nutes for veg & bloom

[sirruler]

hey peeps :) im just trying to get some sound advice about nutes. i want to try a soiless mix for my next grow media and was wondering what are some 'good' nutes i can use, one for veg stage and one for bloom?

ive been offered some 'big bud' which ive never used before so i was wondering if i can use this for veg and flowering or will i need to get another type of nute for veg stage? also would i need to use the same brand if i do need another nute?
another quick question i have is about a brand called 'sensi grow' anyone know much about this?
when it comes to nutes im a little confused as there are so many different types and i dont want to get the wrong type because its a lot of money to mess about with.
i do have a little bottle of stuff like supervite but cant quite remember the name of it without looking but would i still be able to use that with other nutes. thanks

[LOC NAR on probation]

I can't say about soiless grow I'm full hydro. However same line. Most use Gerneral Hydroponics 3 part fluro series. I hear Sensi is very good too. I use GH but run a modified Lucas formula.

Remember all the top brands are formulated for one thing from the Amsterdam boys. All brands try to match or better each other but are close.

You will need the budblood to use in the first week of flower from then use bigbud as an add on to your nutes for the rest of flower. You really need the two.

It is best not to mix different company nutes. some times with additives you have to but try to stay all one name brand.

[sirruler]

when you say use budblood in the first week of flower do you mean as soon as you switch the lights to 12/12? or as soon as you see the first signs of flower.
i was also going to ask if i can use hydroponic nutes in a soiless mix? i normally just use standard growbags and add nitrogen and a little potash durring flowering and add some supervite all through the flowering stage, seemed to work ok but i want to try doing it properly now.
thanks for your help :thumbsup:

[everTree]

What does budblood due?

[LOC NAR on probation]

It's been awhile since I used budblood and bigbud. I tried it twice with good results, just hard to get for me untill hydro shop just opened near me.
As I remember you used budblood the very first week into 12/12, it kind of sets the plant up to flower faster. Then bigbud finished out the grow untill the flush at the end. Now I'll have to go get some and try it again.

Hydro nutes can be used on any grow. I got my bro using it in and outside with potting soil. His stuff has never looked better but I have to mix it weak.

You will just have to find the mix for soiless. Do a search here cause I have seen alot talking about mixing nutes for your set up and watering schedual.

Oh, no superthive in flower stage. It is only for veg. It kind of messes with the plants and make them think they need to veg more insted of flowering. Lower the nitrogen in flower too. That's a sign for plants to really kick in the buds trying to make seeds for the next generation. Although you don't want seeds, you want plant to keep thinking that to make bigger buds.

[Rusty Trichome]

Superthrive is a concentrated hormone/nitrogen additive. Strictly for veg, as Loc nar mentioned.
Supervite is a multivitamin for humans. It's not a plant suppliment.

Bud Blood is an overpriced additive that you will have to use sparingly. All of that phosphorous and potash can and will throw-off your ph, so pay close attention to plant response after using it.

[Dutch Pimp]

I use to use 20-20-20 during veg...now, I only use a root stimulator after each transplant...(4-10-3)...:thumbsup:...and veg for 30 days..period.

10-52-10 for flowering.

With a 400 watt HID light...it does the deed....:thumbsup:

[sirruler]

thanks guys for all your help i really appreciate it. Rusty i am using Superthrive, i wasnt sure of the name of the stuff off the top of my head so i just made a wild guess but i knew it was super something. i wouldnt give them human vites honist :D
i must admit i have been feeding them Superthrive durring the flowering stage but i didnt read up enough about it so now thanks to the posts here im a lot wiser :thumbsup: its not cheap stuff and ive already wasted about 100ml of it so from now on i will use it only for veg :)
my new plants are 3 weeks and 3 days into flower but the buds look tiny but i guess its the cheap soil ive used plus ive been adding some nutes (nitrogen and potash and Superthrive) so i guess im gonna have to flush them out and start over with some decent nutes. good news tho i phoned a good hydroponics shop and asked for some extra expert help with nutes and i have now bought 5 liters of BigBud and 2x 5 liters of veg and bloom nutes (same brand) ive also took the liberty of buying several large bags of soiless mix. seems cheaper to buy it in bulk and saves me running back all the time :) i just want to do it properly this time and im going to listen carefully to what advice i get on here too.
my present plants i think are fooked, they are tall and spindly with few leaves, some havent even begun to flower yet and they were all clones from the same mother plus started flowering at the same time so i dunno whats going on there :D thanks again

[Rusty Trichome]

thanks guys for all your help i really appreciate it. Rusty i am using Superthrive, i wasnt sure of the name of the stuff off the top of my head so i just made a wild guess but i knew it was super something. i wouldnt give them human vites honist :D
Kinda figured, lol.


good news tho i phoned a good hydroponics shop and asked for some extra expert help with nutes and i have now bought 5 liters of BigBud and 2x 5 liters of veg and bloom nutes (same brand)
Good idea on 'branding', but five litres would last me 5 years. Literally. Shake 'em often, keep from heat and freezing. Sell some if you can, it doesn't last forever. (or grow the best looking houseplants on the block, lol)


ive also took the liberty of buying several large bags of soiless mix. seems cheaper to buy it in bulk and saves me running back all the time :) i just want to do it properly this time and im going to listen carefully to what advice i get on here too.
Is it a peat-based medium? Does it have perlite or vermiculite?


my present plants i think are fooked, they are tall and spindly with few leaves, some havent even begun to flower yet and they were all clones from the same mother plus started flowering at the same time so i dunno whats going on there :D thanks again
Best experience you can get is hands-on. If you have the room or the time, I'd like to see you pull 'em through, as there is still promise. Worse case scenario...they die, but you get a learning experience that's invaluable. But if it works, then so much the better. Experience and pride of accompolishment are not something you can readily purchase at the hydro store. :thumbsup:

[sirruler]

i am not sure what is in the soiless mix as i just asked for a soiless mix and explained im starting from scratch with little knowledge but he was really helpful and understanding infact he was a great help :) i will know in 10 days time because he didnt have any BigBud in the store because they have had troubles getting it into the UK from what i was told. i dont mind the wait tho as i still got 5 weeks left with the ones i have going now.

i didnt know that the nutes or boosters didnt last long but its ok tho i know a couple of friends here that also grow the odd one or two so im sure they would buy a little :) im just waiting for my batteries to recharge for my camera and then i can take a few pics of my plants so i can post them here. i guess its easier to see what someone is talking about when you can actually see it for yourself.

my avatar pic is the same strain i am using now but that was from a previous crop last year, as you can see they done alright but last crop and this crop arnt so good they just wont swell up. on a bright note they are always 'really' strong when smoked so thats a little bonus but its a shame the buds are always small. i will try and get some pics on here tomorrow of this crop. their all under a 600w HPS grolux and a cooled hood in a budbox but the temps are still a little high (82+ degrees) i got a small fan going in there (25watt) but it doesnt cool it much. im just gonna keep my fingers crossed now and hope for the best

[Rusty Trichome]

It's best to get to know your medium, your nutes and your strains. Different soilless mixes are used differently, and have different needs. You will need to provide this information for troubleshooting purposes in the future.

Hmmm...I always thought Big Bud was from Canada.

[sirruler]

the shop is importing it from another country thats why i have to wait 10 - 14 days for it to arrive but not sure where he is getting it from. anyway im back with some pics (taken a few moments ago) maybe you can get a better idea of whats going on.
i can only upload 5 at a time so i will post the next few right after.

[sirruler]

here are the last few pics...
BTW these are 3 weeks and 4 days into flowering today but to be honist the buds look way too tiny for 3 weeks and 4 days of flowering

[Rusty Trichome]

Looks like an awful lot of stretch, possibly from using Superthrive during flower. The growth hormones and nitrogen in it are likely delaying the flowering process, too. A week or so after flushing, likely they will return to full flowering state.

But to cover all bases, how close do you keep the light to the ladies? Are they stretching to reach the light?

In picture hpim252 (top left) you show signs of ph imbalance. What I was taught was 'canoeing', but is sometimes refered to as 'the claw'. What's your water ph, and if you know...what's the runoff ph?

In my flower shed, during the summer, I'd give my left nut to get temps down to 82. :thumbsup

[sirruler]

your gonna laugh lol i really dont know what my PH is, ive never tested it before :D i do need to buy a kit tho. only one or two plants are suffering from deformaties but there are a lot of leaves throughout the tent that seem to curl under around the edges. i have been giving them quite a bit of nitrogen durring the grow and havent flushed all plants yet (only flushed a couple).
i will get a PH test kit this week, maybe i'll look on ebay and save some money :D maybe i should start flushing all the plants today and get it over with but im not sure how long after i should start feeding them again?
i used to keep a marine tank with living rock and stuff and i kept most of my test equipment but funny how thats the only i run out of, only got amonia and nitrate test kits left :( i asume any PH kit will do wether its for water or soil?
i see the dam spider mites are back so its neem oil time anyway so i may as well flush and spray at the same time :D thanks RT

EDIT: i keep the 600w HPS very close (maybe a little too close) something like 5 - 8 inches from the tops but not all are the same height but there are no leaf burn as the light is air cooled.

[Rusty Trichome]

I usually flush on nutrient days. But instead of nutes, they get a good flush with properly ph'd water. Allow the soil to dry for a day or two, then resume your normal nute schedule.

If going with the aquarium test kits, get the freshwater one. The ph range is too high with the saltwater one, and if I remember correctly, were a weird shade of purple I couldn't read well. ( I used to keep a few coral reef tanks, too) I've used those soil test kits, but they are a pain in the ass. You'll want to be testing the water, anyway. You can take a water sample to the aquarium store, and let them test it. Should give you a good idea on what to purchase to raise or lower the ph. to within acceptable limits.

I was curious about the lights being too far, but that sounds close enough, lol.

[sirruler]

i think the cheap soil i used didnt help either and it did state clearly on the side of the bag that it was packed with added nutes and should last the life of vegtables lol i dont know why i added more nutes really because its just made things worse.once this grow is done im gonna wash down my tent with a heavy diluted neem oil solution because these dam spider mites keep coming back. just been looking at the bottoms of the leaves and where i sprayed the older leaves they look good but since the newer fresh leaves have grown they have now moved up onto those so its a constant battle.

ive decided to go for a decent digital PH meter cos im fed up with trying to cut corners and do things cheaply now. just costs more in the long run if i dont. i will try doing the same from now on and flush the pots well and leave for a day then feed them and hope i will get lucky too. im just waiting for all my proper soil to arrive along with the right nutes so that i can do things right the next time. i have this annoying problem with my brother coming over and bragging at how great his plants are doing compared to mine but he has help from someone and im not supposed to know about it so i cant ask him for advice, his plants really are doing well and its that which annoys me the most lol
thanks again

[headshake]

i will get a PH test kit this week, maybe i'll look on ebay and save some money

i picked a freshwater pH test kit at petsmart for $6 or so and a bottle of pH down (my water ran over 8!) for another $3 i think.


-shake

[sirruler]

ive never actually tested my water in all the 20 years ive lived here but i can tell you we get a serious lime scale problem here :D maybe when i get a tester i might buy a hammer and chescle too lol

[Rusty Trichome]

If getting the ph pen, you might want to think seriously about getting the calibration solution, and the shit they sell to keep the electrode wet. If the electrode dries, it skews the results and will need to be replaced. Unfortunatelly, getting it wet again doesn't work. For now you might want to go with the aquarium ph kit, but keep in mind you won't be able to get an accurate runoff ph. (tints in the runoff skew the color-coded results)

Once you've got the potential ph issue resolved the leaves above the canoeing fans will turn a pale greenish yellow/purple. After this, normal color and growth should return.

If water ph shows ok, keep in mind that it might be a lack of lime in the cheap soil, or the lime (a ph buffer in soil and soilless mixes) might already be depleted. :thumbsup:

[sirruler]

ah thanks for those tops RT, first thing monday morning i will get one of those pond PH test kits and give it a try. infact i might see if they are open tomorrow as i have to travel past that store anyway. any results i will post back here :)
the leaves that have curled under feel like leather and are pretty tough but are also really dark green (something ive never seen before) and with many of the leaves disformed was making life hard to fault find but im pretty sure that your right and that its the ph to blame.
our water supply here isnt that good at all and the last 2 years its started to smell more like bleach which isnt good at all. i wouldnt ever drink from it unless it was boiled first :D if plants had toes they would have curled upwards too by now after drinking our tap water :D

[sirruler]

back again! well i just ordered a digital PH tester, i know i know i should have gotten one of those packet testers but the price of them here is crazy and it worked out a LOT cheaper in the long run to get a digital one. im hoping it will arrive tomorrow so i can run a test on it. if i am still not sure about the results the i will take a water sample up to the aquarium and get a freeeeeee test :D

ive flushed all of my plants with 4 - 5 times the pot size of clean fresh water directly from the tap. although i dont know the PH yet it has to be better than leaving all that excess food in there.

BTW i did forget to mention that i was also feeding them general tomato feed as well. for some reason it did wonders with my first grow and gave me 2ft long buds (seen in my avatar) but i think a lot of the probs this time was mainly crap soil and the other stuff i added durring flowering but time will tell :)
since i have flushed them (2 days ago) they have grown even more in height and they stink a LOT more but i think the moisture from the pots is contributing to that. the air in the tent sure feels moist and there is no way to stop that appart from wait until most of it has evaporated. this soil does hold water a little too much. i'll post back with my PH results as soon as i get them :)

[sirruler]

ah im back and this time with a PH reading :)
i poured water from the tap into a cup and inserted my PH meter and it reads 7.9 so i guess thats a little too high. on one of my growing vids it says you can use vinegar to lower the PH or baking powder to higher it but i'd like a second opinion on using any of these? ive not measured the PH coming out of the pots yet because i am due to water them tomorrow.
also im not 100% sure how to use these digital meters lol i got no instructions with it :D its a red meter with a black cap but has no brand name on it at all. when i remove the cap i see a LED so i am not sure if i am supposed to submerge it into water ot to keep it just above the water but i took the reading by submerging it. im not 100% sure what is the best PH to achieve anyway so tips would be great. thanks again

[LOC NAR on probation]

Show us a pic of the meter please. I bet someone can id it for you.

[sirruler]

this is the meter i have

[LOC NAR on probation]

It looks just like a milwakie PH600. The one I have is yellow but I thought I saw some red ones when looking. You take off the cap and soak it in water over night and keep alittle water in the cap. Only submerge it to about half way so you can still read it. They are water resistant not water proof. You also need the 7.01 calibration solution because there is a small hole in the side where you ajust it with a small screw driver and then your set to go. Mines works very well and gives a quick nimber.

[sirruler]

i didnt get any calibration fluid with it (got it from ebay :D) only payed £9 so i cant complain but it looks brand new, no marks at all. i dont think even if i had the fluid i'd know how to calibrate it anyway.
i found tho by taking a reading yesterday and leaving the bucket of water out over night then testing it again i got 2 very different readings. seemed the PH went up by 0.5 over night which is quite a huge jump for a standard bucket size. hmmm now to get some calibration fluid, i bet that will cost a lot too :D can it be used more than once? anything to save on money :D

[LOC NAR on probation]

Calibation fluid is the only way . 7.01 solution is what you want. It takes a small screwdriver and the small hole on the side of the meter is an adjustment screw. It's real easy, you just turn untill you get 7.0 on the meter. solution can be used again if kept in an air tight container and you clean your meter before calibrating. And don't mix the used solution back into new solution. Just in case you need to check against itself.

[sirruler]

would this be the right stuff to use? HERE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BUFFER-7-pH-Meter-Calibration-Fluid-250ml-and-60ml-Cup_W0QQitemZ280340397701QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet _Supplies_Fish?hash=item414596fe85&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1 |293%3A1|294%3A50)
i cant seem to find 7.01 but i was only looking on ebay :D

[evilgunny]

Hey, as far as the Big Bud goes, it's an additive, not the whole package. I'd use with SensiBloom or Conniseur, I believe starting second through the fifth week of flowering (try the advanced nutrients calculator, I could be/probably am wrong) Advanced Nutrients - Nutrient Calculator (http://www.advancednutrients.com/nutcalc3public/)
It's really simple, just change reservoir size to however much water you're using, what kind of feeding you want(ie light, heavy), and the flowering period of the plants and they'll recommend when to use it. I say WHEN to start using it because every plant is different, so I wouldn't just go off their chart for amounts...

Try the B-52 for midflower if you're pushing them hard. The Overdrive is the last of the AN bloom additives I use, but you could honestly probably just use Big Bud instead.

Good luck :]

Oh, thanks for the tip about shaking nutrients Rusty :thumbsup: Mine are a year and a half old, is there any way to tell if they're still good? I have AN and Botanicare.

[maspino1]

i always use botanicare's pure blend pro line. i use grow for veg, and bloom for flowering (obviously), and liquid karma throughout. i use coir and i get really good results everytime.

[sirruler]

thanks for that info and the link evilgunny, every bit of help is really needed and much appreciated :thumbsup:
well my main problem is that ive used cheap crappy growbag soil but i did add lots of vermiculite and perlite before i potted them and mixed it well but i added nutes as well when there was already nutes added by the growbag company. ive did what Rusty said and flushed them really well then left them for 3 days to dry out most of the water in the pots so i can water them again with decent water. because my nutes and bigbud havent yet arrived from the hydroponics shop im gonna just use tomatoe feed and use according to the directions. they have been watered and fed with tomatoe feed today and i can honistly say they are starting to look loads better though the buds are still small.

i think a lot of the reason why the buds look so small is because of all the stretch which of course spreads all the buds out. well im approaching week 5 now swiftly so its fingers crossed that they start to grow bigger buds :)

i have another question while i am here :) me and my brother have been having an argument about flowering and he says the first 2 weeks you dont count as its called preflower stage and then after the preflower stage you count 6 - 8 weeks of main flowering. so in esssence he is trying to say that its really 8 - 10 weeks of flowering :mad:
i keep saying you start counting the weeks from the day you change to 12/12 cycle. can anyone please put our argument to rest because he is really starting to bug me :( the seeds i have say 6 - 8 weeks of flowering but do i add an extra 2 weeks on top for preflower stage too? thanks

[Rusty Trichome]

A lot depends on maturity level when you put 'em into flower. If you put them in there before they start showing preflowers, then you wait, and start counting from the point they start showing the calyxs and pistols.

If they are showing preflowers prior to switching, then technically the clock has started clicking, but is on 'pause' till ambient conditions warrant flowering.

Either way, the plant's metabolism takes a week or two to switch from vegetative growth, to the flowering cycle...depending on growroom specifics and strain. I add this adjustment period to the flowering time.

I pretty much stopped getting caught-up in worrying about actual flower times, as there are many factors that can delay the time to maturity, yet virtually none to speed-up the process. Stuff like heat, cold, ph fluctuatuions, over/undernute, old bulbs, crappy soil...are stresses that will affect the ladies.

Breeders' strain info is a guideline, not cold-hard fact. Unless you are using their grow techniques, their nutes, their bulbs, their pots, and their growroom controls, your results may vary. :thumbsup:

[sirruler]

ahh nicely put and easy to understand :)
basically they were all clones and grew to about 1ft high (some shorter) and i put them into the flowering room before any signs of preflower so i guess i should allow an extra week or two and im taking into considderation all the crappy soil and over nutes ive gave them not to mention the poor PH levels in the water.
im still having troubles finding some PH callibration fluid 7.01 so far all i can see it callibration fluid 7 or 7.00 so im not sure if that would do the same trick?

now they are in week 5 i notice i have begun to smell them even though i got a brand new filter connected (100mm ducting type) so i figure i have a small leak somewhere on the tube inside the tent so thats another task for me to do this week before they really start to honk the place out :D

after your good advice Rusty about flushing and PH and feeding they are really starting to look better, bob marley would be proud :rastasmoke:

thanks :)

[Rusty Trichome]

...after your good advice Rusty about flushing and PH and feeding they are really starting to look better, bob marley would be proud :rastasmoke:
thanks :)
Is he another grower? <kidding> Thanks, and best of wishes for further success. :thumbsup:

Milwaukee ph pens are programmed to recognize 7.01 calibration solution, but if you do not also purchase the storage solution, I'd think about getting the Milwaukee 4.01 calibration solution. They recommend this on the instruction sheet, but don't mention it at all in the product info prior to purchase. You can't let the electrode dry, or it will kill it's accuracy.

Discount Hydro (dot com) has what you need. Search Milwaukee ph pen once there, it'll take you to the proper page. :jointsmile:

[sirruler]

will look for that thanks. when i remove the cap there is only a LED but it doesnt look as though it can be removed not that i tried. i only payed £9.08p for it on eBay :D it said it was used only once but i think they all say that just to sell it lol

anyway the lights have been off for about 2 hours now and the smel is deffo getting stronger. seems pointless having a fan and filter in there cos the smell still gets out :D everything i got is new and being used for the first time but where they are starting to stink it makes life hard for me cos i cant take all the plants out to look for the leak cos they stink out my home :wtf: i might use a joshstick and poke it about to see where the smoke gets sucked out from, cant think of anything else.

[Rusty Trichome]

Re-reading my post, seems I might not have been all that clear about the claibration solutions. If you can't afford both the calib. solution and the electrode storage stuff, the pen's instructions say that the 4.01 calib. solution can be used for electrode storage, too. (in case other members are in the same boat)

Might want to get the electrode (the LED looking thing) into water at the very least, and let it soak overnight before use, however white or brown vinegar lasts longer, and it doesn't let algae grow. Not sure it will help now, though.

You might want to take it to an aquarium store to see if they can determine it's accuracy for ya in both the saltwater (8.3 ph) and freshwater tanks, (7.0 ph) if they keep their tanks right on the money. Accuracy within a point or two is still workable, but keep in mind the difference when actually using it, and look for any wild/unusual ph swings. (don't trust it too much, lol)

[sirruler]

i have no idea how long those LED's last anyway lol i will however get that fluid as soon as i am able too (need money first lol)
i was also gonna say about boiled water, when i grew my very first plants i used boiled water poured into a large bucket and left over night or a few days and they grew excellent with no probs at all but since using water directly from the tap well its been nothing but probs. im wondering if boiled water or (pre boiled) is best to use? i did take a PH reading of tap water and pre boiled water and there was a huge ph difference but thats taking into consideration that the ph meter hasnt been calibrated yet. there was a difference of about 1.2 because the tap water was reading at 7.9 and the pro boiled water next day read 6.7.

maybe it would be cheaper to hire some indians to come do their rain dance when ever i need to water the girls :D

[Rusty Trichome]

Rain is no good for growing cannabis. Too many contaminates and too acidic. So ixnay on the ativesna, lol.

Water temp affects ph readings. Were you perhaps testing cold water from the tap against room temp water?

[sirruler]

dam now thats something i didnt think about, yup i tested the water in the bucket at room temp and the water from the tap was tested strait away at a different temp.
now you have me scratching my head lol i have a few video documenterys on growing and most say that rain water is the best as its more pure and the ph is more stable. i guess this could also depend highly on where in the world the rain falls.

[sirruler]

woooohoooo my nutes finally arrived :) this is what i bought:

1 litre of Big Bud
5 litres of IONIC Hydro Grow
5 litres of IONIC Hydro Bloom
5 litres of IONIC Hydro Boost

ok now the next question lol
i think i understand when and how to use the bloom and grow but not too sure about how or when to use the Boost? also will it be ok to use the Boost and Big Bud (if they are both used durring flowering)

dam this is all confusing, i still have a lot to learn :(

[sirruler]

Is it a peat-based medium? Does it have perlite or vermiculite?

ok my bags of soil finally arrived so now i can answer that question above :)
the bags i got are called COCO canna and i dont see any vermiculite or perlite in it at all. im not sure if i need to add anything to it either? its pretty fluffy stuff and soft to the touch but anything would compared to what ive been using :D the shop even sent me a free 1ltr bottle of BigBud because the soil was sent too late so thats cool :cool:
should i add any perlite or vermiculite to the soil? or just use it as it is? thanks

[sirruler]

ok i now got some BudBlood which is supposed to be used in the first week of flowering but my question is do i start using it as soon as i change from 18/6 to 12/12 or do i wait til i see the first sign of preflowers and then start using BudBlood? anyhelp on this would be great cos i dont wanna mess up my next plant. thanks