Afghanistan

[zeitgeist]

So since there is nothing to gain from being there I think we should leave it alone and just concentrate on Iraq.
There is nothing in afghanistan, one government will never be able to control it, and well never be able to defeat all of the Taliban and Alqaeda because they just go into Pakistan to hide then come right back when our forces leave.
Plus obviously a two front war never works. We should just concentrate on one thing.
Plus we'll save a shit load of money

Discuss...

[boaz]

^ i think we should concentrate on the province of Bin Ladestan within Pakastan. The Pakastan gov't can't deal seem to deal with them so I say, I would guess we likely are, flying predator drones over the mountains 24/7 all across Bin Ladenland.

[Dutch Pimp]

Afghanistan has been conquered a thousand times in it's history. All the Afghani people do, is wait until the conquistadors fall on their sword and start all over again. They have a very long tradition for this.

[Dream of the iris]

Oh man of course we should stay with Afganistan. For one thing we actually have a justifiable reason for being there and also because they pose more of a threat. Not only do they have more reasources to carry out their diabolical sceames(taliban I mean) if Pakistan were to become the new Iraq or even Afganistan then that would be horrible for us. Iraq has nothing that threatens us except for that its a breeding ground for terrorism...Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Nuff said.

[fishman3811]

Dream i totally agree we should bloody well finnish the job in Afghanistan and do it right...not this B.S OF 60-70 000 TROOPS SEND IN HALF A MILLION keep them there till the taliban is dealt with,and if the taliban want to play the waiting game in the tribal areas of pakistan go in there also because pakistan is willing to take your tax money and thats about all they will do for you....You know its time to stop playing fucking games get the job done right and be done with,or get out of the country but no more bloody games this shit is taking too long and costing too much to fuck around with.....

[Dream of the iris]

nice. We can sort of agree on something for once. But I must say it would be terrible if we just invaded Pakistan. The government wants to get rid of the Taliban just as badly as we do but the problem is that there are a lot of people in Pakistan who are affiliated with the Taliban and the leaders over there are too scared to supress them so they kind of act neutral on the whole thing. If Pakistan let us into their borders then surely the leaders would be heavily prone to execution causing once again another collapsed state. Except this collapsed state would really pose a threat to us. Of course if we just invaded Pakistan without approval not only would we piss off the U.N for violating the international laws but we would ultimately piss Pakistan off. What we need to do is leave temporarily. Get the remaining troops out of Afganistan now give them a break for once. Once the Taliban feel unthreatened by us seeing as how we're no longer there thats when we should come in with a massive force not just with the U.S but with our allies as well. If we moved in fast enough and surrounded the entire country making it difficult to flea then we can just off the ones who retaliate and capture the ones that surrender for intelligence. I know sounds kind of out there but hey one can dream right?

[fishman3811]

Dream thats a good point we could lure the taliban with a false sense of security let them come back full force then send in the troops close the country and trap them all...I know attacking Pakistan would be next to impossible but shit something has to be done this is bullshit already.We cant keep doing what we are doing because we are getting nowhere fast,our troops go into an area then leave then the taliban move back in.Its B.S....wE BUILD a school the taliban blow it up....when is it going to stop??IM 100% sure the afghans dont want the taliban back but they are scared and do u blame them because once we leave the taliban will come back and the people know that...So the Taliban have to be taken care of and fucking pakistan isnt helping out the situation one bloody bit...This whole thing is just FUBARD

[Dream of the iris]

ok ok so how about this. We stradegize with the Afgans to form an nation wide militia, consisting of men women and children. Get our best military scientist on the job to train leaders of different villages. Don't give them uniforms and make the tactics specifically underground and gurilla. Now I know some afgani's will resist the militia but surely enough will join to make a difference. Its either that or they get killed. We should also arm them with sophisticated weapons and teach them good military tactics. The Taliban will leave if we show up but they will come back once we are gone. The thing is the Taliban wouldn't expect peasents to rise up and challenge them and since the afganis are permanent residence there's no issue in leaving like it is with the U.S. It would be tough fight for them but with our help it would at least keep them out of Afganistan....of course then they would retreat to Pakistan and the other surrounding countries....but thats where we come in. Motivate the citizens of Afganistan to rise up against them. Train them and supply them with weapons and then leave. The taliban will come back and fight them and while they are busy fighting thats when we covertly come in with our allies and surround the country so when they finally are getting their asses wooped they will attempt to retreat but will fail.

hmmm this is so stupid it could possibly work. Now the other issue is the fact that there would probably be some that would escape. Those along with Osoma have the power of pursuasion which could allow them to rebuild their army. But by then they would be so weak Pakistan would not be afraid of them anymore and help the U.S weed them out.

[zeitgeist]

Dude, that's not gonna work. What do you think weve been doing this whole time? These tribes couldnt give a rats ass about Afghanistan as a whole. They are just looking out for themselves as theyve done for thousands of years.
Taliban really isnt even the issue. They dont care about attacking the United States. They just want control of Afghanistan and money. Alqaeda is the problem.
There are always going to be terrorists organizations and we will never be able to rid them all. Sometimes its best to just leave some things alone

[Dream of the iris]

ok.....then how about mini nukes?

[fishman3811]

We have been training the Afghans but its a slow proccess to say the least...It is up to the Afghan people to take a stand against the taliban.If you dont want to be ruled under taliban laws then stand up to them like other civilizations had to do to get rid of tyranny..

[Psycho4Bud]

We have been training the Afghans but its a slow proccess to say the least...It is up to the Afghan people to take a stand against the taliban.If you dont want to be ruled under taliban laws then stand up to them like other civilizations had to do to get rid of tyranny..

I'm amazed! Same way I feel about Iraq also.

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

P4B how true you are but unfortunatly many iraqis believe that America is the tyrant and want you to leave according to recent polls....But i dont know how afghanis feel about NATO being in there country trying to get rid of the taliban.From all the news reports we get here in canada all of it is positive and that the afghans want us there but that could all just be spin anyway,or it could be true.But i do know that we are building schools and roads and trying to make a difference in that poor country.

[Psycho4Bud]

P4B how true you are but unfortunatly many iraqis believe that America is the tyrant and want you to leave according to recent polls....But i dont know how afghanis feel about NATO being in there country trying to get rid of the taliban.From all the news reports we get here in canada all of it is positive and that the afghans want us there but that could all just be spin anyway,or it could be true.But i do know that we are building schools and roads and trying to make a difference in that poor country.

We're doing the same in Iraq and yes, the Iraqi's would love to see our forces gone but they also understand that we need to be there for a while longer. The offensive on Basrah showed that part of the region that the Iraqi forces were becoming more in charge...taking the lead in THEIR country.

Also, the head Cleric Sistani has stated that Al-Sadr's army should lay down their weapons and become part of the political process. This dude more/less controls 60% of Iraq.
Aides: Al-Sadr to 'obey' if al-Sistani orders - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-04-07-sadr-sistani_N.htm)

Have a good one!:s4:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I Absolutely agree with continuing the mission in Afghanistan. They directly funded and harboured AlQaeda, open enemy of America, and represent an ideological struggle over the very question of what rights a human being is entitled to. So long as these fanatics are willing to fight for their right to oppress, torture, and kill on a level unseen in 95% of other dictatorships, free nations should stand their ground against it.


(And might I just mention my fury over them destroying ancient Buddhist statues and whiping out all remnants of it, and any other faiths in the region).

[human8]

I think it needs to be addressed that despite the rhetoric, which is focused here on politics, the major reason we are in Afghanistan is the opium poppies.I mean, is that way off base? Seems it's more about heroin and opium than any political ideology.

[phatsesh101]

we should get together with canada (or take it over) for there oil sands which have 2.5 times more oil than all opec nations combined cut ourselves of and stop feeding the world let them all die of starvation then it will be the united world of america cause really we dont need them if we take canadas oil and what can canada do lol

[zeitgeist]

I Absolutely agree with continuing the mission in Afghanistan. They directly funded and harboured AlQaeda, open enemy of America, and represent an ideological struggle over the very question of what rights a human being is entitled to.

You just descibe more than half of the world

[Breukelen advocaat]

Afghanistan is capable of growing marijuana. My friends and I used to get hash that came from there, and it wasn't bad. If cannabis is ever legalized here, we should then try get Afghanistan interested in becoming a supplier - I'm sure that many of their poppy growers would be willing to switch, if the right deal was offered to them.

[Psycho4Bud]

My friends and I used to get hash that came from there, and it wasn't bad.

Now that brings back memories.:D Not bad? I thought it was pretty damn good at the time. HELL YEAH, vote for me for President and I'll turn that whole damn country into a marijuana field!:thumbsup:

And I'll lower taxes, kiss ugly babies, and tell ya all sorts of lies.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

You just descibe more than half of the world

Probably more than half too! But I'm talking specifically about Afghanistan because they are among the worst, the height of human rights abuses. Aside from them you have North Korea, a few others I'm probably forgetting, but to me the Taliban is not just a human rights abuser; it's a world leader in such evil.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I think it needs to be addressed that despite the rhetoric, which is focused here on politics, the major reason we are in Afghanistan is the opium poppies.I mean, is that way off base? Seems it's more about heroin and opium than any political ideology.


Mmmm.... probably off base. Afghanistan has been at the opium production for hundreds of years, possibly thousands (I took a history course on this 6 years ago, so I'm pretty rusty). Right now they're mostly allowing opium production to continue, which I actually agree with since wiping out the crops indiscriminately, war-on-drugs style, would turn the population against us.

The government likes to tell us that all drug-crop owners are scary bad guys, out to undermine the human soul; but the reality is an impoverished population that would starve without their cocao/opium/cannabis crops. I think the ticket here is to help them develop a new economy based on legitimate goods to feed their families, which I'm pretty sure they're doing.

[zeitgeist]

Afghanistan is capable of growing marijuana. My friends and I used to get hash that came from there, and it wasn't bad. If cannabis is ever legalized here, we should then try get Afghanistan interested in becoming a supplier - I'm sure that many of their poppy growers would be willing to switch, if the right deal was offered to them.

Great idea. This would be a win win situation
I love our government. We'll allow certain drugs like cocaine and heroin to get in to the country for our political gains and then we'll arrest the people who buy it. US gov. at its finest

[Dutch Pimp]

Home of the Kush...:thumbsup:...Afghanistan.

[boaz]

Home of the Kush...:thumbsup:...Afghanistan.

nice. :thumbsup: and i thought i lived in the valley of green giants, not sure how big those are but looks like quite a little patch of them. :jointsmile:

[medicinal]

Taliban takes high cover
Canâ??t smoke â??em out? Troops struggle with 10-foot Afghan marijuana plants

Bronwen Roberts / AFP-Getty Images file
A soldier of the International Security Assistance Force walks past a marijuana field that Taliban militants reportedly used for cover Sept. 19 outside Panjwayi, Afghanistan in Kandahar province.

[medicinal]

Marijuana fighters fox Canadians

Isaf forces have found marijuana forests in Kandahar Province
Taleban fighters using giant Afghan marijuana forests for cover are proving a tough foe to smoke out, the head of Canada's armed forces has revealed.
Thickets three metres (10ft) high readily absorb heat, making them hard to penetrate with thermal devices, said Gen Rick Hillier in a speech in Ottawa.

"You really have to be careful the Taleban don't dodge in and out of those marijuana forests," he added.

Burning them is not an option as they are laden with water, the general said.

He was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency that the crew of at least one armoured car had responded by camouflaging their vehicle with marijuana.

Canada's armed forces have more than 2,300 personnel deployed in Afghanistan as part of the Isaf international force and have suffered at least 40 fatalities

[Dutch Pimp]

5 Taliban fighters can keep a Marine company tied down for 14 hours by firing a clip or two...then melt back into the rocks.


...the Marines will use lavish firepower on nothing...then advance the next day...toward, another pile of rocks.

[FreshNugz]

we should get together with canada (or take it over) for there oil sands which have 2.5 times more oil than all opec nations combined cut ourselves of and stop feeding the world let them all die of starvation then it will be the united world of america cause really we dont need them if we take canadas oil and what can canada do lol

LOL that's one master plan champ.
And yes we are loaded with oil...however we already sign 90% of it over to the United States, and even they apparently 'don't have enough'.