M: generally speaking, some people died driving cars because they were speeding, why don't we outlaw cars?
M: most people don't have common sense?
o: its pretty much necessary
o: weed isnt
o: yeah most people dont
M: why is it necessary?
o: becuase we live in a big city
M: it fucks up our o-zone, doesn't it?
o: yeah
o: again has to do with the corporations
o: we could use more hybrid cards
M: well, i'm side tracking-- let's talk about speeding accidents.
o: but then gas companies would go down
o: lol
M: some people speed, get in car accidents and die. this is a minority of people. but most people don't, so outlawing it would seem extremely unfair, don't you think?
o: no
o: im sorry i just dont find it beneficial
o: or necessary
o: ive tried it , was no big deal
M: well, i can't make it any simpler other than to say i think your very wrong. but that's me, and that's that.
o: yep
M: brb
o: k
o: we both think we are wrong and cannot convince the other lol
o: ugh potheads piss me off, the main reason why they want marijuana legal so much is out of FEAR, they are scared to get their asses busted by the cops, they dont really care about medical reasons , its just a front
M: my perception about pot has shifted 180 in the last year.
o: yea?
o: what about it?
M: i approve of it greatly. i think it's very dumb to abuse it, but i think it should be legal for a plurality of reasons.
o: medical reasons
M: medical reasons, and if it was legal, you wouldn't have gang violence over it and people would want it less. prohibition makes people want things more.
o: yeah , i agree on that
M: medicinal reasons are really important tho-- people suffering from glaucoma and arthritis can easily solace themselves with it.
o: but once its legal people will go crazy over it
M: at first, but then consumption will go down.
o: i think for medical reasons its allowed
M: just like in Canada and Amsterdam, when they decriminalized it, consumption went up and then went down drastically soon thereafter.
o: right
o: like in europe with alcohol
M: or speed limits
o: but here once some people hit 21 they splurge
M: yepp-- some Americans are really bad examples, tho. we tend to abuse a bunch of shit, and it really fucks things up.
o: yeah totally
M: ultimately tho, it's a natural plant that will grow whether or not we want it to somewhere, some time. in addition it's medicinal, and it's never killed anyone, yet it's prohibited.
M: it's getting more and more recognition tho, which is good. and everybody can attest to the monumental failure of the War on Drugs.
o: but the public cant be trusted with it
o: not everybody has common sense
M: lol, but we still legalize cigarrettes, perscription drugs, alcohol--- things that kill people by the hundreds of thousands are legal, you might as well make something beneficial legal.
M: caffeine, refined sugars, all that shit.
o: lol yeah
o: those are big businesses
M: yep, big businesses that kill hundreds of thousands of people yearly. pot kills nobody ever, and yet.. illegal. in fact, in the 16th, 17th centuries it was a legal obligation to grow hemp.
M: it's a waste of time to fight it, they should focus on real drug problems like meth.
M: but, it is a threat to big companies, which is probably why it's still illegal.
M: i don't think it has much to do with the health factors.
M: otherwise cigarettes would be illegal.
o: yeah those big companies wouldnt bother with marijuana since theres enough pain killers as it is
M: do you know what constitutes and illegal drug from a legal drug?
o: marijuana could become as dangerous as all these things that have been messed with
M: how so?
o: nothing ever stays in its pure state
M: but that's too vague an argument. if that were the case, nothing would be legal.
M: at the very least, if it's legalized, you can grow it in yourbackyard.. something you can't do with other drugs, and it'll be in its pure state.
o: things are tweaked and changed to get more out of it, companies alter to it to gain an advantage in sales from someone else
M: but that's with everything. however, i would much rather buy my weed from a government-approved Walgreens than from a friend who got it from a friend who sprayed it down with pesticides.
o: because corportations wouldnt use pesticides , what about the farm factories
o: corportations wouldnt make it better
o: its all about profits
M: but that can't be the basis for your argument, because then you can't really buy groceries.
o: dude i dont wanna argue with ya =P
o: lol
M: everything is somewhat fucked with, ultimately tho, i'd prefer getting it from a liscensed store.
M: lol, than from Pablo on 63rd.
o: lol
o: yeah i remember seeing some marijuana plants at some dudes house
o: it did not look too good
M: growing at home is very dangerous now. i think the minimum sentence for cultivation is like 3 years.
o: but the thing with groceries
o: i NEED food
o: not weed
o: whoa
o: what your asking for might actually be worse
o: they dont honestly care about your health
M: how about if all drugs were legal, gang violence over drugs would stop and there would be no more dealers packing pistols and shit selling there wares to children.
o: there is always good and evil
o: even if all that was legal
o: all those drugs
o: who is to say something else would come out
o: something new
o: something illegal
o: then it will start all over again
o: the cycle and its always replaced with something worse
M: but then no progress is made, and we're left with whatever we have now.
M: so steps have to be taken.
o: its better to have what we have now than to invite something possibly worse
M: but it's not possibly worse, pot legalization is very much beneficial.
o: i think people are just afraid or getting caught
o: of*
M: of course they are, bc they get jailed if they're caught.
o: yeah so its a selfish motive for it to be legal
M: i'm not getting you
o: it obviously wasnt that beneficial because u didnt fight for it back when you didnt agree with pot or didnt smoke it?(im not assuming that u do) but it obviously wasnt the miracle drug
o: but if u do , what a surprise that you are fighting for it now
M: not neccessarily-- just bc i thought something then, doesn't mean i wasn't ill-informed.
M: i can't live with my 16 year old convictions just bc i used to think a certain way, once.
M: ultimately, legalizing it will get rid of many, many problems. that's all the reason i need to think it should be legalized.
o: this is just my opinion but i think these are false lies and a superficial fight for the greater good b/c it comes to just selfish motives
M: what, that pot should be legalized?
o: plus ive known people with cancer that have been allowed to use pot for the pain relief
o: it does nothing else
o: it doesnt cure
o: its just to fuck up your mind
o: and not pay attention to the pain
o: what a great drug it is
o: another pain reliever instead of fighting for the amazon forest where in a single acre there are hundreds of thousands of plants that have potential to do us some real good to cute and not just another pain reliever
M: i'd like to be enlightened as to how pot fucks up your mind.
M: George Carlin was an everyday, several times a day pothead for 30 years ... i don't exactly think his mind is fucked.
o: it messes with your nerves
M: like ensuring an appetite and a good night's sleep?
M: generally speaking-- do you think nature creates things that are detrimental for our health?
o: of course
o: go get bitten by a snake lol
o: rub some poison ivy on ya
o: skin infections
o: poisonous fruits can kill you
M: well besides the fact that snake venom is a defense mechanism, and all that, why are you so steadfast on saving things like the rainforests which have many agents that cause things like cancer?
m: and besides a nature-grown pain reliever, what other benefits can plants have?
M: they can't make you smarter.
M: your argument is ill-founded bc you simultaneously want to protect something which creates something you don't approve of.
o: we dont know yet, our science has plenty of room to develop
M: another question-- things like poison ivy, poisonous fruits-- do you think they were deliberately created by nature to harm us?
o: why not, its their protection
M: really? that's their purpose, to harm us?
o: if you believe in evolution then we are harmful to them
o: and naturally will create something to defend against us
M: those things would be HIV and cancer.
M: not plants.
o: no in its basic form its enough to teach us to stay away
M: how many people die of poison ivy and poisonous fruit that it just had to have been created in a dire need to protect itself.
o: havent u noticed everything in nature warns us
o: why wouldnt a plant be enough to warn us with that
M: because a plant isn't effective enough to kill off what nature wants it to.
M: cancer is
M: HIV is
M: small pox is
M: things like poison ivy? i doubt that, strongly.
M: i doubt poison ivy's purpose is to harm humans.
M: otherwise, why were we even created?
o: a plant can kill an insect killing it, with that small point
o: im not a true botanist
o: i doubt pot was created in mind
o: for us to smoke it
M: you doubt a natural herb was created for our benefit?
M: if there's something creates to harm us, shouldn't there be something to protect us?
o: you and i have our opinions, neither one can win this
o: so why continue with this anymore?
M: what hasn't changed?
o: our opinions
o: or the world
M: the world's opinion is changing.
M: the House of Reps vote for medical marijuana legalization came in record numbers in June, 161-264. all they need is 57 more votes and medical marijuana is legal-- opinions are changing.
o: the world is being more tolerant
M: right, as they should be.
m: outlawing a plant seems dumb, no?
o: those people will sell their souls for votes
o: if thats what the people say
o: they will do it
o: but it will never have anything to do with science
o: look at stell cem research
o: grow new organs for us
o: but no
o: popular believe its not morally right
o: so hey we dont it
o: despite all science backing it
M: right, politicians are corrupt, but the noise over pot is getting it the attention it needs, as eventually stem cell research will as well.
o: politicians are idiots easily wayed by the mob
o: swayed*
M: as they should be
M: that's what a democracy is
M: something wayed by the mob
M: i just think it's a bit ironic coming from a nature-defender, that you think we should outlaw a naturally growing plant.
o: a single man has reason
o: a mob has none
M: i disagree
o: i am a nature defender
o: to keep things from being killed
o: cut down
o: but something from being illegal is not being cut down , abused,or killed
o: its just not being messed with which for me is okay
o: and there are more important things than fighting for weed
M: well, if the plant really didn't want anybody messing with it, don't you think it would've displayed this by atleast killing 1 person?
M: even after chronic consumption?
M: and fighting for weed is very important, btw.
M: more people are being jailed for pot than for any other reason.
M: this costs billions of dollars, ruins homes and families simply bc somebody wanted to smoke a naturally-growing plant.
M: overall crime went down, but jails are still packed bc of marijuana offenders.
M: this is a very serious problem and goes way beyond something as simple as, "weed shouldn't be fought for right now."
o: i dont even wanna imagine what society would be like if pot were legalized, no control, people are idiots
M: i believe i'm stating this fact righ-- before the DEA focused on medical marijuana users, the jail percentage of pot offenders was 25%. since their cut down it shot to 60%.
M: how would society be? calm and complacent?
o: but there are other things that can make u calm and complacent
o: music
M: no gang violence, no drug dealers?
o: chocolate
o: lol
M: this is bad for society?
o: yeah that would be the good side of it
o: but like i said
o: everything has its good and evil
o: it changes people thats for sure
M: don't you think pain-relieved arthritis and glaucoma patients, the end of gang violence and drug dealing is a pretty good thing that outweighs the contrary?
M: yeah, it makes people get along.
o: a friend ive had , smokes pot now and now shes totally different, you can see it in her eyes , the way she talks , acts , very slow
o: dependant on that shit
M: first off, pot dependancy is strictly psychological and is all up to a person's character. second, simply bc a minority abuses something, is this a reason to ban it for the majority?
o: yeah , not everyone is as smart you in that sense
o: a lot of people would become dependant on that
o: in order to be happy
o: its illegal for a reason
o: not everybody has common sense
o: how can a parent justify
o: that his 12 year old shouldnt be doing it?
M: that's not why it's illegal.
o: dont you see in your eyes it seems to make sense
o: but the world isnt that simple
M: generally speaking, some people died driving cars because they were speeding, why don't we outlaw cars?
M: most people don't have common sense?
o: its pretty much necessary
o: weed isnt
o: yeah most people dont
M: why is it necessary?
o: becuase we live in a big city
M: it fucks up our o-zone, doesn't it?
o: yeah
o: again has to do with the corporations
o: we could use more hybrid cards
M: well, i'm side tracking-- let's talk about speeding accidents.
o: but then gas companies would go down
o: lol
M: some people speed, get in car accidents and die. this is a minority of people. but most people don't, so outlawing it would seem extremely unfair, don't you think?
o: no
o: im sorry i just dont find it beneficial
o: or necessary
o: ive tried it , was no big deal
M: well, i can't make it any simpler other than to say i think your very wrong. but that's me, and that's that.
o: yep
M: brb
o: k
o: we both think we are wrong and cannot convince the other lol
o: ugh potheads piss me off, the main reason why they want marijuana legal so much is out of FEAR, they are scared to get their asses busted by the cops, they dont really care about medical reasons , its just a front