Navajo's Override Gay-Marriage Ban Veto

[Torog]

Navajos Override Gay-Marriage Ban Veto
June 04, 2005 3:51 AM EDT
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The Navajo Nation's tribal government voted Friday to override its president's veto of a measure banning same-sex marriage on the nation's largest Indian reservation.

The Dine Marriage Act of 2005 defines marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman. It also prohibits plural marriages as well as marriage between parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, brothers and sisters and other close relatives.

Dine is the Navajos' name for themselves.

"In the traditional Navajo ways, gay marriage is a big no-no," said Kenneth Maryboy, a delegate from Montezuma Creek, Utah. "It all boils down to the circle of life. We were put on the earth to produce offspring."

The Tribal Council vote was 62-14, with 12 delegates abstaining or absent, to override Navajo President Joe Shirley Jr.'s veto last month.

"My feeling is that the reason they overrode the president's veto is that they have a huge animosity toward the president," said Percy Anderson, a gay rights organizer who started a Web site and petition to lobby against the marriage act.

Anderson, who previously held an elected office in the tribe's Manuelito, N.M., chapter, said he believes the council is locked in a power struggle. "They want to show the president that they are the governing body," Anderson said.

Maryboy disagreed, saying his constituents overwhelming oppose gay marriage and generally disapprove of gay relationships.

"My supporters told me to stay firmly against it, especially the ministers who join people in marriage," he said.

A spokesman for Shirley said he will issue a statement override over the weekend.

Delegate Larry Anderson of Fort Defiance, Ariz., author of the Dine Marriage Act, did not return numerous phone calls seeking comment.

The Navajo Nation, which has more than 180,000 residents, spans parts of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Same-sex marriages are not allowed in any of those states.

[XTC]

Kinda off topic about the whole Navajo topic, but I hate when people say why should homosexuals have "special" rights. hmmm Hello? their human just like you and I,they deserve every damn right we have. Torog man, I respect you and all, you seem like a cool guy, but all I have to say is, some people are blinded by their faith. If you're faith based and prejudice, then you're okay in society's eye. That whole thing about gays have an agenda to push on children and society is just lunacy.
Homophobics aren't alright, if learn to love, then you might love life is all I have to say.

[Stedric]

The circle of life?! Haha! I don't think the circle of life stopped them from running entire herds of buffalo off of a cliff.

It amazes me that some people actually think the mysteries of existence all boil down to procreation. Can't have oversimplification without simple, I guess.

Peace love and understanding.

[pisshead]

i would agree. equal rights, not special rights.

and how about it's none of the government's business who marries who...having a license to get married is just ludicrous...it has nothing to do with the government.

[Stedric]

i would agree. equal rights, not special rights.

and how about it's none of the government's business who marries who...having a license to get married is just ludicrous...it has nothing to do with the government.
Depends on your definition of "special" rights. I keep hearing all this bullshit about hate crime laws being hypocritical. In an ideal world, people would never be the targeted for violent crime because of their sexual orientation. But you and I both know this is far from a perfect world, so special measures need to be taken to protect our minority groups.

Marriage has been abused by heterosexuals for years, I don't see why we can't give homosexuals the same right to commit adultery, spousal abuse, and divorce as they see fit.

[Torog]

Kinda off topic about the whole Navajo topic, but I hate when people say why should homosexuals have "special" rights. hmmm Hello? their human just like you and I,they deserve every damn right we have. Torog man, I respect you and all, you seem like a cool guy, but all I have to say is, some people are blinded by their faith. If you're faith based and prejudice, then you're okay in society's eye. That whole thing about gays have an agenda to push on children and society is just lunacy.
Homophobics aren't alright, if learn to love, then you might love life is all I have to say.
Howdy XTC,

I thought that it was intersting,that the Navajo folk,rose up and over-rode a politically-correct decision,by an obviously liberal,'politician'. I believe in basic equal rights for gays,but I don't think that they should be able to marry,marriage traditionally calls for God's Blessing..and God will not bless such an abomination. You say that society okays a faith-based prejudice,but I say,that just the opposite is true,being a person of faith,usually results in being scorned and reviled..by today's liberal society.

For the millionth time..I do not fear gays,I view them as sinners..opposing their agenda,doesn't make me afraid of them..and they do have an agenda,they want equal rights,special rights and to destroy any faith-based rejection of homosexuality,as the sin that it is. Just because I oppose terrorism,doesn't make me afraid of terrorists,if anything..they should fear me.

I'm not blinded by my faith,my faith,makes me see clearer..I can 'see' evil,where you can't or refuse to see,because I don't make compromises with evil acts and behaviour..like amoral relativists.

I wonder,when the gays have finally secured all of their 'rights',and NAMBLA steps forward and begins lobbying for age of consent reductions..will you support them as well ? The members of NAMBLA,believe that it's their right,to have sexual relations with young boys..and if they are lobbying for a 'right',then they should have it-by golly ! NOT !!

Have a good one...

[Torog]

Depends on your definition of "special" rights. I keep hearing all this bullshit about hate crime laws being hypocritical. In an ideal world, people would never be the targeted for violent crime because of their sexual orientation. But you and I both know this is far from a perfect world, so special measures need to be taken to protect our minority groups.

Marriage has been abused by heterosexuals for years, I don't see why we can't give homosexuals the same right to commit adultery, spousal abuse, and divorce as they see fit.
Howdy Stedric,

One 'special right',that activist gays want,and have pretty much already been given..is the 'right' to go into public schools and step between parents and their children,in order to keep children of faith,from being intolerant of gays. They and their supporters,believe that it's their 'right',to 'de-program' a child raised to believe that homosexuality,is a sin. In so doing,they are denying children and their parents,the freedom of religion..and folks of Faith,are still in the majority..despite the best efforts of amoral relativists,the Left,secular humanists and anti-God and anti-religionists.

Have a good one....

[Marlboroman]

Navajos Override Gay-Marriage Ban Veto
June 04, 2005 3:51 AM EDT
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The Navajo Nation's tribal government voted Friday to override its president's veto of a measure banning same-sex marriage on the nation's largest Indian reservation.

The Dine Marriage Act of 2005 defines marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman. It also prohibits plural marriages as well as marriage between parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, brothers and sisters and other close relatives.

Dine is the Navajos' name for themselves.

"In the traditional Navajo ways, gay marriage is a big no-no," said Kenneth Maryboy, a delegate from Montezuma Creek, Utah. "It all boils down to the circle of life. We were put on the earth to produce offspring."

The Tribal Council vote was 62-14, with 12 delegates abstaining or absent, to override Navajo President Joe Shirley Jr.'s veto last month.

"My feeling is that the reason they overrode the president's veto is that they have a huge animosity toward the president," said Percy Anderson, a gay rights organizer who started a Web site and petition to lobby against the marriage act.

Anderson, who previously held an elected office in the tribe's Manuelito, N.M., chapter, said he believes the council is locked in a power struggle. "They want to show the president that they are the governing body," Anderson said.

Maryboy disagreed, saying his constituents overwhelming oppose gay marriage and generally disapprove of gay relationships.

"My supporters told me to stay firmly against it, especially the ministers who join people in marriage," he said.

A spokesman for Shirley said he will issue a statement override over the weekend.

Delegate Larry Anderson of Fort Defiance, Ariz., author of the Dine Marriage Act, did not return numerous phone calls seeking comment.

The Navajo Nation, which has more than 180,000 residents, spans parts of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Same-sex marriages are not allowed in any of those states.


I dont see here that you actually give a point of view of your own here in this post. But you did give your response to people as they commented.

I would like to point out that the GOV should have nothing to do with people getting married. It is suppossed to be a bond under the eyes of the lord not a law maker.

I would also like to point out that All religion that sets a punishment like Hell that can only be proven false by the forfeit of your own life, is a system of control based on fear.

Allot of religion like Lutheran, only demand that you believe in the lord to go to heaven. To them it doesnt matter who you are or what so called sins you might have committed.

So with these religions out there that dont abide by man made laws in religion.

Are these people going to hell?

Are you going to heaven because you didnt eat meat on Fridays?

Or because to paid your Tithe?

It makes no difference whether homosexuals marry or not, whether you beleive in their right to do so or not.

They will be in heaven just the same as you, their religion tells them so. Just like yours tells you.

Peace.

[makor01]

love thy neighbor, and judge not let you be judged yourself...seems that alot of christians love to "judge" others now'a days. kinda overstepping your bounds if you ask me, or maybe forgetting the roots of your own religion. leave the judging up to god, if he infact finds them lacking then im sure theyll burn...but its not your place to say.
gays are living, breathing, human beings just like you and i... sexual preference is something that is nobody elses business, and the government has NO right and i mean NO right to tell a person who they can love/marry. as americans we have that right to choose what you want to be, be it gay or straight, christian, or muslim, it matters not.

[Stedric]

Howdy Stedric,

One 'special right',that activist gays want,and have pretty much already been given..is the 'right' to go into public schools and step between parents and their children,in order to keep children of faith,from being intolerant of gays. They and their supporters,believe that it's their 'right',to 'de-program' a child raised to believe that homosexuality,is a sin. In so doing,they are denying children and their parents,the freedom of religion..and folks of Faith,are still in the majority..despite the best efforts of amoral relativists,the Left,secular humanists and anti-God and anti-religionists.

Have a good one....
Teaching children tolerance is not the same as deprogramming them. Tolerance means that while you do not have to approve of homosexuality, you must learn to deal with the issue in an intelligent and non-hateful manner.

These groups are also smart enough to know that what they teach will never have as much power as what parents preach.

Kudos to my favourite veteran,

Stedric

[Torog]

Teaching children tolerance is not the same as deprogramming them. Tolerance means that while you do not have to approve of homosexuality, you must learn to deal with the issue in an intelligent and non-hateful manner.

These groups are also smart enough to know that what they teach will never have as much power as what parents preach.

Kudos to my favourite veteran,

Stedric
Howdy Stedric,

Yeah...I know that you're right..and there ain't no call for hate or violence,in this issue and I condemn those who do engage in such a waste of time and energy. I know that alot of folks think that I'm engaging in hate,but I'm not..as a Christian,I am to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Yup,parental 'preaching',is still a more powerful an influence..however,I believe that if there's a way to git around that,they'll find it..there's many a liberal,with Hillary Clinton included,that wants to declare Christianity,a 'war-like religion',that they consider to be harmful to children. They have no such compunctions,about Islam,which does call for war and murder..and puts homosexuals to death or punishes them severely,with lashes from a whip.

Thanx for your kind words...

Have a good one ...

[slipknotpsycho]

Howdy XTC,

I thought that it was intersting,that the Navajo folk,rose up and over-rode a politically-correct decision,by an obviously liberal,'politician'. I believe in basic equal rights for gays,but I don't think that they should be able to marry,marriage traditionally calls for God's Blessing..and God will not bless such an abomination. You say that society okays a faith-based prejudice,but I say,that just the opposite is true,being a person of faith,usually results in being scorned and reviled..by today's liberal society.

For the millionth time..I do not fear gays,I view them as sinners..opposing their agenda,doesn't make me afraid of them..and they do have an agenda,they want equal rights,special rights and to destroy any faith-based rejection of homosexuality,as the sin that it is. Just because I oppose terrorism,doesn't make me afraid of terrorists,if anything..they should fear me.

I'm not blinded by my faith,my faith,makes me see clearer..I can 'see' evil,where you can't or refuse to see,because I don't make compromises with evil acts and behaviour..like amoral relativists.

I wonder,when the gays have finally secured all of their 'rights',and NAMBLA steps forward and begins lobbying for age of consent reductions..will you support them as well ? The members of NAMBLA,believe that it's their right,to have sexual relations with young boys..and if they are lobbying for a 'right',then they should have it-by golly ! NOT !!

Have a good one...
......this is going to take me a minute to get my thoughts out so it may be kind of scattered...first of all how can you believe in basic equal rights for gays and say that they can't get married? marriage is a basic right. also you believe in basic equal rights for them but call it an "abomination" that just seeps with hypocritism. if god made everything (which i don't believe that there even is a god) and is all mighty and powerful but despises gays then why in the hell did he make them that way? according to you damn believers he is all powerful and all knowing all wise and blah blah blah so then he'd have the power to change it. and don't give me none of that temptation crap either, because quite frankly they are attracted to the same sex as hetrosexuals are attracted to the opposite....it's all they will ever find attractive...it's no diffrent except for the sex they are attracted to....other than that they are just like every other human in this world. if this god is all loving and caring as you make him out to be then he should love them ALL not just the ones that will procreate. on a side note how does the government get off on saying that gay marriage is taboo because the bible says so when........THE DAMN COUNTRY ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE BASED ON RELIGION and is supposed to have freedom of religion......on another side note if you have ever sinned in your life then you are on no diffrent of a level than gay people....and you're religion does blind you....it doesn't let you see the evil, the bible only teaches you to judge people not the opposite...the bible is the most hypocritical thing i have ever read in my life....every other page is a hypocritical statement, by the way you talk i know that you think gay marriage is wrong because of the bible, so therefore your faith is blinding you. maybe next time you're reading your bible have an actual open mind about it and notice all the judgements it makes, the hypocritical statements it makes, all the inconformities (i think that's the right word i've been up all night and can't think of the right one) it has. it's all in there if you don't just go blindly believing everything and taking everything for it's face value.....learn to read between the lines. about the fact that "Hillary Clinton included,that wants to declare Christianity,a 'war-like religion',that they consider to be harmful to children. They have no such compunctions,about Islam,which does call for war and murder..and puts homosexuals to death or punishes them severely,with lashes from a whip." ....christianity is a war type religion....more people have died in the name of god than for any other reason in this world....and unless i'm wrong on this (which i don't believe i am) christianity is the only religion that tells you that you have to stick to that one and follow it exactly or you will burn in hell forever. and as far as i'm concerned that's tyranny.....look it up and read the definition and tell me it's not. and what woul dyou consider worse? being lashed and severely beaten every once in awhile or burning for all eternity? i'd pick the first one and i know you would to and with that being said you just chose someone elses religion over your own which you are trying to convince me and everyone else is more tollerant to gays.....at most with the other one they die and it's over...according to yours they burn and suffer forever...just because your god made them that way....tell me again your god is all loving and caring...i dare you

[Torog]

Howdy slip,

Marriage,is,has been and hopefully,will always be between a man and a woman,not between 2 men or 2 women or a man/woman's favorite animal. Traditionally,Man has called upon God to bless the union of a man and woman,but God should not be called upon to bless an abomination and perversion of His Creation,Man..whom He made to reproduce heterosexually,not homosexually. Maybe God is testing our free will and devotion to His Word,by allowing homosexuals to come into being..while on the one hand,we must condemn the sin of homosexuality,we also have an imperative,to lead them to Salvation.

The marriage issue,is not just religious,but also,societal,therefore the federal goverment and State goverments,have a right to reflect the will of the people..and most of us,are against destroying the institution of marriage,in order to grant special rights for those who indulge in sexual perversion.

Do you support NAMBLA ? Do you support the lowering of the age of consent for children to have sex ?

Jesus Christ said that "none can enter Heaven,except through me..." He didn't say that those who don't, will burn in Hell for an eternity..they just won't git as far as Heaven. They may stand around the gates of Heaven,but until they accept Christ..they won't git any further.

Have a good one...

[slipknotpsycho]

you know i really feel sorry for people like you. i really do. not only are you following a blind faith but you won't even listen to reason or even take in all of what i said. you are still saying the same things over and over. were you there when jesus said these things? if not then how do you know? you don't, so quit acting like you do. i also knew you were going to give me that temptation crap and i told you not to but you did anyways. come up with a better excuse than that atleast.....don't you think it's just a TAD BIT SCREWED that your all loving god would put temptation there in the first place if all it's going to do is lead to pain and suffering? he's all powerful and all knowing so he knows whether they are going to give into it or not before hand so why even bother doing it in the first place? can you give me half-assed logical reason for that? if you were told tommorow that aleins exist and are going to eat everyone's brains would you believe that too? or does it have to be in a book WRITTEN BY MAN so long ago that everything could of gotten twisted around or added onto as the person felt like it? and no i don't support NAMBLA i don't even know what it is. and what does "legal child molestion" have to do with what i'm saying anyways? just because i'm saying that gay people should have just as much right to be happy and live together just as much as every other person doesn't mean i'm supporting everything you think is wrong because some little book tells you it's wrong. of all the reasons to be against homosexuality you chose the worst one....you are listening to something you don't know to be true, and i don't care how much faith you have you still DON'T KNOW. it's not an abomination and perversion of his creation either, IT IS HIS CREATION! plain and simple he made them that way, he knows before hand what they are going to do so tell me your excuse for this. i would really like to see how someone that blindly follows this book and makes excuses for everything in it can just explain this away. LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD ACCORDING TO YOU CHRISTIANS HE KNOWS EVERYTHING FROM PAST, PRESENT ALL THE WAY TO THE FUTURE, HE IS THE GOD AND CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS SO HE KNEW THAT THEY "WOULD SIN" BUT STILL CREATED HOMOSEXUALITY so explain how he is trying to "test their faith" when he already knows what will happen.....i'm really going to enjoy seeing this excuse cuz this one has got to be a good one. do you even have a clue why it's against gods will? do you honestly know? or are you just reading that book of yours and taking everything to heart, believing everything it says? i'm guessing the latter of the two....and how is it destroying the institution of marriage if two people join together....do you even understand the concept of marriage? or are you again just reading that book of yours and repeating everything it says instead of your own opinions (you can say these are yours all you want but the way you talk shows that most if not all of your decesion on the subject has been influenced by that book) and even tho the bible tells you not to you are still judging....IMHO god has no right to have anything against gays at all since he put the temptation there. this will be the last time i post here unless you can learn to say something else or think of a diffrent set of excuses beacause all you've done in this last post is repeat what you said in the one above it. you are the most hypocritcal person i've ever seen and that book is the most hypocritical thing i've ever read and god himself is just a hypocrite (atleast the way he is shown by the bible) i really wish you would even just once actually take the time to re-read that book and listen to what i have to say, but i know you won't i can already see you are set in your ways and have a closed mind. i hope it won't always be between a man and a woman because that would signify a more mature thinking society. to think that only a man and woman should be able to live happily together and reap the benefits of sharing that lasting bond is just ingnorant. you still haven't explained how it would be considered "special rights". is it considered special rights when a man and a woman join? no, then why should it be any diffrent for gays? are you saying they are less than human? also if i support "legal child molestation" becasue i support gay marriage, then you support slaverly since you support no rights for someone just becasue they're gay. how were slaves thought of back then? they had no rights just becasue they were black, how are gays treated today? they have some rights but they are still treated unfairly and unequally. every human being should have the same rights no matter their skin color, language they speak, sexual preference, religion and so fourth. besides if it's so wrong in your deity's eyes, then why bother wasting the time on all of this since they are going to get what they deserve anyways? it doesn't make sense. how come your all mighty god has to have minions to do his dirty work? becasue that is what you're doing. if you believe your faith, then don't worry about gay marriage, let him deal with it. remember it's not your place to judge (which is exactly what you ARE doing)

[Stedric]

Howdy Stedric,

Yeah...I know that you're right..and there ain't no call for hate or violence,in this issue and I condemn those who do engage in such a waste of time and energy. I know that alot of folks think that I'm engaging in hate,but I'm not..as a Christian,I am to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Yup,parental 'preaching',is still a more powerful an influence..however,I believe that if there's a way to git around that,they'll find it..there's many a liberal,with Hillary Clinton included,that wants to declare Christianity,a 'war-like religion',that they consider to be harmful to children. They have no such compunctions,about Islam,which does call for war and murder..and puts homosexuals to death or punishes them severely,with lashes from a whip.

Thanx for your kind words...

Have a good one ...

Torog, only about 60 years ago one of the most civilized Christian nations commited a monstrous mass murder of Jews, Gypsies, the disabled and homosexuals. Christian nations are not without their share of monstrous deeds.

Don't mistake what I said, I don't believe Christianity is a "war-like" religion at all. I don't think any religion is. Some people use their religion to justify their hateful and violent acts on others, some use their religion as a reason to tolerate and seek peace. There is no such thing as a war-like religion, only war-like people, and war-like people come in all religions, colors and ethnic backrounds.

Hope the weather's treating ya good in Texas, Torog. Look forward to your response.

[Stedric]

*bump* Sorry guys, I really liked this discussion. Promise I'll only do it once. :)

[slipknotpsycho]

btw depending on where he lives...the weather is blowing quite horribly right now.....cuz it sux here...