Pale Droopy Leaves? Any advice appreciated.

[razzapiggy]

Strain is BlackBerry. Grown in SunShine with r\o water, adding cal\mag. Curious what you guys think.

[razzapiggy]

more information:

pH 5.9

sunshine mix

botanicare pure blend pro

add cal mag about 1.5 ml per gallon since sunshine already has cal in it

r\h is usually about 40-50%

plants are like 3-4 weeks old, stunted growth lately

ppm around 850

r\o water

8 inch exhaust out... 6 inch in

several fans blowing on them.... haven't really had problems in the past too too much

[lee221186]

i got this problem as well m8. leaves going pale and then yellow and the hole plant is drooping

[razzapiggy]

post some pictures and maybe we can compare?

I am thinking it's N.

Do you have any curling of your leaves... a bit like claws clenching their fists? I'm utterly confused and would LOVE some help here. My plants aren't happy, someone around here HAS to know what this is.

[warfrat73]

Certainly no expert here, but it does occur that it's kind of hard to make a diagnosis based on pics with the HPS on since it shifts the color spectrum and makes everything look pale. In the meantime I've found this page reasonably useful, it's posted in a number of places Marijuana Plant Abuse (http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/plant_abuse.html)... good luck

[phatsesh101]

there is a form around here fill it oput and youll get more looks and bettr reasponses

but with what you said so far sounds like you could be overwatering or maybe its getting to hot or what # sunshine mix , is ur oh 59 going in or coming out souds kinda low for gowing in since peat is naturally aciddic i use #4 and water usually between 65-68 but thats it till i see a form

[lee221186]

they are starting to perk up now because i swiched lights from a orange light to a hps blue spectrum bulb 400w

[Rusty Trichome]

Do you have any curling of your leaves... a bit like claws clenching their fists?
That is typically an out-of-range ph indicator, not nitrogen def.


more information: pH 5.9
Too low for a soil grow. Ph best kept between 6.3 and 6.8 for a soil grow. Which sunshine mix? (there's a dozen or so, isn't there?) Some of their mixes have a nororiously low ph.


add cal mag about 1.5 ml per gallon since sunshine already has cal in it
You can overdo CalMag, and using at full strength is a waste, unless plant is fully-developed and healthy enough to make use of the overabundance of calcium and magnesium.


r\o water
Why...tapwater no good? (just curious)

[VapedG13]

I tell anyone who has drooping leaves and yellowing from the bottom up to pop out their rootball and look to see if you can see the roots on the bottom and sides of the ball....if you can you need a bigger potter...it takes all but 1 min to check the rootball

[razzapiggy]

That is typically an out-of-range ph indicator, not nitrogen def.


Too low for a soil grow. Ph best kept between 6.3 and 6.8 for a soil grow. Which sunshine mix? (there's a dozen or so, isn't there?) Some of their mixes have a nororiously low ph.


You can overdo CalMag, and using at full strength is a waste, unless plant is fully-developed and healthy enough to make use of the overabundance of calcium and magnesium.


Why...tapwater no good? (just curious)


I am growing in SunShine#4 which is soiless, so I keep my pH according to what you are supposed to with Soil-less mixes, 5.7-6.2

SunShine is *Not* soil.

Not over-doing the CalMag, I agree the full strength is an absolute, I do about 20% of what is recommended and have had no problems in the past.

So, none of you have any ideas eh? My pH stick works fine... they really don't look super happy...

I use r\o because my tap water comes out at like 350 PPM and I figured r\o would be better though I haven't really noticed much of a difference.

[razzapiggy]

Also noticing purpling of the stems.

I can jump in there tomorrow when the lights are out to snap a few pictures but unfortunately today I am going to a cancer benefit for a friend who was recently diagnosed.

Tomorrow I can take more pictures and hopefully figure out what's going on here.

[Rusty Trichome]

Is this the stuff?

Sunshine Mix #4 - 3.8 cf compressed (http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134165)

If so...it's a peat based product, and the optimal range for water ph in this medium is, as previously stated, 6.3 to 6.8. I'd aim for the 6.7 to 6.8 range, myself. (adding nutes lowers it further anyway) Although it's not "soil", it's refered to as a potting soil. Most potting soils are peat-based.

The numbers you quote are more for coco or hydro, aren't they? I don't play with hydro, so I'm not at all sure about that. What I am sure of is that 5.7 to 6.2 ph is way too low for the above Sunshine Mix #4.

Also, as the dolomitic limestone in your potting soil degrades over time and use, the ph can eventually take a dive. (adding to an already existing low ph problem)

If that's not it, a link to the proper medium would help, as I must be confused. :thumbsup:

[phatsesh101]

Ive used sunshine mix #4 and and with the lime its more soillike than soiless mixes such as coco or rock which i think are nuetral ph. peat on the other hand is pretty acidic. lime kinda levels it out. prob is though the lime runs out after 2-3 months and your ph will drop which makes it great for clone to flower growing but it can be a pain otherwise.

but to go on would be pointless cause i would just copy quote rusty

i have great results with 6.5-6.8 in #4 any lower and they yellow as a matter fact all peat that ive used mg ff or whatever.

also i would stop with the ro water just let your tap water air out for a day your not growing dro

[razzapiggy]

Ive used sunshine mix #4 and and with the lime its more soillike than soiless mixes such as coco or rock which i think are nuetral ph. peat on the other hand is pretty acidic. lime kinda levels it out. prob is though the lime runs out after 2-3 months and your ph will drop which makes it great for clone to flower growing but it can be a pain otherwise.

but to go on would be pointless cause i would just copy quote rusty

i have great results with 6.5-6.8 in #4 any lower and they yellow as a matter fact all peat that ive used mg ff or whatever.

also i would stop with the ro water just let your tap water air out for a day your not growing dro

They apparently put the lime in to bring the pH back up apparently. I have several friends who are using SunShine with the pH around 6.0, the guys are the Hydro store told me 6.0 is fine too. Looking back, sometimes I give it as low as 5.7 - maybe that's the problem I'm running into. I'll go 6.0+ from now on.

As for using the tap water instead of r\o, I figure if I add the cal mag I'm fine... but maybe you guys are right.

Yes, the type I'm using is what you referenced - thanks for looking it up bro. I've only been vegging these things for like 4-5 weeks so I figure the lime hasn't broken down just yet. I think I'll just up the pH.

I'm running my PPM at about 850. I put 10ml per gallon of Liquid Karma... a mL or two of cal\mag per gallon, and then 8 ML per gallon of Hygrozime. I was told because most of my nutes are organic, I should push these puppies a bit more. I'm going to boost these fuckers up tonight and see if they perk up. I don't think I'll flush, I'm trying to get into flower within 4-5 days. I'll hope for the best, up my pH to 6.0, not a spec lower, and up the base nute to see if maybe they are just hungry. I'll keep you guys posted.

[razzapiggy]

I'm completely shocked that a medium that is seemingly popular like SunShine#4 has such a discriptincy for optimum pH level to use for water. I've used this medium for a long and have always aimed for 5.7-6.2 with pretty good results. This one cycle here I'm having various problems in veg. I'm not closed mind to the idea that perhaps the pH should be higher than what I usually do 5.8-6.0

Perhaps it's a bit individual to each strain, I really don't know? In any case, this situation has me baffled because I'm receiving completely different opinions on something that I figured would be fairly universal all around - has me extremely confused.

In any case, thanks everyone I'll keep y'all posted! Peace!

[Rusty Trichome]

Your ph numbers are for hydro or coco as a medium. You are using neither, so drop those numbers, as they will continue to give you problems. 6.3 to 6.8 in a potting mix...period.

I have nothing to sell you, nor would I set you on the wrong path...and thusly have nothing to gain in offering you misinformation. Are you sure they are recommending 6.0 ph for cannabis in a peat-based soil? If so...they're wrong, and should be soundly thrashed. (and set-straight) :thumbsup:

Takes a couple of months for the lime in the potting soil to degrade, depending on how much buffering it's being forced to do. (the lower the ph, the harder it has to work to buffer the ph...so it's depleted quicker)

Keep in mind that the nutes are (in my experience) acidic, and will lower your ph even further. (a couple of points, minimum for full nutrient compliment)

Organics degrade slower than chemical ferts, (which are broken-down already, and are ready for plant uptake) so careful with the organics. They can and will build-up if not careful.

Ever have a burn or rash on your feet? That's about what the plants feel like while you are burning their feet with acidic conditions. (irritable, tender and stressed) I'd do a mini-flush (equal to the volume of the pot) with water at 6.8 or so. I'd do this before adjusting the nutrients.

Usually it's best to solve problems, and watch for results. Would suck to jump the gun and screw them up even worse. Patience. :jointsmile:

[Italiano715]

Your ph numbers are for hydro or coco as a medium. You are using neither, so drop those numbers, as they will continue to give you problems. 6.3 to 6.8 in a potting mix...period.

I have nothing to sell you, nor would I set you on the wrong path...and thusly have nothing to gain in offering you misinformation. Are you sure they are recommending 6.0 ph for cannabis in a peat-based soil? If so...they're wrong, and should be soundly thrashed. (and set-straight) :thumbsup:

Takes a couple of months for the lime in the potting soil to degrade, depending on how much buffering it's being forced to do. (the lower the ph, the harder it has to work to buffer the ph...so it's depleted quicker)

Keep in mind that the nutes are (in my experience) acidic, and will lower your ph even further. (a couple of points, minimum for full nutrient compliment)

Organics degrade slower than chemical ferts, (which are broken-down already, and are ready for plant uptake) so careful with the organics. They can and will build-up if not careful.

Ever have a burn or rash on your feet? That's about what the plants feel like while you are burning their feet with acidic conditions. (irritable, tender and stressed) I'd do a mini-flush (equal to the volume of the pot) with water at 6.8 or so. I'd do this before adjusting the nutrients.

Usually it's best to solve problems, and watch for results. Would suck to jump the gun and screw them up even worse. Patience. :jointsmile:

I couldn't have said this any better! :thumbsup:

[razzapiggy]

Def. not saying you are trying to misdirect me at all Rusty. In fact, you seem to be one of the smarter guys on this whole damn forum which has me extremely fucking confused.

The very smartest guy at the Hydro store told me 6.0 is perfect for SunShine - I'm just really confused at this point. Another friend who has used SunShine with great results (1lb+ per 1K every single time) told me 6.0 is what he aims for.

In speaking with people on this board, and off this board, I'm again hearing closer to the numbers you are reccomending than the Hydro Shop\ other friends.

Confused to say the least and quite honestly I'm considering just switching over to coco next run through. It seems like a great medium.

In any case, I gave them 6.0 water last night, 16 ml per gallon of the base nute, PPM was 1000...they look better today for sure. Still a bit of paleness on the tops of them, but no more sad weak look. I'm gonna go to one more source tomorrow to talk about this pH issue and I'll report back to y'all. Thanks!

[phatsesh101]

how do you know hes the smartest guy in the store have u blazed his homegrown

you still havent filled out the form what formula pro r u usein when using organics u should nt worry about ph as long as its not way out and since ur medium is soillike and not soiilless its oh balanced somewhat

oh yeah not all baches of sunshine have enough lime ive been told but have yet to experiance for myself

ne way i get over an ounce per cola solid 2 1/2 - 3 ft buds using #4 and do not ph at all, nuetral tap water with organic nutes

[razzapiggy]

Things looking better... didn't do the mini flush, most were looking just fine and the ones that appeared weak are taking to things much better now.

I've increased the pH to 6.1, and I'm climb to 6.3 in the next few waterings, I also more than doubled my base nutrient these past few waterings and they are fine.

I think I was going a bit too easy on them with my base nute (Botanicare Pure Blend Hydro) I recently switched over from SuperNatural which by the way is an extremely easy nutrient to use.

The buddy who had before told me he uses 5.7-6.2 nutes told me he starts low with clones, but then once he is at flowering he uses 6.2 the entire time.

Combination of things here it looks like... low pH and not enough base nutrient. Hopefully they don't get stressed from pH fluctuation, I worked up pretty slowly so I think things will be fine. Keep yall posted - thanks for the info guys

[Divestoned]

Hiya Razza havent seen your mugg in awhile.

I have however seen your plant's lookin better...

Im no "Rusty" fan...but he has good info. and he's certainly right about the PH thing.

Dive:stoned:

[razzapiggy]

do you guys think I'll have fluctuation problems if I raise my pH slowly to 6.4 or 6.5 during flower? It's possible I went as low as 5.8 a few weeks ago... it's been at 6.0 for about 3-4 days now, no problems, and then tonight I raised it to 6.1.

[Rusty Trichome]

Put the ph where it belongs asap. The longer you keep them out of range, the worse the problems will become.



Im no "Rusty" fan...but he has good info. and he's certainly right about the PH thing.
And I'm no fan of Divestoned, but he's right about Rusty. :jointsmile:

Is this all you're good for Dive...sophmoric cheap shots? Don't look now, but your adolescence is showing. :thumbsup:

[razzapiggy]

think if I just shoot straight to 6.4-6.5 they will be just fine eh Rusty?

I think Rusty is a fine guy, at the very least, one of the more experienced and knowledgeable guys around here.

Thanks Rusty

[syde00]

Honestly, they both are knowledgable, just kind of a personality clash imo ;)

[Rusty Trichome]

think if I just shoot straight to 6.4-6.5 they will be just fine eh Rusty?
Shouldn't be any problems at all with correcting the ph. Matter of fact, they'll appreciate it greatly. The older leaves will look like shit till harvest, so don't use them as an indicator. Keep an eye on the new growth. Should start seeing improvements in a week or so. :thumbsup:

[razzapiggy]

You da man Rusty. Shocked, and a bit embarassed I've been growing grass for two and a half years using the wrong fucking pH range. I'm rockin 6.4 now thanks to you and a few others, I noticed a few leaves are curling from UNDER the leave.... very odd, never seen it. Don't think it's really a problem, only a few have several leaves showing this. I'll keep ya updated. I induced flowering this AM. I have a new strain in there, one that my friend is taking down after *five* weeks of 12.12 with great yields, pretty high quality too... will let you know how that turns out

[Rusty Trichome]

I'm willing to bet your yield and quality will improve greatly. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: (two thumbs up)

If the leaves are now curling under (versus canoeing) it's likely from overwatering while correcting the problem ph. A minor annoyance easily corrected. (let the soil dry between watering)

Good luck. :jointsmile: