LED Ahoy!

[khyberkitsune]

Yep, been a while. Been working in my secret garden and never take pictures.

Had to have my friend take pics for me and send them on.

Look at those fat buds. Way better than the 1000w HPS + 200w LED, just needed to up LED wattage to nearly 600.

Certainly a drastic difference in bud formation with the additional LED power compared with my last grow.

[rattlingdags]

That first plant - wow she's a thing of beauty. They all look great :)
How long did you veg them for? We're thinking of trying to make some extra height to enable us to veg for maybe a month (instead of just 2 weeks) and I'm wondering how well my led's would penetrate the leafy indica foliage if I let them grow out longer?

[mrorganics]

looking good theres been more and more hype about LEDs pros and cons but hey they look nice so whatever works for you, plus the electric bill isnt as bad as some of us, lol well ill keep up on how they do ferther along in flowering i havent seen a plant go all the way threw on leds and am anxious to c how they do..love from the glove...420...

[khyberkitsune]

That first plant - wow she's a thing of beauty. They all look great :)
How long did you veg them for? We're thinking of trying to make some extra height to enable us to veg for maybe a month (instead of just 2 weeks) and I'm wondering how well my led's would penetrate the leafy indica foliage if I let them grow out longer?

The veg period was a month, as these were all from seed and needed to mature. Notice the Smile, which towered above everything else, going so far as to grow above the LEDs and HPS.

people think LEDs don't penetrate. You can't really see it but if you took a quantum meter below your canopy you'd be able to know how well it is penetrating.

Considering those are 1w diodes in the panels, I'd say they penetrate pretty well.

[khyberkitsune]

looking good theres been more and more hype about LEDs pros and cons but hey they look nice so whatever works for you, plus the electric bill isnt as bad as some of us, lol well ill keep up on how they do ferther along in flowering i havent seen a plant go all the way threw on leds and am anxious to c how they do..love from the glove...420...

Read my entire LED Ahoy thread, check out stra8outtaweed's LED Grow Show, and Weezard's LED grows. Plenty of 'em done from start to finish.

[mrorganics]

WOW those lights are really awsome man I was going to buy a UFO but ended up gettn a 400 watt system in stead but ya jeez mad growth in that amount of time

[StoneMeadow]

Really, really nice, khyber...mad props! I'm looking forward to seeing the yield.

If I ever go to lights I'm going LED. Thanks...and keep up the good work!

[khyberkitsune]

Really, really nice, khyber...mad props! I'm looking forward to seeing the yield.

If I ever go to lights I'm going LED. Thanks...and keep up the good work!

Yield total was just shy of two pounds of bud. I'm going to take all of the trim and let my O.Chem. guy run multiple extracts on the material. He can get about 98% of everything right out of the plant in multiple different grades from green and gold oils to dark tars. Probably looking at about another half pound of that possibly given we've got just over half a pound of trim.

[rattlingdags]

The veg period was a month, as these were all from seed and needed to mature. Notice the Smile, which towered above everything else, going so far as to grow above the LEDs and HPS.

people think LEDs don't penetrate. You can't really see it but if you took a quantum meter below your canopy you'd be able to know how well it is penetrating.

Considering those are 1w diodes in the panels, I'd say they penetrate pretty well.


:) Thanks for that. I was wavering but not now.

[khyberkitsune]

:) Thanks for that. I was wavering but not now.

Just make sure you get some panels with more blue in them. As you see, it definitely makes a huge difference. The plants in the middle primarily under HPS were nowhere near as frosty as the plants mostly under LED.

[canniwhatsis]

Figured I'd toss in my LED flowering pic,.... single plant SCROG under 120w LED. (no HPS) Not sure how long in as I forgot to wright down the date, but it's less than half way there! :pimp:

[rattlingdags]

Just make sure you get some panels with more blue in them. As you see, it definitely makes a huge difference. The plants in the middle primarily under HPS were nowhere near as frosty as the plants mostly under LED.

Thats a handy tip thanks. Could I make do by adding some 6500K fluro's? Hubby brought some home recently and I had my eye on a couple for the bloomers. Would love to get some more LED's but finances don't allow it just yet.

[khyberkitsune]

Thats a handy tip thanks. Could I make do by adding some 6500K fluro's? Hubby brought some home recently and I had my eye on a couple for the bloomers. Would love to get some more LED's but finances don't allow it just yet.

Yes you could supplement with 6500K CFL no problem!

[omnibuddy]

Yes you could supplement with 6500K CFL no problem!

I use UVB supplement specifically to add crystals to the plant. UVB is a key spectrum involved in the THC creation process. You get these at your local reptile pet store and they fit a normal light socket. Highly recommended.

[khyberkitsune]

I use UVB supplement specifically to add crystals to the plant. UVB is a key spectrum involved in the THC creation process. You get these at your local reptile pet store and they fit a normal light socket. Highly recommended.

Actually most fluorescents emit UVB - they utilize two mercury lines, in UVA and UVB range to generate light. It just depends on the glass type as to how much UVB you'll get. Also, almost nobody shows UV or IR spectrum for fluorescents, and while there's not much IR there's plenty of UV.

[319]

I have a little bit of extra cash and have been reading about the benefits of vegging under LED. What LED size would replace a 600 MH? Hopefully it will cover a 4x4 area.

Thanks for your time.

[khyberkitsune]

I have a little bit of extra cash and have been reading about the benefits of vegging under LED. What LED size would replace a 600 MH? Hopefully it will cover a 4x4 area.

Thanks for your time.

Replace a 600wMH for veg. You can do that with a 120w or higher LED panel.

[319]

Thanks will look into it. Might shoot you a PM later.

[khyberkitsune]

No PM system installed on this forum.

Feel free to contact me via AIM, Yahoo, MSN, Skype, etc. I prefer AIM, Yahoo, or Skype. MSN is a pain.

[khyberkitsune]

Haven't updated - haven't been doing much besides my food crops.

I thought I'd share some intensity information I had managed to collect before I was robbed a while back.

Awhile back I needed to figure out the umol output from HID lamps. I only managed to get data from a 1,000w HPS.

The HPS registers the edge of sunlight intensity (2,000 umol) inside of a hood at about 18" away.

150w LED hits that same edge about 9 inches away.

So, assuming everything is done properly, in theory, 300w LED *SHOULD* be equivalent to a 1000w HPS.

We likely have to wait a few more years for some of the newer tech to mature and produce even higher photon flux densities.

Just remember this - cannabis burns around 4,000 umol. Wherever that 2,000 umol range is, cut that in half - that's your maximum recomended height. For example, 150w hits 2,000 at 9 inches, 4.5 inches, it's 4,000 umol.

LEDs can and WILL burn your plants!

[rattlingdags]

Thats really interesting to read as I've had problems in the past with my plants burning when they start to get close to my led's - usually at 15cm away. Up until that height the plants are brilliant, grew like nothing else. At first I was thinking that you can't burn plants with led's and assumed it was me overfeeding, but no I came to realise that it was the lights being too close and that I couldn't in fact have them as close as what I'd read.
What you've written confirms I did the right thing by backing them off. Thanks for that

[khyberkitsune]

Thats really interesting to read as I've had problems in the past with my plants burning when they start to get close to my led's - usually at 15cm away. Up until that height the plants are brilliant, grew like nothing else. At first I was thinking that you can't burn plants with led's and assumed it was me overfeeding, but no I came to realise that it was the lights being too close and that I couldn't in fact have them as close as what I'd read.
What you've written confirms I did the right thing by backing them off. Thanks for that

The common misconceptionis that heat is hurting the plants. That's only part of the equation. WHat happens is chlorophyll breaks down and is rebuilt constantly. However, there's only so much light it can take before it begins breaking down faster than it can regenerate. This causes the bleaching, and heat is only a compounding issue once oyu hit very high levels of photon flux.

[rattlingdags]

Ah that explains the first symptom that I noticed - how the leaves actually become bleached, they also became almost like fine parchment in texture.

[khyberkitsune]

I have noticed something. It seems the plants can tolerate the light much more in veg. I didn't really get bleaching issues until flowering in all the times I encountered bleaching.

I'm certain this is strain-dependent, however I could be wrong. I had a similar issue with the old White Widow I grew under HPS/T5HO

[khyberkitsune]

Had a harvest of a different sort. Plenty of weight here from a measly 200w LED.

Now to go clean the NFT system out and restart it back in the old 4 channel config, so I can have that free bench space for other stuff.

[rattlingdags]

Ohh yummm they look wonderful. What a great haul just from 200W :) That's got me planning to sneak in some greens around the girls for over the winter... The climate here for most of the year is so awful for outside vegetables but I really love to grow my own. They always seem to taste so much nicer.

[Egzoset]

Hello Khyberkitsune,

I've started reading about LED lamps for cannabis growing a few days ago and i notice there are at least six bands which play some significant role in the plant's development:

310 nm (UVB)
455 nm Blue (chlorophyll-A)
475 nm Blue (chlorophyll-B)
625 nm Red (chlorophyll-B)
665 nm Red (chlorophyll-A)
735 nm (Near Infra-Red)

Of course i suppose those numbers are approximative. Power levels and power level ratios appear to be equally important, depending on the plant's development phase.

To your knowledge, can you tell me please if there's a manufacturer who's trying to build a lamp with that many bands where colours can be controlled individually to account for vegetal cycles such as vegging, flowering, etc.?

[khyberkitsune]

Hello Khyberkitsune,

I've started reading about LED lamps for cannabis growing a few days ago and i notice there are at least six bands which play some significant role in the plant's development:

310 nm (UVB)
455 nm Blue (chlorophyll-A)
475 nm Blue (chlorophyll-B)
625 nm Red (chlorophyll-B)
665 nm Red (chlorophyll-A)
735 nm (Near Infra-Red)

Of course i suppose those numbers are approximative. Power levels and power level ratios appear to be equally important, depending on the plant's development phase.

To your knowledge, can you tell me please if there's a manufacturer who's trying to build a lamp with that many bands where colours can be controlled individually to account for vegetal cycles such as vegging, flowering, etc.?

No, AFAIK there are no proper scientifically-controlled/tested light studies besides the ones conducted by John Lydon. I'm the only one that is following the actual research, everyone else is advertising multiple bands (11+) of light as if it were something to work with, when in reality, it isn't. Thank you, wikipedia readers, for fudging the real movement.

[khyberkitsune]

Alrighty! Apologies for being incommunicado, I've been busy moving into my new place and preparing for my next grow, since I'm no longer contractually bound to not cultivate it.

So prepare for a grow update very soon!

[LetsSeeYa]

Alrighty! Apologies for being incommunicado, I've been busy moving into my new place and preparing for my next grow, since I'm no longer contractually bound to not cultivate it.

So prepare for a grow update very soon!


Hey khyber my fellow LED grow brotha:thumbsup:, looks like i made it here just in time for your grow show. Iv been reading a bunch and trying to attempt a scrog:wtf:. Sad thing is i cant think of a way to make a screen, but whats worse is im so broke i cant buy anything. But im working on it.

I also hope ya dont mind i put this pic up. I just have something that looks like lack of N, but was reading about off gassing and was wondering if you have ever seen it. My tent isnt the best as far as ''name brand'' so im not sure just what im working with here.

Iv missed the site a lot and would like to start a thread here, after all this site is where i got all the help and information to get to where im at now.

Sure glad ya have this thread still going, i get a lot from it for sure. Like as of now my lights are about two feet away, but your saying i can get threm closer? Great:thumbsup:. Maybe you can take a look at the pic and tell me what you think. You know what lights im burning and got the experience to give me great info.

So any help, i sure would appricate it like always bro:jointsmile:



LSY

[khyberkitsune]

Hey khyber my fellow LED grow brotha:thumbsup:, looks like i made it here just in time for your grow show. Iv been reading a bunch and trying to attempt a scrog:wtf:. Sad thing is i cant think of a way to make a screen, but whats worse is im so broke i cant buy anything. But im working on it.

I also hope ya dont mind i put this pic up. I just have something that looks like lack of N, but was reading about off gassing and was wondering if you have ever seen it. My tent isnt the best as far as ''name brand'' so im not sure just what im working with here.

Iv missed the site a lot and would like to start a thread here, after all this site is where i got all the help and information to get to where im at now.

Sure glad ya have this thread still going, i get a lot from it for sure. Like as of now my lights are about two feet away, but your saying i can get threm closer? Great:thumbsup:. Maybe you can take a look at the pic and tell me what you think. You know what lights im burning and got the experience to give me great info.

So any help, i sure would appricate it like always bro:jointsmile:



LSY

Looks like classic N def to me. If you have good ventilation in the tent you shouldn't have to worry about off-gassing, and really you should still have good ventilation and airflow going regardless of your light source.

I would get the light as close as possible while still maintaining even coverage. That will likely be just a few inches closer, not much at all.

I'll be whipping up a new setup shortly, I just need to obtain my own tent.

[khyberkitsune]

Tent purchased. 2x4. Don't need it big, don't need it tall! Just need good airspace and room for my NFT!

[khyberkitsune]

Heres a couple of shots of where everything will be set up.

Still gotta finish sweeping the other areas. No mylar, gonna try to snag some whiteboard at the bare minimum to pop on the walls. Not needing mylar for the tent since it's lined with reflective stuff.

Oh, and that's some Jalapeno visible in the pics.

[rattlingdags]

:thumbsup: Great to see your about ready to crank things up again. What strains have you got to use?

LSY welcome back :)

[LetsSeeYa]

Thanks bro, i thank you for taking a look. Looks like a great new set up man! Thats one sweet looking plant in the last page. I have all purples in my tent and would kill for a beauty like that plant you grew out. But its only my first run from seed in the tent, but the lights flowered up that NL i had so much issues with. I have 3 outta showing fem so far, but going 12/12 will show me in a day or so.



:thumbsup: Great to see your about ready to crank things up again. What strains have you got to use?

LSY welcome back :)

Thanks for the welcome ratt! Everything is or has purple and the bigger ones are WW x Purple Haze and a really good Indica. The Indica's are small but mighty as i grew one out and really liked it. Great for the pain for sure and thats what im looking for.

Once i flip them i will start a thread, but i would like to scrog the WW x Purple Haze and ave not found a screen to help make things easier on me. I have an idea and will find out today if it will work.

But im thinking i better re pot them before i put them under the screen. I hope its not long cuz im better this round then last grow. I did a lot of pinching and bending, with all of them topped. I did not do any of this last run and it showed in the yield, but great quality.


Looks like classic N def to me. If you have good ventilation in the tent you shouldn't have to worry about off-gassing, and really you should still have good ventilation and airflow going regardless of your light source.

I would get the light as close as possible while still maintaining even coverage. That will likely be just a few inches closer, not much at all.

I'll be whipping up a new setup shortly, I just need to obtain my own tent.

Thanks bro, i thank you for taking a look. Looks like a great new set up man! Thats one sweet looking plant in the last page. I have all purples in my tent and would kill for a beauty like that plant you grew out. But its only my first run from seed in the tent, but the lights flowered up that NL i had so much issues with. I have 3 outta 4 showing fem so far, but going 12/12 will show me in a day or so.

Well i hit them with a bigger dose of N yesturday. I am using Earth Juice and not pleased at all with it, so i used some Fox Farm for its much more N content, i sure hope it works.


Thanks for the feed back!


LSY

[khyberkitsune]

NEWSFLASH!

BBC News - Nursery effect study shows trees remember their roots (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14105631)

That's right, your favorite strain will eventually adapt itself to your conditions and change

Something I've said for years from experience as a landrace breeder, now finally given much more scientific weight.

Bet those RIU guys are pissing themselves, if they even keep track of these things - this very subject once got me BANNED from there, LOL!

[rattlingdags]

How fascinating that that should occur in the plant world. It reminds me of what we'd see all the time in animals but in plants its made all the more interesting.
Nice article :)
khyber what strains are you going to be running in your new setup?

[khyberkitsune]

How fascinating that that should occur in the plant world. It reminds me of what we'd see all the time in animals but in plants its made all the more interesting.
Nice article :)
khyber what strains are you going to be running in your new setup?

Not sure yet but I have my eye on Stella if any of the seeds I found end up producing females. Might go for Skywalker. Not sure really, whatever I have most handy, most likely!

The tent arrived in rapid order! It's set up minus the fan/ventilation. Great deal, great delivery! Two or three days!

[LetsSeeYa]

Nice looking tent bro! I feed some Grow Big and it gave me the N i needed. Thanks bro!




LSY

[khyberkitsune]

Glad that worked out for ya!

I finished the full setup, everything is operational now. All I need are clones!

[LetsSeeYa]

Looks sweet man are ya going to run 36 plants? And from clone depending on strain, how long will the take, around 6-8 weeks? I am going to get a mom this time and not run myself out again. I have a cloner now so with a mom, i should have a good continuous yield about ever couple months or so. I need to get through a cycle to see just how long the strain will take to be vegged enough for half scrog and half cola plants. I am sorta splitting my tent to run this way, only to try an get a giant big ass cola on a plant or two.

Sure wish i could have gotten some venting, its high is 92, but they seem like they are taking it well. But i open the tent all day so my worries will be when i flip here in a couple days. I just need to re pot 3 more and ran outta soil, but my friend is making a scrog screen today. I cant wait bro, i think iv done it right so far and want to step this grow up to the top. And one plant, i am hoping for one big ass bud thats really thick and potent. If i had some venting, which i will after fall, i want a 150hps to add when i flower. But for now venting is a priority. I would have never made it this far without my LED's, they sure rock dont they bro?

Get some damn clones man! BTW what lights are ya going to run in your new set-up?


Peace bro,


LSY

[khyberkitsune]

Looks sweet man are ya going to run 36 plants? And from clone depending on strain, how long will the take, around 6-8 weeks? I am going to get a mom this time and not run myself out again. I have a cloner now so with a mom, i should have a good continuous yield about ever couple months or so. I need to get through a cycle to see just how long the strain will take to be vegged enough for half scrog and half cola plants. I am sorta splitting my tent to run this way, only to try an get a giant big ass cola on a plant or two.

Sure wish i could have gotten some venting, its high is 92, but they seem like they are taking it well. But i open the tent all day so my worries will be when i flip here in a couple days. I just need to re pot 3 more and ran outta soil, but my friend is making a scrog screen today. I cant wait bro, i think iv done it right so far and want to step this grow up to the top. And one plant, i am hoping for one big ass bud thats really thick and potent. If i had some venting, which i will after fall, i want a 150hps to add when i flower. But for now venting is a priority. I would have never made it this far without my LED's, they sure rock dont they bro?

Get some damn clones man! BTW what lights are ya going to run in your new set-up?


Peace bro,


LSY

Yep, going to run all 36 sites at once instead of a staggered rotation for a perpetual bi-monthly small harvest. Depending upon strain (trying for heavy indica) between 8-10 weeks will be the flowering time.

I'm trying to get clones, but acquiring them is a pain with very little available funding.

I'll be using a single EGL-300 (150w) LED unit for the 2x4 area.

Speaking of my company, odds are it's about to shutter its doors - TO BE BOUGHT OUT BY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ELECTRONICS COMPANIES ON THE PLANET.

Retirement at 29 years old? :D

[omnibuddy]

Glad that worked out for ya!

I finished the full setup, everything is operational now. All I need are clones!

That's looking great! I was reading that SOG technique provids strong top colas and a "weak" or "immature" under-canopy that is ideal for cloning from. Supposedly this also reduces/eliminates the need for a mother plant and will save you on electricity and space. It will be very interesting to see how much you are able to shorten your cycle and what kind of yields it provides. What are your plans/idea for propagating your next batch?

[khyberkitsune]

That's looking great! I was reading that SOG technique provids strong top colas and a "weak" or "immature" under-canopy that is ideal for cloning from. Supposedly this also reduces/eliminates the need for a mother plant and will save you on electricity and space. It will be very interesting to see how much you are able to shorten your cycle and what kind of yields it provides. What are your plans/idea for propagating your next batch?

I am going to just start with a mother plant, get her large enough to get all the clones from, and get it rolling. Couple weeks before harvest, clip a fresh set of clones and get them ready for the system the day of harvest.

Shortening the cycle is an entirely different matter. Flowering immediately from root onset is about as short as you can make it go, everything else is dependent upon the strain.