My turn - Stunted growth?

[Token LaRoche]

Using coco, but this form seems more appropriate than the hydro form.

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) Noob (first grow)

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) T5 Florescent 4-2ft tubes in fixture
.2) Distance from tops? 4-6 inch
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) built-in (fixture)
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Maybe not -- it's in a closet
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Just added a fan today to move the air around
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 4x24W tubes, 6400K, 18/6 schedule

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) CocoTek "big block" coco coir, mixed approximately 80/20 with perlite
.8) Size of container. Solo cup
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? No - germinated in paper towels

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap water. pH is about 7.0 before adjusting
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) Liquid drops
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) ph Down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. No nutes at all yet - just water
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? Have been watering every 2-3 days, but see below
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) None
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Seem stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? ~6.0 ingoing, haven't tested runoff
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 3x3x6 ft tent inside 9x4x8 ft closet
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Haven't checked, but temps aren't extreme at all.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) White Rhino (Indica dominant, I think?)
24) From seeds or clones? Commercial seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No

So, here's the problem...

First seeds (2) were germinated 15 days ago. Germination seemed to go fine. Planted both in separate Solo cups with a 80/20 (or so) mix of coco/perlite. One of the plants grew a bit, then kind of stopped growing. The other one barely grew at all (and has since died; the result of an attempted transplant that was a bad idea anyway). I now have a 3rd plant going, so there are two under the lights.

My concern is that once planted, they grow a bit than stop (or slow way down). Here's a picture of plant #1 after two weeks:
290275
It hasn't changed much in the last week and should be a lot further along. (Right?)

No nutes yet, just pH adjusted tap water. This is probably bad voodoo, but I pulled the two plants out a couple days ago to see the roots, and #1 looked like this:
290276
Seems like the roots are growing great; why no leaf growth? I put that one back in the Solo cup and it still seems fine today - 2 days later, but still no real growth above ground.

I'm thinking overwatering? Seems like this coco mix never dries out (drainage is fine, but even after a couple days, the cups are still "heavy"). But I also don't have much ventilation in there. Tent has a carbon filter and fan, but haven't used that, and I keep the tent open anyway. So, I quit watering 2 days ago and added a fan to circulate the air just an hour ago.

Any thoughts? Plan so far is to water a whole lot less and get some air moving.

[Mal420xl]

sounds like you got your own answers. look a lil too wet is all maybe. they do have to grow the roots first then vegetation. someone posted a reply for a thread a while ago that made awesome sense.
it was something like "stop thinking in terms days and start thinking in terms of weeks." and when it comes to plant growth those words are pure gold. as much as we would like them to be like pets theyre only plants.

[polishpollack]

Are you actually using the pH down? In soil, typically, you don't need to. I'm guessing that your soil is the problem. If there's no fert to it, this could be a problem. Like usual, I'm going to suggest you get a bottle, preferable the small one, about 8-9 ounces if you can find it, of Dynagro 7-9-5. It doesn't take much for a soil grow of this fert to work. Just one half teaspoon in a gallon of water will be fine, just don't give a whole lot of water, and see what happens. It could be that there is no fert to this kind of potting soil. After two weeks, this plant should be bigger, like 8 inches in soil grow. If you want really fast growth, then learn how to make a DWC 5 gallon bucket. Or ask at a grow store to show you how. It's easy and Dynagro works good for that too. Just follow the directions on the bottle.

[polishpollack]

double post, sorry.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks for the input, mal and polish!

Yeah, I am using the pH down (about 1 drop for a half gallon of water). This drops the pH from about 7.0 to 6.0 best I can tell using the indicator drops. Grow medium is coco coir mixed with perlite, so not really soil or potting mix. From the reading I've done, this is more like a hydroponic deal than growing in soil and coco coir is pretty sterile? And everything I've read says not to add any nutrients until there are more leaves. It does seem like something is lacking, though! I've got the Fox Farms hydro chemicals, but haven't tried that for fear of burning the plants. Maybe try a really diluted mixture just to see? I think the local store carries Dynagro too.

One day after adding the fan... this seems to help things dry out faster, if nothing else. I think I'm seeing a bit of growth now, but maybe that's just wishful thinking? The cup for plant #1 was pretty dried out, so I watered it (first time in 6 days).

8 inches in two weeks? Definitely doin something wrong here.

Thanks for the comments and keep 'em coming. I should know in another couple days if this was just a case of overwatering.

[polishpollack]

By sterile, do you mean inert? As in coco doesn't change, won't break down? that's probably right. If you haven't ferted yet and your in coco, maybe a little fert might be good. Potting soil is really more designed for this kind of thing. The castings are nice but won't give a whole lot. If you have fert already, I'd probably avoid using something else. You don't want to overdo it or mix and match ferts.

[Token LaRoche]

Inert? Yeah, that's a better description... I don't think coco has any nutrients at all. And I'm pretty sure that's the problem (my solution today - ha!). I've been going on the advice that you shouldn't add any nutes until you have 4 leaves (even asked this specific question). But, it seems like that's for growing in soil which actually does have some nutrients and the goal of waiting there is to avoid over-fertilizing the very young plants. Since coco coir has no food to begin with, it looks like you have to fertilize from the very start. Maybe someone here who knows the specifics can clarify? Coco is more like a hydroponic grow where feeding is concerned. And I still have no idea what I'm doing, but I think I'm learning! :lol:

So, I mixed up a batch of fertilized water this morning. pH balanced it. Interesting -- with the plant food added, I had to use pH UP to get it to 6.0. Half-strength Fox Farms hydro stuff and flushed all 3 plants with it. I've got three plants in various stages. One is over 2 weeks old -- still alive, but I bet I shocked it beyond repair. The second one has been in the "dirt" for about a week. #3 seed was just planted yesterday.

Thanks for your comments!! I'll for sure be back with status reports & pictures, but think I'm on the right track. Definitely wasn't born with a green thumb, but I'm determined to learn.

[polishpollack]

You're right about coco and nutes not having any. that's not to say that you can't buy coco prepackaged with nutes added, although I've yet to see that. When you say "dirt" do you mean like outside your residence kind of dirt? If so, don't use that for an indoor grow as it could have bugs. Most potting soils come with a charge of fertilizer mixed in. It's really what you want to use for an indoor soil grow, but I know that some will argue that idea. You want to use what causes the least trouble. Why pay for coco just to turn around and buy fertilizer? You can get stuff that has fert to it and you might have to add some toward the end. pH is suppose to drop when you add fert as it's a little acidic, so you have that right. Just don't over fert. Keep posting in this thread as I'd like to see your progress. So many people get their problem solved and never come back. About the fert you have, you say it's hydro fert. Many times a company will put different strengths in soil fert and hydro fert. I'm guessing the reason why you got this fert is because you're not using potting soil. Therefore, if you transplant, keep in mind what medium to use and be careful how you fert it. If you get potting soil with fert, mabey back off the hydro fert for a while and see what happens.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks for the comments! Actually, I meant common potting soil when talking dirt. I'm going the coco route because... well, the first web site I came across that seemed to have easy directions for this sort of thing was growweedeasy.com and that's what they recommend. A horticulturist, I ain't (lol), but willing to learn. Probably should have gone with the potting soil (and honestly, wish I'd found this site first). Think I'll give it another week or so and if things don't start to look up, FFOF it is.

Yeah, using the Fox Farms hydro stuff because of the coco. Two days after watering with the half-strength stuff, things seem to be growing, but now it looks like I may have a bit of fert burn. (WTF? With half strength?) Here's the pics from today:

290323290324

Plant in the first picture is 19 days from dry seed. Second pic is 10 days. Not exactly "growing like weeds" eh?

More to come and comments always welcome!

[low_rdr]

I would advise against the nutes (sorry pollack), simply because your roots can easily be burnt. Honestly it looks like your soil is too moist, and its not getting enough air. an 80/20 mix seems VERY lite, the only reason you add perlite into the coco coir is JUST to bring air in, the more perlite, the more air.

I've got a bean I popped 4 days ago, almost the size of your little sprouts now :) I think your over watering, OH and make sure you have drain holes in your solo cups, you don't want that nasty water sitting there - I typically have to hit my solo cups every 3-4 days with about 1/3 cup of water each (when I do soil grows)

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks for the comments, low_rdr! I'm here to learn. <g>

I'm thinking that this is all about the soil (in this case, coco, which has no nutes). Plant #1 is almost 3 weeks in, and growth seemed incredibly slow until nutes were added. Now, it seems nute burned with a light mixture -- seriously, this is it's first taste of any food, but it's started to grow. I think, anyway. My thought is that if you plant a seedling in a coco/perlite mix and just water it, it will never grow because there is no food. Be aware that I have zero clue what I'm doing here, tho.

My "process" so far has been to germinate the seeds in paper towels (in Baggies). This seems to work well, and I'm using commercial seed from Herbie's. They germinate fast (24-48 hours). These are planted in the coco/perlite mix in a Solo cup and watered with nothing but pH adjusted tap water. Once in this mix, they seem to sprout okay, but don't grow at all.

I agree with the overwatering -- cutting back on that and the 1/3 cup of water seems about right to me. The cups do have drain holes. I use a "clear" Solo cup for the coco and put that inside another Solo cup to catch the runoff. Plant #1 has roots I can see that are growing at the edge of the clear cup. This plant has serious roots, but is lacking on leaves. Looking forward to when transplanting is even an issue.

Anyway, I know this is going to be a learning deal and greatly appreciate the advice. Many years ago, I threw a few bagseeds into a pile of dirt, and it worked out better than what I'm seeing today with all this hifallutin stuff. But, I am patient.

[low_rdr]

Many years ago you didn't over think it, or over love them :)

The pod of the seed actually has all the nutrients the plant needs for its first few weeks. All you have to do is add water. As far as your mixture is concerned, just too moist, I wouldn't worry about the lack of nutrients - In all honesty, coco is the way to go, because you know exactly what your putting in, there is no guessing, so when there is an issue, its easy to pinpoint. Remember that your plant roots need air, I firmly believe they aren't getting enough.

As for nutes, I'm not saying don't feed them, because they are a few weeks old, but I would only give 1/4 feeding per gallon, and it shouldn't take much longer (if the roots are starting to touch the edge) for the foliage up top to come in.

Keep in mind, that these guys may be a little runted for awhile, but if you lighten up on the feeding schedule, and get some more air into those roots, they'll balance out quickly

[Token LaRoche]

No joke, man. Never heard of "bud" back then, either. :pimp:

I think you're right about the food. Seems like I've gone from zero growth to decent growth with a bit of burn in a couple days here. The first feed was half strength and that seems like it was too much (seeing some signs). But they're actually showing signs of growth now.

In coco, I'm starting to think that maybe a week or two of no food (just like you say) might be best, then start feeding real slow.

(Maybe this will be a grow log / plant problem / newb deal?).

Today was watering day (all three cups real light and dry). Got three plants born about a week apart and I watered all three with half strength FF hydro on Saturday (Big Bloom and Grow Big). Here's the grow log part:

Plant #1:
290337
This plant was a dry seed on 2/27. No real growth until I added the food 3 days ago. Now it's growing, but too much food?

Plant #2:
290338
Dry seed on 3/8. It's almost caught up with plant 1. Likewise, didn't start growing until food was added.

Plant #3:
290339
Dry seed on 3/11. Kinda mutant? Three leaves? I fed this the same as the others on 3/16 with the half strength FF mix and I think that might have been a bad idea.

Anyway, the deal today... Watered #1 and #2 with 1/3 strength food (maybe 1/4 would be better?) - cutting back on the food a bit and watered #3 with pH adjusted tap water (no more food for you until you get a little older!).

Oh, and strains - #1 and #2 are both White Rhino (World of Seeds). #3 is Barney's Pineapple Chunk.

Plant #1 has roots against the glass now and has for some time (no idea what I'm doing, but CLEAR solo cups seemed like a good idea just for this reason). Might have to think about transplanting before long?

Lovin' the learnin', but wantin' the smoke. :lol:

[low_rdr]

I usually don't pull out of my solo cups until the foilage has gone over the edge of every side of the cup by about 1" or so, by then they're typically 6 or 7 inches tall with about 10-12 nodes (remember, the closer your lights, the closer the nodes)

Then I'll put them in a 3 or 5 gallon to finish. If your keeping one for a mom (don't if its bagseed) put her in a 1 or 3 gallon, just so she stays small and bushy.

Oh, I see your not using bagseed - You gonna turn these into moms? or you gonna clone them and flower them out and use hte clones for moms?

[Token LaRoche]

Got a ways to go yet before they overlap the cup. I'm still pretty concerned that the growth of these are stunted -- growing now, but not very fast and at this rate, it's going to be awhile! Since this is my first grow, there are no plans for moms or such. I can buy more seed, and wouldn't mind checking out a few different varieties. My plan is to dry 'em and smoke 'em. :lol:

Anyway... Got home from work yesterday and #3 was bent over in the cup. Call that one dead, not sure what happened -- it never really even produced leaves. Also discovered that the lights have been running 24/7 (not that it matters at this stage). I've now duct-taped the switch on the timer to prevent that from happening again. So, back to the original two plants, Laverne and Shirley.

Seeing some pretty steady growth this week, but like I said, it's going to be awhile.

Here's Laverne today (Plant #1 from before):
290407290408290409

The coco isn't really rust colored -- problem with the photo.

This plant is now 23 days from seed. Seems pretty slow to me still. Should be a lot bigger, I think. I used clear Solo cups on purpose so I could see the roots (these are stacked inside non-clear cups normally). As you can see, the root system has made it to the end of the coco and is now digging. I'm not sure if this means I should think of transplanting to a bigger pot or not.

I've got 3 gallon pots here and can continue with the coco/perlite (have lots), but I'm starting to think this coco/perlite thing is why I'm not seeing the growth. Part of me wants to buy a bag or two of FFOF and transplant to that.

low_rdr... how old are your plants when they hit the 6-7 inch / 10-12 node point in their growth?

As always thanks for the comments; mucho appreciated (from everyone!)

Coupla pics of Shirley (can always tell when I'm on a VB forum... does wierd things with photo attachments)

[Mal420xl]

are there drain holes in those cups?

[low_rdr]

I've got a week old seedling (in hydro) just now pushing up its first node - mine are typically ready for transplant in week 3, and your roots will wrap around that cup pretty well (thats rootbound) you don't want that, just close to it, I'd say give them another week in those cups.

Notice how the amount of foliage has doubled just in the past few days? The leaves are catching up with the roots now. So leave them to catch up for a little bit longer, remember the larger the leaves are, the more light they can convert into energy thus making bigger, stronger, and longer roots. The bigger the root system, the larger the plant can grow :D

So yeah, give the veg at least few more days to expand, I'm sure in a full week you'll have at least 4 nodes on there at the current rate. Transplanting now only encourages the roots to seek out more space, instead of more energy on the leaves

So far so good, and don't worry, everyone looses seedlings first starting out!

OH and just saw your post about the soil -

keep them in the coco/perlite, if you wanna mix in the FFOF with the coco/perlite that's fine, just keep it under 40% (or to taste) but I'd keep it under 40. And remember not to use that on the seedlings until they're put into veg. But keep using the coco and the perlite, the coco holds great moisture, and the perlite adds good air - don't change either. the ONLY benefit to the soil is the added nutes, and we've already seen the damage too much nutes can cause, right? :)

[Token LaRoche]

First, yup, the cups have drain holes. When I water them, I actually get some decent runoff through the holes -- let it drain well before putting the clear cups back into the other cups (only takes a minute or two).

Anyway, decided to transplant today. Partly because both plants had roots starting to come out the drain holes and partly because I wanted to do this on a weekend when I have plenty of time and I don't think it'll wait another week.

Both plants are now in 3-gal pots; same mix as the cups -- coco and perlite. I mixed a batch of food water (1/3 strength Big Bloom and Grow Big) pH balanced for 6.0 and soaked the coco/perlite mix before transplanting. It holds water real well, but as long as it has drainage, the mix never really gets soaked. In the cups, I was going about 3 days between waterings.

Transplanting is SCARY, man. :) First one went well, but the second one fell apart in my hand. I hope like heck I didn't damage anything getting it into the new pot! The stalks didn't seem real small, but the bigger plant had finally gotten wider than the cup.

Some pre-transplant pics:
290467290468290469

[polishpollack]

Low_rdr, I'm a little confused... I said give a little nutes. You say that you advise against it, then in your next post you say that's not what you're saying and for Token to give 1/4 strength nutes. You also say that perlite is to allow into the soil. Perlite hold moisture, not air. Have you ever squeezed a piece of perlite? It's like a little sponge. Also, can you explain this: "in the FFOF with the coco/perlite that's fine, just keep it under 40% (or to taste) but I'd keep it under 40." Why do you say this? What about those that grow in 100% FF potting soil? Are they making a mistake? Exactly what is Token suppose to use to make up the other 60%?

[Mal420xl]

hmmm, pp my perlite is like a lava rock kinda, wet or dry, what you describe is like vermiculite.

[polishpollack]

Sponge wasn't the right word to use. yes, you're right, it's like a brittle rock and can be crushed between the fingers. That's what I should have said. Vermiculite holds moisture, but anytime I've read about perlite, the info stated the purpose was to hold moisture. More reading shows that it's used to retain water and air.
"In horticultural applications, perlite is used throughout the world as a component of soilless growing mixes where it provides aeration and optimum moisture retention for superior plant growth."
It really can't do both at the same time, which I guess is why vermiculite is added.

[low_rdr]

perlite is for air - vermiculite is pointless, its an added expense, might as well just use the coco coir. There are some people that swear by it, I don't know why. I think what I like about perlite the most, is that even though its so fine, I've actually seen roots grow right THROUGH IT! I think thats sooo cool!

As far as nutrients, I disagreed that plants that small should receive them, in the very next post I realized the plants were 3 weeks old. What changed was the age of the plant (I hadn't noticed before), seedlings are hatched with enough nutrients to get them through the first few weeks of life, added nutrients aren't needed, just proper care. When I learned the plant was indeed a few weeks old, and not the week old seedling I thought it was, then I agreed that a total lack of nutrition could lead to starvation.

I've never made any suggestions as to growing in FFOF is wrong. I think FFOF mixed with perlite and coco coir are a great combination, up to 40%. The reason I like up to 40% FFOF in my 50/50 blend of coco/perlite is because I like the added benefit of the nutrients allows me to be a little more free with my soil type grow. For seedlings, clones - I think its too hot to use out of the bag. As far as people using 100% FFOF and thriving - That's good for them! I firmly think everyone should find a type of grow that works best for them and stick to it! Personally, soil isn't the best for me, but I posted what I have experience with in this matter. I've done 40% FFOF added to a 50/50 blend of coco coir and perlite, exactly how much is that? That's 40% of the total mass of 10 meters of coco coir and 10 meters of perlite, so 4 meters (estimated) of FFOF.

As for perlite not adding air - Perlite itself might not actually add air to the grow, but the point of perlite is not to hold in water, it is to take up space in your grow medium that won't compact when wet. Perlite allows air into the grow because its tiny pores hold oxygen in, even when wet, and release them into the roots of the plant. To test this you can simply use .5-2 cups perlite, put in a bowl, submerge with water, then put a screen down, and watch the bubbles rise. Then, empty the bowl, let the perlite dry, and repeat. Perlite also makes a great (but messy) base for a complete hydro grow. Perlite is CONSIDERED (but isn't always) PH neutral, since the organic structure of perlite consists of dioxides, it can sometimes raise/lower your plants PH, this is seldom the case, but rest assured, if your perlite does cause a PH imbalance, its a good thing, that means its releasing additional dioxides which for the most part, are good for your plant.

Thanks for asking Polish, I'm sure theres alot of good info in that post!

[Token LaRoche]

Good read, all -- thanks for all the great info!

Some pics two days after transplant. Here's Laverne:
290489290490

And here's Shirley:
290491290492

Right at 4 weeks from seed now, and they still seem pretty small to me, but they're definitely growing. Very little distance between the nodes and the plants are only 2 to 3 inches tall. Not sure if I should be concerned or not -- I hear tales of people starting flowering this early and clearly, these two are quite a ways from that point. They do seem healthy though and neither one showed any signs of shock from the transplant.

[Token LaRoche]

Thinking that tomorrow will probably be watering day. All I've done since Sunday is take pictures and the top half inch of the coco is pretty dry today. Thoughts? I'm thinking it's time to increase the nutes to 1/2 the Fox Farms recommendation (from 1/3). Two day's growth on Shirley is indicating about 0.3 inches a day, measured tip-to-tip on the biggest leaves. Here's the pics from Monday, yesterday and today:

290526290527290528

Not looking bad, but things still seem slow -- Shirley is now 19 days from seed. Laverne is actually smaller (but doing okay) and is now a full 4 weeks from seed.

This is probably that time everyone warns about where growers make mistakes from impatience. I'm determined to not do this, but do plan to up the nutes by a fraction on the next watering (so stop me if y'all think this is a bad idea). If things are still looking good this weekend, I might move this over to the grow log area.

As always, thoughts and comments are not only welcome, but fun!

[Token LaRoche]

Damn. Didn't mean to hit the forum with the high resolution shots. Will tone it down in the future.

[polishpollack]

Low_rdr, okay, that's clears things up.
Token, looking good so far.

[Token LaRoche]

Plants look healthy. Watered them today with a half strength mix of FF hydro; pH adjusted to 6.0 or as close as I can get. Been four days now since transplant and the top of the coir was pretty dry today.

Long way from thinking of flower yet...?

[polishpollack]

Yeah, let them grow for a while. They continue to grow in flower so based on your room size and how big you can let them get and how long you can grow without too much trouble, you can easily flower anywhere from about 1 foot tall to 3 feet or so. It will get very smelly, so be forewarned. In the end, it's the grower's decision when to flower, not really the plant's so much. Outdoors flowering is just based on exposure to sunlight.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks, pp (and low_rdr, and everyone). You've helped me get "on track" with this, and I really want to "do it right." Comments of any sort always welcome.

I've learned from all the reading that patience helps a lot (and I'm trying!). Outside of things going a little slower than I expected, the two plants I have are really looking pretty healthy.

I read a lot before I started this and hope I'm equipped for the smell. I'm growing in a 3x3x6' grow tent that I've set up with a carbon filter and an inline fan. Don't use that (yet) -- just have a small fan to keep the air moving. Really small operation and I've probably spent about a grand so far (including seeds - this shit adds up fast). Ideally, I'd like to have a continuous indoor crop going for my own use, and maybe a bit to give away to friends (no commercial desire). I'm legal by virtue of geography (wink, wink) and an old geezer who grew a bit 25-30 years ago and smoked my share of pot back in the 70's and early 80's. Been an advocate for legalization For. Fucking. Ever. ;)

Anyway, I'm digging the community here -- you guys are great and are a big help.

Laverne says hi!
290571

[Token LaRoche]

Babies are looking pretty good, but just in the last couple days, I've noticed some yellow fringing on the bigger leaves of one plant:

290626

Should I worry? The other plant (same seed, identical conditions all around) isn't showing this. I thought it might be due to drying out a bit, but maybe not? Went 6 days without water, but the mix was still damp (and I'm still learning). Watered last night and used the same formula as before; 50% strength of the FF hydro nutes, pH balanced.

[polishpollack]

That's not bad. I wouldn't worry unless it gets worse. It's most likely a result of a little too much fert.

[Token LaRoche]

That's not bad. I wouldn't worry unless it gets worse. It's most likely a result of a little too much fert.

Thanks! Kinda what I was thinking; sort of like I'm right on the edge with the food. I thought of dropping the fert level on this round, but didn't and I've been feeding with every watering. Will keep a close eye on it and can flush with just water if that seems appropriate.

Plants are about a month from seed now (just seems longer) and the grow room is taking on a distinct odor. I didn't think this would be an issue until flowering, but may be firing up the carbon filter sooner than I thought.

Laverne & Shirley today:

290628290627

[Mal420xl]

that stink is gonna get a lot worse before flowering at least mine have. at 7 weeks i can smell them as i come into my basement before i get to the room theyre in. when i open the tent its reallly strong its awesome!

[polishpollack]

Don't flush unless you have to. Just let the soil dry out before you water again.

[Token LaRoche]

Good to know, Mal!

Laverne and Shirley live in a 3x3x6' grow tent. I set it up with filtering, haven't needed it, but it looks like this will be getting it's first test pretty soon. It's only been the last few days that I've started noticing the smell.

Wife is cool with what I'm doing, but the odor will have to be managed to perfection. Next step in the journey.

[Token LaRoche]

Don't flush unless you have to. Just let the soil dry out before you water again.

Cool. My plan is to change nothing unless I have to. Swear the soil was still pretty wet after 6 days last round -- this is coco/perlite, but the pots were starting to feel light after almost a week. Seriously, if it wasn't for my desire to take pictures, they were on their own for 6 days.

Growth has been really good this week, but not a lot of vertical... I've been raising the lights...

Still have lotsa questions.

[Token LaRoche]

Fired up the carbon filter today. We were just starting to smell the plants the last week or so. When I set this up (lots of reading; zero experience), I knew this would be an issue, so built it all around a "sealed" grow tent. Had that all set up before germinating the seeds, but it never smelled until recently.

This morning, I closed the tent and turned the fan on. Smell was gone in 5 minutes.

[Esteban1]

@ this stage of the game the less you do the better....., IMHO . Don't fret, will have way more concern in the coming weeks!

Sic Semper Tyrannus

:wtf:

[Token LaRoche]

I hear ya Esteban. I think things are going really well here, just not quite as fast as I expected -- that is, given what I've read, I expected the plants to be bigger than they are. I've really been doing "nothing" lately. Turned the carbon filter on a couple days ago. And seem to be watering every 6 days (semi-hydro, takes a bit of time to mix the food and adjust the pH).

Much to learn, but so far....

[Token LaRoche]

Don't flush unless you have to. Just let the soil dry out before you water again.

Heya pp... Seems to be getting a little worse. Here's a shot from today (these are the lower leaves):
290710

Plants are otherwise looking pretty healthy. Would it be better to cut back on the nutes for the next watering, or maybe skip the nutes for one round and just go with pH balanced water? I've been running 50% strength FF hydro ferts at every watering (Big Bloom and Grow Big). Last couple feedings/waterings have been 6 days apart, but I can tell that these plants are starting to consume more and I'll have to increase the schedule. Here's the "big view."

290711
Just added the second light panel today (T5 fluorescent).

Thoughts and comments very welcome.

[Esteban1]

Token;

Normal for the lower leaves to die off since they were part of your initial over enthusiasm secondly the bottom leaves tend to die off, just part of the grow cycle. Grow Big is a good idea just as long as you go slow. Fyi, the lower leaves are feeding the upper canopy so thats great! How many nodes? Looking good!

Sic Semper My Azz

:thumbsup:

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks!

Tops are at node 7 by my count and the coir is already dry, so today will be watering day -- 6 days last time, now only 4. :)

[Token LaRoche]

Ha! So after a bunch of reading, decided to FIM the girls yesterday. I'm thinking I should have done this earlier, but whatever. I'd like to see the plants double in height before flowering (they're at 6 and 5 weeks now), so it feels like there's still time. Was enjoying the smell of the small fresh-cut leaves, and had a thought.

Holy crap. And that's all I'm sayin'.

[tlranger]

Ha! So after a bunch of reading, decided to FIM the girls yesterday. I'm thinking I should have done this earlier, but whatever. I'd like to see the plants double in height before flowering (they're at 6 and 5 weeks now), so it feels like there's still time. Was enjoying the smell of the small fresh-cut leaves, and had a thought.

Holy crap. And that's all I'm sayin'. and so it goes in the green room!!

[Shovelhandle]

Don't F.I.M. "miss" on the long side. I saw a grow the other day where 'a guy' had maybe 16, 9 week old plants in 2 gallon pots. The were at four days of bloom cycle and there was little height left. He showed me one plant that was 'his best' it had four tops. The others were still single apical meristem. He thought it was magic and not that it was the only plant that he topped (cropped, F.I.M.ed, whatever you want to call it) that he actually cut the stem and not just the leaf tips. This is a guy I can't tell anything to so I didn't try. I just told him that I thought his plants are too tall.
What I'm getting at is this, go ahead and try and fim. It's hard to get it where the stem will split at the cut into more than two stems. You can try it, but keep an eye on it to make sure you got the stem cut and not just a 'little trim' on the leaves. You can always cut it again a little closer, or cut it right below the leaves, fuck it, done.

[polishpollack]

sorry this is so late but I wasn't paying attention to this thread. Looks like you have a little overfert condition with that leaf tip browning. I guess flush if you want, but since a few days have past since last post and no new pic, it's hard to say what to do. if the browning is getting worse or affecting more plants, you might want to give some more water to dilute the ferts some.

[Token LaRoche]

Yeah, was thinking the same on overfert, pp. I've been doing a very religious FoxFarms Hydro 50% mix on these plants at every feeding. Was 6 days, then 4, now 3. Watered them on Tuesday with pH adjusted water only (no food, that's a first). Seems like the browning is getting better. Here's a shot today:
290836

Shovel... I'm not sure if I did a bad thing with the FIM or not. "It seemed like a good idea at the time." I may have cut too high. This is 5 days after:
290837

Plants really do seem pretty healthy and I'm mostly leaving them alone. Check the soil daily and take pictures, water/feed as needed and hope I'm doing the right thing. Plants are about a foot tall now, but real bushy. I really want to get these plants to the 18-24 inch range before flowering. Shouldn't take too many weeks the way things are going.

"It's all fun, it's all an experiment, and it's all smokable."

[Token LaRoche]

So.. still not too concerned; plants overall looking healthy, but here are some pics of the worst of the leaves:

291219291220291221

Still looks like a bit of nute burn here, but as long as it's just a little. The girls are looking pretty good a week into 12/12. Did a Sledgehammer flush three days ago and must admit that I've noticed no effect one way or another. Shirley's now measuring about 20" tall. Can't wait to start seeing some flowering.

291222

[lipps]

Get a moisture meter don't guess. Your plants are growing roots be patient, KISS. Plants this age need a balanced bloom formula not a grow formula because the same nutes that make buds are the same ones that make roots.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks lipps. I ordered a moisture meter (they're cheap) just to play with. I've been watering when the "dirt on the top feels dry and the pot feels light."

I've been using the Fox Farms hydro nutes and more or less following their schedule, but at half strength -- definitely shifting towards the bloom end of things on the mix. Starting to see the signs now and I'll try to get some good pics in the next couple days. Both plants now showing real signs of femaleness, so maybe those expensive feminized seeds were a good idea. :rastabanna: