Limits of Dissent

[Torog]

The Limits of Dissent
By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 http://billoreilly.com/currentarticle



No country can win a conflict the way the USA is fighting the war on terror. Every move the Bush administration makes is scrutinized, criticized and roundly chastised by dissenters who firmly believe the President, himself, is responsible for much of the anti-American hatred around the world. The chorus is deafening. Bush "lied" about Iraq. Bush is violating civil liberties by supporting the Patriot Act. The President sanctions torture and is a major human rights violator. Every day there is another page one story telling Americans we are the bad guys.
The dissenters claim that what they're doing is patriotic, that they love America and just want to improve it. They claim that loyal dissent is one of the finest traditions of democracy.

But there is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war, which is clearly what some Americans are doing. Senator Richard Durbin's recent comments comparing a few rough interrogations at Guantanamo Bay to what the Soviets and Nazis did was number one with a bullet on Al Jazeera. That anti-American network couldn't get enough of Dick Durbin. For days his opinion echoed through the Arab world, inflaming even more hatred toward the USA.

Like Jane Fonda, Durbin claimed he was just trying to stop an immoral policy. But that argument is hollow in the face of the facts. More than 68,000 interrogations have taken place since 9/11 and the alleged abuses number in the hundreds. The Pentagon says it is actively prosecuting valid cases of abuse and, in a time of war, it might be wise to give the U.S. military the benefit of the doubt.

During World War II, widely considered the last "good" war, there was tight government control of information. No pictures of dead American soldiers were released to the public until 1943, two years after the conflict began. The Office of War Information made it quite clear to the press that any intentional undermining of the conflict would be punished. Even Hollywood scripts and newsreels were vetted. The U.S. government strictly censored what Americans saw and heard about the war, even where atrocities were concerned.

After German SS troops massacred 86 American soldiers at Malmedy in Belgium on December 17th, 1944, some units like the US 11th Armored Division took revenge on captured German soldiers. In the Pacific, relatively few Japanese prisoners were taken in the brutal island fights. But the folks back home never heard about those things or what techniques were used to interrogate prisoners who might know where the next ambush would be. The American military did what they had to do in order to win. As General Patton once said to his army: "I do not advocate standing Germans up against the wall and shooting them ... so shoot the sons of bitches before you get them to the wall."

George Patton would not be allowed to serve in combat today. The New York Times would make sure of that. The International Red Cross would be all over Patton and his aggressive Third Army. Dick Durbin would be appalled. But it is Patton that we need right now to defeat the barbarians who would kill all of us in the name of Allah. The "human rights" people really have no clue. The war on terror is the ultimate war. If Al Qaeda gets nuclear weapons, those people will use them.

It is true that the United States must stand above the Huns. We must not stoop to torturing detainees or committing battlefield atrocities. But mistakes happen in all wars and we are now fighting an invisible enemy. They wear no uniforms, they obey no rules of engagement.

It is time for Americans to decide exactly who is looking out for them. The government and military, which is trying to defeat vicious killers, or those who are on a jihad to undermine the war on terror in the name of patriotism? The battle lines are clearly drawn. Which side are you on?

[F L E S H]

There's American democracy for you: if you disagree, you're unpatriotic and anti-American. Thank god for freedom of speech or I might have been worried for a while...

[XTC]

Ya, if only the Iraqi war was about "Spreading Democracy". You have a big oil Vice President with a Big Oil Commander in Cheif(With a Big Oil Daddy). Also, Rice used to have a oil Liner named after her in her big oil days. You also have two wars in Big Oils Nations. The new leader of Afganistan is also a Big oil Guru. I know it's all innocent coindence.

[Psycho4Bud]

Ya, if only the Iraqi war was about "Spreading Democracy". You have a big oil Vice President with a Big Oil Commander in Cheif(With a Big Oil Daddy). Also, Rice used to have a oil Liner named after her in her big oil days. You also have two wars in Big Oils Nations. The new leader of Afganistan is also a Big oil Guru. I know it's all innocent coindence.

Afghanistan a "big oil nation"? Maybe hash oil! :D

[bhallg2k]

Hey, thanks. I needed a good reminder of how big an idiot Bill O'Reilly is.

[BlueCat]

Hey Torog...how are you? I Thought since you seem to avoid actually answering questions and giving solutions I would ask them directly....

Oh and BTW you stated on another thread that you bring out the worst in me....

On the contrary Torog....You bring out the best...I love political debate. You keep me on my toes.

And vernacular speech does not make me any less a lady.....that's those White Christian bare foot and pregnant values hindering your judgment.....
And you know us Army brats have to give the pantie waist Navy boys a hard time...it can't be help.
Now if you could take a few moments from your O'lielly worship...to answer a few questions..
.
There is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war. REMEMBER this dissent is NOT ON THE WAR ON TERROR but rather in the president's handling of it.

Unless you are completely illiterate when it comes too history you can't possibly think our government has NEVER been at fault...so just how long should politically correct silence last?

Where do you draw the line on descent? Should we all be quiet little comrades and do as we are told?
Would you complain about anything the present Administration does? ever?

When do you feel disagreement becomes harmful?
Where does your line between honest dissent and destructive undermining begin? You complain constantly about dissent.. so you must believe that we should all be rank and file mindless automatons....if not then answer my questions..

We cannot allow democracy to be destroyed based on the words of a few who believe dissent is UN American or treasonous, when the opposite is more true. IF the president makes moves we think are wrong, he should hear about it...

IF the president NEVER hears about dissent, then he will think he is doing just fine and he isn't in my opinion and obviously the majority of America now.

The fact is where there were no terrorists we now have thousands. Where the world once regarded us as the best we are now regarded suspiciously as having ulterior motives. IF we are so concerned about stopping terrorism then why haven't we invaded countries that we actually provably know are supporting terrorism like Saudi Arabia? Most the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi...why hasn't your hero gone after them?

IF we are so concerned about human rights, dignity and democracy, why aren't we in The Sudan saving the thousands who are being murdered as we speak, OR in Zimbabwe where genocide is being carried out as we write? Why are we selling out to and dealing with China a known communist country with huge anti Christian and human rights violations?

WHY NOTHING?
Afghanistan was A GREAT TARGET and very few people objected to it. (but Bush pulled troops out on Afghanistan do you not see this as a lapse in judgement?) The world has realized the Iraq war was not a necessity.... as did millions of Americans. Think about this.... The world which was on our side after 9/11 and in going to Afghanistan mounted the single greatest protest in the history of the world about Iraq.


Is the rest of the WORLD wrong Torog or do they just not matter?

looking forward to your reply..
Cat

[Fengzi]

There's American democracy for you: if you disagree, you're unpatriotic and anti-American. Thank god for freedom of speech or I might have been worried for a while...
Yep, you a good American only if you agree with Torog and good ol' G Dubya. Everyone else is a terrorist.

"The way the USA is fighting the war on terror" what a joke. The problem is that Bush is using "the war on terror" to further his own agenda. I, like most people, had no problem with going after Al Queada and the Taliban. Even countries that are usually against our foriegn policy didn't have a problem with it. They had directly attacked the U.S and our response was justified.

Going after Saddam and Iraq is another story, however. Bush wanted this, period. Long before 9/11 Bush wanted to teach Iraq a lesson. Whether it was for oil, to finish what his father started, to get back at Saddam for the assasination attempt on his father, or whatever, he WANTED to go to war with Iraq. 9/11 and the war on terror was just a convenient excuse.

The ironic thing was that going into Iraq only made the situation worse. Not only did we change focus from Afghanistan where it should be but we just pissed the terrorists off giveng them more reason to attack us. Plus we gave them more tools to recruit those borderline, not quite ready for the jihad yet, Muslims. The surest way to get stung is to stir up the hornets nest.

In my opinion Bush is clearly deserving of any criticism he gets. He is already out of control. At least the criticism will hopefully make his keepers think twice before agreeing to everything he wants. Can you imagine what he could be capable of if everyone just shut their mouth and agreed with him?

[Torog]

Hey Torog...how are you? I Thought since you seem to avoid actually answering questions and giving solutions I would ask them directly....

Oh and BTW you stated on another thread that you bring out the worst in me....

On the contrary Torog....You bring out the best...I love political debate. You keep me on my toes.

And vernacular speech does not make me any less a lady.....that's those White Christian bare foot and pregnant values hindering your judgment.....
And you know us Army brats have to give the pantie waist Navy boys a hard time...it can't be help.
Now if you could take a few moments from your O'lielly worship...to answer a few questions..
.
There is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war. REMEMBER this dissent is NOT ON THE WAR ON TERROR but rather in the president's handling of it.

Unless you are completely illiterate when it comes too history you can't possibly think our government has NEVER been at fault...so just how long should politically correct silence last?

Where do you draw the line on descent? Should we all be quiet little comrades and do as we are told?
Would you complain about anything the present Administration does? ever?

When do you feel disagreement becomes harmful?
Where does your line between honest dissent and destructive undermining begin? You complain constantly about dissent.. so you must believe that we should all be rank and file mindless automatons....if not then answer my questions..

We cannot allow democracy to be destroyed based on the words of a few who believe dissent is UN American or treasonous, when the opposite is more true. IF the president makes moves we think are wrong, he should hear about it...

IF the president NEVER hears about dissent, then he will think he is doing just fine and he isn't in my opinion and obviously the majority of America now.

The fact is where there were no terrorists we now have thousands. Where the world once regarded us as the best we are now regarded suspiciously as having ulterior motives. IF we are so concerned about stopping terrorism then why haven't we invaded countries that we actually provably know are supporting terrorism like Saudi Arabia? Most the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi...why hasn't your hero gone after them?

IF we are so concerned about human rights, dignity and democracy, why aren't we in The Sudan saving the thousands who are being murdered as we speak, OR in Zimbabwe where genocide is being carried out as we write? Why are we selling out to and dealing with China a known communist country with huge anti Christian and human rights violations?

WHY NOTHING?
Afghanistan was A GREAT TARGET and very few people objected to it. (but Bush pulled troops out on Afghanistan do you not see this as a lapse in judgement?) The world has realized the Iraq war was not a necessity.... as did millions of Americans. Think about this.... The world which was on our side after 9/11 and in going to Afghanistan mounted the single greatest protest in the history of the world about Iraq.


Is the rest of the WORLD wrong Torog or do they just not matter?

looking forward to your reply..
Cat
Howdy Blue Cat,

Well..where I'm from,women are to be treated with the respect,that a lady deserves..but by the same token,women are expected to act like ladies..it's but one aspect of the Cultural war,here in America. On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults. On my side--everything begins with a good character,humility before our Creator and gratefulness for our many blessings.

You say that your dissent is not on the war on terror,but rather,the president's handling of such..I take it then,that you do realize that the terrorists must be stopped ? Is your solution,appeasement and surrender ? The terrorists have no just cause..there is no legitimacey to brutal oppression..yet you seem to think that there is..if it means bringing down Bush and those whom you despise.

I have never said that our goverment has never made any mistakes..we are only human and therefore,prone to making mistakes..you hold America,to a much higher standard,than anyone else..you expect us to be perfect and when we ain't..it proves your point,and you react by supporting the terrorists against your own country.

I draw the line on dissent,when it becomes violent and gives aid and comfort,to the enemy..do you really believe that you have the right to burn down someone's home,because you hate Bush ? Or someone's business ? Do you believe that the 'dissent' from the Rodney King fiasco,was justified ? That blacks had the right to 'dissent',by dragging a white man from his tractor-trailer rig-and crush his skull with concrete chunks ?

I do complain about Bush,especially in regards to the border issue..in fact,I want him to be embarrassed over it. I don't expect nor do I want,there to be no dissent,I agree that the president of any admin,needs to know how the people feel.

As for creating terrorists,where there were none..that's a good thing,it brings out of the woodwork,the enemies of Freedom..it's our duty-to vanquish them all. Those that decide to become terrorists,also desire to sieze power and rule brutally..we don't want them around..do we ? You act like, and those who share your beliefs,that some humans have the 'right' to rule brutally and that it's a part of their 'culture'..so therefore,we should not interferre with their plans of brutal oppression.

Suadia Arabia,will git it's come-uppins..but because they provide oil for so much of the world,strategically,we cannot disrupt the economies of every country that relies on Saudi oil..including our own. I think that a large part of your opposition,and that of your fellow comrades,is that y'all have very little understanding of military strategy and warfare. The middle-east,needs democracy and stability..and if it be God's Will..it will happen. However,God has already said that there will be Armegeddon,becuase the arab muslims,which you appear to proudly support,will finally be emboldened enough by the support of the Left,that they will attack Israel again.

The reason we ain't in the Sudan or Zimbabwe,is because of 2 reasons..an act of war,was committed against America,and we are in the process of reacting to that..and the other reason is,is because your beloved UN,is preventing us from going there.

As for Afghanistan,again,you're not understanding the strategic implications,in order to support the leadership..we had to back off and let them handle things more directly,because afghani's would percieve it as a violation of their sovereignity and because we need arab-muslims to show to other arab muslims,that there is something wrong and illegitimate,about the Jihad.

Iraq,was an excellent place to start the stabilization of the middle-east and to prevent any further efforts by saddam and sons,to further erode stability. It places us next door to those countries,who pose the greatest threat to the region and to the security of Israel. If the rest of the world,opposes the spread of democracy and freedom-then Yes..they are wrong..jihadists and commies,will not deviate from their bloody goals..unless someone is there to stop em dead in their tracks.

Have a good one...

[BlueCat]

WTF? "On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults."

How can you make a statement like this? Do you personally know everyone on "my side" as you call it?

I have to go back in the hospital for a bone marrow screen but I will be back early next week and I will respond to your post.......
Have a safe 4th.....

Cat.....

[NowhereMan]

Hey, thanks. I needed a good reminder of how big an idiot Bill O'Reilly is.
u owe me one toke i lost luaghing my ass off
naa nevermind it was worth it

here is a thought
funny how a grian a truth can fester into some pile of crap

[Torog]

WTF? "On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults."

How can you make a statement like this? Do you personally know everyone on "my side" as you call it?

I have to go back in the hospital for a bone marrow screen but I will be back early next week and I will respond to your post.......
Have a safe 4th.....

Cat.....
Howdy Blue Cat,

I don't have to know everybody on your side,the Left,because if they possess a liberal mind-set,decency,good character and a black and white moral code,are all despised by the liberal mind-set. You don't know everybody on my side,yet you describe them all as Southern-fried,ignorant hicks,even if they possess a doctorate or phd..you wrote off fly-over country,a long time ago.

I will continue to pray for your health to improve..like I said before,I feel uncomfortable argueing with a lady,especially one that's suffering from ill health.

I hope that God answers my prayers and that your health improves..Get well soon :)

Have a good one....

[Sgt. Pepper]

I don't have to know everybody on your side,the Left,because if they possess a liberal mind-set,decency,good character and a black and white moral code,are all despised by the liberal mind-set.


As a liberal, I have to agree. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's decent people with a good character.

As for morality, the Bible isn't the only source of it. People can still have black and white convictions that differ from the Bible's prescription of morality. For example, many people are dead-set that homosexuals should be afforded the same rights as heterosexuals. There are many people who are CERTAIN that there's nothing wrong with sex before marriage. Hell, if you wanna go even further, you could say plenty of sick fucks are absolutely convinced that there is nothing wrong with giving it to the pet goat every night. These people still have black-and-white convictions, only they're different from the Bible.

[BlueCat]

Ok I hope one day you will see the light Torog...I know living in Texas you don't get as much anti Bush stuff so I will give you the benefit of the doubt..You are sheltered..I lived in river oaks for a while...when the Bush's were there...I have disliked them for quite a while...and have spent most my life researching their family...They are the enemy not me...you'll see that one day
now lets get to your post....

Torog says...where I come from women are expected to act like ladies..it's but one aspect of the Cultural war,here in America. On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults. On my side--everything begins with a good character,humility before our Creator and gratefulness for our many blessings.....

So do you think all liberal thinking women that stand up for what they believe in are unlady like feminazis?

and what side would your daughter the warrior princess be on? I notice she seems to support the Alex Jones site....LMAO good for her! You go girl...Hands in the air for Xena!! Sorry your dads such a narrow minded asshole it must be rough for you....

http://warriorhut.homestead.com/ http://itap.homestead.com/

As for the way women are treated where you come from....I know 1st hand about that too. I find the "lady talk quite humorous coming from you. Where I come from the men don't grow hair so wild on their face they can chew food and floss their teeth at the same time ...how many hairballs do you cough up a week anyway?

well lets look at how they treat the ladies where you are....

Of the women killed in 2000 in Texas, 45% were murdered by their intimate male partners. This is higher than the national average of 28% reported by the FBI.
Source: Texas Council on Family Violence
Texas has the highest rate of uninsured womenâ??30%.
Texas has highest rate of uninsured people...
Texas has the 2nd highest rate of births to adolescents aged 15-17
Texas has the 3rd highest rate of pregnancies to adolescents aged 15-17

Texas has the lowest rate of provision for contraceptive services to women in need...
Texas does not require schools to provide sexuality education
If a course providing sexuality education is taught, it must teach abstinence
Texas uses no state funding streams to provide for family planning services

and now Texas is considering legislation (HB 16) that would give pharmacists the legal right to refuse to fill prescriptions for Emergency contraception in the case of rape and other hormonal contraceptives regardless of the patientâ??s need for them.
http://www.ppnt.org/default.asp?pageid=917
More than 226,000 children and 104,000 adults are raped every year in Texas

Yep they really know how to treat the ladies where you are from.... :p

to be continued...

[pisshead]

duh, we all know that all criminals are liberals...

haven't you gotten it yet? liberals...bad...conservatives...good. there is only a left and a right, that's it.

then again, you can't really call george bush a conservative...he's basically clinton on steroids.

[BlueCat]

You say you draw the line on dissent when it becomes violent...I have never been violent...you on the other hand can't wait to shoot some Mexicans crossing the border....and then you jump to Rodney king which has nothing to do with the dissent over the Iraqi war and the liar we have for a commander in chief...as always you change subjects to avoid answering the question....
you evidently have a problem with dissidents when we call to task the mistakes Bush is making because you have said we are assisting the terrorist and we lack values.....

Yours is a false patriotism you and your leaders worship national power, and national greatness, expressed as power over other peoples...

You can say I aid terrorist and call me what you will but I know that I belong to the patriots in this country that do not march to military time. We prefer the gentle strains of "America the Beautiful" to the strident cadences of "Hail to the Chief. We are the true Americans. Our patriotism is rooted in the love of one's own land and of humanity as a whole. We find no glory in puffing up the country by pulling others' down... We don't pick and chop at the constitution and the bible to feed our violent nature, nor do we feed the corporate greed of this ad administration...
We believe there should always be a government of, by and for the people not just the RICH people. The right has a habit of routinely substituting flag-waving for reason...... and you are playing right into that premise...

You are in the company of those who hold money dearer than truth, who, in order to spare themselves the pain of thought, are willing to inflict untold sufferings on others.

With this wonderful invention of cyber space the world has become a smaller place. We see the world from a macro view not the narrow micro view you are clinging too.

Dissent is growing, The size of our group is forever expanding and we as citizens
hold to a set of values older than Bush and more enduring than this single (misguided) administration. We hold to an insistence that the needs of people come before the display of hardware... and the WORLD not just the USA matters.
We hold that all human life is valuable, and we do not view the different nationalities, races, religions, sexual orientations and genders of the world as a threat.

By confusing patriotism with unconditional support for government policy you are doing core damage to the meaning of American citizenship, especially during time of war, you disgrace the very notion of democracy and the fabric in which this nation was founded...

[BlueCat]

Torog says...Saudi arabia,will git it's come-uppins.. and y'all have very little understanding of military strategy and warfare.... this is truly a humorous statement...

you are showing your age Torog...it is very old school to believe that we as a nation are just too stupid to understand politics and foreign policy...that was an old and convenient excuse the right has historically used...but it will no longer work...this is the information age....the info is out there ...you may be too dumb to understand it but don't assume everyone is....

When leaders appeal to patriotism, they mobilize citizens by invoking foreign threats that they think cannot be assessed by ordinary people, except sometimes when it is too late, as in the aftermath of war. They would like you to believe that military strategy and foreign policy is just too difficult a subject for us simple minded citizens..... THINK AGAIN

Many of the same American corporate executives who think we are just too dumb to grasp foreign policy have reaped millions of dollars from arms and oil deals with the Saudi monarchy. They have served or currently serve at the highest levels of U.S. government, The public records are there why don't you look.
Those lucrative financial relationships call into question the ability of America's political elite to make tough foreign policy decisions about the kingdom that produced Osama bin Laden and is the biggest incubator for anti-Western Islamic terrorists....

Bush's chief of staff Andrew Card announced that the Saudis are "wonderful allies in this war against terrorists....
the official position of the Bush administration is that the Saudi regime is a friend. According to Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, â??Saudi Arabia is a long-standing friend and ally of the United States.....WOW sounds like they are really gonna "git it".....

REALITY BITE FOR TOROG: Nowhere is the revolving U.S.-Saudi money wheel more evident than within President Bush's own coterie of foreign policy advisers
http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/headlines01/1211-05.htm

[BlueCat]

You continue to ignore the lies Bush told to get us in this war...and then there is my favorite lie ..remember when Bush recalled that the U.S. humanitarian mission in Somalia.... he said it had "changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong."

"The mission was changed, and as a result, our nation paid a price," Bush continued. "And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building." He added the Bush administration, if he was elected, would "absolutely not" indulge in nation planning. HAHAHAHA And so we launch another round of nation building in Iraq, even as the Bush administration struggles to rebuild a nation in Afghanistan.....what say you to this Torog?

Bush also pledged during the same debate to be "humble" in his foreign policy and not appear to be throwing our superpower weight around. No matter how the president's foreign policy is viewed by Americans or others around the world, the word "humble" couldn't possibly fit. HAHAHA it is almost funny...no wait it gets better.....

During the Wake Forest debate, Bush declared: "It really depends upon how our nation conducts its foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, they'll respect us." Can you believe those words! You bought it hook line and sinker.... didn't you?
it seems your hero is a liar.....

[BlueCat]

Torog says: As for Afghanistan,again,you're not understanding the strategic implications,in order to support the leadership..we had to back off and let them handle things more directly...
Poor Torog, it is you that does not have a grasp of foreign policy and warfare...it is really sad..

Afghanistan is more decentralized NOW than it was under the tyrannical Taliban, and there is a sharp rise in violence as well as a tremendous rise in the opium and heroin trade, making the country's the world's largest producer of these drugs....

U.S. Special Forces who were trained to speak Arabic were pulled out of Afghanistan and sent to Iraq....As were many soldiers even though all evidence was pointing to Bin Laden being in Afghanistan..it was feared he would flee thru Pakistan....Bush did not make any effort to use U.S. forces to seal the border with Pakistan....like father like son....all Bush could think of was settling his dispute with "Saddam the man who tried to kill my daddy Hussein......

this administration blew a precious opportunity to use NATO "to launch the war on terror." in Afghanistan....Bush squandered the opportunity to eliminate al Qaeda.
Saying you think that Iraq was a great place to start only shows your ignorance when it comes to military strategy..Bush has strengthened our enemies by going off on a completely unnecessary tangent, the invasion of Iraq instead of holding fast in Afghanistan and due to his lack of military experience a new al Qaeda has emerged and is growing even stronger
but then what should we expect from a drunken coke head who has absolutely NO war experience....

In his latest speech Bush never referred to his earlier reasons for going to war in Iraq. He did not even mention, the word 'Afghanistan' not one time. Even though our soldiers continue to be wounded and continue to die there. It seems Bush has forgotten them. He did not tell us what became of his promise to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and the "people who claim to be responsible for attacking our country..Bush made no mention of his vice-president's "last throes" ruminations. and He certainly didn't mention the Chinook shot down in Afghanistan....

What say you Torog? How long are you going to ride this lame horse?

[BlueCat]

Then theres the remark you made about the CIA leak...what was it again...you thought it was a democrat? LMFAO

President George Bush's closest political adviser, Karl Rove, was yesterday at the centre of a criminal investigation into allegations that he leaked the name of a CIA agent in an attempt to suppress criticism of the administration's Iraq policy, in what is fast becoming the administration's worst scandal since coming to office.
The White House fended off calls for an independent inquiry but urged its staff yesterday to cooperate with a justice department investigation.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=66427&d=5&m=7&y=2005

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1053191,00.html


For all intent and purposes, the man in President's pilot seat is a traitor -- a traitor to his county and to those who put their lives on the line for his country

You have a good day....I know I will... ;)

[BlueCat]

Oh I almost forgot....remember this statement?

BUSH:"If there's a leak in my administration," said the President, "I want to know who it is. And that person would be taken care of"

HAHAHAHA

[Juggalotus17]

I can't fucking stand how AMERICANS are calling AMERICA the bad guys when we let these fucking guantanamo bay terrorists pray, eat BETTER FOOD THAN OUR SOLDIERS, and live a POW's life!!!!

AL QUIDA TOOK OUR MEN, AND CUT THEIR FUCKING HEAD OFF, VIDEO TAPED IT, AND LET EVERYONE SEE IT.

Libreralism is a FUCKING DISEASE. People need to grow some fucking balls.

And if the war was for oil, then why are our gas prices so goddamn high? And even if it WAS for oil, WHY WOULD YOU BE COMPLAINING!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? *OUR* COUNTRY IS GETTING THE OIL, NOT FRANCE OR SOMETHING.

HOW CAN THESE PEOPLE BE SO BLATANTLY BRAINWASHED BY THE MEDIA?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

GROW. SOME. BALLS.

[Stedric]

Libreralism is a FUCKING DISEASE. People need to grow some fucking balls.

And America put into power the Shah of Iran. This wonderful milestone of US-Middle Eastern relations was fond of taking the children of dissident's and cutting of their hands.

Don't fool yourself into thinking America has ever had a problem with bloodthirsty, ruthless terrorists.

[makor01]

he is completely right about the pow's living a better life than our soldiers...so true.

[Edgar]

And if the war was for oil, then why are our gas prices so goddamn high? And even if it WAS for oil, WHY WOULD YOU BE COMPLAINING!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? *OUR* COUNTRY IS GETTING THE OIL, NOT FRANCE OR SOMETHING.

What you think its a good idea for countries invade other countries in order to get resources they dont own? (Not that thats why i think we went to war in Iraq.)Grow some frontal lobes. Your just damn lucky you live in america. Many wars are started over resources, and you and I are lucky we wern't born into that situation. Its real easy to act like a big man when your sittin behind our oversized military, but when your just some average joe in a weak country thats being exploited for its resources (or monetary and or political gains), or when you're just caught up in a war that you never wanted any part of, then you begin to see things a little differently.

Tell me what you think we have accomplished or will accomplish in Iraq, you said yourself our gas prices arn't going down, so what the fuck are we in this for? Lets look at the reasons why we went to war in Iraq; oops, was their a legitimate reason?. Apparently we have no clear answer to this question. The official story from the bush administration has been changed about 4 times! Countries should have a damn good reason to invade other countries, and ours didn't have one.


AL QUIDA TOOK OUR MEN, AND CUT THEIR FUCKING HEAD OFF, VIDEO TAPED IT, AND LET EVERYONE SEE IT.


Of course we lost troops, thats what happens in wars. (And it would happen with or without the incidents at guantanamo bay, but dont think i didn't notice how you conveniently left those incidents out or your little speech about how good their prison food is.) Still think it was such a great idea to go to war in Iraq?
Well thats on you.

The only thing we've accomplished in Iraq was to rally support for new terrorists and bring old terrorists together.

Closemindedness is the fucking disease.

And by the way, just who the hell were you responding to? Bluecat was listing specific problems with the Bush administration and how they are botching "the war on terrorism" by using it to advance their own agendas, she wasn't "calling America the bad guys", and as far as I'm concerned the bush administration is only 2nd to the terrorists in the degree of threat they pose to America.

[amsterdam]

What you think its a good idea for countries invade other countries in order to get resources they dont own? (Not that thats why i think we went to war in Iraq.)Grow some frontal lobes. Your just damn lucky you live in america. Many wars are started over resources, and you and I are lucky we wern't born into that situation. Its real easy to act like a big man when your sittin behind our oversized military, but when your just some average joe in a weak country thats being exploited for its resources (or monetary and or political gains), or when you're just caught up in a war that you never wanted any part of, then you begin to see things a little differently.

Tell me what you think we have accomplished or will accomplish in Iraq, you said yourself our gas prices arn't going down, so what the fuck are we in this for? Lets look at the reasons why we went to war in Iraq; oops, was their a legitimate reason?. Apparently we have no clear answer to this question. The official story from the bush administration has been changed about 4 times! Countries should have a damn good reason to invade other countries, and ours didn't have one.



Of course we lost troops, thats what happens in wars. (And it would happen with or without the incidents at guantanamo bay, but dont think i didn't notice how you conveniently left those incidents out or your little speech about how good their prison food is.) Still think it was such a great idea to go to war in Iraq?
Well thats on you.

The only thing we've accomplished in Iraq was to rally support for new terrorists and bring old terrorists together.

Closemindedness is the fucking disease.

And by the way, just who the hell were you responding to? Bluecat was listing specific problems with the Bush administration and how they are botching "the war on terrorism" by using it to advance their own agendas, she wasn't "calling America the bad guys", and as far as I'm concerned the bush administration is only 2nd to the terrorists in the degree of threat they pose to America.


what about the new constitution with the sunni involvement?you said that would never happen.

what about the 8 and a half million people who risked their lives to vote in a democratic election?they said that would never happen.

more schools are open now.

their oil production is higher than before the war.

i am betting iraq will be one of the richest,most successful democracies in the middle east in 20 years.

i bet iran falls in 15.,

your gonna be on the wrong side of history.get your dinars now kiddies.

[Psycho4Bud]

I got mine....5 million Dinar and counting! :D

[amsterdam]

i picked up about 2 million a month ago.

aint capitalism great.

[Psycho4Bud]

i picked up about 2 million a month ago.

aint capitalism great.

What style notes did you get. I diversified my investment, mainly 25,000 notes but I have the full spectrum down to the 50s. :D Have a Happy Dinar Day! (A little saying we have at work)

[amsterdam]

all 25,000's

[BlueCat]

Here are the approval ratings for presidents as recorded by Gallup (all for March):

Truman, 1949: 57%.

Eisenhower, 1957: 65%.

Johnson, 1965: 69%.

Nixon, 1973: 57%.

Reagan, 1985: 56%.

Clinton, 1997: 59% .

Bush, 2005: 45% .


so 55% of Americans disapprove of Bush... America for the people, by the people...dissent is growing.... :D He will go down as the worst president in history!

[amsterdam]

yea right,and after the constitution is signed in Iraq next month it will go right back up.thats the way it works oh smart one.

the New York Post did a poll last year and Clinton was above Hitler as worst leaders ever.only Pol Pot the worthless commie was higher.

[BlueCat]

yea right,and after the constitution is signed in Iraq next month it will go right back up.thats the way it works oh smart one.

the New York Post did a poll last year and Clinton was above Hitler as worst leaders ever.only Pol Pot the worthless commie was higher.

it is amazing how Bush says he does not pay attention to the polls when they are against him but when they are in his favor he quotes them... :rolleyes:

"after the constitution is signed in Iraq next month it will go right back up."
I am going to remind you of this comment... :D

[amsterdam]

polls?i would have thought you were taught a lesson about polls last year.

take a picture of that comment.even that old arab DURBIN is singing a different tune after going to iraq?

whatever happened to all those dems who were singing about gitmo?oh,thats right,they went to see it and changed their minds after seeing that the terrorists ate better than they did.gitmo lost its 5 star rating but whatever.

[BlueCat]

Take a picture?! hahahaha how old are you again Hamster?

[pisshead]

a fake terror alert would help blueblood bush's approval ratings too...

or perhaps another staged terror attack that no one could ever foresee...

[XTC]

a fake terror alert would help blueblood bush's approval ratings too...

or perhaps another staged terror attack that no one could ever foresee...


Former Homeland Secuirty Bigshot(Forgot his name) admitted they used the Terror Alerts Politically. Red Alert, OH SHIT! What do I do? Buy A sweater and some ducktape!?!

[pisshead]

lord ridge i believe you're thinking of...

yeah, we're supposed to believe the terror alerts at the time...and then just accept it when it comes out later that they were fake or years old...then we continue to believe the next terror alert and so on...

it's been effective and probably will be for a little while...but eventually the feds are going to have to have another terror attack to advance their military dictatorship.

[Edgar]

what about the new constitution with the sunni involvement?you said that would never happen.

what about the 8 and a half million people who risked their lives to vote in a democratic election?they said that would never happen.

more schools are open now.

their oil production is higher than before the war.

i am betting iraq will be one of the richest,most successful democracies in the middle east in 20 years.

i bet iran falls in 15.,

your gonna be on the wrong side of history.get your dinars now kiddies.

Yeah well we'll see about that. I didn't give a damn about the Iraqi people, (I say leave it to them if they want a revolution.) and I'm pretty sure you didn't either. I damn sure know Bush never did. So what if they get their democracy, (Which will really be more of a theocracy) the fact of the matter is, we blew all our revenue and sent our own economy into the dirt over this dirt ball country. Not to mention the waste of American and innocent Iraqi lives. We already had Iraq contained after the gulf war.


We never should have gotten involved, not in the past and not now. Lets take a look at history right now, lets look at our fond memories of the shah in Iran, the same Shah that we helped to reclaim the seat power after helping to destroy the DEMOCRACY that they had established in his absence. Then lets look at how we sold weapons to Iraq (some of which they ended up using on us later.) and encouraged them to attack Iran. Wow can you believe how foolish we've been all along? First we helped that brutal murderous dictator back into power, then after the people of Iran started to revolt we backed Iraq in a war against Iran in order to put down the revolution. I think this clearly shows what a curse our influence in the middleast has been, and if not there is plenty more history to back up that claim. So now Iran is our enemy, what a supprise.

Yeah i went pretty far back in that little recap of some of our history with those 2 countries, but thats just to show what historically happens when we get involved, there are plenty more examples of our foolish support of dictators and war criminals in order to exploit a situtation. We had no moral highground when we invaded, and saying it was to create democracy was a joke.



what about the new constitution with the sunni involvement?you said that would never happen.

Nope i didn't say that.

[Stedric]

This isn't a laughing matter guys. A gay terrorist threat could put us under mauve alert. That's almost as bad as a teal alert!!!

[Torog]

Howdy Blue Cat,

Well..I had a nice long reply to you yesterday..but when I went to post it,I forgot to copy it,in case I timed out..dang it !

So..I'll try again,with a shorter version.

First off..I'm glad that you're back,and I hope that your health improves.

I don't particularily care for you bringing my daughter into this argument and try to use her against me. I'll be the first,to admit that I'm somewhat of a narrow-minded feller,I realize that. My daughter has helped me to be less narrow-minded and more tolerant,towards others infected with amoral relativism.

As for Planned Parenthood,they have an agenda to promote and I don't trust their facts. It has been proven,time and time again,that PP aids and abetts,sexual activity and sexual abuse,at the hands of adults towards under-age girls. Since they've been completely compromised with liberals,PP is now a harmful influence,not a constructive one..and is a promoter of the culture of death.

Dang it ! I gotta go..we got a bad storm here and I'm running on battery back-up ..I will be back !

Have a good one ....

[BlueCat]

Torog...
You bring my son into many of your posts... You comment on my lack of moral values and boast on the superiority of you and yours....I do research....If you don't want me researching that so called perfect life of yours then don't link to it on your profile page....

BTW I think it was very rude and self centered of you to hi jack the Brits thread about the attack in London....They are upset and need to vent....you can post your views on the political thread.....

Attacking Button Basher was uncalled for....

There is a time and a place for everything....

For someone who claims to be breeming with Christian values.....Your lack of compassion is not at all Christ like.
Do you ever consider the feelings of anyone other than yourself?

[amsterdam]

i love the feelings garbage.

what we need is lawyers and hugs right bluecat.funny as hell.

[BlueCat]

One only has to look at your avatar to see how warped you are Hamster...go play in traffic...

[amsterdam]

its a avatar?so what.such a sensitive little thing you are.how about a hug.

[Button Basher]

Attacking Button Basher was uncalled for....

Appreciated, but I found it kinda funny :) . "STOP TALKING AND PICK UP A GUN YOU NAIVE YOUNGUN". I just wanna make music for fucks sake :p .

What Torog doesn't get is that we're not all Texans living in our shacks, hugging our shotguns, waving our flags and loving our whisky. I try to humour him for who he is and like most people on this site, admire his perseverance and (despite a total absence of cultural tolerance/awareness) respect for certain values. If everyone gave THAT much of a shit about national security, we'd all be itching to leave home at 17 and join the army. Unfortunately for him and others that share that narrow-mindedness, not everyone wants to kill for a living, particularly in this day and age when our special forces, etc are only used for political gain and saving face.

Peace is the act of accepting one another and getting along, something we as humans are incapable of (but hey, kudos to those of us that do our best aye? :D ) Try not to let these fools get to you Blue Cat. The fact is every post you make demonstrates a keen and broad political mind and an acceptance and compassion for others and their personal views. Something a certain few on this board would get a migraine from trying. :cool:

[BlueCat]

Thank you so much Button that means a lot to me :o and your desciption of Torog is just perfect :D

[Torog]

Torog...
You bring my son into many of your posts... You comment on my lack of moral values and boast on the superiority of you and yours....I do research....If you don't want me researching that so called perfect life of yours then don't link to it on your profile page....

BTW I think it was very rude and self centered of you to hi jack the Brits thread about the attack in London....They are upset and need to vent....you can post your views on the political thread.....

Attacking Button Basher was uncalled for....

There is a time and a place for everything....

For someone who claims to be breeming with Christian values.....Your lack of compassion is not at all Christ like.
Do you ever consider the feelings of anyone other than yourself?
Howdy Blue Cat,

I was upset,that you provided a link to my daughter's site in your reply..but,you're right, I shouldn't bring your son into this fray,either.

You're also right about the thread in the General forum,I had no business saying what I did and I apologize to you and BB,as well as everyone else.

I do consider other folk's feeling's,but not nearly enough..I should be more compassionate and tolerant..shame on me ! I've been feeling bad about it,since yesterday.

I simply don't have much time to do research,on anything..my back gives out after a couple hours or so and I have to go and lay down to ease the pain,I hope and pray,that your health improves.

Have a good one....

[Torog]

Appreciated, but I found it kinda funny :) . "STOP TALKING AND PICK UP A GUN YOU NAIVE YOUNGUN". I just wanna make music for f*cks sake :p .

What Torog doesn't get is that we're not all Texans living in our shacks, hugging our shotguns, waving our flags and loving our whisky. I try to humour him for who he is and like most people on this site, admire his perseverance and (despite a total absence of cultural tolerance/awareness) respect for certain values. If everyone gave THAT much of a shit about national security, we'd all be itching to leave home at 17 and join the army. Unfortunately for him and others that share that narrow-mindedness, not everyone wants to kill for a living, particularly in this day and age when our special forces, etc are only used for political gain and saving face.

Peace is the act of accepting one another and getting along, something we as humans are incapable of (but hey, kudos to those of us that do our best aye? :D ) Try not to let these fools get to you Blue Cat. The fact is every post you make demonstrates a keen and broad political mind and an acceptance and compassion for others and their personal views. Something a certain few on this board would get a migraine from trying. :cool:
Howdy BB,

I want to apologize for my attack on you yesterday,it was wrong and un-called for-I don't know what I was thinking..I reckon,that I wasn't..I'm sorry about that.

I would like to point out tho,I rarely drink whiskey anymore and I mostly drink beer,to keep my bowels regular and ease my back-pain and muscle spasms,even then..I don't drink very often.

As for folks joining at 17,I did and was glad of it,I think that all younguns should serve a couple years or so,in the military..it would help them understand,that they can't always take from their country,but that they should be citizen/soldiers..and give back to their communities and their nation,and to understand..that Freedom is not handed out on a silver platter..that it must quite often be defended .

Have a good one ....

[Button Basher]

No problem Torog. I was out of line slamming the US for the attacks in London yesterday. We're supposed to be allies, I should've remembered that at such a time. :o

No worries.

[Torog]

No problem Torog. I was out of line slamming the US for the attacks in London yesterday. We're supposed to be allies, I should've remembered that at such a time. :o

No worries.
Howdy BB,

Well thanx for your understanding,but I feel that I was worse,like Blue Cat said..you have more than earned the right,to vent about anything you want..and I'll try and be cool. :)

Have a good one !

[BlueCat]

Sorry for being hard on you Torog.....friends? :D

We'll just leave our rugrats out of our debates.... :p

I understand back pain, it has made me grouchy more times than I would like to remember....hope you feel better soon...

Cat

[nicholasstanko]

I can't fucking stand how AMERICANS are calling AMERICA the bad guys when we let these fucking guantanamo bay terrorists pray, eat BETTER FOOD THAN OUR SOLDIERS, and live a POW's life!!!!

AL QUIDA TOOK OUR MEN, AND CUT THEIR FUCKING HEAD OFF, VIDEO TAPED IT, AND LET EVERYONE SEE IT.

Libreralism is a FUCKING DISEASE. People need to grow some fucking balls.

And if the war was for oil, then why are our gas prices so goddamn high? And even if it WAS for oil, WHY WOULD YOU BE COMPLAINING!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? *OUR* COUNTRY IS GETTING THE OIL, NOT FRANCE OR SOMETHING.

HOW CAN THESE PEOPLE BE SO BLATANTLY BRAINWASHED BY THE MEDIA?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

GROW. SOME. BALLS.

Man, reading that it's apparent you dont know anything worth posting and judging from your avatar you strike me as some pathetic heavy metal dont-care-about-the-great-life-i-havester



AMERICA the bad guys when we let these fucking guantanamo bay terrorists pray, eat BETTER FOOD THAN OUR SOLDIERS, and live a POW's life!!!!

Wow! How dare we let the "bad guys" pray! That's downright sick! Quick! More bibles! You really disgust me when you say things like that.



AL QUIDA TOOK OUR MEN, AND CUT THEIR FUCKING HEAD OFF, VIDEO TAPED IT, AND LET EVERYONE SEE IT.

Yeh, Al-Qaeda did that. NOT iraq. NOT saddam. and definitely NOT the iraqi civilians. Grow up man. Get a real job or something. I can imagine you skateboarding around thinking the world hates you and you have so many fucking problems.
And BTW, many language experts and people who actully speak arabic have confirmed that the guy talking during the pearl incident doesnt even have the dialect right. it was obviously a gov. funded operation. and no fuck you im not wasting time searching and posting a link because you seem all about shouting.



And if the war was for oil, then why are our gas prices so goddamn high? And even if it WAS for oil, WHY WOULD YOU BE COMPLAINING!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? *OUR* COUNTRY IS GETTING THE OIL, NOT FRANCE OR SOMETHING.

What kind of fucking statement is that you asshole?! so every greedy and selfish thing thats been done so far is justification for getting oil? i really hope you're poor because we really need less rich people with your mindset. Wake up, kid. Smoking pot is wasted on you.

[amsterdam]

after all the people were crying about gitmo,we sent the usual suspects down there to see for themselves what it was like.havent heard to much since.too funny.

hell,they eat better than i do.

[nicholasstanko]

after all the people were crying about gitmo,we sent the usual suspects down there to see for themselves what it was like.havent heard to much since.too funny.

hell,they eat better than i do.

MMMM...mmmmm....wow good old chicken and a banana with some "juice" to wash it down...now that's livin' good.

And just , think amster....all you'd have to do to get such wonderful meals would be to get arrested with no charges against you (or read for that matter) live in a dirty prison cell and endure taunting and torture by guards

practically all the time! Wow! Those "terrorists" get to do everything fun! Grow up amsterdam, if you think their lives are SOOOOOO much better because they get some rubbery shit then how about you go to your local library and browse through the Bin Laden biographies.

Im sure homeland security will make reservations on your behalf

[amsterdam]

come to think of it,the terrorists have it better than most regular prisoners in the states.go figure.at least a nice view.lol.

they should be happy we dont treat them the way we treated german soldiers caught fighting out of uniform.they were lined up against a wall and shot on the spot.andy rooney has video of that and all should watch.

[BlueCat]

You actually responded to that one? I just could not bring myself to do it....

remember when Bush said...we need to vote for him he can handle the oil companies? lol

I have to kinda agree with guantonimo bay prisoners eating better than our soldiers...That just reflects back to our leadership doesn't it? they are eating better than most the poor people in this country thanks to our wonderful leadership...

[nicholasstanko]

come to think of it,the terrorists have it better than most regular prisoners in the states.go figure.at least a nice view.lol.

they should be happy we dont treat them the way we treated german soldiers caught fighting out of uniform.they were lined up against a wall and shot on the spot.andy rooney has video of that and all should watch.


who's "we"? amsterdam you've shown more than once how much of a pussy you are hiding behind a felony charge as an excuse not to sign up. Well guess what? The brass is really desperate for a few good ex-cons and as long as you can put in a good effort at being able to speak good english then your felony wont count.

You keep saying "we" as if youre part of the solution. You dont want to fight and you dont want to passively resist so what the fuck are you doing except annoying everyone?

Really...what is it?

[amsterdam]

hahaha,i actually spoke with a recruiter at bar downtown about 2 weeks ago.and guess what??being a felon and joining the army and marines is very hard usually dosent happen.so i guess you are wrong.

have you seen the menu at gitmo?orange chicken,kool-aid,lemon chicken.like i said they should be happy we didnt line them up against a wall and shoot them.

anyway,i can assure you those topics are over now and you wont here to many countries complaining after yesterdays tragedy.sad that it takes more murder for the public to remember.watch the approval ratings climb friend.

[nicholasstanko]

hahaha,i actually spoke with a recruiter at bar downtown about 2 weeks ago.and guess what??being a felon and joining the army and marines is very hard usually dosent happen.so i guess you are wrong.

have you seen the menu at gitmo?orange chicken,kool-aid,lemon chicken.like i said they should be happy we didnt line them up against a wall and shoot them.

anyway,i can assure you those topics are over now and you wont here to many countries complaining after yesterdays tragedy.sad that it takes more murder for the public to remember.watch the approval ratings climb friend.

Yeh...USUALLY. you cant worm out. If you really wanted to you'd say "fuck off recruiter rob" and go somewhere else. Head down by lincoln high school and sit around there. Just tell them you're family makes less than 30,000 a year and he'll see to it you get your fatigues.

What's with you and your gitmo menu? I'd gladly eat Top Ramen noodles if it meant that i could keep living with the freedoms i have now. You think just because you see a plate of food being held up that it's whats going on? I'd be eating alot more fast food if it all were as good as advertised.

It's all about approval, right amsterdam. A building gets blwon up people die and approvals rise. What a great standard to live life by amsterdam. we'll see an armed revolt before we see people backing blair to keep up the madness.

[BlueCat]

Hamster,I have 2 friends in the marines that had felony charges....and a friend in the army that just got in...he is 32 years old with an old felony drug charge....YOU SIR ARE A LIAR.....

Hamster is really into shooting things.....you really need to join.

All you need is to get a waiver....it is not hard at all. What is the name of your recruiter? I'll help you......

[nicholasstanko]

Hamster,I have 2 friends in the marines that had felony charges....and a friend in the army that just got in...he is 32 years old with an old felony drug charge....YOU SIR ARE A LIAR.....

Hamster is really into shooting things.....you really need to join.

All you need is to get a waiver....it is not hard at all. What is the name of your recruiter? I'll help you......


dont bother. he's a douche. many a times has my finger hovered over the ignore button when his name was highlighted. i dont do it because i still want his opinion.

[amsterdam]

o.k. whatever you say.

i'm sure some starving artist has great connections in the army.lol.

what is your sons unit number and first name?

[BlueCat]

He is part of the telehealth SMART Team at Landstuhl...you don't need his name...

[nicholasstanko]

o.k. whatever you say.

i'm sure some starving artist has great connections in the army.lol.

what is your sons unit number and first name?

Stop it amsterdam. that's not your business. YOUR business should concern what YOUR unit number would be. Dont you want to defend the freedoms of the country from terrorists?

[amsterdam]

jsut like my felony is not a minor one.i spent about 13 months at the Holiday unit in huntsville texas for possesion with intent and possesion of an illegal firearm.at the time i was also on probation for a minor in possesion and a dwls charge.no regrets though,had a blast as a kid and because of that i did my time with a smile on my face.

[Button Basher]

o.k. whatever you say.

i'm sure some starving artist has great connections in the army.lol.

what is your sons unit number and first name?

Dude, why not just admit you don't wanna join the army and get blown away. You've got a family and a house, etc. I wouldn't wanna join up and get shot after getting that far in life. Just admit the idea doesn't appeal to you (I wouldn't worry about the damage to your board reputation that contradiction might make).

Or perhaps i'm wrong, which i'm obviously not.

[nicholasstanko]

jsut like my felony is not a minor one.i spent about 13 months at the Holiday unit in huntsville texas for possesion with intent and possesion of an illegal firearm.at the time i was also on probation for a minor in possesion and a dwls charge.no regrets though,had a blast as a kid and because of that i did my time with a smile on my face.


alright then. whatever you say.

[amsterdam]

perfect.

[BlueCat]

But Hamster...you said before that you were only a teenager when you got your felony charges...yet you spent 13 months in prison? :confused:

[amsterdam]

17 years old,about 2 months before my 18th.

because i was on probation i went as an adult.we are talking about a state that has an express lane for the execution chamber.

[nicholasstanko]

But Hamster...you said before that you were only a teenager when you got your felony charges...yet you spent 13 months in prison? :confused:


Must be the agent orange. amsterdam was in 'nam too ya know. he wiped out an entire viet cong regiment with a single potato masher...didnt he tell you?

[amsterdam]

i guess it is hard to believe that a highschool dropout,felon,recovering cocaine addict got his shit together went back to school,got married,and got a great job.

aint america great.i love it.thats why i have no patience for bleeding hearts who find an excuse for everything and take responsibility for nothing.anyone who wants to make it here in america can.

[nicholasstanko]

i guess it is hard to believe that a highschool dropout,felon,recovering cocaine addict got his shit together went back to school,got married,and got a great job.

aint america great.i love it.thats why i have no patience for bleeding hearts who find an excuse for everything and take responsibility for nothing.anyone who wants to make it here in america can.

Yes amsterdam you're living the american dream. How about sharing it with others? Bush was all of those things (minus the school thing) too and he's doing a great fucking job.

America is great. So instead of attacking the bleeding hearts who dont want war how about you take responsibility and do the "right" thing the way you think it should be done. sign up and shoot em. it's what god wants right?

[BlueCat]

we are talking about a state that has an express lane for the execution chamber.


and aren't you proud....

The Army WANTS YOU ....Hamster....

[amsterdam]

keep preaching that shit you know nothing about if you want.whatever makes you feel better.

i am against the death penalty.life in prison is worse than death 10 fold.

[BlueCat]

Really? I am suprised...you seem so proud of Texas...they are ruling the world, I beleive that is what you said....well good for you, a spark of intelligence in a dark void.... ;)

[nicholasstanko]

keep preaching that shit you know nothing about if you want.whatever makes you feel better.

i am against the death penalty.life in prison is worse than death 10 fold.

Im glad i "know nothing" about war. im not the one glorifying it, remember? You seem to get off on the idea of shooting people in weaker countries and hiding behind "uncle sam knows best" logic that gets more people killed.

If you'd like i can reference your lack of compassion for both the troops and the fallen citizens of 9/11. I believe your EXACT words in reference to military action as being "let's roll". ring any bells mammagram? Was that funny on your side of reality? Did you think torog and makor and psycho4bud would be rolling around shitting themselves with laughter when they read that? you're not interested in peace and unity and non-lethal actions against those with different stances...you're with jay leno and rush limbaugh.

[pisshead]

are we ruling the world?

george bush is a new haven, CT blueblood with an atlantic accent sometimes. sometimes he struggles with the texas accent.

[amsterdam]

there you go with the intelligence stuff.you just cant help it can you.strange considering my education is superior to yours.like i said,whatever helps you sleep at night.

[nicholasstanko]

there you go with the intelligence stuff.you just cant help it can you.strange considering my education is superior to yours.like i said,whatever helps you sleep at night.

the only intelligence i care about right now is the info pertaining to the least violent route of this war. you dont know my education. did i go to a public or private school? have i been awarded scholarships or not? ive never stated anything about my education credentials.

im not trying to come off as smarter than you. i just want everyone to live without being afraid of some missle hitting tomorrow.

[amsterdam]

the only intelligence i care about right now is the info pertaining to the least violent route of this war. you dont know my education. did i go to a public or private school? have i been awarded scholarships or not? ive never stated anything about my education credentials.

im not trying to come off as smarter than you. i just want everyone to live without being afraid of some missle hitting tomorrow.


sorry,that was not directed at you.

she knows who she is.

[pisshead]

the only intelligence i care about right now is the info pertaining to the least violent route of this war. you dont know my education. did i go to a public or private school? have i been awarded scholarships or not? ive never stated anything about my education credentials.

im not trying to come off as smarter than you. i just want everyone to live without being afraid of some missle hitting tomorrow.
i know people who didn't even go to college who are infinitely more intelligent than hammy, and are making more money than he can imagine.

higher education means nothing.

[amsterdam]

no shit captain obvious.

i am refering to some washed up starving artist whos only argument is join the army or you are a dummy.all that talk about intelligence from her is great.

are those people who didnt go to college but are smart your mom and dad pissy?thats sweet.i guess values to exist.

[BlueCat]

Are you directing the remark at me? How would you know what my education is?

You have yet to say what degree you have...you have only said you went to college..

I have never said anything about your degree or lack off.....school really is a touchy subject for you....having problems Hamster?

[pisshead]

i know, he throws that around like it actually means something.

like i said, i know people infinitely more intelligent and successful than hammy, and they didn't go to college.

[BlueCat]

no shit captain obvious.

i am refering to some washed up starving artist whos only argument is join the army or you are a dummy.all that talk about intelligence from her is great.

are those people who didnt go to college but are smart your mom and dad pissy?thats sweet.i guess values to exist.


I really can't make sense of this.....my my we are sensitive today..lol

I have given many a valid argument.....to bad you can't read....oh and I'm not starving....thank you for your concern. :D

[amsterdam]

this is just a play world for me.why anyone would give a shit what anyone says in a internet chatroom is beyond me.

you need any money.let me know.perhaps my in-laws would buy a painting.

[BlueCat]

OK Hamster.....how about that degree....you brought it up...so whats your degree Hamster? Spinning in circles 101?

You like guns right Hamster? What do you think of the new national ID card? Maybe you could stop playing long enough to research that one...

[pisshead]

he's too busy chasing secret al-qaeda websites and fat bin laden tapes that claim responsibility for attacks.

[amsterdam]

OK Hamster.....how about that degree....you brought it up...so whats your degree Hamster? Spinning in circles 101?

You like guns right Hamster? What do you think of the new national ID card? Maybe you could stop playing long enough to research that one...


marketing/advertising plain and simple.nothing fancy.

spinning in circles sounds alot better than the classes i had to sit through,but it paid off big time.

[nicholasstanko]

I really can't make sense of this.....my my we are sensitive today..lol

I have given many a valid argument.....to bad you can't read....oh and I'm not starving....thank you for your concern. :D

i am. i had a blunt at 5 am while watching the "news". i didnt eat breakfast and now ive got some crazy munchies.

[BlueCat]

lol go eat for goodness sake...you need to keep up your strength and stay on your toes around here... :D

[amsterdam]

order some Thai delivery,i love that shit when i am high.

[nicholasstanko]

order some Thai delivery,i love that shit when i am high.

I'm gonna grab some quiznos....mmmm...toasty...


but we gotta stop hi-jacking the thread though.

[amsterdam]

fuck that sounds good!!

i'm done hi-jacking.