What scares you most about where the america is headed?

[Esaron]

Well, fascism may or may not be on the horizon, but there sure as hell are some scary things going on...

1. Why does AT&T want to know what you're downloading? - By Tim Wu - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2182152)

2. bit-tech.net | Why Web 2.0 will end your privacy (http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2006/06/03/web_2_privacy/)

3. The Plan to Replace the Dollar With the 'Amero' - HUMAN EVENTS (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15017)

4. VP Cheney makes strong pitch for telecom immunity (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080124-vp-cheney-makes-strong-pitch-for-telecom-immunity.html)

There are plenty more, but I think I'll leave em for the rest of you to complain about :thumbsup:

[Iguana]

Well, fascism may or may not be on the horizon, but there sure as hell are some scary things going on...

1. Why does AT&T want to know what you're downloading? - By Tim Wu - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2182152)

2. bit-tech.net | Why Web 2.0 will end your privacy (http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2006/06/03/web_2_privacy/)

3. The Plan to Replace the Dollar With the 'Amero' - HUMAN EVENTS (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15017)

4. VP Cheney makes strong pitch for telecom immunity (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080124-vp-cheney-makes-strong-pitch-for-telecom-immunity.html)

There are plenty more, but I think I'll leave em for the rest of you to complain about :thumbsup:

Scariest thing is our continued move left into socialism and a growing nanny state. Individualism being suppressed and communitarianism surging.

[psychocat]

The insane way in which the states believes itself to be the lawgivers of the world and it's willingness to sacrifice large groups of people to create a world in it's image. :D

[Markass]

Primarily, my children will one day read the history of american government, from the late seventeen hundreds when our constitution was written, and then I'll have to explain to them that the president can deceive the public and make his own rules and break whatever he wants to along the way

I'll have to educate my children on the deadly effects of tobacco and alcohol, and why nobody has died from marijuana ever, and why it's still against the law...which hopefully I wont have to do that by the time I have kids...definitely not if Ron Paul gets elected to run this country..

I just can't believe they can get away with doing so many things the public dislikes, with them being paid by us and representing the wishes of us..(at least supposed to be representing the wishes of us) but I think if that was the case bush would've been impeached long ago..

[ldg420]

nonsense:stoned:

[norkali]

What scares me the most is the thought of zero-hour.

What hell will I have to live through when the shit hits the fan?

Martial law? Take my guns away? Blackwater© looking after me? A "Pier 57" for me? No thanks.

Alternative? Well, that's what the 2nd amendment is for.

[Zimzum]

Police state tactics, socialism, and a collapse of our economy like that of the USSR

Reno 911 (The home game) (http://ksnydersj.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/reno-911-the-home-game/)

Immigration officials detaining, deporting American citizens (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/25392.html)

Grandmother Arrested At Drive-Thru While Waiting For Fries, Coffee (http://www.wftv.com/news/15098505/detail.html)

Predictions for 2008 (http://www.reason.com/news/show/124055.html)

[greenlotus]

Official use of torture is disheartening in amid the Stalinist type injunctions of the Patriot Act.

Rendition, black ops prisons.

It's like East Berlin under Putin, if you don't tell on your neighbor it's off to Gitmo.

This is not a test.

[angry nomad]

What scares me the most? Our country is devolving into fascism, and not many seem to know of give a fuck.

[THClord]

Fascism... and noone cares. The people who have been taught how wonderful the us constitution etc are, don't believe the evidence when they see it. The people who havn't been taught any of this simply don't care. It's like a planned divide between people. Divide and conquer by our own government on us.


The way this country is heading, I might move to Europe sometime in my life.....
... good thing I'm a dual citizen and I can work in all of the US and EU.

[8182KSKUSH]

I just read the title of the thread and am just replying with my first reaction so please keep that in mind.
There is nothing that scares me in America.
I can see TONS of things in OTHER countries that SCARE me I guess, but not really.
Why?
Because I am blessed enough to live in the greatest nation and civilization that there has ever been on the face of the earth EVER. At worst no matter how bad it gets, I know that I am better off than entire populations of other countries citizens!:thumbsup: I do not believe that our own government and SELVES are beyond criticiszm, and that we all can't be better. I do know that America is the "Promise Land". For all of the Radical American Left, please enlighten me as to where you think the best place to live is, and why you haven't just gone there? After all, it's not like you aren't free to just leave, and as I read in a prior post, "if a state legalized weed wouldn't you just move there?" Well, if we are sooooo bad and scary, and there are soooo many other better places, then why haven't we had a massive swell of people leaving the country? In fact, as I type this very second, more people are immigrating here legally than any other country in the world. Must be because it's sooo scary! Don't even mention the millions and millions that risk their lives coming illegally as well. So I guess what I am saying in short is, I don't accept the idea that it is scary here. I mean, I've never gone to the post office or DMV and had to change my pants because I was sooo scared of my government. Yeah there are scary things, but nothing that isn't just related to human society anywhere regardless of political boundries.:jointsmile:

[Zimzum]

Ah yes, the greatest nation on earth! WOOHOO! 8182KSKUSH I really hope that your wife/girlfriend/mother/sister never go through anything like this since you want to defend our "greatness".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWimXzEa9Xo

And for those who wish to do something about the video above please voice your opinions to:

Stark County Sheriff's Office
4500 Atlantic BLVD NE
Canton, Ohio 44705-4374
(330)/430-3800

[Innominate]

I just read the title of the thread and am just replying with my first reaction so please keep that in mind.
There is nothing that scares me in America.
I can see TONS of things in OTHER countries that SCARE me I guess, but not really.
Why?
Because I am blessed enough to live in the greatest nation and civilization that there has ever been on the face of the earth EVER. At worst no matter how bad it gets, I know that I am better off than entire populations of other countries citizens!:thumbsup: I do not believe that our own government and SELVES are beyond criticiszm, and that we all can't be better. I do know that America is the "Promise Land". For all of the Radical American Left, please enlighten me as to where you think the best place to live is, and why you haven't just gone there? After all, it's not like you aren't free to just leave, and as I read in a prior post, "if a state legalized weed wouldn't you just move there?" Well, if we are sooooo bad and scary, and there are soooo many other better places, then why haven't we had a massive swell of people leaving the country? In fact, as I type this very second, more people are immigrating here legally than any other country in the world. Must be because it's sooo scary! Don't even mention the millions and millions that risk their lives coming illegally as well. So I guess what I am saying in short is, I don't accept the idea that it is scary here. I mean, I've never gone to the post office or DMV and had to change my pants because I was sooo scared of my government. Yeah there are scary things, but nothing that isn't just related to human society anywhere regardless of political boundries.:jointsmile:

You speak more pride for America. Have you ever heard of Iceland? They have the best health care in the world.

How can you proclaim we live in the greatest civilization on the "face of the earth?" Statements like this have isolated us from the truth of our country. You are oblivious to the exploitation at the hands of the Western world. People across Africa and Southeast Asia are facing devastating conditions for the oil and resources that maintain Western economies. Do you know how much U.S. funds for war compared to funding the improvements for living conditions for the people the countries exploit? (Nigeria)

I don't need to list another example of American exploitation because they aren't hard to find if you turn off your television.

[psychocat]

If I were American I would be worried about the economy, the change in laws that allow stop and search based purely upon suspicion . The illegal means used by the US goverment to kidnap and imprison people without any thought for the constitution they profess to stand up for.

Glad I'm not American. :D

Worried that the UK is going to be too complacent and allow the same thing to happen there too.

[8182KSKUSH]

Ah yes, the greatest nation on earth! WOOHOO! 8182KSKUSH I really hope that your wife/girlfriend/mother/sister never go through anything like this since you want to defend our "greatness".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWimXzEa9Xo

And for those who wish to do something about the video above please voice your opinions to:

Stark County Sheriff's Office
4500 Atlantic BLVD NE
Canton, Ohio 44705-4374
(330)/430-3800

So what is your point exactly. Was it bad, yeah, do you or I know the whole story, no, ok so what? Guess who made the video? Guess what police usually do when you are a danger to yourself? The only thing that struck me as odd was the fact that there were male officers involved, from what I saw in the video, there was 1 female officer. Since the "victim" was resisting and non-compliant, and it took multiple men to get her stripped, how exactly would that 1 female officer be able to do that? Is it possible that this was video taped due to the fact that they may have HAD to have male officers involved? Did she assault the officer at the scene? Did the arresting officer make a mistake? I don't know, anyone that claims to know is full of it. Only the people that were there do know. None of this has really anything to do with America as a whole, this is an INDIVIDUAL circumstance. Let's not get into a battle over uploading "scary" videos to prove how bad America is. It really doesn't prove anything except that lady was a drunk ass idiot that was uncooperative with law enforcement, or that THOSE local police are rotten. Either way it doesn't really say much about America as a whole, just the individuals that were involved. Intresting video though.:thumbsup:

P.S. I have never ever in my life, met anyone that went to Iceland to recieve medical care, and how many people live there? Just curious.

[8182KSKUSH]

If I were American I would be worried about the economy, the change in laws that allow stop and search based purely upon suspicion . The illegal means used by the US goverment to kidnap and imprison people without any thought for the constitution they profess to stand up for.

Glad I'm not American. :D

Worried that the UK is going to be too complacent and allow the same thing to happen there too.

What? Search based on suspicion? There has not been any change that I am aware of, could you elaborate? No, police just can't walk up to you in public and demand to search you, doesn't work like that. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying though. Kidnapping and imprisoning people? Examples please, specific examples please? Economy? Yeah, by the way, tickets to the Super Bowl starting at $2000 and on up, hotel rooms for thousands, I personally am better off financially than I ever have been, and so are most of the people that I know. On average, people in America that are considered under the poverty line have 2 televisions in the home, cable, internet, and 2 vehicles. So I guess perspective would be important to have too in this conversation.:)

[8182KSKUSH]

You speak more pride for America. Have you ever heard of Iceland? They have the best health care in the world.

How can you proclaim we live in the greatest civilization on the "face of the earth?" Statements like this have isolated us from the truth of our country. You are oblivious to the exploitation at the hands of the Western world. People across Africa and Southeast Asia are facing devastating conditions for the oil and resources that maintain Western economies. Do you know how much U.S. funds for war compared to funding the improvements for living conditions for the people the countries exploit? (Nigeria)

I don't need to list another example of American exploitation because they aren't hard to find if you turn off your television.

Wow, do you know how much the U.S. contributes in dollars to 3rd world nations to improve living conditions? I will give you a hint, more than any other country in the world.:thumbsup: We are by far and away the most generous nation on the face of the earth, America contributes more money, time, and man power than any other country in the world. Remember the Tsunami Relief? Remember ANY huge natural disaster that happens virtually anywhere in the world. Pick one that the U.S hasn't been the top contributer to. And that's not even mentioning non governmental agencies such as the Red Cross ect.... which Americans VOLUNTEER for.
People in these third world nations are being exploited, by there own leadership. Not to mention the fact that anything "western" countries purchased from these "poor" countries only pumps money that they would otherwise not have into their economies. How exactly is that bad? I guess those people would be better off if no one bought anything from them huH?:wtf:

And still, no one has answered this question, if this is such a scary place, why do more people immigrate here legally and illegally than any other country in the world? Must be because our economy is wrecked, standard of living is so low, and oh yeah, because it's sooooooooooooo scary.:jointsmile:
And yeah I can proclaim that we do live in the Greates Country in the World, and yeah you can have a dissenting opinion, you can even protest your opinion in our nations capitol in public. Try going to Nigeria and leading a demonstration against that government and see what happens.:thumbsup: I really believe that if people looked at other nations with the scrutiny they view America with, they would realize how good Americans really do have it and why more people want to live here than any other place on the planet.:thumbsup:

[Iguana]

What? Search based on suspicion? There has not been any change that I am aware of, could you elaborate? No, police just can't walk up to you in public and demand to search you, doesn't work like that. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying though. Kidnapping and imprisoning people? Examples please, specific examples please? Economy? Yeah, by the way, tickets to the Super Bowl starting at $2000 and on up, hotel rooms for thousands, I personally am better off financially than I ever have been, and so are most of the people that I know. On average, people in America that are considered under the poverty line have 2 televisions in the home, cable, internet, and 2 vehicles. So I guess perspective would be important to have too in this conversation.:)

People from other countries say Americans assume too much of how things are in other countries. I contend that it happens no matter where one lives. I know I'm damn glad my grandfathers came to the USA from Sweden and The Netherlands. Their descendants live in the greatest country in the world, bar none. Not that other places aren't great places to live. I've visited some pretty nice places in Europe. No other country has made as much progress in as short a time period as the USA has done.

[Innominate]

Wow, do you know how much the U.S. contributes in dollars to 3rd world nations to improve living conditions? I will give you a hint, more than any other country in the world.:thumbsup: We are by far and away the most generous nation on the face of the earth, America contributes more money, time, and man power than any other country in the world. Remember the Tsunami Relief? Remember ANY huge natural disaster that happens virtually anywhere in the world. Pick one that the U.S hasn't been the top contributer to. And that's not even mentioning non governmental agencies such as the Red Cross ect.... which Americans VOLUNTEER for.
People in these third world nations are being exploited, by there own leadership. Not to mention the fact that anything "western" countries purchased from these "poor" countries only pumps money that they would otherwise not have into their economies. How exactly is that bad? I guess those people would be better off if no one bought anything from them huH?:wtf:

And still, no one has answered this question, if this is such a scary place, why do more people immigrate here legally and illegally than any other country in the world? Must be because our economy is wrecked, standard of living is so low, and oh yeah, because it's sooooooooooooo scary.:jointsmile:
And yeah I can proclaim that we do live in the Greates Country in the World, and yeah you can have a dissenting opinion, you can even protest your opinion in our nations capitol in public. Try going to Nigeria and leading a demonstration against that government and see what happens.:thumbsup: I really believe th at if people looked at other nations with the scrutiny they view America with, they would realize how good Americans really do have it and why more people want to live here than any other place on the planet.:thumbsup:
You shouldn't be so dismissive about the issues in America right now. You are oblivious to what has happened outside our borders, the policies our government enforces and the system of corporate dominance, pulling our self-esteem into corporate profits. What about our involvement in Southeast Asia? War? Oil? The Russian President does not like America, and he isn't leaving Moscow anytime soon. Do you wonder why this is? Do you wonder why the countries of the world dislike the United States?

Note:The uninformed and intolerant is the product of fascism.

[8182KSKUSH]

You shouldn't be so dismissive about the issues in America right now. You are oblivious to what has happened outside our borders, .
How exactly can you say this, I mean and know what you are saying about me personally is true? I guess I could say the same about you. You really failed to answer 1 of my questions and instead have resorted to trying to discredit me with your opinion about me. That's about par though. I think you may be the one that is oblivious to what actually happens outside our borders, I am referring to your prior post where you said that we don't help improve the quality of life in impoverished nations.


the policies our government enforces and the system of corporate dominance, pulling our self-esteem into corporate profits. .

Our government does not enforce "corporate dominance policies", specifically what the hell are you talking about? What policies specifically? As far as I know coorporations are not owned by the government, they operate to generate profit for their shareholders which include all of their employees, customers, stockholders, ect...


What about our involvement in Southeast Asia?.
What of it?


War?


Oil??

Yeah, those are both 3 letter words I guess, what your point. Oh that we are in a war for oil right? Let me ask you, how much did gas cost 10 years ago, how much does it cost now? Boy I am glad we got all that oil!


The Russian President does not like America, and he isn't leaving Moscow anytime soon. Do you wonder why this is?

Yeah, who cares if Putin doesn't like America. I don't, and I think his term is about up, although he may take another position. But yeah, an x kgb guy that spent his career fighting a cold war against us and loosing, fuck him. I am glad he doesn't like us, don't want to be a member of that club. He also has a problem with us because the Iraqi government was in bed with Russia and they had significant economic ties that Russia is no longer benefiting from. In other words, they lost their cash cow.


Do you wonder why the countries of the world dislike the United States?.

No, the overwhelming majority of the nations on this planet do like us and work with us, and trade with us. Please enlighten me with a specific list of ALL the countries that "don't like us". Obviously there are some, but really, do you want North Korea to be our friend? How about Iran, Syria, Russia, see I am helping you out, got your list half done!




Note:The uninformed and intolerant is the product of fascism.

You want to see "intolerant" look a little closer at the great Putin, or Syria, or Iran, or North Korea, or Rwanda, or Afghanistan, or Russia, or Burma, take your pick. :thumbsup:

[Innominate]

How exactly can you say this, I mean and know what you are saying about me personally is true? I guess I could say the same about you. You really failed to answer 1 of my questions and instead have resorted to trying to discredit me with your opinion about me. That's about par though. I think you may be the one that is oblivious to what actually happens outside our borders, I am referring to your prior post where you said that we don't help improve the quality of life in impoverished nations.



Our government does not enforce "corporate dominance policies", specifically what the hell are you talking about? What policies specifically? As far as I know coorporations are not owned by the government, they operate to generate profit for their shareholders which include all of their employees, customers, stockholders, ect...


What of it?





Yeah, those are both 3 letter words I guess, what your point. Oh that we are in a war for oil right? Let me ask you, how much did gas cost 10 years ago, how much does it cost now? Boy I am glad we got all that oil!



Yeah, who cares if Putin doesn't like America. I don't, and I think his term is about up, although he may take another position. But yeah, an x kgb guy that spent his career fighting a cold war against us and loosing, fuck him. I am glad he doesn't like us, don't want to be a member of that club. He also has a problem with us because the Iraqi government was in bed with Russia and they had significant economic ties that Russia is no longer benefiting from. In other words, they lost their cash cow.



No, the overwhelming majority of the nations on this planet do like us and work with us, and trade with us. Please enlighten me with a specific list of ALL the countries that "don't like us". Obviously there are some, but really, do you want North Korea to be our friend? How about Iran, Syria, Russia, see I am helping you out, got your list half done!





You want to see "intolerant" look a little closer at the great Putin, or Syria, or Iran, or North Korea, or Rwanda, or Afghanistan, or Russia, or Burma, take your pick. :thumbsup:
Forget it Kush, I'm not going to do your work for you. You need to inform yourself. I don't need to do all of this for a fascist's product. Your ignorant perception of America continues the dumbing trend they expect from you.

The history of Russia is much bloodier than ours, and you declare our country to be the greatest in the world, evading the presence of isolated rulers. Such ignorance. America is indeed a scary place.

[8182KSKUSH]

Forget it Kush, I'm not going to do your work for you. You need to inform yourself. I don't need to do all of this for a fascist's product. Your ignorant perception of America continues the dumbing trend they expect from you.

The history of Russia is much bloodier than ours, and you declare our country to be the greatest in the world, evading the presence of isolated rulers. Such ignorance. America is indeed a scary place.

Yeah um... go back and re-read the post, sorry you are upset over me picking you apart point by point. I don't need you to do any homework for me. I just simply picked your statements apart and pointed out how vague and ignorant they really were. I didn't actually ask you to do anything. Actually if you read it, I only asked you a couple of questions, that don't require any homework. 1. How you came to a conclusion about my education and where I draw my opinion. I merely pointed out that since I disagree with you, and your really can't back up what you are saying, then you resorted to a personal attack, instead of directly responding to the prior post.
2. When you mentioned south east asia, was that a reference to the Tsunami Relief that WE gave, or a reference to the 10s of thousands of people from south east asia that had escaped their country and brought their families here to live in a better place?
3. Asking for the list was a joke, you are angry because you know that looking at your claim "on paper" you wouldn't be able to really support your statement of, "duh yeah, countries hate us dude!" I don't believe that was a ver batum quote of you by any mean, I am of course paraphrasing! So exactly what are you talking about? Your rhetoric seems to have a lot of steam, until someone challenges it huh? I guess you can always fall back on personal attacks though, at least all the sheeple that agree with you will be happy!:thumbsup:

Anyways, just do some homework for yourself, it sounds like you need it!:)

[8182KSKUSH]

Forget it Kush, I'm not going to do your work for you. You need to inform yourself. I don't need to do all of this for a fascist's product. Your ignorant perception of America continues the dumbing trend they expect from you.

The history of Russia is much bloodier than ours, and you declare our country to be the greatest in the world, evading the presence of isolated rulers. Such ignorance. America is indeed a scary place.

Wow, great points!! :wtf:

[8182KSKUSH]

Forget it Kush, I'm not going to do your work for you. You need to inform yourself. I don't need to do all of this for a fascist's product. Your ignorant perception of America continues the dumbing trend they expect from you.

The history of Russia is much bloodier than ours, and you declare our country to be the greatest in the world, evading the presence of isolated rulers. Such ignorance. America is indeed a scary place.

I did in fact ask you to explain the statements you made about the "the policies our government enforces and the system of corporate dominance, pulling our self-esteem into corporate profits", but the fact that you would have to stop, go and find whatever the hell it is you are talking about just kind of supports what I am saying, you are spouting off a lot of rhetoric with out being able to back it up. Don't worry, I didn't expect an answer to that, since you can't. Quick though, go back to the Ron Paul website, I am sure you will find something there that you can cut and paste in that might remotely have something to do with what you are talking about. It still won't be right though!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Innominate]

You've never heard of the Patriot Act? And law enforcements can now "legally" listen to everyone's phone calls as they wish and you cannot interfere.

Iraq, a disaster. Are you willing to back it up?

As for corporate dominance, I suggest you really examine how advertising and commercialism has affected popular self-esteem. Food, alcohol, cigarettes, cars, sex, sports, and sensationalism. When these subjects bombard our lives, we tend to become accustomed to it.

The industries profit off of your desires and your lack of knowledge. If people were informed they would not eat food that isn't good for them, drink or smoke poison, or suffer from an eating disorder because they don't look like the people they see. That is why America is scary. We have no right to truth.

I don't need to goto a Ron Paul website to tell you any of this. You seem more interested in post wars than talking about the truth.

You're not providing me with any valuable information about why America is the "greatest" civilization in the world. A few relief programs does not match up at all.

Sorry Kush, I'm not playing this game, you will have to do your own reading.

[THClord]

Kush, you are entirely wrong.



All of the industrialized world have free health care except for the US. The FDA serves the interests of medical companies who want people to be sick. The average life-span is higher in Cuba than it is in the US when only about 2% of how much is spent per person on healthcare is used.

No other country's government does shit like ours. Torturing, escalating the Iraqi War for no reason, 9/11.

Police are brutal in the US. Have you ever dealt with them when you've done something you were not supposed to. On a college campus we got treated like criminals for drinking. It was ridiculous.
Police treatment in Europe for public drunkenness: They just fucked around with us, made us flip our bikes to read the "VIN number" kinda thing, then let us go on our way. Basically they did nothing at all.

The war on drugs? No other country is so into the war on drugs, which is a BS war.

The crime rate in the US is far greater than in other industrialized nations.

College expenses are a tenfold higher than in any other country. People coming from a poor family have a very hard time finishing college.




And you're right, the US is better in terms of finance. But money doesn't make you happy, and it's true. If you have a secure living with all of the necessities, that's enough IMO.
I can only think of 2 more things the US is superior at than a typical European country: Transportation and Fed-Ex.



I've lived in Europe for 9 years, and I firmly believe that it is a better place.

Sure there are worse places than the US. But compared to Europe the US fails miserably.

[8182KSKUSH]

You've never heard of the Patriot Act? And law enforcements can now "legally" listen to everyone's phone calls as they wish and you cannot interfere.

Anyone can listen to your phone calls, it's called a scanner. No it doesn't scare me a bit. You can also do this with a cordless phone by unplugging the base and powering on the handset.


Iraq, a disaster. Are you willing to back it up?

Yeah, I love this one, yes Iraq, and my relatives that live there today, are better off! It's not perfect there, but it's alot different now that the people there do have hope, and can live more freely than they ever have. Again that is a great example of a country where if you voiced any dissenting political opinion you, and your family could pay the ultimate price as many did. And yes, the world is better off, but I am sure that if you had it your way, Sadam would still be in power correct?


As for corporate dominance, I suggest you really examine how advertising and commercialism has affected popular self-esteem. Food, alcohol, cigarettes, cars, sex, sports, and sensationalism. When these subjects bombard our lives, we tend to become accustomed to it.

If you let those things affect you then too bad, they don't affect me. And I am fairly certian, that you will see these things in most modern countries. I don't believe these are uniquely American, maybe in the 60's, but not today. Been to Japan lately?


The industries profit off of your desires and your lack of knowledge.

OK... that sounds really cool I guess whatever that means, again you are a.s.s.uming alot about someone you don't know, me.


If people were informed they would not eat food that isn't good for them, drink or smoke poison, or suffer from an eating disorder because they don't look like the people they see.

Wow really, you gonna stand by this? Ok, here goes, as far as I know, you are free to choose what you eat, drink, or smoke. Last I checked, the government of this country doesn't force anyone to eat McDonald's every meal. I could be wrong though.:thumbsup: I also didn't realize the goverment was responsible for eating disorders, thanks for clearing that up. So in under developed 3rd world countries at least they don't have to worry about self image problems since they are sucking sand and eating rocks and don't have access to cable t.v.!:thumbsup:
That is why America is scary. We have no right to truth. [/QUOTE]


I don't need to goto a Ron Paul website to tell you any of this. You seem more interested in post wars than talking about the truth.

No not at all, I am just not going to let someone get away with spouting rhetoric that you can find on any leftist run website, and since this is a free country I am going to challange your points. And by the way, "If people were informed they would not eat food that isn't good for them, drink or smoke poison, or suffer from an eating disorder because they don't look like the people they see.".
that's really specific!


You're not providing me with any valuable information about why America is the "greatest" civilization in the world. A few relief programs does not match up at all. .

Believe me, I don't need to convince you, hopefully you will move to one of the 100s of other countries that you believe is better than ours, guess the grass looks greener on the other side huh? You are a "true believer", one day you will wake up. I am just taking this oppurtunity to blow you out of the water so that maybe some other sheeple that read this say "hey maybe the black helicopters really aren't trying to get me." And really quickly I can give you 37.9 million reasons why this is the greatest country on earth.

"The nationâ??s immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record of 37.9 million in 2007. " Center For Immigration Studies
That sure is alot of misguided people that are not from here, that obviously according to you come from "other countries in the world that hate america?" Someone better tell them how scary it is here! And how much better they would have been to stay in their home country huh?:thumbsup:

I know pictures might be easeier to understand so here you go. Look at all the people year after year that just have no idea that they are creating a WORSE life for themselves and their families because they choose to leave their spectacular countries! You haven't actually backed up anything that you have said. You have yet to post a single fact, and are really spewing nothing but leftist propoganda. Don't worry though, I know there are lots of sheeple that share your opinion here, and I am sure they all think you are really smart!:jointsmile:


Sorry Kush, I'm not playing this game, you will have to do your own reading.

You mean you don't want to play because you can't provide any facts to back up what you say. I just gave you 30 something millon reasons why I think this is the greatest country on earth, and those are just the people that came to the "Promise Land" this year! I don't think you really know what scary is.:D

[denial102]

Ah yes, the greatest nation on earth! WOOHOO! 8182KSKUSH I really hope that your wife/girlfriend/mother/sister never go through anything like this since you want to defend our "greatness".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWimXzEa9Xo

And for those who wish to do something about the video above please voice your opinions to:

Stark County Sheriff's Office
4500 Atlantic BLVD NE
Canton, Ohio 44705-4374
(330)/430-3800

this video made me feel sick. I love my partner.

[O. G. ganja smoker]

I dont think were the greatest country why are we so great? I think what makes this country great is the people, what scares me most is the moral decay ive been seeing going on compared with a few years ago people had a sence of right and wrong it seems more and more mindless humans are around now. For example its way more cool to be a "player" (cheater) these days. Theres a new trend going on only careing about yourself and money. Yes we are one of the richest countrys but rich with what little peices of paper. What if something happend to take away the illustion of wealth, what would matter then would be your ability to survive and our money has put that to the back of the "to do list". Other places have been surviving for years like this so 8182KSKUSH how would you be better off in this country than others say a tribe in africa that works as one unit compare that with our society everyone fend for there own. Saying "go back to your Ron Paul website" and "Were the greatest country in the world" just screams childish brainwashed individual. We may give money away the most but what about the money WE owe is anyone helping us with that? No so why are we still spending money like crazy that doesent exist ALL this scares me.

[8182KSKUSH]

Kush, you are entirely wrong.



All of the industrialized world have free health care except for the US. The FDA serves the interests of medical companies who want people to be sick. The average life-span is higher in Cuba than it is in the US when only about 2% of how much is spent per person on healthcare is used..

Are you sure, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's international statistics, as of 2000 the avg life expectancy in the U.S averaged for men and women is 77.1 years, Cuba is 76.2. And no, the health care in other countries is not FREE. Who pays for it? The goverment right, take it a step further, where does the government get the money. I rest my case. We don't have to be like everyone else, why is it that Canadians come across the border and PAY for health care when it's free for them at home. How's that "free healthcare" working out, I bet you get what you pay for.

No other country's government does shit like ours. Torturing, escalating the Iraqi War for no reason, 9/11...

Yeah enough said, OUR government caused 9/11? Ok, at least that gives everyone some perspective on your views!:thumbsup:


Police are brutal in the US. Have you ever dealt with them when you've done something you were not supposed to. On a college campus we got treated like criminals for drinking. It was ridiculous....

Yeah I sure have, dealt with the DEA too, on a first person basis, I know how bad things can get. Doesn't make me hate my country though. That also does not difine my nation. And yeah, if you are doing something illegal, especially if you are DRUNK and underaged on a college campus then yeah, you get what you deserve I guess. I have been there in that exact position, doesn't change how I view my country, police work for local goverments, not federal.

Police treatment in Europe for public drunkenness: They just fucked around with us, made us flip our bikes to read the "VIN number" kinda thing, then let us go on our way. Basically they did nothing at all.....


I have also had a very similar exp to this, but it was in the U.S., so I guess it probably really depends on who the cop is. I am betting that there may be some ass holes in Europe too.


The war on drugs? No other country is so into the war on drugs, which is a BS war.

The crime rate in the US is far greater than in other industrialized nations......

You are absolutely right about the war on drugs, the definition of "crime" however skews the stats, not to mention the size of the population and that they are rarely done on a "per capita" basis. Do you see where I am going with this?


College expenses are a tenfold higher than in any other country. People coming from a poor family have a very hard time finishing college.......

Yup, shit is expensive, that's why you can choose what you do. My choice was to stop going, the ROI wasn't worth it to me. However this flies in the face of the fact that more people come to this country for college, and pay out the ass for it to than any other country. Why? Really I want to know, I have 0 respect for our colleges.



And you're right, the US is better in terms of finance. But money doesn't make you happy, and it's true. If you have a secure living with all of the necessities, that's enough IMO........

Still working on the secure living, it wouldn't be fun if life was easy though!




I've lived in Europe for 9 years, and I firmly believe that it is a better place.

Sure there are worse places than the US. But compared to Europe the US fails miserably.

I really really am not being a dick, but if you believe that then just go back. It's really subjective, I know if I really believed that Panama was a far better place to live, I would go live there. In fact that's why I moved my entire family from Kansas to California, I believed it was better here. It's not.

[8182KSKUSH]

so 8182KSKUSH how would you be better off in this country than others say a tribe in africa that works as one unit compare that with our society everyone fend for there own. .


You can continue to live in the "hypothetical" world I will stay here.:thumbsup:

P.S., Alot of those people that live in the tribes in Africa flat out refuse all modern medicine, you wanna do that? Alot of them also believe that AIDS isn't real. Damn our technology!:thumbsup:

[8182KSKUSH]

this video made me feel sick. I love my partner.

It was supposed to, it was supposed to appeal to your emotions and get you upset at the American government, not the ass holes that did it or the drunk lady that was fighting with the cops. That is a very rudimentary tactic in a debate when you can't back up your premise.:thumbsup:

[denial102]

It was supposed to, it was supposed to appeal to your emotions and get you upset at the American government, not the ass holes that did it or the drunk lady that was fighting with the cops. That is a very rudimentary tactic in a debate when you can't back up your premise.:thumbsup:

drunk lady, gosh missed that part.

yeah, blaming the government for a single mans acts is different. Still what is the government doing about it!?

Yes, I am familiar with the "shock and awe" tactics used by political figures, it's a tool of governments too, at least fair play is established if this video uses it so.

Point taken, however. :thumbsup:

Peace,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

drunk lady, gosh missed that part.

yeah, blaming the government for a single mans acts is different. Still what is the government doing about it!?

Yes, I am familiar with the "shock and awe" tactics used by political figures, it's a tool of governments too, at least fair play is established if this video uses it so.

Point taken, however. :thumbsup:

Peace,
Denial

The federal government wouldn't be involved, it would be a local issue.:)

[denial102]

The federal government wouldn't be involved, it would be a local issue.:)
heh true. I am not great with politics; I guess it's clear then, there is a problem with the system if it allows for this - global or local, someone needs to take responsibility and account for it I guess...

:hippy:

Peace,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

heh true. I am not great with politics; I guess it's clear then, there is a problem with the system if it allows for this - global or local, someone needs to take responsibility and account for it I guess...

:hippy:

Peace,
Denial

That's just it, the video doesn't tell the whole story, but it does say that it is under investigation, so if it truely was as horrible as it was made out to be then what was done in the dark will come to light. "The System" is in the process of investigating it from what I understood. Hell, they may be done, they may have sided with the "victim", they may also be privy to much more information on the case than we are, since all we know is what we saw on the video.

[denial102]

That's just it, the video doesn't tell the whole story, but it does say that it is under investigation, so if it truely was as horrible as it was made out to be then what was done in the dark will come to light. "The System" is in the process of investigating it from what I understood. Hell, they may be done, they may have sided with the "victim", they may also be privy to much more information on the case than we are, since all we know is what we saw on the video.

agreed, but for the record I am NOT a fan of the way the US is doing things right now.

Peace,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

agreed, but for the record I am NOT a fan of the way the US is doing things right now.

Peace,
Denial

Hey I am with you, I am not happy with ALOT of things that we do as a country, but I am happy that I can voice my opinion with out losing my head, literally, or having my family kidnapped in the middle of the night and burned alive and thrown in a pit! Politics in the U.S. is like the weather, just wait, it will change. It has for the last 200 years, the great thing about our country is that it allows for change.:jointsmile:

[denial102]

Hey I am with you, I am not happy with ALOT of things that we do as a country, but I am happy that I can voice my opinion with out losing my head, literally, or having my family kidnapped in the middle of the night and burned alive and thrown in a pit! Politics in the U.S. is like the weather, just wait, it will change. It has for the last 200 years, the great thing about our country is that it allows for change.:jointsmile:

yessir, unless they change it - hah, just messing homes.

Word.

Peace,
Denial

[BlueCat00]

Nuclear weapons scare me. People that have no interest in what is happening in the world scare me, or even their own country scare me. People with closed minds scare me and people that think we live in the perfect country without ever going anywhere else scares me.

Our present government scares me.



A word about fascism: If you look at the definitions we are really close.



One of the more common government strategies today, especially in developing regions is fascism. Fascism is commonly confused with Nazism. Nazism is a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism. It is not a government structure. Fascism is a government structure. The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.



Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.


general characteristics
of a fascist country:
1. Fascism is commonly defined as an open terror-based dictatorship which is:

Reactionary: makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten.
Chauvinistic: Two or more tiered legal systems, varying rights based upon superficial characteristics such as race, creed and origin.
Imperialist (http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm#Imperialism) elements of finance capital: Extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political domination of one state over its allies.

[psychocat]

The US patriot act gives powers to investigating officers that contradict the fourth amendment and allow for unwarranted searches and seizure of evidence.
The only people who are going to benefit from this law are the lawyers.
George Orwells vision of a surveilance society is already becoming reality and America serves as the first to embrace the idea that a goverments job is to tell us what we can do , what we can say and what we can think.

[BlueCat00]

I read an article last week about how cops can keep whatever stuff you have when they arrest you. They can keep it for themselves they don't have to turn it in or give it back! ipod laptop whatever it is theirs. Now that's scary! I have to find that article again my son was showing it to me. What bullshit.

[denial102]

They can keep it for themselves they don't have to turn it in or give it back! ipod laptop whatever it is theirs. Now that's scary! I have to find that article again my son was showing it to me. What bullshit.

wow that is bullshit :-( Get them bastards :dance:
peace,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

I would like to read that article. I think it's bull shit too, the "article" that is.:thumbsup:

[denial102]

I would like to read that article. I think it's bull shit too, the "article" that is.:thumbsup:

heh thats not what i meant when i said "that's bullshit" :P heh

What I should have said, "if that's true, it's bullshit!"

:D

Peace,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

heh thats not what i meant when i said "that's bullshit" :P heh

What I should have said, "if that's true, it's bullshit!"

:D

Peace,
Denial

Sorry, I didn't mean to take your comments out of context, when I read what you said I didn't take it to mean the same thing that I meant, but after re-reading both the posts I can see what you are saying, my comment right after yours does kind of make it sound a little different than what you probably actually meant. You are correct though, "if" that is true, then it really is bull shit, I am just calling "bull shit" on it, it doesn't sound right at all? I am open to reading the article though, researching the source and making my own opinion, however, since I can't find the article we just have to take Blue's word for it, that's not good enough for me.:D No different than me saying, "I read an article last week that said police can come into your home while you sleep and fondle you." If I throw something like that out there and cite that it was from an article, wouldn't you like to read it yourself and check the source? Of course, please Blue, give us the source, if it was online, check your history, use google desktop search, do something!:thumbsup:

[8182KSKUSH]

Nuclear weapons scare me. People that have no interest in what is happening in the world scare me, or even their own country scare me. People with closed minds scare me and people that think we live in the perfect country without ever going anywhere else scares me.

Our present government scares me.



A word about fascism: If you look at the definitions we are really close.



One of the more common government strategies today, especially in developing regions is fascism. Fascism is commonly confused with Nazism. Nazism is a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism. It is not a government structure. Fascism is a government structure. The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.



Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.


general characteristics
of a fascist country:
1. Fascism is commonly defined as an open terror-based dictatorship which is:

Reactionary: makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten.
Chauvinistic: Two or more tiered legal systems, varying rights based upon superficial characteristics such as race, creed and origin.
Imperialist (http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm#Imperialism) elements of finance capital: Extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political domination of one state over its allies.


Ok, I hear and read this word thrown around alot, 1. Glad you defined it, 2. You didn't really relate that to specific examples of America today. You just said our goverment scares you, and then defined facism? OK?:wtf:

[denial102]

Sorry, I didn't mean to take your comments out of context, when I read what you said I didn't take it to mean the same thing that I meant, but after re-reading both the posts I can see what you are saying, my comment right after yours does kind of make it sound a little different than what you probably actually meant. You are correct though, "if" that is true, then it really is bull shit, I am just calling "bull shit" on it, it doesn't sound right at all? I am open to reading the article though, researching the source and making my own opinion, however, since I can't find the article we just have to take Blue's word for it, that's not good enough for me.:D No different than me saying, "I read an article last week that said police can come into your home while you sleep and fondle you." If I throw something like that out there and cite that it was from an article, wouldn't you like to read it yourself and check the source? Of course, please Blue, give us the source, if it was online, check your history, use google desktop search, do something!:thumbsup:

haha yeah dude, no worries - When i wrote the post I was actually thinking, oh shit me saying "that is bullshit" isn't specific enough.. so i added "get those bastards" - haha. It happens!



Peace,
Denial

[BlueCat00]

I would like to read that article. I think it's bull shit too, the "article" that is.:thumbsup:

WTF is wrong with you dude?! You just bitch on anything I post, you grouchy old man go smoke some weed you need to chill.

My son just showed me that article I said I would ask him for it and I don't appreciate you insinuating I am a liar. :mad: Stop being so fucking RUDE.

[BlueCat00]

I posted the fascism comment because early in the thread someone commented of fascism.

It pertains to America because when the patriot act was passed I believe we slipped closer to a fascist state.

I will try to speak in simpler terms maybe that would help. :wtf:

See I can be RUDE too.

[fishman3811]

SKUSH have u lived anywhere else other than America?Because to say that America is the greatest country in the world without actually living in other countries is a little stupid.As far as Canadians going down to the states to get medical care yes the wealthy can afford to bypass our system in favour of yours but that doesnt make your system the best.I wouldnt trade our system for yours ever,i may not get the best care that money can buy,but i will get care unlike the 50 million Americans who cant afford health care.Your country is bye far the greatest country on earth,your education system,health care system and your social safety nets are not even rated in the top ten compared to other nations.....

[rebgirl420]

I am so afraid that America is going to become a socialist nation. It seems like everyone is looking for a handout from the government. If the founding fathers would see what has become of their great nation they would hang their heads in shame. It seems like the word "free" is in front of most of the politicians words and promises these days. But nothings free folks. That "free" healthcare is only free to those who don't pay taxes.

I'm afraid that religion is getting out of hand in government. I don't even know where to begin. Like the anti-gay marriage thing. WTF? Since when is it anyones job to press their moral authority over ANYONE.

Pot. That's it. The whole war on drugs is only going to get worse. It seems to me like the whole thing is like a huge snowball hurling down a hill, only getting bigger and bigger.

Guns. What is up with people wanting to take guns away. It's a horrible idea. It's our second admendment for a reason. It's the one you have to remember when the government forgets the others. Not to mention can you really trust the police to save you? And the anti-gun laws only hurt the people who are actually obeying the laws. The criminals will still have their guns.

[8182KSKUSH]

SKUSH have u lived anywhere else other than America?.....
No, and I don't have to eat a pound of shit to know that I don't like it.:thumbsup:

As far as Canadians going down to the states to get medical care yes the wealthy can afford to bypass our system in favour of yours .....

Really? Then why would they if your Canadian Health Care is sooooooooooo super duper. Thanks you just proved my point, when Canadians can, they will choose the American Health Care System and they do.:thumbsup:


Personally I like having the choice to NOT have health insurance. I subscribe to a simple theory, "if you don't have health insurance, then don't get sick. Works every time it's tried!" Ha ha ha.:D How much of your personal income do you give to the government there anyway? Do you enjoy not having a choice in your own health care? Good luck with that!:thumbsup:

[denial102]

I am so afraid that America is going to become a socialist nation. It seems like everyone is looking for a handout from the government. If the founding fathers would see what has become of their great nation they would hang their heads in shame. It seems like the word "free" is in front of most of the politicians words and promises these days. But nothings free folks. That "free" healthcare is only free to those who don't pay taxes.

I'm afraid that religion is getting out of hand in government. I don't even know where to begin. Like the anti-gay marriage thing. WTF? Since when is it anyones job to press their moral authority over ANYONE.

Pot. That's it. The whole war on drugs is only going to get worse. It seems to me like the whole thing is like a huge snowball hurling down a hill, only getting bigger and bigger.

Guns. What is up with people wanting to take guns away. It's a horrible idea. It's our second admendment for a reason. It's the one you have to remember when the government forgets the others. Not to mention can you really trust the police to save you? And the anti-gun laws only hurt the people who are actually obeying the laws. The criminals will still have their guns.

Socialism? Are you sure? Fascist, I can see. Socialist... hmm I am not so sure :-)


Fascism
"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." (From The American Heritage Dictionary)

Socialism
An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion."


Peace,
Denial

[rebgirl420]

Socialism? Are you sure? Fascist, I can see. Socialist... hmm I am not so sure :-)


Fascism
"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." (From The American Heritage Dictionary)

Socialism
An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion."


Peace,
Denial

Nope, Socialist definately! Just listen to Hilary, Barack and Edwards! All they talk about is making the rich pay and give to the poor man. But the sad thing is it's not just the Democrats, Republicans are just as bad.

[8182KSKUSH]

Nope, Socialist definately! Just listen to Hilary, Barack and Edwards! All they talk about is making the rich pay and give to the poor man. But the sad thing is it's not just the Democrats, Republicans are just as bad.

Nail, head, you hit it!:thumbsup:

[rebgirl420]

Haha thanks. I'm glad i'm not alone here.

[8182KSKUSH]

If you have read through this thread, you may have seen the claim that cops can steal your stuff now. Well it's not true, surprise surprise,
this is the first sentence of the article from the :wtf: Highly Reputable New York Times:

Federal law enforcement officers are immune from lawsuits
for mishandling, losing or even stealing personal property that comes
under their control in the course of their official duties, the
Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday in a 5-to-4 decision.

So no, a "cop" is not going to come to your house and steal your new flat screen. Sweet Feathery Jesus!:jointsmile:

[denial102]

Nope, Socialist definately! Just listen to Hilary, Barack and Edwards! All they talk about is making the rich pay and give to the poor man. But the sad thing is it's not just the Democrats, Republicans are just as bad.

I stand corrected :-)

I've always described the governments foreign policy as fascist, and some of the internal laws as fascist ones.. this socialism stuff is all new to me.. :D and to think I consider myself a socialist :-( sigh.

Heads up!

Peace,
Denial

[BlueCat00]

Ok so I guess now that all our jobs have been sent overseas and our factories are closed.... You do read the paper or listen to the news I hope. Have you not noticed all the jobs being lost EVERYDAY? We have outsourced everything including our computer technologies! So how do you two plan on feeding the people that have no jobs. The ones you think are getting a free ride. Oh and how do you handle the families that were living the American dream when one of their kids gets really sick and the insurance company will not pay beyond the cap they set so the family loses everything trying to save their kid. It is happening everyday. Someone gets really ill and can't work so they lose it all. It could happen to YOU.

You think it is ok for our country to be sliding into poverty while Exxon mobile execs are reaping in huge profits? I think those that make billions should pony up and take some social responsibility.
They are benefiting from the huge ass gas prices after all.
People don't want hand outs they want help! They want the government to stop letting the corporations use loop holes to not pay taxes.

They want the insurance and drug companies to stop gouging the shit out of people.

Those that make over 200,000 a year SHOULD NOT get huge tax breaks. Why should the middle class be paying more taxes?! We all need to take some moral responsibility for our fellow man. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

So you prefer to watch families lose their homes and go without food. I think that pretty fucking insensitive.

This country is not drifting toward socialism it is drifting into POVERTY! Wake up.

[8182KSKUSH]

There seems to be a general lack of understanding about what "facism" actually is.
Ususally, the one component in facism that is always there is a dictator. That's why I laugh my ass off when I read people throwing around that word with regard to our government. If you want an example of some facist states, then look at, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Venezuala, Cuba, and so on. We are a hell of a lot closer to a socialist state than a facist one.;) I don't believe that you can elect leaders in a facist state, the leaders just sieze power indefinately, and if you oppose them, you die.

[BlueCat00]

A lot of people feel that Bush is skirting close when it comes to being a dictator. Some of those exec orders really make him look bad.

His latest:

A new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.


Or how about this one?

National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51 puts the President in charge of ensuring constitutional government for all three branches of government in the case of a catastrophic emergency. This effectively makes the President a dictator. The directive itself is unconstitutional and ensures constitutional government wouldn't exist.

The directive defines a â??Catastrophic Emergencyâ?� as the following. "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;

So what does this mean? This is entirely subjective and doesnâ??t provide any real concrete definition of what such an emergency would entail. Assuming that it means a disaster on the scale of the 9/11 attacks or Katrina, there is no question that the United States at some point in time will experience an emergency on par with either of those events. When one of those events takes place, the President will be a dictator in charge of ensuring a working constitutional government.
The language written in the directive is disturbing because it doesnâ??t say that the President will work with the other branches of government equally to ensure a constitutional government is protected. It says clearly that there will be a cooperative effort among the three branches that will be coordinated by the President. If the President is coordinating these efforts it effectively puts him in charge of every branch. The language in the directive is entirely Orwellian in nature making it seem that it is a cooperative effort between all three branches but then it says that the President is in charge of the cooperative effort.

[8182KSKUSH]

Ok so I guess now that all our jobs have been sent overseas and our factories are closed.....

Really? All of them? My wife and I both still have jobs, in fact I don't know anyone that is unemployed. Guess we're lucky!



You do read the paper or listen to the news I hope..... .
Sure, but I take it with a grain of salt, you should too.



Have you not noticed all the jobs being lost EVERYDAY?

No, I don't know anyone that has lost their job to be honest with you? And when people do, I don't doubt that it happens, is it possible to.....:wtf:....get a new job?



We have outsourced everything including our computer technologies! So how do you two plan on feeding the people that have no jobs. ?

Sorry, I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to feed other peoples kids?


Oh and how do you handle the families that were living the American dream when one of their kids gets really sick and the insurance company will not pay beyond the cap they set so the family loses everything trying to save their kid. It is happening everyday. Someone gets really ill and can't work so they lose it all. It could happen to YOU.

Yeah, I suppose you may be right, but I could win the lottery too, so what's your point?



You think it is ok for our country to be sliding into poverty while Exxon mobile execs are reaping in huge profits?

Yeah, actually I own stock in Exxon, so I am always glad to hear that they are doing well and taking care of their 1000s of employees and shareholders.


I think those that make billions should pony up and take some social responsibility.

Yup, redistributing money, that's called SOCIALISM, are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to make money? WTF? I bet you were all for Billary's idea to take profits from private oil companies and give them to "others" whoever they are.


They are benefiting from the huge ass gas prices after all.
People don't want hand outs they want help! They want the government to stop letting the corporations use loop holes to not pay taxes.

Coorporations DO NOT PAY TAXES, you do.


They want the insurance and drug companies to stop gouging the shit out of people.

It's called a "free market", they do as they wish. If it's as bad as you say, then they will lose money, and thus change.


Those that make over 200,000 a year SHOULD NOT get huge tax breaks. Why should the middle class be paying more taxes?!

Here's why, these stats are from the IRS:

The top 1% pay over a third, 34.27% of all income taxes. (Up from 2003: 33.71%) The top 5% pay 54.36% of all income taxes (Up from 2002: 53.80%). The top 10% pay 65.84% (Up from 2002: 65.73%). The top 25% pay 83.88% (Down from 2002: 83.90%). The top 50% pay 96.54% (Up from 2002: 96.50%). The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.46% of all income taxes (Down from 2002: 3.50%). The top 1% is paying nearly ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 16.77% of all income (2002: 16.12%). The top 5% earns 31.18% of all the income (2002: 30.55%). The top 10% earns 42.36% of all the income (2002: 41.77%); the top 25% earns 64.86% of all the income (2002: 64.37%) , and the top 50% earns 86.01% (2002: 85.77%) of all the income.
That's why, I also attached a picture with a chart so you don't have to read if you don't like to.!


We all need to take some moral responsibility for our fellow man. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

So you prefer to watch families lose their homes and go without food. I think that pretty fucking insensitive.

This country is not drifting toward socialism it is drifting into POVERTY! Wake up.

I think that you may be a little mis informed about the reality of America, and how Americans are living. Think about everything you just said, then look around you. Does it make sense? Enough with the propaganda already sheeesh.:thumbsup:

Sorry, I wasn't able to attach the picture with the graphs, so I guess you probably won't be able to understand this and I probably just wasted my time.

[denial102]

There seems to be a general lack of understanding about what "facism" actually is.
Ususally, the one component in facism that is always there is a dictator. That's why I laugh my ass off when I read people throwing around that word with regard to our government. If you want an example of some facist states, then look at, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Venezuala, Cuba, and so on. We are a hell of a lot closer to a socialist state than a facist one.;) I don't believe that you can elect leaders in a facist state, the leaders just sieze power indefinately, and if you oppose them, you die.

thanks for your input man, I think we need to look at the definition of fascism a little bit more, not that I am disagreeing america is socialist as that has been outlined by you and rebgirl.

"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. The key attribute of fascism is intolerance of others: other religions, languages, political views, economic systems, cultural practices, etc. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism"

Nationalism
Statism
Militarism
Totalitarianism
anti-communism
corporatism
populism
collectivism
autocracy


out of those 11 things, I think the above 9 might apply to the US, if not now things are moving that way, have been going that way, or are now already that way, in my opinion.

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)

Undecided here, I will let everybody else judge for themselves..

:thumbsup:

Peace 2 all,
Denial

[8182KSKUSH]

Yeah, I would bet my life that we are not living in a facist state, wait till november i guess and see if the evil "Bush" decides to leave office or not? And also, "opposition to political and economic liberalism", um yeah....I don't think anyone that opposes liberal policy is a facist, also Wik, is by far not reputable. But at least you are getting this info out, it's pretty right on, except for the part where it says if you oppose liberals then you are a facist. :wtf:

[8182KSKUSH]

.

Really? All of them? My wife and I both still have jobs, in fact I don't know anyone that is unemployed. Guess we're lucky!


.
Sure, but I take it with a grain of salt, you should too.




No, I don't know anyone that has lost their job to be honest with you? And when people do, I don't doubt that it happens, is it possible to.....:wtf:....get a new job?




Sorry, I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to feed other peoples kids?



Yeah, I suppose you may be right, but I could win the lottery too, so what's your point?




Yeah, actually I own stock in Exxon, so I am always glad to hear that they are doing well and taking care of their 1000s of employees and shareholders.



Yup, redistributing money, that's called SOCIALISM, are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to make money? WTF? I bet you were all for Billary's idea to take profits from private oil companies and give them to "others" whoever they are.



Coorporations DO NOT PAY TAXES, you do.



It's called a "free market", they do as they wish. If it's as bad as you say, then they will lose money, and thus change.



Here's why, these stats are from the IRS:

The top 1% pay over a third, 34.27% of all income taxes. (Up from 2003: 33.71%) The top 5% pay 54.36% of all income taxes (Up from 2002: 53.80%). The top 10% pay 65.84% (Up from 2002: 65.73%). The top 25% pay 83.88% (Down from 2002: 83.90%). The top 50% pay 96.54% (Up from 2002: 96.50%). The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.46% of all income taxes (Down from 2002: 3.50%). The top 1% is paying nearly ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 16.77% of all income (2002: 16.12%). The top 5% earns 31.18% of all the income (2002: 30.55%). The top 10% earns 42.36% of all the income (2002: 41.77%); the top 25% earns 64.86% of all the income (2002: 64.37%) , and the top 50% earns 86.01% (2002: 85.77%) of all the income.
That's why, I also attached a picture with a chart so you don't have to read if you don't like to.!



I think that you may be a little mis informed about the reality of America, and how Americans are living. Think about everything you just said, then look around you. Does it make sense? Enough with the propaganda already sheeesh.:thumbsup:

Sorry, I wasn't able to attach the picture with the graphs, so I guess you probably won't be able to understand this and I probably just wasted my time.


Hey I got the pic after all!

[denial102]

Yeah, I would bet my life that we are not living in a facist state, wait till november i guess and see if the evil "Bush" decides to leave office or not? And also, "opposition to political and economic liberalism", um yeah....I don't think anyone that opposes liberal policy is a facist, also Wik, is by far not reputable. But at least you are getting this info out, it's pretty right on, except for the part where it says if you oppose liberals then you are a facist. :wtf:

I am well aware of the nuances on wikipedia, if you think part of the wikipedia definition is wrong let me/us know ;o)

I am a fan of Thomas Paines work, â??Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.â?�

Has anyone ever read 1984?

Also Mark Twain is excellent.

"It is by the goodness of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either." - Mark Twain

Update: Changed my mind, two words, magna carta.
heh


Peace,
Denial

[BlueCat00]

You are the one that has lost touch with reality. My husband was one of those that just got laid off after 30 years. I hope to hell your next. What an insensitive jerk. At this point I think you just get your rocks off making people mad no one can be this stupid.

According to a recent report, there were 86,126 mortgage job cuts in 2007, with another 30,000 to 40,000 expected by early 2008.

30,000 Ford workers in North America, out of work. Ford's plan, announced includes the shutting of 14 plants in the next seven years,

Beazer Mortgage Corp. halts loan origination
H&R Block to cut 505 jobs related to closure of Option One
WaMu to cut 381 jobs in California

IndyMac reportedly halting construction-to-perm lending
E-Loan reportedly suspended wholesale lending
BF Saul Wholesale Group layoffs and closures
Equifirst reportedly for sale, continued layoffs
1st Choice Mortgage â?? to close, layoffs
Aames Investment Corp â?? acquired by Accredited Home Lenders
ABN Amro Mortgage â?? 1700 layoffs
Aegis Funding â?? closed, seeking bankruptcy protection
Aegis Mortgage Corp. â?? laying off 401 employees
ACC Capital Holdings â?? mass layoffs, closed Ameriquest,
Acoustic Home Loans â?? closed
ACT Mortgage Capital â?? suspended all submissions/fundings until further notice

Alliance Bancorp â?? closed, filed for Ch. 7 bankruptcy
Alliance Title Co. â?? shut down, layoffs

Allstate Home Loans â?? shut down (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/allstate-home-loans-shut-down-after-buyout/) after buyout
ALT Funding â?? believed to have ceased operations
Alterna Mortgage â?? New Jersey wholesale lender closed
Alternative Financing Corp. â?? wholesale division closed
Altivus Financial â?? closed wholesale operations, now believed to be shut down
AMC Lending â??ceases wholesale lending
AMC Mortgage â?? acquired by Transnational Financial Network Inc.
American Brokers Conduit â?? shut down all operations
American Business Financial Services â?? closed
American Equity Mortgage â?? closing 6 of 30 offices, laying off 40 employees
American Freedom Mortgage â?? filed bankruptcy
American Home Mortgage â?? closed (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/american-home-mortgage-closes-doors/)

Ameriquest â?? closed (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/acc-closes-ameriquest-sells-assets-to-citigroup/), laid off 3,800, shut 229 retail branches
Ameritrust Mortgage Company â?? subprime wholesale division closed
AmPro Mortgage closed
Amstar Mortgage Corp. â?? most staff laid off,
Apex Financial Group/Aapex Mortgage â?? commission checks delayed, licenses suspended
Apex Mortgage/Aapex Mortgage â?? reportedly cease all operations
APS Mortgages Limited (UK) â?? independent brokerage shutting downn

Aurora Loan Services â?? 160 employees laid off
Axix Mortgage â?? closed

Bank of America â?? cutting 3,000 jobs
Bank of America â?? to cut 650 jobs, sell its prime brokerage unit
BankUnited â?? to close four wholesale mortgage sales offices, 200 layoffs

Bay Capital Corp. â?? closed
BayRock Mortgage Corp. â?? ceased wholesale lending
BB&T â?? bought Collateral Real Estate Capital
BC Bancorp â?? shut down
Bear Stearns â?? layoffs (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/bear-stearns-layoffs/)
Bear Stearns â?? closed two hedge funds after huge subprime losses, 240 subprime layoffs

Bear Stearns â?? more layoffs (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/bear-stearns-cutting-650-jobs/)
Bear Stearns â?? cuts 150 jobs in Irvine, CA

Beazer Homes â?? cut 25% of staff
Belvedere Trust Mortgage â?? two default notices, unlikely to pay back loans
Beneficial Finance â?? layoffs (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/beneficial-finance-to-close-hundreds-of-offices-cut-1500-jobs/)
Blackstone Group â?? buying PHH Mortgage
BMC Capital â?? to acquire NMB Capital
BNC Mortgage LLC â?? shut down (http://www.thetruthaboutmortgage.com/bnc-mortgage-shut-down/) â?? consolidated with Aurora Loan Services layoffs
BNC Mortgage â?? cut 175 jobs in Nor. Cal, 400 in So. Cal
BNY Mortgage â?? changes name to EverBank Reverse Mortgage
Broad Street Mortgage â?? sold to Wausau Mortgage Corp.

and that is just the As and Bs you want the whole alphabet?...oh no it must be a newspaper conspiracy don't believe what you hear on the news every body is happy. You are living in a fantasy land. What the hell are the top economic pros in this country talking about? Can you say recession?

Bad karmas gonna get you.

[psychocat]

Blue you have hit the nail on the head , as far as the economy is concerned I would have to say that given all the premonitions of a recession coming that anyone who thinks all is well in the land of plenty really needs to take off those rose tinted glasses.
Britain and Europe will follow suit as the continued undercutting of the west by the east sees a massive shift in world wealth.

[albertwalker]

i think the most scary thing is maybe being the end. i mean clinton got us out of debt and made things right in the middle east, bush fucks it up, next presitdent...does what??? according to the bible the prophecy has almost been fulfilled so im not exactly worried for america. more about everyone as a whole is what im most concerned about.

[Rusty Trichome]

A lot of people feel that Bush is skirting close when it comes to being a dictator. Some of those exec orders really make him look bad.
Laughable.


His latest:

A new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.


Like Syria, North Korea, Ayman Sabawi (and other insurgent fund raisers)...? Cool.

Or how about this one?

National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51 puts the President in charge of ensuring constitutional government for all three branches of government in the case of a catastrophic emergency. So what does this mean?

It means that it puts the President in charge of ensuring constitutional government for all three branches of government. This assigns responsibility to the sitting president to promptly fill positions recently vacated by catastrophy, so as to not interfere with day to day operation of the government. This does not give him the authority to run those three arms of government himself.
Someone didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[thcbongman]

Hey I got the pic after all!

The rich always has to pay more income taxes than the poor. One, it's human for other humans to take care of one or another, that's how we survived for 10,000 of years. Two, the tax they pay grossly disproportional. Look at it as you get rich in the land-of-the-free, capitalistic tax. You drive on their roads, which they clean up and maintain. They regulate the goods you purchase are safe. The function of government is to take care of it's citizens. Not to tell them what to do with their lives, but keep them safe in the background.

Go to a country like France. Imagine paying a 19.6% sales tax. On top of a grossly disproportional income tax, which the rich is heavily taxed. You'll be glad to live with the taxes America has. I suggest you travel a bit before claiming high taxation is the biggest danger in America. This high taxation is at least rewarded with some of the best government services on the land: adequate public transportation, health care for citizens, etc..

The US government is highly mismanaged, and prone to waste, fraud and abuse. The solution isn't to cut or raise taxes. It's to learn to manage assets more efficiently. It's time to privitize sections of the government, allowing more private enterprise to compete to provide government services to it's citizens. But let's not kid ourselves, we should not pay less taxes because the government isn't producing results. The government simply has to become more accountable.

[silkyblue]

its not that Americans are spend thrifts or greedy, they dont want no hand outs from anyone !, its Americans
own money, they want back. The money they worked for, money the gov takes! give Americans, free groceries! not soylent 'crackers', groceries are way too, high priced!

Mills and manufacturing have went by the wayside because
of 'partnership for a drug free America" pissheads, they cant keep the workers! The best ones are getting tested for stupid reasons!

the best workers are getting fired for failed drug test

give Americans a friggin break!

stay out of our dam underwear!!


:(:mad::hippy::wtf::cool::stoned:

[8182KSKUSH]

The rich always has to pay more income taxes than the poor. One, it's human for other humans to take care of one or another, that's how we survived for 10,000 of years. Two, the tax they pay grossly disproportional. Look at it as you get rich in the land-of-the-free, capitalistic tax. You drive on their roads, which they clean up and maintain. They regulate the goods you purchase are safe. The function of government is to take care of it's citizens. Not to tell them what to do with their lives, but keep them safe in the background.

Go to a country like France. Imagine paying a 19.6% sales tax. On top of a grossly disproportional income tax, which the rich is heavily taxed. You'll be glad to live with the taxes America has. I suggest you travel a bit before claiming high taxation is the biggest danger in America. This high taxation is at least rewarded with some of the best government services on the land: adequate public transportation, health care for citizens, etc..

The US government is highly mismanaged, and prone to waste, fraud and abuse. The solution isn't to cut or raise taxes. It's to learn to manage assets more efficiently. It's time to privitize sections of the government, allowing more private enterprise to compete to provide government services to it's citizens. But let's not kid ourselves, we should not pay less taxes because the government isn't producing results. The government simply has to become more accountable.

I personally have no problem with America, and was not claiming that taxes were terrible, just giving Blue a reality check, since she is under the impression that taxes on the "middle class" are such a burden? Please! Hey Blue, yet another example of you regurgitating popular news media myths!!!:thumbsup: Every time you post you help me prove my point. Keep on though, blame America, blame Bush!!!! You are right on thcbongman!!!

Yeah, I was simply pointing out that it seems pretty unreasonable to ask the top 50% of income earners to pay more, how much should they pay, 99.9%? Who is that money used for? I am just guessing here, but I am betting that the bottom 50% that pay a whapping 3% of all the income taxes probably benifit a whole hell of lot more from the top 50% income taxes than the people that actually pay them. Can we say "redistributing wealth". And of course, my point to blue was when is enough enough? Will you only be happy when the top 50% pay 99.9%? When will people start taking some personal responsibility for themselves? YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!! AMERICA DOES NOT OWE YOU ANYTHING!!!!! YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE ANYTIME IF YOU THINK THAT IT IS SO BAD HERE!!!

[fishman3811]

So youve never lived in another country and yet u claim to live in the worlds best country LMAO.Well growing up in a country where the education system is a mess doesnt surprise me one bit that you would feel that way.But facts are facts your country is by far the best on this planet.Your economy is a house of cards you spend more on military budgets than most of the world put together your running a 400 billion dollar deficit just to keep your country afloat.As far as me paying high taxes yes i do but someone has to pay for our education system out health care system and all the other things that come with living in a great country such as Canada.Also if you would of read my post i never said our health care is soooooo super duper but i guess we can blame your education on that one too.......P.S how do u like living in the worlds biggest police state...............

[8182KSKUSH]

So youve never lived in another country and yet u claim to live in the worlds best country LMAO.Well growing up in a country where the education system is a mess doesnt surprise me one bit that you would feel that way.But facts are facts your country is by far the best on this planet.Your economy is a house of cards you spend more on military budgets than most of the world put together your running a 400 billion dollar deficit just to keep your country afloat.As far as me paying high taxes yes i do but someone has to pay for our education system out health care system and all the other things that come with living in a great country such as Canada.Also if you would of read my post i never said our health care is soooooo super duper but i guess we can blame your education on that one too.......P.S how do u like living in the worlds biggest police state...............


So let me ask you this "all knowing", how many Americans immigrated to Canada in the last 10 years? How many Canadians immigrated to the U.S.? Any questions?
P.S.
I don't expect an answer, since it will only support my claim that America is the GREATEST COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, but I guess you could claim that ALL the Canadians that immigrate here do so because they want a less fulfilling, much scarier life?:wtf:

[O. G. ganja smoker]

oh i will live in my world keeps me prepared for anything:D able to adapt, i feel sorry for people who cant open there mind when things change there up a shit creek :jointsmile:. just saying i dont like people saying this country is the greatest because thats only a opinion not a fact and a brainwashed opinon at that :thumbsup:. Thats what did in germany hitler and all his followers saying "im better than you" soon mostly all the world was against them and i see the same thing happening with us over the years our country thinks were the shit and supirior to everyone when its all just an illusion. What is a fact is america thinks its the world police. have you heard there trying to ban fat people eating at resturants damn! i thought the drug war would make the fascists happy now they want MORE POWER. Even if its in a particular state thats just stupid.

[JD1stTimer]

8182skush, you wanna talk about taxes? I make 13,000 dollars per year in my only contract, and I get taxed at more than 10% to the IRS, I just paid $2400 for a yearly property tax, my car tax is around $100, I pay 8.25% sales tax on all non-grocery items I need, $0.50 cents on each gallon of gas I use to go to work. I do have some debt I'm working on clearing up, but here I am unable to buy food and I'm paying taxes out the wazoo. For lunch and dinner today I ate hash browns and french fries that my housesitter left in my freezer when I had to go visit some family. What do I get for all these taxes? A war in Iraq which I can't see any benefit from, the roadways which aren't toll roads yet, and mail delivery (Although even that should technically be paid for independently of government funding, but I don't believe that for a minute). So tell me we are not taxed too much.. ! As far as descending into fascism, most people don't care because no one does anything that any dictator would ever want to restrict. Even Hitler would let people watch football, eat wurst, and drink beer as long as they were in the right class. The only difference is that we now realize that everyone's money is equal, so racial discrimination is just impractical. If most people enjoyed intellectual exercise..... whoo boy, we'd see some rollin' and shakin' in this country. :) Thankfully the schools have done brainectomies on all the students so they won't have to worry about all that stinky-thinky. Remember, a freeman is just like a slave except you don't have to whip him. He'll whip himself for you with a smile on his face, and thank you for giving him dirty water. His shackles are imaginary, but he refuses to imagine a rasp.

[8182KSKUSH]

oh i will live in my world keeps me prepared for anything:D able to adapt, i feel sorry for people who cant open there mind when things change there up a shit creek :jointsmile:. just saying i dont like people saying this country is the greatest because thats only a opinion not a fact and a brainwashed opinon at that :thumbsup:. Thats what did in germany hitler and all his followers saying "im better than you" soon mostly all the world was against them and i see the same thing happening with us over the years our country thinks were the shit and supirior to everyone when its all just an illusion. What is a fact is america thinks its the world police. have you heard there trying to ban fat people eating at resturants damn! i thought the drug war would make the fascists happy now they want MORE POWER. Even if its in a particular state thats just stupid.

So um, let me see if I have this right, I don't have an open mind because I don't agree with you? I am not entitled to my opinion because I don't agree with you? Ok, glad we got that cleared up. And by the way, what YOU THINK of America, that's also, just an opinion.:D

[8182KSKUSH]

8182skush, you wanna talk about taxes? I make 13,000 dollars per year in my only contract, and I get taxed at more than 10% to the IRS, I just paid $2400 for a yearly property tax, my car tax is around $100, I pay 8.25% sales tax on all non-grocery items I need, $0.50 cents on each gallon of gas I use to go to work. I do have some debt I'm working on clearing up, but here I am unable to buy food and I'm paying taxes out the wazoo. For lunch and dinner today I ate hash browns and french fries that my housesitter left in my freezer when I had to go visit some family. What do I get for all these taxes? A war in Iraq which I can't see any benefit from, the roadways which aren't toll roads yet, and mail delivery (Although even that should technically be paid for independently of government funding, but I don't believe that for a minute). So tell me we are not taxed too much.. ! As far as descending into fascism, most people don't care because no one does anything that any dictator would ever want to restrict. Even Hitler would let people watch football, eat wurst, and drink beer as long as they were in the right class. The only difference is that we now realize that everyone's money is equal, so racial discrimination is just impractical. If most people enjoyed intellectual exercise..... whoo boy, we'd see some rollin' and shakin' in this country. :) Thankfully the schools have done brainectomies on all the students so they won't have to worry about all that stinky-thinky. Remember, a freeman is just like a slave except you don't have to whip him. He'll whip himself for you with a smile on his face, and thank you for giving him dirty water. His shackles are imaginary, but he refuses to imagine a rasp.

Last I checked, property taxes are not federal. Niether are sales taxes, and if you pay taxes on a contract or commission, then you have Bill Clinton to thank for that, 1996, ring a bell?:thumbsup:

[JD1stTimer]

Yeah, sorry I should have read the whole thread. When Blue said that taxes were bad on the middle class, I didn't realize she was talking about the income tax alone. I thought it was the entire tax burden of an average American she was talking about.
You're right about the IRS, it's not that bad. For me making $13,000, holding on to about $1600 really doesn't hurt too bad. I actually do eat at least once a day, which is better than most people on this earth. I couldn't make the claim that we have worse tax burden on middle and lower class than Canada, I've never lived there. Is there anyone on these boards who knows how the middle and lower class fare in the Great White North? BTW, I'm not taking any sort of government aid beyond what everyone else gets (Roads, mail, defense [maybe, I've never been sure whether or not people in Iraq were actually threatening me]) I'm not on welfare, or food stamps, or SSI, or Medicare, and I have reason to believe that a significant portion of the tax I pay is going towards a program I will never see the benefits of (Social Security). And I have no sympathy for Bill Clinton, either.

[JD1stTimer]

On another note, it really doesn't say much to say that we are the least bad country as far as freedom is concerned. The whole point of the U.S., and what helped us build our wealth is the freedom from intrusion and the restraint on the government which should be upheld by the legislators, executives, and judges. That means that no one should be locked in a cage for doing something that has no harmful effect to other people. The very fact that I can go out in a park today and pull out a little baggie of weed and get pushed to the ground, handcuffed and held against my will says that we are not living up to our ideals. We shouldn't judge by what other countries do, we should live up to our own excellent standards, not just descend to one rung above the rest, and then say "We're not the worst!". We should be raising the bar. I guess if I was married and beat my wife I could tell her "Hey, the guy next door rapes his kids, you wanna go live with him?" That's not the America I believe in.

[Iguana]

I'm in agreement with both of your messages (81 & 82), JD. When I say that the USA is the greatest, I honestly don't mean that as a put-down of any other country. I believe that the USA should be the standard of those nations that are ruled by the representrative government of the people. I do believe that we have a lot of things that we need to work on to put us back in the direction of as much personal freedom as possible. I don't believe (as others have said) that it is the govenment's responsibility to take care of us, just to give us the opportunity and liberty to take care of ourselves.

[fishman3811]

JD1stTIMER OUR FEDERAL taxes are not that bad we dont pay income tax on the first 9 or 10 thousand and after that its aroound 14% or 13% until u reach 29 thousand then it goes up a couple of points then 39 thousand it goes up a couple more points and so on.8182KSKUSH lots of Canadians move to the states i know of a couple actually and some of them actually come back to Canada,Canada has lots of immigrants too so does that make Canada the best country in the world because according to you it should.So if you base your theory that America is the best country in the world because America gets lots of immigrants,Well most of your immigrants come from Mexico or latin America so being better than Mexico or South America doesnt say too much now does it??So i really want to know why you think America is the best country in the world based on what?Because sorry i just dont see it.I ve lived in France,Germany,England been to Belgium and Italy and Japan and all those countries are far superior than the U.S.A and i base that on how content the people are in those countries they are really much more happier than people are in U.S.A plus those people are way better educated than most Americans.Did u know that in England well up until a few years ago that a University education was free.Well of course u didnt know that youve never lived there.Did you know that if you were to open up a health club in Paris you wouldnt make any money because most people in Paris are not fat but of course you wouldnt know that youve never lived there.Also France has got one of the worlds best heath care and its free.So spare me your rants on how America is the best place in the world when You dont even know why.Besides any country that makes you take a drug test before you get hired on at Burger King isnt a country i want to live in.Any country that puts you in jail for 20 30 years for having a few marijuana plants in your house isnt the kind of country that i want to live in.I also dont want to own a gun just so that i feel safe thats not the kind of country i want to live in.Also if your country is the greatest on earth why are soo many people still displaced after what happened in New Orleans after all these years.

[Psycho4Bud]

Any country that puts you in jail for 20 30 years for having a few marijuana plants in your house isnt the kind of country that i want to live in.

Where the hell do they do that? PLEASE post a link to this fairy story.

Also if your country is the greatest on earth why are soo many people still displaced after what happened in New Orleans after all these years.

Take London Ontario and wipe out 80%.....lets see how well ya all fair out. :rolleyes:

By the way, all the "great countries" you mentioned; at one point or another WE either had to kick their ass or save it.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[thcbongman]

JD1stTIMER OUR FEDERAL taxes are not that bad we dont pay income tax on the first 9 or 10 thousand and after that its aroound 14% or 13% until u reach 29 thousand then it goes up a couple of points then 39 thousand it goes up a couple more points and so on.8182KSKUSH lots of Canadians move to the states i know of a couple actually and some of them actually come back to Canada,Canada has lots of immigrants too so does that make Canada the best country in the world because according to you it should.So if you base your theory that America is the best country in the world because America gets lots of immigrants,Well most of your immigrants come from Mexico or latin America so being better than Mexico or South America doesnt say too much now does it??So i really want to know why you think America is the best country in the world based on what?Because sorry i just dont see it.I ve lived in France,Germany,England been to Belgium and Italy and Japan and all those countries are far superior than the U.S.A and i base that on how content the people are in those countries they are really much more happier than people are in U.S.A plus those people are way better educated than most Americans.Did u know that in England well up until a few years ago that a University education was free.Well of course u didnt know that youve never lived there.Did you know that if you were to open up a health club in Paris you wouldnt make any money because most people in Paris are not fat but of course you wouldnt know that youve never lived there.Also France has got one of the worlds best heath care and its free.So spare me your rants on how America is the best place in the world when You dont even know why.Besides any country that makes you take a drug test before you get hired on at Burger King isnt a country i want to live in.Any country that puts you in jail for 20 30 years for having a few marijuana plants in your house isnt the kind of country that i want to live in.I also dont want to own a gun just so that i feel safe thats not the kind of country i want to live in.Also if your country is the greatest on earth why are soo many people still displaced after what happened in New Orleans after all these years.

Listen, but you haven't lived in America. Otherwise you would understand. Other than the States, I spent half of my life living in various countries in Europe.

Many of the points I do agree with you. America is moving in the wrong direction in terms of health care, expanding the industrial military complex, drug tolerance, we hare our share of problems. However, you judge America harshly because you have not experienced the opportunity here. America is the land of the free, where anyone can obtain success, and aren't limited to pursuing those opportunities. There are a number of immigrants who have experienced tremendous success and those stories travel across oceans. That's why they keep coming in.

Also contrary to popular belief some French people do like Bush, and their views reflects the mindset when they voted Sarkozy in. It was the biggest shock to me, it caused some weird debates.

[fishman3811]

thcbongman everybody is the same in this world what i object to is people claiming that they live in the worlds best country when they have never lived anywhere else so how the hell would they know?Your right America is full of opportunity but so are many other countries that have open and free elections. PEACE

[Rusty Trichome]

You seem more interested in post wars than talking about the truth.

The truth...? You can't handle the truth. (Jeepers, I crack myself up at times, lol)

Some of us here have a problem with checking facts. One liners and politi-babble counts for half of the truth. Where do you go to find the rest of the story? If you have been indoctrinated learning half of the truth, all you can spout is selective deception. So who is being decieved? I make a very strong attempt to double and triple check my facts from both sides of an issue. If my opinion differs from yours, that's life. I weigh the facts as available, and reference those facts whenever possible.
All's I hear in response is usually something like:
Dude...you are a facist for thinking it's ok to tap overseas calls.
or
I hate America...We're in Iraq because of oil....
Yeah...that really convinces me someone is capable of discerning fact from fiction. What oil? Are the tankers lining-up in Iraq to ship the oil over to us? What a joke.

So america haters...keep rambling, keep the blinders on, and show us all how you have come to such educated and balanced opinions.
The proof is in the proof.

Oh yeah, fisherman...in some countries they put you in for life, for pot possesion. (Midnight Express)

[Rusty Trichome]

thcbongman everybody is the same in this world what i object to is people claiming that they live in the worlds best country when they have never lived anywhere else so how the hell would they know?Your right America is full of opportunity but so are many other countries that have open and free elections. PEACE

I don't have to step in shit, to know that I don't want shit on my shoes, nor do I need to live in France to know I am proud to be an American.

Iran has 'open and free' elections
Russia has 'open and free' elections
Venezuela has 'open and free' elections
Pakistan has 'open and free' elections (if you survive the campaigning)

[8182KSKUSH]

The truth...? You can't handle the truth. (Jeepers, I crack myself up at times, lol)

Some of us here have a problem with checking facts. One liners and politi-babble counts for half of the truth. Where do you go to find the rest of the story? If you have been indoctrinated learning half of the truth, all you can spout is selective deception. So who is being decieved? I make a very strong attempt to double and triple check my facts from both sides of an issue. If my opinion differs from yours, that's life. I weigh the facts as available, and reference those facts whenever possible.
All's I hear in response is usually something like:
Dude...you are a facist for thinking it's ok to tap overseas calls.
or
I hate America...We're in Iraq because of oil....
Yeah...that really convinces me someone is capable of discerning fact from fiction. What oil? Are the tankers lining-up in Iraq to ship the oil over to us? What a joke.

So america haters...keep rambling, keep the blinders on, and show us all how you have come to such educated and balanced opinions.
The proof is in the proof.

Oh yeah, fisherman...in some countries they put you in for life, for pot possesion. (Midnight Express)

You are funny.
I wonder how the hell someone in Canada gets brainwashed by the elite liberal left in the U.S., just goes to show the power of t.v. I guess!:computerlove1: (Please don't take "offense" just funny to hear the same rhetoric from a Canadian that you would hear from someone at the "Highly Elite Berkley".)

You are right Rusty, you don't even have to try that hard to check some of these "way out of left field" statements. Just go OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AROUND!:asskick: I know that I trust my own judgement much more than what "someone on tells me". When I hear the spin misters talking about "a war for oil", I go fill up my suburban! I got a 40 gallon tank. Wouldn't you know it? Bush hasn't gotten all that oil back here yet that he "stole". :D:apachecopter::S1: So what the fuck is this "war for oil"?

I really like it when people cry about Haliburton or (insert any oil company name here). WAAAAA contracts blah blah, whatever. Personally I can't figure out why we give the best companies in the world at fixing, managing, and maintaining an oil infrastructure and industry a way to do just that. What would these lwbwlbrls rather have? Abdul in his dirt house that hasn't even used an electric stove repairing , rebuilding, and maintaining a fledgeling nations oil industry? OK:yeahright: No I know, some OTHER company in a foriegn nation right? :yeahright:

so if you are sooo opposed to what is going on in Iraq and miss Sadam and his regime, and feel like we did nothing to better the world, and "feel" (funny that word is used alot? It's ok if you are giving an opinion, but alot of people here "feel facts".? WTF:wtf:) that America is ruining the world or that we are evil and you oppose the "facist or whatever bull crap term you want to use that you don't even know the true meaning of) then you better pack up your shit and go to Iran, I heard they may need some Human Shields:apachecopter:

How do you "feel like" now?:D:S4:
Yet another reason America is great!!! Even though Bush did not do this, he could of. He could have decisively stomped a whole through the earth w/ brute military force in an instant and really just walked into a vast glass bowl and "stole" the oil if that's what his intentions were. The fact is that America as a nation at any instant could mobilize it's military might and destroy anyone they wanted and no one can really do a fucking thing about. The fact is that we DON'T do just this, we instead are content with providing a place where anyone with a pulse has the chance to do anything they can concieve. I think people do get really upset if you present the idea that America is Great, or The Greatest Nation, or Even Nice, or you get my point. They get upset because they would feel, um trying to be nice, they would feel like they were duped. People do get indoctrinated, they do get brainwashed, and it's pretty easy to control people when they are basing all their decisions on how they "feel", it's easy to manipulate the way insecure people feel. I think maybe there is some truth to the government trying to "control" people but I think that it is more to do with the "Hate America" Crowd and not anyone else.

IT'S REALLY REALLY FUNNY when people repeat propoganda that is perpetuated by self-proclaimed commies and socialists, and marxist. I am specifically talking about the morons that organize the protests at G8 summits, that try to get pictures of people with signs outside protesting. They get all sorts of people there, but I am betting that none of them actually have any remote idea who is in charge, and where their "feelings" are coming from. Then this gets on the news of course, and really dull and boring people cling onto the propoganda, don't question it, then run with it for years and years. Maybe someday THEY go to a protest, now they are really cool because they think exactly the same thing "all these other people think". Now they are committed and are true believers that lash out at anyone that questions them because they have no way to answer the questions, and they are offended that you could possibly be suggesting that what they have believed and felt for so long might be BULL SHIT!..

I am sorry I am kind of off topic and ranting.:stoned:

[8182KSKUSH]

thcbongman everybody is the same in this world what i object to is people claiming that they live in the worlds best country when they have never lived anywhere else so how the hell would they know?Your right America is full of opportunity but so are many other countries that have open and free elections. PEACE

My son gave me a shirt that says "world's greatest dad" but I am gonna give it back to him since he really doesn't know that I am in fact the world's greatest dad.

I don't understand what is wrong with expressing a positive perspective/opinion of America. It's called being Proud of Your Country. America is great because of the people that make up our nation. :D

[psychocat]

My son gave me a shirt that says "world's greatest dad" but I am gonna give it back to him since he really doesn't know that I am in fact the world's greatest dad.

I don't understand what is wrong with expressing a positive perspective/opinion of America. It's called being Proud of Your Country. America is great because of the people that make up our nation. :D


Unfortunately any greatness expressed by the people is undermined by your goverment.

[8182KSKUSH]

Unfortunately any greatness expressed by the people is undermined by your goverment.

O my god this guy?:wtf:
Yeah ok right back atcha I guess.

Despite all the problems and gripes there could be about America, it still has the best government on the planet. Don't go getting your panties in a wad, this is just my opinion, just like what you said was JUST AN OPINION.:D

[fishman3811]

8182KSKUSH your right about people being brainwashed just like your country was brainwashed into an illegal war with Iraq.Your also right that America can invade any country it wants too but your not right when you say it doesnt.So why did u invade Iraq was it the WMDs that were not there,or because of al- quada which Saddam had no ties too.Its really funny how you guys say its not about oil so what is it about then?

[8182KSKUSH]

8182KSKUSH your right about people being brainwashed just like your country was brainwashed into an illegal war with Iraq.Your also right that America can invade any country it wants too but your not right when you say it doesnt.So why did u invade Iraq was it the WMDs that were not there,or because of al- quada which Saddam had no ties too.Its really funny how you guys say its not about oil so what is it about then?

If it's about oil, then where's the .99 cent a gallon gas smart guy?
There is also a huge misconception about where the U.S. get's it's oil from. The majority of all the oil the U.S. imports comes from which country? I'll give you a hint, in that country, they eat freaking mayo on their french fries.:D By the way the #1 wmd was hung up by his neck.:thumbsup:

[fishman3811]

Rusty the guy in Midnight Express was not caught with weed but with hash.Your trying to defend your countries war on MJ when your country is putting more people in jail for non violent drug related offenses than any other country on this planet.The DEA uses Gestapo like tactics to bring so called drug users/sellers to jail then steals their houses cars and whatever else has value

[8182KSKUSH]

Who do you think will defend your nation when the time comes? Not gonna be your weak ass armed forces.:D

[8182KSKUSH]

Rusty the guy in Midnight Express was not caught with weed but with hash.Your trying to defend your countries war on MJ when your country is putting more people in jail for non violent drug related offenses than any other country on this planet.The DEA uses Gestapo like tactics to bring so called drug users/sellers to jail then steals their houses cars and whatever else has value

The DEA is the best agency of it's kind in the world, yeah I know it's not blah blah.

Anyway, they just are foolishly waging a war on pot.
:(

[Psycho4Bud]

Its really funny how you guys say its not about oil so what is it about then?

Oh yes, the oil........sure was about it! The U.S. sent in the troops to make sure that Canada could one of the first countries, ahead of the U.S., to secure oil rights. We've been across this one before....the links are just as easy to find.

Have a good one!:s4:

[BlueCat00]

8182KSKUSH your right about people being brainwashed just like your country was brainwashed into an illegal war with Iraq.Your also right that America can invade any country it wants too but your not right when you say it doesnt.So why did u invade Iraq was it the WMDs that were not there,or because of al- quada which Saddam had no ties too.Its really funny how you guys say its not about oil so what is it about then?

Anyone that still thinks it is not about oil is not paying attention.

You are right. Great posts! :thumbsup:

[BlueCat00]

i think the most scary thing is maybe being the end. i mean clinton got us out of debt and made things right in the middle east, bush fucks it up, next presitdent...does what??? according to the bible the prophecy has almost been fulfilled so im not exactly worried for america. more about everyone as a whole is what im most concerned about.

Great point, I think we need to worry about everyone too.

[BlueCat00]

its not that Americans are spend thrifts or greedy, they dont want no hand outs from anyone !, its Americans
own money, they want back. The money they worked for, money the gov takes! give Americans, free groceries! not soylent 'crackers', groceries are way too, high priced!

Mills and manufacturing have went by the wayside because
of 'partnership for a drug free America" pissheads, they cant keep the workers! The best ones are getting tested for stupid reasons!

the best workers are getting fired for failed drug test

give Americans a friggin break!

stay out of our dam underwear!!


:(:mad::hippy::wtf::cool::stoned:


Yeah silkyblue! Amen!

[Psycho4Bud]

I deleted a few posts in here. The people in here that posted know why! If ya want to debate....GREAT, if your going to make slight accusations not appreciated on a cannabis site, don't bother.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[8182KSKUSH]

Clinton getting us out of debt? Got things right in the middle east?

Is this the twilight zone?:wtf:
I must be high.:stoned:

[O. G. ganja smoker]

So um, let me see if I have this right, I don't have an open mind because I don't agree with you? I am not entitled to my opinion because I don't agree with you? Ok, glad we got that cleared up. And by the way, what YOU THINK of America, that's also, just an opinion.:D no and stop distorting my words not that i care but why im saying you dont have a open mind and ALOT of people are like this that you refuse to take in account of what can change the world changes. you say i can live in my made up world well in a disater situation that HAPPENDS and is not hypothetical people who think that there money will matter are screwed what will matter is know-how. Aye is that Richard Kuklinski in your avatar that dudes bad ass

[8182KSKUSH]

no and stop distorting my words not that i care but why im saying you dont have a open mind and ALOT of people are like this that you refuse to take in account of what can change the world changes. you say i can live in my made up world well in a disater situation that HAPPENDS and is not hypothetical people who think that there money will matter are screwed what will matter is know-how.

Can someone translate this for me?:wtf: What the hell are you talking about with reference to money exatcly? I am confused, or is this where we get the "class warfare" rhetoric started for no apparent reason? If that's what's going on then ok I guess whatever. :wtf: I don't understand how you are invoking that liberal battle cry on this thread about what scares you in America, unless you are getting at some how saying people in america that have money are scary? Apparently I am 1 scary sob! I am in America, I could be 1 of the 5 scary things awesome!

[O. G. ganja smoker]

never mind dude we had a good convo for a second there untill u went genious on me but im saying what scares me is people thinking money matters most

[8182KSKUSH]

never mind dude we had a good convo for a second there untill u went genious on me

yeah I didn't really see where you were gonna go with that one huh? Takes some of the luster out of it when I pull the sheet away.

[Psycho4Bud]

I only clean up slop for so long.....this one is CLOSED!:mad:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[8182KSKUSH]

:wtf:
if the shoe fits though:thumbsup: i said you were a genious dont get butt hurt anyways its hard to debate when you started off the debate stoned and ended up sober lol no hard feeling tho its all good unless we met each other then its all bad i tend to take stuff more personal in person;)

how could you take anything on a forum "personally"?:wtf:

[FakeBoobsRule]

I guess P4B meant to close it but didn't we all make mistakes. From what I could tell he closed it not because he agreed or disagreed with the opinions here but because it went from a debate to a flame war.

Blue Cat, I don't remember you before your hiatus but don't start accusing moderators of being biased. That's not going to win you points. You should realize that you have a great deal of responsibility of fueling this flame war as many of the deleted posts in this thread were written by you.

[Psycho4Bud]

I guess P4B meant to close it but didn't we all make mistakes. From what I could tell he closed it not because he agreed or disagreed with the opinions here but because it went from a debate to a flame war.

Blue Cat, I don't remember you before your hiatus but don't start accusing moderators of being biased. That's not going to win you points. You should realize that you have a great deal of responsibility of fueling this flame war as many of the deleted posts in this thread were written by you.

Damn straight on all counts but I'll tell ya what.......last night was the LAST time this type of childish bullshit is going on in here! Club Gitmo open your gates.....I got a feeling that we may have some future buisiness!

If ANYBODY in here wants to make false accusations about people then whine about being spanked later.....go to another forum; this one is for ADULTS!:mad:

Have a good one!:jointsmile: