Limits of Dissent

[Torog]

The Limits of Dissent
By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 http://billoreilly.com/currentarticle



No country can win a conflict the way the USA is fighting the war on terror. Every move the Bush administration makes is scrutinized, criticized and roundly chastised by dissenters who firmly believe the President, himself, is responsible for much of the anti-American hatred around the world. The chorus is deafening. Bush "lied" about Iraq. Bush is violating civil liberties by supporting the Patriot Act. The President sanctions torture and is a major human rights violator. Every day there is another page one story telling Americans we are the bad guys.
The dissenters claim that what they're doing is patriotic, that they love America and just want to improve it. They claim that loyal dissent is one of the finest traditions of democracy.

But there is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war, which is clearly what some Americans are doing. Senator Richard Durbin's recent comments comparing a few rough interrogations at Guantanamo Bay to what the Soviets and Nazis did was number one with a bullet on Al Jazeera. That anti-American network couldn't get enough of Dick Durbin. For days his opinion echoed through the Arab world, inflaming even more hatred toward the USA.

Like Jane Fonda, Durbin claimed he was just trying to stop an immoral policy. But that argument is hollow in the face of the facts. More than 68,000 interrogations have taken place since 9/11 and the alleged abuses number in the hundreds. The Pentagon says it is actively prosecuting valid cases of abuse and, in a time of war, it might be wise to give the U.S. military the benefit of the doubt.

During World War II, widely considered the last "good" war, there was tight government control of information. No pictures of dead American soldiers were released to the public until 1943, two years after the conflict began. The Office of War Information made it quite clear to the press that any intentional undermining of the conflict would be punished. Even Hollywood scripts and newsreels were vetted. The U.S. government strictly censored what Americans saw and heard about the war, even where atrocities were concerned.

After German SS troops massacred 86 American soldiers at Malmedy in Belgium on December 17th, 1944, some units like the US 11th Armored Division took revenge on captured German soldiers. In the Pacific, relatively few Japanese prisoners were taken in the brutal island fights. But the folks back home never heard about those things or what techniques were used to interrogate prisoners who might know where the next ambush would be. The American military did what they had to do in order to win. As General Patton once said to his army: "I do not advocate standing Germans up against the wall and shooting them ... so shoot the sons of bitches before you get them to the wall."

George Patton would not be allowed to serve in combat today. The New York Times would make sure of that. The International Red Cross would be all over Patton and his aggressive Third Army. Dick Durbin would be appalled. But it is Patton that we need right now to defeat the barbarians who would kill all of us in the name of Allah. The "human rights" people really have no clue. The war on terror is the ultimate war. If Al Qaeda gets nuclear weapons, those people will use them.

It is true that the United States must stand above the Huns. We must not stoop to torturing detainees or committing battlefield atrocities. But mistakes happen in all wars and we are now fighting an invisible enemy. They wear no uniforms, they obey no rules of engagement.

It is time for Americans to decide exactly who is looking out for them. The government and military, which is trying to defeat vicious killers, or those who are on a jihad to undermine the war on terror in the name of patriotism? The battle lines are clearly drawn. Which side are you on?

Torog Reviewed by Torog on 06-29-2005. Limits of Dissent The Limits of Dissent By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 http://billoreilly.com/currentarticle No country can win a conflict the way the USA is fighting the war on terror. Every move the Bush administration makes is scrutinized, criticized and roundly chastised by dissenters who firmly believe the President, himself, is responsible for much of the anti-American hatred around the world. The chorus is deafening. Bush "lied" about Iraq. Bush is violating civil Rating: 5

[F L E S H]

There's American democracy for you: if you disagree, you're unpatriotic and anti-American. Thank god for freedom of speech or I might have been worried for a while...

[XTC]

Ya, if only the Iraqi war was about "Spreading Democracy". You have a big oil Vice President with a Big Oil Commander in Cheif(With a Big Oil Daddy). Also, Rice used to have a oil Liner named after her in her big oil days. You also have two wars in Big Oils Nations. The new leader of Afganistan is also a Big oil Guru. I know it's all innocent coindence.

[Psycho4Bud]

Ya, if only the Iraqi war was about "Spreading Democracy". You have a big oil Vice President with a Big Oil Commander in Cheif(With a Big Oil Daddy). Also, Rice used to have a oil Liner named after her in her big oil days. You also have two wars in Big Oils Nations. The new leader of Afganistan is also a Big oil Guru. I know it's all innocent coindence.

Afghanistan a "big oil nation"? Maybe hash oil!

[bhallg2k]

Hey, thanks. I needed a good reminder of how big an idiot Bill O'Reilly is.

[BlueCat]

Hey Torog...how are you? I Thought since you seem to avoid actually answering questions and giving solutions I would ask them directly....

Oh and BTW you stated on another thread that you bring out the worst in me....

On the contrary Torog....You bring out the best...I love political debate. You keep me on my toes.

And vernacular speech does not make me any less a lady.....that's those White Christian bare foot and pregnant values hindering your judgment.....
And you know us Army brats have to give the pantie waist Navy boys a hard time...it can't be help.
Now if you could take a few moments from your O'lielly worship...to answer a few questions..
.
There is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war. REMEMBER this dissent is NOT ON THE WAR ON TERROR but rather in the president's handling of it.

Unless you are completely illiterate when it comes too history you can't possibly think our government has NEVER been at fault...so just how long should politically correct silence last?

Where do you draw the line on descent? Should we all be quiet little comrades and do as we are told?
Would you complain about anything the present Administration does? ever?

When do you feel disagreement becomes harmful?
Where does your line between honest dissent and destructive undermining begin? You complain constantly about dissent.. so you must believe that we should all be rank and file mindless automatons....if not then answer my questions..

We cannot allow democracy to be destroyed based on the words of a few who believe dissent is UN American or treasonous, when the opposite is more true. IF the president makes moves we think are wrong, he should hear about it...

IF the president NEVER hears about dissent, then he will think he is doing just fine and he isn't in my opinion and obviously the majority of America now.

The fact is where there were no terrorists we now have thousands. Where the world once regarded us as the best we are now regarded suspiciously as having ulterior motives. IF we are so concerned about stopping terrorism then why haven't we invaded countries that we actually provably know are supporting terrorism like Saudi Arabia? Most the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi...why hasn't your hero gone after them?

IF we are so concerned about human rights, dignity and democracy, why aren't we in The Sudan saving the thousands who are being murdered as we speak, OR in Zimbabwe where genocide is being carried out as we write? Why are we selling out to and dealing with China a known communist country with huge anti Christian and human rights violations?

WHY NOTHING?
Afghanistan was A GREAT TARGET and very few people objected to it. (but Bush pulled troops out on Afghanistan do you not see this as a lapse in judgement?) The world has realized the Iraq war was not a necessity.... as did millions of Americans. Think about this.... The world which was on our side after 9/11 and in going to Afghanistan mounted the single greatest protest in the history of the world about Iraq.


Is the rest of the WORLD wrong Torog or do they just not matter?

looking forward to your reply..
Cat

[Fengzi]

There's American democracy for you: if you disagree, you're unpatriotic and anti-American. Thank god for freedom of speech or I might have been worried for a while...

Yep, you a good American only if you agree with Torog and good ol' G Dubya. Everyone else is a terrorist.

"The way the USA is fighting the war on terror" what a joke. The problem is that Bush is using "the war on terror" to further his own agenda. I, like most people, had no problem with going after Al Queada and the Taliban. Even countries that are usually against our foriegn policy didn't have a problem with it. They had directly attacked the U.S and our response was justified.

Going after Saddam and Iraq is another story, however. Bush wanted this, period. Long before 9/11 Bush wanted to teach Iraq a lesson. Whether it was for oil, to finish what his father started, to get back at Saddam for the assasination attempt on his father, or whatever, he WANTED to go to war with Iraq. 9/11 and the war on terror was just a convenient excuse.

The ironic thing was that going into Iraq only made the situation worse. Not only did we change focus from Afghanistan where it should be but we just pissed the terrorists off giveng them more reason to attack us. Plus we gave them more tools to recruit those borderline, not quite ready for the jihad yet, Muslims. The surest way to get stung is to stir up the hornets nest.

In my opinion Bush is clearly deserving of any criticism he gets. He is already out of control. At least the criticism will hopefully make his keepers think twice before agreeing to everything he wants. Can you imagine what he could be capable of if everyone just shut their mouth and agreed with him?

[Torog]

Hey Torog...how are you? I Thought since you seem to avoid actually answering questions and giving solutions I would ask them directly....

Oh and BTW you stated on another thread that you bring out the worst in me....

On the contrary Torog....You bring out the best...I love political debate. You keep me on my toes.

And vernacular speech does not make me any less a lady.....that's those White Christian bare foot and pregnant values hindering your judgment.....
And you know us Army brats have to give the pantie waist Navy boys a hard time...it can't be help.
Now if you could take a few moments from your O'lielly worship...to answer a few questions..
.
There is a difference between dissenting from a war and trying to undermine a war. REMEMBER this dissent is NOT ON THE WAR ON TERROR but rather in the president's handling of it.

Unless you are completely illiterate when it comes too history you can't possibly think our government has NEVER been at fault...so just how long should politically correct silence last?

Where do you draw the line on descent? Should we all be quiet little comrades and do as we are told?
Would you complain about anything the present Administration does? ever?

When do you feel disagreement becomes harmful?
Where does your line between honest dissent and destructive undermining begin? You complain constantly about dissent.. so you must believe that we should all be rank and file mindless automatons....if not then answer my questions..

We cannot allow democracy to be destroyed based on the words of a few who believe dissent is UN American or treasonous, when the opposite is more true. IF the president makes moves we think are wrong, he should hear about it...

IF the president NEVER hears about dissent, then he will think he is doing just fine and he isn't in my opinion and obviously the majority of America now.

The fact is where there were no terrorists we now have thousands. Where the world once regarded us as the best we are now regarded suspiciously as having ulterior motives. IF we are so concerned about stopping terrorism then why haven't we invaded countries that we actually provably know are supporting terrorism like Saudi Arabia? Most the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi...why hasn't your hero gone after them?

IF we are so concerned about human rights, dignity and democracy, why aren't we in The Sudan saving the thousands who are being murdered as we speak, OR in Zimbabwe where genocide is being carried out as we write? Why are we selling out to and dealing with China a known communist country with huge anti Christian and human rights violations?

WHY NOTHING?
Afghanistan was A GREAT TARGET and very few people objected to it. (but Bush pulled troops out on Afghanistan do you not see this as a lapse in judgement?) The world has realized the Iraq war was not a necessity.... as did millions of Americans. Think about this.... The world which was on our side after 9/11 and in going to Afghanistan mounted the single greatest protest in the history of the world about Iraq.


Is the rest of the WORLD wrong Torog or do they just not matter?

looking forward to your reply..
Cat

Howdy Blue Cat,

Well..where I'm from,women are to be treated with the respect,that a lady deserves..but by the same token,women are expected to act like ladies..it's but one aspect of the Cultural war,here in America. On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults. On my side--everything begins with a good character,humility before our Creator and gratefulness for our many blessings.

You say that your dissent is not on the war on terror,but rather,the president's handling of such..I take it then,that you do realize that the terrorists must be stopped ? Is your solution,appeasement and surrender ? The terrorists have no just cause..there is no legitimacey to brutal oppression..yet you seem to think that there is..if it means bringing down Bush and those whom you despise.

I have never said that our goverment has never made any mistakes..we are only human and therefore,prone to making mistakes..you hold America,to a much higher standard,than anyone else..you expect us to be perfect and when we ain't..it proves your point,and you react by supporting the terrorists against your own country.

I draw the line on dissent,when it becomes violent and gives aid and comfort,to the enemy..do you really believe that you have the right to burn down someone's home,because you hate Bush ? Or someone's business ? Do you believe that the 'dissent' from the Rodney King fiasco,was justified ? That blacks had the right to 'dissent',by dragging a white man from his tractor-trailer rig-and crush his skull with concrete chunks ?

I do complain about Bush,especially in regards to the border issue..in fact,I want him to be embarrassed over it. I don't expect nor do I want,there to be no dissent,I agree that the president of any admin,needs to know how the people feel.

As for creating terrorists,where there were none..that's a good thing,it brings out of the woodwork,the enemies of Freedom..it's our duty-to vanquish them all. Those that decide to become terrorists,also desire to sieze power and rule brutally..we don't want them around..do we ? You act like, and those who share your beliefs,that some humans have the 'right' to rule brutally and that it's a part of their 'culture'..so therefore,we should not interferre with their plans of brutal oppression.

Suadia Arabia,will git it's come-uppins..but because they provide oil for so much of the world,strategically,we cannot disrupt the economies of every country that relies on Saudi oil..including our own. I think that a large part of your opposition,and that of your fellow comrades,is that y'all have very little understanding of military strategy and warfare. The middle-east,needs democracy and stability..and if it be God's Will..it will happen. However,God has already said that there will be Armegeddon,becuase the arab muslims,which you appear to proudly support,will finally be emboldened enough by the support of the Left,that they will attack Israel again.

The reason we ain't in the Sudan or Zimbabwe,is because of 2 reasons..an act of war,was committed against America,and we are in the process of reacting to that..and the other reason is,is because your beloved UN,is preventing us from going there.

As for Afghanistan,again,you're not understanding the strategic implications,in order to support the leadership..we had to back off and let them handle things more directly,because afghani's would percieve it as a violation of their sovereignity and because we need arab-muslims to show to other arab muslims,that there is something wrong and illegitimate,about the Jihad.

Iraq,was an excellent place to start the stabilization of the middle-east and to prevent any further efforts by saddam and sons,to further erode stability. It places us next door to those countries,who pose the greatest threat to the region and to the security of Israel. If the rest of the world,opposes the spread of democracy and freedom-then Yes..they are wrong..jihadists and commies,will not deviate from their bloody goals..unless someone is there to stop em dead in their tracks.

Have a good one...

[BlueCat]

WTF? "On your side,decency and good character,are viewed as handicapping faults."

How can you make a statement like this? Do you personally know everyone on "my side" as you call it?

I have to go back in the hospital for a bone marrow screen but I will be back early next week and I will respond to your post.......
Have a safe 4th.....

Cat.....

[NowhereMan]

Hey, thanks. I needed a good reminder of how big an idiot Bill O'Reilly is.

u owe me one toke i lost luaghing my ass off
naa nevermind it was worth it

here is a thought
funny how a grian a truth can fester into some pile of crap