Wet Rock: a journey to the Darkside

[Rock.Steady]

Welcome, and gather 'round.:D

those of you who have been following along the previous and current adventures of our intrepid explorer know him as a dirty-boy.

well, thats about to change, at least for this experiment.

that's right folks, Rock Gets Wet, right here, for the first time, a journey to the darkside of Hydro.

the coaches for this oddysee will be:
Weedhound, my knowledgable, patient and faithful friend throughout my mis-adventures with the nobel herb.
and MVP, who has offered experience and support.
(yup, u been drafted pal);)

I also expect a few guest appearances by some other very cool folk who have popped in n out of prior threads and some especially who have offered support and persuassion to try the ways of the water.

there will be some known and accepted methods, some home brew technology, and maybe a strange wacky idea thrown in from time to time, just to see how much trouble I can get in with my lead coach.;)

all this is a new game for me, and i didnt even perfect the dirty game yet, so, we'll see how things go. Along the way, I will try to acknowledge those who's ideas have inspired me to do things one way or another.
One of the main goals here is to have a simple, yet productive grow.
(wow there's an innovative idea, aye?)

today is the very begining of this adventure.
Join me on my oddysee, I'm hoping it will be alot of fun.



in the begining, there was a bean; SNLxNH (fem) Thanks WH:thumbsup:
in a pinch for germ media, a suggestion by MVP, Vermeculite and Perlite mix. I went 50-50. soaked it, ran water thru, watched it get all puffy w water and drain out, ok, cool.
i decided a small dixie cup that i cut large holes in the bottom would work. I also decided i would germ in this mini cloner gizmo i made.
The design on this was inspired by MVP's cloning log I just downsized dramatically.
normally this would be used for clone cuts, but i had a spare lid, so i cut out to fit the cup. the bean is about 1/3 inch down from top.

I need to pick up a few more things tomorow at the `dro shop, so, as we move to the next steps, i'll share whats happenin.

thanks for reading.
see you soon:D

[SnSstealth]

ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!......lol, tis good man, i stand alone dirty(taps playing). ill be in here though man, watching, waiting for you to come back....look at your nails?...no dirt?!?! whatever shall you do?...get a sandbox?....Im just playin man, Ill be in to give my support to ya:jointsmile::thumbsup:. its all about experimentation.....
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Rock.Steady]

hahahaha, Thanks WT, yeah, well, ya know, i need to try whatever i can. gotta get the yeilds up, up, up.

but hey, im not outta the dirty game yet, Galina is still doin her thing and there are a few on deck in the veg bunker, gettin bigger, as we speak:thumbsup:

not givin them a log of their own til they emerge from the bunker.



back to the wet experiment. (calling the weedhound)

ok, hey coach, i think i got all the supplies i needed.
I decided to follow your lead on nutes.

flora nova grow, check
flora nova bloom, check
ph control kit, check
hydroton, check
flora kleen, check
and a digi TDS pen (sunleaves) for 40 bux:D

ok, so, you said i need to check ph of my water,.

i checked the water alone and was about 6

i checked it with the grow nutes and was about 4.5-5.0

i'm not exactly what im looking for, so, i am reporting my findings for your review.

i didnt get the calmag, and really hope i dont have to, but, you tell me, based on this info, ok?

i'll have the main bucket finished tomorow.
the seed still needs to sprout b4 we can use the bucket anyways.

ok coach, how'd i do???

[Rock.Steady]

hey WH, after reading your nute guide, i guess i need to measure the ppm in tap water, ok, 240.

what does this mean???

we continue the prep stage:D

[hydrocannabis]

hey rock hows it going. and welcom to the hydro game.

I love playing in the wet game.
cuz all my plants grow much faster and heather than have ever grown befor. and its way cleaner also.

So I wish U lots of good luck in the wed and wild game called HYDROPONICS.
good luck :D
on a nice Grow :thumbsup:
here this :jointsmile: have it.
stay :cool: brotha.

peace out.

[zebulon]

So I wish U lots of good luck in the wed and wild game called HYDROPONICS.

Me too...:thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

hey hydro, thanks bro.
yeah, take a seat, this looks like its shaping up to be an interesting trip.

still waiting for my coach to check in:wtf::D



-add on.-

hey zeb, thanks dude. we shall see, we shall see.:D

[zebulon]

So Rock, you gonna grow SNLxNH ?? What do you know about this strain?? Have you smoked SNLxNH before??

[Rock.Steady]

hey zeb, never smoked it,,,yet.

here is a what i know

1- Weedhound grew a "personal best" yeild from this strain. something just crazy like 15 z's on 2 plants:jawdropper:
2- here is a quote direct from the breeders page description

A classic Indica/sativa â??â??winnersâ??â?? cross (NLxHaze) in an upgraded edition. One parent is an upgraded Northern Light. With an according to connesuirs â??â??Sourâ??â?? smell and taste. She was never crossed with â??Sourâ?? strains, she just has that smell and taste. Like any Northern Light she is very strong and crossed with an indoor adapted Nevilles Haze. They need 10-12 weeks of 12/12 and 3-4 feet in height after 2-3 weeks of veg. Expect overgrown with resin buds here, with a very special smell and taste. They maybe need a bit longer than average, but will perform far out better than average too


also, these are fem'd. WH hooked me up when i had that string of males that popped.

i know the pix were kick ass, WH, wanna show the class what we're shootin for here? :D

[Weedhound]

Rock....your ph control kit has ph up and ph down? Good for you to find an inexpensive tds meter.....you'll be VERY happy later.

If that cup has vermeculite and perlite......when you go to move the seedling won't all that stuff just fall apart?

I would do this expirement with your tap water......take some in a bowl or something and adjust the ph to 5.6......leave overnight.....check a few times......see if the ph stays were you put it or if not.....how stable DOES it stay when you set the ph? This will be your deciding factor on your tap water.....does the ph stay where you want?
If so, you are good to go with it and won't need any CalMag. The only real way to know is to test it. ;)

[Weedhound]

You can also start rinsing and soaking all your hydroton as well.....first rinse as much the red dust off as you can.....then place a bunch of it in water....adjust ph to 5.6 and check in a hour or two......then proceed to do this same thing with the ph 9,000,000
times until the damn hydroton finally stays at the correct ph.....this can take a few days depending.

You know Flora Nova may be one of those that you might not need CalMAg......if I recall correctly but I'd have to check with my hydro guy to be sure. Again.....whether your tap water will stay stable at a certain ph is more the deciding factor on the water.

[Rock.Steady]

hey coach, thanks for checkin in.
yes, the ph control kit has tester and 'up' n 'down' and only 16 bux:D

on the v/p seedling mix. when i was playing with the stuff, before i put the bean in it, i wet it and then (to see how fragile or stable) i plopped it out into my hand, the way we all used to make sandcastles at the beach, a million years ago, when life was playtime and innocence, it stayed together, now, im sure it wont take a lot to make it fall apart, but im hoping a bunch of roots may help hold it together. i think, if im careful placing it in the bucket and shoring it up with the hydroton pebbles may keep it together enuf for my purposes. i guess time will tell.

would it really be the end of the world if it did fall apart, after it makes the move to the bucket?

i will start the long term testing of my tapwater at once.
i will start priming the hydtn pellets at once.

i will report back with my results, thanks:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

You'll just have to be very careful and gentle when placing it in there is all. The more you can prep your hydroton before hand the HAPPIER you will be later believe me.

[Weedhound]

Also do you have a link to your Sunleaves tds meter or do you know what what conversion it is set at....0.5 or 0.7?

[Rock.Steady]

ok, here we go.

first, the link for the TDS pen
Sunleaves :: TDS Essential Digital TDS Pen (http://www.sunleaves.com/detail.asp?sku=STD500)

wow, youre not kiddin bout the red dust.:wtf:
rinsing like crazy.

now, heres a lil irony, i found the cup of water i used lastnight to check the ph. altho i did not 'set' the ph lastnight, i checked to compare if there was a change, it did creep up about a 1/2 a point.
one other thought. the water is dam cold rite now and im sure its not a good idea to pour cold water into the plant, so, im guessing ill need to always have some jugged sitting around for room temps.
with that in mind, should i just leave it out before i start all this testing?
just in case that doesnt matter, i already tested and set the bowl of water as u instructed between 5 and 6. my kit is not a ph pen, its a vial and solution, so, im going by the lil color chart.
btw, did i tell you im somewhat colorblind?:wtf:
just on shades tho, and it doesnt affect my ability to compare and match colors side by side, but i have had arguements about the color of my dress socks or a shirt, when just looking at those items by themselves:wtf:

ok, back to the rinsing.:)

[stinkyattic]

Cool beans, that looks like a modified Treetops Can?

[Weedhound]

Hydro is more exacting than soil....if the ph is not correct you WILL injure the plant so decide if being colorblind and not really reading the shades of water is going to work for you.....you AREN'T going to get the chance to make a lot of mistakes in hydro. YOU ARE HEREBY WARNED so I don't want to hear it when you try to slide on something and it comes back to bite you in the ass young man. :wtf:

[Rock.Steady]

stinky- are u talkin about my av? thats just a giant folgers container, modified to bubbler and a dome from a clear container.

wh- no, dont misunderstand, i CAN match colors side by side, like the solution and the chart.
the issue i have is if u say "rock, get those dark green socks you have" i say here they are, and you say "i said green, not blue"

give me an example to compare to and its party on. make me decide freestylin and its hit or miss:wtf:

for the record, those eye test charts with the different color spots and i have to identify the letter hidden in the colors,,,,well, that a challenge.:wtf:

[Weedhound]

Good because I was ready to bop you one. :wtf: :jointsmile: I tried the sunleaves link but under documetation it never went anywhere so I couldn't check the conversion. Does the guy who sold it to you know or does it say in your instruction sheet or anything? It should be either 0.5 or 0.7.

And hey....don't get that seedling too wet or it won't hatch....just germ it like normal I think if you aren't already.

[Rock.Steady]

i have no idea what this 0.5 - 0.7 thing is ur asking.
here is the tiny paperwork that came with it.
does this help, or should i call them, and what exactly am i asking if i need to call.


ive never been so clueless on technical subjects, im feelin like fish outta water.:wtf:

[SnSstealth]

wow guys.......lol i see why im dirty, lol....but lookin at WH plants.......

[Rock.Steady]

....but lookin at WH plants.......

and THATS EXACTLY what i'm talkin about.:wtf:

also, i will make a statement regarding my previous claims to all the hydro i smoked in the past tasting crappy,,,
i keep seeing everyone around here singing the praises of the taste and potentcy of their hydro bud, leads me to believe that the hydro i smoked in the past wasnt either flushed or cured properly.

with that said, im certain that with my past poor experiences, i'll be double sure to do it right. if i do, then i prove im better at this than the fools i gave my money to in the past.:wtf:

[basementbotany]

anything that you grow will always be better than something you bought.

[SnSstealth]

i agree to an extent rock...i have had great dro...i mean, pro grown GREAT dro....but taste wise, it couldnt hold to a sample of the same strain doen organic in soil...IMHO
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Rock.Steady]

ok coach, hydroton is rinsed clean, soaking and ph set tween 5-6.
also bucket o water has been ph set and is sitting quietly.

time to run some errands, back later.:D

[Weedhound]

ok check and adjust that hydroton every hour or something.....Im not joking.....you can't do it too often imo.

Rock, what kind of calibration solution comes with that sunleaves tds meter? What does the stuff say?

[Rock.Steady]

i didnt get the calibration solution.
sold seperately
the "calibration" portion of that paperwork says, factory calibrated and ready to use.:wtf:

ive been out for about 5 hrs , just checked and the ph has gone up to about 7.

i did mention i got a new job, right? (i start monday) if this stuff is gonna require constant monitoring, this may be a problem. a big problem.:(

i have to run out again, back in a couple hours.;)

[PdoubleOTY]

with my DWC set up, the first two grows had crazy PH climbing rates, but with this third grow, i feel the hydroton has really been flushed and neutralized because now it more if my water has nutrients in it or not. just plain tap water will climb like 1.5 2 points in a day or so at my place. with more nutrients, it climbs slower.. now with 1500 ppm veg growth, i cehck the ph every other day, and it only climbs .5-.7 at the most. things smooth out, and the growth of an unstressed hydro plant is fucking insane

[Weedhound]

If you can get it stable before monday you should be good....but you will need to calibrate your meter at some point. Whatever the calibration solution is will tell me what conversion you have.

WELL WHAT DID YOU HAVE TO GO GET A JOB FOR? DON'T YOU HAVE PRIORITIES??? :wtf: :D

Congrats...;):thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

WH, hey, i really dont wanna have to try to go back to the hydroshop if i dont have to just yet.
its a 20$ gas trip thats just not part of todays budget.

is there a specific question I can ask customer service tomorow?
i'll just call sunleaves directly.

the mope at the shop is not like ur guy, he's a dope that just knows how to point me to what i ask for and knows the price to charge me. they go thru guys at that place. in less than a year, this is the 2nd guy, last one was at least somewhat helpful. he would scurry about to collect what i asked for.

i just got in, and will check the ph and adjust right now, back in a few with my findings.;)
this should be fun with a buzz:wtf:

[Rock.Steady]

ok, took ten drops of 'down' to stabilize at 5-6, from 7 in approx 2.5-3 gals, this will be more water than my system can hold, but its good to get a feel for what it takes at what volume.

since it has been hours, i checked the tapwater i put aside earlier.
looks like in about 10 hrs, it went up about 1/2-3/4 a point-ish.
thats just the plain water. hoping i wont need the calmag, but, u tell me.

this is hopefully not going to be as complicated as it may appear.

[hatch]

Rock.Steady,
You will be glad you got out of the dirt. You can keep you ph at a reg. level and know exactly ec-ppm, I like using large res. 20gal to 50gal. The Ph does'nt flux. as much.

I also like using the 2" basket with a rapid rooter plug. You can have massive root structure's and and don't have to mess with vem. and lova rock's.
With hydro- ( I like Aeroponic's, The root system's get nothing but nut's,water,oxygen), you can get more plant's closer, and maintenance the plant's.

But anyway Wel-come to hydro!!!. Later

[Rock.Steady]

Hatch, thanks, but, you're suggesting a setup that is on a grand scale compared to the space i have available. those resevoirs size suggestions are simply far too large for my use. but thanks for your support:thumbsup:


hey coach, ph update.

the hydroton bath did creep up to 7 again overnite, i tweeked and will check in a while.
does this stuff always make the ph creep? will it ever stabilize?

the small tub with water only did creep a lil overnight to about 6.5, so about a point in 18 hrs or so.

[SnSstealth]

GO ROCK!!!!! this shits seems just as complicated as far as learning new shit as i am going through with the LEDs. congrats man, and good luck gettin that ph down...your good with the ladies, ;) so you should be fine
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Rock.Steady]

Thanks WT;)



hey coach-
i contacted Sunleaves.

the conversion factor for this pen is 0.5

not that i have a flippin clue what that means,,,,,yet:wtf::D

ok, lets get crackalackin:cool:

[Weedhound]

0.5....thank you....that's what I needed to know..

It will take several days and a BUTTLOAD of ph down to beat it into submission but eventually your hydroton will bow to the correct ph. You're getting the idea of why I hate hydroton and my other reason for disliking it is that it seems to encourage fert buildup in my plants and cause problems later but I seem to be the only one that happens to for some reason. On it's plus side.....it's exremely lightweight which is nice and it repels algae very well.

As for your tap water it sounds ok......try one other thing for me if you would. Take your water and add some nutes to it....say enough to take the ppm to five hundred (you're tap water starts at 240, correct?) Then adjust ph to 5.6 and leave overnight....check again tomorrow. Hopefully the ph buffers in your nutes will keep things at the ph you set it to......that's the entire point of what we are trying to accomplish here.......a stable ph.....and we are testing to see if your tap water will hold one. My well water would creep up above 7.....sometimes to 8 no matter HOW much ph down I added. This is what we want to determine with yours.

[Weedhound]

Bluelab (http://www.getbluelab.com/education/values_and_scales.html)

Here's an excellent article on ppms, conversions, ec.....all the stuff you need to know. In my nute schedule I work off a 0.7 conversion while you are working off a 0.5 so our numbers will not match but at the bottom of that page is a link to a chart that compares the two conversions so you can see the differences.

[Rock.Steady]

ok, well, it looks like i have some home work.:wtf::D

[Rock.Steady]

ok, i've been outta the loop for a couple days and a couple reasons, but, i'm baaaaaaack:)

1st-
a report on my tapwater w- grow nutes, MAINTAINED PH:thumbsup:
so, im gonna hope my tapwater is gonna b good 2 go.

next, the hydroton, ok, part of the delay, im sure, is me:wtf:

like a knucklehead, 2 days into the soaking, i realized there really was only a 2-3 cups of leftover Hton from my soaking vat. well of course, i proceeded to rinse it clean and added it to the Hton i was beating into PH submission.
of course, the PH gave me more trouble, well, thats ok, ill keep lowering it. i'll take the blame on that. at least i didnt do it to a plant and then ask, "how? why?" duh.:wtf:

it seemed like we were getting close to a stable PH before i added the untreated leftovers.
so, ill work with it some more.:cool:

and theres more, look who popped outta the verm/per bubbler???
thats right SNLxNH(fem). see below;)
and, i am almost done working the bugs outta my home-brew drip/bubbler combo.
i took Xcrispy's suggestion of a 3 gal inside a 5 gal bucket idea.
i then took in in my own weird direction, i didnt have those exact buckets handy.
i have several assorted soil pots of sizes from 6 qt - 3 gal.
and several various sized bins.

i am working on 2 sizes and would like some input.

i have avail some 6 qts that i can use as baskets with 1.5-2 gal as a recirc resevoir. do you think that basket would be too small? whats a smallest size you would not expect extra problems with?
i can use bigger, but my main concern is headroom in the veg bunker.
my max top to bottom is 31 inches, thats including everything, max headroom, period.
i have larger buckets, but again, my concern is headroom.

i would have to make substantial modifications to change it.:(

[Weedhound]

Does she have true leaves????? PS ....i sent you an e -mail.

[Rock.Steady]

those are not 'real' leaves, its those coty-whatevertheyrcalled things, BUT the 2 real leaves are already coming outta the center, i see em, maybe tomorow.:thumbsup:



now really tho, as i near deadline, i need some input on basket and resevoir size as stated above, i have choices and concerns.


and how big should i let it grow before we move to the bucket?

ps-got ur email and replied;)

[Weedhound]

Ok....you can see the first true leaves starting? Excellent! I took your advice and put my latest soil seed under a cfl so I hope it get some damn leaves like yours. :thumbsup:

Can you post a pic of these pots you are talking about? You want your larger outside bucket as large as possible....more water will stay much more stable with your nutes and ph.

[Rock.Steady]

ok, here are 2 i have ready, kinda.

sq one is a foot tall, 6qt bucket/pot, all i gotta do is drill zillions of holes.

round one is like 15 in tall, 3 gal basket/pot, already drilled bottom like swiss cheese

either of these i can get about 2 gals in for ressevoir, and water level is a couple inched below bottom of basket.

basket depth on both is bout 7 inches, but, i could shallow it up by cutting them down.
see, i have many options.

how much water resevoir size is good?

how small a basket is too restrictive? or, is it ever a restriction?, roots would growq out and then dangle in the water. good or bad???

again, i know nothing of this water voodoo:wtf::D

[MrHound]

Hey Rock,


The Mrs. showed me the nice cloner you made for us.

Tis very nice tyvm! Yes u r talented with your creations made from scratch here.

Lookin forward to cuttin some clones and reporting back on the results.



Yours Always - Da Pup

[Rock.Steady]

Hey Rock,


The Mrs. showed me the nice cloner you made for us.

Tis very nice tyvm! Yes u r talented with your creations made from scratch here.

Lookin forward to cuttin some clones and reporting back on the results.



Yours Always - Da Pup

HE SPEAKS!!!
well, i am honored, a visit by Mr Hound!:D

right on!
glad you like it!
yeah, im kinda handy:thumbsup:

its all about the "stuff" you have available.
I have 'stuff' of all kinds:D
George Carlin did a bit years back about "your 'stuff' and other peoples' 'shit'" it was a riot. if u ever heard it, youll understand.:D

many happy returns!

[Weedhound]

You could most likely get away with even something like a six inch pot or something.....either one will work for you since you aren't going to be growing trees. My w/f's hold about 2 and 1/2 gals of water to give you an idea....roots hanging in water is fine since you are going to be putting an airstone in your water as well as the drip system. Make sure your holes are big enough to allow good drainage and for the roots to grow through without clogging the holes.

Sounds like your tap water will work for you....disinfect your buckets before you start. You can put her in in a couple days but may not want to run the drip 24/7 until she gets a little bigger (but then you are in hydroton so it's probably fine.)

Once built go ahead and stick your h-ton in and run the system, checking ph frequently and readjusting as necessary. Then change to fresh water with a DROP....and I DO MEAN A DROP.....of superthrive and pop her in.

[Weedhound]

Just a couple thoughts to add on...if you like I'll try to work out a schedule for you based on your tap water and Flora Nova nutes to go by at a 0.5 conversion. Let me know.

Also what are the temps going to be in your growroom? Your water temps will be pretty close to your room or floor temp and can't be below about 65 degrees (WATER temp) so don't know if you've taken that into consideration because I am remembering something about your insulation..

[rhizome]

Damn, Rock-

That WeedHound is a tough taskmaster...

( ducks thrown pie)

[rhizome]

Hey, watch out for algae with all that clear plastic.

[Weedhound]

Banana Cream. :D

Gotta keep an eye on Rock....he gets ideas......this is a scary concept. :D :D ;)

[Rock.Steady]

Coach Weedhound-
ok, I can set up with the pot slightly above the resevoir cap if i want?
if so, i can do a 2-2.5 gal resevoir with about 3 inch space above water to bottom of the pot/basket, with a bit (1-2 inch) of basket above the lid.
like the pic. welcome to the rockworkshop:wtf::D

that pot is 7 inches deep with 2" above lid, i can cut down 1 in, make it 1 over and 6 total?

i have a 1/2 drill bit, i can make swiss cheese, i think any bigger is too big for alot of this media.
agree on size?

yes, good call on temps, had issue, got sm space heater, leave it all night, its gotten down to bout 60-65, i can turn up a bit.:thumbsup:


HEY RHIZ!
thanks for stoppin by man, yeah, she talked me into it, so, i will accept her as the task master indeed!
i made a promise to pay closer attention. this is all new for me pal:what:

hey nice call on the clear, but no worries. i have black vinyl spray cans. will coat outside the one that goes into service.:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

That should work fine for you....lots of holes....can't have too many holes. Let me dig up an old pic....

Rhizome, the GH Flora Nova....ideas about a nute schedule? I know that Rock's meter and GH are both going off a 0.5 conversion and he'll be using tap water. I've never used it myself and I've heard it's really concentrated but good stuff.

[Weedhound]

I ended up adding a third row of holes on top of those two and that seems to work about right.

[Rock.Steady]

That should work fine for you....lots of holes....can't have too many holes. Let me dig up an old pic....

Rhizome, the GH Flora Nova....ideas about a nute schedule? I know that Rock's meter and GH are both going off a 0.5 conversion and he'll be using tap water. I've never used it myself and I've heard it's really concentrated but good stuff.

ummm, eehhheeemmmmm.:wtf:

wasnt that the stuff u recomended>?:wtf:

am i confused or stoned.

[rhizome]

am i confused or stoned?

In a perfect world, both.:D

Lemme take a look @ the FloraNova stuff and ask some folks who're using it- get back to ya tonite.

[Weedhound]

Rock IS perfect when stoned....:D

Rock old chum I'm sorry but I use the Botanicare series.....the Flora Nova will do you fine so no worries...we just need to work you out a nute schedule and you'll be good to go. Shouldn't be hard since FN is a one part nute (i LOVE those) :) :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

In a perfect world, both.:D

Lemme take a look @ the FloraNova stuff and ask some folks who're using it- get back to ya tonite.


Thanks Rhizome...:)

:stoned::stoned::stoned:

[Rock.Steady]

Rock IS perfect when stoned....:D

Rock old chum I'm sorry but I use the Botanicare series.....the Flora Nova will do you fine so no worries...we just need to work you out a nute schedule and you'll be good to go. Shouldn't be hard since FN is a one part nute (i LOVE those) :) :thumbsup:

no worries.
for some crazy reason, i had the idea u were setting me up with something u already used or knew.

there is a feeding schedule on the GH site for FN

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_Recirculating.pdf

this is a schedule for a simple recirc system.
i belive thats part of what mine does(will do), right?

[Weedhound]

Hey how's your new baby? Does she have true leaves? The future of all depends on whether she does.....

I've found that most companies schedules are too high for real life. I don't think I've ever taken my plants to the top number of the companies suggestions...hint hint.

I would not call your system a recirculating system and neither is mine unless I add a water pump and circulate things that way.

Rock the best rule in hydro is this.....ALWAYS go lower when you are not sure of a problem. Anytime your plant is sick, burned or stressed it will benefit from LESS things rather than MORE....(hint hint :D) Anything looks weird to you....immediately go drop your ppm number by diluting with ph correct water and pull your lights back until you know what's going on. The mistake that most people make is always thinking that more is a better answer than less......especially iin hydro. Remember.....a deficiency can make your plant sick but overnute will kill your plant in a heartbeat.

PS....the other best rule....keep your ph between 5.5-6.2......ALWAYS. ;)

[Rock.Steady]

gotcha:thumbsup:

I prolly shoulda bought the hardware kit.
this stupid halo is turnin into a pain in the azz.

is there anything u can think of that im missin?

i may need to take a ride saturday to the dro-shop and would prefer to get all at once.

baby SNL still only tiny lil sprout of a leaf, maybe an inch tall total.

[Weedhound]

Well from what I saw from your cloner I'm sure you'll build one fine. And yeah.....get some calibration solution for your meter. ;)

If you are interested you could grab some Sweet but that's definitely an extra and you wouldn't be using it for a couple weeks anyway. The only other thing I'd think about if I were you is Cannazyme or some sort of zyme product. Again an extra but a real nice one. If you want to stick with the basics you've pretty much got what you need. Do you have some 3% h202?

[Rock.Steady]

whats the zymme for?
cant i get the peroxide at wallys?

[Weedhound]

Yeah the 3% you can buy anywhere.....but if you buy and use a zyme produt you shouldn't use both so my fault for mentioning both products.....its one or the other (cannazyme is much more expensive than peroxide)

[SnSstealth]

sorry to infringe on this thread...ok...question for the pro's here...kinda need this answer in the next day or 2...im gonna do some good pruning few days before i go into flowering....few fan leaves, some underdeveloped sidebranches, and top a few more....should i do it all at once, or 2 or 3 sessions....whould i do it right before induction of flowering?...same night?...week before?....gimme some ideas guys...

whiskeytango

[Weedhound]

Stealth i'm going to go answer that q on your thread.

Rock....TRUE LEAVES FOR GOD SAKE???? How's your new job doing? When are you going to transplant?

[Rock.Steady]

WH, its been 9 days since i put the bean in the rooter.

i did not do my normal germ-wet paper thing. so, from bean to sprout in 7 days.
there are only lil sprouts of the 1st real leaves, still in the center, barely out yet. i check everyday.
this may be a good thing.
i think better to wait for weekend, ill have time.:cool:

new job is cool, but kickin my butt, early mornings(i hate) and most of day on feet(im used to an office for many yrs) but, its cool. i think itll work out, at least for a while till i figure out if i should stay or look further.;)

[Weedhound]

Well I have one coming up right now under a cfl and if it doesn't have true leaves pretty quick the rest of the seeds are going into the trash.

I have a BAD feeling about these seeds.....hopefully it's just some SNL x NH paranoia. Usually when I sprout seeds I can see the true leaves right away....this is what is normal to me and these seeds have NOT been acting normally for the most part imo. Hopefully it's NOT an issue due to the reverse.

[Rock.Steady]

,,,,, the rest of the seeds are going into the trash. ......

ummm, no. i will give them a home:wtf:

[Rock.Steady]

ok, this would be day 4 or 5 technically

in the group shot its left side, middle, u can only see top of dome on bubbler.

[Weedhound]

SHE HAS LEAVES!!!!! She has leaves....she has leaves........:thumbsup::thumbsup:

You have NO IDEA how relieved I am that the seeds are good....the SNL x NH has become my absolute FAVORITE (so far) and I have shared a few with others and I'm VERY happy the seeds are viable.

WHEW!

Thanks Rock. ;)

[Weedhound]

So when are you going to put her in?

[Rock.Steady]

SHE HAS LEAVES!!!!! She has leaves....she has leaves........:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Thanks Rock. ;)

you are too funny!:S2:

i told u they were there, just super tiny.

remember, she has lil to no nutes, just a trace of ST in that bubbler, still no root out the bottom, which is approx same distance down, that she has grown up,,, umm,,, does that make sense:wtf:

i need to get the real halo-hardware. reverse engineering the halo is an exercise in mechanical engineering, that i havent had the patience for.
i cannot get an even dispersion around the halo. its always more at one area or another.
if i get one that i know works, ill have a model to go by.;)
with that said, i will finally be ready to do that move and a major renovation, saturday late into and thru sunday.

i would say, sunday latest, she gets to move in, for real.

how is your sprout?

[Weedhound]

She's almost upright as well and I'm pretty sure she has real leaves too.....I'm SO HAPPY!! She's number four in the soil in the last month you know. But she's doing very well under her cfl (your suggestion) and I think she'll be the one to grow well in soil and be a good clone mommy. :thumbsup:

Believe me....while I know you can build it....just spend the $15 to buy the drip ring setup.....it's worth every penny. ;)

[Weedhound]

Oh and she doesn't need a dome Rock; they don't need all that humidity like clones do. How are you watering her btw?

[Rock.Steady]

well, its a vented dome, holes drilled in top, doesnt get really humid.
i tried with it off yesterday and it looked wilty, so i popped it back on.
its watering from underneath, thru the bottom of the dixie cup.
its on bubblin the same 18 hrs the lites r on.

i dunno, first time tried like this.
its an experiment, kinda.

[Rock.Steady]

im glad urs is coming along also.
and real happy the cfl's seem to help.

i dunno, i think it was u who once said something about 'blinding lil babies w too much lite'. i think sprouts are more sensitive than clones.

for example, see the blue russian thread,,, for a clone update.;)

[Weedhound]

then think you might have a watering isse.....you shouldn't need any sort of dome for a seedling.

[Rock.Steady]

i can try watering it normal, just havent tried yet.

its possible the water doesnt go high enough, or maybe i was just sketchy.
we'll get it changed tomorow, and then i should have the other things ready too,.

[Weedhound]

You could also go ahead and put her in the setup and just hand water her until you get your drip system set up.....either way is fine.

[Rock.Steady]

actually, the hton didnt stabilize yet.

im not sure what im gonna do. i may have to get something else at the dro-shop.:wtf:

[Weedhound]

I hate that shit. Something like vermeculite or perlite (i'd probably go with the first one) should work well on quick notice. DONT get rockwool......trust me. ;)
Higromite will work as well but has to rinsed of the dust. ....

Well she can just hang in her other spot then until you are ready. :)

[Rock.Steady]

ok, bad news folks.
looks like i drowned it.

i picked up the contraption today to look for roots and when i tilted it, its head bent n flopped over.
it was soaked.

i had the bubbler goin with the lights.
obviously thats too much.

im learning, i guess.:wtf:

on the upside, when i was at the dro shop i got some grodan macro plugs.
so i can put sprouts in them directly or cuttings.

ill modify an ice cube tray and use that with them.

any opinons on the grodan plugs?

so now the question is - to sprout another, or just take a russian clone?

or, maybe sprout one of these lil surprises i got last night:cool:

i have a very cool friend who gave me a couple packs of white widow femd, and arjans strawberry haze femd.
plus i still have the SNLxNH femd. not to mention some more russians

what should i do?:wtf:

[Weedhound]

Your call but I personally like that SNL x NH.....I think you are MUCH better off starting in some sort of starter plug but I'm not familiar with that particular brand. Either way, clone or seed.....the plug will make things much easier.

Treat it like a soil thing and water like you would normally....that's what I do with my rapid rooters.

I definitely DONT recommend taking something out of soil and putting it in hydro if that's what you are thinking. Just be problems waiting to happen imo.

PS.....Sounds exactly like what happened to my clones. I soaked them. :(

Also....be ready with your setup running and going when she sprouts so you can move her right away.

[Rock.Steady]

actually, i was thinking of cloning the russians in the bunker.
they are pretty big, i even moved one in with Galina.

I can sprout another SNL, i'll do it the way i know how, and then move to the plugs when they sprout.
this will give me more time to set up properly.
i been kinda short on time lately.

[Weedhound]

In thinking a clone might be easier in the system than a seedling....but nothing that's been growing in the dirt. My hydro guy STRONGLY frowns on moving things from soil to hydro and feels its a freebie breeding ground for any germs etc in your soil.

[Rock.Steady]

no, u already warned about no soil -> hydro. i wont.
i was thinkin the bunker team.

i can move them upstairs to flower and the second they show fem, i can take a cut reveg it and bang.

no?

[Rock.Steady]

ok, time for a project update worthy of noting.
the hydroton is still climbing every day.
i called another dro shop looking for a diff medium and got to talkin to this dude.
he asked why, and all.
then we started talking about my water.

when i rinsed the red dust outta the hydroton, it was with water straight outta the tap, and lots of it.
he suspects i have a chlorine residue on the media.

i got a big ss pot i use for corn on the cob,
im gonna go boil me some water and cook out the chrloine.
back in a bit.:cool:

[Weedhound]

That won't fix it......I swear i'm going to pop you. Now if you listen to ME instead of someone else who doesn't even know you we can get you going or we can fool around with all this silliness and wasted time.

What are you using to drop the ph? Ph down? Pour a BUNCH of it in there......ph it to about 4 for a day or two. You have to check and adjust it twice a day. Stir the stuff and keep it mixed. Or go buy some vermeculite or higromite.

PLEASE PLEASE STOP GETTING INFO FROM A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE at least without asking if it might be a good idea or not or I'm pretty sure we are just going to have one problem after another here and another long long grow.

I think you'd have been better off putting the seedling in your set up (as suggested hint hint) than leaving it in the bubbler as was not suggested hint hint. Despite the fact that your hydroton isn't ready it would have been better to work around that issue imo.

PS.....there's no chlorine in RO water and still hydroton issues so that doesn't sound like an answer to me.

:wtf:

[Rock.Steady]

ok, well i didnt do it anyways, the stupid faucet needed parts and i been at the store. now its late, my sink is broke,

but if i put a bunch of it in there itll be ruby red for days?

ive already made it red for like 10 hrs at a clip


fine i just threw in about 1/8 the bottle.

[Weedhound]

Rock when you first get your seedling in the system I would like you to use a cup like this with the bottom cut off.....the splashing from the dripping will make the tiny leaves wet and they'll burn. You can take it off after the seedling gets some height.

[Rock.Steady]

ironically, i was thinking about the 'splash factor' recently and have a question.

what about having a layer of media over the ring?

the ring kinda, slightly buried.

is that allowed? a bad idea?

[Weedhound]

You are the only one in the world who would ask that question Rock.......seriously......I've never heard or thought about it myself.

DONT!! I have a feeling the issue would something about oxygenation and perhaps Rhizome could explain the why's and wheres. So no.

But....THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for asking and not just "trying it and seeing" I consider that a HUGE step forward. :thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

ok, gotcha.

i think i should have 1 or both setups running test-water by tomorow night.

[hydrocannabis]

hey rock wsup. I wanted to stop by and wanted to wish U good luck on getting UR hydro system up and running.

and as for my DRO plants they have around 2 more months to go.:D
and they R 3 weeks flower but there flowers look like suger dipped buds this soon.:jointsmile: :D :stoned: :stoned: :hippy:
I can't wate to harvest these.


and once U do get the hang of growing hydroponicly it is fun as hell and faster. in my opion.

and I'll smoke a bowl to celebrate the fact that U can do this cuz we all here at canna com have fath in U and all dro growers on here that they can grow there dizzy flowers H-ponicly.

my 2 cents.:thumbsup:

:rasta: :rastasmoke:

[Rock.Steady]

thanks hydro.
i think me and weedhound will work out the bugs offline mostly then i'll resume the log.

we're almost there:)

[SnSstealth]

keep it up rock....experimentation is what we grow for;)
WT

[Weedhound]

We ARE almost there....I'm getting excited. :D

[MVP]

Good thread. Just remember to follow your coach. And there is only room for one COACH on this team.

Can't wait to see the posts. If I have suggestions I'll post them here for Coach Hound to review and approve if appropriate...

[Rock.Steady]

ok, been about another week, and i want to check in.

1- hydroton did submit and ph stopped climbing.
its possible part of the problem was that i didnt change the water, just let it sit and sit. kept correcting, but it still climbed.

i have sprouted 2 more SNLxNH beans and had them in these grodan's plugs for a few days.

i have made personal decision that i need more verticle space in flower. so, the veg bunker had to relocate. i am going with a semi-verticle veg cab.

so, welcome to the new veg locker.

these are the 2 SNL's. i still need another pump, tomorow.

WH, you said better to get them in early and hand water if needed.
ok, thats what im doin,
these are ready.
the plugs stay wet a long time.

ok, comments?

[Weedhound]

They are so CUTE!!! Put them in gently....I take a cup of water (from one of the buckets) and keep it sitting with them....drip water VERY CAREFULLY (after checking ph) on the little plugs. You may only have to water once a day for a few days. It's VERY wise to check and adjust ph any and every time you add something to the plants...even that cup of water that you know the ph was correct on before. Just don't let the plugs completely dry out. You won't have to use the drip ring for several days.

Your drip ring setup looks good. Good work there. How tall is your flowering space?

[Rock.Steady]

yes, i was careful placing them and filling in the pebbles.

i made up a separate container with ph corrected water and poured around the area and down thru to the plugs.

i should be able to finish the final tweeks to the whole system and new setup in the next couple days after work.

as to my flower space, well, i'm eliminating the veg cabinet, which acted like a shelf. with that gone, my flower area is now about 6ft max if i leave them on the floor.
so, new flower capacity is 6ft hi, 32 inch wide, 4-5ft deep, with a 250hps.

my new veg cab is limited, so ill just have to move them sooner. i guess:wtf:

[Weedhound]

They won't need a ton of room in veg....just in flower and it sounds like you have it.

Water them as needed by hand. This way you can also control the ph very easily since you'll be gone at work all day. At this age a few hours at an abnormal ph can be too much.

Rock watch them carefully.....if necessary when they get a little bigger set your timer to water them once in the middle of the day while you are gone. This would be in about 3-4 days approx.....also depending on how fast your r-wool dries up.

[Weedhound]

Ps....make sure when you use the drip ring system to water them you have their little cups on to avoid getting splashed. We are all human......BUT....things like that CAN be the death of your little seedling at this point. Hydro is fairly unforgiving. ;)

[Rock.Steady]

ok, been a while, time for an update.

things got a lil wierd cause of the rockwool plugs.
they stayed wet a long time and slowed things down.
fine for the new rooting clones but not really for this hydro setup.

upon reviewing progress and chatting with my coach, couple days ago i decided to remove the rockwool.
upon removal, i saw the one SNL sprout had so much root that i didnt have the heart to toss it, so i took all the rockwool and replaced with a perlite core to my hydroton pebble-filled basket.

the other SNL sprout was definately struggling, so i did decide to end that one. that left me with an open bucket setup which i moved the bigger "Maria" (blue russian) clone, after carefully removing the rockwool and replacing with perlite.
the 2nd Maria clone had wool removed and into dirt.
both clones had rockin roots!

so, the landscape in the veg cab has changed a lil.

bottom left is SNLxNL sprout in hydro
bottom right is Maria clone in hydro
bottom center is Galina week-6-flwr clone, recovering better.
top left is Arjan's Strawberry Haze (ASH) sprout, in dirt (log coming soon)
top center is Maria clone in dirt
top right is ASH sprout #2 in dirt



I have had the hydro watering on-1hr, off-3hrs during daylite
1 hour on in middle of darktime.
lighting schedule is 18-6
this week i let the system start slow while i had no time to dedicate to it.
the ph has slowly crept up each day to about 6.5-7
i keep knocking it down, when i can, usually nite.
it has been warm in the cab, still trying to get circulation issues straight.



on my hydros.........

so far only a trace of superthrive only.
when should i start giving some nutes.???
i think the buffers in the nutes should help the ph stay stable

[Rock.Steady]

few more pics

[Weedhound]

You're on your own with the soil ones.....the hydros.....shit I'm on a temporary computer here and can't upload and download certain stuff....there's a hidden pop up blocker somewhere that I can't find and disable. How are the hydros growing? I can see the clone pretty well but not the seedling really. I think your ph issues are both hydroton and lack of buffer related.

If they are growing well you should go to 24 hour watering and see how they do. It certainly wouldn't hurt to change them out to some fresh water and a drop of ST....they like additions and fresh things. I would like to see you have them on 24 hour watering before upping nutes so I would use this time you have on the weekend to troubleshoot your 24 hour drip. (Pssss....you can go to 2 drops/gal ST and still be ok I think.)

[Weedhound]

Also good to change out a awhile because you've been adding ph down etc....and that will build up in your water as well and cause problems at higher doses.

[Rock.Steady]

i'll put water out to breathe and change it tonight.
i forgot to refill my jugs last time.:wtf:

[Weedhound]

Well I don't live in your area but I've never let water sit out in regards to the chlorine and my hydro guy doesn't think you need to either.....a small amount of chlorine can actually be beneficial....(SMALL AMOUNT!!!!!!) according to him and I've read that elsewhere too.

[Rock.Steady]

i remember when we tested my water stability that it was more stable after sitting out for 24 hrs.
knocking down the Ph everyday is getting old fast. kinda like the way u like plants that grow slow.
also, lately my water smells more chlorine-ish.

[Weedhound]

Sure does get old fast doesn it? That's why I hate hydroton.

[Weedhound]

And yes.....I do dislike trying to grow sickly plants in crappy conditions.

[SnSstealth]

welcome back rock!!! lookin good...cant wait for that ASH log!!!....been interested in that strain for a while!!!
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Rock.Steady]

thanks whisky,
yeah, been a manic schedule.
this is a hydro growlog (if i can swing it) and those are soil and will definately get their own log. but, with the adjustments made, i figured id throw a few pics out there.

one of the writeups i found online about the ASH had a few interesting notations.
The Strawberry Haze's buds have the aroma of an almost candy-like strawberry, and her smoke is sweet-tasting with an upbeat high.
Strawberry Haze performs best and delivers the utmost in strawberry flavor when grown in soil. Hydro systems can be used to increase the yield, but the taste is less sweet.
this last note is the main reason im going soil on this one without any hesitation.
tried 2 beans, got 2 fem sprouts, :woohoo:
and now, ive got the verticle room these may need, available.:pimp:
log coming soon.:cool:

[SnSstealth]

sweet!....good to see your still goin at the hydro thing....better man than me, lol...i will be a very hard switch from being dirty, then again i said i would never waste seeds trying LED..hmmm..I'll be hanging around to see how ya do on dro...and DEFINITELY waiting for that ASH log...chop chop!!!....j/k

:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Weedhound]

What's going on over there Rock?

[Rock.Steady]

update
slow moving, maybe, but, right now, it is what it is.

a few days ago i added a trace of grow nutes to help stabilize the ph. i think it helped.
today just nudged the ph down a lil and added about 1/2 gal water n some grow nutes, less than half strength, to both. Will prolly change the water in a couple days as a maintenance precaution., every week or 2, right?

i did notice a lil frosty kinda lookin residue on some of the rocks lower in the clone basket. didnt get pics, im thinkin might be some of the perlite dustin and movin with the moisture, or maybe some of those salt buildups i read about here n there.
either way, ill just keep an eye on it for now.

while checkin under the baskets....
look at the center of the clone basket, yep, thats a lil root, approx 3-4 inches growth would b needed to poke out the bottom, so, i guess its doin ok.:D

i did bump the watering schedule up last week to 2.5 hrs on, 1.5 hrs off, on constant rotation.
seeing todays growth, decided to bump the watering a lil more, now 3 on, 1 off, on constant rotation.
lighting is still 18-6


this far, i think i woulda been better prepared to deal with the monitoring/maintenance aspect of hydro better months ago when i had a more flexible schedule. i'm gonna try to make this work, but given my actual freetime, i think soil grows may be better suited to my current personal availability, but i'll try.;)

[Weedhound]

I have to agree that circumstances were quite different when you started until now. That all from ph struggle? I hate that hydroton I swear.

Well let me know what you decide.......I'm good with whatever way you end up going with it. ;)

[Rock.Steady]

ok, made lil improvement on splash shields.

tested ph today after adding about 1/3 dose of nutes yesterday.
ph is tween 5 and 6

figured id check out this new toy the TDS pen.

my PPM was 320 in the SNL sprout and 325 in the BR clone.

so, what do these numbers mean to me?

drip is on 3hr, off 1 hr on rotation.

looks like they may be perkin up a lil, no?

WH, suggestions?

[Weedhound]

Quite honestly I think they both look good.....that clone is going crazy and your seedling has caught up to my two size-wise it seems. :thumbsup: I highly recommend a full on water change to new nutes.

Part of your ppm is whatever is in your tap water. What I'd like you to do.....when you have time is take some tap water and add 100 ppm of Flora Grow to your tap water and then change your resevoirs out to this. Keep ph the same as always. (It won't take much so add slowly....) You'll see them start to grow faster as you increase nutes......they can go to 24hr drip too.....they're plenty big enough. ;)

[Weedhound]

They really DO look good Rock. Props to you for your hard work....and even more so because of your 6-day a week work schedule. Well done! :thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

according to post 4, my tapwater was tested at 240, so, i guess i raised it to 100 last night.
i'll change it out tomorrow after work.

how long u think should i wait before i turn the clone?
ironically, the clone in soil is the same size.
they are runners it looks like.
i turned maria in week 4.5 and she's doin awesome.
check out the pics in the blue russian thread:thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

ok, kinda didnt have any time earlier in week, so, been lettin these just kinda simmer.

end of week 4 veg.

finally changed out water today, 4 full weeks on same 1st water.
ph was lil low.
dumped it.

MII-
2.5 gal water
1 drop ST
1.3 tsp FN

H2O = 120 ppm
+ST = 135 ppm
+FN = 525 ppm

ph adjusted to 5-6

root growth is cool.:cool:
turned on airstone.:)

SNLxNH-
2.5 gal water
1 drop ST
1 tsp FN

H2O = 139 ppm
+ST = 147 ppm
+FN = 375 ppm

ph adjusted to 5-6

no root growth showing yet:(


that is all for now.:wtf:

[Weedhound]

Ok...looking good.........you know I'm going to scowl about no water change.........you got away with it but certainly may not in the future and these kids can crash fast.....fair warning.

They DO look quite good....don't worry about the roots from the seedling......they'll show up before long. What size were the ones you have flowering now when you turned them? Bigger or smaller than these?

[Rock.Steady]

i knew u would 'make the face', which is 1 reason i hesitated posting.
i knew i was risking by not checking in, but had to rely on karma, only so much time and energy in each 24 hr clip.
i needed to give time to the Russian crew.
i fully accept that i have not provided 100% best conditions or attention. so, i'll accept slower progress. i think itll be great just to get a feel for the way this whole hydro thing works. i can always take more clones from the veg crew (and that is the plan), when they get turned. (continue the cycle;))

i figured a lil more nutes to the clone would be ok as its more mature chemically and bigger physically.

as to 'turning schedule', the mom to this clone (Maria) was forced into flower lil early (mid-week 5) and showed preflowers in 5 days (early in what woulda been week 6 veg).

this clone (MII) was cut 4 weeks ago (when pre-flwr 1st showed on mom, and had approx 1-1.5 wks in a soggy plug, then i removed rockwool and put in the bucket w-perlite instead)

now, altho we are close to a similar pace when compared on the grow calendar,,,this clone is lil smaller size than the mom when pushed to flower. and im glad, cause i dont really 'feel' the spare room in the flower room. i wanna stay focussed on whats in there now.

I am considering topping everyone in veg to slow them down a lil.

i need the monsters to finish before these make the move.

[Weedhound]

Well as long as you understand that topping isn't really going to "slow them down" as much as MAKE THEM BIGGER LATER!!!! :woohoo:

I'm not bitching at you Rock (:wtf:) but I want you to be aware of cause and effect........hydro isn't nearly as forgiving as soil. It's actually called a "heads up" but I know you aren't big on those from me anyway. Four weeks just seems like a darn long time not to find an hour to change the plants' water.

[Rock.Steady]

on request, an update.

been maintaining ph and nutes.

few days ago, after adding nutes,,,

SNLxNH
815 PPM

M2
1105 PPM

changing water today (10 days since last change)

tomorow starts week 7 veg.

i think they are both ready to turn, but,,,,,, the flower room is now a jungle room:wtf:
will be at least 2-3 wks before anyone can get in there, and even then, its only a maybe,,,,,
i guess its a problem more people wish they had to deal with???:wtf:

see last pic and u'll understand.

[Weedhound]

Good job!!! They look great Rock! I'm impressed with your hydro.....I guess you learned by osmosis or something. :thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

Thanks:)

[Rock.Steady]

The changing of the water,,,and some kool pix:thumbsup:

note-the ph has been very stable once its set.


M2 (Maria clone)
2.5 gal H2O (130 ppm)
1 drop ST (+10 ppm)
4 tsp FNG (1270 ppm)

ph bumped up to 5-6.

starting week 7 veg, i need to turn her, but have no room in the flwr room!!!:eek:

look at those roots!:D
i have no idea what i am doing:jawdropper:

[Rock.Steady]

SNLxNH (sour northern lights X nevilles haze)

all the numbers are the same, excpt the final ppm.
I nudged the nutes a touch on this one.

1300 ppm.

roots finally made it to edge of the basket.:D
will prolly need to turn on airstone this week.:cool:

[Weedhound]

Well you're a for sure grower now. Those plants looks great Rock. Really! Couldn't make them look any better myself right now. Excellent work. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[hydrocannabis]

Well you're a for sure grower now. Those plants looks great Rock. Really! Couldn't make them look any better myself right now. Excellent work. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


I agree with the hound all the way.:thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

WH, Hydro.
thanks:)

[Weedhound]

So Rock what's your thoughts on the hydro experience so far?

[Rock.Steady]

gotta say i'm very undecided.

certain considerations come into play.

-maybe i coulda done a more aggressive grow, had i more spare time to monitor n adjust.
-the media was a PITA to get neutralized, but maybe part was my not changing the water often enuf during soaking.
-i shoulda used different rooter substance, wool sux.

-in comparison, I have another clone (same age) which is kickin ass in soil. approx 1 wk more progression at this point.
-in a somewhat unfair comparison (diff strain) the other 2 seedlings are kickin this hydro seedlings butt.

-additionally, i cannot get a fair 'feel' rite now cause theres no room in flwr room to move and see results. (flwr room is booked solid), if i could, i'd switch to flwr now.

other thoughts.
-this weekly changing of the water is sucky labor, in comparison, 1 pot change to 5 gal, although a big job, is easier with dirt, overall IMHO.

i'm not 'turned off' on hydro, yet.
i do want to see how these finish out.
to be fair, i will give it another try.

i'm fairly secure i've got the soil thing down solid at this point.

[wman44]

loving this thread rock!
as i traditionally grow in soil and have been thinkin of switching to hydro for my indoor operations...also your using the nutes my friends have suggested.
keep us posted on those girls!

[Weedhound]

Interesting.....sounds like a fair assessment. It's odd that your plants are doing better in soil than in hydro....but....well.....you're Rock. :D

[Rock.Steady]

ok, looks like more frequent checking will be needed from here on out. this may get tricky.:wtf:


IMO they started lookin a lil 'funny'. uneven coloring in newer leaves.
i figured maybe PH. nope, still about mid 5's. should i raise it a lil???
then it occurred to me, maybe PPM due to evaporation rates?
i remember WH and Rhiz discussing max PPM shouldnt be more than 1300 or 1500, something like that.

so i check PPM.

M2- 1580 ppm
siphoned off a lil more and added 1 gal plain water.
930 ppm.

SNL- 1560 ppm
siphoned off lil more and added 1 gal plain water.
1080 ppm.

its also a lil warm in the cab, but not alot can b done about it right now. possibly considering just changing the bulbs and timers in the grow cab and convert to red cfl's and at least get flowering started.
the downside there is cannot clone or start any new work for the next wave until can rearrange and get some moved out for real.
still lookin at about 2 weeks b4 room in flower room,
life could b worse:wtf:

btw- i feel they have mostly caught up to the soil-grow comparison. about even with the other clone of the same strain.
I'm guessin this must be about when they kick into a faster gear.

the visuals below.:cool:

[Rock.Steady]

Interesting.....sounds like a fair assessment. It's odd that your plants are doing better in soil than in hydro....but....well.....you're Rock. :D

gave it alotta thought b4 answering.
wanted to be fair, and guess my backround helped in the analytical portion of this evaluation.:cool:

i was starting to think may be a bit odd, but,i did kinda try to slow them a lil so i could get used to the new routine. so, maybe its me.


unsolicited product review-
GH Flora Nova 1 part grow nutes are very easy for a newbie to hydro.
simple, 1 part and the ph buffers hold solid once PH is set to your liking.:cool:

[hydrocannabis]

I loved switching to hydro. I find there is less bugs on the plant.

btw UR plants look killer.
and yah this would be about the time I'd start flowering.

heres to some good luck for both of us on hydro.:thumbsup: :jointsmile:

[macro]

Looking good rock! I havent really read through your whole thread but I skimmed it a little :D
Youre at 1600PPM in veg? I usually keep it sub-1000 until flowering but hey if it's working for you, I can't argue with results.

Whats the hardness of your water?
Does your TDS meter measure EC (electrical conductivitty(?)) too? My TDS meter has long since been broken but I think the salt remnants from the nutrients will register as TDS and throw off the actual nutrient amount in your system based on TDS.

If your PH is in the mid 5s you'll be OK since it will creep up. Just remember you want the vial to look like pee.

The brown roots (dont know if youve solved this yet, i'm a little behind) could be a sign of light leakage into your res. Looks like algae to me, or if youre using organic nutes residue from that. Stick a capful of hydrogen peroxide 3% in your res and if it's algae it will destroy it pretty immediately. I've also read that hydrogen peroxide isnt especially harmful for your plants, it's never harmed mine, and it seems like it's actually beneficial.

[SnSstealth]

what is that?!?!....coming back to the dirty side rock?...lol...plants looking lovely man..
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Weedhound]

Rock I'd back way down on your numbers....you seem to be having some sort of lockout thing going on.....I'd take them back down to 1000 as macros suggested.

Perhaps its your lighting.....but alot of the leaves seem darker in the middle than on the edges. I would seriously doubt a deficiency......especially at those numbers so I would suspect too much of one thing is starting to lock something else out.

PS...your funky edges also suggest overnute as well.

Good luck.

[Rock.Steady]

Hydro-thanks dude,

macro- thanks, but, if u pee orange, id see a dr..also, the GH FloraNova has kept the ph remarkably stable compared to other results ive read about. i havent really needed to adjust. as to the browning, no light leaks, i sprayed it all black, i thought it could be from the nutes because the nutes are terribly dark. dont know if they are organic, didnt read that part of the bottle. i might toss a lil peroxide, if recommended by my coach.

whiskey- i never 'left' soil, this is more like 'test driving a 2nd car';)

[Weedhound]

If you are using a zyme product skip the H202 otherwise its ok to use at 2 tsp gallon every other day to help the roots.

I didn't read your post before I posted....you pretty much already got to the answer by yourself.....props my man. :thumbsup:

I really do think you were born for hydro. ;)

PS....once you drop back numbers everything should begin to restabilize.

[macro]

lol maybe not THAT orange, but THAT orange on the little ph meter is 5.0, we're aiming for 5.8

I'm not sure about the GH Flornova, I almost picked it up. But the PH really won't be fluctuating that much until your into flowering.

As for clones? I think they're ready age-wise but you may want to wait until it looks a little healthier.

I second WH on the nutrient concentration drop, you may want to kick down to 600-1000 PPM at their current stage.

Also did you check your res after you painted it for light leaks? I painted one of mine black w/spray paint and held it too a light and it leaked like mad. Algae doesn't need very much light to grow and can choke your roots

[Weedhound]

I agree about the spray paint....I did a layer and it sucked big time so I ended up redoing EVERYTHING with dark tape on my hydro buckets as well.

[Rock.Steady]

time for a water change.

M-II
Pre-change
1270 ppm (climbed again?):wtf:
PH 5.1, (went down?)

changed out-
2.7 gal H2O (190ppm)
+ drop ST (200ppm)
+ 2.5 tsp FN Grow (485ppm)

I also added 4 tsp H3O in case the roots needed it.
I also taped the tubs as a precaution.

SNLxNH
Pre-change
1340 ppm (climbed again?):wtf:
PH 5.1 (went down)

for some reason SNL's final PPM is 760.:wtf:
I thought I did the same things. maybe a lil less water, its wasnt an exact measurement.

I also gave these kids a Liquid Light shower.:jawdropper:
i had some left over from the 2 youngsters in flower.

what do you think of Maria-II's roots?

[Weedhound]

Time to add a zyme product......don't mix them but it should become part of your regimen at this stage.

Hydroguard is one thought if you can't get cannazym or sensizym. You should try and untangle that ball of roots when you can. How is the areation in your rez's?

Edit: By don't mix them I meant the peroxide and a zyme product. Sorry about that.

[Rock.Steady]

whats the zymme for?

ill try to untangle tomorow, took day off:jointsmile:

usin 6 inch stone, its bubblin:wtf:

[Weedhound]

it will help keep your roots from getting....DISEASED! (Ps....nice side effect.....helps keep your ph stable)

Alternatively you can use H202 every other day but I like the zyme products better.....encourages the shedding of older, dead roots that tend clog things up as well.

[macro]

FN is an Organic product isn't it? That could be what's causing the brownin of the roots.. otherwise it looks like root rot.

maybe your roots are choked by algae or disease (wrapping your res in black duct tape helps prevent light leaks in the res)

At this stage throw in a zyme product and hope for the best, make sure you remove as much as the dead roots from the water as possible to prevent further problems

flower them soon they grow HUGE in hydro

[Rock.Steady]

a couple weeks ago, I gave what i thought was a light dose of Liquid Light.
well, everyone in veg reacted poorly.
as u mite imagine the hydro's reacted worst.
discolored, wilted, curled and shrivled leaves.

I tried to give them a chance to recover but that wasnt happening.

I decided to clone out both plants completely.

i dug out the 1st prototype for the clone-bubbler I made for Weedhound, made a few modifications and decied to put it into service.

cuttings-
8 of M-II (1-8) (blue russian)
7 of SNLxNH

cut, scarified, hormoned, bubblin 1 hr on-1 hr off (24 hr cycle)

[Rock.Steady]

well, unfortunately they all fell over wilted and shrivled to nothing overnight.
it was a 50/50 as to if any would survive.

ok, what was learned?

-hydro will require a decent level of attention (time is precious lately and contributed substatially to this failure)
-need better 'starter' media, rockwool sucks.
-prepping hydroton might be a pain, but, part may have been 'user error'
-increased space n improved ventilation may be required in this latest version of the veg cabinet.
-Liquid Light should be avoided in veg until its effects are better understood in regard to this particular setup.

anything missed?

no new hydro experiments until further notice,,,
that means,,, back to soil. <-(thats for u Whiskey;))

[Weedhound]

I WOULD lower your numbers if you do more hydro.....I seriously think that's more your problem than the LL......unless......did your soil ones crash as well?

I agree about the hydro demanding more attention than you can give with you job.....honestly not sure if I would try doing hydro with your schedule even with all the practice I've had. :cool:

Hydroton sucks the big one.....operator error or no. :wtf:

[Weedhound]

Just went out and checked one of my plants and I'm giving up the Liquid Light as well......completely. Just one too many reactions ont too many times. I'm going back to my VHO. :wtf:

[Technique2]

Dudes..... it may be because I stoned right now:smokin:, but this was a very informative and entertaining thread to read through. Rock, sorry for your losses, sucks to lose them at THAT stage.

I am curious as well on the soilers.

WH,

nice job with the insights, guidance, and constructive criticisms of Mr Rock:thumbsup:. It seems there is a VERY HIGH LEVEL of mutual respect between you, and eventually YOU WILL WIN!

All in all lots of information and "THINGS TO LEARN FROM" in this post.:thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

WH, Tech, thanks.

some more reflection and answers.

yes, spare time is very limited and a far stricter schedule than 6-9 months ago, when this idea first arose.
yes, the numbers got too high, was reading ur hydro guide but got ahead of schedule. also didnt realize more attention would be needed upon changes in evap and consumption rates (seems the PPM gets all wacked as soon as evap occurs)
they seemed to be more stable, even if a lil slow, when the numbers were lil lower than actually shoulda been. this woulda been a better result than the crash.
as WH has said countless times: "with hydro, less is better, its not very forgiving".
well, mistakes happen, oops.

Q-did the soils crash too?
A-yes, reacted bad, curled, shrivled, discolored, but seem to have recovered slowly while in the flwr room, distant from the light, moved about 10 days ago. a decision needed to be made, the 2 soils moved due to smaller pots and area needed.

WH-
as to the Liquid Light, I am becoming more convinced that its simply way too freakin powerful. Notice all Opie's comments come down to about 1/2 strength and good/happy results. i'm thinking, in smaller quantities, cut it even more than 1/2.
maybe the Penetrator has an effect? i dunno???
Again, back to your: "less is better"
i still wonder if the cfls are a factor, even with your comment to contrary positive results w/cfl.

as to my friend Weedhound, what can i say? been with me since i arrived. helped, coached, put up with me bein a blockhead on occassion, etcetcetc.

a good friend I'm glad to have met.:)


-edit- and after a years worth of all these lil posts, colas 3 inches thick:wtf:

[Weedhound]

Yes you've finally hit the "sick cola" syndrome.

Rock's been a challange....:S2: but I can't seem to stay away......at the vey least he comes up with stuff I would never have thought of LOL!

I will say I'm very impressed with your try at hydro Rock.....even though it didn't end well I admire the fact that you took it on and gave it your best shot.....especially considering your schedule. I think if you had (a fair amount more) free time you'd be good at it but your life style just doesn't work for it right now. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Yeah my SNL x NH had a nasty reaction to less than 1/2 strength (first time I've used it) and I'm realizing why I'm getting less yields here.....stopped using my VHO and went with the LL but skipped alot of doses due to issues (mostly small but they add up) so I'm booting it to the curb.

PS....Rock I think it's more an LL thing than a light thing....and possibly certain strains are more affected. I sprayed three plants.....ASH, SNL x NH, and CC (cc is a week younger too) and two did great and one got burned. 1 reaction out of three is too much for me......never had the issue with VHO. ;)

[Rock.Steady]

WH, thanks for the kind words and yes, i agree, if i could truely invest the needed time, i think hydro would be good.
the up-side is ive gotten fairly sure of myself with the soil meathod, and given my schedule, it works even better:)

as to my 'sick cola syndrome', good news, careful exam shows all the moldy shiat dried up and went away while hanging in a warm dry place:thumbsup:.
i think i caught it at the very beginning.
i did wiggle, twist and look fairly deep into those colas.

so,
2 ASH in flwr (2wks and 5wks)...
2 blue russian clones in flwr (2wks and 5wks)...
and nothin in veg:(

plans?
sure i got some plans.
definately 1 SNLxNH will be sprouted and i will clone a couple off that before flowering.

but now the dilemma, maybe YOU all can help???

what else to sprout?
here are the choices:
(all are fem'd)

white widow
dutch dragon
white berry
blue berry
master kush

please vote 4 ur fave.
voting will be for the next 3 days.

help a stoner decide:jointsmile:




btw-
keep ur fingers crossed, had a great interview the other day and hopefully will be able to get back to my actual profession soon.

[Weedhound]

My vote for you would be Dutch Dragon.....easiest grower of the three considering your work schedule....and that would be a GREAT plant for something like a port o scrog.

Second choice would be the whiteberry....then Master Kush (the MK's can be a bit fussy as seedlings then seem to do really well later)

I found Blueberry to be kind of a pita and WW....VERY light feeder so a bit of a balancing act.

That is THIS reporter's opinion.....:D

[MVP]

Master Kush gets my vote. Actually I just got some Black Kush I want to try, and dammit if I could rep ya I'd do so with a gmail addy...

[SnSstealth]

i am SO a kush fan...I would love to see MK...I got Plan B Smashberry F2s going now...purple kush x blueberry:thumbsup:
and some SNLxNH as well...cant wait to see how different growers grow out this marvelous strain that seemed to find its way around:jointsmile::hippy:
whiskeytango