Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner

[Horsemanrocks]

I wanted a better cloner than the domeâ?¦.I did a lot of reading, and yes the super cool Frapaplas fogger at about $600 per copy is the top of the line. At $600 the clone dome wasnâ??t looking so bad. Around a hundred bucks seemed more like my budget. While the frapaplas would fog the entire roomâ?¦.Iâ??m a California boy that can only do 6 at a time, so a pond fogger seemed to fill the bill.

I tried to build with whatever I could pick up locallyâ?¦.Iâ??m a bit rural, and trips to the city are only out of necessity. The 4 ¾â?� vinyl posts and caps come from the Depot and bubble wall air stones from Petsmart.
Also I needed something as compact as possible (low profile) to fit on a high shelf, and I wanted to use 3.75â?� netpots as they transfer down the line to a pre-veg bubbler, and then drop directly into 6â?� netpots in 5 gallon buckets.

So the drawbacks of the pond foggers are heat generated and distribution:

With the fogger below the netpots the fog has to rise up to the netpots and the typical solution was to incorporate a fan to move the fog. This setup creates the fog in a manifold above and allows the fog to drop down in to the grow chambers doing what comes naturally.

To beat the heat issue the fogging manifold is isolated from the grow chamber, so the heat doesnâ??t accumulate in the grow chamber below. It recirculates to a remote reservoir and cools there before being brought back up via a small pump.

As fog floats across the water�.the drain set in the grow chamber is at 1 ¾� and the drain set in the manifold is at (if I remember correctly) 2 5/8�. This in effect reduces the volume that the fog needs to fill by nearly one half.

Now, why the bubbler?
Oldmac reports that after a 100% fogging in a cloner that the lacey roots created by fogging need a week to ten days to restructure to roots that function well in a splash environment.
So what Iâ??m going to try to find out isâ?¦.what is the ratio of fogging to splashing that will allow for a smooth transition as they move down the line to a splash environment. I donâ??t have a clue. Maybe (hint) with luck, a few fogheads will help me figure out where to start.

Donâ??t ask me questions about foggingâ?¦.Iâ??ve never done it. I posted this to learn about fogging. Questions about the buildâ?¦.I would be more than happy to oblige.
I havenâ??t even run it yetâ?¦.the adhesive is dryingâ?¦.weâ??ll get around to that soon enough (provided that it actually holds water).

Letâ??s start with some pictures:

[attachment=o233255]
[attachment=o233256]
[attachment=o233257]
[attachment=o233258]
[attachment=o233259]

Foghead thoughtsâ?¦.criticismsâ?¦.and ideas are invited.

More mañana,
Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

Dang!
That's pretty sweet!
A good idea, well executed.:cool:
Subscribed.

Wee Zard

[LOC NAR on probation]

Very interesting. Tryed a fog cloner and thought the heat would be a problem so we kept temps at about 70 degrees. Results were very poor. Found out we needed 80 degrees or alittle better. So heat from the pond fogger was no issue in an A/C room. More like needed a fishtank heater.

Temps are important. I would also run the bubbler half the time just for alittle splash on the roots. Or to keep it moist in the root chamber.

What we found is if it's just fog all the time the roots become very lacy. If the fogger shuts down for even a hour those lacy roots dry and are damaged for good. If no roots have reach the water level then it's just about all over.

I like your setup, very well thought out and put together. Very interested to see how it does.

[oldmac]

Hey there HMR,

Very nice design and project! :thumbsup: I can't wait to see how it works for you. BTW that is some nice neat work, I'm very impressed.

I would like to clear up something though.....


Oldmac reports that after a 100% fogging in a cloner that the lacey roots created by fogging need a week to ten days to restructure to roots that function well in a splash environment.
....what I found was; going from a regular clonner that just sprays water around, there is a lack of fine lacey roots so when the rooted clones went into a fog based enviroment it took a week to ten days for them to adopt (really grow) fine hair roots. The reverse probably holds true, but the transition may be easier since there will be some tap or water roots avaiable for the plant to use.

So what Iâ??m going to try to find out isâ?¦.what is the ratio of fogging to splashing that will allow for a smooth transition as they move down the line to a splash environment. I donâ??t have a clue. Maybe (hint) with luck, a few fogheads will help me figure out where to start.
That is what I need to figure out also. I am still undecided about which would be better, adding pond foggers to my EZ-clonners or build a pond fogger based fog generator (bucket of fog) and just introduce the fog to the clonners. Either way, getting that ratio correct will be important.

As LOC NAR pointed out, the hair roots are very delicate, but they are formed after the first roots emerge that are water roots. So there should be roots "reaching" down towards water to sustain the plants if the fog takes a holiday. In my aero/fog grow tray I stopped both the aero and fog for over an hour with no damage to the hair roots. The humidity level in the root zone never reached the point of the hair roots drying out after an hour or so, not sure how long it would take but again there was a lot of water roots laying on the bottom of the tray so the potential to completely loose them seems remote to me.

I think a good starting point for you would be to run the pond fogger all the time and spray for 1 minute every 15 minutes or so. But once you get this thing up and running you should get a better idea of how much fog you have and what the cuttings need.

:D -oldmac

[Prodaytrader]

Oh man, good luck. That's about all I can definitively say about what your doing. It was actually a little funny to see your pics because I have one of those setups sitting in my garage because it sucks! Sorry to say it. The good news is that I have done exactly what you are doing and will give you some tips that I have picked up from the same people your talking to now, as well as using the same equipment your using now. Oldmac uses the Frapa fogger so he doesn't count..lol

The problem with the fogger your using is that it only produces DRY fog. Your plants will need water. That is an absolute necessity. The fogger alone can not sustain your plants in my opinion and I have tried many methods including 4" fence posts just like your doing. Additionally, your pots are too close for veg and bloom, but I think you know that already. I didn't when I tried what your doing and quickly discovered that I ran out of room in there for larger plants. For some reason, the way I grow plants, they all come out bushy and short which means you need a good foot on either side of the plant to give it plenty of room. I know your just wanting a system to clone in though. It seems to me that I couldn't even get the plants ready for the veg cycle with fog alone. I mean to say that I don't think you can just use fog alone even for just cloning as the plant will need more water then what the fogger can produce. Nute's wise, fogging works great, but since you and I have dry foggers, we can never provide enough water for the plants without a secondary system.

Mold will become an issue if you don't control the fog well enough. Humidity is a large issue for foggers. Personally I think it creates too much of a humidity issue at least in my environment. Not only are my leaves all wrinkled from the high humidity, but I also tend to get mold at the base of the plants. DO NOT LET YOUR LIGHTS, COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE FOG. Where ever the fog is allowed to reach outside the res and the lights are shining on that spot, that is where your mold will start. The fog will want to creep out from the inside of the pot especially if your plant doesn't completely fill the hole in the neoprene disk. The lights tend to shine about 1/2" below the neoprene inserts so wrap the base of the plant with something to prevent fog escaping and light from getting down into the pot.

Getting the fog to the right spot was an issue for sure. I had troubles trying to figure a way to get the fog into the fence posts and I figure you will too. They make a waterproof fan that might work great for you. I ended up using an air pump and placed it in such a way as to push the fog towards the growing chamber. Too much air and the fog just blows away, too little and it doesn't get to where you want. Oldmac certainly has this down to a science, but he is using a much different setup then you or I are using. You can get speed controllers for computer fans as well as lower wattage transformers for electronic toys and reduce the fan speeds if your blowing fog too much.

The roots are definitely an issue. Fog roots are very fragile, tiny and hairy and do not like water splashed on them, just like oldmac pointed out. I tried a high pressure watering system to supplement the fog, but failed flat on my face. Frankly, for me, the journey was not near as important as the destination, so I gave up, got away from fog and went with something that would for sure grow plants quickly and easily. Low pressure aero is the cheapest, easiest and safest way to grow efficiently.

By the way, I have a 3 head fogger just like yours (looks like yours only has one head) and it just sits on the floor until I can figure a way to use it properly.

I'm not sure I can tell you properly how to make your system work, but I do know what doesn't work for sure. If that is of any benefit to you, then I can share more if you want. I really wanted fog to work, but it's not easy. Personally I think you need at least 2 to 3 zones for plant roots, where the fog sits on the top, sprayers in the middle somewhere and pools of water at the end.

*I'm on google talk under this username if you want to try and figure this out together through chat.

Others have had better success then I have had, but since they nearly all used different equipment then what you and I are using, they will have different successes. I saw several videos and grow logs similar to ours and they all end the same way...not enough water for the roots.

[Prodaytrader]

I looked at your pics again...I really like how clean your work is. I hope it works for you, but you may find that controlling the fog is a pain in the butt. Post back some working pics, plz.

[Horsemanrocks]

Now thatâ??s some kinda high powered response. Itâ??s more than I imagined.The good news (for me) is that a good part of what I wanted to accomplish is already up for discussion.

The best that I can do for the moment is to put out a generic thank you to all that respondedâ?¦..you put time and energy into this, and most certainly deserve an equal response.

I did find a little shop time todayâ?¦.the good news is that it holds water ( I may have to break tradition and begin to use smileys) And as you might have guessedâ?¦.getting it to flow appears to be the challenge. And while I did have the time to improve it a lot, it will take a little more dialing in to get what I had imagined. Iâ??ll do a post with picturesâ?¦.if I start on it tonight, maybe itâ??ll get in later, maybe not.

Please do me the favor of subscribing or checking back from time to time. I found topics in all posts that Iâ??d like to explore further.

Learninâ?? how to flow,
Horsemanrocks.

[headshake]

you know i'm subscribed!

-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

The good news is that it holds waterâ?¦.the bad news is that it only flowed out of one exhaust portâ?¦.or the other, but not both. There was a bit of a circulation loop going on. It needed to draw air from one side to supply the other.

[attachment=o233319]

So I cracked the yellow lid on the manifold some and the flow evened out to a good flow on both sides simultaneously. So I diddled a bit venting the lid (it took more vent than I thought)

[attachment=o233320]

So with a good flow to the grow chambers I proceeded to cover the first three netpots and watch for fog flow at the last opening. The flow was somewhat weakerâ?¦but most likely good enough.

[attachment=o233321]

Finally I covered the fourth and final opening (no picture) and the fog flow stopped entirely. So itâ??s going to need a vent at the far end to keep a flow going. Or no neoprene collars orâ?¦orâ?¦
As far as fog flowâ?¦.thatâ??s as far as I got with that today.

I did find this site today with very small fans, adapters, and speed controllers. Coolerguys.com carries a huge variety of computer case fans. We have case fans in all different sizes and colors, from 40mm to 360mm, black to multi- color. Shop at Coolerguys.com for the best selection and price! All Case Fans are Guaranteed! (http://www.coolerguys.com/fans.html) so if I must use a fanâ?¦.then so be it!

I did fiddle with pump flow not overrunning the ½� drain. At 20� with an 80gph pump seemed a nice balance. I ran it for about a half hour into a little more than a half gallon of water in the reservoir with no appreciable heat gain.

[attachment=o233322]

Againâ?¦.the mechanical issues I will overcome. The issues of fogging/ splashing (the reason for posting) only take the back seat momentarily. I just need a little more time to read and come up with reasonable questions.

Thanks all,
Horsemanrocks.

[Horsemanrocks]

Well itâ??s not medium lessâ?¦..but a step in that direction. I know 240 of these is out of the question for youâ?¦.but in an 8 holer itâ??s not so much.

[attachment=o233324]

[attachment=o233325]

[attachment=o233326]

This 3.75â?� netpot will move down the line to a 6 incher. Iâ??ll just feel better with the added support as I put the LST torque on them.

[attachment=o233327]

[attachment=o233328]

And if the bubble fogger turns into a bubble only cloner, then little lost. Because Iâ?¦.like yourselfâ?¦.enjoy my projects.

Until next time,
Sonnyboyâ?¦..who also rocks!

[oldmac]

Well itâ??s not medium lessâ?¦..but a step in that direction. I know 240 of these is out of the question for youâ?¦.but in an 8 holer itâ??s not so much.

Oh you young people and your strange "blue" strains. I much prefer to grow old school strains like "yellow #2 ticonderoga"!:thumbsup: Exactly what strain of blue is that? They look like they are stretching. LOL

Not sure why you have no faith is just a net pot and neoprene collar, the collar will hold your cutting and when it roots thru the net pot you have two attachment points to hold your plantlet.

And if the bubble fogger turns into a bubble only cloner, then little lost. Because Iâ?¦.like yourselfâ?¦.enjoy my projects.

Often it is the journey that is enlightening rather then the destination, grasshopper.


Thanks for the chuckles HMR. :D -oldmac

[Horsemanrocks]

Zardly,
Your presence is simply a mustâ?¦.Namaste

LOC NAR,
Very interesting. Tryed a fog cloner and thought the heat would be a problem so we kept temps at about 70 degrees. Results were very poor. Found out we needed 80 degrees or alittle better. So heat from the pond fogger was no issue in an A/C room. More like needed a fishtank heater.

Iâ??m with you thereâ?¦.my clone dome likes to see 80 â?? 84 degrees.
Heat is the issueâ?¦.the options as I see them.
1. Use a heatmat
2. Slow the recirculation to the reservoir to add a little more heat to the manifold.
3. Increase the pump flow to the manifold to overflow manifold heat into the grow chamber.
For the moment that looks like an â??adjust on the flyâ?�. Good thoughtâ?¦.it makes me consider setting the reservoir higherâ?¦â?¦and shunting off excesses in pump flow or not as desired. Yup, gonna do it!

What we found is if it's just fog all the time the roots become very lacy. If the fogger shuts down for even a hour those lacy roots dry and are damaged for good. If no roots have reach the water level then it's just about all over.

With the prevalence of 15 minute segmented timers (cheap) on the market, Iâ??m beginning to think in 15 minute increments. Like 15 min on and 30 off. Itâ??ll be interesting to see how this all ends upâ?¦..like how much flowâ?¦.how much ventingâ?¦.at what relative humidity. Gonna be fun. I appreciate your spending time and your experience.

OM,
what I found was; going from a regular clonner that just sprays water around, there is a lack of fine lacey roots so when the rooted clones went into a fog based enviroment it took a week to ten days for them to adopt (really grow) fine hair roots. The reverse probably holds true, but the transition may be easier since there will be some tap or water roots avaiable for the plant to use.

I got it backwardsâ?¦..again!! So whatâ??s new?

As LOC NAR pointed out, the hair roots are very delicate, but they are formed after the first roots emerge that are water roots. So there should be roots "reaching" down towards water to sustain the plants if the fog takes a holiday. In my aero/fog grow tray I stopped both the aero and fog for over an hour with no damage to the hair roots. The humidity level in the root zone never reached the point of the hair roots drying out after an hour or so, not sure how long it would take but again there was a lot of water roots laying on the bottom of the tray so the potential to completely loose them seems remote to me.

I very much appreciate knowing what to look forâ?¦..very useful
I actually hadnâ??t planned on a very long stay in the clonerâ?¦..just enough to move them down the line to the pre-veg bubbler. Would I be wrong in guessing that to be about 3 weeks. I also hadnâ??t planned on any feeding until the transfer. Any thoughts on that?

I think a good starting point for you would be to run the pond fogger all the time and spray for 1 minute every 15 minutes or so. But once you get this thing up and running you should get a better idea of how much fog you have and what the cuttings need.

That answers a lot for meâ?¦.the timing cycles had me going in circles.
I never really had a full understanding as to why you had the need to cycle the foggers off. The only thing that I could be clear on was, yesâ?¦.overfogging is possible.
The variables are so manyâ?¦..density of fog, micron size, dryness of fog, humidity of the fog chamber.
My intuition is that the output of the single disc pond fogger could justify full time foggingâ?¦..itâ??s reassuring to hear it from you.

Now to the part about sprayingâ?¦..Iâ??m not going to sprayâ?¦.Iâ??m going to bubble splash. I have no experience with sprayers, so I have no mental framework to compare from. My guess is that the gentleness of the bubble splash would have much less influence than a spray.
What I hope to pull off is using a $10 hardware store timer that segments to 15 min intervals. From what Iâ??m learningâ?¦.only the appearance of the roots and lags at transition will teach me that.

Oh you young people and your strange "blue" strains. I much prefer to grow old school strains like "yellow #2 ticonderoga"! Exactly what strain of blue is that? They look like they are stretching. LOL

Itâ??s a strain given to me by a local. He called it SS (a Silver Haze X Skunk) I truthfully had no idea that it was a blue strain. I know that you often grow PPP, and the more I learn about it the higher it moves up on my to do list. And any stretching is a result of sharing a light with larger plants in the pre-veg bubbler. One of the biggest reasons for this project is to have clones at the closest stage of development as possibleâ?¦â?¦.wish me luck!

( To interject a thoughtâ?¦.Weeze, was Hi Homie totally lost to rustlers ? )

Iâ??ll close here and go to work on the flow report from the shop
Thanks all,
Horsemanrocks.

[Horsemanrocks]

Had a little more shop time today. So I did some experimenting with fog flow and the need for an exit vent. I approached it by venting at each netpot and not at the far end of the chamber.

[attachment=o233431]

The picture doesnâ??t do justiceâ?¦.so I took another with a dark background.

[attachment=o233432]

I got a very nice distribution from first to last pot on both sides. After 50 min of fogging there was considerable condensation and some of the more exposed lava rock was beginning to darken.
Two hours later (not running) there was enough condensation inside to make me believe that it might not need to run 24 hrs, particularly after the lava rock begins to take on some moisture.
So whether I hole punch some neoprene collars or put together some home made lids ( I might just be able to drill out some more ABS test caps) Just some fiddling with netpot lids is about it. I canâ??t see presently that a fan will be neededâ?¦..thatâ??s a load offâ?¦.I think that this bad boy is gonna fly!

Thanks all,
Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

"Itâ??s a strain given to me by a local. He called it SS (a Silver Haze X Skunk) I truthfully had no idea that it was a blue strain. I know that you often grow PPP, and the more I learn about it the higher it moves up on my to do list. And any stretching is a result of sharing a light with larger plants in the pre-veg bubbler. One of the biggest reasons for this project is to have clones at the closest stage of development as possibleâ?¦â?¦.wish me luck!


Um, He was jus' jerkin' yer gherkin.
The Ticonderoga Yellow No. 2
Was da clue.
On da Island it's said ever'ting grows.
Pee inna pot an poke in a pencil, pretty soon, you got pine tree.

( To interject a thoughtâ?¦.Weeze, was Hi Homie totally lost to rustlers ? )"

Nope, jus' one of 3.
No. 2 was lost to fungus.
Very hard to grow, outdoors.
It was bred for indoor under leds.

I'm inhaling the No. 1 as we type.:jointsmile:
Left some notes next to da stoner chess board on the character of the "side-effects"
I've gifted plenty seed so it won't die out.
And I'm taking cuttings of my HH-III momma today.

Tryin' not to type, got 'zard fingers an' it's gummin' da kbd.

loha

W.

[Horsemanrocks]

Thanks for the rep.

[Horsemanrocks]

Um, He was jus' jerkin' yer gherkin.

Guess I'd better loosen up! :D

[Horsemanrocks]

Take thisâ?¦.BAM :hippy: a whirley, thatâ??s right a whirley. But waitâ?¦.BAM :hippy: another whirleyâ?¦.thatâ??s right a double whirley. It doesnâ??t get any looser than a double whirley.
The only guy that ever tried a triple whirley died trying.

Take two beers..and call me in the morning!

His looseness,
Horsemanrocks.

[Horsemanrocks]

Prodaytrader
The problem with the fogger your using is that it only produces DRY fog. Your plants will need water. That is an absolute necessity. The fogger alone can not sustain your plants in my opinion and I have tried many methods including 4" fence posts just like your doing. Additionally, your pots are too close for veg and bloom, but I think you know that already. I didn't when I tried what your doing and quickly discovered that I ran out of room in there for larger plants. For some reason, the way I grow plants, they all come out bushy and short which means you need a good foot on either side of the plant to give it plenty of room. I know your just wanting a system to clone in though. It seems to me that I couldn't even get the plants ready for the veg cycle with fog alone. I mean to say that I don't think you can just use fog alone even for just cloning as the plant will need more water then what the fogger can produce. Nute's wise, fogging works great, but since you and I have dry foggers, we can never provide enough water for the plants without a secondary system.

Good tipsâ?¦..Iâ??m hoping that the grow chamber carrying 1 ¾â?� of water and an occasional splash from the airstones will keep the chamber humid enough for survivalâ?¦â?¦ok, that remains to be seen. If you would be kind enough to supply me with your fogging scheduleâ?¦..Iâ??d be obliged.

Mold will become an issue if you don't control the fog well enough. Humidity is a large issue for foggers. Personally I think it creates too much of a humidity issue at least in my environment. Not only are my leaves all wrinkled from the high humidity, but I also tend to get mold at the base of the plants. DO NOT LET YOUR LIGHTS, COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE FOG. Where ever the fog is allowed to reach outside the res and the lights are shining on that spot, that is where your mold will start. The fog will want to creep out from the inside of the pot especially if your plant doesn't completely fill the hole in the neoprene disk. The lights tend to shine about 1/2" below the neoprene inserts so wrap the base of the plant with something to prevent fog escaping and light from getting down into the pot.

Also very usefulâ?¦.as thatâ??s exactly where Iâ??m needing to open up some to accomplish the desired flow. That will influence my design.

I'm not sure I can tell you properly how to make your system work, but I do know what doesn't work for sure. If that is of any benefit to you, then I can share more if you want. I really wanted fog to work, but it's not easy. Personally I think you need at least 2 to 3 zones for plant roots, where the fog sits on the top, sprayers in the middle somewhere and pools of water at the end.

My friends remind me when I occasionally snag a hot grounder in the infield��even a blind squirrel eventually stumbles across an acorn� Maybe I got blindly lucky. A fog zone�.a splash zone�.and a reservoir below.

Headshake,
Not like you to be so silentâ?¦..loosen up man, use a â??grinnieâ?� or..or..or have a few drinks and throw in a whirleyâ?¦.I didâ?¦.it does wonders!

That's too much for now,
Horsemanrocks.

[headshake]

Take thisâ?¦.BAM :hippy: a whirley, thatâ??s right a whirley. But waitâ?¦.BAM :hippy: another whirleyâ?¦.thatâ??s right a double whirley. It doesnâ??t get any looser than a double whirley.
The only guy that ever tried a triple whirley died trying.

Take two beers..and call me in the morning!

His looseness,
Horsemanrocks.

ROTFLMAO! this shit really had me laughing out loud. i'm trying to loosen up HMR, i just can't seem to put those damn faces on here. lol.

i'm loving the project!

"you must spread some rep around......."


-shake

[Prodaytrader]

ok im scribeded now too...

The zones are gonna be your saving grace for sure. Fog timing is something your just gonna have to learn on your own, I think. I can give you suggestions but you will have to find what works for you. I have used 24h/7d fog, 1 minute on 4m/5m off, 15m on /15m off and possibly everything in between. Everyone says that the roots need drying time, but too much and you kill those fine roots in the fog. Come to think of it, since the fog is dry to begin with, why again are we drying the roots out in the first place? I'm gonna start a thread on that discussion I think. I have most definitely killed fog roots before in as little as 20 minutes if I recall. However, too much fog and you have humidity issues and get mold. Tonight, I had to pull a basil plant from my system because it had root rot from too much fog and humidity. Your going to want frequent periods of intense fog is about all I can say.

That blue pencil joke was from start to finish hilarious and then to watch Horse's reaction....vrooommm. He totally missed that one.

[Horsemanrocks]

Proday.
That blue pencil joke was from start to finish hilarious and then to watch Horse's reaction....vrooommm. He totally missed that one.

I am such a Newbâ?¦.I read it and my mind went immediately to â??another strain Iâ??ve never heard ofâ?�. And I was busy being â??a good little scoutâ?�, getting my correspondence taken care ofâ?¦.It just didnâ??t register. Oh wellâ?¦.Iâ??m pretty sure that it wonâ??t be the last time that the joke is on me. Thankfully Iâ??m not too thin skinned.

I'm gonna start a thread on that discussion I think.

If you start another thread please link meâ?¦..I donâ??t personally scan for everything coming down the line.
Understand thisâ?¦..the reason for starting this thread is to learn exactly that subject. So running that discussion here is a benefit to me.

I have most definitely killed fog roots before in as little as 20 minutes if I recall. However, too much fog and you have humidity issues and get mold. Tonight, I had to pull a basil plant from my system because it had root rot from too much fog and humidity. Your going to want frequent periods of intense fog is about all I can say.

I moved my new toy in from the shop and put my first cuts in todayâ?¦.so Iâ??m just looking forward to having roots to worry about at all. Iâ??ve never fogged before and donâ??t even know what fog roots look likeâ?¦.so if youâ??re inclined to post a picture or two, Iâ??d appreciate it.

Shake,
ROTFLMAO! And not even a grinnieâ?¦..!
I looked to see if you were onlineâ?¦.you werenâ??t. So when you get back from â??anger managementâ?� classâ?¦.check in. I used to go to anger managementâ?¦..I quitâ?¦.it just pissed me off! :( (my first glummie)

HMR

[oldmac]

Hey HMR,

I didn't mean to make YOU the joke, thought you'd laff with me about your growing blue pencils, I often forget you young folk don't remember pencils, or at least the most famous one.:)

Congrats tho on the use of emoticons!:thumbsup:

The best way I have found to determine fog or even true aero cycle timming is to run the fog untill you see it start to condensate, let it go alittle longer then stop it. The off time should be long enough to let the relative humidity in the root zone to diminish, then cyle again. You don't want the roots, especially the fine ones to dry out. There are alot of factors that determine how long these on/off cycles should be, such as how much fog does the fogger put out and the size of the root zone you are trying to fill. How fast the humidity decreases is a function of how air tight the root zone, obviously with porus plant covers it will be faster to dry out then a tight system. etc.

That becomes the experimental part, trial and error. BTW with this being for rooting cuttings the increase in humidity (above the root zone) should not pose a problem. If it does seem excessive a small fan should fix that.

Good luck with it, I'll be watching. ;)

[mainegrown]

subscribed..
i like the idea of no substrate.. can it still be organic?
-J

[headshake]

Shake,
ROTFLMAO! And not even a grinnieâ?¦..!
I looked to see if you were onlineâ?¦.you werenâ??t. So when you get back from â??anger managementâ?� classâ?¦.check in. I used to go to anger managementâ?¦..I quitâ?¦.it just pissed me off! :( (my first glummie)

HMR

i just can't bring myself to do it HMR! i've tried but i just can't click the button!

and as far as that anger management shit, i beat up my teacher and peeled out of the parking lot. interestingly enough it made me less angry and feel much better......


:cool::wtf::jointsmile::thumbsup:


there....that should keep me good for the next decade or so!


-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

I didn't mean to make YOU the joke, thought you'd laff with me about your growing blue pencils, I often forget you young folk don't remember pencils, or at least the most famous one.

I know you didnâ??tâ?¦.I did that all by myself. Not only are you brighter and more experienced, youâ??re also a kinder man than I am. (the addition to my siggy is only there to remind me that â??Heyâ?¦..Iâ??m foolish enough to be presidentâ?�)

Congrats tho on the use of emoticons!

Emotiphobes meet Tuesday at 7pm in the main hall. Itâ??s a twelve step program.
Itâ??s the part about apologizing to everyone that Iâ??ve wronged that scares me. Now thatâ??s gonna take some time!
Iâ??m trying to pull one out of Headshakeâ?¦â?¦whaddaya think my chances areâ?¦..! Itâ??s hard being an emotiphobe, maybe he could start with a ;>) even a ;> would be a beginning. Hey Shake ;

The best way I have found to determine fog or even true aero cycle timming is to run the fog untill you see it start to condensate, let it go alittle longer then stop it. The off time should be long enough to let the relative humidity in the root zone to diminish, then cyle again.

Even that part is a mystery to me. If you can root a cutting in a water glass or root cubeâ?¦.how could the fog chamber be too moist.

[attachment=o233817]

How fast the humidity decreases is a function of how air tight the root zone, obviously with porus plant covers it will be faster to dry out then a tight system. etc.
I did punch holes in the collars to get the fog flow into the chamber in the first place. That saidâ?¦.it appears that the fog chambers could easily hold humidity (condensation) for a couple hours. Should I consider dropping the 24/7 approach and begin cycling even before I have roots. ( I donâ??t even have a guess how long that will take) Also a bubbler cycle should stir up humidity some too.

[attachment=o233818]

That becomes the experimental part, trial and error. BTW with this being for rooting cuttings the increase in humidity (above the root zone) should not pose a problem. If it does seem excessive a small fan should fix that.

For the time beingâ?¦..Iâ??m just trying to hold moisture inâ?¦above the root zone!

[attachment=o233819]

Good luck with it, I'll be watching.

You can be sure that this Doofus appreciates that! Donâ??t be gone too longâ?¦.as you can well imagine,I can get into trouble in a heartbeat! :)

Over and under,
HMR

Whoopsâ?¦.Shakeâ?¦you got in ahead of me. I gotta admit, you are some kind of â??wild and crazy guyâ?�.

and as far as that anger management shit, i beat up my teacher and peeled out of the parking lot. interestingly enough it made me less angry and feel much better......
See ya�.Tues 7 pm main hall�� ;)

[headshake]

i did beat you to the punch HMR....but it didn't feel near as good as i thought it would. lol.

how is the fogger treating you?

any luck with the humidity issues?

hope you had a great holiday!


-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

i did beat you to the punch HMR.

Yeahâ?¦.and after a conversation with your anger management instructorâ?¦.Iâ??ve been advised to continue to let you beat me to the punchâ?¦.or get punched.

but it didn't feel near as good as i thought it would.

Try Saw palmettoâ?¦.I hear that it may help with â??feel goodâ?�.

hope you had a great holiday!

I didâ?¦.and I got an exciting present this morningâ?¦..my very first fog roots.
The cuts went into the fogger late on the 19thâ?¦.today the 27th was actually the first time that I even lifted that potâ?¦.so 7 to 8 days is very exciting for me as the stories about cheap foggers being too puny or to dry to work seem to abound.
I only put in four cuts as Iâ??m a little short for the momentâ?¦.still 1 of 4 is enough for me for the moment.

Since the flower room is occupied and I need to bring along some mothersâ?¦these will have to make a transition to soil at some point. As the fog roots grow up some Iâ??ll begin to bubble some to smooth the transition. Any tips (or guesses) on root management and when and how much to begin to feed would be appreciated.

The two grow chambers donâ??t get exactly the same flowâ?¦.the one that rooted came from the chamber with the lesser flow. Does this mean that the other side is overly fogged? Hell if I knowâ?¦Iâ??ll play with it some. But if I donâ??t get cracking on growing up some viable momâ??sâ?¦.it may be a while.

Iâ??ve also begun to cut out a few 15 min fog cycles. No complaints yet!

An ex girlfriend once said to me â??youâ??re very easily entertainedâ?� (it was not a complimentâ?¦trust me) so my tiny little triumph is huge to me. I know that I have a long way to goâ?¦..if I come up with a little management strategy then this pig may eventually fly.

More another time,
HMR

[Horsemanrocks]

Iâ??ve started with two different strains..2 cuts from each.
The split is equalâ?¦.one of each on either side (gotta admit that the difference in flow is very marginal).
Both of one strain are rooting and the others are yet to come.
For the moment Iâ??m assuming the flow difference isnâ??t the factor. Just the strain difference or the prior feeding being the difference.

HMR

[Horsemanrocks]

The third rooted late the second day (yesterday)â?¦.the fourth never really recovered from the cut. It was the smallest and a little marginal in my mind anyway.
So Iâ??m pleased with 3 of 4 taking root.

I removed their domes for a while today to see if they could stand on their ownâ?¦..nope not yet!

Present thinking is to let the roots develop someâ?¦.and then bubble splash some to begin to acclimate for transition to soil.

One of the things that I like the best is having development so consistent throughout.

Still having fun,
HMR

[oldmac]

The third rooted late the second day (yesterday)â?¦.the fourth never really recovered from the cut. It was the smallest and a little marginal in my mind anyway.
So Iâ??m pleased with 3 of 4 taking root.
Same thing I discovered with fog, marginal cuttings don't grow marginal in fog...they seem to die off. But I've had cuttings go completely dead, or seemed to be dead, start to throw new roots, after an extended period.

I removed their domes for a while today to see if they could stand on their ownâ?¦..nope not yet!
Not unusual when in a dome. When you remove the doom try playing a bugle revelry loudly while yelling "get up you bitches"; sometimes works for me.

Present thinking is to let the roots develop someâ?¦.and then bubble splash some to begin to acclimate for transition to soil.
Sounds like a decent plan.

One of the things that I like the best is having development so consistent throughout.
??? 3 made it 1 did not, consistent....oh you talking about the growth!

Still having fun,
HMR

Fun is good:thumbsup:


Happy New Year HMR! Continued success.-oldmac :)

[headshake]

Since the flower room is occupied and I need to bring along some mothersâ?¦these will have to make a transition to soil at some point. As the fog roots grow up some Iâ??ll begin to bubble some to smooth the transition. Any tips (or guesses) on root management and when and how much to begin to feed would be appreciated.

i normally use peat pucks to clone. but i did run a batch in an aero-style cloner last go round. i know i let them go too long in the cloner and then just popped them in the dirt. they had massive root balls. i should have gotten a pic.

i did have an issue with hardening off, but it was nothing that wasn't to be expected.

as far as the feeding, i think they like it as soon as the roots hit the soil. they've been burning up their food stores during the rooting process. hit them with some low dose nutes, a blend of grow/bloom if you are running a two part system as phosphorus helps with root and stem development and increases vigor and potassium is necessary for all stages of growth and aids in creating sturdy and thick stems, disease resistance, water respiration and photosynthesis.


i know it's not much but i hope it helps jump start an idea!


-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

The third rooted late the second day (yesterday)â?¦.the fourth never really recovered from the cut. It was the smallest and a little marginal in my mind anyway.
So Iâ??m pleased with 3 of 4 taking root.
Same thing I discovered with fog, marginal cuttings don't grow marginal in fog...they seem to die off. But I've had cuttings go completely dead, or seemed to be dead, start to throw new roots, after an extended period.

Interestingâ?¦.because I didnâ??t actually toss itâ?¦.I put it on a styrofoam raft over a bubblerâ?¦..It hasnâ??t rooted, but itâ??s looking better. The problem is actually in the domes for the specific netpotsâ?¦..getting the right vapor flow and humidity in each dome. Iâ??m diddling with itâ?¦.but finding the perfect flow for each takes a little time.

I removed their domes for a while today to see if they could stand on their ownâ?¦..nope not yet!
Not unusual when in a dome. When you remove the doom try playing a bugle revelry loudly while yelling "get up you bitches"; sometimes works for me.

â??Get up you bitchesâ?� is politically incorrect in Califâ?¦.Iâ??ll look for a bugle! :jointsmile:

Present thinking is to let the roots develop someâ?¦.and then bubble splash some to begin to acclimate for transition to soil.
Sounds like a decent plan.

Thanks for the affirmationâ?¦..I put these thoughts out hoping for affirmation OR correctionâ?¦much appreciated. I put three rooted cuttings and one unrooted on the bubble chamber (the other chamber just fog) on Jan 2ndâ?¦.weâ??ll see what happens!

One of the things that I like the best is having development so consistent throughout.
??? 3 made it 1 did not, consistent....oh you talking about the growth!

Talking about timingâ?¦as opposed to the dome rooting one in three weeks and others in five weeks. A day as opposed to weeks. Isnâ??t that the trademark of Americanaâ?¦to want it fast, like in yesterday. Iâ??m a young manâ?¦and Iâ??m in a hurry!

i did have an issue with hardening off, but it was nothing that wasn't to be expected.

Againâ?¦.saw palmetto.:D

as far as the feeding, i think they like it as soon as the roots hit the soil. they've been burning up their food stores during the rooting process. hit them with some low dose nutes, a blend of grow/bloom if you are running a two part system as phosphorus helps with root and stem development and increases vigor and potassium is necessary for all stages of growth and aids in creating sturdy and thick stems, disease resistance, water respiration and photosynthesis.

Much appreciatedâ?¦..will do. What I do have is Foxfarms GrowBig at 6-4-4. The strains that Iâ??m fiddling with are very light feeders, so Iâ??ll be gentleâ?¦as itâ??s their first time.

I had an exciting last weekâ?¦.I lost power for five hours. I immediately fired up the generatorâ?¦.which ran for an hour, and then decided to take a little rest. So with little alternative I flooded the grow chambers with Dihydrogen Monoxide for about two hours until the generator came off â??union breakâ?�, nobody complained.
I have yet to see any difference whether I fog 24/7, or I â??pulse fogâ?�, or flood, or fog/splashâ?¦..perfect for a guy who doesnâ??t know what heâ??s doing. :D:D

Thanks for the input,
HMR

[Horsemanrocks]

i did have an issue with hardening off, but it was nothing that wasn't to be expected.

Shake,
The bad part of this arrangement is that I have to dome each potâ?¦.but the good part is that I can fiddle with the flow of each individually. So I can harden off individuals as they come ready.

[attachment=o234696]

I open the flow to get less condensation (a drier dome). So with luck I can dial back humidity for each plant when the root structure will support. Weâ??ll see soon enough as the transition is nearing.

And out,
HMR

[headshake]

i like the idea of being able to dome each pot etc. this should allow you much more control. this could/would be ideal for different strains.

"I have yet to see any difference whether I fog 24/7, or I â??pulse fogâ?�, or flood, or fog/splashâ?¦..perfect for a guy who doesnâ??t know what heâ??s doing."

this made me laugh out loud. i've got a buddy of mine that always gets on to me about trying to re-invent the wheel. but my philosophy is that if we aren't pushing the envelope then what are we doing it for?!

keep up the inspiring work my firend!!!


-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

[attachment=o234792]

[Weezard]

At least they're all girls

[Horsemanrocks]

Yeah, after 5 out of 6 turning out to be males. Oh well, I built a nice new, spacious mother cabinet so that I might put and end to my past "dickin' around". It's time "git to gittin' ".

Movin' forward,
HMR

[Horsemanrocks]

As Iâ??ve previously stated the rooting of the cuttings seemed pretty much fool proof (thatâ??s me).

The problem that I had with the one cutting seemed to emanate from the stem being on the short sideâ?¦.leaving the stem a little high for the fog zone and a little too close to the neoprene collar on the top side, staying too moist. So it appears that selecting cuttings with adequate stem length is important. (it has since recovered and is living happily on a styrofoam raft)

I actually spent the majority of my time managing the domes. The domes that I liked the best are the â??cake boxâ?� domes from a 100 CD stack. I drilled an 1 1/8â?� hole on the top side and as they overlapped the post rail just a little bit belowâ?¦.flow was easily controlled (and seen) by blocking or unblocking the hole up top. I found a seller on ebay selling the empty domes cheap, so Iâ??ll be better prepared next time.

I donâ??t have any cuttings for an immediate re-runâ?¦.so itâ??ll be a while. But Iâ??ve become fascinated with wilt-pruf or MG leaf shine and will no doubt be part of the next runâ?¦.not fiddling with domes would be nice too. If any of you use either of these and want to commentâ?¦.just do it!

Again, Iâ??m impressed with the speed and consistency over the old clone dome.

Thanks to all that have contributed to this experimentâ?¦..your experience and time are very much appreciated.

Thanks all,
HMR

[DreadedHermie]

But Iâ??ve become fascinated with wilt-pruf or MG leaf shine

I've been using "Vita-Grow Concentrated Anti-Wilt" for a couple years now, following Stinkyattic's recommendation. Works great, although it wouldn't shock me if some competitive product isn't identical (food-grade wax).

The concentrate seems to keep indefinitely. Once properly mixed (7 parts water : one part anti-wilt) the dilution has a shelf-life of only a few weeks unless you refrigerate it. Hermie recommends using sterile, distilled H2O for the mixture. You can tell when it's bad--it smells like a morgue for garden hoses. :wtf:

I just mix up a few ounces of it--enough to work in the spray bottle--and keep the sprayer in the fridge. Keeps for months like that, if necessary.

Most folks do figure out to spray the bottoms of the leaves as well as the topside, but getting everything--stems, too--helps. A second coat's helpful sometimes, too.

I helped an ex-hockey player set up a medical grow awhile back. The guy's definitely a "bull-in-china-shop" hazard in a growroom. He keeps knocking plants over, snapping off main colas, etc. No problem! He hurries out his cloning kit, recuts, dips, sticks in RR's, leaf trims, and sprays, and he's saved everything he's accidentally amputated. I'm beginning to think he does it on purpose. :pimp:

[Horsemanrocks]

Dr. Hermie.....I thank you sir...your input is always valued.

If they stand erect for more than 4 hours....do I call a doctor?

HMR

[Weezard]

Dr. Hermie.....I thank you sir...your input is always valued.

If they stand erect for more than 4 hours....do I call a doctor?

HMR

Call a bimbo first.
Or take dat one to town.:D

Howzit, Rocky?

You seem to be making progress.
Weeze

[Horsemanrocks]

You seem to be making progress.

I very much appreciate your leaving the word â??finallyâ?� out of that sentence.

I underestimated a couple of things initiallyâ?¦.the heat of the summer, and the amount of space necessary for continuous cuttings and the corresponding space for mothers. So Iâ??m coming up to speed on both counts. Of courseâ?¦setting up a hydro project while living in Podunk has its challenges.

This project has been rewardingâ?¦..itâ??s speed and reliability are better than a domeâ?¦.and the fact that it tucks away on a shelf, taking up no more space in my layout than the dome is what I was shooting for.

I might have made a design change or two. The first is that I could have put intake ports directly over the dump tubes exiting the manifold. I put the intake port eccentrically over the nebulizer. I had a small variance in output that I didnâ??t dial in until all was said and done. The small inequality didnâ??t seem to affect the output at all.

The second might be exhausting the grow chambers at the far ends. Iâ??ll wait to see the result of the wilt-pruf before screwing with that though. Possibly it stands as is.

I used to come a little more from the type A side, but allowing it to be what it is, instead of making it happen fast now seems the path of wisdom. All in all, Iâ??m certainly having fun.

Hasta el proximo vez,
Rocky.

[Prodaytrader]

Don't throw that fogger out just yet. I am working out the specs on how to properly use these damn foggers. Like you I sort of thought these things were the way to go before I realized what it would take to actually make one work. There is very little research on them but through trial and error I think I have finally found a reliable way to use them to their maximum benefit. I wont say more then that for fear of failure once again and making myself look stupid. Hang in there, keep reading and keep experimenting.

[Weezard]

Aloha HmR

You've been quiet.
Thought you'd at least kibbitz on da stoner chess.
No gotta be a chess maven, (but bein' a stoner is encouraged.):jointsmile:


What's your take onna Wilt pruf?
Stoma still open?
'Cause if that wax seals them, might as well use Aquanet.
Prolly 1000X cheaper, yah?:D

Jus' wonderin'.
Had some cuttings fail.
Only difference that comes to mind is humidity, it gets much lower in the winter months here.
They don't wilt, or even look dry.
Just sit there and slowly fade to pale yellow.
I'll dome them and see if that's the problem.

Any suggestions?

Weeze.

[Horsemanrocks]

Yeah, Iâ??ve been quiet with little to contributeâ?¦.But the new mother cabinet is beginning to fill up some, so in a few weeks I hope to be in position to move forward with as few interruptions as possible.

3 ½ weeks into my first flower. The nodes have begun to tighten, so Iâ??m thinking that the stretch is nearing its end. I have about a foot of travel left to raise the lightâ?¦so it appears that all the planning is going to work out well.

The biggest thing that Iâ??ve had to deal with is the slowing of the bucket drains. It began right after a system/controller change out. I had been using only a small quantity of Liquid Karmaâ?¦.well the turbulence of the change out released the thin brown LK coating into filmy floaters. I can only guess that the floaters are collecting on the bucket filters.
So Iâ??ve shunted some pump flow in the controller to prevent bucket overflow. Thanks to Hermie I have airstones that I can rely onâ?¦.so for the present, no big deal. I expect to be able to finish the growâ?¦.if not, Iâ??m learning a lot.

The Latewood regimen was way more nitrogen than my grow would allow, so Iâ??m playing it by eye. Just kind of making it up as I go along, so Iâ??m just maintaining a constant ppm. So far so good. :D

Stoner chess is a consistent source of entertainmentâ?¦you and Dr. Hermie are always fun. I guess that after 9 mos of intensive study Iâ??ve backed off reading everything to attend to things that Iâ??ve been ignoring elsewhere. Now mostly Iâ??m just running specific searches for whatever pops up.

What's your take onna Wilt pruf?
Stoma still open?
'Cause if that wax seals them, might as well use Aquanet.
Prolly 1000X cheaper, yah?

As always I ended up with what was availableâ?¦.in this case MG leaf shine. I have'nt used any yet as I donâ??t have cuts ready to clone.

Now many of these products are to be dipped intoâ?¦.coating top and bottom. So how can you help but coat stomata. The instructions on the leaf shine say spray the top surface. But here weâ??re trying to accomplish something completely differentâ?¦.slow transpiration. So as it stands Iâ??ll likely coat a few top and bottom and a few top onlyâ?¦.let the process tell me.
In any case there is a Latewood thread on Leaf shineâ?¦..he sprayed both sides with successâ?¦..Quien fâ??in sabe?

But Iâ??ll gladly take more conversation on the subject if youâ??re inclined to elaborate. Aquanet!.....is there something that youâ??re not sayingâ?¦â?¦?

Only difference that comes to mind is humidity, it gets much lower in the winter months here.

Itâ??s kinda hard to image a humidity crisis on an island in the Pacific. The RH in my house is 15% at the momentâ?¦..I draw a static discharge of about ¾â?� everytime I touch a switch, receptacle, the refrigerator, or even the stream of water to wash my handsâ?¦â?¦even the cat is reluctant to come by for a rub. That really is priceless though as the only haole complaint Iâ??ve ever heard about Hawaii is how humid it is!

They don't wilt, or even look dry.
Just sit there and slowly fade to pale yellow.

El (but not oh el)â?¦..yeah, Iâ??ve seen that. :D

Jus' wonderin'.
Had some cuttings fail.
Only difference that comes to mind is humidity, it gets much lower in the winter months here.
They don't wilt, or even look dry.
Just sit there and slowly fade to pale yellow.
I'll dome them and see if that's the problem.

Glad to hear thatâ?¦..not for your sake of courseâ?¦..because everything I cloned in the warmer, moister, summer months took well. But as the season turned to cooler and dryer in the fall I began to struggleâ?¦.for both reasons. Both are rectified nowâ?¦.but it did take me a while to realize why.

Any suggestions?

Yeah, keep them warm and moist.
So the choices are:
* A muzzle cloner for that big dog of yours.
* Or a jock strap cloner for yourself.
Canâ??t go wrong either way!

Glad I could help,
Rocky.

[Horsemanrocks]

Mainegrown,
When you get ready to build itâ?¦.let me know. Iâ??ll include a few details that I didnâ??t post previously.
Iâ??ll be glad to help.

HMR

[Weezard]

So I got da fork, and taped my duck, now what?

And, "when ya jump,
what part of you jumps first?" - Y. Berra

Aquanet is cheap hairspray.
Far as I can tell, it's water soluable.
(Washes off.)
Though I'm almost sure it would kill a cutting, the key word here, is almost.:D

And I have seen folks wipe Philodendron leaves with Lemon Pledge.:wtf:
Makes 'em all shiney and lemon smellin'.:jointsmile:

Ya know what?!
I'm gonna wipe da next cuttings with Mayonaisse.
Hey, it's like, organic, man!:hippy:

Crazy?
Sure.
Fun?
Oh hell yes!:cool:

Tried being "sane", not my cup of different strokes.:(

Fun's where the fare's at!:)
So, line up, sign up, and take off your shoes.:rastasmoke:

The future is fun!
the future is fair.
You may have already won!
You, may already be there.:cool::cool::cool:

Aloha,
Gypsy Doctor <laugh, runaway>

[Horsemanrocks]

Just back away from the mayonnaiseâ?¦Weeze.

I think that itâ??s nearing time for an intervention. Shakeâ?¦you with me? I know where he lives.

Rocky.

[Horsemanrocks]

As I got ready for round two I struggled to get the flow that I wanted�.so I reworked the inlet air to supply even more flow. The cap on top has 1 ½� vent and I added 3 more 7/8� holes (you figure the total volume) to a makeshift riser. All holes are off center as the nebulizer pukes water eccentrically.

[attachment=o238442]

I also cut more venting into the neoprene collars.

[attachment=o238443]

So forget all the flow screwing around in the pastâ?¦..just add sufficient inlet air and flow is plentiful and equal.


The cake box domes work out wellâ?¦.leaving enough space that the leaves donâ??t need to make too much contact.

[attachment=o238444]

I did use the Miracle Grow leaf shineâ?¦.I think that it may have helped somewhat, but not the completely wilt proofing that I had imagined. Next trip to the city Iâ??ll try to arrange some anti-wilt and compare the two.

Iâ??m only about three days in, so Iâ??ll report progress another time.

Oldmacâ?¦.Iâ??m taking your adviceâ?¦itâ??s mediumless.

HMR

[headshake]

Just back away from the mayonnaiseâ?¦Weeze.

I think that itâ??s nearing time for an intervention. Shakeâ?¦you with me? I know where he lives.

Rocky.

you know i'm with you HMR!

also, i hope the new rig helps get you to where you want to be. no medium would be nice!


-shake

[Weezard]

you know i'm with you HMR!

also, i hope the new rig helps get you to where you want to be. no medium would be nice!


-shake


Relax guys, I can handle da Mayo.:cool:
I'm tougher n smarter dan yer average lizard.
Da "White goo" is my servant, not my master.
Da "white-outs" is prolly jus' natural senility.
I can stop anytime I want, I jus' don' wanna, see?
Haven't touched it for 2 days!

What?
Oh, dat.
<schlurp>

No.
I prolly just blew a seal.:D

Thanks for worryin'.
Love you guys.
<snatches da Hellman's and beats feet towards the door>

Muahahahaha!

Weeze

[Horsemanrocks]

Ok Shake hereâ??s the plan:
Iâ??ll take him low and you take him highâ?¦..he is bigger than I am.
No no noâ?¦waitâ?¦hmmm letâ??s see.
Iâ??ll take him on aloneâ?¦..couldnâ??t hurt that muchâ?¦..I hope.
You take on the dogsâ?¦.theyâ??re littleâ?¦.trust meâ?¦.would I lie?

Horserocksman

P.S. OM wasnâ??t checked in for about a monthâ?¦.any newsâ?¦.anybody?

[Weezard]

Ok Shake hereâ??s the plan:
Iâ??ll take him low and you take him highâ?¦..he is bigger than I am.
No no noâ?¦waitâ?¦hmmm letâ??s see.
Iâ??ll take him on aloneâ?¦..couldnâ??t hurt that muchâ?¦..I hope.
You take on the dogsâ?¦.theyâ??re littleâ?¦.trust meâ?¦.would I lie?

Gruesome:
[attachment=o238516]

Didn't she?
:D

Weeze


Horserocksman

P.S. OM wasnâ??t checked in for about a monthâ?¦.any newsâ?¦.anybody?

Not a sausage!
I'll hunt him down.

[headshake]

i got the dogs HMR! i seem to bond easy with the little four-legged beats! good luck with the 'zard!

Weeze, set the mayo down and step away!!!!


-shake

[Weezard]

:S4::woohoo::jumphappy::giggity::dance:

Muahahahahahaha!:S3:

Zoom!-----------------> Y'all

W.

[Horsemanrocks]

Thanks Shakeâ?¦..I figured that I could count on you.

The dog pictureâ?¦.a dachshund taken with a macro lens.

Iâ??m getting a little concerned for me thoughâ?¦.thatâ??s one large angry man. Now along with the mayo problem it looks like weâ??ll have to enroll him in anger management as well. Iâ??m glad that you have such in depth experience there.

I took my first peek for roots in the cloner todayâ?¦..The stems looked dark and toughâ?¦.I realized that I hadnâ??t scarified. What a nimrod move. I wonder what a small touch of Hormex might do. Oh wellâ?¦.as they say down underâ?¦â?�no hurries mateâ?�.

Nimrodrocks

[headshake]

i try to do my part HMR! turns out he had a mayo trap set, and i've spent the last week trying to get out of it. he's evil.....or perhaps its the mayo that's fueling the madness?

-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

A mayo trapâ?¦..diabolical!

Thatâ??s a slippery one that Zardlyâ?¦..sounds like you might be a bit slippery now yourself.

Heâ??s big, heâ??s angry, and heâ??s extremely brightâ?¦..and now we learn that he buys Hellmans in 5 gallon bucketsâ?¦..this no be easy kimosabe!

A brief update on the MG leaf shine experimentâ?¦.well it isnâ??t goodâ?¦.at least in this application. It slows transpiration in both directionsâ?¦.if the cuts lose a little moisture itâ??s difficult for them to recoverâ?¦..consider the experiment a loserâ?¦.for now.

I am pleased however that OM is doing well.

HMR

[Weezard]

"Who knows, what evil, lurks in the hearts of men?"

Da Wee Zards do!
<Muahahahaha!>


We no sleep, we no blink.
Live unner da kitchen sink.

We tree D, n free.
An' we small, like a flea.
Got tiny, hi-def, cameras unner our pillows
We see, and oft' record all hoomin pecadillos.
.
.

T'ink on dat, a bit!

I'll wait...
.
.
.
.




Mmm!
It is said that a :bigsmoke:'s as good as a:S4: to a blind pig.

So, I gonna spell dis out.


Mess wit' my "big M" an' ya jus' might see yer last wank on You-tube!!

Roger, dat?

Good!
I'm glad we onna same page now.

Mmm, oh yeah, sorry 'shake, but I no waste M.
Dat goop's AG. strength Tanglefoot.
Comes right off wit' a wirebrush.:D

Silly Hoomins, M., is for Zards.

W.

[headshake]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Weeze, dude, i'm so glad that you are a member of this site. you have brought a smile to my face at least once a day since i've joined. you rock man. smart, funny, knowledgable, wise, helpful, scientific.....and poetic!

now if i could just find the wire brush.......shake is a silly hooomin after all.


-shake

[Horsemanrocks]

Weeze, dude, i'm so glad that you are a member of this site. you have brought a smile to my face at least once a day since i've joined. you rock man. smart, funny, knowledgable, wise, helpful, scientific.....and poetic!

Pincheâ?¦.ass kisser!

No wait, I get itâ?¦..butter him upâ?¦..heâ??ll be easier to handle when we swoop in to interveneâ?¦â?¦.good thinkinâ?? Shake.

Womenâ?¦..I never did understand themâ?¦..or they understand meâ?¦! This girl apparently doesnâ??t get it.

[attachment=o240984]

The roots are supposed to come below the collar!

Is this what OM meant about too much fog. Looks like this strain would prefer a little pulse fogging. OM gave me this on page one.

The best way I have found to determine fog or even true aero cycle timming is to run the fog untill you see it start to condensate, let it go alittle longer then stop it. The off time should be long enough to let the relative humidity in the root zone to diminish, then cyle again.

Well this cycle is taking longer than the first (different pheno)â?¦..not to mention how long it takes me to catch on. My timer works in 15 min incrementsâ?¦..so to start itâ??s 45 min on and 15 min off.

More whenever,
HMR

[Weezard]

"No wait, I get itâ?¦..butter him upâ?¦..heâ??ll be easier to handle when we swoop in to interveneâ?¦â?¦.good thinkinâ?? Shake.

Great plan!
Butter him up.

Then, try to catch him.
Brilliant!

Silly hoomins

W.