Top 2 examples of U.S. foreign depravity/hypocrisy

[overgrowthegovt]

This is really a top 10, but I have an early morning and time isn't abundant right now...I'll post the next part tomorrow. There are an infinite number, but I've decided on 10, and these 2 aren't necessarily the top-top 2, but up there.

1. NSC-68: in April of 1950 this document outlined plans to "foster the seeds of destruction within the Soviet system." The means? Reinhard Gehlen, head of Nazi military intelligence on the Eastern front, was put in charge of the espionage service in West Germany, the CIA closely supervising him. His task: to develop a "secret army" of thousands of SS men to assist forces fighting within the Soviet Union. Essentially, the U.S. commissioned a Nazi army to go on a murderous rampage through Russia to weaken the state.

2. THE VIETNAM MINES: Thousands of Vietnamese people continue to die from dormant mines from the war that are suddenly triggered. The U.S. has done nothing to remedy this: the Pentagon officially stated "People should not live in those areas. They know the problem." They've also refused to give their mine maps of Indochina to civilian mine-deactivation teams.
This is nasty in itself, but much, much worse when we look at Afghanistan. The Russians, as is well known, were in there for about a decade, and mines also abound. Like the U.S., the Russians have done nothing to deactivate them, but they have, at least, and unlike the U.S., given up their mine maps. The U.S. media in about 1990 abounded in headlines condemning this Russian depravity, with the Americans heroically training refugees to destroy the mines.
"The Soviets will not acknowledge the problem they have created or help solve it," said Richard Williamson, the Assistant Secretary of State. "We are disappointed."
When I read this, I've rarely been so disgusted.

[overgrowthegovt]

I never really expect a response from any non-dissident...what possible rebuttal could there be?

I'd just like to clarify, though, that the Nazi army was mostly in the form of intelligence, which brought about most of its violence indirectly. Still.... there are also cases of Nazis like Klaus Barbie who were put back to work and then sent off to South America to be an American-sponsored drug kingpin.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

i think i'll wait for the list in its entirety before i attempt a rebuttal. i can't promise anything special (the u.s. is responsible for many atrocities), but i just may be able to put things in a bit more perspective than someone who's agenda is merely america bashing.:D

[Esoteric416]

Rebuttal?
At this point you could tell me that for the last 50 years the US has been run by a series of host bodies with hitler's brain at the wheel, and there's a fair chance i would buy it. :P

I'd also like to see the whole list. :thumbsup:

[cptcannabis]

The CIA's M.O. is to foment insurrections within countries that they want to topple. They've been screwing around in Iran most recently, probing it for the possibility of toppling that government. The CIA raising an army of SS to mess with the Soviets doesn't surprise me at all. They do it all the time. They also love kidnapping children and raping them, so that they can use them as assassins and agents under their MK Ultra program. Go google MK Ultra. There's extensive documentation for it. This came from the Nazis too. They were very interested in brainwashing, and most of what the U.S. learned about it was from the Axis. Even more alarming, the Category 1 people in the TCS database are labeled as terrorists to local law enforcement, but they are really CIA agents conducting false-flag operations. The FBI training video tells police that they'll never see a Category 1 person. That's because they're agents! The CIA is possibly the most evil U.S. institution ever.

[Trip06]

After ww2 Our country took all the top Nazi scientists and other highly important nazi government agents to our country and gave them jobs to continue there work. NASA space agency was started by Nazi's look it up. Eugenics still here still operating. The Hitler youth was converted from their verson of the boyscouts. Now these days the boyscouts in America in several states are training in US border patrol drills with guns on how to quote"take on army veterans" and dissedents. Look it up. Our country is already on a good start to fascism. With in a few years its HIGHlY poosible there will be some sort of bloody revolution. As it is the majority of americans dont trust our government anymore. Famous quote: When people fear there government thats tyranny, when the government fears the people thats freedom. I think that was thomas jefferson. Our forefathers as long ago as it was Knew all this shit and saved our asses with the constituion, We all need to defened it to the death wether we exercise our rights or not.

[boaz]

Rebuttal?
At this point you could tell me that for the last 50 years the US has been run by a series of host bodies with hitler's brain at the wheel, and there's a fair chance i would buy it. :P

no shit. :wtf:

[killerweed420]

Lets be honest here. This isn't America bashing, I still love my country. But this country has a terrible history. We stole this country from the native americans, mexicans and eskimos. We have quite a history of persecuting people who stood in the way of our unquenchanable greed and it continues today. Greed is what allows us to live such lavish lifestyles with anything we could possibly want at our fingertips. And that even includes the poorest of us. We get the government we deserve. If we ever hope to make funamental changes to this country we're going to need to become less materialistic.

[Trip06]

Good Luck trying to change people, you will find yourself really alone. Isnt It really odd that On so many differnet fronts freedom is being attacked at the same time right now. I mean the Fedralizing of police agencies, the internet as you mentioned, Not being alowed to leave or reenter the country with out a REAL ID card thats chip tracked. Soon not being able to breathe or whipe your ass with out haveing to pay a Enviroment TAX, Government buying up bail out corparations and then operating them as their own(THATS THE MOST SCARY SHIT RIGHT THERE) Obama giving the Federal Reserve more Power and control over our economy, The private bank can seize any buissness in the USA that it deems 'bad' for the economy. Second Amendment UNDER EXTREME attack(I dont even wanna go into it) IDK people....Just all these things at once. Nothing got better sence bush, About 10 times worse. The biggest rise in patriot malitia groups because who would of guess the people are not trusting their government anymore. HEY government you've been warned cross the line....watch your ass.

[overgrowthegovt]

i think i'll wait for the list in its entirety before i attempt a rebuttal. i can't promise anything special (the u.s. is responsible for many atrocities), but i just may be able to put things in a bit more perspective than someone who's agenda is merely america bashing.:D

Believe me, while it may come across otherwise, America-bashing isn't my intent...nothing against the people, it's just that in a world of corrupt and awful political systems that breathe hypocrisy, they are the worst.

To even the odds, here's a bit of Canada-bashing from me: we condemned the amorality of Vietnam and yet became the world's biggest exporter of materials for weapons to the U.S. during that period. We were the silent, hypocritical warriors of the Vietnam War. Much more could be cited.

[fourkicks]

ALAS ITS NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE FACE OF OUR COUNTRIES--
ITS THE POLITICIANS.

[Islandborn]

who cares? Shit happens. George Carlin said anyone who looks at life as anything more than pure entertainment.....has clearly missed the point.

[psychocat]

who cares? Shit happens. George Carlin said anyone who looks at life as anything more than pure entertainment.....has clearly missed the point.

Try telling that to some kid in a sweatshop making cheap goods so the west can have all the mod cons. :wtf:

[Islandborn]

Its sad but thats life...........they need to step it up in India, I had a pair of AirMax fall apart a few months ago

[psychocat]

Its sad but thats life...........they need to step it up in India, I had a pair of AirMax fall apart a few months ago

You are a perfect example of the mindset that allows exploitation, the thing is I'll bet you would have a sharp change of mind should the roles ever be reversed.
Sad is true, sad that so many selfish people have an "I'm alright ,screw you" attitude.

:mad:

[Islandborn]

Selfish? I recylcle and donated to 4 charities on my taxes last year? Im just saying they need to pay more attention to the patterns on the AirMax stitches, mine fell apart.

[Islandborn]

I'm gonna have to make Nike's for folks in Mumbai? Yea I dont see that happening but the idea is a fun movie idea.

[Islandborn]

A Brit lecturing the Americans on wordly injustice.......funny.:thumbsup:

[psychocat]

A Brit lecturing the Americans on wordly injustice.......funny.:thumbsup:

I fail to see your point as I am hardly my birthplaces decision maker.
I hate both the US and British goverments for thier hypocrisy and greed.
The west could never sell goods so cheaply if they weren't made as cheap as possible, thus the existence of sweatshops in "third world" countries.
The same politicians who allow such business practices then point to other countries and declare that imports are destroying home grown business :wtf:

The habit of supporting puppet tyrants via very murky deals is something both Europe and the US and have had a hand in.

BTW I do not consider myself British ,I am English.
Just in case you don't know, there is a difference. :thumbsup:

[Islandborn]

Calm down. You can trace my Granny's maiden name Manley back to the 1400's England. I kived in London with my gay cousin for a year before i went to college. Your a Brit or a Englishman, whatever floats your boat dude. I'm no unculcultured, untraveled, uneducated Yankee I can promise you.

I do my part, my wife drives a silly prius, I gladly pay taxes, recycle. Im all for low impact and America doing more globally, no biggie. I work hard offshore and deserve to splurge on whatever I want. I like shoes, expensive shoes. And I like big huge LCD'S for every room in my energy efficent, modest, 2200 sqaure foot house I live in w my wife and 2 kids and protect with 3 handguns. We do all that and guess what, kids are still gonna work for a little more than the other kids at sweatshops in India. I look out for my family my way, and you look out for yours your way. Neither is wrong. I just know that it's not gonna stop so I dont lose any sleep over it. I better stop now, my carbon footprint is gonna smother some poor baby in IndoChina.

[Chineseyes]

Try telling that to some kid in a sweatshop making cheap goods so the west can have all the mod cons. :wtf:

That poor kid was probably eating bugs and crapping in the woods until that sweatshop showed up in his backyard and tripled the income of his entire family. Have you ever considered that the sweatshop could be the beginning of their industrial revolution, lifting an entire 3rd world country out of poverty over time? Consider India. Consider Japan, remember when everything they made was considered junk, I do.

What we need are more sweatshops set up in Mexico and Central America to decrease all the illegals coming over the border.

You call them sweatshops, I call them opportunity.

Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than all other systems combined.

It's raining where I live today, it's my first day on the political forum and I could rip this thread all day long, maybe I will:)

Later

[delusionsofNORMALity]

That poor kid was probably eating bugs and crapping in the woods until that sweatshop showed up in his backyard and tripled the income of his entire family. Have you ever considered that the sweatshop could be the beginning of their industrial revolution, lifting an entire 3rd world country out of poverty over time?but the liberal establishment and its followers demand that everything happen NOW. the fact that progress is a sometimes lethargic sort of creature seems to escape them entirely. just as they seem to be oblivious to the reality that it is the corruption in the government of those countries that allows their people to be exploited and would rather place all the blame on those evil businessmen. that reality hits a bit too close to home.


It's raining where I live today, it's my first day on the political forum and I could rip this thread all day long, maybe I willwelcome to our small corner of paradise. we lost a whole lot of folks here in the shake-up a while back and i'm happy to see a new face willing to endure the insanity of our little political forum. hope to be ripping you a new one soon:D

[Islandborn]

There was a shake up here? What happened?

I agree, Capitalism has it's ugly side, but it's helped way more than it hurt.....but whatever, call me evil. I capitalized on the housing market crash and scooped a 2007, 2000 sq ft Lennar House for way cheap ( that I can afford) that got forclosed on for my kids to play in a yard...........IM EVIL!!! BWAAAAAA:pimp:

[Islandborn]

I guess it's all how you look at life.....take a crash or crisis and make it work for you. I did. Not sure what else a person can do, sit on sidelines? Not me.

[Chineseyes]

D of N,
Didn't know there was a shakeup here, too bad. I was a regular @ CannabisWorld until they destroyed that fine site. Came here when I decided to make the switch to hydro last year.

At any rate, liberal politicians aren't interested in helping anyone, only consolidating power.
It's that whole give 'em a fish/teach 'em to fish thing. Liberal democrats will give enough fish to get your vote and keep your heart beating but if they teach you to fish, you don't need them anymore.

Been reading Mark Levin's "Tyranny and Liberty" lately. I highly recommend it if you're interested in how we got to where we are today.
I have less tolerance for liberals with every turn of the page:).

But we're losing sight of this thread!!

1. Nazi armies controlled by the CIA in 1950.
1945 pretty much ended it for the Nazis didn't it, June 6th or thereabouts.

2. Land mines in Vietnam.
I say we sell them thousands of goats and a few sheepdogs. Send the goats through all the fields. When all the landmines have been found, they can get their skinny asses back to work making growing rice and making Nikes.:smokin:

[Islandborn]

D of N,
Didn't know there was a shakeup here, too bad. I was a regular @ CannabisWorld until they destroyed that fine site. Came here when I decided to make the switch to hydro last year.

At any rate, liberal politicians aren't interested in helping anyone, only consolidating power.
It's that whole give 'em a fish/teach 'em to fish thing. Liberal democrats will give enough fish to get your vote and keep your heart beating but if they teach you to fish, you don't need them anymore.

Been reading Mark Levin's "Tyranny and Liberty" lately. I highly recommend it if you're interested in how we got to where we are today.
I have less tolerance for liberals with every turn of the page:).

But we're losing sight of this thread!!

1. Nazi armies controlled by the CIA in 1950.
1945 pretty much ended it for the Nazis didn't it, June 6th or thereabouts.

2. Land mines in Vietnam.
I say we sell them thousands of goats and a few sheepdogs. Send the goats through all the fields. When all the landmines have been found, they can get their skinny asses back to work making growing rice and making Nikes.:smokin:

Amazing Book.....Enjoyed it from beginning to end.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Didn't know there was a shakeup here, too bad.
aw, management just changed its vision of this site, aiming more toward the medical aspects and and attempting to discourage the social side of the community. quite a few folks left and, though the grow section was hurt less, the sub-forums like politics and such were kinda left to founder.


liberal politicians aren't interested in helping anyone, only consolidating power.make that all politicians and i'll agree with you 100%.

[psychocat]

The talk of foreign goverments allowing sweatshops of course raises the question of how these people came to power.
Could it be the result of support (either financial or military help) from interested outside parties, Pinochet gained power because of American paranoia.
There is much talk about Iran attempting to build nukes and the sanctions they should face and yet we stood by and in some ways even helped Israel achieve thier own nuclear status.
The west has an awful lot of skeletons rattling around in sooooo many closets.

[boaz]

The west has an awful lot of skeletons rattling around in sooooo many closets.

yeah, i agree. it can be an evil dog eat dog world at times and we have some the meanest dogs right here in the west. but the west (us, uk, canada) also does a lot of good in the world, too.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

The west has an awful lot of skeletons rattling around in sooooo many closets.no nation can exist for long without making enemies and stepping on a few toes and the larger, more powerful the nation, the more enemies it makes. people today don't speak much about the atrocities committed by spain, france and england in their heyday. those are faded powers and of little consequence. we even seem to have forgiven the millions massacred by stalin and his progeny for the sake of the great socialist state and the similar barbarity of china's perpetual "communist revolution". great nations have always attempted to impose their will on lesser nations and even small countries have interfered in the affairs of their neighbors. that is the nature of power and the men who wield it. it may not be right or fair, but it is reality.

now it is america's turn to be reviled for its part in the shaping of the world and i suppose it's only natural. what i do find rather odd is the lengths to which this country's detractors will go in their search for the evil that hides in the american heart. the various dictatorships that america has supported over the years are invariably brought up as evidence of our malicious nature. labeled "puppet regimes", their opposition is usually glorified as the popular resistance or freedom fighters and romanticized as altruistic men and women giving up their lives for the good of the people. the truth, before history is revised for the sake of agenda, is seldom so romantic. backed by another powerful nation, usually with an ideology contrary to that of the u.s., the revolution is almost always merely a power struggle between opposing domestic forces under the influence of outside powers. the people themselves are of little concern to the combatants, it is the power that rests in the people that is being fought over.

for decades the soviet union and the united states battled for the supremacy of their respective ideologies in such a manner, each assured that their way of life was good and the other evil. in what seemed to be some sort of conclusion, the u.s.s.r., having bankrupted itself in an arms race with the u.s., appeared to fold. ceding a majority of its satellites and reining in its massive defense spending, the cold war was at an end. but it had really just begun. the battle was never about the division of the world between those two superpowers. it was a conflict between two fundamental ideologies, the supremacy of either the liberty of the individual or the will of the collective as translated by a governing body. neither a perfect solution, but the only alternatives that seemed available.

the funny part is that the apparent dissolution of the most prominent proponent of socialism in the world did more to strengthen its cause than to weaken it. under the guise of "helping the people", this enforced collectivism has become the popular cause. it is seen as the underdog in some epic battle and, having been defeated by an overwhelming force, is embraced as the great answer by the struggling masses. the wealth of the victor in that battle is undeniable and the poverty in which a majority of the world exists is equally apparent, so the evil must reside in that victor. it is described by the ignorant masses and their handlers as the good of the many as opposed to the good of the few, but it might better be described as the greed of the mob scrabbling after the possessions of others that they feel their mere existence entitles them to.

so the skeletons are brought out and paraded around. these, along with various bits of anecdotal evidence, are used to stir the members of the mob into giving up their dreams of becoming one of the few and handing their governments the last vestiges of individual power they have left to them. in more civilized climes the lie of the ballot box is used to coerce the citizens into believing they are enforcing their rights to the belongings of others, while in savage lands warlords use more blatant means to wring what wealth and power they can out of the inhabitants. this small experiment in tempering the anger of the mob with justice is soon to come to an abrupt halt, degenerating into just another mindless herd led by the unscrupulous to no particular end.

human beings can be so intelligent on an individual level, but en masse they are among the most ignorant of creatures.






please excuse the rant. i know i've gotten a bit off course, but i'm feeling particularly disgusted with the ignorance of the mob.

[psychocat]

human beings can be so intelligent on an individual level, but en masse they are among the most ignorant of creatures.[/I]

I have a theory that for each tenfold increase in numbers there is a relative decline in the average IQ.

We can look at history and complain of it's injustices but it is the people of today who shape our future.

[scrumby]

I
I'd just like to clarify, though, that the Nazi army was mostly in the form of intelligence, which brought about most of its violence indirectly.

I see no clarity there. You have learned your lessen in violence. Sit

[Islandborn]

Myabe it's the continual dumbing down of schools across the world.

[Islandborn]

Or maybe it's because 85% of the worlds population are the biggest pussies alive and cant handle anything stressful or what they percieve as hard or my favorite " not fair." I dont think the worlds IQ has dropped, it's that the weak pussies run the world and the media thinks they are cute and give them attention cause "thats fair"

[the image reaper]

Or maybe it's because 85% of the worlds population are the biggest pussies alive and cant handle anything stressful or what they percieve as hard or my favorite " not fair." I dont think the worlds IQ has dropped, it's that the weak pussies run the world and the media thinks they are cute and give them attention cause "thats fair"

I agree completely :thumbsup: ... it's like, it won't matter HOW BAD things get, the 'sheeple' will just accept it ... bitch a little bit, and then, accept it ... I don't hate anybody, but liberal 'pussies' just disgust me ... :smokin:

[Islandborn]

I have no patience for pink type personalities who live their lives in fear. Stay outta my way.

Its not a WEALTH issue, its a mental health issue.

[psychocat]

Maybe it's the continual dumbing down of schools across the world.
That is certainly true of the education system in the UK, the celebration of stupidity that is Big Brother and a general relaxation of standards perpetuated by the media add to this.



Or maybe it's because 85% of the worlds population are the biggest pussies alive and cant handle anything stressful or what they percieve as hard or my favorite " not fair." I dont think the worlds IQ has dropped, it's that the weak pussies run the world and the media thinks they are cute and give them attention cause "thats fair"

I feel your opinion on that does not take into account that the real people who run things are usualy well connected through an old boys network that can be seen by even the most blinkered.

Pussies don't run anything, big business does.


I have no patience for pink type personalities who live their lives in fear. Stay outta my way.

Pink ??
Is that a silly reference to communism ?
As for fear, it's something of an alien concept to me.


Its not a WEALTH issue, its a mental health issue.

I fail to see the relevance or point of this comment
Would you care to elaborate ?

[Islandborn]

Good old boy system? What international community has some good old boy connects? I look around and see more things that give more credit to the NWO than some good ole boy system.Maybe between America and England, but we came from England and dont forget our roots, I dont anyway.

Pink-type personality

Da Juana Byrd Professional Psychic/Medium (http://www.dajuana.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=57)

Weak minded folks, not communists.


The comment at the end came outta my ass......saw someones signature said " its not a health issue, it's a wealth issue." Couldnt help butcomment on that hater statement.

[Islandborn]

Good old boy system? What international community has some good old boy connects? I look around and see more things that give more credit to the NWO than some good ole boy system.Maybe between America and England, but we came from England and dont forget our roots, I dont anyway.

Pink-type personality

Da Juana Byrd Professional Psychic/Medium (http://www.dajuana.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=57)

Weak minded folks, not communists.


The comment at the end came outta my ass......saw someones signature said " its not a health issue, it's a wealth issue." Couldnt help butcomment on that hater statement.

wrong post obviously

Personality Types Page 4 (http://powermind.tripod.com/book4.html)

[Islandborn]

That is certainly true of the education system in the UK, the celebration of stupidity that is Big Brother and a general relaxation of standards perpetuated by the media add to this.




I feel your opinion on that does not take into account that the real people who run things are usualy well connected through an old boys network that can be seen by even the most blinkered.

Pussies don't run anything, big business does.



Pink ??
Is that a silly reference to communism ?
As for fear, it's something of an alien concept to me.



I fail to see the relevance or point of this comment
Would you care to elaborate ?

thinking about it, had I had to pick a color to represent communism, it wouldnt be red anymore....it would be GREEN. :D

[psychocat]

Thank you for the clarification .
I don't subscribe to the colour chart for personality as I believe nobody is one colour anyways.
I can be really good to people or thier worst enemy, it's all about the individuality of people and thier actions.

This is however of little consequence and is really starting to stray way off topic.

Using history to justify the present is really pathetic and kind of reminds me of children pointing at thier friends indiscretions in order to excuse thier own behaviour. It just don't wash with me.

The current situation where any country that does not fall into line is threatened with "sanctions" and military action is also very reminiscent of the playground too.
The US goverment has shown it's capacity for dirty tricks on numerous occassions and the US public seems baffled that others view thier nation as overly agressive and manipulative.

Are so many Americans so naieve that they believe thier goverment can do no wrong or is it that they prefer to remain blinkered.

[Islandborn]

Thank you for the clarification .
I don't subscribe to the colour chart for personality as I believe nobody is one colour anyways.
I can be really good to people or thier worst enemy, it's all about the individuality of people and thier actions.

This is however of little consequence and is really starting to stray way off topic.

Using history to justify the present is really pathetic and kind of reminds me of children pointing at thier friends indiscretions in order to excuse thier own behaviour. It just don't wash with me.

The current situation where any country that does not fall into line is threatened with "sanctions" and military action is also very reminiscent of the playground too.
The US goverment has shown it's capacity for dirty tricks on numerous occassions and the US public seems baffled that others view thier nation as overly agressive and manipulative.

Are so many Americans so naieve that they believe thier goverment can do no wrong or is it that they prefer to remain blinkered.


You werent very popular on the playground were ya? Im kidding.

I know America has done bad stuff. Im over it.....really could care less. Sometimes for the greater good you have to make a shitty friend to kill a shittier friend or make sacrifices. Thats life.

[Islandborn]

I had a great time on the playground at school when I was a kid, it was the un-athletic and fat kids that had trouble. Kinda the same in the international community I suppose.

[psychocat]

You werent very popular on the playground were ya? Im kidding.

I know America has done bad stuff. Im over it.....really could care less. Sometimes for the greater good you have to make a shitty friend to kill a shittier friend or make sacrifices. Thats life.

What if you're the shitty friend ?

Bush Sr promised the Iraqis who opposed Saddam that they would recieve help in toppling him only to go back on that promise allowing Saddam to slaughter them wholesale when the US and Brit forces withdrew .

Where I come from if you allow somebody else to fight in your place that makes you a coward.

I'm not in the least bit interested in popularity, I prefer to be disliked for my honesty than liked for a lie.

[Islandborn]

Wasn't that because the United Nations said negative to the full invasion of Baghdad? Shows what listening to that group of elitist blowhards does huh. Life's a bitch. Stop living in fear. America has done shady shit. Shit happens.

Sometimes to topple a terrible nation you have to side with another terrible nation. The Brits know how that works, we prolly lifted ya'lls playbook actually. Only in America, where even our POOR ARE FAT. Too cool.

[psychocat]

What is it with your constant repetitition of the mantra "don't live in fear" ?
I never have and never will, fear is completely alien to me.
I can but die , I do not fear death.
Death is like a patient old friend waiting in the wings for the final act of the play that is my life.

Our acceptance of the past is beyond our control but our actions and perceptions shape the future, I'd like to know what you think of this quote .
"He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done".

By accepting our own goverments abuses how can we then point the finger at others ?

Who decides which regimes are evil ?
Isn't the US just simply guilty of what many would see as international bullying.
The fact is that you can repeat the phrase "shit happens" till you're blue in the face but every point I have made you attempt to brush aside with an inane remark instead of actualy discussing them.

You already professed to not care so I shall close for now and await a serious attempt (by yourself or others) to rebuke the points I've made.

[Islandborn]

What is it with your constant repetitition of the mantra "don't live in fear" ?
I never have and never will, fear is completely alien to me.
I can but die , I do not fear death.
Death is like a patient old friend waiting in the wings for the final act of the play that is my life.

Our acceptance of the past is beyond our control but our actions and perceptions shape the future, I'd like to know what you think of this quote .
"He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done".

By accepting our own goverments abuses how can we then point the finger at others ?

Who decides which regimes are evil ?
Isn't the US just simply guilty of what many would see as international bullying.


The fact is that you can repeat the phrase "shit happens" till you're blue in the face but every point I have made you attempt to brush aside with an inane remark instead of actualy discussing them.

You already professed to not care so I shall close for now and await a serious attempt (by yourself or others) to rebuke the points I've made.

So nations who have done bad things are then void from taking action against nations currently doing dumb shit? So i can beat my kids....learn to control that and stop, and then if I see my neighbor hitting his kids, I cant say anything to him or stop him? Pretty unrealistic.


" I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisom of cats is infinitely superior."

Hippolyte Taine

[psychocat]

So nations who have done bad things are then void from taking action against nations currently doing dumb shit? So i can beat my kids....learn to control that and stop, and then if I see my neighbor hitting his kids, I cant say anything to him or stop him? Pretty unrealistic.


" I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisom of cats is infinitely superior."

Hippolyte Taine

The use of past tense is a touch out of touch.
Are you implying that America and other western nations are now squeaky clean ?
Are you trying to tell me that the exploitation, warmongering and interference in foreign affairs is a thing of the past for the US and the west?
I really find that a tad hard to believe given the evidence to the contrary.

To use your own analogy
The US still beats it's kids but is a screaming hypocrite that then tells others "you shouldn't be doing that".

â??Donâ??t piss down my back and tell me itâ??s raining.â?� Clint Eastwood, The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976) :D :thumbsup:

[Islandborn]

Im so lost on what particular point your going for with this? Sure, i know America isnt clean...sure we dont play fair sometimes.....sure we have a very, very, short successful checkered past, nobody denies that. So what are you getting at exactly? Cause arguing philosophical points goes nowhere fast.

It would be like a thread titled " Englands partition of India and the blood it shed....list attrocities and mean stuff commited by Brits with bad teeth." We could go all day with that, but there is no end game. We do it to further our nations interests i guess.

[Islandborn]

Im so lost on what particular point your going for with this? Sure, i know America isnt clean...sure we dont play fair sometimes.....sure we have a very, very, short successful checkered past, nobody denies that. So what are you getting at exactly? Cause arguing philosophical points goes nowhere fast.

[psychocat]

It has bugger all to do with either history or philiosophy.
The point is that people such as yourself try to justify the wrongs of today by pointing at the past like petulant children who point and say "but Johnny did it", it just doesn't wash as an excuse.
The only way to make changes to the future is to accept the wrongdoing and correct it , instead the majority of people are happy to bury thier heads in the sand and pretend they don't see the truth.

I personally don't really care much for mankind and to be brutally honest I believe we could do with a few billion less people , I do however have an obsession with the truth.
Denial of our faults only allows us to keep believing we are perfect and we most definately are not.

The dirty tricks our goverments use will always come back to bite them or future generations in the arse.

[Islandborn]

What would some example's of wrongs that need correcting, and by whom?

[Islandborn]

I guess I just dont get the whole " Im so dark and mysterious" role. Man has screwed over man since the beginning of time and will continue to do so, I get it. I accept that as part of life. If that makes me selfish or bad or whatever point your getting at, so be it. When it comes right down to it, all I want is for my wife and children and mother to live as nice as possible. Aside from that, everything else is secondary to me. I plan on living and doing exactly as I please until the day I die. And thats the way it should be for everyone. Except for the Brits, for they will be punished for their partition of India & Pakistan and all the babies that cried as a result. Although while I was in London in the Spring, Picadilly looked more Peshawar so I guess they have laughed last. So my bad, there is a wrong thats been righted right there.

[psychocat]

You're really missing the point.
It isn't about correcting the past it's about being honest about our part in the present.

[Islandborn]

You're really missing the point.
It isn't about correcting the past it's about being honest about our part in the present.

Im with ya so far.......I know our nation, like all the others, is involved in some shady dealings. No doubt. Are we talking specifics? Iran....Global Warming...what?