Terrorists Attack Grips London

[XTC]

LONDON - Three explosions rocked the London subway and one tore open a packed double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday. The blasts killed at least two people and reportedly injured more than 90 in what a shaken Prime Minister
Tony Blair called a series of "barbaric" terrorist attacks.
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Blair said it was clear the attacks were designed to coincide with the opening of the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland. The prime minister said the meeting of world leaders would continue but that he would return to London.

"Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilized nations throughout the world," said Blair.

A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" posted a claim of responsibility for the blasts, saying they were in retaliation for Britain's involvement in
Iraq and
Afghanistan. The Web statement, republished on the site of the German magazine Der Spiegel, could not be immediately confirmed.

Britain's Home Secretary Charles Clarke said there were three explosions in the subway and one on a bus. "We do not know who or what organizations are responsible for these terrible criminal acts," Clarke said.

The blasts came one day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics. Giselle Davies, a spokeswoman for the
International Olympic Committee, said the committee still had "full confidence" in London.

Bloodied and bandaged witnesses reported panicked crowds fleeing the blast sites. A witness at the bus explosion said the entire top deck of the bus was destroyed.

Sir Ian Blair, London's police chief, said he was concerned the explosions were a coordinated attack but said he wouldn't speculate on who was responsible. He said officials had found indications of explosives at one of the sites.

Police reported "a number of fatalities" at one London subway station. "Things are still relatively confused," Superintendent John Morgan said.

Denying an earlier report, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said that
Israel was not warned by Scotland Yard in advance of the blasts.

"We have been at a very high state of alert. Of course if there had been any kind of specific warnings we would have dealt with it," Blair said.

One witness, Darren Hall, said some passengers emerging from an evacuated subway station had soot and blood on their faces. He told BBC TV that he was evacuated along with others near the major King's Cross station and only afterward heard a blast.

Police confirmed an explosion destroyed a double-decker bus at Russell Square in central London.

Paul Woodrow, an official with the ambulance service, told reporters that rescue operations were ongoing and that "there are large numbers of casualties." Officials at the Royal London Hospital told BBC that 95 injured had been brought into that hospital alone.

Jay Kumar, a business owner near the site of the bus blast, said he ran out of his shop when he heard a loud explosion. He said the top deck of the bus had collapsed, sending people tumbling to the floor.

Many appeared badly injured, and bloodied people ran from the scene.

"A big blast, a big bomb," he told The Associated Press. "People were running this way panicked. They knew it was a bomb. Debris flying all over, mostly glass."

"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double decker bus was in the air," Belinda Seabrook told Press Association, the British news agency.

Police said incidents were reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square, near the British Museum.

Bradley Anderson, a subway passenger, told Sky News that "there was some kind of explosion or something" as his train reached the Edgware Road station in northeast London.

"Everything went black and we collided into some kind of oncoming train," Anderson said.

Simon Corvett, 26, who was on an eastbound train from Edgware Road station, said: "All of sudden there was this massive huge bang."

"It was absolutely deafening and all the windows shattered," he said. "There were just loads of people screaming and the carriages filled with smoke.

"You could see the carriage opposite was completely gutted," he said. "There were some people in real trouble."

London's cell phone network was working after the explosions but was overloaded and spotty, limiting communication.

The explosions sent stocks plummeting in Europe, with several of the major indexes down 3 percent.

On March 11, 2004, terrorist bombs on four commuter trains in Madrid killed 191 people.

[Psycho4Bud]

An act of cowards! Best wishes to all in London!!!

[amsterdam]

we stand with England and the English people.

[XTC]

I hope that people respond to this the way the Spanish people responded to the Madrid bombings, which was generally the right way to go. They blamed the government for getting involved with the US war and thereby bascially provoking reactionary fundamentalists to attack them.

That's what this is about. These are the consequences of empire.

Now before anyone gets stupid, I'll make the obligatory statement that progressive, radical, and revolutionary-minded people and people against the war should not side with reactionary fundamentalists. I think that their choice of targets--a civilian population--shows how bankrupt their ideology is. Funny, though, how you could say the same about the US ruling class, and on a much larger scale.

It's almost as if part of the US war is designed to stir up fundamentalists. The invasion and occupation naturally call forth opposition, but the repeated offenses to Islam--destroying the Quran at Guantanamo, the statements that Christian Fascist military people like Gen. Boykin make, and so on--stir up more indignation in the Muslim world than the people in the US even know about. This is fuel for fundamentalists, and it seems deliberate.

In other words, the US is creating its own enemy.

Like I said in another thread, I don't think there's anything inadvertent about it. They need justification for their wars for plunder. You can't just say, "We're gonna go get that oil no matter what"...you've got to have a pretext.

I think now more than ever we need to drive the Bush regime out. There's only one direction this shit can go, and that's more war and more police state measures, and more scapegoating. Imperialism is the enemy of ALL the worlds' people. That's where our fight is.

[amsterdam]

andf they have been attacked 3 times since.its a good thing that will never happen in the U.S. and England.


get attacked,pull out.what A PUSSY.thats why the american people reject your ideas and policies.

[amsterdam]

let's roll.

[Button Basher]

Thanks for putting my opinion into better words then I ever could XTC. The idea that a bunch of guys woke up one morning and thought "hey, let's be terrorists" is ridiculous. The Republican sheep (not generalising here, there are Republicans without the sheep values) are much more comfortable taking Bush's word that these kind of attacks are from freedom-hating maniacs and we're the Hollywood good guys. This is punishment, the same punishment we are currently giving in Iraq for the same punishment the US recieved on 9/11. People think we can blast the world into peace, we'll just blast it to pieces. Is there any way to escape that anymore?

Nobodies right if everybodys wrong.

[Psycho4Bud]

LONDON - Three explosions rocked the London subway and one tore open a packed double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday. The blasts killed at least two people and reportedly injured more than 90 in what a shaken Prime Minister
Tony Blair called a series of "barbaric" terrorist attacks.
ADVERTISEMENT

Blair said it was clear the attacks were designed to coincide with the opening of the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland. The prime minister said the meeting of world leaders would continue but that he would return to London.

"Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilized nations throughout the world," said Blair.

A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" posted a claim of responsibility for the blasts, saying they were in retaliation for Britain's involvement in
Iraq and
Afghanistan. The Web statement, republished on the site of the German magazine Der Spiegel, could not be immediately confirmed.

Britain's Home Secretary Charles Clarke said there were three explosions in the subway and one on a bus. "We do not know who or what organizations are responsible for these terrible criminal acts," Clarke said.

The blasts came one day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics. Giselle Davies, a spokeswoman for the
International Olympic Committee, said the committee still had "full confidence" in London.

Bloodied and bandaged witnesses reported panicked crowds fleeing the blast sites. A witness at the bus explosion said the entire top deck of the bus was destroyed.

Sir Ian Blair, London's police chief, said he was concerned the explosions were a coordinated attack but said he wouldn't speculate on who was responsible. He said officials had found indications of explosives at one of the sites.

Police reported "a number of fatalities" at one London subway station. "Things are still relatively confused," Superintendent John Morgan said.

Denying an earlier report, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said that
Israel was not warned by Scotland Yard in advance of the blasts.

"We have been at a very high state of alert. Of course if there had been any kind of specific warnings we would have dealt with it," Blair said.

One witness, Darren Hall, said some passengers emerging from an evacuated subway station had soot and blood on their faces. He told BBC TV that he was evacuated along with others near the major King's Cross station and only afterward heard a blast.

Police confirmed an explosion destroyed a double-decker bus at Russell Square in central London.

Paul Woodrow, an official with the ambulance service, told reporters that rescue operations were ongoing and that "there are large numbers of casualties." Officials at the Royal London Hospital told BBC that 95 injured had been brought into that hospital alone.

Jay Kumar, a business owner near the site of the bus blast, said he ran out of his shop when he heard a loud explosion. He said the top deck of the bus had collapsed, sending people tumbling to the floor.

Many appeared badly injured, and bloodied people ran from the scene.

"A big blast, a big bomb," he told The Associated Press. "People were running this way panicked. They knew it was a bomb. Debris flying all over, mostly glass."

"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double decker bus was in the air," Belinda Seabrook told Press Association, the British news agency.

Police said incidents were reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square, near the British Museum.

Bradley Anderson, a subway passenger, told Sky News that "there was some kind of explosion or something" as his train reached the Edgware Road station in northeast London.

"Everything went black and we collided into some kind of oncoming train," Anderson said.

Simon Corvett, 26, who was on an eastbound train from Edgware Road station, said: "All of sudden there was this massive huge bang."

"It was absolutely deafening and all the windows shattered," he said. "There were just loads of people screaming and the carriages filled with smoke.

"You could see the carriage opposite was completely gutted," he said. "There were some people in real trouble."

London's cell phone network was working after the explosions but was overloaded and spotty, limiting communication.

The explosions sent stocks plummeting in Europe, with several of the major indexes down 3 percent.

On March 11, 2004, terrorist bombs on four commuter trains in Madrid killed 191 people.

I knew it wouldn't be long for someone to talk shit! Do you know the actual meaning of Jihad? This is not an act of Moslum faith but some uncommon criminals portraying their acts for kicks basically. Islamic Defensive Jihad can only be issued by the head Caliph...something which hasn't been done!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Jihad is not terrorism:

It is to be emphasized that terrorism against the innocent civilians, whether through aggression or suicidal means, is under no circumstances permissible in Islam. Islam encourages the oppressed people to struggle for their liberation and it commands other Muslims to help those who are oppressed and suffering, but Islam does not allow, under any circumstance, terrorism against non-combatants and innocent people. Terrorism is not Jihad, it is Fasad (mischief). It is against the teachings of Islam. There are some people who use their twisted arguments to justify terrorism for their causes, but it has no justification: Allah says:
"When it is said to them: 'Make not mischief on the earth,' they say: 'Why, we only want to correct things.' Indeed they are the mischief doers, but they realize (it) not." (Al-Baqarah: 11-12)
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=51346

What has happened falls against the Islamic faith completely! This is not Bushs or Blairs fault...its an act of aggression by some dumb asses trying to make a name in history. To bit killers without the courage to confront their adversaries face to face or on a battle field.
Best of wishes to the fine people in London!

[amsterdam]

they have a strong leader in blair who just won re-election.

[pisshead]

now watch the national id legislation sail through parliament...you won't be able to travel without it.

i feel sorry for the people who died and their families, and also for those who are going to have to live in the resulting id card dictatorship because of it. which won't keep them safe by the way.

the easter bunny could have made a website and claimed responsibility...if we're really sold that al-qaeda did this because of the war, i'd say it has MI5 or some other intelligence agency written all over it.

but i guess we'll see who stands to gain from this...qui bono?

[amsterdam]

i wonder what nationality the people who carried out this attack are?

[nicholasstanko]

Guys stop fucking around! this is some serious shit here. Don't you see what's happening. amsterdam and p4b should be thanking pisshead for his offers of the alex jones videos. alex stated that soon there would be another terrorist attack which would benefit police state militarism.

think about it. the blasts happened and in just a few hours they determined it was terrorism. yes yes...they have the al-quaeda video but they've managed to authenticate it completely in such a short amount of time?! sounds just like how we knew afghanistan must be attacked right after 9/11. get a clue! the new world order is almost here. its up to us to resist it. stop fighting and just listen. we love whats ours as do you. why cant we all just call it a day and work together?

[pisshead]

Guys stop fucking around! this is some serious shit here. Don't you see what's happening. amsterdam and p4b should be thanking pisshead for his offers of the alex jones videos. alex stated that soon there would be another terrorist attack which would benefit police state militarism.

think about it. the blasts happened and in just a few hours they determined it was terrorism. yes yes...they have the al-quaeda video but they've managed to authenticate it completely in such a short amount of time?! sounds just like how we knew afghanistan must be attacked right after 9/11. get a clue! the new world order is almost here. its up to us to resist it. stop fighting and just listen. we love whats ours as do you. why cant we all just call it a day and work together?paul joseph watson who runs prisonplanet.com had also been talking in the recent months about an imminent terrorist attack in london, based on the same basic pre 9/11 warnings that made alex get on the radio for months before 9/11 and say call the white house, they're going to use bin laden to attack NYC and DC.

do yourself a favor nich...put amsterdam and psycho on your ignore list. it's not worth it to waste time on people like that. they want to be lied to and believe the lies in their cozy left/right world.

[pisshead]

Attack On London: Photo Page (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Jul05/070705explosions_London_photos.html)

New York, Washington beef up transport security (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07279337.htm)

Oil Prices Plunge Amid London Explosions (http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/07/07/ap2127490.html)

Police Chief said '200 terrorists walking around London': How did he know unless they were following them around? (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Mar05/060305_terror.html)

FLASHBACK: UK terrorist attack inevitable: police chief (http://www.abc.net.au/correspondents/content/2004/s1070154.htm)

London mayor says attacks "mass murder" (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP306264.htm)

London blasts: At a glance (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm)

'Denmark & Italy threatened (http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.184776526&par=0)

Blair vows terrorists won't win (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4659933.stm)

Statement claiming attacks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm)

Bush urges Americans to be vigilant after London explosions (http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=92919)

Timeline: Series of explosions (http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/WorldNF.asp?ArticleID=172022)

The army were on the ground by 11:20am, the civil contingencies police state measures are in action.

Blasts Rip Through London Buses and Tube (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705blastsrip.htm)

[amsterdam]

everyone on the planet knew they were going to attack again.im suprised we havent had one here yet.its coming.

love the ignore list,what are you 6 years old.cant handle other opinions that arent the same as yours?you guys are the fringe of society.i would stay on this site if i were you,no one else would give you the time of day,except alex.lol.now be gone kool-aid drinkers.

[pisshead]

Explosions In London - Who Stands To Gain? Israel Warned Before Blast, Cover-up in Progress (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Jul05/070705explosions_London.html)

First reports stated that Binyamin Netanyahu got a warning BEFORE the first blast, now the Associated Press are changing their stories saying the warning came AFTER the first blast. A cover-up is in progress.

Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705israelwarned.htm)

The warning contradicts the fact that the original explanation of a power surge went out for an hour or more. They knew it was an attack but put out a false explanation. Plus why did Netanyahu get a warning and the victims didn't?

'Secret Organisation - al-Qaeda in Europe' Claims Responsibility For Attacks (http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705claimsresponsibility.htm)

Santa Claus could put up a website and claim responsibility, does that make it so?

British 'Terror Suspects' Were in Contact With MI5 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2004/040104terrorsuspects.html)

'Former MI5 agent said Israel bombed their own London embassy' (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/270605insidejob.htm)

FLASHBACK: MARDID BOMBING - Madrid Bombers Linked to Spanish Security Service (http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/062104madridbombers.htm)

Madrid Train Bomb Suspects Were Police Informants (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3670627.stm)

Aznar Withholds Secret Madrid Bombing Intelligence Documents (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/230704aznarwithholds.htm)

Spain's govt 'twisted' bombings for gains (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/230605twistedbombings.htm)

[professer evil]

i hate to say it and i mean this in no bad way but thats what happens for following america into a war over oil,everybody has been waiting for some kind of attack on london for a couple of years now.

the latest figures are that there are 40 innocent people who lost their lives this morning and that figure may rise before the end of the day

[amsterdam]

i feel sorry for you.

[pisshead]

i hate to say it and i mean this in no bad way but thats what happens for following america into a war over oil,everybody has been waiting for some kind of attack on london for a couple of years now.

the latest figures are that there are 40 innocent people who lost their lives this morning and that figure may rise before the end of the dayyes, and now in the US we're on this orange alert for all travels...

it's incredibly easy to see how the constitution will be set aside like Tommy Franks said once we're attacked again here. it'll start slow with localized martial law, then the propaganda on fox and cnn to show us how wonderful the troops are doing to keep us safe and that we have to be searched for our safety, and that having no constitution isn't that bad...

then it's downhill from there.

a military homeland security dictatorship won't keep us safe from terrorism...only the governments of the world stand to gain from 'terrorism' with troops on the streets and national id cards and police state measures...

[amsterdam]

and we are coming for you scully!!

[professer evil]

al queda europe have taken responsibility, some of you people do too much reading fiction and shit,talkin about the new world order being responsible,thats bullshit

the new world order????????? everyone knows the illuminati is full of the most powerfull men of the world,all the former american presidents are members including g w bush but i think crazy muslims were the motive behind this attack

[pisshead]

i'm looking at who benefits...who stands to gain. who gets more power and control over everyones' lives after attacks.

i could put up a website saying the easter bunny claimed responsibility. talk about reading fiction.

[amsterdam]

muslims??no way,it's w's fault along with the secret groups everywhere.(sarcastic)

watch the approval ratings climb.

[professer evil]

its safe to say the bush and blair dont give a fuck about bombs goin off around them and limbs being torn off people,its obviously good publicity for them and their "no surrender to terrorism" policy.

ive heard word on the news that a police sharp shooter killed a suicide bomber somewhere in london(around paddington i think) and all knowledge is being denied by police,theres definitley some kind of cover up goin on but i still reckon it was crazy muslims,although if i was blowing up london i would have done it at the big thank you party for the olympics that took place yesterday,there would have been maxium casualties there

[amsterdam]

if anything,W cares to much and takes things personaly.

use your brain,if it was a cover up you wouldnt have heard anything yet.our governments are good at that my friend.

[Psycho4Bud]

Explosions In London - Who Stands To Gain? Israel Warned Before Blast, Cover-up in Progress (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Jul05/070705explosions_London.html)

First reports stated that Binyamin Netanyahu got a warning BEFORE the first blast, now the Associated Press are changing their stories saying the warning came AFTER the first blast. A cover-up is in progress.

Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705israelwarned.htm)

The warning contradicts the fact that the original explanation of a power surge went out for an hour or more. They knew it was an attack but put out a false explanation. Plus why did Netanyahu get a warning and the victims didn't?

'Secret Organisation - al-Qaeda in Europe' Claims Responsibility For Attacks (http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705claimsresponsibility.htm)

Santa Claus could put up a website and claim responsibility, does that make it so?

British 'Terror Suspects' Were in Contact With MI5 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2004/040104terrorsuspects.html)

'Former MI5 agent said Israel bombed their own London embassy' (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/270605insidejob.htm)

FLASHBACK: MARDID BOMBING - Madrid Bombers Linked to Spanish Security Service (http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/062104madridbombers.htm)

Madrid Train Bomb Suspects Were Police Informants (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3670627.stm)

Aznar Withholds Secret Madrid Bombing Intelligence Documents (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/230704aznarwithholds.htm)

Spain's govt 'twisted' bombings for gains (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/230605twistedbombings.htm)

People dead in the streets and you post this shit. You are one sick son of a bitch!! And thats from the heart Pissant!

[professer evil]

i dont know about ur government amsterdam but my government doesnt cover up any kind of things like that,we wouldnt have it.george w is a clown,only yesterday he went rideing on his bike after he got to scotland and he crashes into a police officer and falls off scrapeing his arm,this is the kind of muppet thats basically in charge of the world,he makes me really angry the bastard

the english are not to be trusted,theyll stick knife in ur back and take your land and its the innocent people who get blown up

the muslims should just blow up one of the palaces or house of parlament or some government place,as time goes by there bomb manufacturing will get better and their delivery will be better also,they used mobile phone technology to arm some of their bombs in the underground today,i reckon its only the start although i hope its not

[Psycho4Bud]

Guys stop fucking around! this is some serious shit here. Don't you see what's happening. amsterdam and p4b should be thanking pisshead for his offers of the alex jones videos. alex stated that soon there would be another terrorist attack which would benefit police state militarism.

think about it. the blasts happened and in just a few hours they determined it was terrorism. yes yes...they have the al-quaeda video but they've managed to authenticate it completely in such a short amount of time?! sounds just like how we knew afghanistan must be attacked right after 9/11. get a clue! the new world order is almost here. its up to us to resist it. stop fighting and just listen. we love whats ours as do you. why cant we all just call it a day and work together?

Oh hell yes, I'll drop down and kiss his ass just like you! NOT!!! If there was actually a NWO they would be taking you two out with your lord Alex Jones. :D

[nomadherbman]

why bomb in london when the leaders are in scotland???? i know damn well terroist would be more prone to attack the people behind their countries down fall...... anyone else smell a set up......just another reason for the government to clamp down and control our lives even more

[amsterdam]

because london is a better target than glasgow you genius.are you kidding me.

[Twoshots]

the english are not to be trusted,theyll stick knife in ur back and take your land and its the innocent people who get blown up

Stupid stupid man\boy what an ignorant thing to say..


the muslims should just blow up one of the palaces or house of parlament or some government place

Just how does your puny little narrow minded brain work Prof Evil?
You are an incredibly insenitive person who has shown that this type of incident means nothing to you.I hope your family never has to endure something like this....PRICK.

[amsterdam]

the english are to be trusted to the death,america will live and die with england and i am proud of that.

you cant disrespest an englishmans football team without a smack down,you think they will tolerate killing their people?yea right.mess with the bull and you will get the horns my silly friend.

[Psycho4Bud]

why bomb in london when the leaders are in scotland???? i know damn well terroist would be more prone to attack the people behind their countries down fall...... anyone else smell a set up......just another reason for the government to clamp down and control our lives even more

These people aren't about that. They kill their own in the streets of Bagdad every day. Zarqawis' group kills shi'ites:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10334633

They target Egyptians:
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/050707/2005070703.html

They're not freedom fighters, their cowards! AlQueda is losing respect around the world including the Mosums nations. Nothing more than a pack of cowardly headline grabbers!

[amsterdam]

thats why they are so fucking pissed off.this isnt just a war against america,they are trying to spread fundamentalist islam everywhere.they hate saudi arabia,egypt,kuwait and the like because they see those muslim nations moving with the rest of the world away from the ancient times.

[professer evil]

fuck you twoshots ive alredy said my prayers are with the innocent people who died but im an irishman so dont be surprised if i have no respect for your queen and government,they have brought this attack on u all

my point was that the target for these bombs should be government targets and not civilian

[amsterdam]

like all the club bombings in london by the IRA.government huh?yea right.one in the same.

[Psycho4Bud]

Protestants killing Catholics, Catholics killing Protestants....hmmmmmmmmmm

[professer evil]

the ira bombing were not only aimed at government targets but also groups of protestants,its completely different to the muslims agenda,why were we bombing you???because you took our country then u divided it then your army up the north along with the protestant civilians attacked and murdered innocent catholics of all ages and of both sex,dont get me started on this coz im 2 passionate bout it and people have been murdered today so lets not be petty about past events and try to be positive

[nomadherbman]

i dont know just seems a bit timely??

[pisshead]

it makes a good excuse for being jailed without charge and national id cards. here it will mean further erosion of posse comitatus and more police state.

[swordoflight]

Thats very true about the whole ID card and detention without trial thing, atrocities like this just add fuel to that particluar fire. Anyway my thoughts are with you Londoners, take care of yourselves.

[Psycho4Bud]

it makes a good excuse for being jailed without charge and national id cards. here it will mean further erosion of posse comitatus and more police state.

You would probably feel different if your lord Alex was on that bus! Maybe a national ID card would help to weed out some of these dumbasses! :D

[Button Basher]

People dead in the streets and you post this shit. You are one sick son of a bitch!! And thats from the heart Pissant!

Give him a fucking break. It's not like he cursed their souls for fucks sake. Why get offended by someone elses whacky conspiracy theory? Chill.

I hadn't thought of how this will affect the ID card policy. If that shit actually happens I swear i'll move to Iraq :mad:.

:rolleyes:

[swordoflight]

ID cards dont prevent terrorism at all. Spain has an ID card system and that didnt prevent the Madrid bombing, criminals and terrorists will always have the resources be one step ahead of any such system.

[amsterdam]

terrorists only understand brute force and power.

[bhallg2k]

I really do fear the emotional response this is going to cause.

[amsterdam]

i bet you do.

[ermitonto]

Thanks for putting my opinion into better words then I ever could XTC. The idea that a bunch of guys woke up one morning and thought "hey, let's be terrorists" is ridiculous. The Republican sheep (not generalising here, there are Republicans without the sheep values) are much more comfortable taking Bush's word that these kind of attacks are from freedom-hating maniacs and we're the Hollywood good guys. This is punishment, the same punishment we are currently giving in Iraq for the same punishment the US recieved on 9/11. People think we can blast the world into peace, we'll just blast it to pieces. Is there any way to escape that anymore?

Nobodies right if everybodys wrong.

Right on. This was a counter-attack â?? albeit done in a barbaric way and against civilians who didn't deserve it â?? but you can't expect your enemies to not kill innocent civilians when that's exactly what you're doing yourself.

http://www.knife-party.net/movs/barry.mov

[amsterdam]

believe me,we understand that.

thats why war is called war(the buisness of killing people) and not timeout,or nerf battle.

sad that it takes another act of war to remind everyone what we are up against.but that is what happened.

[ermitonto]

So I see you've bought into the idea that we're fighting a "war on terrorism". And, as this incident shows, bombing the crap out of Iraq and Afghanistan did nothing to stop terrorism. It's just going to make it worse and worse. You're not going to get rid of people's desire to murder by dropping bombs on their neighbors. You have to get to the root of the problem (U.S. imperialism) and stop it there.

[amsterdam]

i guess the elections in afghanistan didnt happen.

i guess the ukraine didnt happen.

i guess the elections in beirut ddidnt happen.

womens suffrage in kuwait didnt happen either.

no two party elections in egypt?

your on the wrong side of history my freiend.

[amsterdam]

and good luck with that anarchy thing.

[ermitonto]

i guess the elections in afghanistan didnt happen.

i guess the ukraine didnt happen.

i guess the elections in beirut ddidnt happen.

womens suffrage in kuwait didnt happen either.

no two party elections in egypt?

your on the wrong side of history my freiend.

Oh, so they get to choose their leader now. That's a perfectly good excuse for killing a whole bunch of them. :rolleyes: By the way, if you're really dedicated to this "forcing democracy on everybody" idea, why not invade Myanmar and China and Belarus and Indonesia and a slew of sub-Saharan African nations? Oh right, they don't have oil.

[Button Basher]

i guess the elections in afghanistan didnt happen.

i guess the ukraine didnt happen.

i guess the elections in beirut ddidnt happen.


I guess we're still getting bombed by fucking terrorists. 4 years and I guess we havn't changed anything we went out to do.

Why do you constantly talk about another imminent terrorist attack in the US btw? Such doubt (but with good cause).

[makor01]

hey people open up your fucking eyes and realize that terrorism existed WAY before this war in iraq. There will always be terrorism, i dont think we will ever be able to get rid of it. The only thing we can do it try to slow it down in some way. Why did they lable this as terrorism so fast?...well fucking put 2 and 2 together, any act of blowing shit up like this is terrorism, doesnt matter who is behind it...innocent people dying like this is terrorism. Its so fucking black and white.

Im personally sick and fucking tired of reading all you people post how this is bush and blaire's fault. Why do you still seem to sympathize with the terrorists instead of those who want to stop them? Why do you reach to justify their tactics by spitting on ours? I cant even begin to understand the way some of you all think. This war in iraq does nobody good, but terrorism is much worse and has heen around much longer.

To all those in london, injured or dead, my prayers go out to you.

[ermitonto]

You're right, you can't just "get rid of all the terrorists". That's why Bush's and Blair's terrorism (that's right, it doesn't stop being terrorism when the guys killing innocent civilians as a means to a political end are our own leaders) isn't going to get us anywhere either. I'm not saying that all the terrorism is their fault, just that it's only going to get more intense when we bomb countries we think have some terrorists in them. When somebody explains to me how invading Iraq and Afghanistan will do anything to stop terrorism any better than invading Northern Ireland would, I'm all ears, but I see them only as wars that are going to turn more people to acts of violence against innocent people. I'm not "sympathizing with the terrorists" just because I oppose inefficient means to stopping terrorism. Just because I don't like Bush and Blair's inefficient solution to the problem does NOT mean I'm siding with Al-Qaeda. Bush's statement that you're either with him or with the terrorists is just ludicrous. I'm against ALL forms of terrorism, whether performed by governments or individuals, and the best way to prevent it from happening again would be to withdraw from the Middle East, say we're sorry and let them run their own society as they see fit. These people aren't being violent because they hate freedom, they're being violent because we keep sending our soldiers to their countries.

[pisshead]

exactly. and trashing the constitution doesn't keep anyone safe from terrorism either. national id cards and homeland security and the end of posse comitatus won't keep us safe.

the endgame of troops on the streets and in malls and everywhere we go and all crime considered terrorism (section 802 of the patriot act), martial law, won't keep us safe.

giant government certainly isn't going to keep us safe.

[Button Basher]

This isn't like WW2. We're not so much protecting ourselves as invading and blowing the shit out of another country. I never knew the 'keep-firing-and-your-bound-to-hit-home' strategy was so popular.

[Psycho4Bud]

So far off into fairyland it's incredible! There are many different interpretations to the Quran...this is a little of what the "terrorists" are getting out of it:

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)


Doesn't look to much to me like they want to kiss and make up!

[ermitonto]

Well, Bush's God isn't much better at disapproving of genocide. I think Noam Chomsky put it best:

You can find things in the traditional religions which are very benign and decent and wonderful and so on, but I mean, the Bible is probably the most genocidal book in the literary canon. The God of the Bible - not only did He order His chosen people (http://www.bible.org/netbible/1sa15.htm) to carry out literal genocide - I mean, wipe out every Amalekite to the last man, woman, child, and, you know, donkey and so on, because hundreds of years ago they got in your way when you were trying to cross the desert - not only did He do things like that, but, after all, the God of the Bible was ready to destroy every living creature on earth because some humans irritated Him. That's the story of Noah. I mean, that's beyond genocide - you don't know how to describe this creature. Somebody offended Him, and He was going to destroy every living being on earth? And then He was talked into allowing two of each species to stay alive - that's supposed to be gentle and wonderful.

[Button Basher]

Way to quote Chomsky. I had to write an exam paper on his innate language acquisition theory. :p

As if Christianity is a bunch-of-roses religion itself. I find it laughable people call it a peaceful, kindly religion when your damned to burn forever in the eternal fires of hell if you enjoy yourself at any point in your life. :rolleyes:

I have to say the Qu'ran does make me reconsider :( . Islam is most definitely a dangerous religion. My brother was telling me about the definition of 'infidel' he read in it, pretty scary stuff.

In the end, i'm more concerned about the wrong doings of my own "side" (as torog would word it) :cool: .

[bruiser]

God and Bush are not talking believe me lol,this attack today was just another tactic of satan as he moves himself into postion to get the job done,but either way and no matter what happens this whole thing will play out and will allow all of hearts to be troubled,then look to the skys and into our own hearts and the day of the Lord will be upon us,then and only then all tears will be wiped away..............Christ is the way.........believe now more then ever because the last days are upon us.....come Lord Jesus...

[nomadherbman]

^^is your mind right???

[Button Basher]

the last days are upon us.

Can I hold you to that?

[makor01]

bruiser how can you call this an act of satan if infact this is the result of islamic jhihadists? are you calling islamic jhihadists who are doing what they think their god wants them to satanists? cummon man the bible thing is not gonna work for this situation...get over it.

[Psycho4Bud]

Found this just now...very interesting!!!

This Telegraph story (thanks to Jeffrey Imm) makes sure to assure us in the first two paragraphs that the flag burning was done by only a tiny minority of extremists, ignored by the vast majority. Unfortunately, however, that tiny minority has the appeal of "pure Islam" on its side.

Islamic fundamentalists burned a Union flag and chanted the name of Osama bin Laden yesterday in defiance of the vast majority of mosques, which backed calls for Muslims to co-operate in the fight against terrorism.
A small number of extremists gathered outside two London mosques to protest but they were largely ignored by thousands of moderate Muslims leaving Friday prayers.

Imams across the country echoed the concerns expressed in a letter sent to more than 1,000 mosques last week by the Muslim Council of Britain, which warned against "mischievous elements" provoking "illegal activity".

But leaders also criticised the West's handling of the Middle East, the detention of Muslim suspects without trial and the "insensitivity" of the police.

One prominent imam argued that the council's letter could add credibility to the misleading impression that Muslims were harbouring terrorists when, in reality, 99 per cent of them were peace-loving citizens.

Mohammad Shahid Raza, the imam of the Leicester Central Mosque, said: "Some of the members of the community are interpreting this letter as something through which the larger community may criminalise the Muslim community.

"They may interpret it as 'Muslims are holding terrorists in their mosques', while 99 per cent of Muslims are peace-loving citizens in this country and have always co-operated with the authorities and the police forces."

Abdul Qayum, the imam of the East London Mosque in Tower Hamlets, said in his sermon that true adherents of Islam "could not conceive" of killing people unlawfully.

But he warned the international community against confusing this with the "freedom movements by the oppressed people of Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya against the occupation forces".


In other words, his idea of "killing people unlawfully" may differ somewhat from that held by non-Muslims.

In an apparent reference to the anti-terrorism raids in the South-East this week, he added: "We are very worried about the reports of police insensitivity when arresting Muslims and the media coverage that follows."
At the London Central Mosque at Regent's Park, Abdesselam Daoud, a spokesman, said although the council's letter was not read out in full, its concerns were reflected in the day's sermon.

But as several thousand worshippers left the mosque, about 20 supporters of Al-Muhajiroun, a fringe fundamentalist group, burned a Union flag and chanted: "UK, you will pay, bin Laden on his way."

Anjem Choudary, a spokesman for the group, said: "There is nothing me and you, or the British services or the Government, can do about stopping an attack in this country. There is nothing MI5 or MI6 can do to stop al-Qa'eda from bombing London."

The overwhelming majority of the worshippers ignored the radicals, though a few shouted abuse.

Abu Hamza, the radical cleric, held his usual Friday prayer meeting outside the Finsbury Park Mosque, north London, watched by uniformed police officers.

He told nearly 150 Muslims that the only person who cared about the council's letter was Tony Blair.

He claimed that the alleged bomb-making material found by the police this week was "created material" and the arrests were a "conspiracy against these brothers".

The council's letter said that, according to the Koran, the murder of one individual was "tantamount to murdering entire humanity".

It added: "Islam categorically forbids violence and killing of innocents, let alone indulging in violence which can cause death and mayhem."

Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary general of the council, praised mainstream Muslim leaders for playing "a very important role in society".

He dismissed comments by Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, the spiritual leader of Al-Muhajiroun, who said Muslims should not co-operate with the authorities against members of the same faith.

[Psycho4Bud]

Another good article I found:

Certainly, neither bin Laden nor his principal associate, Ayman al-Zawahiri, are graduates of Islamic universities or seminaries. And so their proclamations ignore 14 centuries of Muslim scholarship, and instead take the form of lists of anti-American grievances and of Koranic quotations referring to early Muslim wars against Arab idolators. These are followed by the conclusion that all Americans, civilian and military, are to be wiped off the face of the Earth.

All this amounts to an odd and extreme violation of the normal methods of Islamic scholarship. Had the authors of such fatwas [non-binding legal opinions] followed the norms of their religion, they would have had to acknowledge that no school of traditional Islam allows the targeting of civilians. An insurrectionist who kills non-combatants is guilty of baghy, "armed transgression", a capital offence in Islamic law. A jihad can be proclaimed only by a properly constituted state; anything else is pure vigilantism.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm

Take note of the author and his location!

[bruiser]

bruiser how can you call this an act of satan if infact this is the result of islamic jhihadists? are you calling islamic jhihadists who are doing what they think their god wants them to satanists? cummon man the bible thing is not gonna work for this situation...get over it.

Actually any one who would do such a thing would have to be doing the work of satan,if they are doing this to serve their God their God must be satan,well put it this way they don't serve the Lord,and by the way this bible stuff as you put it is alive and well and playing out before your very eye's,keep tuning in alot more shit is going to hit the fan over the next couple of years according to the scriptures.......but in the meantime don't panic these things must happen before the coming of the Lord..........peace be with you all...what most people fail to understand this is not a political war by any means this is infact a holy war! that has been building up for the last several years.......next move will be in the next few years will be marshall law in the free world,the us is close to that now!,the soldiers are in the streets and everyone is welcoming ther presence,give it a few more years and things will be played out in a much larger degree.....you still can't see it?....just remember these conversations,over the next little while....and perhaps then youl'l believe but for your sake right away.........look to the skys the Lord is coming

[BlueCat]

WOW! This is a rich thread....Psycho we don't always see eye to eye but tonight you are hitting 100%......I'm really impressed... :D

These acts have to be taken on an individual basis...you can't blame an entire religion for the acts of a few....great posts!

[Psycho4Bud]

WOW! This is a rich thread....Psycho we don't always see eye to eye but tonight you are hitting 100%......I'm really impressed... :D

These acts have to be taken on an individual basis...you can't blame an entire religion for the acts of a few....great posts!

Thanks!!! As you know, we have our own Jesus freaks blowing up abortion clinics in the name of the Lord....all Christians aren't nuts though. :D .....NOT saying I'm a Christian! :D

[root]

Peaceful citizens need of course to be protected against terrorists.
Terrorists being people who were already badly educated and who are ready to die for their beliefs by becoming human bombs in the name of their supernatural god.
But this is not a war, but a matter for the police.
The huge military expenses, advanced jets and armord vehicles, missiles
can do nothing against a terrorist blowing up a subway train or a bus!
It is laughable or shoud I say sick to see the media illustrating the idea
of war against terrorism by showing military training in terrorist camps.
You do not need months of training in para military camp in order to
kill 33+people with a bomb in the London under ground system!
This so called "war on terror" is creating more terrorists and sadly
the furture will prove it.
Before this so called "war on terrorist" stated there were only a few hundred religious fanatics ready to blow thenselves up in the name of their god.
Now their are hundreds of thousands all around the Muslim world
who hate America and Brittian as never before.

[Psycho4Bud]

.
Before this so called "war on terrorist" stated there were only a few hundred religious fanatics ready to blow thenselves up in the name of their god.
Now their are hundreds of thousands all around the Muslim world
who hate America and Brittian as never before.

PLEASE feel free to back up that statement with a credible link!

Check out what the Arab nations think....and from what news agency!

Deadly blasts that rocked London's underground trains and a bus have drawn shock and sympathy from several Arab capitals - some of them all too familiar with carnage on their own streets.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2F2BE378-F9B6-4F0E-A7B9-9BC0DF5D89AD.htm

[root]

Here's the link,
www.informationclearinghouse.info

[XTC]

People, this is a not a war in the name of Religion. It's not! The people who believe in Bin Laden's Ideology are fanatics. They are in the same boat as Christian Fanatics who blow up abortion clinics. These people do not represent either religion. They are nuts. But everytime Bush opens his mouth, he proves yet again Bin Laden's point. Bin Laden says the US will go into a Middle Eastern nation and take it over, so what do we Do? WE PROVE HIS POINT! We are making Bin Laden's job easier. We're making us a an easy target for hate. You sheep who follow Bush are too thick to realize we're creating our own enemy.

[makor01]

bruiser get a clue please....you sadden me.

and to xtc i wouldnt say we "created" this enemy, but we have seen alot more come out of the woodwork since all this got started.

[Psycho4Bud]

Here's the link,
www.informationclearinghouse.info

Which article relates to the numbers you quoted? :confused:

[Psycho4Bud]

Bin Laden says the US will go into a Middle Eastern nation and take it over, so what do we Do? WE PROVE HIS POINT! We are making Bin Laden's job easier. We're making us a an easy target for hate. You sheep who follow Bush are too thick to realize we're creating our own enemy.

Which country did we take over? Afghanistan has its own government and I believe that Iraq has more than proven that it has its own. I'm sure the U.S. administration was real pleased about this:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e77d12b8-ef0f-11d9-8b10-00000e2511c8.html

Doesn't really look like a U.S. policy to me....how about you?

[Psycho4Bud]

WOW!!! I would have NEVER expected this!

Iran, Syria condemn attacks
Iran and Syria, both on Washington's list of states sponsoring terrorism, joined an unbroken chorus of condemnation, as did the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Hezbollah.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/597431.html

[amsterdam]

i am interested in all the cameras and what they caught.you cant go anywhere in london without being on tape.

[amsterdam]

i believe Churchill put it best on October 5,1938.

"Do not suppose that this is the end.This is only the beginning of the reckoning.This is only the first sip,the first foretaste of a bitter cup wich will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour,we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden time."

i get chills when i read that.

[Funken Monken]

Abolute nighmare. I was outside Southhwalk bidge for ages yeteday trying to get to the office, but it all closed, then word went around and I gave up. Ended up having to go back to a mates house (where I had to stay, couldnt get the train home), then get them to give me a lift to Watford Juntion this morning.

Asbolute crap. My top lips been stiff since about mid-morning yesterday.

Now, being that GWB says 2+2 = 78.3, does this mean we should go an invade France now? You know, in the name of freedom? After all, the have WMD - Wine of Mediocre Distinction

[amsterdam]

you dont need to invade France,just say BOO!

[BlueCat]

WMD - Wine of Mediocre Distinction

HAHAHAHA....

[nicholasstanko]

Abolute nighmare. I was outside Southhwalk bidge for ages yeteday trying to get to the office, but it all closed, then word went around and I gave up. Ended up having to go back to a mates house (where I had to stay, couldnt get the train home), then get them to give me a lift to Watford Juntion this morning.

Asbolute crap. My top lips been stiff since about mid-morning yesterday.

Now, being that GWB says 2+2 = 78.3, does this mean we should go an invade France now? You know, in the name of freedom? After all, the have WMD - Wine of Mediocre Distinction

Our prayers are with you man. Dont worry about some of these guys here pretending they care. they just like waking up and seeing the wars drums being beaten. I hope noone you know has been injured/killed.

[Funken Monken]

^^^ Tip of hat in general direction.

I have to be honest, the consideration I've experienced not only here but form colleagues around the world has been incredible and a welcome 'virtual hug'.

[nicholasstanko]

^^^ Tip of hat in general direction.

I have to be honest, the consideration I've experienced not only here but form colleagues around the world has been incredible and a welcome 'virtual hug'.

Where do you stand now? Would you support the war or do you think that we need to seriously consider pulling out/using more diplomatic means? You've lived through terror so im really curious as to where you stand.

[Psycho4Bud]

Where do you stand now? Would you support the war or do you think that we need to seriously consider pulling out/using more diplomatic means? You've lived through terror so im really curious as to where you stand.

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)

And what diplomatic means do you suggest?

[amsterdam]

Where do you stand now? Would you support the war or do you think that we need to seriously consider pulling out/using more diplomatic means? You've lived through terror so im really curious as to where you stand.


we arent going to pull out.it isnt even an option.

[nicholasstanko]

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)

And what diplomatic means do you suggest?

First bruiser now you? What's your point of posting those references. YES okay we know their religion has discrepancies just like OUR religion does. assuming you conform more easily with christianity.

You cant just post that stuff and make everyone assume they're evil because of it. information age remember? that stuff doesnt work on people who actually care about the results of their actions against others.

[nicholasstanko]

we arent going to pull out.it isnt even an option.


Who says? keep pissing people off and who knows what lies in store? if bush or blair tried to keep people subjugated and insist on doing things their way they might find things a bit unpleasant when the riots start.

[amsterdam]

congress.

riots,nigga please.your gonna see a change in all that and you know it.

[Psycho4Bud]

First bruiser now you? What's your point of posting those references. YES okay we know their religion has discrepancies just like OUR religion does. assuming you conform more easily with christianity.

You cant just post that stuff and make everyone assume they're evil because of it. information age remember? that stuff doesnt work on people who actually care about the results of their actions against others.


Information age..EXACTLY! This is the interpretation of the Quron that the terrorists believe. As you would say, don't dodge the issue! How would you, as the leader of an industrialized country, deal with that type of logic?

Your always great to assume, I conform to no religious beliefs except for the 10 basic commandments that is pretty much a universal. Don't steal, kill, rape, you know, basic human decency. Of course, piss on me and I'll fuck ya up! "God given right?" Maybe, maybe not.

NOW, how would you negotiate with the mentallity that performed the actions yesterday?

[amsterdam]

you shoot all the extremists you can and let god or allah sort them out.

full metal jacket was great.

[Psycho4Bud]

Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
First bruiser now you? What's your point of posting those references. YES okay we know their religion has discrepancies just like OUR religion does. assuming you conform more easily with christianity.

You cant just post that stuff and make everyone assume they're evil because of it. information age remember? that stuff doesnt work on people who actually care about the results of their actions against others.




Information age..EXACTLY! This is the interpretation of the Quron that the terrorists believe. As you would say, don't dodge the issue! How would you, as the leader of an industrialized country, deal with that type of logic?

Your always great to assume, I conform to no religious beliefs except for the 10 basic commandments that is pretty much a universal. Don't steal, kill, rape, you know, basic human decency. Of course, piss on me and I'll fuck ya up! "God given right?" Maybe, maybe not.

NOW, how would you negotiate with the mentallity that performed the actions yesterday?

Still waiting for the reply Nic!

[BlueCat]

come on now...we can pick some disgusting stuff from the Christian bible too...

The Christian bible mundered innocent children....Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: (11:4-6) These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God (see 12:29-30) was premeditated.
11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Hmmmmm I thought we were all God's children....I guess not...

But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.....

this is a little severe isn't it?
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. (21:15, 17) Kill unruly children
A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed.
Does God want children to die?
Slavery is approved by God, and those who steal slaves must be killed.

21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

[BlueCat]

They are religious fanatics....just like the christian ones....you deal with them just like you would any nut....but you can't use their Koran as your weapon....

[amsterdam]

i agree.i believe any religous text COULD be taken many ways.

[Psycho4Bud]

I know that and Christian fanatics use that shit also....doesn't make them any better than AlQueda at all.
I'm just wondering how he would stop these people from further actions like that. He stated that with the "information age" people, such as himself, could see around that. Well, it is the beleif of AlQueda whether we like it or not. How would Nic solve this?

[nicholasstanko]

congress.

riots,nigga please.your gonna see a change in all that and you know it.

amsterdam....are you black? if you are then cool...if not then could you please refrain from your ghetto ebonic statements? Why would you use "street" language when you arent even willing to go through the dodgier areas to sign up.

[nicholasstanko]

Information age..EXACTLY! This is the interpretation of the Quron that the terrorists believe. As you would say, don't dodge the issue! How would you, as the leader of an industrialized country, deal with that type of logic?

Your always great to assume, I conform to no religious beliefs except for the 10 basic commandments that is pretty much a universal. Don't steal, kill, rape, you know, basic human decency. Of course, piss on me and I'll fuck ya up! "God given right?" Maybe, maybe not.

NOW, how would you negotiate with the mentallity that performed the actions yesterday?

You're just justifying extremism dealing with extremism. I would negotiate by not sending troops all the time to bomb their cities. that might be a great start. or how about doing something about the israeli government set up in the middle east that was supposed to piss them off in the first place.

Then if they continue to bug me even if i leave them alone, THEN the military force.

[nicholasstanko]

you shoot all the extremists you can and let god or allah sort them out.

full metal jacket was great.

im not surprised you enjoyed the film.

[nicholasstanko]

sorry for taking so long to reply p4b

[Psycho4Bud]

You're just justifying extremism dealing with extremism. I would negotiate by not sending troops all the time to bomb their cities. that might be a great start. or how about doing something about the israeli government set up in the middle east that was supposed to piss them off in the first place.

Then if they continue to bug me even if i leave them alone, THEN the military force.

Plan 2 please.
They have no country and no cities as demonstrated by the outrage of the middle east concerning their actions.

Israel is a great start but if you don't believe and follow the words of Allah you are an infedel and should die or be converted.

In order to appease these people we would have to convert to their extreem style of Islam and give up ALL rights. Are you willing to do that for peace?

Damn boss wants me to work..I SHALL RETURN! :D

[nicholasstanko]

Plan 2 please.
They have no country and no cities as demonstrated by the outrage of the middle east concerning their actions.

Israel is a great start but if you don't believe and follow the words of Allah you are an infedel and should die or be converted.

In order to appease these people we would have to convert to their extreem style of Islam and give up ALL rights. Are you willing to do that for peace?

Damn boss wants me to work..I SHALL RETURN! :D

Come back soon. But your words about following allah might be what the book says but the majority of muslims dont believe in supporting that practice. just like the majority of christians dont "dash the heads of babes agains the rocks"

I wont give up my rights. I wont take theirs either. And i wont let them try to convert me or my people forcibly. But how about we wait for them to actually try to do that before we jump the gun? or set up a sytem where we watch to see what they do? and how about an actual country to wage war with instead of an ideal?

[Funken Monken]

Where do you stand now? Would you support the war or do you think that we need to seriously consider pulling out/using more diplomatic means? You've lived through terror so im really curious as to where you stand.

Whats the war got to do with this? Simple answer to that one:

Fuck all.

I still dont support it, never did, and this has not changed my mind in anyway. Like I've said elsewhere, we may as well go an invade France - it makes about as much sense as the US going into Iraq (see previous answer).

[amsterdam]

you cant kill an iguana by cutting off its tail,you have to rip its heart out.

[Funken Monken]

Somewhat missplaced metaphor there dude.

[Psycho4Bud]

Come back soon. But your words about following allah might be what the book says but the majority of muslims dont believe in supporting that practice. just like the majority of christians dont "dash the heads of babes agains the rocks"

I wont give up my rights. I wont take theirs either. And i wont let them try to convert me or my people forcibly. But how about we wait for them to actually try to do that before we jump the gun? or set up a sytem where we watch to see what they do? and how about an actual country to wage war with instead of an ideal?

Agreed, most Muslims follow the peaceful interpretations of the Quran and should not be even remotely blamed for any of the extreemists actions!

Their goal is to either convert you or kill you, simple logic( on their behalf). Demonstrated yesterday in London.

Set up a system to watch to see what they do? Big brother is watching? National ID cards? When we implement a system to watch them, we also infringe on the rights of the people that have no affiliations like me and you. So how do we do this and maintain our civil liberties?

An actual country to wage war against? Which one? All countries you would suspect of harboring AlQueda has denounced yesterdays actions so we are left with what is more or less gangs in cities. Tough situation to deal with for me, you, and don't mean to piss ya off but Bush, Blair, etc......world leaders. Hell, even Putin has his hands full with the extreemists in Chechnia (I know I slaughtered that spelling).

[amsterdam]

muslims are at a huge risk also from these pee-ons.

[nicholasstanko]

Agreed, most Muslims follow the peaceful interpretations of the Quran and should not be even remotely blamed for any of the extreemists actions!

Their goal is to either convert you or kill you, simple logic( on their behalf). Demonstrated yesterday in London.

Set up a system to watch to see what they do? Big brother is watching? National ID cards? When we implement a system to watch them, we also infringe on the rights of the people that have no affiliations like me and you. So how do we do this and maintain our civil liberties?

An actual country to wage war against? Which one? All countries you would suspect of harboring AlQueda has denounced yesterdays actions so we are left with what is more or less gangs in cities. Tough situation to deal with for me, you, and don't mean to piss ya off but Bush, Blair, etc......world leaders. Hell, even Putin has his hands full with the extreemists in Chechnia (I know I slaughtered that spelling).

No i think you're misinterpreting me. We're both working men so it's cool .i understand the rush.

WHo's "they"? You keep saying it as if the iraqis are doing the terrorism. im not saying lets give the terrorists a big hug but i am saying let's not put ourselves in a position to be perceived as the bad guys either. then we have leverage to work with when we ask other countries to support us.

When i say watch them i wouldnt be asking for any overstepping of the spy intelligence agencies and what they do now. i meant use more satellites and whatever other gizmos they use nowadays. we dont need national id's. they havnt worked in spain and they sure dont work anywhere else. even the chinese are ready to revolt if such a system is implemented. and their government has proved to be way less than tolerant of dissenters.

right. there are many couintries with al-qaeda affliliations. why pick the one with little or absolutely no connection? is it because we dont want an ACTUAL war with a country that can fight back or because of bad intel?.

[amsterdam]

no connection?zarqawi fled to iraq after being shot in afghanistan and set up a training camp about a year and half before we went in.BOOM,CONNECTION.

not to mention his admitted paying of suicide bombers families in Palestine./connection number 2.

[amsterdam]

i promise we have 1000's of undrecover agents in all those countries.those are the people who die and you NEVER hear about.but they are there.

we have a long,long way to go with our spy network because it was destroyed in the 90's.gee thanks.

[nicholasstanko]

no connection?zarqawi fled to iraq after being shot in afghanistan and set up a training camp about a year and half before we went in.BOOM,CONNECTION.

not to mention his admitted paying of suicide bombers families in Palestine./connection number 2.

HE WENT TO IRAQ AFTER BEING SHOT IN AFGHANISTAN/ Thats what im saying!

We were in iraq before he got shot. he didnt bite a bullet and then move to iraq and take over the government. stop being silly. if you want to use that then what about the lybian syrian iranian...terrorists that cross over into iraq now on a daily basis?

[Funken Monken]

[QUOTE=amsterdam]i promise we have 1000's of undrecover agents in all those countries.those are the people who die and you NEVER hear about.but they are there.

QUOTE]

Well goin by what happend in london, THEY ARE DOING A SHIT JOB THAT AINT WORTH A CRAP

[amsterdam]

actually we werent there yet,we were still wasting that year at the U.N.(1 WHOLE YEAR)


shall i post some more pics of some of those dead terrorists that try to cross the border from operation arrowhead about a month ago.


this isnt gonna be some band-aid war.it gonna be LONG and hard.but we will win.i agree,we need to do more with those borders.i would send up about 2000 snipers and give them the green light to shoot on sight people sneaking across.

whats your plan?

[nicholasstanko]

actually we werent there yet,we were still wasting that year at the U.N.(1 WHOLE YEAR)


shall i post some more pics of some of those dead terrorists that try to cross the border from operation arrowhead about a month ago.


this isnt gonna be some band-aid war.it gonna be LONG and hard.but we will win.i agree,we need to do more with those borders.i would send up about 2000 snipers and give them the green light to shoot on sight people sneaking across.

whats your plan?

That's a better plan than just bombing everything. It still isnt that great because where would the engagement rules lie? we have soldiers now that snipe little kids thinking they might have a bomb on them.

[amsterdam]

did innocent people die in the bombing?YES.

i donate alot of money to the adopt a sniper and i am happy with their role.perhaps they wouldnt have to shoot them if the cowards didnt use them to carry arms or use children with downsyndrome to become bombs.

i am not even sure what the bombing everything comment was about.we were actually picking out what windows to shoot the missle through and what direction the blast should blow.i am sure some innocents were killed but saying we bombed everything is wrong.damned if you do ,damned if you dont.oh well.

[nicholasstanko]

did innocent people die in the bombing?YES.

i donate alot of money to the adopt a sniper and i am happy with their role.perhaps they wouldnt have to shoot them if the cowards didnt use them to carry arms or use children with downsyndrome to become bombs.

i am not even sure what the bombing everything comment was about.we were actually picking out what windows to shoot the missle through and what direction the blast should blow.i am sure some innocents were killed but saying we bombed everything is wrong.damned if you do ,damned if you dont.oh well.

im starting to see where youre coming from. the logic is a bit off in my opinion but hey...what can ya do.

on the alex jones show they have a british guest on the line talking about the british wont be behind blair. im not saying its gospel but alot of people are getting pissed on a large scale and i dont think they're going to fal for the "go git em" approach the way americans do.

[Psycho4Bud]

No i think you're misinterpreting me. We're both working men so it's cool .i understand the rush.

WHo's "they"? You keep saying it as if the iraqis are doing the terrorism. im not saying lets give the terrorists a big hug but i am saying let's not put ourselves in a position to be perceived as the bad guys either. then we have leverage to work with when we ask other countries to support us.

When i say watch them i wouldnt be asking for any overstepping of the spy intelligence agencies and what they do now. i meant use more satellites and whatever other gizmos they use nowadays. we dont need national id's. they havnt worked in spain and they sure dont work anywhere else. even the chinese are ready to revolt if such a system is implemented. and their government has proved to be way less than tolerant of dissenters.

right. there are many couintries with al-qaeda affliliations. why pick the one with little or absolutely no connection? is it because we dont want an ACTUAL war with a country that can fight back or because of bad intel?.

When I refer to "they" I mean AlQueda and associates. We could be doing nothing but good and "they" would still see us as the bad guys do to our religious beliefs.

What country at the present time would really be a challenge to us..only two. Russia and China. With the technology we possess other countries are definately not even close to being our equals...MILITARILY.

Use satellite imagery? Joe government looks on this forum and has a feeling that you are crossing a line. Guess who the camera is zoomed in on!

Bottom line is there is no easy answer to this situation. No enemy you can see or touch. No pinpoint position to attack. Yesterday at the G8 government heads from all the industrialized countries: U.S., Britan, France, Russia, China all stood together and denounced the actions. Iran, Syria, Palestine, Hezbolla, Hamas denounced the actions. Where do we start to look? How? I really believe our leaders throughout the world are looking at it in the same fassion. How do we get the terrorists while not pissing off the populous?

[pisshead]

because they see the governments using these terrorist attacks to get through provisions that otherwise people wouldn't want...and that people are overwhelmingly against.

but people are starting to realize that...and the effects the governments want from these 'terrorist' attacks is going to stop working.

[Psycho4Bud]

because they see the governments using these terrorist attacks to get through provisions that otherwise people wouldn't want...and that people are overwhelmingly against.

but people are starting to realize that...and the effects the governments want from these 'terrorist' attacks is going to stop working.

Without quoting Alex Jones, how would you stop the terrorist attacks from religious fanatics like AlQueda. Remember, they want to take away all your freedoms and convert you to their style of Islam.

[amsterdam]

people are gonna be upset no matter what we do.NOTHING will ever change that.we roll with the punches i guess.

i feel that it is great that people debate in our countries.its good.i always wonder if the terrorist look at that as weakness because they are wrong.the protests,the debates are all a sign that our way of life and beliefs are as strong as ever.they might differ person to person but we will join together and stomp some serious terrorist ass if they dont pipe down.

is democracy perfect?NO.is capitalism perfect?NO.but they are better than all the alternatives and they will prevail.

[nicholasstanko]

Without quoting Alex Jones, how would you stop the terrorist attacks from religious fanatics like AlQueda. Remember, they want to take away all your freedoms and convert you to their style of Islam.


How about reinforcing the border to keep them out? it wont be 100% efficient but its a damn sight better idea than whats being used now. and with no protection now what does that say about our priorities?

[amsterdam]

bush is pissing me off with that border issue.

NO illegal immigrant should have drivers permits.

NO illegal immigrant should recieve a penny of school funding in the united states.

perhaps those 2000 snipers could be used here?bet that makes em think twice about getting their backs wet.

[pisshead]

first of all, i don't believe al-qaeda was responsible for 9/11 or any major terrorist attack that results in big government action. i don't fear a muslim takeover of the country. i don't have to quote alex jones, this isn't about alex jones, alex jones isn't the only one in the country who thinks the way he does.

i think the enemy is the imf/world bank, military industrial complex that's building up a police state and destroying the constitution and bill of rights and eroding American sovereignty.

no one's talking about bush's new freedom initiative, the wide open border, the supreme court saying you have no property rights anymore, CAFTA and the FTAA...

they're doing more harm than muslims. there's less border patrol than there was 4 years ago...only the intelligence agencies and governments around the world stand to gain from terrorism.

[amsterdam]

first of all, i don't believe al-qaeda was responsible for 9/11 or any major terrorist attack that results in big government action. i don't fear a muslim takeover of the country. i don't have to quote alex jones, this isn't about alex jones, alex jones isn't the only one in the country who thinks the way he does.

i think the enemy is the imf/world bank, military industrial complex that's building up a police state and destroying the constitution and bill of rights and eroding American sovereignty.

no one's talking about bush's new freedom initiative, the wide open border, the supreme court saying you have no property rights anymore, CAFTA and the FTAA...

they're doing more harm than muslims.


quality stuff.

[amsterdam]

perhaps you should watch the video where they admit they were responsible?

oh,i forgot.that video and all the rest were created in the white house bowling ally.

[Psycho4Bud]

How about reinforcing the border to keep them out? it wont be 100% efficient but its a damn sight better idea than whats being used now. and with no protection now what does that say about our priorities?

Agree with ya on that! We really need more border control but what about our "allies" in Europe? Do we just say fuck ya, take care of yourselves?

[amsterdam]

england has refused to take serious action against terrorist living in their country and now look.i feel bad saying even the french have much harder terrorism laws and have been deporting muslim extremists for years.

[Psycho4Bud]

first of all, i don't believe al-qaeda was responsible for 9/11 or any major terrorist attack that results in big government action. i don't fear a muslim takeover of the country. i don't have to quote alex jones, this isn't about alex jones, alex jones isn't the only one in the country who thinks the way he does.

i think the enemy is the imf/world bank, military industrial complex that's building up a police state and destroying the constitution and bill of rights and eroding American sovereignty.

no one's talking about bush's new freedom initiative, the wide open border, the supreme court saying you have no property rights anymore, CAFTA and the FTAA...

they're doing more harm than muslims. there's less border patrol than there was 4 years ago...only the intelligence agencies and governments around the world stand to gain from terrorism.

Over 50 dead and 700 wounded and you state that these agencies are doing more harm than Muslim extreemists! It must be nice to have your own agenda and fuck everyone else in the meantime. And you say the republicans are cut throats!

[nicholasstanko]

Whats the war got to do with this? Simple answer to that one:

Fuck all.

I still dont support it, never did, and this has not changed my mind in anyway. Like I've said elsewhere, we may as well go an invade France - it makes about as much sense as the US going into Iraq (see previous answer).

good reading. brits make more sense than americans sometimes.

[Psycho4Bud]

first of all, i don't believe al-qaeda was responsible for 9/11 or any major terrorist attack that results in big government action. i don't fear a muslim takeover of the country. i don't have to quote alex jones, this isn't about alex jones, alex jones isn't the only one in the country who thinks the way he does.

i think the enemy is the imf/world bank, military industrial complex that's building up a police state and destroying the constitution and bill of rights and eroding American sovereignty.

no one's talking about bush's new freedom initiative, the wide open border, the supreme court saying you have no property rights anymore, CAFTA and the FTAA...

they're doing more harm than muslims. there's less border patrol than there was 4 years ago...only the intelligence agencies and governments around the world stand to gain from terrorism.

P.S. You forgot to mention the "Industrial Military Complex"! :D

[nicholasstanko]

bush is pissing me off with that border issue.

NO illegal immigrant should have drivers permits.

NO illegal immigrant should recieve a penny of school funding in the united states.

perhaps those 2000 snipers could be used here?bet that makes em think twice about getting their backs wet.

we both agree on that one! it always boggled me how pot smokers who just wanna sit inside and not break any laws get treated like scum while people knowingly do the best they can to not follow the laws and they get drivers licenses.

smoke pot...lose license

illegally enter a country....get a free one and all the health benefits you can handle.

[nicholasstanko]

Agree with ya on that! We really need more border control but what about our "allies" in Europe? Do we just say fuck ya, take care of yourselves?

nah they can reinforce their borders too.

[Psycho4Bud]

we both agree on that one! it always boggled me how pot smokers who just wanna sit inside and not break any laws get treated like scum while people knowingly do the best they can to not follow the laws and they get drivers licenses.

smoke pot...lose license

illegally enter a country....get a free one and all the health benefits you can handle.

WELL SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! At last we agree 110%!! I knew it had to happen sooner or later! :D

[amsterdam]

i read in time(bullshit i know) that states are trying to allow funding for illegals to attend college?that is the craziest shit i have ever heard beside jackson getting off.

[nicholasstanko]

WELL SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! At last we agree 110%!! I knew it had to happen sooner or later! :D

fuck yeh! you know pb4 we're not really that different. i think youre a patriot but want to preserve patriotism in different ways. i first came on these boards to talk about smoking pot all the time but ive forgotten about it completely because i always head for politics first.

but i guess weed isnt...everything. but enough of this blasphemy.

at least something positive came from this war...have a good one.

[pisshead]

trying to allow? it already goes on.

[nicholasstanko]

i read in time(bullshit i know) that states are trying to allow funding for illegals to attend college?that is the craziest shit i have ever heard beside jackson getting off.

i think oj getting off is worse than michael. lets not kid ourselves. if convicted he would have been in a posh country club and dont forget people woulda rioted. seriously.

okay ill stop hi-jacking now.

[Psycho4Bud]

OJ?? NOOOO, must resist!!!

[amsterdam]

OJ?? NOOOO, must resist!!!


watch your opinions around here psycho,they could get you banned if someone dosent like what you have to say. :D

check out the lounge and see what i mean.

[Psycho4Bud]

watch your opinions around here psycho,they could get you banned if someone dosent like what you have to say. :D

check out the lounge and see what i mean.

Most my life I've been getting banned....won't be nothing new! :D

Well, this was a good day of work! LOL Time to punch out and hit the bricks!!

[makor01]

amsterdam....are you black? if you are then cool...if not then could you please refrain from your ghetto ebonic statements? Why would you use "street" language when you arent even willing to go through the dodgier areas to sign up.

oh jesus common nich.

[Fengzi]

bush is pissing me off with that border issue.

NO illegal immigrant should have drivers permits.

NO illegal immigrant should recieve a penny of school funding in the united states.

perhaps those 2000 snipers could be used here?bet that makes em think twice about getting their backs wet.
Damn Amsterdamn, I actually agree with you on something. If this pisses you off where you are be glad your not out here in California. We are the wealthiest state and on our own would have one of the worlds biggest economies but its still so fucked up out here. Our schools are a joke, the roads are fucking tore up to shit, the state is contantly bankrupt, etc. etc. Why? Because millions are spent every year supporting our huge population of illegal immegrants.

I have no problems with legal immigration, my wife's a legal immigrant, but illegal is illegal. The hell with rewarding them for it.

[Marlboroman]

I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!


They will argue us all into submission.

Its this very conflict they need in order to keep us confused as long as possible.

Denial comes in the form of "I dont care".

Apathy will enslave us all.

Those of you that dont see what is going on around you deserve to live the life they set forth for you.

The rest will do what they can to fight for your freedom.

Peace.

[potpimp]

now watch the national id legislation sail through parliament...you won't be able to travel without it.

i feel sorry for the people who died and their families, and also for those who are going to have to live in the resulting id card dictatorship because of it. which won't keep them safe by the way.

the easter bunny could have made a website and claimed responsibility...if we're really sold that al-qaeda did this because of the war, i'd say it has MI5 or some other intelligence agency written all over it.

but i guess we'll see who stands to gain from this...qui bono?



Alex jones said, alex jones said. Get an original thought.
If you think the government of britain destroyed their multi billion tourist industry to install an ID card you are an idiot.

[potpimp]

because they see the governments using these terrorist attacks to get through provisions that otherwise people wouldn't want...and that people are overwhelmingly against.

but people are starting to realize that...and the effects the governments want from these 'terrorist' attacks is going to stop working.


It wasnt the government it was the muslims.