NUTES/Feeding Issues W/ CHURCH Need Help!!!!

[GreenLeaf420]

I'm currently growing Church along w/ some other strains. I have no issues w/ the other plants but the CHURCH is a headache as far as the NUTES are concerned.. I'm using the GH 3 Part System.. I have gone over 900 2 times and caught NUTE burn both times.

I'm using the GH 3 part w/ Flora Nector and Voodo Juice... I have not had any issues when staying @ 900 I'm going 50mL Micro 50ML Bloom 20-30 ML Grow (Still) and adding some Flora Nectar and Voodo Juice when I feel up to It...

The CHURCH is very very temperamental:wtf: I HATE THE SHIT It is Driving me nuts on NUTES... The others are so happy happy W/ what ever I hit them W/:D:D:D I really am wondering If I should ripp out two beds of CHURCH:( to make more room for the big Momma's... I just can not do it but the church is not developing no were near as well as the others...

The cuttings came off of huge W/F's that were up to 1600ppm's. I had issues w/ them in the beginning but then they started to take to it after a week or so.. Now with them in soil I can not Jack up the NUTES @ all:mad:... I'm not looking to MAXX MAXX UP w/ the Nutes but 900 is low. I'm 18 days into flower and all are out performing the church:(development wise and I can not reach a feeding schedule were I'm happy any help will be greatly appreciated....

Thanks in Advanced GL420:jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile:

OHH YEAH conditions 85 lights on w/ CO2 @ 1200.. Lights out 79 humidity 40-53% BUT USUALLY under 50%. All Sunshine#4 soil PH of soil is 6.5 6.3. Tap water here is very very soft adding Cal-Mag +.. I know I'm forgetting something:rastasmoke: If so please just ask.. I was dropping the PH in the H2o to 6.3 but for now leaving it @ 6.8-6.9

Thanks again GL1

[SunnyD]

That sounds pretty ridiculous that your Church is being so difficult...

Have you tried just giving them nothing but Ph'd water for a while? Then trying to re-instate the nutes???

Maybe there's some potential clogging that is messing things up...

That's extremely strange seeing as how their mum was up to 1600ppm...

Sorry, I don't think I'm of much help...no clue

[Weedhound]

I think your issue may have been the low ph......is one of those ph numbers you're posting there the actual ph runoff? If so...which one?

How long has the plant been in the same soil and/or pot? I've discovered the joys of transplanting into fresh soil which seems to solve so many problems for my soil plants that it almost brings a tear of joy to my eye.......

Whats the ppm of of your runoff as well?

[GreenLeaf420]

WH they have been in 5-6" beds for only 28 days roots are not bound.... I do not think that is an issue and if it is I can not Correct it.. the rest were transplanted a week prior to flower... The Ph's that I posted were all current feeding PH'd water... Why what #'s are in question... This is really bthering me.. Sunny yes I have tried lots of washes... Also adding Flora Nova to the flushes for 3+ days.... I can't get this plant to eat... SNS is having the same issues w/ her but I have a few more then him:D.... I don't feel happy about it the smile was a Joke

Thanks Again GL1

[stinkyattic]

If you are feeding at 6.3-6.5, and in a soil or soilless mix, there,s a very high likelyhood that your runoff is going to be even lower... You should be feeding at the high end of the soil range in a peat based soil, and the high end of the soilless range in a peat based soilless.
Also, beds may not allow the amount of oxygen into the root zone that a fast growing annual needs, ESPECIALLY running supplemental CO2 in the room.
You and Sn are both having a similar issue? Stands to reason; he was over-watering and the mulch paper on his pots is preventing air reaching the root zone. Aerate your soil; if that means poking holes in it, or drilling large holes in the sides of the beds, whatever- you need to get some oxygen in there!!!

[GreenLeaf420]

Thanks Stink I will put the holes in the Beds. I never had any intentions of doing that but if you say so Ill give it a try... Here is the Kicker though I have others in 5 Gallon pots that have good Aeration going to the roots and just the CHURCH is having the issues with the NUTES... All the other girls are taking up the NUTES just fine...

I try to cultivate the soil everyday to see if there will be any difference. Check this out were I can reach and turn the soil the plants are reacting negative but were I can not reach they are doing better.... It's just in my Case WTF I can not catch a break. :D

I will try to drill some nice 1/2" holes along side the beds to see if that will correct the issue @ hand...

Thanks A lot GL1

[stinkyattic]

Wait, hang on- how do you cultivate the soil? How deeply?

[GreenLeaf420]

I just go across w/ My hands lightly just wiping it back and forth making sure not to hit the Roots @ All turning the top of the soil....

WHY WHY???? YOU ARE GETTING ME NERVOUS!!!!:D GL1

[stinkyattic]

I would avoid that actually. The way you describe is probably compacting the soil. Indoors, cultivating your pots isn't necessary, and I personally would just poke holes with a chopstick and besides that, let them be.

I'm still wracking my [small] brain to think of other reasons. I'm sure this is a combination of multiple factors here... hmmmmm....

Where the heck is rhizome when ya need him? This is one of those stumpers fo'sho!

[GreenLeaf420]

I sent him a MSG I hope he can stop in my mind is boggled and I can not figure it out... Tried many flushes lowering PH raising PH Cal-Mag+ ect ect ect.... I just can not put my finger on it!!!

GL1

[Weedhound]

I think he needs drainage.....read: better flow through the roots.
And to check ph of runoff although i'm not sure he can.

[rhizome]

Wondering about the possibility of an anaerobic zone @ the bottom of the bins- but that'd affect anything else that you may have in bins, as well. Is there any ammonia smell to the soil at the bottom of the bins?

When you say that the moms were up to 1600 ppm, were you using the same nutrient regimen? I ask because I've pushed stuff up to like 2k on Pure Blend, but the same cultivar was nuked by Sensi A/B @ 800.

Also, is there any possibility that evaporative concentration has caused the EC of your media to be considerabley higher than the EC of your feed? It'd be interesting to take a media sample after watering, press it thru a coffee filter to get the fluid component, and check pH/EC.

I have the feeling this is going to be a drainage issue complicated by a light feeding strain/individual. I've never grown Church, so I know nothing about it's feed profile.

[Weedhound]

All I can tell you about the feed profile on mine was it was pretty piggy......I'm sure we had ours in the range of 1300-1400 (in one of those crappy w/f buckets.....) so I'd doubt 900 is "over the line" for church but I'm no soil expert either.

[GreenLeaf420]

Wondering about the possibility of an anaerobic zone @ the bottom of the bins- but that'd affect anything else that you may have in bins, as well. Is there any ammonia smell to the soil at the bottom of the bins?

When you say that the moms were up to 1600 ppm, were you using the same nutrient regimen? I ask because I've pushed stuff up to like 2k on Pure Blend, but the same cultivar was nuked by Sensi A/B @ 800.

Also, is there any possibility that evaporative concentration has caused the EC of your media to be considerabley higher than the EC of your feed? It'd be interesting to take a media sample after watering, press it thru a coffee filter to get the fluid component, and check pH/EC.

I have the feeling this is going to be a drainage issue complicated by a light feeding strain/individual. I've never grown Church, so I know nothing about it's feed profile.

Thanks Riz I'm going to try that coffee filter trick and I hope we can get some answers... I will check the smell of the Soil and get back to everone soon Latest will be in the AM

Thanks to all:

You are all Great to Have Around Sincerely GL420:jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile:

Were Else can you get 10+ Educated growers IDEAS? Kindly with Friendly Advice:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: You are all good people

[GreenLeaf420]

Here are the way the leaves look on the ones that are not doing well and others in the beds are Green as can be... To much Variation..

[SnSstealth]

My church has barely been fed ANY nutes, and its getting light in color, but the entire plant is getting light uniformly...I dont get it either man...
whiskeytango

[stinkyattic]

Yeep! Kinda looks like you HAD a Zinc def if you were seeing that symptom when the leaves were young. Looks from here as if there was a point in time, about a week long, where all the new growth was affected by the problem, but then you see greener growth... Is it getting worse? Are the new leaves setill showing it? The pics seem to show that your new growth is not affected, which indicates the problem no longer exists. It's usually caused by high pH actually- your low pH may have solved it, if new growth looks okay.
Get on those bitches with a micronutrient supplement foliar feed - GH micro- mixed a bit weak, and add one DROP of dish or hand soap to the spray bottle.
Keep us posted, and still try to improve your drainage!

[GreenLeaf420]

Here are some better Shots!!! The last is just a Shot of the Big Girls!!!

SNS yours looks like This?

[stinkyattic]

Just fyi... iron and zinc lockouts often go hand-in-hand. They are locked out by the same conditions.

[GreenLeaf420]

Thank You Stink:thumbsup: I appreciate the Help!!!

[xcrispi]

Hey G/L ,
The 3 times I've grown it myself they ended up neon yellow for some reason ? The pic. I posted late in flower of The Church - the yellowing wasn't from N def. in late flower , they were like that 1 mo. before the light cycle change ? I don't think there was any lock outs - they finished just fine anyways . I might learn something from this thread , now that all 10 of mine are gone . :(

Mine didn't look like your leaf pics though when the yellowing took place . The whole leaf turned yellow , the veins / lines were not green like yours ?
Peace Bro.
Crispi :stoned:

[rhizome]

Yep, that's a metal chlorosis.

If yer soil's really in the pH 6-7 range, that's kinda weird- usually see that over 7 ( Fe, Cu, Zn) or way low ( Mg).

A run -off pH would be really helpful. I'm starting to think there's a data problem.


Easy to work around though- foliar w/ the Floramicro.

[stinkyattic]

data problem is what I'm thinking too- runoff #s PLUS a detailed description of where ya got them, and 'a doctor with a flashlight found them' doesn't count! :D

[Weedhound]

Come on you guys.....the guy is growing in beds with no drainage right?

[stinkyattic]

Some, from what I gather, but most likely inadequate.

[Weedhound]

I remember the church being extra fussy in veg....but in flower it was a beast and a half with no issues whatsoever so I don't recall it being picky in any way (in bloom) that I remember.

I'm dying to see what the runoff ph is. Since beginning to grow in soil I've really been trying to study and learn some of this soil stuff. So far runoff ph has been the most interesting to me......despite using the same soil for all my plants I get a pretty big drift in runoff ph between plants and even between one pot and another when conditions remain the same between them.....which REALLY surprised me because you just dont get that kind of jumping around with ph in hydro.

[stinkyattic]

You get pH jumps in hydro when you have insufficient res size compared to the biomass of the plants. I think that is an issue in this case as well. The beds are quite shallow, and were you to add up the total heights of all individuals, and then calculate the volume of the bed they inhabit, you'd find a reason why their feets are unhappy.

[Weedhound]

You get pH jumps in hydro when you have insufficient res size compared to the biomass of the plants. I think that is an issue in this case as well. The beds are quite shallow, and were you to add up the total heights of all individuals, and then calculate the volume of the bed they inhabit, you'd find a reason why their feets are unhappy.

Stinky you really ARE charismatic even in text. :thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

Holy crap, I can't believe you remember that! Shit, the guy who said that hasn't stopped by in like, AGES. 2600Hertz - some number anyway- lol

[GreenLeaf420]

My church has barely been fed ANY nutes, and its getting light in color, but the entire plant is getting light uniformly...I dont get it either man...
whiskeytango


Wait their is a pattern here... There are variations in the beds sect are happy and and others discolored but all standing tall looking happy... I see the ones in the pails showing the same traits but not looking @'s happy and they are in 5 G's Pails (While feed they act up more).. The feeding has stayed the same all GH... The numbers were off on feeding .3-.4 because I did not calibrate the pen in a while.. So figure feeding was very very low 5.9-6.3... The PH pen I have for the soil is not a cheap HD and does not need calibration;). So The soil PH is reading low 6.3-6.5. Yet w/ NUTES they all (CHURCH) act the same :( Shitty Pails too... Yet all the others are taking it up w/ no issues happy standing tall and not discoulered... They all look happy the church gets a burn anything over 900ppm's.. I will get the PH runoff #'s for you tomorrow. Beleive me I've been going very easy trying to fix the issue w/o making more problems.. I fucked up on the feed PH early on..

Well I'm very happy I have all of your brains to help out:jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile: Are there any questions you want me to get current answers for (TESTS)? The mom's were like Crispi had said light green their in the DWC log they were happy.. Anyway I'm beat I can not even say nature will take it's couse:cool: It's on me!!!

Thanks for the help GL1

[stinkyattic]

I'm going to strongly recommend here on record that you try a nute that is buffered for soil use, to further keep it in the desired range. The Canna line is an example of one.

Also, you have been doing this a while; if your electrode is older, it may actually need cleaning. This is what I do at teh lab for glass electrodes:
Acetone will remove organic gunk, and 'shocking' it by placing it in a solution of 50% pH down for ~30 seconds, RINSING WELL, placing in 50% pH up for 30 seconds, rinse again, repeat 3x, always ENDING with the pH down, then rinse off REALLY well before use- this conditions the electrode.
Also even if it doesn't need cal, check it against a fert solution that you have tested with liquid drops.

[GreenLeaf420]

I'm going to strongly recommend here on record that you try a nute that is buffered for soil use, to further keep it in the desired range. The Canna line is an example of one.

Also, you have been doing this a while; if your electrode is older, it may actually need cleaning. This is what I do at teh lab for glass electrodes:
Acetone will remove organic gunk, and 'shocking' it by placing it in a solution of 50% pH down for ~30 seconds, RINSING WELL, placing in 50% pH up for 30 seconds, rinse again, repeat 3x, always ENDING with the pH down, then rinse off REALLY well before use- this conditions the electrode.
Also even if it doesn't need cal, check it against a fert solution that you have tested with liquid drops.

I just looked @ the Canna Line and have no IDEA:rastasmoke: what I'm even looking at. I've been looking for a Grow Log on CHURCH for months now. I can not find any that are informative. I know that there are issues because GHS called a recall on them. They said that they recalled em because they did not POP. I did not see or hear of any negative traits that the strain carried just the recall but w/ the TW was the exact opossite. So I chose the church so I REVERSED all in the room and have no issues as far as herming and the TW looks great and the church is slow slow.. That is one thing that I have read about is that CHURCH's a very late developer. I did bury the 1" COCO pots with the babies in the beds... I can ramble all day and playing all that changed along the way... I will be starting up a Diary (last 3 weeks) I've been telling myself... I have quite a few church in Veg and they are all green and happy:wtf:... I know (From other threads) that changing a line can change and make a tremendous impact to the garden.. If it is not a feeding issue I'd rather not switch so I will give it 10 days to see if I (I hope we) can get a finger on it!!!! I think I will take GH's chart and feed @ 1/2 strenght for a week and see how it takes. I bought a lot of nutes so I do not have to make the trip... LOL I will get run off and Ill MicroFoil Spary tomorrow...

Thanks for all the help to all
Scincerelly,
GL!

[GreenLeaf420]

OK I popped some holes in the sides.... I really would like to know why some are doing great in the beds and others look like the lights changed yesterday... It is really bothersome but I have the big Girls that can use Xtra light If I wack 2 beds 30 little girlies out... I don't know even the church that is in pails has very little flowers forming... I think it is the strain not the beds... Their are some feeding issues but tommorow I will be dumping the beds with a huge flush going away over night Sun ill see them then next visit will be Tues AM...

I gave them the FloraMicro Fiolar spray today as well..

Keep you updated GL any IDEAS are more then welcomed Thank to ALL::thumbsup:

[GreenLeaf420]

Come on you guys.....the guy is growing in beds with no drainage right?


Some, from what I gather, but most likely inadequate.

I added some drainage holes to the sides of the beds to see if their are any changes...:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

GL I'm VERY interesed as to why some seem so happy and some don't. I've got two hydro plants going right now that are exactly the same Same age, same medium, same seeds, same ppms EVERYTHING!! Ones doing BEAUTIFULLY and the other is crawling along and is only about 1/2 the size of its sister. WHY? I don't get it either......

Sorry...to whine on your thread....:wtf:....rant over......:cool:

[GreenLeaf420]

GL I'm VERY interesed as to why some seem so happy and some don't. I've got two hydro plants going right now that are exactly the same Same age, same medium, same seeds, same ppms EVERYTHING!! Ones doing BEAUTIFULLY and the other is crawling along and is only about 1/2 the size of its sister. WHY? I don't get it either......

Sorry...to whine on your thread....:wtf:....rant over......:cool:

Please WH Continue it is driving me nuts as well...

STINK YOU HAVE ME LET'S TALK CANNA LINE!!!!

It may not be GH but why chance it now!!!!

Their is too much riding on a few Gallons of NUTES!!!! If you feel it is one of the possibility's then I'm willing to go ahead and change out.... Just like WH said their are girls w/ no affects and others FUCKED UP but they look happy w/ very little development... I see the big CHURCH's and the flowering is the same SHITTY and SLOW....

I'm mind fucked on this one... I would like to take a weed whacker to the room:(:(:(:(

GL1 OUT!!!

[GreenLeaf420]

:jointsmile::jointsmile::jointsmile:No response!!!!Well off to WoodStock 4 the W/E frunked UP!!!! 4 NOW a d the long w.e;)

See you all on Mon=Tues :(

GL!

[GreenLeaf420]

Back from Wood Stock COOL PLACE:

OK I think I figured out the problem... My CO2 is in front of the the 2 beds with issues and they dry up quick from the HEAT... Now the back beds are completely GREEN. Just the front two by the CO2 Burner are yellowing// The CO@ is hanging from the ceiling and is about 7-8 Ft Away... The Machine is spark ignition no glow plug or Pilot light... I have it only set to 1100 I will be bumping it up this week... STINK as far as the feeding I took some advice on the soil issue I added in a Tea.. Mothers Earth they seem much more happy have not yet reached over 1150 but tomorrow should be able to go to 1200 if all is well... The CHURCH is a late developer... The flowers were scarce and now they are blowing out like crazy.. I do not have air cooled lamps and had them pretty far off 22" from the canopy but I dropped them down to about 14" will see so far they like it... Think it is getting dialed in should be a smooooth landing keeping my FINGERS CROSSED

GL1

[stinkyattic]

All right, so am I! You should try to get your air circulating better then to prevent uneven patches of high CO2 or high heat in the room. Cool on the tea; it's probably got some good organic buffers/chelators that are helping keep micros available. And you sprayed a micro supp? That's the main reason your leaves are going to green up.

I was talking to my hydro shop guru the other day and if you want to go bed style, he'd recommend a deeper bed, full of an inert material or stabilized soilless mix, with SUPER EXTRA perlite. Personally, I'd run it as a top feeding drip-to-waste. Once long ago and far away on a site called Marihemp, was this dude who grew in beds made of kiddie pools full of hydroton... very cool!

[GreenLeaf420]

The good old pool Tech was going to be plan 2 but I found the Rubber Maids. They seem to be handling it pretty well except for the 2 fronts beds... I have a Air Can almost directly underneath the CO2 and it is blowing all times... Tomorrow ill add another fan into the room next to the CO2.. I do not see as good of development on the 2 front beds next to the CO2 like I do to the ones away from the CO2 in the rear.

They are really really happy looking.. I dropped down the Temp on the A/C's a bit Their is another 30 days or so left and I only chopped once into the lower branches taken off 7-8 shoots off the bottom 10 days in... All the grows I seen with beds and Clones seem to only have 1 large bud with maybe 2 little shoots.. These have a few more shoots then I would like but I think I will mess up the plants if I clean up some side shoots... I will just ride it out Yield should be OK but not GREAT... Time will tell Finally hit them w/ 1350 Ppm's the Tea seems to be helping out...

Thanks GL1

[Weedhound]

toss in some photos when you have a chance!