Deficiency/Toxicity symptoms in hydro plants, help

[colour]

Literally, no.

-DWC
-T5 Flo
-70-77* F
-34-44% RH
-Apprx 5th week in veg.
-Fox Farm 3 Part w/ LK and CM+(alternating at res change)
apprx. 10ml per 1.5 gallons / 3-5 ml CM+ and LK
-Distilled water
-Light 6-10" from tops
-5.8 pH
-800-900 ppm

Satori

They have been doing so well, considering they have my V card. I noticed the one has a few fan leaves that have been getting a little crispy on the tips. First, I thought it was a P problem so I upped it and nothing really happened; now back to 1-1-1.

So, what now? Anyone have a shine of enlightenment or a little experience with Satori? Thanks everyone who reads and responds!!

-Colour:thumbsup:

[colour]

night bump

[colour]

Also, do the leaves look healthy outside of the toasty tips? The dark middle - light outter coloration seems odd...

[Mr. Clandestine]

I'm still totally new to hydro, so I don't want to throw any answers out there that may be totally wrong. Maybe while you wait on another response, you can put some of the puzzle pieces together here:

Revised: The Complete Guide To Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles (http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=8778)

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[colour]

Thanks Mr. Clandestine! It was definitely a shove in the right direction.

Anyone else want to take a stab??

[colour]

By the way, that guide is neato...Everyone needs to save that one.

[colour]

I know everything...except what I know is nothing. I am pretty sure what I have is a K deficiency. My normal formula is 1-1-1 (10-10-10ml) and in an attempt to fix the problem I changed it to 8-8-15ml - to pump up the K; its only getting worse!! Does this mean its not a potassium problem or is there a special way of fixing these deficiencies...?

CC my plants need some experience....please aid!!

Colour :(

[colour]

...am I invisible..?

[Mr. Clandestine]

Maybe if we can get this post moved to the Hydroponic forum, you'll have a little more luck getting answers. I flagged it for moderators to take a look at, hopefully one of our knowledgeable hydro growers will be around soon to lend a hand.

Take care. :jointsmile:

[stinkyattic]

What's the temperature IN the res water? Are the pots sitting on a cold concrete floor?
It looks like overfert, but your ppms are REALLY low.
Try setting the pH right at 6.0.
What are you doing to aerate the reservoir?

[colour]

Ahhh Mr. Clandestine,again, stopping in to give me a breath of fresh air. Thank you I really appreciate your help!!

[stinkyattic]

Keeping this here, as it's a plant problem.
You might want to name threads what they are about if you want people who can help fix the problem to even read the thread.

[colour]

Stinky-- Overfeeding crossed my mind, too. Mandala (maker/breeder,manufacturer, w/e) of the seeds say this strain needs very little nutrients so I dropped it down to about 650 PPM last night. I'm not sure of the res temp butt hey are sitting on a tile floor. Whats the target res temp, btw?


:joint1:

[colour]

Oh,word....Yea I guess that makes sense....

[stinkyattic]

Target res temp is about the same as target room temp. Keep it oxygenated and in the upper 70s, and stable. Put foam insulation under the pots if the floor is very cold.

[Weedhound]

Did I read correctly that you are alternating your CalMag and Liquid Karma? If so.......quit it. They are not in any way interchangable products.

If thats what you are indeed doing then there is your problem.......CalMag should be part of your STANDARD fert routine. The LK is extra beans.

[luvfriday]

Im just throwing this out there, I figure someone will have to agree or disagree but when my plant leaves got 2 shades of green folliar feeding helped. (ps due to my own toxicicity I am in no mood to be spell checking anything)

My 2nd grow is just getting going so hopefully youll just read my advice and let someone who knows more about this tell you if it would help the color of the leaves because it wont help the brown edges just the color.

[colour]

Stinky - I use Sunleaves oxystones. i'll check the res temps

Weedhound - I alternate LK and CM at res change, I follow Latewoods method loosely....come to think of it I dont think I had this problem until I started alternating the CalMag...

Luvfriday- thnks for the input. honestly foliar feeding scares the hell out of me...Im worried about overtanning them...ya know?

[Weedhound]

CalMag replaces the minerals etc that RO or distilling takes out of your water. So yes.....you pay to take everything out of the water and then you pay to put things back in.

CalMag should be between a third and a half of your total ppms if using RO or distilled water every time. Liquid Karma isn't necessary.....CalMag is.

Good luck.

[stinkyattic]

Foliar feeding isn't scary! In fact, it has application in treating observed deficiencies WHILE you are trying to figure out how you got them, by bypassing the roots.
I like to feed my plants with a weak solution of the 'GH Micro' from the GH 3-part. I mix it up at about a tablespoon in a quart spray bottle, with a drop of dish soap to make it 'stick' (surfactant), and mist lightly. That buys you more time to fix the source of the problem.

[colour]

If I'm following ya Stinky: Foliar could touch up the cosmetic blemishes while you are treating the roots? Do you ever have problems with them burning from magnification?

Is the same method good for clones, foliar with a weak solution?

[stinkyattic]

I'd wait until the clones are established before feeding them, but then, yes, it's fine.
I never have light burn problems because the key is the 'MIST LIGHTLY' part of the instructions. The dish soap acts as a surfactant and breaks up droplets, and you should use the finest possible mist, and apply VERY lightly, let dry, wait a day, apply again, watch for improvement. Follow? I always urge restraint in feeding because it's easier to fix hungry plants than burnt ones! :D

[colour]

You all are the shhhheeeeeeiiiiit.

[stinkyattic]

werd. :thumbsup:

[colour]

Update: I know its only been a few days but they are getting worse...a lot worse. Would a good flush help? I want to have these in bloom 2 weeks from now...feasible?

[Weedhound]

Colour, what have you changed and what are your specs right now? A photo would help alot as well.

They SHOULD be looking at least better..... not a lot worse. Have you calibrated all your meters recently?

[colour]

This is a bummer, man...thats a bummer...They are definitely showing no signs of improvement. I changed my formula to add some K: i went from 10-10-10ml per 1.5 gal to 8-8-15ml...and nothing. I also did a res change, 8-8-8 and at top offs added about 5ml of Grow Big (3-2-6)...Im thinking it has something to do with my top-off routine - I posted a thread in the Hydroponic section addressing the issue...As for my meters, they're dead on - Milwaukee:thumbsup:

thx,
Colour

[colour]

oh, and they just turned out the lights so i'll get some photos up tomorrow morning.

[the image reaper]

CalMag replaces the minerals etc that RO or distilling takes out of your water. So yes.....you pay to take everything out of the water and then you pay to put things back in.

CalMag should be between a third and a half of your total ppms if using RO or distilled water every time. Liquid Karma isn't necessary.....CalMag is.

Good luck.

absolutely, positively, CORRECT :thumbsup: ... lay off the Karma for awhile, it supposedly coats the roots with gunk (I can't say for sure, I use molasses instead) ... use 10ml Cal Mag+ per gallon, you are definitely deficient ... you probably already know this, but Mandala's website has some of the best growing advice of anyone, I think he has it under his 'FAQ' section ... (Mike knows his stuff :thumbsup:) ... and, put up some photos, we can't guess at this stuff ... :smokin:

[colour]

Thanks for stopping by Image Reaper! Here are a few pictures from this morning. 1st two are of the sick one, 3rd is the halfway healthy one.

I haven't read Mandala's FAQ's but you know I'm going to right now.

[the image reaper]

looks like a phosphorous deficiency to me ... add a dose of Tiger Bloom to your solution in the reservoir, and mix a 1/2 strength spray bottle of same, for foliar feeding (spray both sides of the leaves, early in the 'morning' period, while the pores are open) ... the bad leaves will continue to look bad, but the plant will be OK ... that sure is a nice-looking plant, otherwise ... Mike breeds some great gear :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

I'd also think about the fact that these plants obviously were doing quite well (big healthy leaves and plant despite current issues) so that makes me SERIOUSLY wonder about the possiblity of rootbound plants......They do look a smite worse and no better.....we should have seen some improvment by now.

Colour you need to realize that with plants MANY symptoms MIMIC each other. Often times diagnosis is figured by trying things one by one and seeing what works. Welcome to hydro!

PS....My personal thought....rootbound at this point......they DO show defs....but I don't think that is your real problem right now. How do the roots look?

[colour]

Weedhound - Yea hydro has given me a huge slap with the hand of reality. And, again, you bring up a very interesting point...I'm going to post some pictures of the roots to show what I mean..

[colour]

1) Sicko, 2) Not Sureo

[the image reaper]

1) Sicko, 2) Not Sureo

Liquid Karma also makes roots look like shit, but doesn't harm them ... check for that :jointsmile:

[the image reaper]

I got a dollar, that says it's a Phosphorous deficiency :twocents: :D

[Weedhound]

I'll match you sir and raise you one. :D Your roots look EXTREMELY sad and diseased and tied in a big knot to me. I just had this EXACT same issue with my power plant.

More space....quick.
Hydrogen peroxide....quicker....like yesterday.

If using store bought 3% H202 go with 2 teaspoons a gallon every other day.
Google up "root rot." I'm betting 2 DOLLARS its a space issue. :D

[the image reaper]

I'll match you sir and raise you one. :D Your roots look EXTREMELY sad and diseased and tied in a big knot to me. I just had this EXACT same issue with my power plant.

More space....quick.
Hydrogen peroxide....quicker....like yesterday.

If using store bought 3% H202 go with 2 teaspoons a gallon every other day.
Google up "root rot." I'm betting 2 DOLLARS its a space issue. :D

it COULD be root-rot, but just because its brown and gloppy-lookin' (it could just be the Liquid Karma) ... ya gotta gimmee some time, Weedie, just a few more aluminum cans, and I'll match yer $2 :D ...

regardless, go with Weedhound's H2O2 plan, it's your best hope at this point ... if it perks up, after the H2O2 is flushed out, add some Fox Farm Big Bloom (active bacteria that acts like first-aid for plants), BUT chlorine or H2O2 will kill the new, beneficial bacteria, so keep that in mind ... :jointsmile:

[colour]

On it! You all have been stellar. I stopped giving them LK a couple res changes ago so I'd say the color is coming from that.

Updates in a few!

Colour:clap:

[Weedhound]

Colour,

Don't forget areating.......critical for roots hanging in water constantly.

Good luck!

[Rusty Trichome]

I'm not a hydro guy, but switching stressed plants from 18/6 to 12/12 is going to compound their stress. Might be best to figure-out what's stressing them, correct the problem, then go for the switch.

Stinky: Do you rinse the leaves after the foliar/surfactant spray, to remove the soap film? Just curious...

[stinkyattic]

I agree with RT that you should never flower a plant until it is in good health.
I don't rinse the leaves- a drop of soap in a quart of water doesn't leave a significant film; anyway, I use so much SMC leaf wash on my plants that there's quite a film already.

[Rusty Trichome]

:eek: Stinky has bugs...? :eek:

[stinkyattic]

Yup. I got mites from visiting a friend's growhouse, even though when I got home I stripped nekkid in the hall before even entering my apartment, and left my clothes outside :( Guess I shoulda shaved my head too. But I also have ladybugs, and my little ecosystem is flourishing. The mites cause very very little damage since their numbers are kept in check by the army of scarlet hunters chomp chomp chomp! Plus the SMC prevents moisture loss at any damage sites.

[colour]

Well, I broke down and picked up some FloraKleen. I'm hoping its pretty self explanatory - I think 2 hours of relaxation will do them. After that is it best to introduce full strength nutes?

[Weedhound]

I'm sorry....two hours of ? I would go with 1/2 strength nutes and work your way back up over a week or so depending upon how they do. Do the roots look any better?

[colour]

2 hours of flush*. You should have seen the gunky mess that was in the bucket afterward!! the roots look clean and happy. Half strength for now and lets see how they react.

[colour]

I've been trying my luck with cloning...its been so so. Here are 2 that are coming along OK and was wondering what you all thought.
The one in front is starting to root but the tips are a little brown..this normal? Don't mind the lazy a** one in back...

Colour :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Ha ha you are so asking the wrong person about clones....they look good to me but I am a serial clone slaughterer.

Sounds like you did a good job with the flush.....hope that solves the problem for you. Consider a good zyme product (cannazym, sensizym) that you can add to your res to help keep your roots healthy.

:thumbsup:

[colour]

is the light too close and burning the tips..?

[Weedhound]

I don't think so....my tips turned brown too on my (only) clones.