Early Female ID

[WashougalWonder]

I am sure I will hear about this. I have do documentation to prove this other than my observances over the last 1.5 decades.

I believe in it enough I took a plant that had not shown and put it in the flower room. Did that exactly 7 days ago. Today it showed.

I have a theory. I did identify this as a female on day one of germination. My only proof is a friend, and my word. You don't wanna believe, then so be it, don't be nasty. I am posting in advanced so I don't mess with newbies heads. Chripes they worry too much for this old fart.

So, my theory is:

If a seedling comes out of the soil and there is dark red streaking or dark red stem watch this closely for signs of being a female.

Additional signs are red streaks in the main stem. Red 'dots' on the petioles. NO red in the leave veins (which is a deficiency). The petioles may even have red streaking.

I germinated 3 of the same species, one showed today, another I killed today because of poor phenotropism, and the last one is still in veg and not showing. I believe that one is a female too, but it is growing quite differently from it's sibling.

Conversely, Male seedlings are green stalk. No red in the petioles, they also are green. They grow faster, taller, leaner and using those criteria, I have not been wrong yet.

Maybe this is just a fluke. But someone or something I read somewhere a long time ago in a land far, far away....(back to life now) I heard this. I did not believe it. I think I do now.

There are additional little indicators, like the parts I call the spurs. They seem to look more like crossed swords early in life whereas in males they just look like pointy things sticking up.

I know I came outta no where. I do try hard to document and have references for what I state. This time it is just experience.

Are there people that agree with me? I am sure we have dissidents. Like I say I cannot prove this, but golly gee, if I am risking $300 seeds and just throwing them in a flower room, I sorta believe in what I am doing, I am not a risk taker.

Have a good un.

[WashougalWonder]

Note the red (dark streaks) in the stalk and the dots (darkened area in the bases) in the petioles, the spurs are arched, and if you look really close you can see the first pistil.

[WashougalWonder]

This is such a fricking awesome hobby.:thumbsup:

[wyldeganja30]

I am gonna test this. becousei have also noticed the streaks in females. also i believe males grow taller a lot faster than females. this has been true in all my grows. ill support this one.:rasta:

[WashougalWonder]

Took a couple more pictures to see if I can show the difference between normal 'female red' and K defiency. The first 2 photos are the top and bottom of the petiole as it meets the leaf. Note how it does not extend into the leaf circulatory system. See the red dots, and how on the second picture, they are mostly on the 'sunny' side of the petiole and not on the bottom

Finally the 3rd picture is a plant recovering from K defiency (and that is the only way I could be sure that was what it was, since it improved after that supplement.) Note how the red extends into the leaf veins. That signals some sort of deficiency. Unfortunately, several deficiencies will do this, so to claim it is always a K deficiency is bull.

What I am trying to show is how the female presents with her reds. Look in your own garden.

[azdesertdweller]

ahahahaha...YES !!...i think i scored.....red all over on sprouting(stems,stalk)ahhh...gotta love surfin the good stuff:thumbsup:

[gypski]

I am sure I will hear about this. I have do documentation to prove this other than my observances over the last 1.5 decades.

I believe in it enough I took a plant that had not shown and put it in the flower room. Did that exactly 7 days ago. Today it showed.

I have a theory. I did identify this as a female on day one of germination. My only proof is a friend, and my word. You don't wanna believe, then so be it, don't be nasty. I am posting in advanced so I don't mess with newbies heads. Chripes they worry too much for this old fart.

So, my theory is:

If a seedling comes out of the soil and there is dark red streaking or dark red stem watch this closely for signs of being a female.

Additional signs are red streaks in the main stem. Red 'dots' on the petioles. NO red in the leave veins (which is a deficiency). The petioles may even have red streaking.

I germinated 3 of the same species, one showed today, another I killed today because of poor phenotropism, and the last one is still in veg and not showing. I believe that one is a female too, but it is growing quite differently from it's sibling.

Conversely, Male seedlings are green stalk. No red in the petioles, they also are green. They grow faster, taller, leaner and using those criteria, I have not been wrong yet.

Maybe this is just a fluke. But someone or something I read somewhere a long time ago in a land far, far away....(back to life now) I heard this. I did not believe it. I think I do now.

There are additional little indicators, like the parts I call the spurs. They seem to look more like crossed swords early in life whereas in males they just look like pointy things sticking up.

I know I came outta no where. I do try hard to document and have references for what I state. This time it is just experience.

Are there people that agree with me? I am sure we have dissidents. Like I say I cannot prove this, but golly gee, if I am risking $300 seeds and just throwing them in a flower room, I sorta believe in what I am doing, I am not a risk taker.

Have a good un.

I'm on board with ya. Now about the crater in the seed being female. Any results? :thumbsup:

[emilya]

If a seedling comes out of the soil and there is dark red streaking or dark red stem watch this closely for signs of being a female.

Additional signs are red streaks in the main stem. Red 'dots' on the petioles. NO red in the leave veins (which is a deficiency). The petioles may even have red streaking.

Conversely, Male seedlings are green stalk. No red in the petioles, they also are green. They grow faster, taller, leaner and using those criteria, I have not been wrong yet.

I am pretty sure that I have results from my experiment using this theory.
Out of 4 plants, I am pleased to report 3 successful identifications at day 6 with a good argument that we actually identified the 4th one also and were 100% accurate !

Please reference this post: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/193618-emmies-grow-log-white-widow.html#post2167903, post #8

As predicted, #1 is a male, #2 is female, #3 is male and #4 seems to have possibly hermied on us due to stress... if it was actually going to be female this Early ID was 100% accurate just based on color at day 6!

Even at 75% accuracy, this is exciting... I can't wait to try this again!

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Thank you Emmie for all your work in documenting this. I would hope that others would also do a grow and track this as your start was very rocky and stressful on the plants. I am so glad it worked.

[canniwhatsis]

I've stopped cloning for a while as I work on my grafting project and plan on cracking some beans.


I'm hoping for a male Vanilluna so i can breed more seeds, and some girls of some of the other strains.

Over next week I plan on doing the "Crater" check on the beans and doing some germinating,.... Mind if I track em here or should I start my own thread? :S5:

[WashougalWonder]

Let's try to keep results only here, I have a bean experiment going as well, looking for a male.

The best of course would be to prove the bean theory. I do so appreciate the ask CannaW

[Stomper420]

This is such a fricking awesome hobby.:thumbsup:

DITTO, Im truley hooked on this shit:thumbsup:

[carolinakanbus]

:rastasmoke:you r right on with that!! noticed it myself the red streak.....

[oldhaole]

Below is a pic of a red stem Jack Herer male. It had the red stem from germination to now. It may be the exception to the rule, but I don't know.

I've also found out that some strains (bloodweed comes to mind) almst all of the starts have red in the stem. About one in ten has a green stem. But that could be genitic.

We are in the process of starting several hundred of seeds for long season. I will mark the ones with the red stems. A big sample size will answer your question better than a small one. I should have the results in a couple of months

[WashougalWonder]

That sure would be wonderful if you would do that.

[Rusty Trichome]

If doing that many seeds, one could also check the 'point of attachment' for sexing viability using that techniquee, too. A little extra work, but the benefit is in the quantity you'd be testing. :thumbsup:

[oldhaole]

A ways back I told Weez to forget about seeds showing sex early thru seed traits. Told him to let God sort them out.

Looking for red stems on my sprouts does not strike me as very hard to do.

Now you want me to look at point af attachment? WTF? Sure I will do it, but I haven't a clue what to look for.

So tell me what to look for. I've got to crack a bunch, might as well find out if there is any truth to this.

But a step by step of what I am to looking at would be helpful.

[Rusty Trichome]

Was kinda kidding, as it would be much more work. And under a magnifying glass, at that. But if interested...
Some more charts n stuff (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/25876-some-more-charts-stuff.html#post279514)
(the chart on the left)
I'm doubtful of this method being viable though. A bud packed with seeds can have an effect of pulling and bending other seeds, and I'd think that this could skew results. But I haven't given the technique a fair chance, either.

[tikiroom]

oldhaole,

If you decide to take on this task Weezard had a good idea how to presort the seeds. He said to roll a bunch down a small slope, and the first ones to the bottom are the rounder ones.
This would be helpful because you would only need to keep track of the "female" seeds.
In that chart it says that the others may be male or hermi. The only statement from that chart is that the round and nicely shaped "volcano" seeds will definitely be female.

Well that's how I would do it if I had the space and resources. :hippy:

[Horsemanrocks]

OH....this should explain what to look for

http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/186261-recognizing-sex-seed.html

As many as you germ.....that's gonna take some lookin'.

HMR

[canniwhatsis]

Well, here's my game plan,..... I'm going to work with the "Crater" sexing.

I'm shooting for a girl White Widow, and one of each of the Vanilluna, I checked my holes,..... and found what I think are my best options for each. Bear in mind I'm ONLY doing 3 beans here! :eek:

So lets see how it works out,.... I'm using a "Jump Start" Seed starter tray for germ..... first time using this, but the guy at the store swears by it and it certainly seems better than a paper towel! ;)


On an interesting note,... I did notice that of all the "Male" craters vs "Female" craters, the shape of the bean was similar too,.... rounder hole,... rounder bean! :wtf:

So,... IF, (thats a big if...) this works out, it would lend some creds to Weezard's slope method.

I'll check back in if someone doesn't sprout and or in a couple months once sex has been determined! Wish me luck!!!! :hippy:

[oldhaole]

WW... I would be happy to mark the red stemmed sprouts. It is an easy thing to do, And I won't mess it up.

Just spent the last half hour looking for "female" seeds and I am now going crosseyed. Forget this....they all look alike. I have a headache. Thanks for the links Horseman and Rusty. Next time I will think before I run my trap.

But I gotta take a pass on looking for girl seeds. It's all greek to me.

So let's see if red stemed starts are all girls. We can also look at this the other way. Are any red stemed plants boys? Red stemed males would step on the theory too.

I will get back to you after the jury comes back.

Sorry for hijacking your thread WW.

[Weezard]

Wisely bailed.:jointsmile:

Doin' same kine sing.
No gonna pop umpty seeds an' keep track an' all.
Too much like w*rk.

Just cracked a few JH seeds.
One had a perfect crater/circle, blah blah.
If it throws balls on da flop, that shoot holes in da round 'ole theory.
As usual, the very least I can do. :rastasmoke:

Carry on.
Weeze

[WashougalWonder]

I have a pair of PF beans I felt were males and I have them germinating now. No red on initial sprout...no red at all on either.

This was using the hole theory.

I have had a female come up and not be red, only one, same species as the one I am looking for a male, PF (poker face). As I note the difference in that batch of seeds, the female had just a duskiness to the stalk, not the redness, and it never got the red through the entire grow, a very different plant.

But looking at my 'feminized' seeds from the last nanner Eff up, they all have the round....all of them. Yet seeds from a different run with a male have both types of ends. Roundness, I agree with Rusty on, they can get scrunched up, tho I still prefer a nice fat round bean.

I am not sure how many beans you doing, but even a small sample of any method would be awesome, as this needs to be tested by many different species indoors and out, and different lattitudes. Any and all attempts are appreciated by anyone, just put the results up, try and be as scientific as possible.
I have lots of spare time to look at seed butts, I guess I have a seed butt fetish. :D :stoned: ;)

[Rusty Trichome]

Bummer you're sick. Wifey ok?

Yeah...when I read your post initially, I had some PokerFace and some Inca Spirit x Potent Purple seedlings going and it wasn't really adding-up. I figured it wasn't going to work with the Potent Purple genetics, but it seemed sexing the PF wasn't working out either.

Sure would be nice if it worked all the time, though. Especially for the GN Thai.

oldhaole: Tried to warn ya that I was kidding about sexing all those seeds...but did you keep the ones you checked segregated for future reference?

[docman]

Hello I am a newbie only one successful grow.

I have 1 mother plant (mango sp.) and I looked at it today and it had female
parts showing. It has been under 20/4 since I cloned it. Is it going to flower? The lights have never been less than 20 hours on. Why is it maturing like this? Please help...


Thanks in advance

[Weezard]

Hello I am a newbie only one successful grow.

I have 1 mother plant (mango sp.) and I looked at it today and it had female
parts showing. It has been under 20/4 since I cloned it. Is it going to flower? The lights have never been less than 20 hours on. Why is it maturing like this? Please help...


Thanks in advance

Relax brah.:rastasmoke:
Scattered pre-flowers are common with cuttings even at 24/0, eventually.
It just means that she's old enough to date.:D

Aloha,
Weezard

[docman]

I appreciate your help!


DM

[canniwhatsis]

So far on my seed sexing I can't tell.


All three are now about 3" tall and starting their 3rd set of leaves. Petioles on both the suspected male and female Vannilluna are dusky red on the tops, but that strain gets some really purple stems when mature. :wtf:

Somewhere, I tripped across a flashlight method,.... so I tried that,... the sexes seem different using that method, and dead on for the seed sexing.


I'll check back in a few weeks! :rastasmoke:

[canniwhatsis]

Still nothing definitive with the Vannilluna, and no signs of pre-flowers to be found.

The white widow bean on the other hand :hippy: This seed was selected based on the crater method.

What do you guy's think?

[Weezard]

Still nothing definitive with the Vannilluna, and no signs of pre-flowers to be found.

The white widow bean on the other hand :hippy: This seed was selected based on the crater method.

What do you guy's think?

The stem could use a Burma shave.:D

Still a li'l soon for definitive sexing.
Wait a while.:cool:

Aloha,
Weeze

[canniwhatsis]

Oh yeah without a question, I'm just stoked to see a pre-flower so soon! :D It's there right dead center between the spike and the branch, little hard to see, but in person it looks pretty girlish :hippy:

[Weezard]

Oh yeah without a question, I'm just stoked to see a pre-flower so soon! :D It's there right dead center between the spike and the branch, little hard to see, but in person it looks pretty girlish :hippy:

Oh, I zoomed and enhanced.

I grows a stem out da bottom, or pubic hair from da top den we know.
I still say too close to call now.:)

Fuzzy buggah!
Thought I say Elvis, scratchin like a monkey up in dere.:D

Aloha,
Weeze.

P.S. somebody nominated you for a Mod. position in da "we need Mods" thread.
Might wanna nip dat inna bud, bud.

[canniwhatsis]

P.S. somebody nominated you for a Mod. position in da "we need Mods" thread.
Might wanna nip dat inna bud, bud.

Thanks for the heads up! :thumbsup: I'm no mod, just schmuck with a green thumb! :hippy:

[kantgitwrite19]

hey canni, I said that i wasnt sure if you wanted to be but if you did then you would be a good'n My bad, Not trying to throw you under the bus by any means..Just respect you and think that you are very knowledgeable. The site needs more like you


anyways... I saw a thread on here somewhere talking about being able to sex a plant from sproud... due to soem red lines or dots on the plant? Anyone know what thread im talking about... i cant find it anymore... but if that holds true then I started out with 10 seeds... culled 1 due to lack of strength.... but the other 9 all have this red lining or red spots on the petiole or however you spell it.... help please cause if its true then I might cream my chones I will post pics of what i am talking about on my plants too

[canniwhatsis]

You just posted in it! ;)



Don't worry about the mod thing, While I've had to suffer the lack of mods lately in no means did I have ANY desire to take that task on myself! :hippy:

[Horsemanrocks]

Too early for me....at least at this angle.

The link in my sig will let you know first....better pics and angles.

But I simply cant resist a guess.....based on the not so conical shape....I'm thinkin' boy. ( A boy w/ very hairy legs) I'd bury it very deep so as never any possibility of ever breeding.

Whatsis....please report back.....and if there's a prize, well..I really like prizes...expensive ones.

HMR

[canniwhatsis]

Too early for me....at least at this angle.

The link in my sig will let you know first....better pics and angles.

But I simply cant resist a guess.....based on the not so conical shape....I'm thinkin' boy. ( A boy w/ very hairy legs) I'd bury it very deep so as never any possibility of ever breeding.

Whatsis....please report back.....and if there's a prize, well..I really like prizes...expensive ones.

HMR

:S2:

I'll take another pic of the whole plant,.... I think when you see the whole thing you'll understand some of the difficulty in ID,.... I'm actually quite impressed with the quality of that pic :rastasmoke:


Based on my previous seed grows and attempts to sex at this age I'm going with female,... but I'll post up when its certain! :thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

Here Ya go,.... Seed was cracked late last month (1-24-11 was put into "JumpStart" plug), put into this pot on the 3rd of this month. :cool:

[kantgitwrite19]

here are pics of all of my plants right now... if the red petiole theory holds true then all of mine are ladies...there is one pic for each skirt.... tell me what ya think

[kantgitwrite19]

here are the others... I think I might have double posted one of the pics

[canniwhatsis]

Yeah, I see the red in the petioles,.... and if the theory holds true they should be girls,.... I guess I should blow it out of the water and take pics of my Vanilluna seedlings,.... but that wouldn't be fair because that strain has PURPLE stems! :cool: Edit; and one of them should be a male, which would smoke the color thing..... if they're both female I'll be somewhat surprised.

What I'm trying to say there is that IMO the coloration of the Petioles "May" be an indication depending on strain, but when dealing with a strain that purps like my vanilluna it's gonna be really hard to say based off of color.


I'm working the "Crater" method of SEED sexing and not focusing on the color of stems.

I know which beans were which when I germinated them and am waiting for the sex to show.

If there's a correlation in sex to the color of the petioles I'll make mention of that when its said and done,.....


I really wish I wasn't so restricted on my plant count! :(

[kantgitwrite19]

of these to see if that theory hold any trueth for me... I REALLY hope it does... I am also doing this topping method... its basically top as soon as you can top and keep on topping... this guy gets about a lb off of each plant.... craazy YouTube - ‪how KoMA gets all these KHOLAS on 1 plant‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNuanYP7sb8)

I would like to get even 1/2 that... lol.... 4.5 lbs... YES PLEASE

[canniwhatsis]

Wow,.... that guy was :stoned:



Training would better suit the purpose, but takes a little more knowledge and work ;)



None the less lets not derail this thread! :hippy:



Post up your pics when you have em sexed. And let us know if the red speckling on the petioles worked out.

WW would like to keep this thread down to results and not muddy it up to much with BS.

:o (guilty already)

[kantgitwrite19]

oops, sorry! I will def post pics when i see so me results... :) Great thread.....:)

[NotSoTwiggy]

thank you so much for posting that link (recognizing sex of a seed). I am thrilled to see something that might help with early detection of female plants. I have never heard of this, but am going to go through my seeds and start sorting and testing it out. How do these websites, etc., guarantee female seeds that they are selling?? They have to have a method, maybe this is it! What was the results from 2010's growing season, were the seeds you thought were female truly female plants?

[WashougalWonder]

Well the theory has been proven to not always hold....both of them. So we could say they are generalities. They are not fact nor set in stone. There are many differences between different species.

[canniwhatsis]

Shit,.... lost a bunch of posts in this thread too! :(


My round of crater method sexing was 100% WRONG!!!!!! The two with the roundest holes, both males,.... the one with an irregular hole, female!

At least I did get a male Vannilluna so I can gather some pollen.

[kantgitwrite19]

well the red spots method has proved right on 2 plants so far! some of the pics are a little more obvious than others... but yea. enjoy! I just switched them all to 12/12 as well so the others god willing if they are female will soon show :)

[canniwhatsis]

Yeah, but like Washougal said, some strains never get any color to the stems. and my Vannilluna has dark purple stems on both sexes.

For the White Widow tho, the female does have red in the petioles, and the male (in this instance) did not.

So while it "may" be an indicator, it evidently won't work for every strain.

[helpmefindbud]

So what happened guys? Did you smoke so much you forgot about this thread? I wanna know how the experiments went! :)

[helpmefindbud]

Nevermind, I saw the update thread.