BREAKING NEWS! McCain is suspending his campaign and is asking Obama to do the same!

[rebgirl420]

Holy shit I just seen it on FOX news!

Here's the news reel: McCain Says He'll Suspend Campaign to Deal With Financial Crisis; Calls on Obama to Do Same; Wants Debate Postponed

I'll post more when it comes.

[rebgirl420]

McCain Suspends Campaign to Help With Bailout

by Sharon Kehnemui Liss, FOXNews.com
Wednesday, September 24, 2008

John McCain asked the Presidential Debate Commission on Wednesday to postpone Fridayâ??s scheduled debate with Barack Obama so that he can work on the financial crisis bailout plan now on Capitol Hill.

The Arizona Republican senator said he will suspend his presidential campaign on Thursday to return to Washington to help with bailout negotiations. He urged Obama to do the same.

McCain Suspends Campaign to Help With Bailout - America’s Election HQ (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/24/mccain-suspends-campaign-to-help-with-bailout/)

[beachguy in thongs]

Newsflash #2- All five presidential candidates plan on burning one, on Capitol Hill, at 4:20 E.S.T. Will decide on next step after they are nice and stoned.

Cannabis needs the economy to crash, forcing us to depend on the real "green".

edit: (Newsflash #2 is not real.)

[SnSstealth]

Newsflash #2- All five presidential candidates plan on burning one, on Capitol Hill, at 4:20 E.S.T. Will decide on next step after they are nice and stoned.

Cannabis needs the economy to crash, forcing us to depend on the real "green".

edit: (Newsflash #2 is not real.)

Still like that one better!!.....lol
whiskytango

[rebgirl420]

Anyway.....


I wonder if Obama will do it.

[stinkyattic]

Psssssht. Publicity stunt.

And then when Obama calls him out on it and tells him he's not president yet, and that if he were serious about being a Senator then he would not have been slacking on his duties to begin with, he'll call him selfish and anti-American and make some great sound bytes to be used on the morning talk radio shows...

I love politics. Can someone get me a refill on my popcorn and ju-ju-beans?

[GoldenBoy812]

ROFL, i dont know what to make of this. In one hand you have McCain, who is an absolute idiot. In the other you have Obama, who is very much so a borderline socialist. Neither of which need to be playing a part in our countries financial mess.

Both should just continue their financial campaign.:jointsmile: I mean presidential campaign:wtf:

McCain is looking to improve his image on Wall Street, as he brings very little to the table.

[rebgirl420]

Not everyone thinks that McCain is slacking off on anything. He's not perfect (I wanted Ron Paul and McCain is prime example of what Ron Paul is NOT) but a far better choice than Obama. Who many also think has been slacking off on his job (writing 2 memoirs but no laws is a dandy example).

And if Obama really freaking cared he would have done this to begin with. It doesn't matter if this was a publicity stunt, at least he's getting off his ass and attempting to do something about the economy. It's still better than doing nothing.

[phatsesh101]

it doesnt matter whose the president cause the illuminati controls the world

[GoldenBoy812]

Not everyone thinks that McCain is slacking off on anything. He's not perfect (I wanted Ron Paul and McCain is prime example of what Ron Paul is NOT) but a far better choice than Obama. Who many also think has been slacking off on his job (writing 2 memoirs but no laws is a dandy example).

And if Obama really freaking cared he would have done this to begin with. It doesn't matter if this was a publicity stunt, at least he's getting off his ass and attempting to do something about the economy. It's still better than doing nothing.

I am not positive, but i really don't think that McCain is a member of any significant banking or economic committee. Of course i could be wrong:)

[stinkyattic]

Talking about the economy and doing something about it are two different animals entirely. I hear lots of people talking, but no one is really SAYING anything meaningful, although it does make for great 20-second news 'stories' on Fox...

Dammit, I've got popcorn kernels stuck in my grill.

OMG Billi I love your pelican. And he's talking in the voice of the wrecker driver from Harold n Kumar I.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Smart move on his part. Obama is ahead in the polls, so McCain does something that seems "presidential". :wtf:

[stinkyattic]

Smart move on his part. Obama is ahead in the polls, so McCain does something that seems "presidential". :wtf:See, that's where I get my feathers ruffled. We HAVE a sitting president, all comments to his efficacy aside, so McCain is overstepping his authority by trying to act too 'presidential'.

[rebgirl420]

Yeah but I doubt Bush minds. He knows his place when it comes to McCain.

[rebgirl420]

And maybe thats what he's going to do in Washington.

[TheMetal1]

I love how we are in the middle of a "war" and the financial crisis is the one they want to postpone things for. Apparently, it is easy to resolve the situation in the middle east and campaign... but money problems require us to shut the show down and forget we are trying to choose a President.

It's not like everyone is saying "Shit, I wish McCain and Obama would come back to the Senate so we can figure all this economic stuff out." We NEED them to stay campaigning and PROVE who is best to lead.

Yes, it is just ONE debate, but with a number of weeks left to PROVE you are the person for the job... I don't feel we have that time to waste.

Why don't we just postpone the entire election until all of our problems are solved?

[stinkyattic]

Yeah but I doubt Bush minds. He knows his place when it comes to McCain.
*Imagining him kneeling down before McCain waiting to be tapped on the shoulder with the Sword of Authority or at least the Sword of Not Looking Like A Damn Fool*

Edit: Indeed, Metal1. We still have 98% of our sitting Senators available to Senatate. Now as for how many of them are showing up for votes... :rolleyes:

[stinkyattic]

"I am calling on the president to convene a leadership meeting from both houses of Congress including Senator Obama and myself -- it is time for both parties to come together to solve this problem."You know the boss guy in the Dilbert comics? I can see him saying those exact words.
HAHAHAHAHA 'leadership meeting'. How about Total Quality Audits next?

[rebgirl420]

I don't care, I still think that he should be working AND campaigning. Were paying him after all. Might as well get all you can from him before he subcumbs to a heart attack or something.

[FakeBoobsRule]

What exactly is McCain going to do? :stoned:
Well they are both Senators and they have to vote on any bail out plan or major economic reform and they are scheduled to go on recess Sept. 26th. I"m sure half othem have already started vacations so they need everyone to come back and get something worked out before they go on recess. Seems like it would be hard to work anything out if part of their attention, McCain, Obama, the other Congressmen and women whoever, is on the debate scheduled for Sept 26th.

[TheMetal1]

Obama say:

"Thanks... but no thanks." :rasta:

-at least for now ;) I'm heading to school and I just caught part of his statement... wouldn't be suprised if all this is backwards when I get home.

[daihashi]

What astounds me is that people are bashing McCain for attempting a bipartisan solution. Stunt or not if Obama refuses then he looks partisan and will look stupid sitting at the debates ALONE. Accepting is the only logical answer.

Both of these senators are sitting senators and as such they should put their current Job as the priority. Time doesn't stop just because you are running for President.

We have a congress with Nancy Pelosi at the head who throws tantrums and refuses to have bipartisan talks to come to resolution on just about anything.

It is beyond me how the people in this forum cry cry cry about how McCain doesn't give a crap and then when he actually does something commendable, publicity stunt or not, you still bash him. This is a perfect example of blindly directing your hate at someone for no legitimate reason.

Go look at McCain since the 90's, he's always talked about practicing bipartisan support, has been hated by his own political base because of it. It's not like this is the first time he's done something like this.

Some of the people in here who replied I really thought would have more sense than that. I will leave those persons names out however.

If Obama had suggested this you would be praising him as if he were the second coming of Jesus proposing cooperation between parties for the better of humanity. You can deny it all you want but you can go through quite a few Obama posts in here and see that.

Personally I hate both these candidates but I'm glad someone has got some sense to address what is important RIGHT NOW!! With the demand for 700 billion by friday it makes TOTAL SENSE that McCain would want to talk about this and put off the debates. After friday it will be TOO LATE and the 700 billion will go through.

Anyway you look at it, this is the right thing to do. We've had a piece of crap congress for the last 3-5 years... if putting everyone on the spot get's them off their asses to do their job then by all means.. I am in support of it regardless of which candidate proposed it.

For once people throw your friggin bias out the window and get a clue.

[The Figment]

I am a Obama Supporter and Will Not Be Voting For McCain...
That being said I think that this a good idea....They can put off the Debate till Sat or Sun. I don't think the average American realizes just how bad this will be if they don't fix this....And Reasonably Fast!!!!! Its not that the Feddys are trying to stop a repeat of the 1929 Stock Market Crash.....They are trying to stop a repeat of 1932....Read 'The Grapes of Wrath"

[daihashi]

I'm more interested in his motives.

Why does he do what he does? What's in it for him? Everybody is motivated by something. I'm not bashing what he's doing, I just want to know why.

You should be more concerned at the moment with the mess we're in. Even Obama acknowledges that there are times when there is no room for politics, and now is one of those times. However he has not yet agreed to put off the debate with McCain.

The topic for this Friday does not cover economic policy but rather foreign. Which is McCains strong point and Obama's weak point. McCain stands nothing to gain by delaying this debate.

Motives aside the president and congress need to SERIOUSLY address this issue. It is not something that can be put on hold with Friday being the proposed deadline for the bail out.

[daihashi]

Not arguing with you there.

But like they're really going to put politics aside... it's all politics, baby. :stoned:

Of course it is, but this is one time I'm glad to see some politics being played, because in this particular situation it MIGHT actually get something done in congress.

[GoldenBoy812]

We'll see if it has any impact on the overall outcome of the ordeal. :stoned:

I doubt it will. This thing has to get signed into effect. One of the hang ups was "golden parachutes", which is minimal compared to the vast salaries needed to employ the 1,000 plus fund managers needed to operate this maneuver.

The senate should have signed the bill into effect today, and with democrats being the controlling side, they will get some of their demands.

[thcbongman]

I'm more interested in his motives.

Why does he do what he does? What's in it for him? Everybody is motivated by something. I'm not bashing what he's doing, I just want to know why.

To be fair, you should ask Obama the same thing.

Just look at both McCain and Obama's voting records and tally how many no votes they have between them. It's disgusting. They're afraid to take positions on a majority of issues. Both of them had voted on amendment attached to a certain bill but did not vote for the bill itself!

Besides that point, none of them work in these committees that play a major role in working towards the issues. Aspects of the bailout would be touched on the majority of committees because of the wide variety of issues that arise. It's nice if both suspend their campaigns, but I think it's a cry from McCain to stop the bleeding. Good move though.

[Fencewalker]

Actually, Obama's reasoning for continuing the campaign and debate seem to me to be spot on...These two simplet....err candidates are competing to be in charge of the mess left by the current administration and now more than ever we the people need to hear what they plan on doing to try and correct the sinking ship.

McCain acting like riding back to Washington and working on this full time will make any difference whatsoever is a bit silly in my opinion. Perhaps if McCain had been in Washington and voted on bills (no vote since April on anything) or Obama as well (no vote on anything since July) things might have been different.

Then again, you would think that somebody that aspires to the Presidency should be able to multi-task. :rolleyes:

[dragonrider]

This is a major stunt.

Earlier this week you had John McCain saying we shouldn't rush into anything, we need to be prudent. But now it's suddenly such an urgent emergancy in his mind that it can only be fixed by both him and Obama joining their power rings on the floor of the Senate! Ludicrous.

What is really going on is that this crisis has been hurting McCain politically. So he is doing a "maverick" stunt to look decisive and like a man of action. But like everything else hs has done lately, it has backfired. It looks like he is ducking the debates for bogus political reasons. People know it is not up to these two senators to fix the problem. The people who are to fix it are working on it right now. Obama and McCain should be participating in their proper roles, which they can do from anywhere in the country. And they should return for the vote. It's not up to them to swoop in and save the day.

In fact the whole idea that McCain and Obama should be the ones to patch this up is more disruptive than anything. I was watching an interview a minute ago in which one commentator claimed that the Congress was near a deal today and could have passed something as early as this evening, but the McCain announcement threw a bomb into the whole deal. I don't know if that is true or not, but it seems like he is probably doing more harm than good.

It's absolutely BS on the part of McCain to say this is about suspending politics for the good of the country at a moment of crisis --- this is 100% about politics and the fact that he is getting hammered. This is an election --- there is no way to "suspend politics" for now. Everything either of these candidates does is seen through the prism of politics, and they both know it. Definitely the suggestion that they suspend politics for now is a political move.

[dragonrider]

What astounds me is that people are bashing McCain for attempting a bipartisan solution.


The funny thing about the partisan and bipartisan dynamics that are working out right now is who is on what side and why.

The Preisdent is the one who has asked for the bailout and made the case that it is vitally important to get it done NOW.

Most of the house and senate have agreed about the urgency of the situation but are hung up on details, and also hung up by the fact that most of the electorate HATES this baliout. It is actually Democratic congressional members who are supporting the bailout from a policy point of view, but who are most squeezed by the election politics of it not being popular. Many Republican congressional members are actually against the bailout from a policy point of view.

So you have Republicans threateneing to vote against it. And you have Democrats saying, Well, I support it, but I'm not going against my constitutency and siding with freakin' BUSH, if the Republicans aren't even going to vote for it!

McCain is in a very bad spot politically, because his party is in most disarray over it, and becasue he has the most political need to distance himself from Bush.

Obama offerred the best bipartisan approach. Their postions aren't that far apart on this thing, so he suggeted to McCain that they issue a joint statement. McCain agreed to that today, then apparnelty blindsided him with this "suspend the campaign" BS. Maybe they will still do the joint statement. That would probably be the most productive and least disruptive approach.

[Psycho4Bud]

This is a major stunt.

Earlier this week you had John McCain saying we shouldn't rush into anything, we need to be prudent. But now it's suddenly such an urgent emergancy in his mind that it can only be fixed by both him and Obama joining their power rings on the floor of the Senate! Ludicrous.

The government is looking at a $700 Billion bail out and people don't think that the two SENATORS should show up for work? I find that ludicrous! :wtf:

With this sort of thing, if ANYBODY from congress or senate isn't there they should be fired, impeached, whatever you do with the waste in D.C.!!!

Have a good one!:s4:

[dragonrider]

The government is looking at a $700 Billion bail out and people don't think that the two SENATORS should show up for work? I find that ludicrous! :wtf:

With this sort of thing, if ANYBODY from congress or senate isn't there they should be fired, impeached, whatever you do with the waste in D.C.!!!

Have a good one!:s4:

It's definitley a HUGE deal and they should all be doing what they can in their proper roles.

McCain's a bit full of himself if he thinks he is so important to the solution that he needs to put the election on hold while he goes and rescues us. From what I have seen of both their statements regarding what they want to see in a deal, it is pretty much the same, and pretty much the same as what EVERYONE is saying, except for those that want NO deal at all.

So what is Super Maverick going to do when he gets there? Push aside the comittee members whose job it is to work out this deal and say "I'm in charge and this is how it's gonna go?" It's BS. He and Obama are not much more important than any of the other senators on this issue, and they are LESS important than the committee members actually working on it. Believe me, they'll call him if they need him.

[daihashi]

It's definitley a HUGE deal and they should all be doing what they can in their proper roles.

McCain's a bit full of himself if he thinks he is so important to the solution that he needs to put the election on hold while he goes and rescues us. From what I have seen of both their statements regarding what they want to see in a deal, it is pretty much the same, and pretty much the same as what EVERYONE is saying, except for those that want NO deal at all.

Last I checked both McCain and Obama were part of the election. Last I checked they were both senators.. last I checked they were both going to be in a debate on friday. So does it not make sense that McCain is trying to coordinate with the Obama Campaign as well as the presidential debate people in order to delay the debates to get a resolution?

Full of himself? More like going through the proper channels to put priorities first and everything else on the back burner temporarily.

Though you didn't necessarily say anything bad about McCain you refuse to acknowledge the obvious which cannot be denied. BOTH of these candidates need to put the campaign on hold so that they can do THEIR JOB!

I don't see that as McCain being full of himself.



So what is Super Maverick going to do when he gets there? Push aside the comittee members whose job it is to work out this deal and say "I'm in charge and this is how it's gonna go?" It's BS. He and Obama are not much more important than any of the other senators on this issue, and they are LESS important than the committee members actually working on it. Believe me, they'll call him if they need him.

No they're not more important but their in the middle of an election. He proposes they put that on hold and get back to congress and DO THEIR JOB!

Do you not understand that they still have an obligation as senators and McCain is asking Obama, as a senator, to go back to washington to do their jobs.

I don't feel there is anything wrong in that, but if you want to paint McCain as a badguy then by all means go for it. It seems that instead of realizing the obvious you would rather misinterpret the intentions of his statement.

Political move or not, he is more or less saying let's go back and do our jobs over this CRITICAL issue.

If you can't see that then I can't explain it any further because you will just want to view it as pointless when it is anything but the sort.

[daihashi]

Yeah, I agree. If I were Obama, I'd definitely play along at least. I mean if McCain wants to play Mr. President, so should Obama.

I hardly consider calling to go back to Washington to your LEGISLATIVE job as playing Mr. President.

Now making a mock seal of the presidential seal during your campaign or giving speeches in foreign countries where former presidents gave historic speeches.... that's playing President.. Hrm I wonder which candidate did that :hippy:

[daihashi]

McCain suspends campaign, Obama plans to continue - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/campaign.wrap/index.html)

Obama says no to McCain. This was a pretty dumb move to be honest. Even if it were a political move by McCain, Obama by saying no has given McCain all sorts of ammo to throw back at him

Neither one of them are president yet and have an obligation to fill as sitting senators.

Oh well.. It's funny how he'll meet with any foreign leaders with no pre conditions but he won't even meet with John McCain for anything.. not for a town hall meeting, not for an overseas trip to iraq, not to do their job in the senate..

Wait.. I forgot Obama hardly votes anyway.. this is doing his job. LOL :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[daihashi]

We shall see.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/us/politics/25mccain.html?ref=us

He's right.. it is part of the presidents job, neither one of them are president though and this situation we're in is far more important than the presidential debates which can be delayed a few days or a week without it being detrimental to either of them.

I'd prefer to see them place all their focus into their legislative jobs as opposed to a job that one of them may not get.

But to each his own. If we want to pay Obama a huge salary to ignore what's important then I guess that's fine by you, but not by me.

[daihashi]

Stop.

Who's our president again? :stoned:

George W. Bush, who is New York now and I believe heading to Washington Thursday or Friday to address this as well. :thumbsup:

If even Bush can get off his ass and recognize this then why doesn't our entire government focus on this. I guess Obama feels his legislative position isn't as important as his campaign.

I guess it's for the best, like I said Obama doesn't vote very often either. Why are we paying him again to sit and do nothing?

You can google his voting record if you don't believe me. 2/3rds of his votes are NV... no vote. The man rarely takes a stance as it is. I guess it's no surprise that he wouldn't place all his focus on this issue either. :hippy::hippy:

[daihashi]

Bush to Meet Obama, McCain, Congressional Leaders on Rescue (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJa4e4bBApRs&refer=home)

[daihashi]

All Obama said was he wasn't canceling the debates.

And Bush is there only because he has to be. :stoned:

He'd rather be in his tree house reading Superfudge.

e6jMITU9wuM


But this isn't about Bush.

Wonder what the McCain campaign is needing the time off for... ;)

There is a good chance that issues won't be resolved in 1 day and that congress will have to hold an extended session. I believe that is what McCain forsees.

It's funny you say this isn't about Bush but continue to make comments about Presidents and how Obama says the future president should be able to do more than 1 thing at a time.

Seeing as how we have a sitting President in Office I find his comment moot and pointless. Obama is a senator. Another example of how Obama already thinks he's in the whitehouse.

If you don't want me to bring up Bush then maybe you should acknowledge that neither of these candidates are president yet and should not be acting as so or making any statements eluding to something of that effect.

Obama is going to catch flak for this, no doubt about it.

[Psycho4Bud]

It's definitley a HUGE deal and they should all be doing what they can in their proper roles.

What the American tax payer is paying them for right now is to be senators...not candidates. This is the largest bail out of all time and they SHOULD be at work!



McCain's a bit full of himself if he thinks he is so important to the solution that he needs to put the election on hold while he goes and rescues us.

LMAO!!! I didn't see any Greek Pillars behind McCain as of late. I think Obama is a bit full of himself if he feels that during this $700 Billion expenditure that he can just voice his opinion on the road without showing up at the jobsite. IF he is elected I sure the hell hope he doesn't go for a second term; The Presidents Office is CLOSED till November.

Full of himself.....LOL.

Have a good one!:s4:

[veggii]

shit ! its more like breaking news^ the leaders of the US are putting their 700 billion scam into play! and getting it from you the TAXPAYER and your children who haven't even been born yet will have too pay for this SCAM ! don't let them do this its a SCAM! a 700 billion dollar one! OMG shame on you . :wtf:

[flyingimam]

yeah right

days ago when McCain was ahead in polls our fundamentals of economy were "strong"

a day after he falls behind in polls despite all the photo op goin on with palin, he suddenly decides that we are in such a bad situation that campaigns of both candidates must be suspended and the commission on presidential debates should also listen to him as he is the grand daddy of the nation to postpone the debate

even if he is so needed on the capitol hill, I think Obama kinda got him: we both got our planes and its a 1.5 hour debate... total of 5-6 hours round trip from Washington to Missouri and back.

like that 6 hours which happen to fall in late afternoon/night time is going to be utilized any better if even both of these 2 men were going to do this and go to congress for this bailout plan

conclusion: Either there is something really gravely wrong that we are not being told about

OR

this is a pure populist political stunt, diverting attention from bad performance or possibility of doing so in the debate.

does any1 know if anything like this has ever happened in previous elections?!

From this point on, things are really gonna get exciting... I'm waiting to see the upcoming moves or stunts by either candidates, its worth a show:rastasmoke:

[allrollsin21]

the grasping at straws and desperate explanations are pouring out on these pages and the television screen from the SoCalled Republicans as THEIR SHIP SINKS...A nice long run-on sentence to help take your minds off the gurgling sounds:thumbsup:

[dragonrider]

Though you didn't necessarily say anything bad about McCain you refuse to acknowledge the obvious which cannot be denied. BOTH of these candidates need to put the campaign on hold so that they can do THEIR JOB!

...


No they're not more important but their in the middle of an election. He proposes they put that on hold and get back to congress and DO THEIR JOB!

Do you not understand that they still have an obligation as senators and McCain is asking Obama, as a senator, to go back to washington to do their jobs.

I don't feel there is anything wrong in that, but if you want to paint McCain as a badguy then by all means go for it. It seems that instead of realizing the obvious you would rather misinterpret the intentions of his statement.

Political move or not, he is more or less saying let's go back and do our jobs over this CRITICAL issue.

If you can't see that then I can't explain it any further because you will just want to view it as pointless when it is anything but the sort.

Wrong.

It is not critical that these two men be in Washington or suspend the debates or suspend their campaigns in order for them to DO THEIR JOB on this issue.

How do you think this stuff works? Do you think all 100 senators sit together in a room working things through together? Do you think nothing gets done if one of them is not in the building? No. Party leadership from both sides canvass their membership on what is acceptable to each and what they want, and then it gets hashed out in committee. If a compromise is necessary, they contact everyone to see how they will vote. NEITHER ONE OF THESE MEN HEADS OR SITS ON A RELEVANT COMMITTEE. As long as they are in contact with their party leadership, they don't need to be there, except to vote. They certainly do not need to supend their campaigns.

That's why I asked what Super Maverick thinks he is going to do. Is he going to barge into the committee meetings where he does not belong? Perhaps he will entertain with a song and dance? Maybe he will hold press conferences and look "presidential." I'd say he should spend the time boning up on his debate topics.

Most likely what he will do is disrupt the whole process. If the candidates go to Washington and start staking out sides, this whole thing is going to degenerate into a situation in which every representative and senator is acting as a proxy for his candidate. And that is how this whole thing is going to get screwed up. This is a very imoportant and very delicate situation, and it should not be infected with partisan presidential politics. This is probably the WORST possible time for a crisis like this to happen, right in the middle of an election. Both of these candidates should keep their distance, let their leadership know what they want, just like all the other Senators, and let it get negotiated outside of the context of the presidential campaign by the people whose proper role it is to handle this thing.

I don't criticise McCain for wanting to "do his job." I criticise him for pulling a stunt in the middle of something serious. He knows what his role is as senator, and he is overstepping it and making the situation worse. And he is doing it so that he can appear to be doing more than he really is. It's purely political, and he should not have done it.

[purplehaze11]

Haha I wouldnt even want McCain having anything to do with our economic crisis... hey he put it best himself,

"The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff,'' - John McCain:thumbsup:

[flyingimam]

I have one very defining term for this move by senator McCain: "Gamesmanship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship)"

I quote


The term "gamesmanship" is also used for similar techniques used in non-game situations, such as negotiations and elections.

Each form is frequently used as a means of describing dubious methods of winning and/or psychological tricks used to intimidate or confuse one's opponent. Technically speaking, these tactics are One-upmanship, defined in a later book by Potter as the art of being one-up on somebody else.

[daihashi]

Wrong.

It is not critical that these two men be in Washington or suspend the debates or suspend their campaigns in order for them to DO THEIR JOB on this issue.

Obama says that a president should be able to do two things at once... Remember the flak Bush caught for not dropping what he was doing to see the katrina landfall site?

As callous as it sounds that situation was not nearly as Critical as the one we're in right now as this 700 billion effects the nation on a whole. While a president should be able to do two things at once it's also important that he realizes when something detrimental is on his plate and he needs to stop what he's doing to place focus on it. This is one of those times. They are SITTING SENATORS. Nothing changes that, not their campaign, not the dump I just took.. not anything. They have a job they are still obligated to.


How do you think this stuff works? Do you think all 100 senators sit together in a room working things through together? Do you think nothing gets done if one of them is not in the building? No. Party leadership from both sides canvass their membership on what is acceptable to each and what they want, and then it gets hashed out in committee. If a compromise is necessary, they contact everyone to see how they will vote. NEITHER ONE OF THESE MEN HEADS OR SITS ON A RELEVANT COMMITTEE. As long as they are in contact with their party leadership, they don't need to be there, except to vote. They certainly do not need to supend their campaigns.

I actually found the beginning of this paragraph condescending. I'm not stupid. Fact is we pay them with our tax dollars, this is a critical situation not a vote for getting some money to throw the White Sox a party for winning the world series.

If congress goes into an extended session then yes, I think they will have to suspend their campaigns. I'm sorry but to pull an argument from the left, they are running for president and this is something a president will have to addres correct? So why is it ok for Obama not to show up or stay in Washington if an extended session is called for?

Don't talk to me as if I'm ignorant again.


That's why I asked what Super Maverick thinks he is going to do. Is he going to barge into the committee meetings where he does not belong? Perhaps he will entertain with a song and dance? Maybe he will hold press conferences and look "presidential." I'd say he should spend the time boning up on his debate topics.

No, he intends to participate to do his job. And to be fair president bush actually called both McCain and Obama and urged them to come to washington. I don't believe the idea actually originated from either of these two even though Obama says it was his idea and McCain is portraying it (not directly saying it) as if it were his idea.

You are so eager to trash the other side you don't even see what's important. Let's use your argument that neither one of these people NEED to be there. Well let's use another one of your arguments from the past, both of these Men are running for President. If there is a time of Crisis things need to be stopped to place focus on it. If even lame duck President Bush can do this I would expect Obama to do the same.

I am using your arguments here because my arguments seem to have no effect on you.


Most likely what he will do is disrupt the whole process. If the candidates go to Washington and start staking out sides, this whole thing is going to degenerate into a situation in which every representative and senator is acting as a proxy for his candidate. And that is how this whole thing is going to get screwed up. This is a very imoportant and very delicate situation, and it should not be infected with partisan presidential politics. This is probably the WORST possible time for a crisis like this to happen, right in the middle of an election. Both of these candidates should keep their distance, let their leadership know what they want, just like all the other Senators, and let it get negotiated outside of the context of the presidential campaign by the people whose proper role it is to handle this thing.

Like you said, what's he going to do? He's just 1 man currently who's not President. Same as Obama. Make up your mind... is McCain important enough to sway and delay the process in which a couple of hundred people are involved or is he just another one of the group?

You can't have it both ways. Pick a stance.


I don't criticise McCain for wanting to "do his job." I criticise him for pulling a stunt in the middle of something serious. He knows what his role is as senator, and he is overstepping it and making the situation worse. And he is doing it so that he can appear to be doing more than he really is. It's purely political, and he should not have done it.

Uhh, the debates are coming up on friday. I don't think it's so ludicrous to try to go through the proper channels to delay the debate, coordinate with the Obama campaign to address this issue and then get back on track with the elections.

I criticize you for being overly biased and obtuse to a situation that is critical to all Americans and a situation that every elected politician should currently being in Washington trying to address.

Neither of these candidate need to draft the plan.. to be honest I would prefer they didn't. What they need to do is go to washington, listen to the discussions there.. and VOTE. THAT IS THERE JOB!

[daihashi]

I've yet to see an explanation of Substance from anyone here on Obama's side.

All I've seen are people defending Obama but not explaining.

I've gone through the trouble of explaining why it is Important for BOTH of these men to go to Washington and stay there until it is done.

Also it should be noted that McCain has stated that if the deal is done before the debates on Friday he will attend.. but if they are not he will not be there. He realizes what's important and is putting his electability on the line. The first debates have been historically very important in the election process in determining who will win.

Unless people have an explanation with substance in it.. I will not be participating in this thread any longer. The biased and honestly blind hatred toward the republican candidate is really disgusting. More so this time because whether the move was political or not; McCain saying that they should go and stay in Washington does bare alot of truth in what is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.

He never wanted to cancel the debates, just delay the first debates which topics cover foreign policy; something McCain is strong on and Obama is not so strong on.

But whatever; continue your blind hatred of the opposition who wants to do his CURRENT job. After all you Obama supporters are used to your candidate not voting or showing up for work 2/3rds of the time

:hippy:

[daihashi]

fyi, if people are going to negatively rep me at least have the integrity to come out and join in the conversation and voice your opinion.. or voice what you ahve to say about me.

Don't hide behind the rep system. If you are not participating then I hardly see you having a right to criticize me on a PERSONAL level.

[daihashi]

fyi, if people are going to negatively rep me at least have the integrity to come out and join in the conversation and voice your opinion.. or voice what you ahve to say about me.

Don't hide behind the rep system. If you are not participating then I hardly see you having a right to criticize me on a PERSONAL level.

I take what I said back.. they participated in 1 post in this thread where they laid blame at the foot of the current administration.

Bush tried to reform Fannie/freddy in 2003.. and 17 times in 2008 alone.

For many years the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at a housing government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties. President Bush publicly called for GSE reform 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and thereforeâ?¦should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in Americaâ?¦ Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August â?? up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month â?? the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs â?? and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by â?¦ helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

*

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
*

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that â?? and Congress is making progress on this â?? is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
*

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.


Just the Facts: The Administration's Unheeded Warnings About the Systemic Risk Posed by the GSEs (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html)


So for the person who told left that personal remark against me.. I ask you who is being biased. I don't care what anyone's opinion on her eis.. I simply want people to recognize fact.

And fact is that you are also part of the people I was talking about. If you took time to even look up you would see Bush has tried for some time now to reform this.

I'll be waiting for everyone's rebuttal Slamming the current President.. Slamming McCain who has also been warning of this since, at least that I know of, 2003 as well.

Hillary Clinton I believe in 2001 even sided with President Bush on reforming this. I have to find a source to prove that though so don't quote me on it.

Look at the situation for what it is, not for what you want it to be.

This post is also for the person who left me a negative rep on a personal level. I see the fact and research fact. Your post was your own opinion that you convinced yourself to be true; yet here we see it's false.

You accused me of treating people as if they were ignorant. Ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge or information on a subject and you've shown here you lacked information/knowledge when you made your statements in your initial post in this thread. Being ignorant is not bad... it's neutral. There is nothing wrong with informing people of the truth to bring them out of ignorance.

In that regard you could accuse me what you did. I simply want to bring everyone out of ignorance and share the information that *I* am aware of.

I see no fault in that.

[allrollsin21]

"As callous as it sounds that situation was not nearly as Critical as the one we're in right now as this 700 billion effects the nation on a whole"




The above statement is ludicrous. People lost their homes and lives in Katrina. One person losing their life is as important as this whole country potentially collapsing. Thats what most people don't understand, as that one life is not more important than another. Thats why the Iraq situation in pure evil, becvause if one civilian dies than any goodness in the cause dies. Why is my "homeland security" more important than any ordinary iraqi or afghani's? Its not, ya'll just think it is.


Daihashi you speak of other condescending tones and yet all your posts these days are angry and aggressive. Chill out man. I know i have heard it from you before you dont care enough to get angry...yet you sure act it.


I watched C-span for most of yesterday and the hearings on the bailout. McCain and Obama can add nothing to this that they have not already, except their vote. They both plan on doing this, so whats the problem. The Committee is coming up with the plan. The others vote. You need not back up every desperate move your party makes. Its Ok :jointsmile:

[killerweed420]

Personally I think the American public is just being manipulated again. They have blown this whole bailout out of proprtions. If they allowed fannie mae,freddie mac and aig to collapse it wouldn't have that big of an effect on the public or the property owners. The mortgages would be sold off to some other compnay. Other insurance companies would buy up the assets of aig. Would it effect the stock market? Absolutely. But the stock market should crash and burn. Its just legalized gambling. Does nothing to help the people of America other than to promote greed. You would have thought after the great depression people would have wized up about the stock market. But greed seems to be deeply inbedded in the American phsyche now adays.

[dragonrider]

My quote:

How do you think this stuff works? Do you think all 100 senators sit together in a room working things through together? Do you think nothing gets done if one of them is not in the building? No. Party leadership from both sides canvass their membership on what is acceptable to each and what they want, and then it gets hashed out in committee. If a compromise is necessary, they contact everyone to see how they will vote. NEITHER ONE OF THESE MEN HEADS OR SITS ON A RELEVANT COMMITTEE. As long as they are in contact with their party leadership, they don't need to be there, except to vote. They certainly do not need to supend their campaigns.

Your response:

I actually found the beginning of this paragraph condescending. I'm not stupid. Fact is we pay them with our tax dollars, this is a critical situation not a vote for getting some money to throw the White Sox a party for winning the world series.

If congress goes into an extended session then yes, I think they will have to suspend their campaigns. I'm sorry but to pull an argument from the left, they are running for president and this is something a president will have to addres correct? So why is it ok for Obama not to show up or stay in Washington if an extended session is called for?

Don't talk to me as if I'm ignorant again.

Daihashi, are you out of smoke? You seem to be getting a little bit "prickly." I never called you stupid or ignorant. I was giving you crap because you keep insisting McCain needs to be in Wshington in order to do his job, but you are actually SMART ENOUGH to know that is not the case. If I thought I was just talking to an idiot who couldn't be expected to know any better, I wouldn't bother. But you do know better.


You are so eager to trash the other side you don't even see what's important.

Ha ha! I'm not eager to trash McCain! I'm just very disappointed in him for playing a political stunt with something that is important. I do see that this is important --- it's too important to be playing games with it.



Like you said, what's he going to do? He's just 1 man currently who's not President. Same as Obama. Make up your mind... is McCain important enough to sway and delay the process in which a couple of hundred people are involved or is he just another one of the group?

You can't have it both ways. Pick a stance.

Are you kidding me? I'm not trying to have it both ways. I said he doesn't need to be there, and his presence will be a distraction and a disruption. How is that having it both ways? It's like not wanting a 3-year-old help you paint the kitchen --- "How can you say he's not helpful? If he's big enough to spill paint on the floor, then he's big enough to do the trimwork. You can't have it both ways!" Ridiculous. Just because McCain is important enough to cause a disruption does not mean he is necessary to a solution.


I criticize you for being overly biased and obtuse to a situation that is critical to all Americans and a situation that every elected politician should currently being in Washington trying to address.

And I criticise you for being biased as well and obtuse to the fact that McCain does not need to call for a suspension of the campaign and a delay to the debates in order to do his proper role, which is to wait for a negotiated deal between the House and Senate party leaders and the White House, and then go vote on it. You are being obtuse to the fact that this campaign suspension is a stunt. McCain wants you to believe that he is necesary to a solution so that you will think he is more important than he really is, and you apparently DO believe that.


I've yet to see an explanation of Substance from anyone here on Obama's side.

I guess you can dismiss my explanation as not having "substance" if you want. I thought I explained it well enough. Most people seem to understand it.


All I've seen are people defending Obama but not explaining.

Actually, there is not a lot of "defending Obama" going on here, because so far there hasn't been much criticism of Obama --- nothing to defend him over. He is both doing his job as Senator and running a very effective campaign, so what is to criticise? What is to defend? The thread is mostly about criticism and defense of McCain.

As for "not explaining," no one has explained exactly what McCain intends to do while the election is on hold and he is in Wshington. The argument is he is going to "do his job" and "deal with the crisis." But what exactly? He deosn't have a seat at the negotiations, so what the hell is he going to do that he couldn't do from anywhere in the country? If word comes down that there is going to be a vote, he will have time to get back, so he does not need to be there. As far as I can tell, the Senate leadership has NOT wanted him there. I've seen leaders on both sides say these two should keep out, and the deal is almost done.


Unless people have an explanation with substance in it.. I will not be participating in this thread any longer.

Maybe you should step out for awhile --- seems like you are getting a bit worked up and emotional.

[phatsesh101]

i wish theyd let it crash so we can have a great turn about in money and power. just think small business might make a comeback wed have to produce our own goods so we wouldnt be just a consuming coutry we might actually start producing stuff again especially with everthing coming out of china with some sort of death sentance on it. and the potential of immigrant slave labor we could be back and running in ten years maybe

[Reefer Rogue]

Mccain should go along with the debates, this is the time when the American people deserve to see and hear their candidates speak about this econmoic situatuin as well as financial and other issues.

[DaBudhaStank]

After McCain himself admitted he has a very limited understanding and grasp of economics, he now believes that he and Obama will have a drastic effect on getting this thing fixed. I don't get it. What has made him so qualified all of a sudden to even have anything useful for imput? Will his candidicy make Republicans listen to him more and work with the Democrats to pass this (absoulutely absurd) proposal? If so, that's not suspending his campain, that's just using it and not acting as a senator.

Neither McCain or Obama can add even the slightest benefit to this push, except their votes. I doubt this will come down to two votes either. It'll either fail miserabley or pass with a large margin. Neither one knows dick about the economy, that's why we have so many damn reps and senators, because everyone has a better understanding of something than other people. Economics is neither of theirs. I don't personally give a fuck about the economy right now. Know why? I have no say in it and it doesnt matter what I think. It'll affect me, but not thanks to Obama or McCain. At all. I wanna know what they have to say. I wanna see how they debate and get their points across. It'll be all well and good if we get this crisis situated soon, but how much will it matter when we have a new president who doesn't know shit about what to do with the rest of the country?

McCain needs to do or say something that makes me feel like he knows what he's talking about. This aint it.

[daihashi]

Maybe you should step out for awhile --- seems like you are getting a bit worked up and emotional.

I'll be sure to get right on that. Because you impact my life so much :hippy::hippy:

[daihashi]

"As callous as it sounds that situation was not nearly as Critical as the one we're in right now as this 700 billion effects the nation on a whole"




The above statement is ludicrous. People lost their homes and lives in Katrina. One person losing their life is as important as this whole country potentially collapsing. Thats what most people don't understand, as that one life is not more important than another. Thats why the Iraq situation in pure evil, becvause if one civilian dies than any goodness in the cause dies. Why is my "homeland security" more important than any ordinary iraqi or afghani's? Its not, ya'll just think it is.

Look at it from a logistical standpoint instead of one of compassion. Logistically Katrina will not impact America fiscally nearly as much as the 700 billion dollar bail out.

Compassion has nothing to do with the logistical truth.



Daihashi you speak of other condescending tones and yet all your posts these days are angry and aggressive. Chill out man. I know i have heard it from you before you dont care enough to get angry...yet you sure act it.

Show me an angry remark other than asking peope to post something explaining Obama's refusal to do his job. No one here has to comply and no one here has answered. If this is angry to you then so be it. You must know a bunch of angry people in your life.



I watched C-span for most of yesterday and the hearings on the bailout. McCain and Obama can add nothing to this that they have not already, except their vote. They both plan on doing this, so whats the problem. The Committee is coming up with the plan. The others vote. You need not back up every desperate move your party makes. Its Ok :jointsmile:

This post was about McCain. It was everyone that came in here to attack a party. I hardly saw anyone standing up for the opposition. Am I not allowed to be one of the few people who will voice the other side?

Heaven forbid I say something that contrasts with what everyone else here is siding with in order to try to give insight from the other side.

But I guess this is to be expected; after all this is a cannabis forum and as such it's anticipated that majority of all posters here would be liberal. Cannabis and liberalism tend to go hand in hand.

Sorry that you don't like me showing you a perspective from the other side. How you take my posts is not my problem. It's perception; just the same way I perceive many of other users posts on this forum. My problem if I interpret wrong.. not yours and vice versa.

[daihashi]

Mccain should go along with the debates, this is the time when the American people deserve to see and hear their candidates speak about this econmoic situatuin as well as financial and other issues.

The debates won't even allow candidates like Bob Barr, or Ralph nader or any other candidates that wish to participate and show the American people what they are about. Do you honestly believe that the debates will be an accurate depiction of what these two have to offer?

Granted something is better than nothing but historically the debates have never been fair in who they allow to participate. In that regard I would like to see the debates but honestly could care less as the commission that heads over the debates seem to have an agenda of their own if they won't allow anyone except major party candidates in.

Maybe people would vote for a third party candidate if they got to debate, but they won't and we will never get to see these people slug it out with our supposed top two best choices.. McCain and Obama; neither of which is the best decision for the country IMO. I'd be interested in hearing from the others but we never will. In 2000 they fought tooth and nail to deny Ralph Nader into the debates. They would not even allow Nader to view the debates.

Something is up there.

[dragonrider]

Unless people have an explanation with substance in it.. I will not be participating in this thread any longer.


Maybe you should step out for awhile --- seems like you are getting a bit worked up and emotional.


I'll be sure to get right on that. Because you impact my life so much :hippy::hippy:

Dude! Welcome back! I am glad you found "substance" here!


Show me an angry remark other than asking peope to post something explaining Obama's refusal to do his job. No one here has to comply and no one here has answered.

Obama is doing a GREAT job right now. He went to Washington for the big White House confab on the crisis. He had a CNN interview directly following the meeting to explain what he has been doing regarding this crisis and to describe his take on the meeting. He's staying in touch with Paulson every day no matter where he is. He is in constant contact with his party leadership involved in the negotiations no matter where he is. He will be ready for any vote when the time comes and will come back from wherever he is. He's doing his best to keep presidential politics OUT of these delicate negotiations. And at the same time that he is doing all of this work relating to the financial crisis, he has managed to do all of this while not suspending his campaign! He can do all this at the same time! McCain must be amazed at how Obama can do both at once!

Obama is also doing his job of getting ready for the debates tomorrow! He will be there and be ready to go!

What has McCain been doing? You say no one has answered your question about what Obama is doing, and I have done so for you. But you have not answered my question to you about what McCain is doing. You said he has gone back to "do his job." But what exactly? He's suspended his campaign, so I hope he is making good use of his time.

[flyingimam]

Maybe people would vote for a third party candidate if they got to debate, but they won't and we will never get to see these people slug it out with our supposed top two best choices.. McCain and Obama; neither of which is the best decision for the country IMO. I'd be interested in hearing from the others but we never will. In 2000 they fought tooth and nail to deny Ralph Nader into the debates. They would not even allow Nader to view the debates.

Something is up there.

100% agree. People will wake up, and the 2 major parties will lose a good portion of their fan base, these are better called "our system" our previous administrations and legislature have mostly been these 2 parties only!

same strategy was applied to Ron Paul eliminating him from earlier "republican only" debates.

something is certainly up, can't deny that!

[GoddessHerb]

Holy shit I just seen it on FOX news!

Here's the news reel: McCain Says He'll Suspend Campaign to Deal With Financial Crisis; Calls on Obama to Do Same; Wants Debate Postponed

I'll post more when it comes.

Hmmmm I think this sounds like setting up a great way for bush to declare an "emergency" and instill martial law and suspend the election all together. All hail authoritarianism! Here it comes get ready to either fall in line and follow or be destroyed!

Blessed be~

[rebgirl420]

Hmmmm I think this sounds like setting up a great way for bush to declare an "emergency" and instill martial law and suspend the election all together. All hail authoritarianism! Here it comes get ready to either fall in line and follow or be destroyed!

Blessed be~

That is ridiculous.

[flyingimam]

McCain has probably been regretting choosing Palin for VP.

I bet he is regretting that @ heart but won't want to look like a major flip flopper

and add

He will most likely break under pressure and participate in 2moro's debate, which will make another point to regret.

he just overreacted on this instance imo. it was uncalled for in reality. now I'm not gonna judge his motives anymore until i hear something from him again and get some more info on his impact in this process. then it will be clear what made him take this route of suspending campaigns urging 2 other totally independent entities to follow suit.

[flyingimam]

That is ridiculous.

I would say its a bit too extreme. But all it takes for such a move to actually take place is a delay in passing this proposal and some consecutive and very bad news from different parts of economy in the coming days.

I read the headline regarding mccain in my Environmental science class's break while people were still hanging around the class.

and I just automatically said "Why don't we just postpone the election and let the officials take care of this thing... cuz it seems everything is leaning that way"

but i know my brain leans a tad bit 2wards the conspiracy side as well... so it was out of my mouth as a half-joke which brought laughs to the class;)

[Psycho4Bud]

Dude! Welcome back! I am glad you found "substance" here!

As I recall you were stating the same thing about a week ago. If you two want to debate the issue at hand, great....if you want to have a lil' piss fest, do it somewhere else!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[dragonrider]

McCain has probably been regretting choosing Palin for VP.


I bet he is regretting that @ heart but won't want to look like a major flip flopper

and add

He will most likely break under pressure and participate in 2moro's debate, which will make another point to regret.

he just overreacted on this instance imo. it was uncalled for in reality. now I'm not gonna judge his motives anymore until i hear something from him again and get some more info on his impact in this process. then it will be clear what made him take this route of suspending campaigns urging 2 other totally independent entities to follow suit.

I think these two decisions illustrate McCain's decision-making process, which does not encourage me.

The Palin decision was pure politics and did not reflect sound policy, or even policy that McCain himself believes in. Palin and McCain are very different in terms of policy, and I can't believe he picked her based on policy. It was either pure gut instinct, which I do not trust as a sound decision-making process. Or it was pure calculated politics, and not "Country First" as he would have us believe. I don't think she was a good pick for the country, but so far she has worked for him politically.

And this idea of suspending the campaigns so he can work on the financial crisis is another poor decision. It is either political (which has not worked out well) or some crazy instinctual decision. It has not worked out well either way. Obviously he does not need to devote 100% of his energy to this crisis, and the debates could go on. It's either a failed ploy, or he is making crazy decisions that he really believes in. I'm not comfortable either way. I don't want a president who makes erratic decisions like this. He seems nuts to me.

I will bet almost anything that McCain will be at the debate tomorrow. This decision is going to be added to his list of failed gambles and erratic gut decisions gone wrong.

[dragonrider]

As I recall you were stating the same thing about a week ago. If you two want to debate the issue at hand, great....if you want to have a lil' piss fest, do it somewhere else!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

Daihashi and I are very "spirited" debaters. I hope everyone else finds it as entertaining as I do. Speaking for myself, even though I hate it here sometimes and threaten to leave, I love it too, and I can't stay away!

[GoddessHerb]

That is ridiculous.

Why do you think so? I'm just curious. Care to elaborate? Do you not think it's even possible? Or does it scare you too much to think that it could actually happen.

My statement is not ridiculous, it's very plausible. It was however said in a semi-facetious tongue in cheek tone which cannot be expressed via the web. Much truth is often said in jest. It is not absurd in any terms but it's easy enough to write it off as such if the idea makes you uncomfortable. The system can COLLAPSE at any moment and that's a scary idea to someone who finds comfort in it.

Blessed be~

[RobPA]

Why do you think so? I'm just curious. Care to elaborate? Do you not think it's even possible? Or does it scare you too much to think that it could actually happen.

My statement is not ridiculous, it's very plausible. It was however said in a semi-facetious tongue in cheek tone which cannot be expressed via the web. Much truth is often said in jest. It is not absurd in any terms but it's easy enough to write it off as such if the idea makes you uncomfortable. The system can COLLAPSE at any moment and that's a scary idea to someone who finds comfort in it.

Blessed be~

:wtf:
Its ridiculous because its scare tactics without substance.

[daihashi]

Daihashi and I are very "spirited" debaters. I hope everyone else finds it as entertaining as I do. Speaking for myself, even though I hate it here sometimes and threaten to leave, I love it too, and I can't stay away!

I do it all in good nature, but judging from negative feedback from people who refuse to read my posts for just words instead of applying their own emotions to it I doubt others see it that way.

The most recently basically called me stupid and implied I was a Bush lover, which if anyone would comb over my threads I am anything but the sort. I simply pointed out some fact in this thread that can't be denied.

Contrary to what people might think.. I don't believe Obama is the root of all evil as some others might think.. I simply think he's not the best direction for this country.

However my posts in this thread were neither really in support of McCain even if they appeared to be, or to Bash Obama. In all honesty it was to point out that even though this was a political move by McCain there is some very real truth in it. Far too often we let politicians not do their job.

As I said earlier this was one time I was glad to see politics being played because I felt it might actually get people to do their job; especially with there being a conflict with the House. In all honesty the presidential candidates may help to bring a compromise to the situation. With that said I do feel it's important for both Obama and McCain to do their jobs as senators FIRST, and then candidates second.. but never as a president or implied president. We have a sitting president and honestly whether you like him or not you have to respect that the Position of President is still filled until the beginning of 2009.

So everyone if you want to bash me go for it. As some people on here who know me on a more personal level; because of my own life philosophy, it really doesn't impact me as much as you would like to believe.

This message was more of a clarification of what the message I was trying to bring across. I have admittingly been edgey, but I don't feel I've been an ass or condescending, due to personal ailments that I won't get into as this is my own business and I do not want to use this as an excuse... So if people are offended I apologize for that but not for the contents/substance of what I said.

If you don't like me.. eh, that's your problem (not directed at you dragonrider. I know that you and I would probably actually be friends in real life.. politics aside that is. :hippy:)

[flyingimam]

Reports indicate McCain has eventually decided to participate in the debates, according to live leak on CNN. (@ 10:27 AM CST)

cannot provide any links, it was said in the headlines on live video just after Reid's press conference.

[flyingimam]

there ya go

McCain will show up for debate, campaign says - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi/index.html)

OXFORD, Mississippi (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain will attend the first presidential debate as planned Friday night, his campaign announced.

McCain said earlier this week he would not attend the debate if an agreement had not been reached on a $700 billion bailout plan for Wall Street.

The outcome was up in the air Friday as lawmakers scrambled to agree on a plan.

But by midday, McCain's campaign said the Republican presidential nominee believed enough progress had been made for him to travel to Mississippi to participate in the debate, set for 9 p.m. ET at the University of Mississippi campus.

"He is optimistic that there has been significant progress toward a bipartisan agreement now that there is a framework for all parties to be represented in negotiations, including Rep. [Roy] Blunt as a designated negotiator for House Republicans," the campaign said in a statement.

"The McCain campaign is resuming all activities and the senator will travel to the debate this afternoon."

Both presidential candidates -- McCain and Democratic Sen. Barack Obama -- returned to Washington Thursday to participate in talks over the bailout package.

The debate is expected to focus on foreign policy and national security, but the economic crisis is likely to be a dominant issue as well.

Debate planners got a big surprise when McCain called for postponing it. The university has invested millions of dollars preparing for it.

Obama's campaign had argued over the past couple of days that both attending the presidential debate and working on the bailout plan could be accomplished and the event should go on.
advertisement

"I think we can do both of these things at the same time. The next president is going to face multiple crises on the same day," Robert Gibbs, Obama's top adviser, had said on CNN's "American Morning."

"We've got a presidential debate scheduled. We've got a stage. We'll have an audience. My guess is we'll have a moderator and at least one of the presidential candidates," Gibbs said.
-----------------
HAAA! I just won 50 bucks over this... wagers are the way to go on politics... the only way i can actually benefit from them!!!:D:thumbsup:

goes towards my investment for the grow;)

[dragonrider]

If you don't like me.. eh, that's your problem (not directed at you dragonrider. I know that you and I would probably actually be friends in real life.. politics aside that is. :hippy:)

You're a good guy Daihashi, even if we disagree on almost everything political! What would be the fun if everyone agreed on everything anyway? I like having the other opinions around, even if the other opinions actually piss me off a bit!

I'm sorry to hear that someone gave you negative rep over your point of view --- that's not really cool. I don't think I've ever given anyone negative rep except once a long time ago in a thread where some of the members got extremely nasty, insulting, hateful and personal. The whole thread got taken down, and that person got banned. Since then I've never bothered with negative rep. The mods do a good job of cleaning that kind of stuff up, so I don't worry about it. I'll respond in the thread if I feel I have to. Or if the post is a gross violation of rules, such as racism or outright name calling or personal insults, I'll report it and let a mod decide what to do if anything --- but I can't even remember the last time I did that.

This is a politics forum, so it is a place for widely varying opinions and sometimes strong disagreement. But the opinions can be argued on their merits (with a little trash talk on the side, because there is an election to win after all!)

[Psycho4Bud]

You're a good guy Daihashi, even if we disagree on almost everything political! What would be the fun if everyone agreed on everything anyway? I like having the other opinions around, even if the other opinions actually piss me off a bit!

I'm sorry to hear that someone gave you negative rep over your point of view --- that's not really cool. I don't think I've ever given anyone negative rep except once a long time ago in a thread where some of the members got extremely nasty, insulting, hateful and personal. The whole thread got taken down, and that person got banned. Since then I've never bothered with negative rep. The mods do a good job of cleaning that kind of stuff up, so I don't worry about it. I'll respond in the thread if I feel I have to. Or if the post is a gross violation of rules, such as racism or outright name calling or personal insults, I'll report it and let a mod decide what to do if anything --- but I can't even remember the last time I did that.

This is a politics forum, so it is a place for widely varying opinions and sometimes strong disagreement. But the opinions can be argued on their merits (with a little trash talk on the side, because there is an election to win after all!)

VERY glad this one is squared away and I argree with ya 100%; there is NO need for negative rep based on a post or opinion in this forum. EVERYBODY has the right to his/her opinion and it should be respected. I may not agree with a few in here but hey, if we always agreed that wouldn't hold much water for an exchange of thoughts.

My MAJOR concern as that we didn't have another situation like what happened in here a week ago. Positive rep for both of ya!!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Psycho4Bud]

By the way, it was just on the news that McCain is on his way to the debate!!! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[dragonrider]

VERY glad this one is squared away and I argree with ya 100%; there is NO need for negative rep based on a post or opinion in this forum. EVERYBODY has the right to his/her opinion and it should be respected. I may not agree with a few in here but hey, if we always agreed that wouldn't hold much water for an exchange of thoughts.

My MAJOR concern as that we didn't have another situation like what happened in here a week ago. Positive rep for both of ya!!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

Excellent!

Now, I can still poke him if he gets irritable, right? Sometimes I like to poke people when they get irritable...

[Psycho4Bud]

Indeed.

*puts on big foam number #1 finger and a foam obama smiling mask*

That's the difference between some in here and myself; I'd just as soon put on a foam shoe to kick them BOTH in the ass!:mad:

Have a good one!:s4:

[dragonrider]

By the way, it was just on the news that McCain is on his way to the debate!!! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

Speaking of games, I was going to do a smoking game with a hit each time McCain says "My Friends..," but I actually want to see the end.

[dragonrider]

Glad to see you guys hug and makeup, but let's keep this about McCain and how this is going to effect his campaign. Looks like it didn't work out the way he had hoped. :stoned:

Obama: Over 9,000
McCain: ... who's counting?

Yes, it was a total disaster (the McCain theatrics, not the hug and make up thing).

I don't think this worked for him at all. Most people thought it was stupid to suggest skipping the debates. It pissed off a lot of people in Mississippi who had spent millions of dollars and volunteer hours putting the debate together. And mostly it does not look like he helped to get a bailout deal together in Washington --- in fact, mostly it seems like he blew up a deal that was ready to go. He seems erratic.

[allrollsin21]

The campaigners arriving in washington for the PHOTO-OP seemed to derail the progress being made. From my understanding it became a game of who got credit and showmanship. The day before they arrived all that was reported said they "almost" have agreed on a plan. Then as soon as McCain's Photo-Op ended everyone came pouring out of the meeting saying, 'NO PLAN'.

How exactly did this benefit our country and not just attempt to benefit McCain in the eyes of the ignorant and uneducated? Oh yeah, a real important looking meeting happened:thumbsup:

[dragonrider]

I'm glad the debate will go on, but part of me was looking forward to the laugh-out-loud hillarious prospect of McCain not showing and Ole Miss hosting a 5-million-dollar Obama town-hall meeting!

That would have been the end for McCain. By showing up, he can now delay the end for approximately 2 hours!

[flyingimam]

Speaking of games, I was going to do a smoking game with a hit each time McCain says "My Friends..," but I actually want to see the end.

:S2: i donno why but this is just funny... i bet u will be baked as fu*k by the time he is done speaking :D:D

[dragonrider]

The campaigners arriving in washington for the PHOTO-OP seemed to derail the progress being made. From my understanding it became a game of who got credit and showmanship. The day before they arrived all that was reported said they "almost" have agreed on a plan. Then as soon as McCain's Photo-Op ended everyone came pouring out of the meeting saying, 'NO PLAN'.

How exactly did this benefit our country and not just attempt to benefit McCain in the eyes of the ignorant and uneducated? Oh yeah, a real important looking meeting happened:thumbsup:

It was even worse than that. Several hours before the White House meeting, Senate leaders fromm BOTH SIDES held a joint news conference and said they had an agreement, and they didn't even need the White House meeting. McCain arrived and immediately he went to speak with the House Republicans --- House, not the Senate where he is a member. When the White House meeting happened, everyone was blindsided by disagreement and new demands form these same House Republicans. I am of the opinion that he intentionally blew this thing up.

[dragonrider]

:S2: i donno why but this is just funny... i bet u will be baked as fu*k by the time he is done speaking :D:D

Ha ha! I'm not really gonna do it --- I wouldn't even make it through the opening remarks!

[GoddessHerb]

:wtf:
Its ridiculous because its scare tactics without substance.

Again I ask why is it ridiculous? What substance is it lacking? Do I need to explain how it could happen? Or prove that it's even a possibility? What substance can I offer that you would not dismiss as ridiculous as well? My guess is there is nothing I could post that would ever be substantial enough to validate my view in your eyes.

This is scary but it is no tactic. I'm not trying to scare anyone to do what I want or say to do. That's the job of someone in power, just watch your TV to find those people. ;) I have no reason to scare people, it's just these really are very scary times. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with that. It's dismissive statements such as yours that truly lack substance. It must be freeing to be able to dismiss someone else's viewpoint without consideration simply because it makes you uncomfortable.

Blessed be~

[dragonrider]

Again I ask why is it ridiculous? What substance is it lacking? Do I need to explain how it could happen? Or prove that it's even a possibility? What substance can I offer that you would not dismiss as ridiculous as well? My guess is there is nothing I could post that would ever be substantial enough to validate my view in your eyes.

This is scary but it is no tactic. I'm not trying to scare anyone to do what I want or say to do. That's the job of someone in power, just watch your TV to find those people. ;) I have no reason to scare people, it's just these really are very scary times. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with that. It's dismissive statements such as yours that truly lack substance. It must be freeing to be able to dismiss someone else's viewpoint without consideration simply because it makes you uncomfortable.

Blessed be~

Earlier you mentioned that your original post had a facetious tone, but you want your idea to be considered seriously. Maybe people were reacting to the tone, so let's get past that.

Taking your idea seriously, do you really think that Bush might try to precipitate a real crisis of this scale, or manufacture a fake crisis of this size, in order to really declare martial law and cancel elections? I don't have any respect for Bush, and I think he has caused some major disasters, but I don't really think this is about seizing power under martial law. It seems far-fetched to me. He seems like more of a misguided idiot than a true dictator. My sense is that he cannot wait to be done with his presidency, and there is no way he would try to extend it a single day.

[flyingimam]

Earlier you mentioned that your original post had a facetious tone, but you want your idea to be considered seriously. Maybe people were reacting to the tone, so let's get past that.

Taking your idea seriously, do you really think that Bush might try to precipitate a real crisis of this scale, or manufacture a fake crisis of this size, in order to really declare martial law and cancel elections? I don't have any respect for Bush, and I think he has caused some major disasters, but I don't really think this is about seizing power under martial law. It seems far-fetched to me. He seems like more of a misguided idiot than a true dictator. My sense is that he cannot wait to be done with his presidency, and there is no way he would try to extend it a single day.

i totally agree with what u say. except that, Cheney can very well do whats been said. he is no idiot and he is sort of as powerful or maybe even more powerful than Bush himself. he is an extremist, i have no doubt, we got muslim extremists and we have american extremists, he is the latter!
yes i know in technical terms VP is not = to prez, but in practice there are some ways to manipulate with that equation.

again that has an almost non-existent chance of happening given our current situation.

However I bring your attention to this: In my opinion no government is sacred, they all have dirty secrets and it is also no secret that they have used lies and made-up or artificial crises in the past to achieve certain goals beyond public's understanding, do u agree? 1 recent example: Iraq war, it started with all the wrong reasons and lies that are now no secret to any1.

Our very own government has had embarrassments like Iran Contra affair and has also participated in some covert ops and coups in other countries. some of these embarassments have had direct adverse effects on our very own citizens! CIA's role in Crack cocaine epidemic which has always been "denied" by the govt but widely believed to be a real story and our current war on drugs are just obvious examples of such actions

hang on right there for a sec

There has been word of war with Iran and a TON of pressure from Israel, our MOST important ally for this to happen. Depending on the circumstances to come in near future and depending on issues that are out of our control and given the talk earlier about how governments can be deceptive to their own citizens, I don't RULE OUT the chance of such a conflict in the upcoming months until the next prez swears in.

This is as much possible as our officials have always maintained military option is on the table.

not that it necessarily relates to current political situation, but it has always been like this and we have maintained we may very well attack Iran if needed.

im sure u get the idea

practically speaking there is a very tiny lil bitty (read NO) chance for a 3rd conflict to drag us down there in mid-east now

However, there are many factors involved (including which candidate is our next prez & many other factors) that can give this thing an overnight boost in probability of happening.

Never rule out any probability, u may well get caught surprised!!

and most of these scenarios are at best possible hypotheticals right now, with some potential to always happen...

another example: Pakistan got nukes, they have volatile relationship with India (also a nuke power) and they got islamic fanatics and jihadists in hundreds of numbers in their country...

their nukes could very well be jeopardized since there are not guaranteed oversights as we have in america... i know there is tight security for those stuff, but still all u need is a couple of inside men for outside idiots to get their hands on one of those things.

u know, these are just "feasible ideas" not that they will happen or are potentially gonna happen. but just based on this explanation, I personally do not rule out anything of the sort!

[daihashi]

VERY glad this one is squared away and I argree with ya 100%; there is NO need for negative rep based on a post or opinion in this forum. EVERYBODY has the right to his/her opinion and it should be respected. I may not agree with a few in here but hey, if we always agreed that wouldn't hold much water for an exchange of thoughts.

My MAJOR concern as that we didn't have another situation like what happened in here a week ago. Positive rep for both of ya!!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

I think contrary to dragonriders and my own opinion drastically differing; we both understand that this is the politics forum and doesn't necessarily reflect what the other person is really like.

Besides, I like keeping people around me that don't agree with me or are not just "yes" men.

Understanding comes through disagreement or contrasting views.

[dragonrider]

Anyone else think McCain will give up the election?

No, I don't think so. If there is anything to learn from McCain's personal history, it is that he fights against all odds. He might even actually like lost causes. I don't think he would give up, no matter how bad it gets for him.

Also, there is no reason to think he is even out of the running yet. He's slipping, but the margin is still close. And this last couple of weeks shows how much things can change in a very short period of time.

He's likely to try to throw some crazy-ass curveballs in the next few weeks, but dropping out is not likely to be one of them.

[dragonrider]

i totally agree with what u say. except that, Cheney can very well do whats been said. he is no idiot and he is sort of as powerful or maybe even more powerful than Bush himself. he is an extremist, i have no doubt, we got muslim extremists and we have american extremists, he is the latter!


Well, yeah. Cheney is a different deal altogether, and if there was such a conspiracy, he would definitley be in charge of it. But my feeling is that if Cheney engineered a coup to keep Bush in office, Bush would actually murder Cheney. Bush might end up being the hero and restoring the Republic!

Bush is done, and he wants to go back to the ranch, and no one, not Cheney, not no one, is gonna stop him.

[Psycho4Bud]

Speaking of games, I was going to do a smoking game with a hit each time McCain says "My Friends..," but I actually want to see the end.

Still undecided whether I'll be watching or taping it but this lil' game sounds like fun....I just may have to give it a try.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[dragonrider]

I'll be as surprised as a homeless pedophile waking up in a nursery if McCain wins this election. :stoned:

Oh, I don't think he'll win either --- I just don't think there is any chance of him dropping out. And I think it would be a big mistake for anyone on Obama's side to get complacent and consider it totally in the bag. Barring any serious mishaps though, I think Obama will win.

[cygnustaxt]

Speaking of games, I was going to do a smoking game with a hit each time McCain says "My Friends..," but I actually want to see the end.

debates are starting as i type this, i will be playing this game lol.

[daihashi]

The debates have ended, with Obama on top it would seem. :stoned:

I thought both sides actually performed well. Although I did see Obama contradict himself several times and I saw McCain utilize those situations.

All in all I thought both sides did well. I did find it odd that Obama would agree with McCain on a number of things and then say he disagrees.

Either way I was entertained through the entire 90 minutes :thumbsup:

[daihashi]

Give some examples of the times he contradicted himself and McCain 'utilized' the situation.

Why is it odd that they would agree on some ground? Two people can't agree and disagree?

I've chosen to refrain from actual in depth political discussion for personal reasons. If you want to know more you can check my grow log.

If I participate in here it will be rare for a while and on a more light hearted note.

Enjoy my silence :hippy:

[rebgirl420]

I enjoyed the debate. I feel both sides had some good points and I enjoyed the fact that McCain called out Obama on a few situations. But Obama was very articulate and the whole 90 minutes was enjoyable.

Oh and I played the Obama game. That when you take a hit every time you here the word "change". I was blasted.