LED Ahoy!

[khyberkitsune]

Okay, this becomes my new official grow journal. There's still the krusty/DWC update, but that stuff is going to be hash. pH swings like mad and heat issues from poorly-ventilated spaces caused that to be a complete cockup.

The gear:

1 new prototype 50w quad-band+4500K white LED, combo 120/90 degrees.
1 Current-gen 50w tri-band solar-insolation spec LED, fully 120 degrees.
1 current-gen 120w tri-band solar-insolation spec LED, fully 120 degrees.

The 120w gets my two largest mothers, as I'm flowering them now and will relegate some fresh clones to mom status. The prototype 50w gets the 5-site DWC SoG bucket. The 50w tri-band gets two DWC plants, taller than the others.

I'm a little shaky on when I started the flowering, but I know it hasn't been two weeks, and the buds are really just now starting, so we'll say this is the beginning of true flowering and roll for 10 weeks!

The fourth pic is of the 5-site DWC with a flash to simulate what it would look like under the prototype, as while the human eye has no problem seeing the green from three white diodes, the camera simply cannot due to the red and blue overload.

[bigsby]

I'm in. I learn something every time you post.

[neceros]

Where do you get your lights?

[khyberkitsune]

Where do you get your lights?

I design and make them.

Update time!

Going well! Much better than last flowering run. One week, flowers are about the size of my index tip joint. Getting frosty already as well.

[THContent]

I design and make them.

Update time!


Where do you get the parts to make them?

[neceros]

Fantastic. I hope to see how this goes, as I want to use Purely LEDs inhe future. Ballasts are too much trouble!

[khyberkitsune]

Where do you get the parts to make them?

I don't. I load up a PCB design program, lay out everything, then send the design out to a manufacturer that can meet my exact specifications.

I only get raw diodes for testing from companies.

[khyberkitsune]

I added another set of 9 clones into 12/12 flowering. Under a 50w, in a single Krusty Bucket.

[khyberkitsune]

Week 2 done, week 3 beginning, for the moms, day 3 for the clones in the new krusty bucket.

My closet is beginning to reek. Whenever I have not smoked in about an hour, the closet scent begins to build up.

[khyberkitsune]

Oh, and to add, I obtained some mylar from a friend and some spare hydro stuff he didn't need, so I might be making a new boxed system, soon!

[seventhchild]

seeing the future .....awesome

[khyberkitsune]

seeing the future .....awesome

Living the future is so much fun. :D

[khyberkitsune]

Ha! I just noticed in the first picture from the most recent update that the bottom bud on the lower left is still pretty nice, despite being under nearly three feet of canopy!

[khyberkitsune]

Added Mylar to the main half of the closet (where the majority of plants were located.)

This should improve things.

[khyberkitsune]

Adding some flash photography flower shots, after being asked to on Skype.

[neceros]

You make me hard. Er, I mean. Nice pics.

[khyberkitsune]

Adding more pictures, everything looks wonderful.

[khyberkitsune]

And adding a size comparison shot. Regular-size Bic.

[neceros]

OMG THEY ARE PURPLE. Looks good bud.

[canniwhatsis]

How long into flowering in that last "Bic" shot?

[canniwhatsis]

Posted 6-20-2010


I'm a little shaky on when I started the flowering, but I know it hasn't been two weeks, and the buds are really just now starting, so we'll say this is the beginning of true flowering and roll for 10 weeks!

Okay, never mind, so we both got a start on 12/12 around the same time as I started on 6/11/10, 9 day's later you weren't certain but it hadn't been 2 weeks just yet.


I've gotta say the Tric production looks better than mine, but the buds are looking a bit on the weak side,...

I'm pretty much disappointed in my buds ATM, but I know very well that I have at least another 2-3 weeks before things are finished, perhaps the LED's will bring it out on the last half, and if so,.... how do I get ahold of you for a test array,... I'd love to have more light, but I"m already maxed out for the circuit.:pimp:

Pic 1: the top
Pic 2: A couple lower buds,.. tric production seems to be better on the lower buds for some reason? :wtf:

[khyberkitsune]

2-3 weeks before you're finished, must be a short-time strain. I've still got another 6 1/2 to go. It still looks nice.

As for trich production on the bottom, blue light penetrates better than red light (higher-energy wavelength) and it seems wavelengths in the blue play a major role in trichome production.

"how do I get ahold of you for a test array"

my skype, yahoo, and AIM names are available on the right side of each of my posts, click on the icons. Alternatively, if those don't work, the nickname for all three services is khyberkitsune, same as my name here, or you can e-mail me at techkitsune at gmail dot com.

[canniwhatsis]

2-3 weeks before you're finished, must be a short-time strain. I've still got another 6 1/2 to go. It still looks nice.

As for trich production on the bottom, blue light penetrates better than red light (higher-energy wavelength) and it seems wavelengths in the blue play a major role in trichome production.

"how do I get ahold of you for a test array"

my skype, yahoo, and AIM names are available on the right side of each of my posts, click on the icons. Alternatively, if those don't work, the nickname for all three services is khyberkitsune, same as my name here, or you can e-mail me at techkitsune at gmail dot com.



As far as the time left, I don't really know, it's my first grow, but if it's what its supposed to be then yeah, I shouldn't have much time left.


I'm flowering under 400w HPS "plantmax" bulb in a 33x 60" space,... I'm not on Skype Yahoo or anything really,... but I am interested in LED's there's just too much potential there, it's just seeing the proof of the pudding that I hesitate on.


Also,... what about veging under LED? :wtf: I'm limited to the # plants I can have, so I don't want to waste space and as such have tomato's peppers, lettuce, and such growing as an indoor crop.

[khyberkitsune]

Veg under LED is where LED really shines, IMHO. This is where the claims of "90w LED = 400w HPS" are actually true. I have done much vegging under LED, and the results are just incredible.

For example - here are some pepper shots, day 1, 5, 9, 13, under 90w LED

There's a tomato on the other side, the next post will have shots of that in veg.

[khyberkitsune]

As promised, the tomato veg shots, same day spans, same 90w light!

[canniwhatsis]

Nice! :thumbsup:

[seventhchild]

As for trich production on the bottom, blue light penetrates better than red light (higher-energy wavelength) and it seems wavelengths in the blue play a major role in trichome production.

confused about this. red and blue are present at the top of the plant but at the bottom there is far less red?if this is so than shouldn't you say the presence of red inhibits trich production or that the lack of red allows trich production to be more fully expressed? I'm not an LED user yet but am very curious about the interaction of the different spectrums.I flower under a HPS but ripen[the last few weeks] with a MH.

[khyberkitsune]

"red and blue are present at the top of the plant but at the bottom there is far less red"

Pretty much, yes. Near the bottom of the plant, white buckets have way more of a blue glow versus red.

"if this is so than shouldn't you say the presence of red inhibits trich production"

No, because red has no inhibitory role in plant growth. The primary purpose of red is to produce flowers and fruits, plus some photosynthesis.

"or that the lack of red allows trich production to be more fully expressed?"

Again, no, because trichome development is ALMOST entirely dependent upon how much potentially damaging radiation the plant receives during flowering, and red radiation isn't damaging enough. The more blue you add, the better. That's incidentally why you finish off with MH, the blue makes it better. It also adds more bulk since blue is responsible for most actual growth and bulk production.

[seventhchild]

thank you for the detailed response it does help me to understand but some more questions if i may?if red neither helps or hinders trich production but it is mostly dependent on the blue why have red during the final weeks of the plants life? also there is more blue at the top of the plant- shouldn't there be more trichs up there also? BTW beautiful plants khyberkitsune

[khyberkitsune]

thank you for the detailed response it does help me to understand but some more questions if i may?if red neither helps or hinders trich production but it is mostly dependent on the blue why have red during the final weeks of the plants life? also there is more blue at the top of the plant- shouldn't there be more trichs up there also? BTW beautiful plants khyberkitsune

Red is there for mostly photosynthesis after flowering has begun. Red is more efficient for photosynthesis than blue and thus keeping it in steady supply is considered crucial to a proper yield.

There are more trichomes closer to the top than at the bottom.

[khyberkitsune]

Week 5 beginning! Let's have a look before I go changing nutes!

[khyberkitsune]

Since my blue-dominant flowering test finished, I took those two 15w spots out, put them on clamp mounts, and I'm using those to cover the undercanopy.

This will do a fair job of increasing my yield for very little power.

[khyberkitsune]

Week 5 ending! These colas are beginning to swell and really really smell!

I also have excellent progress on the 9 pack in the Krusty under the 50w, plus great results under the 50w. I must say though, the larger panels definitely put out better buds.

Oh well, that just means I need to design a heat sink that will allow me to cram 150w into a 50w panel. :) Can't use solid aluminum, might need a composite. Hmm...

Besides that, plenty of milky goodness all over the place. Trichomes are fairly dense and clouded. No signs of any amber as of yet, but that will likely change in about two weeks.

[codkiller05]

hey bro, i bought and now using 120 watt triband led light (119leds 1 watt each) they claim its a 600 watt equivenlent, so far with your grow do you feel the leds are worth the effort?
i also have a 430 watt hps 3 feet beside it.

[khyberkitsune]

hey bro, i bought and now using 120 watt triband led light (119leds 1 watt each) they claim its a 600 watt equivenlent, so far with your grow do you feel the leds are worth the effort?
i also have a 430 watt hps 3 feet beside it.

In veg phase, 120w LED=600w HPS is a decent claim to make. For flowering, not so good a claim to make, it's more like 300w LED=600w HPS.

So far, now that I fixed my airflow problem, yes, the LEDs are doing a great job and I most definitely see them having been worth the effort.

[adamrichnorml]

i need some advice on a system i am putting together im gonna be using a complete hydroponic system and i have purchased 4 led panels with a wave length reading of Red: 640nm Blue: 460nm they are 56w each units do you think these will produce a positive result or should i step out and purchase another few panels and make it a 400w plus system? store information shows the comparable to a 400hps but ive only grown under hps -mh systems so im nervous about my purchase i hope an honest opinion or some knowledge will reassure me with my decision to move with the future of lighting and it makes my pockets cry much less at utilites time

[khyberkitsune]

i need some advice on a system i am putting together im gonna be using a complete hydroponic system and i have purchased 4 led panels with a wave length reading of Red: 640nm Blue: 460nm they are 56w each units do you think these will produce a positive result or should i step out and purchase another few panels and make it a 400w plus system? store information shows the comparable to a 400hps but ive only grown under hps -mh systems so im nervous about my purchase i hope an honest opinion or some knowledge will reassure me with my decision to move with the future of lighting and it makes my pockets cry much less at utilites time

I think this would depend on the type of panel. You said 56w, the only 56w panel that I'm aware of uses tail-through 'lite-brite' diodes. While these panels will work, they won't work as well as a panel using SMT diodes, which will output much brighter at the same power draw. Also, you'll have to keep those panels further away from your plants so to allow the light to combine and cover the plant evenly.

Total 224 watts of LED. Well, if you do everything right, you should match a 400w HPS or MH without too much of a problem.

[Kirker]

So are you using 2 different lights or strengths from veg to flower??

:rastasmoke:

[khyberkitsune]

So are you using 2 different lights or strengths from veg to flower??

:rastasmoke:

I'm using pretty much the same panel all the way through. For the larger plants, I added a couple of screw-in LED spotlights to help cover some of the undercanopy and get more production down there.

[khyberkitsune]

Week 7 begins. Would have posted on Saturday but the forums were down.

More pics coming.

[khyberkitsune]

More pics :D The last two are the 9 and 5-clone buckets under 50w panels. The 9 bucket still has about 6 weeks or so to go, the 5 bucket maybe 4.

About two weeks left for the main stuff!

[khyberkitsune]

I had to get a size comparison shot for everyone, so I used my D-cell flashlight.

Flashlight-sized cola. Not bad for a dense mother plant. The other colas are so heavy (and the branches so thin) that they lay out like a carpet almost.

Microscopic views show lots of cloudy, and some amber starting to pop up. Looks like I'll be on-time for harvest at the end of week 9 instead of week 10. I'll start the flush on Sunday.

[Kirker]

I think this would depend on the type of panel. You said 56w, the only 56w panel that I'm aware of uses tail-through 'lite-brite' diodes. While these panels will work, they won't work as well as a panel using SMT diodes, which will output much brighter at the same power draw.

If one were shopping for LED lighting, what would look for or ask for or otherwise be aware of to ensure they were getting "SMT diodes"?? Also, are there LED panels that lean either way by design to either the blue or red ends of the color spectrum?? Lastly, I hear things like "tri-band" and "UFO" and "muti-band" (or something) and such, any English translations??

:rastasmoke:

[khyberkitsune]

If one were shopping for LED lighting, what would look for or ask for or otherwise be aware of to ensure they were getting "SMT diodes"?? Also, are there LED panels that lean either way by design to either the blue or red ends of the color spectrum?? Lastly, I hear things like "tri-band" and "UFO" and "muti-band" (or something) and such, any English translations??

:rastasmoke:

It's easy to tell a surface-mounted diode. They're the only type used in quality panels. Any UFO panel is using SMD (SMT is surface-mount technology, SMD is surface-mount diode) and thus you have a panel using SMT. SMT is the class of technology, SMD is a type of that tech. Cell phones are one example of things that use a lot of SMT, laptops are another.

In my personal opinion, avoid white diodes in any panel. Quad band versus tri-band, as far as I've seen there's no notable difference, and I've really seen no difference versus panels that add UV or IR to the mix. Avoid 7:1:1 ratios like the plague (panels that lean too heavily towards red,) you want panels with more balance. Don't get greater than 120 degree beam angle, and don't get narrower than 45 degree unless you're wanting to focus all of your power into a narrow space for a small amount of larger plants.

tri-band means three specific wavelengths are targeted. UFO is just a sort of light that's round and was called the UFO light originally.

If you go for blue-heavy panels, make sure blue is no higher than 60% of the overall amount of light. You still need red for flowering.

happy growing!

[neceros]

Can't wait until LEDs are good at flowering. I really hate HID.

[khyberkitsune]

Can't wait until LEDs are good at flowering. I really hate HID.

They're good enough for flowering as-is. I've got colas so heavy on one of my mother plants that that one proud-standing cola next to the flashlight in a prior pic has finally fallen over as well.

Rock hard, not fluffy.

Just depends on how deep you want to flower.

[Kirker]

Avoid 7:1:1 ratios like the plague (panels that lean too heavily towards red,) you want panels with more balance.

If you go for blue-heavy panels, make sure blue is no higher than 60% of the overall amount of light. You still need red for flowering.

happy growing!

Wow, lots of info there :stoned:

Could you discuss this ratio(s) and your definition of balance??

Also, could you explain the thinking on the 2nd point, I mean if LED's are weaker at flowering wouldn't you want MORE red????? :wtf:

:thumbsup: I ask because I'm interested...LED's have some serious safety advantages it seems :)

[khyberkitsune]

I did a check under the microscope. They're about 15% amber and totally cloudy the rest of the way, so I've done a pre-trim for tomorrow's harvest.

9-10 week strain, finished in 8 weeks 2 days.

The biggest plant had colas so heavy that we had issues trimming the fan leaves off of her. We'd get her stood up and supported, get about half the leaves off one cola, and the plant would flop in the opposite direction. This went on about eight different times with this plant.

And these babies are ULTRA frosty.

[khyberkitsune]

Wow, lots of info there :stoned:

Could you discuss this ratio(s) and your definition of balance??

Also, could you explain the thinking on the 2nd point, I mean if LED's are weaker at flowering wouldn't you want MORE red????? :wtf:

:thumbsup: I ask because I'm interested...LED's have some serious safety advantages it seems :)

I've run tests under blue-dominant LED lighting and have found no major difference in mass, just in trichome density.

The ratio I cannot discuss too much as it's a result of my company research. Needless to say I emulate the sun as closely as I can with the few wavelengths I use.

You want a good deal of red, yes, but you want blue for bulk production, and also blue penetrates better than red. Blue light is what is responsible for powering a majority of growth processes. Red is responsible for powering flower development. Notice how the blue poor panels tend to produce fluffy buds in most grow attempts? Once you put major power like 300w into the equation that's not too much of an issue but still part of the problem. My fresh pre-trim stuff is hard. I can thump it and it makes a decent sound against my fingernail.

The safety advantages abound, indeed. Near-nil IR signature, no UV (none required with my design anyways,) higher efficiencies at lower power, no burning parts, safe to spray treatments without fear of burning plants while lights are on, less stress on your electrical system due to lowered energy requirements from both lighting and through reduced cooling requirements.

Other advantages include customizability, ease of installation, compact size, some models lack external ballasts (some lights require them,) lifespan, and quiet operation. Then power savings are nice as well.

Oh, and avoid the hype of 90w = 400w HPS - that's only true for the vegetative phase. When you hit flowering, minimum 200w to match 400w HPS.

[khyberkitsune]

Hanging up to dry. I'm estimating about 3oz dry.

[krazyken]

You reap what you grow! :smokin:

Ken:thumbsup:

[booboo2]

Hello!

Just joined the forums and I've been reading lots of journals etc. I was sold on a PC Case with CFL's but now I'm thinking LEDs might be the way to go for heat reasons etc. It's hot where I live (Florida) and my place is small and my A/C is never below 75. So here are my questions.

Will this UFO:
High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52466)

Work in this cabinet?:

IKEA | Workspace storage | Drawer units | HELMER | Drawer unit on casters (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40107872)

Width: 11 "
Depth: 16 3/4 "
Height: 27 1/8 "

So slightly more roomy than a pc (certainly taller). I saw your micro grow outgrow your pc case is why I ask.



My goal is for personal use ONLY for my wife and I. I plan to use soil (square pots) and will use scrog or LST, I'll start with auto flowering stuff like easyrider. If my case/light suggestions are retarded please say so and any options/opinions are welcome! I'd like 1 LED light that will go from seed to harvest if that's realistic. Looking at the Ikea cab so it's stealth (matches the cab my wife uses for crafts) and our entire apt is only 600+ sq feet so it's gotta be small.




ps. I have never grown anything but my hair.


Thank you for all of your help and I'll be following your journals for sure! Once I figure it all out I'll do a journal too.

[khyberkitsune]

I've used HTG lights - not the right spectrum. I'll go ahead and say I am biased since I run my own horticultural LED company, but from personal testing with HTG (I used them almost exclusively before I went my own route, so no disrespect to them,) their tri-band can't compete with mine. There is a reason they are selling theirs for so cheap.

HTG also says they have a PHD recommending their spectrum, yet they will *NEVER* give the person's name nor any published papers, not even a doctoral thesis. This alone tells me to stay away. I'll tell you off the bat I have only a GED and an incomplete college education, but I've been growing plants for over two decades, and in college i supplemented that with optical physics. I also have a MAJOR background in semiconductor electronics and thus I've got way more of an advantage versus a PHD in a purely horticultural field, as they have no idea what makes a diode do what it does.

My no-BS attitude and admissions are what got me a director of research position for a multi-national corporate conglomerate. I'm one of the few people on this planet that can produce useful crops with no light at all. Let's see any other lighting company provide that.

My job is to put people in space. What is the competition doing to provide such a future for mankind?

[canniwhatsis]

My job is to put people in space.

:jointsmile: Reps bro,... Check'em;):jointsmile:

[booboo2]

Thanks for the feedback! So what lights would you recommend then? What brand? Link to where I can buy? Is 90w enough for my space? You used 50w in a smaller space and thought it was overkill in your pc right? Thanks again for sharing your expertise.

[khyberkitsune]

Thanks for the feedback! So what lights would you recommend then? What brand? Link to where I can buy? Is 90w enough for my space? You used 50w in a smaller space and thought it was overkill in your pc right? Thanks again for sharing your expertise.

Let's remove myself from the equation.

The lights that perform like mine have been customized by members of this board - Weezard, Stra8outtaweed, etc. They're on par with what works. We all aim to make LED a viable solution without all the marketing hype and nonsense.

In my PC case, I had not enough airflow and the rising heat caused major pH swings. I think I would have been okay had I been able to keep the temps down inside the case. A single 120mm just wasn't cutting it after I started flowering, I really needed an intake and exhaust fan, not just an intake.

A 90w panel would barely fit inside that case and would likely provide some thermal management issues. A 50w panel would be better, just on the square footage area alone (1.28 square foot footprint.)

Any further questions, we're happy to help you!

[neceros]

Here's a question: Why a PC case? I don't quite see the advantages.

[booboo2]

People use pc case for stealth... But I've moved away from that idea and found the ikea cabinet that provides more room and will be even more stealth in my place.

@khyberkitsune are you saying the 90w is too much for the ikea cab? Or that it would have been too much for your case you used. I plan to install two 80mm fans, 1 in 1 out.

I am not finding any 50w panels that are commercially available with good reviews/grow journal proof. The htg 90w comes highly reccomended on other boards is why it has my attention.

Any better products out there you can link me to?

[khyberkitsune]

People use pc case for stealth... But I've moved away from that idea and found the ikea cabinet that provides more room and will be even more stealth in my place.

@khyberkitsune are you saying the 90w is too much for the ikea cab? Or that it would have been too much for your case you used. I plan to install two 80mm fans, 1 in 1 out.

I am not finding any 50w panels that are commercially available with good reviews/grow journal proof. The htg 90w comes highly reccomended on other boards is why it has my attention.

Any better products out there you can link me to?

I'm just saying the 90w would barely fit in your case. It would fit, but a couple of sides will have blocked airflow due to the one narrow dimension.

Two 80mm fans might work if you've got the airflow set.

I've had plenty of good results so far with LED. I do artificially limit myself with a very basic and slightly incomplete nutrient mix, so I don't pull massive yields, but if I eliminated that minor detail and used more than just FloraMicro and FloraBloom, I would pull much better yields.

If you want my exact panel, specified by me, you'll have to get it from the ecogroled website.

I used to use HTG almost exclusively, FYI. Good stuff except for the LED panels.

[khyberkitsune]

Buds clipped from stems, one more day of drying out and then it's jar time.

Before de-stemming, 70g. After, 41g. So less than two ounces of buds.

I'm still waiting on the sugar leaf to finish drying so I have a final yield from that, and I need to hash up the fan leaves that I saved due to the stems being coated in trichomes.

Final weight results coming.

Have a macro shot while we wait!

[neceros]

Looks yummy.

[canniwhatsis]

Looks yummy.

Time will tell. ;)

[khyberkitsune]

Time will tell. ;)

It was quite delicious, and also, it was quite rapidly GONE, as a friend liked it so much he traded me my entire crop for a full QP of GDP, plus tons of fresh genetics that he's spent several years getting stabilized.

I still have the krusty bucket going - the central cola is just HUGE, about 15-18 inches.

8 clones was definitely too much - looks like 4 clones per approximate square foot is the max.

And as soon as I'm done with this bucket (or maybe before) I'm pushing my NFT system into the closet. I finally got my channels, and lids, and I've been busy getting them prepped for use. Pic included!

[khyberkitsune]

One clone was too weak, and had to be pulled out. The central cola is so heavy that it fell towards the blank spot, which I don't mind as that leaves more room for the other colas.

Now I know 4 is about the best I can do in a bucket that size.

The central cola is so huge, it is 15 inches tall from the bottom buds to the top. The bottom is about as wide as my fist bud-wise, and the tip is almost 50% larger than the width of my thumb.

I can't wait. Once this has been pulled, I'm going to have 5 NFT channels in there. I'll do a rotation with these, as well.

I think I can squeeze 5 channels into a 4 gallon bucket. I just need to do some creative lid work.

[canniwhatsis]

I'd really like to see some good genetics under the LED's for bloom. I've heard that HID buds are fatter and more productive, and the ghetto genetics make it look that much worse. :(


I'm using the 120w panel I got from you in my veg area, and it rocks! I have a patient now, and might be ordering another panel if everything else falls in line.:thumbsup::jointsmile:


Pic 1: My tomato under LED!
Pic 2: HID Blueberry day 27.

[khyberkitsune]

I'd really like to see some good genetics under the LED's for bloom. I've heard that HID buds are fatter and more productive, and the ghetto genetics make it look that much worse. :(


I'm using the 120w panel I got from you in my veg area, and it rocks! I have a patient now, and might be ordering another panel if everything else falls in line.:thumbsup::jointsmile:


Pic 1: My tomato under LED!
Pic 2: HID Blueberry day 27.

The panels most certainly rock hard during veg. I've got a new box that will soon become a new flowering chamber once the current plants in the box recover from the nasty heat wave we had this week.

BTW nice flower on the tomato plant. Looks rather large. Nice buds, too.

[Prodaytrader]

I'm not sure where best to talk with you about your LED experience. I wonder if you could sum up where your at in LED tech right now. You can keep the science in ur head as I trust your the expert. What I want is your opinion on what to be looking for if I were to go the LED route. I live in a place where heat is a bad issue about 8 months out of the year. I am also growing in a confined place which has a 4' vertical limit as I also choose to clone and raise mothers lower down in the same place. For now the system is stable, but man oh man is my electric bill a bitch. I have to run ac to the space nearly 24 hours a day, exhaust fans, duct fans, all of it to cool off my 600 watt HPS.

Having grown with vegged with T5's for a few months, I'm starting to really appreciate the benefits of lower heat and less electricity. I'd like to see about replacing my 600hps with either T5's or LED's for flowering too, but I'm too afraid I wouldn't replicate what I have or at least close to it. I probably have too much light given the space, which is 2x3x36-40" (which is max height I will let them get). I know both tech's tend not to radiate light which IMO makes them all the better suited for situations where you have a limited floor space footprint.

Are LED's still cost prohibitive for the average Joe? Which paths should I be researching. Maybe T5's are the better solution since I know enough about them to create them from scratch and I know they are nearly as cheap as LED's and likely nearly as effective.

[canniwhatsis]

I'm not sure where best to talk with you about your LED experience. I wonder if you could sum up where your at in LED tech right now. You can keep the science in ur head as I trust your the expert. What I want is your opinion on what to be looking for if I were to go the LED route. I live in a place where heat is a bad issue about 8 months out of the year. I am also growing in a confined place which has a 4' vertical limit as I also choose to clone and raise mothers lower down in the same place. For now the system is stable, but man oh man is my electric bill a bitch. I have to run ac to the space nearly 24 hours a day, exhaust fans, duct fans, all of it to cool off my 600 watt HPS.

Having grown with vegged with T5's for a few months, I'm starting to really appreciate the benefits of lower heat and less electricity. I'd like to see about replacing my 600hps with either T5's or LED's for flowering too, but I'm too afraid I wouldn't replicate what I have or at least close to it. I probably have too much light given the space, which is 2x3x36-40" (which is max height I will let them get). I know both tech's tend not to radiate light which IMO makes them all the better suited for situations where you have a limited floor space footprint.

Are LED's still cost prohibitive for the average Joe? Which paths should I be researching. Maybe T5's are the better solution since I know enough about them to create them from scratch and I know they are nearly as cheap as LED's and likely nearly as effective.


I'm using LED for veging, since that's where it really rocks out:cool: The 120w LED certainly whooped up on the 400w Hortilux "Blue" MH I was running. the peppers STOPED stretching, the MJ slowed down on the stretch, and tightened up node spacing. So at least for veg, I'd agree with the statement of 120w LED = 600w HID.

I'd say looking at your setup in your log that the LED's would be fine for the area your flowering. I'm flowering about the same size space, (taller ceiling and a foot longer 33x53x72") under only 400w HPS I'm not packing plants in there like that, but there isn't much room for sure. Heat isn't as much an issue as I'm sure your having, but it's enough that I'm air cooling my light, I can get my hand about 2" away before I really start feeling heat, but the LED I can actually touch the glass (Not that I recommend it, but I had to try! :stoned: ) and only feel warmth! :rastasmoke:

I haven't tried flowering under LED, might do a side by side sometime in the future depending on how things pan out. I've heard that LED produces smaller/denser buds than HID, some consider it a good thing. At least one local grower I've spoken to say's it's more about better quality vs higher quantity.


As for price,... expect to pay around $300-350 for something to replace your 600,... and prices for the even larger panels (1000w equivalent) I've heard can verge on 1k! :eek: It's spendy, but figure the life span is several times longer, and power use is considerably less.

[Prodaytrader]

so 120 input watts is about the size of a 400 watt hps give or take. I understand the math may be fuzzy for this discussion.

Next question: do you change the spectrum around or just stick with 3000k. Do LED's even have a color temperature similar to T5's or HPS? Besides the color what type or size LED is best to consider, or does the 120watt figure pretty much assume a certain LED size? I keep hearing different stuff about 3 watt lED's vs 1 Watt. Just not sure what to look for in the actual LED itself, not that I intend to build it, I just want to make sure whatever fixture I pick has the right LED inside and the right colors.

[canniwhatsis]

There I can't help you, I'm no tech, just reporting my opinion and limited experience.

I've heard the 3w LED's are better than 1w, and anything less than 1w is junk no matter how many they pack in there. Something to do with the spread of the light emission too. But again, I'm not a tech and this is pretty much just hearsay.

As far as the spectrum, not certain here (not a tech guru), but they only emit one wavelength of light per LED, so it's not really a ??whatever??k light. It's 660 nanometer or 430nm or whatever, per any given LED.

The one I have has 3 bandwidths of light,(red, red/orange, and blue) and to the human eye seems purple. Plants look black under it. Any problems seem to magnify, a slightly yellowed leaf under HID looks white under LED and is easy to spot. Again tho, this is just my experience after the first 2 weeks under LED for veg.


Perhaps Kitsune can help enlighten as to more detail there. The exact science would be interesting to know.

[khyberkitsune]

Sorry I haven't been around. I'm working on new panels with 100w diodes in them and :D I had to go to the optometrist to get special temporary glasses because my dumb ass stared at it for too long. I'm better now!

Anyways, for me, I'm perfectly content with what gets grown under my LEDs. Right now, the tech is most certainly out there and surpassing T5 units as long as they are properly configured. Poor configuration = poor performance. Don't count on HID being 'out' just yet, as we're still waiting on 150+ lux/w outside of the lab.

For now, at the current level of LED tech, 300w LED ~= 600w HID for flowering/fruiting. 120w LED ~= 600w HID for veg. As long as you distribute it around and keep your plants smaller, you can actually yield more as you've got more canopy of cola.

In fact, I'm about to take maximum advantage of that sort of situation in my growing area - I've just finished working on a new SoG system. Here is a picture for you.

Overall, LED is pretty much 'there.' but you have to find the right people that know what they're doing. Once the tech gets good enough, any Joe Schmoe can pick up a white panel and grow whatever they wish better than an HID.

And Canna's correct, there is no 'color temperature' to speak of. If you wanted a relative value, 12,000K minimum minus green is a good approximation.

[daddaj]

do you think if a plant gets to much light it will turn leaves white and die.i had lites at 14 inches away is that to close

[khyberkitsune]

do you think if a plant gets to much light it will turn leaves white and die.i had lites at 14 inches away is that to close


Yes, that is called light bleaching, and typically that only happens with HID lamps. As to the distance, that depends on the light that you're using.

[khyberkitsune]

It only took just a few days for everything to go from cloudy to about 30% amber so it's chop time!

Oh yes, nice HEAVY buds.

The biggest one, from the beginning of the bud to the tip, is 14 inches long, average two inches across.

Best harvest yet and still improving! Everything so far has been mostly testing and experimentation, now the NFT setup is ready to roll and I should be producing spears like this non-stop, I just need to get clones going.

Also, I have a new mother plant, GDP. Looks like I'll be mixing up my batches, two rows of HS and two rows of GDP.

[canniwhatsis]

I certainly hope your GDP is better than mine was! My indoor girls have been hermi prone and low yielders. My outdoor plant is almost 6' tall and about 3 weeks into bud, No hermi's so far and it might be ok,... if it follows the indoor plants for yield, I'd say 1/2lb harvest late october. (cutting really close to the first freeze where I'm at! :eek: )

I've culled the strain due to hermi mom, but I've got lots of beans and am going to try it again from seed. It's not a high yield, but it packs a punch for what it gives you,... and my "crummy" harvests have garnered me 2 patients now! :cool:


I'm veging under the 120w LED I got from you, tho most of the plants had several months under HID before I switched. I"m watching my new Durban clone to see exactly what the LED does vs HID (I've veged plenty of clones under HID, and know how they act) So far I like it! :thumbsup:


I'll be watching for the GDP grow. :D

[khyberkitsune]

I certainly hope your GDP is better than mine was! My indoor girls have been hermi prone and low yielders. My outdoor plant is almost 6' tall and about 3 weeks into bud, No hermi's so far and it might be ok,... if it follows the indoor plants for yield, I'd say 1/2lb harvest late october. (cutting really close to the first freeze where I'm at! :eek: )

I've culled the strain due to hermi mom, but I've got lots of beans and am going to try it again from seed. It's not a high yield, but it packs a punch for what it gives you,... and my "crummy" harvests have garnered me 2 patients now! :cool:


I'm veging under the 120w LED I got from you, tho most of the plants had several months under HID before I switched. I"m watching my new Durban clone to see exactly what the LED does vs HID (I've veged plenty of clones under HID, and know how they act) So far I like it! :thumbsup:


I'll be watching for the GDP grow. :D

Oh yes, as soon as this clone becomes mom-ready it's on. That will be a couple of weeks, so I'm going to go ahead and get some fresh clones of the HS rooting out while I wait.

And I have these two clones that have rooted. Dunno what to do with them yet. Might drop in a small bucket. Might redo that Krusty Bucket right fast and just do two clones under 50w LED in that bucket.

[khyberkitsune]

Well, turns out the clones I got have spidermites. Time for a pyrethrum spray and then double-up with a dichlorvos strip.

[canniwhatsis]

That Sux man! Hope they didn't get on anything else you have going. :(

[khyberkitsune]

That Sux man! Hope they didn't get on anything else you have going. :(

Nope, just only on the clones I had procured. My Hindu moms in soil are fine, so far (I went over them with a magnifying glass last night.)

[TurboNugs]

Well this thread is making me a lil freaked....story.. Me and good friend that lives up the street are both growing...an we made a "friendly bet" for yields. I'm using a single cooltube with a 600w hps hort-blue and six plants...he has 4 25 watt all red led 1x1 panels, a 2 6 band "blue/red" 1x1 panels. He's also waiting on his 250w 6 band panel. He's got six going into flower also.

I thinking im gonna get my ass handed to me....LOL

Oh well it's all good fun:thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

"he has 4 25 watt all red led 1x1 panels, a 2 6 band "blue/red" 1x1 panels. He's also waiting on his 250w 6 band panel. I thinking im gonna get my ass handed to me....LOL"

I doubt it will happen. 6 band is a waste, proven time and time again (my tri-bands beat out same-power quad-bands all day, in fact my prototype quad band with white got its ass 100% handed back to it by my tri-band of the same power.) I'll also be willing to bet that there is a severe imbalance between the reds and blues, so the actual bulk production is going to be severely affected as well, especially with those 'lite-brite' 1x1 panels. Those are only good for light veg/supplementary flowering.

[theemurr]

Hi Khyber - this looks like a sweet setup - I have been looking into LED lights for a while now, as I want to start my first grow and it seems that if I can get hold of the right ones, they would be a perfect option. I am looking at starting with 3 plants in a cupboard, haven't got all the specifics yet, but would most likely build a little cab or something, and use LST or ScrOG. I have been looking at your EGL 90 UFO, I have e-mailed for information as I am in the UK, however I just wanted your opinion on whether this would be sufficient for 3 plants? If not what supplements/alternatives would you recommend?

Thanks!

[khyberkitsune]

Hi Khyber - this looks like a sweet setup - I have been looking into LED lights for a while now, as I want to start my first grow and it seems that if I can get hold of the right ones, they would be a perfect option. I am looking at starting with 3 plants in a cupboard, haven't got all the specifics yet, but would most likely build a little cab or something, and use LST or ScrOG. I have been looking at your EGL 90 UFO, I have e-mailed for information as I am in the UK, however I just wanted your opinion on whether this would be sufficient for 3 plants? If not what supplements/alternatives would you recommend?

Thanks!

As long as you keep them short, I don't see why a 90w wouldn't work for 3 plants. I'm working with multiple mothers and clones in a tiny box with a 90w panel.

I just started up a new batch, get ready for a new pic!

[khyberkitsune]

The NFT setup is underway!

9 clones of Hindu Skunk. Going to cut fresh clones and get ready for the next batch in two weeks

http://imgur.com/P8xg6l.jpg

[khyberkitsune]

Day 3!

http://imgur.com/IDQhjl.jpg

[khyberkitsune]

Day 5!

http://imgur.com/gjxaPl.jpg

[canniwhatsis]

:D Looking good!

[khyberkitsune]

The clones have gotten large enough that I can go ahead and put foam collars around them to keep them upright in the channels. Using tiny rooting plugs + big insertion holes = lots of wiggle and fall room. I want these to stay upright and not fall all over the place!

http://imgur.com/3BBAKl.jpg

Anybody else having issues with uploading pics to the site, recently? I've been having to use imgur to get pictures to post here.

[canniwhatsis]

I've been loading them to Albums in my User panel and using the BB code to link em to the treads. They load to this site just fine that way, tho it does re-size them and you can't zoom in, which SUX because I've got some lovely trichome shots if you can zoom in a little. :(

[khyberkitsune]

I've been loading them to Albums in my User panel and using the BB code to link em to the treads. They load to this site just fine that way, tho it does re-size them and you can't zoom in, which SUX because I've got some lovely trichome shots if you can zoom in a little. :(

I just continually encounter 'uploading error' on the site. No matter where on this site I go to try to upload a picture, it has been failing for the past week.

[khyberkitsune]

Day 7!! Plus regular light pic.

http://imgur.com/nIkh3l.jpg

http://imgur.com/5mhGel.jpg

[khyberkitsune]

Day 9!

http://imgur.com/knf0Jl.jpg

[khyberkitsune]

Day 11 today! Pic coming soon, just another 25 or so minutes until the lights come on!

[khyberkitsune]

http://imgur.com/Ur6oil.jpg

There we go! Day 11

[khyberkitsune]

Moved from one bucket per two channels to one larger reservoir per four channels. I also added a water level meter.

http://imgur.com/EM7n9l.jpg

http://imgur.com/2zvqel.jpg

[jdcha1]

hey kitsune I just bought the 120W LED panel from HTG (High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=53987))

After reading this thread I feel like I've made a bad investment. I was going to supplement it with 3 or 4 42W CFLs (a mix of daylight and warm white). What do you think?

I heard you say that blue heavy spectrums are ideal. Should I buy another LED panel/ufo to supplement? Which would you suggest?

What are your thoughts on the orange spectrum? Is it useless like HTG says it is?

Thanks!

[jdcha1]

What do you think about adding a 90w UFO ALL BLUE to the HTGsupply 120W LED?

[khyberkitsune]

hey kitsune I just bought the 120W LED panel from HTG (High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=53987))

After reading this thread I feel like I've made a bad investment. I was going to supplement it with 3 or 4 42W CFLs (a mix of daylight and warm white). What do you think?

I heard you say that blue heavy spectrums are ideal. Should I buy another LED panel/ufo to supplement? Which would you suggest?

What are your thoughts on the orange spectrum? Is it useless like HTG says it is?

Thanks!

I feel I must make a disclaimer here for you - I am a light designer. I am going to be biased towards my lights but I do know of other brands that can compete very well alongside my own. I'm not afraid to recommend them, either, but only as an alternative to mine. I don't drop my site on here, I don't wish to disrespect the place by advertising my site. If I want to advertise, I'll drop a bit of $$$ on an actual ad on the top banner or something, then point you out to it.

With that being said, supplementing with CFL will work, though I would suggest supplementing with higher color-temp bulbs, 5,000-6,500K as the red-heavy panel is going to provide the most photon flux for the flowering hormones to do their job. The panel is great for PROMOTING flowering, but for actual flower production, it doesn't perform to my standards.


What do you think about adding a 90w UFO ALL BLUE to the HTGsupply 120W LED?

I think you would be wasting your time unless the strain you were growing was known-good for hash production, as excessive blue imbalance will trigger great trichome production at a lower flowering production due to the imbalance - you may get higher quality but you'll get drasticaly reduced yield. Higher blues do produce more THC-bearing trichomes, but the problem is that without a good balance of red, you get pretty cruddy results as there isn't enough energy for the flowering hormone to be active in any great amount. Balance is important. This is the biggest failing of most LED panels, as Stra8outtaweed or Weezard will tell you. They use more balanced combos of red/blue, and even in dual band, Weezard gets great results, almost comparable to my tri-band blend, VERY impressive results from his dichroics. I almost want to make a super-powered LED emitter with his particular dichroic blend (if we could make the individual emitters the same voltage and amperage so they could be all put into the same emitter package,) and call it the Weezard light. I'd donate 20% of any profits to him continuing to build better lights, the man is that incredible and inspirational and his own personal tinkering should be encouraged much more. If you want to learn about DIY LED, that is the man you want to talk to, not me. Stra8 is another good source of manufactured LED panels, and he's using higher-powered diodes than I am, for now.

On the other hand, if you wanted to learn about DIY micro guitar amps, I'm the guy to chat with! :D

http://imgur.com/tYVEml.jpg

Here's a simple overdrive amp using two capacitors, a couple of 1/4" stereo barrels, and a pre-amp chip. Off a 9v battery it can crank up to a 15" speaker cabinet. Best used in conjunction with a heavier overdrive or light distortion pedal for crunch, or standalone in a clean driven amp for an AC/DC sound (assuming you don't have sucky pickups.)

[jdcha1]

Hey I'm a bit confused about the balance. Are you saying that you could have a perfectly good LED configuration and then add some more red light or blue light and reduce your yields because of the balance even though you have even more wattage? What is the preferred Blue to Red? I know that str8outtaweed's WEX-C150 has like 20% blues while the ones at your site has 40% blues. Why wouldn't simply supplementing blues work?

Also what is the difference between more expensive LED sets and cheaper ones if 660nm is 660nm and 1 watt diode is a 1 watt diode and a 120 degree beam is... you know what I mean.

[khyberkitsune]

Hey I'm a bit confused about the balance. Are you saying that you could have a perfectly good LED configuration and then add some more red light or blue light and reduce your yields because of the balance even though you have even more wattage? What is the preferred Blue to Red? I know that str8outtaweed's WEX-C150 has like 20% blues while the ones at your site has 40% blues. Why wouldn't simply supplementing blues work?

Also what is the difference between more expensive LED sets and cheaper ones if 660nm is 660nm and 1 watt diode is a 1 watt diode and a 120 degree beam is... you know what I mean.

The balance of light is essential to ensure that all processes proceed at a nominal rate and not outpace the other processes.

The difference between diodes is very similar to the difference between liquors on different shelves. 'Top shelf' liquor is usually the high-quality stuff, and 'bottom-shelf' stuff is usually garbage. Same thing applies to diodes. Not all diodes are created equal.

[khyberkitsune]

Few hours difference won't make much of a difference, so I went ahead and put the rooted clones into the second channel!

http://imgur.com/kMIpjl.jpg

http://imgur.com/VU55vl.jpg

[jdcha1]

Kitsune,

Thanks for the valuable info. I really appreciate your time.

If I bought one of your 120w panels and used it in conjunction with my 120w HTG panel, would that screw up the balance?

I think I see what you're saying. Too much red, for instance, can cause stretching that would outpace the utilization of blue and thus the cell's resources would be utilized towards different metabolic processes?

BTW have you seen 206's grow with the 120W HTG LED? It was mega-FAIL 120W LED + Rainforest 66 + Papaya (http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/171089-120w-led-rainforest-66-papaya.html) What do you think happened and what do you think can be done to avoid it in terms of light spectrum?

[jdcha1]

So in terms of LED, more watts doesn't necessarily equate to better growth/yield because you might be introducing an improper balance of spectrums-- unlike with HIDs because increasing wattage of HIDs increases the entire broad spectrum of that particular lamp.

Would you say this is true?

If I am using supplemental 42w CFL bulbs for the 120w HTG LED panel, do you think you can estimate the how many 6500K bulbs I should use? I was going to use a maximum of 4 CFLs. Should I go 2 6500K and 2 2700K? Or all 6500K? Given that the 120w LED was a 7:1:1 ratio of red:blue:white.

[jdcha1]

Man I have so many questions I keep hearing this stuff about 1W diodes being "less efficient" than 3W diodes. This seems like hearsay to me. Would you attribute the success of stra8outtaweed's grows to these 3W diodes? His ratio of blue to red is pretty close to yours I believe

[jdcha1]

Maybe I should off load this HTG led on ebay and get one of yours. Perhaps after my first grow. Man seems like I'm talking to myself. This is what happens if you don't allow edits after 10 minutes.

[khyberkitsune]

Relax man! Let me see here.

Yes, that grow failed. For one, nutrient mix seemed a little off. The LED panel was sub-par as well.

If you used one of mine with the HTG, the balance would not be thrown off that much. The HTG would act as a supplement versus mine, but it would still be somewhat effective.

To maximize what you've got right now, keep your plants shorter. 1w diodes are more efficient, but they have less overall penetration as they're not emitting as much photon flux density. But there are 3w diodes coming soon that will be as efficient as 1W diodes.

Go with 2 and 2 (6500/3000K) CFL.

Oh, and the off balance can work in both directions - too much focus on mass production and little focus on flowering hormone produces tiny rock hard buds, too much focus on flowering and little on mass production produces wispy fluffy stuff. A proper balance will produce nice dense colas and buds like in my prior pictures.

[canniwhatsis]

Relax man!

+1! :rastasmoke: :bonghit:



Oh, and the off balance can work in both directions - too much focus on mass production and little focus on flowering hormone produces tiny rock hard buds, too much focus on flowering and little on mass production produces wispy fluffy stuff. A proper balance will produce nice dense colas and buds like in my prior pictures.


There is also a difference in strain as well. Under the same environment my GDP would yield small but rock hard buds,.. where my blueberry has cola's the size of my fist! but they are on the light/wispy side. This is flowering under 400w HPS tho. So perhaps the perfect balance has to be struck per strain?.... If that's so, how does one grow multiple strains without having multiple rooms?

K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid!) answer is it can't be done,... at least not ideally.


M'kay,... M'abit cupshot :glugglug: so I'm gonna STFU now,... at least till tomorrow! :jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

"So perhaps the perfect balance has to be struck per strain?"

Hmm, I think that would be more nutrient-dependent, as chlorophyll is chlorophyll. As far as we know, there are only 6 types, and they only respond to certain wavelength ranges. In reality, only chlorophyll A and B are present in terrestrial plants, so targeting those is the trick. Yes, one can specifically target IR as well, but that has to be done in conjunction with the right wavelength of red, and in the proper ratio, otherwise you end up with a waste and a majority of your added IR having no effect at all.

Sory I haven't been around to update so quickly - a website literally ripped off my site's assets to make a site of their own, and after investigation, it's a credit card stealing site, meant to trick you into authorizing the purchase. No security, and my merchant account test card said "Can't Authorize" which means it's likely a tap/harvest site. Been trying to get it taken down to protect innocent and naive buyers of new tech. Been a victim, hated it, swore to not consciously know about such things and let it go unhandled.

Dratted Chinese.

"M'kay,... M'abit cupshot so I'm gonna STFU now,... at least till tomorrow!"

Don't feel bad. I get a little cupshot now and then (tequila being my weakness,) and that does lead me to being an arsehole online (I'm sure everyone has seen this a few times from me.) I just realize that I screwed up that night, and make the attempt to correct my behavior. It's taken me a while to mature, as I never had any stable family life, and I practically raised myself outside of school, which led to a wild child with a wild hair up the ass, possibly eternally.

But I try to be more serious and courteous, as my job title dictates, as well as my contract. I fail at times but since I don't do it while acting in an official capacity, I'm okay.

[khyberkitsune]

Well, my NFT system sprung a leak. 10 gallons of nutrients GONE in one night. Thank goodness I had the foresight to install catch buckets!!!!!!

There was quite a bit of stress, obvious signs of lack of water. took the two empty channels, completely disassembled them, went and bought some liquid nails, and used a syringe to inject a seal in the end caps, plugged them on tightly, then sealed around every crack I could see. Once those cured (I kept hand-feeding water every 15 minutes while waiting the 12 hours for the stuff to cure,) I moved the plants ever so carefully in to those channels, then went to work on the other set. I also went ahead and sealed up around my water level indicator since the reservoir was bone dry. Right now, no leaks. The plants have perked back up. I'll get a picture once the lights come on and I'll post.

[khyberkitsune]

Alrighty, lights on, pic taken. I took the outer quad bands, and put those in my mother/clone box, and replaced them with 90w tri-band panels. So the flowering section is running 230w LED. The mother/clone section runs 100w LED.

And attachments finally work again!!

[khyberkitsune]

Sorry for slacking, been ill!

Stuff is looking GREAT in the NFT system! I should have the next batch ready to roll in this saturday.

This is so much better than the DWC SOG I used to do, and far less stretching versus my old T5 units.

[canniwhatsis]

Nicely done bro! :thumbsup: should be killer yield off this one!

[khyberkitsune]

Nicely done bro! :thumbsup: should be killer yield off this one!

So killer another site had to chase me off because I was going to violate their weight limit by the time all the channels were full.

[canniwhatsis]

LOL! Nice! :thumbsup: OH just pulled 40+ pounds,... I don't think your gonna be over that! ;) So I doubt the mods will chase you off this site. :D


Out of curiosity, I had the impression you were veging the new girls?

But the new growth pics show otherwise! :D So is this a straight from clone to flower situation?

Any way you played your cards I'm watching! :bonghit:

[khyberkitsune]

LOL! Nice! :thumbsup: OH just pulled 40+ pounds,... I don't think your gonna be over that! ;) So I doubt the mods will chase you off this site. :D


Out of curiosity, I had the impression you were veging the new girls?

But the new growth pics show otherwise! :D So is this a straight from clone to flower situation?

Any way you played your cards I'm watching! :bonghit:

Purely straight to flower from clone root onset. I will fill up the four channels (one every two weeks) and once they're all full, wait another two weeks, pull, and begin the rotation again.

And I doubt they'd boot me off, I am medical after all and I'm not that bad of a guy!

40 pounds, I only wish! :D Maybe when I get my own house. Prop 19 only states a 25 square foot area, they don't say how HIGH it can be! :) Stacked NFT system, solid bud floor to ceiling!

[khyberkitsune]

Third row transplanted!

Stuff was getting TOO thick with the 50w and 90w. Had to move to a 120 and a 90w. Might ultimately go dual 120w, which seems the most likely. I think I underestimated the high efficiency and speed of this system.

[canniwhatsis]

One more channel to go! :hippy:


I was talkin to one of my buddy's about that 25' thing,.... That SUCKS! And here I was thinking Co was restrictive with the 6 plant max per patient.

It does beg the question about stacking,.... would they consider each level as additional square footage? :wtf:

[khyberkitsune]

One more channel to go! :hippy:


I was talkin to one of my buddy's about that 25' thing,.... That SUCKS! And here I was thinking Co was restrictive with the 6 plant max per patient.

It does beg the question about stacking,.... would they consider each level as additional square footage? :wtf:

Given how tall the plants could get without training, I doubt it. Also, you would have to count this total as cubic feet. Square feet implies only x and y, not an added z dimension.

[420session]

Looks like a good grow, hope you yield above average! it's a very efficient and simple system, just watch them leaks. I've had LEDs for a good minute, just never put them to use. I just recently threw some seeds I had stored from past strains I've smoked- thought all failed until one finally sprouted and looks very promising:). Hesitant to make a thread on it but maybe Im just paronoid but really just want to experiment with LEDs and fluorescents combined. A lot of people doubt it's functuality but I am a believer. I guess maybe because it's still in it's infancy and still kinda expensive. I just think pot heads already being green and open minded should embrace new sciences and give them a try- it could be the future!

Good luck and sorry for ranting..just on that informative zone:thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

Looks like a good grow, hope you yield above average! it's a very efficient and simple system, just watch them leaks. I've had LEDs for a good minute, just never put them to use. I just recently threw some seeds I had stored from past strains I've smoked- thought all failed until one finally sprouted and looks very promising:). Hesitant to make a thread on it but maybe Im just paronoid but really just want to experiment with LEDs and fluorescents combined. A lot of people doubt it's functuality but I am a believer. I guess maybe because it's still in it's infancy and still kinda expensive. I just think pot heads already being green and open minded should embrace new sciences and give them a try- it could be the future!

Good luck and sorry for ranting..just on that informative zone:thumbsup:

Use the LED for overhead lighting and use the CFL for side/undercanopy lighting, that should get you some decent results! Hopefully you don't have the 'Lite-Brite' LED type panel!

[420session]

Use the LED for overhead lighting and use the CFL for side/undercanopy lighting, that should get you some decent results! Hopefully you don't have the 'Lite-Brite' LED type panel!

That's exactly the plan although I did buy the LEDs a while back they're just collecting dust within it's box!! Most likely they are a 'Lite-Brite' panel. But Ima do some R&D and find out more on that matter. However if it was those cheap LEDs could they still atleast be used for vegitation? Or would they just be better off taken to the range and used as target? Probably bad for the earth..

I was wondering how long you've been actually trying to grow with LEDs and if for sometime can you write a little thesis or a conclusion to what your experiences are? Maybe you can enlighten with some wisdom.

Eitherway good luck!!

[canniwhatsis]

Do some reading around on this site, Kitsune has some really good posts in other forums on this site. :thumbsup:

[StoneMeadow]

It does beg the question about stacking,.... would they consider each level as additional square footage? :wtf:Given how tall the plants could get without training, I doubt it. Also, you would have to count this total as cubic feet. Square feet implies only x and y, not an added z dimension.

I urge caution with this idea until it's settled law (presuming Prop 19 passes). IANAL, but a lawyer friend of mine explained it like this: An ambitious DA can bust someone for a stacked grow on the grounds that each layer is additive square footage. The big unknown is...can he get a conviction that holds up under appeal?

There is "statute law", which is what's written. And then there is "case law", which is what the courts have decided the words in the statute mean. Case in point (if you'll pardon the pun... :thumbsup:) is that the mmj statute says patients can "grow their own". Various jurisdictions in Cali tried to set arbitrary limits on the number of plants patients could grow, but were overturned by the California Supreme Court. The Supremes ruled that since the statute sets no limits a mmj patient can grow any "reasonable amount" for their own use or to sell to a dispensary. AFAIK this has so far withstood challenge or limitation by local authorities.

BTW, by taking the mmj case to the CSC, mmj patients have powerful protection from Prop 19 limitations. Recreational users will be limited to 25 sq ft, but not mmj patients.

The major point here is that the question of stacked systems is an unsettled question of law. Do you feel lucky, or should you stay within the strictest interpretation of 25 sq ft until the issue is settled?

Again, IANAL, but it makes sense to me. All the more reason to get one's 215 card. :D

[khyberkitsune]

That's exactly the plan although I did buy the LEDs a while back they're just collecting dust within it's box!! Most likely they are a 'Lite-Brite' panel. But Ima do some R&D and find out more on that matter. However if it was those cheap LEDs could they still atleast be used for vegitation? Or would they just be better off taken to the range and used as target? Probably bad for the earth..

I was wondering how long you've been actually trying to grow with LEDs and if for sometime can you write a little thesis or a conclusion to what your experiences are? Maybe you can enlighten with some wisdom.

Eitherway good luck!!

If your panel is a lite-brite one, it's okay to help with vegging.

Doubtful it'll harm the environment, except the plastic if it is those lite-brite diodes.

I've been growing with LED for a while, now. Older grows were not as good due to garbage balance to the wavelength output. Now I've got MUCH better grows going on, everything from cannabis, to basil, tomatoes, peppers, to lettuces. I even have pineapple plants growing under LED just fine. LED is 100% perfectly working, you just need to configure the panel properly (99% of light manufacturers, INCLUDING the biggest ones out there, do NOT do this.)

[khyberkitsune]

I urge caution with this idea until it's settled law (presuming Prop 19 passes). IANAL, but a lawyer friend of mine explained it like this: An ambitious DA can bust someone for a stacked grow on the grounds that each layer is additive square footage. The big unknown is...can he get a conviction that holds up under appeal?

There is "statute law", which is what's written. And then there is "case law", which is what the courts have decided the words in the statute mean. Case in point (if you'll pardon the pun... :thumbsup:) is that the mmj statute says patients can "grow their own". Various jurisdictions in Cali tried to set arbitrary limits on the number of plants patients could grow, but were overturned by the California Supreme Court. The Supremes ruled that since the statute sets no limits a mmj patient can grow any "reasonable amount" for their own use or to sell to a dispensary. AFAIK this has so far withstood challenge or limitation by local authorities.

BTW, by taking the mmj case to the CSC, mmj patients have powerful protection from Prop 19 limitations. Recreational users will be limited to 25 sq ft, but not mmj patients.

The major point here is that the question of stacked systems is an unsettled question of law. Do you feel lucky, or should you stay within the strictest interpretation of 25 sq ft until the issue is settled?

Again, IANAL, but it makes sense to me. All the more reason to get one's 215 card. :D

If the legal system attempts to redefine square footage to include a height dimension of a stacked system, they're going to get smacked down by NIST which determines scientific and accurate measurements and their proper definitions (in other words, the people behind the definition of a square foot will go "You cannot say this applies differently because it simply isn't the truth.") It's happened before and it can happen again.

No worries on any end. Square foot is pretty well-defined in even the most crappy educational system. Medical patients indeed will not have that limitation. Personal growers will likely get away with it considering the argument of 20-30 foot tall plants. Controlling the height should be included in such maintenance of a system and thus running a multi-level system should make perfect sense.

[BudSmoker510]

Very good Info on this thread.
I've been reading up on LED's and this thread is really helping me decide.
Thanks

[khyberkitsune]

Very good Info on this thread.
I've been reading up on LED's and this thread is really helping me decide.
Thanks

Just remember that there are very few companies/individuals that have panels that will work properly. VERY few. Mostly by virtue of bad spectrum choices and bad spectrum balances, followed by cheaper-grade equipment bringing up the rear.

[khyberkitsune]

My quantum meter arrived! Of course I went right for my biggest panel.

"Full sunlight on a cloudless, clear day at high noon in the mid-western US is about 2000 umol/m2/s PAR" (quoting foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR (http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9711/msg00022.html) as a reference.)

One inch away from the 120w panel, I achieve that reading. Honestly, I expected about 1/4 that amount. Even more amazingly, this meter is more sensitive to red than blue, and my blue-dominant 15w bulbs still manage to peak out the meter from about one inch away.

Of course, this changes quite drastically with distance given my 120 degree emission angle. 300mm away, my 50w panel shows about 200 umol, while the 120w shows about 600 umol, the 90w pops ~500. The 15w bulb shows a piddly 42 umol.

A little more math now that I have this measurement ability, and I should be able to make an ultra-killer panel.

Pics are of my 90w. 300mm and 3 inches.

[jdcha1]

way cool kitsune... I'm really looking forward to the results

[khyberkitsune]

Let's have a few closeups and a normal-light shot!

Almost getting to 6 weeks for the back channel! 4 more to roll!

[khyberkitsune]

Last channel transplanted! Sadly these clones aren't looking as healthy as the other ones, but I think that will remedy itself in short order.

The back rows are looking wonderful. Looks like (at least as far as 1w diodes are concerned) that we are needing about 25% less energy than we would typically require to get a similar yield, but that remains to be seen in final results!

[headshake]

hey kyber, does your company sell their hydro setups direct? if so got a link or if not can you point me in the right direction. i'm just doing some research and deciding if i'm gonna build my own or not. i saw one of the pics you posted in a different forum ( i think it was the faux-aero one where i started all the trouble! hehe). lol.

i obviously see what you are working with here as well. seems to be along the lines i'd like to try.

thanks again.


-shake

[headshake]

also, can't wait to see what panels you come up with! very intriguing stuff. i'm sure i might have missed it ( i need to go back and re-read the thread) but why use the 120 degree skirts (i think this is the right term)?


-shake

[headshake]

and i apologize for the error on the abbreviation of your name in my original post!

-shake

[khyberkitsune]

As of right now I only do LED lighting, but I am working towards getting smaller-scale systems designed for home usage with help from my Australian partners. Not entirely sure on when, though.

I was using 120 degree viewing angle due to the need for wide coverage at short distances, and more even blending of the different lights closer to the panel itself. however, knowing that's not going to be necessary for the next generation, I'm adjusting that down. I think 75 degrees might be my next target, it just depends on how my panel gets designed.

I may still keep a 120 degree viewing angle for those wishing to do shorter plants but wishing to keep wide coverage as well, for example, a good prostrate rosemary bush would enjoy such a configuration.

And no worries on the name, it happens all the time!

[headshake]

cool man, i appreciate the response. i've got plans on building an aero or aero/NFT system that i think i'll go with. it's similar to the aeroflo2 systems. it will be nice to make the system fit my light's footprint. thanks agian.


-shake

[khyberkitsune]

That is the advantage of narrow channel systems like this, you can fit them just about anywhere with a reservoir underneath and you're set to go!

Also, they take up very little space and as long as they are properly designed need very little head room!

[means2010]

khyber sounds like u know what ur talking about when it comes to led lighting,what do u think about a 300watt led light that has 3 different phases of light for different growing cycles,can u tell me what a good led light would be and a good company to order 1?

[khyberkitsune]

khyber sounds like u know what ur talking about when it comes to led lighting,what do u think about a 300watt led light that has 3 different phases of light for different growing cycles,can u tell me what a good led light would be and a good company to order 1?

I don't believe in different phases of light, primarily because the sun doesn't change very much at all throughout the year.

Once you've got a solid configuration found, stick with it and you'll see that usually it's your nutrient regimen that affects a majority of your yield, all other limitations eliminated (like oxygen, lighting, CO2, temperatures, ventilation.)

I wish i had 300w units available for my company. Still in design phase and waiting for the right equipment to match.

That being said, I don't know of any company at the moment, and I do keep my eye on the competition. Individuals might be able to get you something customized from some other manufacturer.

[canniwhatsis]

Looking good! :jointsmile:


I"ve had to put my MH back up for veg regarding the E-mails,... but the LED is now hanging over 2 little girls on 12/12 for a side by side HPS LED flower of the same strains. I'm thinking of doing a SCROG under it for my next LED grow,... wow would that be a thing of beauty!

I will try to offer some useable feedback for ya as this progresses, So far both are on equal footing.

[khyberkitsune]

Looking good! :jointsmile:


I"ve had to put my MH back up for veg regarding the E-mails,... but the LED is now hanging over 2 little girls on 12/12 for a side by side HPS LED flower of the same strains. I'm thinking of doing a SCROG under it for my next LED grow,... wow would that be a thing of beauty!

I will try to offer some useable feedback for ya as this progresses, So far both are on equal footing.

Sounds like fun times ahead! Keep me posted!

[StoneMeadow]

I"ve had to put my MH back up for veg regarding the E-mails,... but the LED is now hanging over 2 little girls on 12/12 for a side by side HPS LED flower of the same strains.

I'm very interested in this, so please be sure to do a grow log. Call it something like "Side-by-side HD versus LED Grow-off"... :D

[headshake]

I'm very interested in this, so please be sure to do a grow log. Call it something like "Side-by-side HD versus LED Grow-off"... :D

go back and check out Irydyum's Kush Grow Log (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/184394-irydyums-kush-grow.html).

he's running a 400W HPS vs 300W of LED.


-shake

[RackitMan]

As of right now I only do LED lighting, but I am working towards getting smaller-scale systems designed for home usage with help from my Australian partners. Not entirely sure on when, though.

I was using 120 degree viewing angle due to the need for wide coverage at short distances, and more even blending of the different lights closer to the panel itself. however, knowing that's not going to be necessary for the next generation, I'm adjusting that down. I think 75 degrees might be my next target, it just depends on how my panel gets designed.

I may still keep a 120 degree viewing angle for those wishing to do shorter plants but wishing to keep wide coverage as well, for example, a good prostrate rosemary bush would enjoy such a configuration.

And no worries on the name, it happens all the time!

In my design, I am thinking of putting higher wattage, wide angle LEDs (say 120 degrees) in the center of my light sourrounded by medium wattage narrower angle LEDS (maybe 75-90 degrees) and lower wattage LEDS with maybe a 30-60 degree angle around the edge.

Seems this might allow for a wider 'sweet spot' as to optimum height above plants. If not, please point out the error in my reasoning.

With my current commercial 120 degree angle 120w LED it is very difficult to get the correct height without either bleaching the plants or dispersing/wasting too much light.

[khyberkitsune]

Well, the light bleaching is a result of so much raw photosynthetic power hitting the plant. As chlorophyll does its thing, it literally dissolves and reforms. Light bleaching occurs when the rate of photosynthesis is so great that chlorophyll can't regenerate fast enough to keep up with the incoming power.

Working with different wattages of LEDs is, IMHO, asking for a higher risk of the equipment failing. Different diodes of different wattages have different operating conditions, and thus it is likely that having .5w diodes mixed with 1w diodes would cause the .5w diodes to fail pretty rapidly given they're more sensitive to heat.

As for wasted light, sadly this is what happens with ANY light solution. Due to the recessed nature of the LED board inside the panel housing, the outer edge LEDs don't get a chance to blend (and this is why you see that off-colored outside ring of light from any panel) so the center dominant color becomes the outer ring primary color. Once we can get panels that aren't designed with recessed boards made, then we won't have to worry about such wasted light.

Also, bear in mind that a 120 degree viewing angle was meant for shorter and more compact plants, as such a wide spread cannot penetrate to the degree 90 or 75 degrees would due to the wider spreading of photon emissions.

[means2010]

khyber there r some companies that do sell 300 watt + grow lights ,here is a link to a 750 watt let grow light,tell me what u think,i'm seen a lot of 300watt led lights out there

[RackitMan]

Except for the piss-poor quality, I really liked my 0.5w LED 50w panels - when they worked. I believe they were 60 degrees.

[means2010]

LED Grow Lights - Best New LED Grow Light (http://www.advancedledlights.com/products/New-%252d-740w-Extreme-Flower-LED-%252d-3w-USA-LEDs-%252d-11-Wavelengths-.html)

740 watt led

[means2010]

what do u think about this led grow light,it is pricey,how do u think it would work?

[khyberkitsune]

Ahh, I remember those lights! :D

The point of LED is to target only the highest-reactive wavelengths for phytochemical and photosynthetic processes. First, they're covering 11 wavelengths, that's quite wasteful, there are only 4 major photosynthetic peaks to cover, and carotenoids get coverage from the blue range (and at one of the highest peaks) so there's not need for so many wavelengths. Second, the IR they're using is all over the place, and in totally improper ratios to compliment the deep red for enhanced fruiting and flowering. Third, I'll bet on those 3w chips being multi-emitters - lossy. Fourth, they have UVA, no UVB - tests show UVA is useless for flowering, you want UVB instead. With the sheer amount of power alone the panel should produce decent results, but it is not optimized, there is a lack of blue, and looks like they tossed a bunch of stuff together to claim a proprietary blend, as evidenced by the random tossing of UV and IR into the mix along with the 615nm.

Their warranty is great, however, I'll give them that.

[means2010]

Can u suggest a good led light and company to use or do u strictly only design ur own lights?

[khyberkitsune]

Can u suggest a good led light and company to use or do u strictly only design ur own lights?

I design my own lighting (part of my job) and use it exclusively for all horticultural purposes.

Many others on this forum (Weezard, Stra8outtaweed) can hook you up with higher-power panels that will do the job much better and likely at a better price. My high power panels are not ready, yet.

[khyberkitsune]

Freshly-cut babies in the cloning spot, 24 in total, waiting for root set in about two weeks.

Little spidermite damage, but that Floramite I got from the hydro shop did the trick where the no-pest strip failed.

[khyberkitsune]

End of seven weeks! Buds in the back are looking great!

[Gare0440]

very nice tight sog. cant wait to see the end result off your leds

[SOGMaster]

Wow that looks awesome! How much heat do they currently put out?

[khyberkitsune]

I can't wait to see the final results, as well.

As for heat, they put out nearly negligible amounts. There is some but it's not like a T5HO unit.

Meanwhile, in my secret LED/HPS combo garden...

[canniwhatsis]

I can't wait to see the final results, as well.

As for heat, they put out nearly negligible amounts. There is some but it's not like a T5HO unit.

+1 you can actually touch the glass while the light is on, crazy,.... BTW, you shouldn't do that.


Meanwhile, in my secret LED/HPS combo garden...

Now THAT is what I'm talking about! :thumbsup:

[bigsby]

Yeah, after my first (some what disappointing) run I'm leaning towards adding an HPS. Can you tell us more about the HPS you are running along side the LEDs? Wattage, bulb type, etc. Mine is a small garden - 8 plant scrog. I'm hoping that 400w will be sufficient together with 300w of LED and if I could drop it down to 250w that would be better - I have heat issues.

[khyberkitsune]

You could easily handle that kind of scrog with 8 plants using 300w LED and an added 400w HPS or MH. I'd go the MH route, personally.

[bigsby]

So 250w HPS isn't going to cut it? That was my assumption but thought it might be sufficient next to the LEDs.

[Gare0440]

You could easily handle that kind of scrog with 8 plants using 300w LED and an added 400w HPS or MH. I'd go the MH route, personally.

would this be the same with led an a t5 combo? meaning leave the 6000k bulbs in or would switching to bloom 2700k be better? for bud i mean..

[khyberkitsune]

In my tests with T5 lighting I always got better results with the 5600-6500K bulbs in flower. Especially with all of the red coming from the LED panels, this would be an optimal choice. In a combination light system, even lower-tier LED units will be of great use as long as the other source is quality as well.

[khyberkitsune]

So we're right next to the end of week 8!

[khyberkitsune]

I crept up on them today with my scope, and there was more than enough amber vs milky for me to harvest. Nice and fat, too!

Time for a GRIP of pics!

The roots were especially trippy to observe

[canniwhatsis]

Very nice! :thumbsup: :rastasmoke:

Any estimate on the dry weight from that channel?

[Gare0440]

very very nice:thumbsup::thumbsup:

what was ure little hydro you made? it looks like it worked well. maybe ill give that a shop for my next.

[khyberkitsune]

Very nice! :thumbsup: :rastasmoke:

Any estimate on the dry weight from that channel?

Looking at likely 2oz after all is said and done. I hope!


very very nice:thumbsup::thumbsup:

what was ure little hydro you made? it looks like it worked well. maybe ill give that a shop for my next.

This is a specialized NFT channel made by my Australian partners. The rest of the system is a rigjob of rubbermaid bins and random hoses and splitters.

[khyberkitsune]

DRIED WEIGHT:

3g short of 2oz (the two tiny plants on the right side got smoked, that would've put me well over 2 oz in buds) plus 7.3g of straight sweet leaf.

I am quite happy with this. I'll drop to 8 plants per channel, and maybe get a system set up to have a new channel going every week. I'd like to get a QP every two weeks instead of two ounces.

[khyberkitsune]

I had to harvest a couple of days early, as I found spidermites all over the damned place. Despite having two brand-new Hot Shot no-pest strips plus using water+soap+alcohol spray, they managed to force me to wipe out one channel. The final remaining channel is not too far into flowering, yet, so I've dropped a dose of alcohol spray and floramite spray on it, in that order.

But I think I am going to get a larger yield from this channel versus the prior one. I'm estimating maybe 2.5 ounces.

[khyberkitsune]

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU

I have had to wipe out EVERYTHING that wasn't harvested. Spider mites just took over.

Ah well, this just gives me an opportunity to clean everything out, re-do everything and get ready to try rolling all six channels under about 420w of LED. I want to cut all the required clones and just flower them all off the bat, 54 in total. 6 channels, typical 2-2.5oz per channel, under 420w LED, not too bad when all is said and done, I'd say!

[canniwhatsis]

Bummer! :(


Mites are my biggest fear with my perpetual grow. If they get in there I have to re-set since I can't apply poison to the late in flower girls.


Bomb your room for a week, Spay NEEM on everything, put insect powder on the tops of your channels, then smear "TangleFoot" around the base of your plants (on the stem) And make sure the leaves aren't touching anything that isn't fully sanitized/sterilized/and defended against any crawlin little bitches! :mad:


IMO there is NO small or manageable Mite "problem" :rolleyes:


If there is a SINGLE Mite,.......... ITS F'nWAR!!!!


Treat it as such, and you won't have bug problems.

I'm still fighting imaginary mites (bi-weekly Neem applications in Vege, just to cover new growth)


I don't use pesticides in flower. Nor will I. Should an infestation happen,..... everybody dies!!! :rambo: :mad:




I'm sure YOU already know all of this, but I'm posting for the sake of the Neubes that will eventually read this.

[khyberkitsune]

Bummer! :(


Mites are my biggest fear with my perpetual grow. If they get in there I have to re-set since I can't apply poison to the late in flower girls.


Bomb your room for a week, Spay NEEM on everything, put insect powder on the tops of your channels, then smear "TangleFoot" around the base of your plants (on the stem) And make sure the leaves aren't touching anything that isn't fully sanitized/sterilized/and defended against any crawlin little bitches! :mad:


IMO there is NO small or manageable Mite "problem" :rolleyes:


If there is a SINGLE Mite,.......... ITS F'nWAR!!!!


Treat it as such, and you won't have bug problems.

I'm still fighting imaginary mites (bi-weekly Neem applications in Vege, just to cover new growth)


I don't use pesticides in flower. Nor will I. Should an infestation happen,..... everybody dies!!! :rambo: :mad:




I'm sure YOU already know all of this, but I'm posting for the sake of the Neubes that will eventually read this.

Actually, there are SOME poisons you can apply during late flowering. What you have to know is the volatility of the chemical. Chemicals with 100% volatility at room temperature will completely evaporate off of whatever surface they're on, without any residue. Distilled high-proof alcohol is one example.

There are other controls like potassium-based soap sprays that do not persist in the environment.

The problem is, practically nobody carries them, and you have to make them yourself.

Diluted cinnamon oil is one that is safe to use during flowering. IT MUST BE REAL CINNAMON, NOT CASSIABARK. The majority of 'cinnamon' is cassiabark, even though it says cinnamon on the packaging.

[khyberkitsune]

So I pulled my mylar down for cleaning.

MOLD.

But only at the spot closest to where my exhaust is located, so that would somewhat make sense, warm still air behind the mylar + the reservoir being located near there probably did it. Ah well, a few bleach blasts and some good scrubbing then a final lysol dose took care of that.

But I won't be hanging up mylar on the walls this round. I'll just use the white paint since it's a gloss paint, and I'll put mylar on the sliding doors instead.

I'm going to get all six channels rolling this time. I've moved the reservoir to the center and I'm going to re drill the lid for three on each side. I'm going to add a real splitter instead of the junky one I've rigged and sealed up with silicone caulk. I'm also redoing every channel with pure silicone adhesive to completely deal with any leakage potential.

[khyberkitsune]

Got my system re-hosed, fitted with a new 6-outlet splitter, and only thing left to do is route the holes for the center two channels. I think I'm gonna go with 9 again and try to space them out a bit further, also make the holes just a TINY bit smaller so the neoprene discs have a snug fit.

[wkpjr1967]

Hello Khyberkitsune!
I am very interested in using LED technology in the near future.
I have been doing some research and am leaning toward either a Supernova system from HID Hut or a Penetrator system from Hydro Grow LED.

Because of the cost of these systems I want to get the best value for my hard earned money.

Are you familiar with these systems?
Do you have any opinion of these systems or companies?

Your plants look great and give me hope that a LED system will be a great investment!

[khyberkitsune]

Hello Khyberkitsune!
I am very interested in using LED technology in the near future.
I have been doing some research and am leaning toward either a Supernova system from HID Hut or a Penetrator system from Hydro Grow LED.

Because of the cost of these systems I want to get the best value for my hard earned money.

Are you familiar with these systems?
Do you have any opinion of these systems or companies?

Your plants look great and give me hope that a LED system will be a great investment!

They're a good investment if you get the right ones.

Opinions of the companies are really not for me to say. That's a little unprofessional.

Hunt around. People here can tell you which ones are worth it and which ones aren't.

[khyberkitsune]

Alright, so I've been inactive in growing. Holidays, death, and light upgrades, mainly.

In a couple of weeks I'll have a new setup, at least for lights.

I gotta go cut a TON of clones to fill my system. Joy!

[canniwhatsis]

Mmmmmm, cloning...... have about 30-40 clones ready to take off of my mothers,.... I only need 2!!!!! all the rest have to go in the trash :( Which is alright, I start to loose my mind after 15 anyway ;)

[khyberkitsune]

Yea I need at LEAST 54 good clones to fill all 6 channels.

Tomorrow or the day after I cut. By the time the new lights arrive, I will be ready for transplant.

If you've got your license current, sell the excess clones to a dispensary that deals in clones! I think most medical states allow patient-dispensary transactions for overages as long as it is a reasonable donation that is not guaranteed to be profitable.

AKA follow the laws and destroy what you're legally unable to donate for compensation.

It's tough, man! I know! I hate having to kill perfectly good plant stock because of the law, it is very much like killing something because there is no living space for it, even though it deserves a chance as a living organism. Even though California law states "As much as medically necessary" that medically necessary amount is quite variable per doctor and per county (despite CASC saying 'No you may not impose limits further than what we have imposed.")

[canniwhatsis]

Colorado changed that. Now Dispensary's can only buy anything from other dispensarys! :mad: In order for me to sell any overage, be it finished product or clones a dispensary would have to list my house as an off site grow.

And the city that I live in has a ban on dispensary's so if I'm affiliated with a dispensary I'm in violation of city law and will be arrested. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thus I'm a private caregiver with my limited # of patients, and limited # of plants per patient, and no outlet for disposing of unneeded clones or overgrow aside from destruction or black market.

Since a getting Felony isn't on my "To Do" list, I have to destroy lots of clones and try to grow slightly less than my patients need.

[LetsSeeYa]

Colorado changed that. Now Dispensary's can only buy anything from other dispensarys! :mad: In order for me to sell any overage, be it finished product or clones a dispensary would have to list my house as an off site grow.

And the city that I live in has a ban on dispensary's so if I'm affiliated with a dispensary I'm in violation of city law and will be arrested. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thus I'm a private caregiver with my limited # of patients, and limited # of plants per patient, and no outlet for disposing of unneeded clones or overgrow aside from destruction or black market.

Since a getting Felony isn't on my "To Do" list, I have to destroy lots of clones and try to grow slightly less than my patients need.



What about becoming 501-C status, or ''non-profit'' maybe something that would open a loop hole for you. The no tax thing may not apply, but really should, i think so new that they are probably adding more restrictions, are they? Il bet its tough keeping track of all the plants, patients and what are the price limitations?



:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

What about becoming 501-C status, or ''non-profit'' maybe something that would open a loop hole for you. The no tax thing may not apply, but really should, i think so new that they are probably adding more restrictions, are they? Il bet its tough keeping track of all the plants, patients and what are the price limitations?



:rasta:

If he went with the 501 status, he'd be under much more scrutiny. No-Profit pretty much means that and he'd need a couple of accountants to keep things in 'order.'

[bigsby]

If he went with the 501 status, he'd be under much more scrutiny. No-Profit pretty much means that and he'd need a couple of accountants to keep things in 'order.'

I've established and run two 501(c)3s both of which are still alive and kicking.While it's true that you would face a higher level of scrutiny, it is not necessarily true that you would need even one accountant. This would only be true if the $$ were significant, which is unlikely to be the case here. Any reasonably intelligent person can pull it off. That said, you do have to keep your books tidy at all times. Accounting is an area that many non-profits over look leading to mismanagement, graft, and audit headaches. You could get it done with Quicken or if you end up with a few employees, Quickbooks. It is certainly worth looking into.

[canniwhatsis]

Thanks for the idea. I'll probably look deeper into that this year, but for now I'm just gonna set up a DBA for taxes. Me and ####'s don't get along well,... so I need it to be simple.


As for tracking patients and plants,.... I'm limited to 5 patients, and 6 plants per patient. + the wifes home grow, so I can have a max of 36 plants. :(

Of course with my day job sucking 50+ hours a week out of my life I can't take care of more than about 24 plants anyway,.... :o


Kitsune,... sorry for the thread jack. :jointsmile:

[bigsby]

Yeah, my apologies too. Last post on this subject.

I'd be very interested to explore the politics of whether or not you can set up a non-profit to manage patient needs. Likely others are looking in to it too. A novel approach to be sure. Unfortunately it would have federal implications as you need to register with both your state department of revenue and the IRS to achieve full 501(c)3 status, though rule vary from state to state. You may be able to set up simply as a locally recognized non-profit without going through the IRS but then you would not be a true 501(c)3. Let me know if you decide to take this further. I'd be happy to contribute some knowledge and time.

[khyberkitsune]

Not worried about the thread-jack, gentlemen. Good information is always welcome in my threads.

[LetsSeeYa]

Not worried about the thread-jack, gentlemen. Good information is always welcome in my threads.



Hey bro, i guess my bad too as i brought the idea up, but in this crazy ass world with all these restrictions, i just thought it might help Canni or anyone else for that matter. I worked at a no- profit for 9 years and they simply used the ol checks an balances method and our budget was over $250,000. But yes, ducks need to be in a row for any audit.


But i came in to see how your grow is doing khyber? I think last you were looking into growing with a different light. Have you started working on it and i wondered the differences in the new you want versus the old lights you were using. They looked like they did a good job to me man. I guess we all want to step it up, lol. My tents here, but not up yet, i cant wait man. I have some LED's too, which leads me to the other reason i stopped in.

I have my lights just sorta standing on there ends to finish my NL#5. I was told that the are ok as long as the fans are cooling the lights and when this plant is done, they will be put into my tent. I wondered if you might just take a peak at it in the problem section and let me know if the plant is close enough. I am new to the LED lights, but i know you know your shit when it comes to LEDs. Heck to build one:jawdropper:that would be fun, hard yeah, but you know what your doing. So i wondered if you have time to take a peek and let me know if it looks close enough to the lights. Now its only a temp set up thing and when you see the space you will understand why i cant hang the lights, huge slope which the plant grew to big while nursing her back to health. Also if you have a clue on the questions i ask would be helpful. I have spurs growing out of the main stems that grow out, then die off? But this is if ya have any advise, its the distance thing, i think you can help me with. And i do turn the plant ever two days as the lights are at the door, pointing to the plant.

If ya got time man, its just that this is your thing, i thought id get my best advise from a LED guy like yourself. My tent is 2' x 4' x 5' and the lights are 150 watts each, bro please tell me its big enough for the lights. Just worried that its to much light for the space, i sure hope not. But yeah man this is some stuff i wanted to run by ya, and if ya have any advise, id sure appreciate it? Il post a LED pic there as last post, i posted all the reg pic's and forgot to post the pic of them, lol, in front of the light:wtf:i know, but its set up for just this one plant, then they go to the tent, its really ghetto, lol.


Thanks man:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

I have my new lights coming in about a week, so I'll get myself going then. I'm going to do my clone cutting tomorrow, most likely.


I'm tempted to pop a 300w on just one side and try a pair of 135w on the other side of the NFT and do a comparison. It's all set and ready to go, just needs lighting and clones!

You got the Welthink lights, right? Those are perfect in a 2x4 tent - 300w in 8 square feet will be awesome. Most people use a 400w HPS in 9 square feet, and your 2x4 area is perfect for those two lights to run down the widest part of the tent.

[khyberkitsune]

Also, I haven't been up to much else because I've had Nichia beating a hot path to my door with all kinds of samples. I can't say much beyond that, but let's just say be prepared for something potentially incredible.

Some of these samples are special monochromatic versions of new white-diode product made just for me :D They did their research on my company rather thoroughly! This 630nm is OUTSTANDING, even on raw battery power. The 460 is quite awesome as well.

I'm going to try to convince them to get into 660nm and 420nm production. I rather like the idea of the inventors of the white diode and stabilized blue diode working on my needs! Especially with input/output efficiencies reaching and exceeding 50% (for every 1w input power 500mW is emitted as radiant flux) even in their lowest-binned stuff, that's something I cannot turn down.

[LetsSeeYa]

I have my new lights coming in about a week, so I'll get myself going then. I'm going to do my clone cutting tomorrow, most likely.

Thats cool man, i have plants im waiting to get big enough to clone now. They are all Purples so i cant freaking wait after my Purple was ripped outside last year. I bought a cloner, but not sure if i got the right one. Its the aero type. Do you know if i need a special timer for it as it will continuously be spraying water with rooting hormone i n the res. Or should i just let it run till they have enough roots. I thought about getting rock wool cubes and sticking them in so id have something more then only roots to work with, just easier for me to mess with. Its only a 5 site cloner by Botanicare, its a ''Daisy''? Thought it might make things easier, but not sure now.


You got the Welthink lights, right? Those are perfect in a 2x4 tent - 300w in 8 square feet will be awesome. Most people use a 400w HPS in 9 square feet, and your 2x4 area is perfect for those two lights to run down the widest part of the tent.

My lights are just like str8s so if thats the Welthink, then thats what i have, i do know they have the 3w diodes. Im new to them so there will be some learning to do so iv been reading all the LED grows i can. But man i was really worried about the tent, so ya took a ton of worry off my back man. I was going to get the 4 x 4, but this one fits where i want to put it. I has hoping that it wouldn't be to much light for the plants. I thought about using Scrog and then lots of lolly-popping. I think i could do a nice Scrog, if i can manage to tie ever thing. I also thought of putting in a shelf about 2' high to make it easy for me to reach the plants, i will still have 3' to work a Scrog and if i lollipop, i can take it out or just keep them short. But we shall see, im just glad to be able to care for them as that other space will be done when that plant finishes, i sure hope the LED's build buds like iv seen here and a few other logs:thumbsup:

The tent is sitting here, but im thinking im going to need help getting it together and its killing me. My Purples are getting big in the box they are in, but still in party cups. But as looking at them today, i think they will only be good in them one more week. My hydro guy is sending me bigger pots so when they get here il have to re pot the cups. They look nice after i switched the lights i had been using, because they stretched bad. But this light fixed them up nice.

Thanks for the help man:hippy:im very relieved with the advise and suggestions. And glad to know suppliers are beating down your door with the materials you approve of!



:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

I just clone in trays of pH water in rockwool. Aerocloners run 24/7.

As for your plants, keep them fed and happy, you'll get monster results, of course this depends on strain typical yield, as well!

I also just re-signed an NDA with Anko Solara (induction manufacturer,) for development assistance. Maybe we'll see some better induction systems to go with LED!

[energyefficient]

I have always wondered about induction lighting and growing. Many converted parking lot lights from MH and HPS to induction with excellent results and amazing gains in efficiency.

top shelf work as usual.

[khyberkitsune]

Well, as to be expected, I got a returned panel, plus one of my own failed.

Well, I popped both apart, tested everything out, turns out one of my 50w just has a dead array, and the 120w had a dead driver (so only 2/3 of the panel lights up.)

Have some pictures of the individual components. Glass, panel plus thermal plate, casing, fan driver (the power driver is in the 120w, as it was still functional) fan, and connector points.

[Xperimints]

i need some advice.

backstory: i recently lost my job and don't know when i will get another one so i am pursuing growing as one way to help make ends meet.

I have been researching grow methods and lighting. I have decided to build an aeroponic/hydroponic system and use LED lighting because the heat and energy involved in HIDs is not something I want to deal with. I currently have some 1 1/2 week old seedlings in a soiless mix under a CFL that seem to be doing well so far.

Now, I have limited monetary resources that comes with being unemployed and all, so I need as little chance for big mistakes as possible (such as investing in garbage lights).

I have been looking at these lights:
120W LED Triband Hydroponic Plant Grow Light UFO II - eBay (item 290398326969 end time Jan-28-11 07:32:13 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290398326969)

2x90W LED UFO Triband Hydroponic Plant Grow Light 7:1:1 - eBay (item 120638633937 end time Jan-22-11 23:25:46 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120638633937)

I'm looking to have 6 to 12 plants growing in a 24 sq ft area. Am I on the right track with these lights/setup? Or am I horribly lost? Thanks for your help. :D

[khyberkitsune]

i need some advice.

backstory: i recently lost my job and don't know when i will get another one so i am pursuing growing as one way to help make ends meet.

I have been researching grow methods and lighting. I have decided to build an aeroponic/hydroponic system and use LED lighting because the heat and energy involved in HIDs is not something I want to deal with. I currently have some 1 1/2 week old seedlings in a soiless mix under a CFL that seem to be doing well so far.

Now, I have limited monetary resources that comes with being unemployed and all, so I need as little chance for big mistakes as possible (such as investing in garbage lights).

I have been looking at these lights:
120W LED Triband Hydroponic Plant Grow Light UFO II - eBay (item 290398326969 end time Jan-28-11 07:32:13 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290398326969)

2x90W LED UFO Triband Hydroponic Plant Grow Light 7:1:1 - eBay (item 120638633937 end time Jan-22-11 23:25:46 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120638633937)

I'm looking to have 6 to 12 plants growing in a 24 sq ft area. Am I on the right track with these lights/setup? Or am I horribly lost? Thanks for your help. :D

I'm not a fan of the 7:1:1 ratios sported by those panels but given the price I'd likely go after them as well. If you have to choose between the two, however, I would go for the dual 90w UFO, as the additional power (180w vs 120w) will help make up for the lacking blue and you would get superior coverage from two sources of light.

So close to my new lights coming in and my new setup going!

[Xperimints]

I'm not a fan of the 7:1:1 ratios sported by those panels but given the price I'd likely go after them as well. If you have to choose between the two, however, I would go for the dual 90w UFO, as the additional power (180w vs 120w) will help make up for the lacking blue and you would get superior coverage from two sources of light.

So close to my new lights coming in and my new setup going!

Thank you for replying! From what I can see you really know your stuff when it comes to LEDs. Some others on the forum have suggested that only commercial LED setups are worth buying because they can be trusted as they have been tested. I think that route would be out of my price range and if that is true then I was thinking of pursuing a fluorescent/CFL set-up. My concern is heat and energy usage as I don't want to risk fire or being flagged by my electricity company to the authorities.

Do you think those two UFOs would be enough to cover the area I need to?

I was also looking at this one : 120w LED Aquarium Coral Plant Grow Light Tri Band - eBay (item 330518256458 end time Feb-10-11 05:24:49 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330518256458)

I would buy two of them if I decided to go with the 120w unless one would be enough.

[khyberkitsune]

"Some others on the forum have suggested that only commercial LED setups are worth buying because they can be trusted as they have been tested."

Some of the same research from my commercial stuff goes in my commercial panels, but for your price limit you're better off going with that dual 90w deal no matter what - that's speaking before I look at your most recent link - lemme look here.....

90 degrees is good, tighter beams than what I offer though that means you need to keep the panel higher from the canopy so the light blends evenly and covers everything properly.

Oh, Bridgelux diodes. personally, that is a 'No thank you.' I wouldn't go with them, as I've had problems like diode separation in even the top-bin stuff from them, so I gave them up a long time ago - Kingbright is better and has higher efficiencies besides. As I said, that dual 90w you posted earlier is still your best bet. Also, aquarium spec is far different from terrestrial plant spec, so I couldn't recommend that for you anyways, even though there is more blue, the overall array is out of prime spec for land plants.

BTW, even though my site says it (and my investors won't get rid of it, or at least correct it to be on the proper pages,) 'Thermostatically-controlled fans' is mostly BS. Very few bare fan power/controllers are truly thermostatically controlled and have the remote sensing wire installed. Only my new 300w unit and old discontinued 120w unit (only talking about my panels, here,) have them because it was necessary to maintain diode life and proper operating temps, otherwise I'd be in a load of garbage on warranties from my own personal tests (I dunno if this new 300w I have coming is using my new aluminum/carbon mix but if it is then no thermostatically-controlled fans are needed, and I'll kill that phrase from my site entirely. I hate any sort of misleading advertising or confusing advertising.)

Anyways, ignore that rant, though you should pull some info from it and previous posts. Get that dual 90w you're looking at, it's just right for you. You'll learn about LEDs at a cheap price and have very usable panels for years to come on top of that. If you need more help, I can help, so can tons of others around here, don't rely on me for all of your information! I have my ways, others have ways maybe more suited for you, though I can at least give advice if I know your situation.

[LetsSeeYa]

Hey man, if ya have time take a peek at that sick plant in the problem section. She's giving lots now:thumbsup:. Buds are getting to be a bit bigger then a dime and the growth is looking very green and healthy. I am just hoping the buds join as one and give me big colas. I am hoping i will have to tie her to the walls and ceiling, lol. I have my lights about 18'' away from my plant, do you think i should try and move them closer? I want a monster so anything i can do to help her out il try.

My tent is up, but gotta finish this plant before all my purples go into it, but might toss them in with my CFL's as i like what they do for veg and will use them till i find something better. What im thinking is a couple led panel's for a nice box to veg in as i think i should be able to get these cheap wouldn't you think? I cant wait to get into the tent man!

Man dude those LEDs look bright as hell man, good luck with the new light your working on:thumbsup:



:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

Hey man, if ya have time take a peek at that sick plant in the problem section. She's giving lots now:thumbsup:. Buds are getting to be a bit bigger then a dime and the growth is looking very green and healthy. I am just hoping the buds join as one and give me big colas. I am hoping i will have to tie her to the walls and ceiling, lol. I have my lights about 18'' away from my plant, do you think i should try and move them closer? I want a monster so anything i can do to help her out il try.

My tent is up, but gotta finish this plant before all my purples go into it, but might toss them in with my CFL's as i like what they do for veg and will use them till i find something better. What im thinking is a couple led panel's for a nice box to veg in as i think i should be able to get these cheap wouldn't you think? I cant wait to get into the tent man!

Man dude those LEDs look bright as hell man, good luck with the new light your working on:thumbsup:



:rasta:

Keep the lights as close as possible to cover everything without burning. Twelve inches might do better.

For vegging, just get one good LED panel that will cover the tent area. In veg you don't need that much LED light as long as it's quality. 3x3 tent could be covered veg-wise with a single typical 90w UFO. Two of the 135w UFOs would just barely cover a 4x8 tent for veg.

[khyberkitsune]

FINALLY. They're here!

Now then, I wonder which tests I'm going to run?

Already did the quantum meter test and YEOWCH.

[canniwhatsis]

Nice!

Are they the same spectrums, just better diodes?

[khyberkitsune]

Nice!

Are they the same spectrums, just better diodes?

Yep! Same spectrum, same ratios, better diodes, plus anti-failure circuitry so if one diode fails the rest will continue to function as if nothing happened.

The fans are a bit noisier than before, but this is a lot more power in the same spaces, so they need to move more air.

[Dexter007]

man,how much you payd for them:D

[canniwhatsis]

Hell he DESIGNED Them! ;)

[rattlingdags]

khyberkitsune are they the same ones I brought from you UK distributer? The 165W? If they are could you post some of their technical details please? I don't have any info on their colour spectrum, diodes etc I just hoped they were as suitable as the 125W I orginally wanted before these others became suddenly available.
But the big question is what are you going to grow under those beauties?!

[IntrepidSavage]

I'm curious, what kind of wattage per sq m grow room do you recommend for LED's?

[khyberkitsune]

khyberkitsune are they the same ones I brought from you UK distributer? The 165W? If they are could you post some of their technical details please? I don't have any info on their colour spectrum, diodes etc I just hoped they were as suitable as the 125W I orginally wanted before these others became suddenly available.
But the big question is what are you going to grow under those beauties?!

Yes, they are. Technical details are 40:30:30 Blue:red:red 3w diodes single-chip diodes.

And the ones in the picture are GONE - I got robbed while doing a demonstration of the lights and had all three of my personal demo units stolen, so, I am unfortunately unable to grow anything under these, for now. Maybe on the next stock up,. :(

[khyberkitsune]

I'm curious, what kind of wattage per sq m grow room do you recommend for LED's?

One meter by one meter? 300w LED would be quite nice.

[canniwhatsis]

And the ones in the picture are GONE - I got robbed while doing a demonstration of the lights and had all three of my personal demo units stolen, so, I am unfortunately unable to grow anything under these, for now. Maybe on the next stock up,. :(

WHA!!!!? :eek: That F'n SUX! I was lookin forward to what the 3w diodes would do.

Any luck with the police?

[khyberkitsune]

WHA!!!!? :eek: That F'n SUX! I was lookin forward to what the 3w diodes would do.

Any luck with the police?

I was literally in shock, I haven't contacted the police. I can't talk at all, my throat is ragged from constantly puking pure stomach acid since about 8AM-6PM, the only food my throat can even tolerate is soup/tea (anything solid and ESPECIALLY acidic pisses it right off.)

I'm going to the station tomorrow.

I also know where the fuckers live so I'll get that handled soon enough.

I also have a tip on their 'brilliant' plan to sell my lights to the next-door dispensary.

But that place already knows I got robbed. :D So if they try it, they'll get busted.

[rattlingdags]

OMG wtf :( Thats just horrible - what lowlife bast**ds. Oh I hope they get whats coming to them, damn parasites :mad:

I'm so very sorry this went and happened; and less importantly, I was really really looking forward to reading your future log using these lights.
Damn there's crappy people in the world. At least your ok-ish though; shaken up, shocked but alive. Thats the important thing so do take care of yourself.

[khyberkitsune]

OMG wtf :( Thats just horrible - what lowlife bast**ds. Oh I hope they get whats coming to them, damn parasites :mad:

I'm so very sorry this went and happened; and less importantly, I was really really looking forward to reading your future log using these lights.
Damn there's crappy people in the world. At least your ok-ish though; shaken up, shocked but alive. Thats the important thing so do take care of yourself.

Yea. I'm firmly stuck in PTSD right now from this. Trying to eat more, it's tough, weed isn't helping with the appetite.

But. I am going to pull another set of units out, and this time THEY STAY IN THE HOUSE.

So I will get something going, but not until mid-Feb when I'm finished doing a bit of globe-trotting over to the UK.

[rattlingdags]

I expect the police aren't so helpful either?
Keep up with eating what you can, your health is more important especially with globetrotting plans :) .
Great to hear your already planning for new lights and thanks for the info on my ones. They've been great for growing very chunky, solid plants that really pile on the growth.

[khyberkitsune]

I expect the police aren't so helpful either?
Keep up with eating what you can, your health is more important especially with globetrotting plans :) .
Great to hear your already planning for new lights and thanks for the info on my ones. They've been great for growing very chunky, solid plants that really pile on the growth.

I'll get ya along with what ya have, no matter what lighting you have! :jointsmile:

[LetsSeeYa]

Yes, they are. Technical details are 40:30:30 Blue:red:red 3w diodes single-chip diodes.

And the ones in the picture are GONE - I got robbed while doing a demonstration of the lights and had all three of my personal demo units stolen, so, I am unfortunately unable to grow anything under these, for now. Maybe on the next stock up,. :(

Dude im very sorry to hear this, i know you were itching to get them burning over some nice green:(. I hate thieves, they are selfish and lazy. I really hope you get em man.

Good luck and keep us updated:thumbsup:



:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

Dude im very sorry to hear this, i know you were itching to get them burning over some nice green:(. I hate thieves, they are selfish and lazy. I really hope you get em man.

Good luck and keep us updated:thumbsup:



:rasta:


The area I was in is a 'red-zone' so cops won't do a damned thing unless it involves a homicide. :(

So, I'm stuck. Short of forming my own gang and razing the entire apartment complex to the ground, there's nothing I can do to get these lights back.

[LetsSeeYa]

The area I was in is a 'red-zone' so cops won't do a damned thing unless it involves a homicide. :(

So, I'm stuck. Short of forming my own gang and razing the entire apartment complex to the ground, there's nothing I can do to get these lights back.

Whats a ''red zone''? I live in the boonies so? To bad ya couldn't find people that dislikes the scum that ripped ya, tell em to get them back and you could do a donation to them? Not sure, it just sucks man and i really hate hearing this shit.

Id keep an eye on them and when you get good dirt, id get the cops in and say, btw those are my lights!

Hang in there man:rasta:

[canniwhatsis]

wow, that really sucks. That's about a grand worth of hardware that some schmuck is runnin around with and the cops don't care.


Good luck and hang in there brother!

[khyberkitsune]

Whats a ''red zone''? I live in the boonies so? To bad ya couldn't find people that dislikes the scum that ripped ya, tell em to get them back and you could do a donation to them? Not sure, it just sucks man and i really hate hearing this shit.

Id keep an eye on them and when you get good dirt, id get the cops in and say, btw those are my lights!

Hang in there man:rasta:


Red Zone means "Near-lawless area, all officers are at risk" So they don't go unless there's a dire need, such as homicide or fire. Similar to Pizza Delivery Red-Zones - so much bad stuff has happened to their drivers that they don't deliver to those areas.


wow, that really sucks. That's about a grand worth of hardware that some schmuck is runnin around with and the cops don't care.


Good luck and hang in there brother!

Well, those were the original prototype lights that were taken from me. Those were worth about $1500 a piece after R&D costs, so about $4500 in company property, technically.

And they got my quantum meter :( $200 bucks of something they'll never know how to use.

Thanks for the support!

[khyberkitsune]

I had to open up a 300w unit and get a picture of it illuminated, at least!

[khyberkitsune]

I finished off routing out the NFT channel lids, and got my lights hung up.

I'm going to run with my old panels again. This time, I'm only gong to use 200w. I'm NOT going to add any more. I'm just going to see what 200w (50w per 2x2 area) across 54 clones will do. I don't have very high hopes, but I am willing to bet I will at least pop GPW status no problem.

I'll cut clones when I'm back from my business trip.

[rattlingdags]

Nice to see you preparing for action again. That 300W looks very stylish.
Hope you have a successful trip in Blighty and I look forward to seeing your next grow :)

[LetsSeeYa]

I finished off routing out the NFT channel lids, and got my lights hung up.

I'm going to run with my old panels again. This time, I'm only gong to use 200w. I'm NOT going to add any more. I'm just going to see what 200w (50w per 2x2 area) across 54 clones will do. I don't have very high hopes, but I am willing to bet I will at least pop GPW status no problem.

I'll cut clones when I'm back from my business trip.


Dude im really glad your back on track and getting on with what you set out to do:thumbsup:. A lot of people told me to ''get over it'' after i was ripped last year, but i think its something that just needs to get out of your head before just moving on. But im glad your there and im sure it will not take much longer and you will get back into building that light you have been working so hard to get perfect, for your standards!

That 200w looks sweet man and 54 clones should get you a nice bunch of buds. I know il be watching man, i need all the LED info i can get, with me being all new to the inside growing and the LED'S. I have learned a bunch already from ya, but of course plenty more to improve. I posted that NL plant in the indoor section and if ya have time check it out, its looking great, just like you said it would so thanks for that.

But im just glad your back man:thumbsup:i know the feeling when you think your safe and some waste of space rips your shit, but moving on helped me and i think it will you too. Sometime things happen for a reason so maybe this will help in some messed up way, i sure am in your corner man:jointsmile:

Man ya ever think about getting a big ass dog? Most people will not even get close when they hear that nice deep ass bark! A German Shepperd would keep any and everything safe and iv had 5 in my life, they will protect you till their death and thats no shit.

Well glad ya got your lights up man, good luck with the business trip and give that dog idea a thought, ya got to many bad people around, not to mention your investments and health. Freaking cant believe ya cant even get a pizza, hell id starve, lol.


Take care bro:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

Dude im really glad your back on track and getting on with what you set out to do:thumbsup:. A lot of people told me to ''get over it'' after i was ripped last year, but i think its something that just needs to get out of your head before just moving on. But im glad your there and im sure it will not take much longer and you will get back into building that light you have been working so hard to get perfect, for your standards!

That 200w looks sweet man and 54 clones should get you a nice bunch of buds. I know il be watching man, i need all the LED info i can get, with me being all new to the inside growing and the LED'S. I have learned a bunch already from ya, but of course plenty more to improve. I posted that NL plant in the indoor section and if ya have time check it out, its looking great, just like you said it would so thanks for that.

But im just glad your back man:thumbsup:i know the feeling when you think your safe and some waste of space rips your shit, but moving on helped me and i think it will you too. Sometime things happen for a reason so maybe this will help in some messed up way, i sure am in your corner man:jointsmile:

Man ya ever think about getting a big ass dog? Most people will not even get close when they hear that nice deep ass bark! A German Shepperd would keep any and everything safe and iv had 5 in my life, they will protect you till their death and thats no shit.

Well glad ya got your lights up man, good luck with the business trip and give that dog idea a thought, ya got to many bad people around, not to mention your investments and health. Freaking cant believe ya cant even get a pizza, hell id starve, lol.


Take care bro:rasta:

Thanks man! I'd get a dog but I've got allergies, so I'm stuck with cats.

I was also at another friend's house when this robbery occurred, so maybe he should look into getting a dog!

Yea I'm going to get rolling here soon. I already picked myself up after I made back what was stolen within a week. I'm over all that (still planning on burning that whole meth hood down to the ground,) and I'm ready to get stuff done!

I've got a few clones in soil flowering right now under 50w. Doing pretty good, I think this batch might actually push past the GPW (god I hate using that term.)

[khyberkitsune]

Have a picture of the 9 clones - one looks a little half-screwed but the rest are okay minus a little nute issue - this is why I don't care much for soil except for mother plants.

[canniwhatsis]

I do em in individual quart containers, tho gallon's yield better ;)


The next time I do anything under the LED I'm planning a single plant in 3 gallons SCROGed! :pimp: Private stash stuff for sure.

[khyberkitsune]

I do em in individual quart containers, tho gallon's yield better ;)


The next time I do anything under the LED I'm planning a single plant in 3 gallons SCROGed! :pimp: Private stash stuff for sure.


Oh man that'll rock nicely!

So my main rig's GPU died. I took the heat sink off.

Look at this beast. Detach that side fan, saw down the brackets on both sides, and attach a fat 100w LED to the copper plate, with a fan on top of the heat sink.

Just need to get a 100w diode custom-made!

[canniwhatsis]

Oh man that'll rock nicely!

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. :rastasmoke: I'm kinda thinking of doing my http://boards.cannabis.com/medical-strains/192299-vanilluna-vanilla-moon.html since it's such an interesting smell.

I'm really curious how it'll do under LED!? Guess it's time for me to do another log huh? ;)


Sorry for the demijack there, How's the new panels compare to the older ones? Any kind of stats that a layman like myself would understand?:i feel stupid:


WTF exactly is that sitting in your lap?

[khyberkitsune]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. :rastasmoke: I'm kinda thinking of doing my http://boards.cannabis.com/medical-strains/192299-vanilluna-vanilla-moon.html since it's such an interesting smell.

I'm really curious how it'll do under LED!? Guess it's time for me to do another log huh? ;)


Sorry for the demijack there, How's the new panels compare to the older ones? Any kind of stats that a layman like myself would understand?:i feel stupid:


WTF exactly is that sitting in your lap?

New panels have better photon flux densities, naturally. true single-chip 3w diodes. 300w has an actual heatsink with fans while 165 and 135 are heat plates with fans.

And what's in my lap is a heat sink from my 9800GTX+ video card from my computer. It's made to keep a TDP of 150w under control so this should work out VERY nicely if I can design an LED to attach to it. I want to make a 10x10 100w grid.

[bkbbudz]

been reading a few posts and checking your pics. Seems like you really know what you are doing. Was wondering if you can offer a small piece of wisdom. I am a total newbie, never grew a single stem. But I am going to start very soon and i want to used LED. I was contemplating getting a 90 watt UFO from HTG on ebay. I read in your posts you design and build your own and wonder if you can tell me anything about their product or can steer me in the right direction. Of course they want to sell their product but they claim this thing is so great that if God needed an LED he would get theirs!

I would also use the UFO in conjunction with 4 CFL's. I am trying to do this thing right the first time. There are alot of things that can go wrong especially on my 1st grow so I want to get all the expert advice I can.

[khyberkitsune]

been reading a few posts and checking your pics. Seems like you really know what you are doing. Was wondering if you can offer a small piece of wisdom. I am a total newbie, never grew a single stem. But I am going to start very soon and i want to used LED. I was contemplating getting a 90 watt UFO from HTG on ebay. I read in your posts you design and build your own and wonder if you can tell me anything about their product or can steer me in the right direction. Of course they want to sell their product but they claim this thing is so great that if God needed an LED he would get theirs!

I would also use the UFO in conjunction with 4 CFL's. I am trying to do this thing right the first time. There are alot of things that can go wrong especially on my 1st grow so I want to get all the expert advice I can.

Pardon me for the late reply, I'm in the UK right now performing new tests on stuff with my boss.

I have used HTG. For a vegetative panel, it's good, but it needs more blue during the flowering stage IMHO. If you were to go with HTG, I would supplement with 6500K CFL or other efficient fluorescent type lamps.

Do not use the fluorescents for underlighting. Chlorophyll has a one-way reaction path, this has been proven in centrifugal-separated samples of chlorophyll. If you took a test tube of chlorophyll, put it in front of red and blue light (between you and the light source,) it would pass through and you'd see purple. If you were to place a light source at nearly your same position (say right at your side, you holding onto the lamp pole,) and hold the tube of chlorophyll in front of you and the light, you would get a majority of the light reflected back to you depending upon how little you disturb the test tube of centrifuged chlorophyll, and it would appear green. With this in mind, use the fluorescents for inner-canopy lighting if you have a deep canopy - just a simple tiny thin glass or plastic case to keep the plant from being burned will be sufficient without causing detrimental losses.

If you want to talk more about this personally, feel free to use the contact buttons that you see at the top right of each of my posts (AIM, Yahoo, Skype icons.) I might be slow to respond, depends on what I'm doing at that moment, but I will help you out. And if I can't, I'll direct you to Stra8outtaweed or Weezard, who will have a fair share of their own to say and can likely help you further on stuff I haven't done test-wise yet (They pretty much cover what I haven't done test-wise so they can give you the straight dope, no pun intended!)

[khyberkitsune]

I'm back from the UK!

Have a look at my real stuff, ladies and gents.

Video - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (http://tinypic.com/r/2r5gleg/7)

Got questions? I have answers!

[rattlingdags]

Hey welcome home :)
I was reading that companies website a while ago and was pretty impressed with the potential for that form of growing to provide suppliment livestock feed. Would have been something I would have wanted to try myself if it had been around a few years ago.
Looks like you had a good trip then :thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

Looks good bro! :thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

Hey welcome home :)
I was reading that companies website a while ago and was pretty impressed with the potential for that form of growing to provide suppliment livestock feed. Would have been something I would have wanted to try myself if it had been around a few years ago.
Looks like you had a good trip then :thumbsup:

Quite a good trip, very productive, got TONS done in the space of three days.


Looks good bro! :thumbsup:

Oh man, just wait! Soon we're going to be building one of these testing facilities here and I'm going to have to hire a few gardeners/maintainers.

[LetsSeeYa]

Cool man, glad to hear your trip went well:thumbsup:and im pumped to know ya got some green going on bro:jointsmile:


As always il be watching man:thumbsup:



:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

Cool man, glad to hear your trip went well:thumbsup:and im pumped to know ya got some green going on bro:jointsmile:


As always il be watching man:thumbsup:



:rasta:

Secret harvest finished!

This was done under 140w total of LED. Hindu skunk up close (9 clones force-flowered,) GDP the rest of the way down (one single plant vegged three weeks and flowered same time as clones.)

90w UFO for the GDP, 9 clones under a 50w micro-UFO. Both units using 1w diodes.

Can't wait to see the dry weight. The clones were done in soil, the GDP done in a 2 gallon DWC.

[bkbbudz]

Greetings,

Been reading your posts and I wanted to get your opinion since you seem to be quite knowledgable. I m a newbie grower about too embark on my first adventure. I purchased a g3 90w UFO from HTG, what do you think of their product? I am using it in conjunction with 4 high wattage CFLs. My tent is 100% mylar interior and is 36"w x 20"d x 64"h. Thanks!

[khyberkitsune]

Greetings,

Been reading your posts and I wanted to get your opinion since you seem to be quite knowledgable. I m a newbie grower about too embark on my first adventure. I purchased a g3 90w UFO from HTG, what do you think of their product? I am using it in conjunction with 4 high wattage CFLs. My tent is 100% mylar interior and is 36"w x 20"d x 64"h. Thanks!

Price is too low to be any good, IMHO. Under $2/w? You're looking at cheap low-bin diodes and poor construction.

[LetsSeeYa]

Secret harvest finished!

This was done under 140w total of LED. Hindu skunk up close (9 clones force-flowered,) GDP the rest of the way down (one single plant vegged three weeks and flowered same time as clones.)

90w UFO for the GDP, 9 clones under a 50w micro-UFO. Both units using 1w diodes.

Can't wait to see the dry weight. The clones were done in soil, the GDP done in a 2 gallon DWC.

How long did they take to finish?

A secret grow, i can dig it:thumbsup:nice looking buds man. I wondered if ya might peek at my thread in the indoor section and give me a clue as to if these plants are going to out grow my 5'. I was planing on a possible scrog, but then was thinking of just putting the lights in and going 12/12 after the NL is finished, im hoping 2 weeks. I will re pot into 1 gal pots with the Bio Tone and only give water throughout the entire 12/12 to lose the Nitrogen. My hydro guy thinks because im not using too much from one pot to the next il be cool, but really dont want that taste. And looking at some of the LED grows, i am afraid il run out of room in the tent if i just let them grow out as is? But i would really like to see that tent filled with green:D

Just thought id get your take man:jointsmile:



Have fun with the GDP:rasta:

[Shovelhandle]

very cool bunch of buds, Bub. :stoned:

[khyberkitsune]

How long did they take to finish?

A secret grow, i can dig it:thumbsup:nice looking buds man. I wondered if ya might peek at my thread in the indoor section and give me a clue as to if these plants are going to out grow my 5'. I was planing on a possible scrog, but then was thinking of just putting the lights in and going 12/12 after the NL is finished, im hoping 2 weeks. I will re pot into 1 gal pots with the Bio Tone and only give water throughout the entire 12/12 to lose the Nitrogen. My hydro guy thinks because im not using too much from one pot to the next il be cool, but really dont want that taste. And looking at some of the LED grows, i am afraid il run out of room in the tent if i just let them grow out as is? But i would really like to see that tent filled with green:D

Just thought id get your take man:jointsmile:



Have fun with the GDP:rasta:

They both took 10 weeks of full flowering. The GDP was given a chance to veg for a few weeks first while I waited for the clones to set root.

You might want to get some weights and kinda pull the branches down a bit, depending upon how deep you are into it, because they're gonna be rolling for a few weeks of flowering until they stop stretching and start filling.

You just might outgrow that 5ft, man. If you're not TOO far into flowering, don't be afraid to supercrop/HST those babies.

[bkbbudz]

Price is too low to be any good, IMHO. Under $2/w? You're looking at cheap low-bin diodes and poor construction.

Thanks I will keep that in mind. At this point I am committed financially and by time to use this product now. If I am unhappy with the results I will re post for suggestions on replacements.

[StickyBuds1987]

ah looking at all these indoor threads makes me wish i could grow indoors so bad haha hurry up spring i need to grow haha nice buds man by the way

[khyberkitsune]

ah looking at all these indoor threads makes me wish i could grow indoors so bad haha hurry up spring i need to grow haha nice buds man by the way

Thank you!

I'm actually moving into a new house soon, so I'm holding off on growing anything else until I get into my new place!

[clongo]

I'm nearly led illiterate, but I would like to become educated enough to design and build my own panels. Could ya walk me through it khyber or point me where someone already explained how, I'm having a tough time understanding how to get the amount of micromoles I want in the most efficient way.

[khyberkitsune]

I'm nearly led illiterate, but I would like to become educated enough to design and build my own panels. Could ya walk me through it khyber or point me where someone already explained how, I'm having a tough time understanding how to get the amount of micromoles I want in the most efficient way.

Well, I can walk you through a simple serial construction. Get the most efficient diodes at your chosen wavelengths, then in a line add together all of the voltages since you are doing a serial connection (usually blues range from 3.2v-3.6 and reds from 2.2-2.8v) and then find a driver pushing that voltage at about 300-500mA.

I leave it to you as to how you mount your diodes, and your heatsink configuration. Eventually you'll learn how to add in fail-safe diodes to keep power flowing to the rest of the chain should one light actually fail.

It's pretty simple once you understand the basics of electricity - go snag a couple Google books or read up on Khan Academy!

[LetsSeeYa]

They both took 10 weeks of full flowering. The GDP was given a chance to veg for a few weeks first while I waited for the clones to set root.

You might want to get some weights and kinda pull the branches down a bit, depending upon how deep you are into it, because they're gonna be rolling for a few weeks of flowering until they stop stretching and start filling.

You just might outgrow that 5ft, man. If you're not TOO far into flowering, don't be afraid to supercrop/HST those babies.

Thanks man, thats a good idea to use weights:thumbsup:never woulda thought of that. I got 9 days and the tent will get the LED's installed inside. The plants in the tent are under CFL's now in veg. I had no other options, but to finish the NL first. Some are a good size, but 2 are tall, which il have to do something with. I think il re pot them, bend em and flip the lights. I want to put the LED's in and go straight into 12/12 with these plants.

My hydro guy thinks the gal containers will get me through flower, but im thinking at least 3 gal at least.

Thanks bro:rasta:

[khyberkitsune]

Thanks man, thats a good idea to use weights:thumbsup:never woulda thought of that. I got 9 days and the tent will get the LED's installed inside. The plants in the tent are under CFL's now in veg. I had no other options, but to finish the NL first. Some are a good size, but 2 are tall, which il have to do something with. I think il re pot them, bend em and flip the lights. I want to put the LED's in and go straight into 12/12 with these plants.

My hydro guy thinks the gal containers will get me through flower, but im thinking at least 3 gal at least.

Thanks bro:rasta:

3 gallons minimum, for sure.