droopy leaf problem

[marijuanavillebilly]

-indoor or outdoor - indo
-soil, soilless, or hydroponic - soil
-specific medium organic/non-organic mix
-Soil type/brand - miracle grow moisture control/organic choice (i bumed this from lowes the bag was leakin) :)
-Hydro/aero/soilless system type - styrofoam cup about 6 inces around 8 inches deep with 15 tooth pick sized holes for drainage
-Anything you have added to the soil - small amount of rooting compound (that was weeks ago)
-Soil pH - nobody sells gardening supplies in my neck of the woods this time of year :( can i use a pool tester?
-Water source - 99.9% rain fall (straight from sky not off roof)
-Water pH - 6.5-7.2 mainly
-Age of plant - about 4 weeks
-Type of fertilizer MG liquid feed highly diluted (havent added any yet)
-Rate of application - once every 4 waterings (very light ammounts)
-Lighting source and distance from plant - 2 43 watt cool sunlight CFL and 3 20 watt warm light CFL in a shiny white kitty litter bucket.
-Temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) - day 70-80 night 55-60 its winter
-% Relative humidity - idk i guess about 30%
-Lighting schedule - 12/12
-Type of ventilation your room has - 2 comp fans one suckin and one blowin one on the top half of the right side and the other is on the bottom half of the left side.

the leaves are turning light green? they where droopy and real dark now their drropy and light green.

i know the droop is half geneitcs and half over watering. even if the soil drys up the leavse perk but dont completely stop drooping.

[marijuanavillebilly]

could this be because of ph?
what is the ph?
and do the pots have good drainage?

[marijuanavillebilly]

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i have a vid of the problem. its getting worse!

[stinkyattic]

That hosting site is timing out on me- possibly high holiday traffic- can you post as an attachment? When you hit 'post reply' there is a field called 'manage attachments' and that will attach a thumbnail to your message so we cna see better.
Lol @ avatar, mario bros is a classic.

[marijuanavillebilly]

YouTube - the plant and grow box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYNuYgvle0E)
link to video ^

images v (i forgot to set image quality to best)

[Zcomp]

Few things.
Any wind actually fluttering the leaves?(to remove stale air trapped around each leaf).
Styrofoam may leach chemicals into your soil(though I've never used Styrofoam).
In a pinch, you can use an aqaurium PH tester. Try to find one with a large scale(5ph-10ph). Be sure to get the freshwater, saltwater tester are inappropriate. Test the water your using. Then just test the soil runoff. Imagine the PH of water being changed by the PH of the soil before running out the bottom.I.E. 7PH water, 6PH runoff = about 5PH soil going up due to the now added 7PH.
Walmart sells combo temp/humidity digital meters for about $10.
PH up and PH down can be found in the pool section, by the names sodium carbonate and sodium Bisulfate respectively. I've been told that those are plant safe.
After all that, there may be a lack of nutes problem. But please examine that one LAST.
MG soil, usually contains nutes already. MG soil tends to start dropping in PH soon after the nutes start being used. A flush may be in order(Rainwater for that one. Probably has the most correct PH to start.). Flush should also be look at last, after you've tested PH, if its extremely off, then Flush may be the way to go.

[stinkyattic]

You need more perlite in the soil when you re-pot.
Looks like a pH problem and possibly lack of calcium.
Lose the rainwater and switch to tap. This may sound strange, but tap water is actually preferable. Rain coming off your roof has a number of issues- no calcium or magnesium, which are found in tap water and the plant needs. Acid rain- nitric and sulfuric acid- no good. No calcium carbonate means less capacity to buffer pH. Tap water is better.

Foliar feed right away with a very dilute solution of your miracle grow fertilizer to stop the deficiency from getting worse. Flush with tap water, poke EXTRA holes, and allow to dry pretty well before next feeding. One of the problems looks like overwatering actually.

[marijuanavillebilly]

the fan makes the plant wave like a freakin drunk idiot...roommate. XD
i think my roomate waters it while im out cuz the soil gets dry on the top, yet this is normal causes root growth...right?
and i nuteralized the nutes with a firm boiling of a miracle grow soil/water mix.
i have humus/manure/peatmoss "organic choice" (the perliteless soil you see now) around the transplanted plant.
peatmoss is bad after a while from what ive seen of stinkys posts. =)
and if you watched the vid you could have seen the grow box, and plant.
im going to lowes to get vermiculite and perlite tomorrow.
the box has aluminum foil tape in it to cover up holes that where unwanted and the plant is on a 18/6 cycle but the temps get to about 40F in the 6 hours so the plant gets purple and turns back to green can i use this to my advantage?

[marijuanavillebilly]

i found some pool ph stabilizer. its in the pool pro bags, is it safe?
and im gunna get a humidity/temp meter today also.
what can i use other than mylar for a small enclosed area?
would thick white blankets work?
how bout a duct tape colored tarp?

[stinkyattic]

Don't use pool pH kits. Wrong chemicals.
No blankets, too flammable. Flat white paint is good. Tarps not good. Mylar camping/emergency blankets from camping section of walmart are better.
Let soil dry out between waterings.
40'F is WAY too cold and that's one of your main problems. Don't let it get below 60'F or above 85'F ever.
Please read the link in my signature for a bunch of useful info.

[marijuanavillebilly]

i have read that. like 50 times
i bought a heater 1500 watt adjustable w/fan.
and i bought a pack of ph testers.(fresh water only kind) how do i get the ph where i want with these?
vermiculite and perlite are like 45$ a bag right now. any online shops that are cheap?

ill give you the ph numbers (when i get them) so you can get a better grasp at the task i need to preform.

[Zcomp]

verm and perlite should only be about $5 for a good size bag.
PH stabilizer.... I have no idea what that is.

To stinky, Do you mean that my PH up and PH down are the wrong chemicals? I know you can't use most pool stuff but the PH up/down that I got were alternative's to some harsher chemicals. My PH down for example, uses sodium bisulfate as an alternative to muriatic acid.
If they are wrong, I wouldn't have noticed until I started using them, so thanks for the correction either way.
The top layer of soil will dry out quickly due to the airflow around the soil, If you stick your finger in and break the soil, you'll probably notice that it is already moist underneath, That usually means you don't need to water yet.

[marijuanavillebilly]

ok so how do i use these strips the soil is about 5.8-6.0 ph what do i do to get it back up.
i guess im just gunna ride my happy arse up to lowes. :(
but itll be worth it in the end.
im thinkin about doing what you preach stinky from what i see here, vermiculite and perlite mix it with organic humus and manure.
and the leaves are always harsh dry what does this mean? low humidity?
if so could i put the plant in the bath room when i got the shower running. (steam gets wrinkles out of clothes)
and im moving her up to a 3 gallon pot very soon. (if she makes it any longer)
also i caught my buddy blowin TOBACCO smoke in the grow bucket!
he said he was waterin it, and i was like WTF! he didnt lie about the waterin.
so i gave him a good preach.
i said when you drink/smoke stay outta my room.
im gunna take pics of the stuff that i think would be usefull while im at lowes. thx for all the support guys and gal. ;)

[Zcomp]

You got the strips? All you gotta do is water until some comes out the bottom of the pot, Collect that into a beaker(or anything that holds water), And dip your strip.
I usually use the reagent one. but then I need exactly 5ml of water or my test starts going off. I stole a dropper off a baby aspirin bottle. It has up to 1ml marked.
Tobacco smoke will kill your plant. Nicotine will keep bugs away but the tar will coat and suffocate the leaves. Best to keep the cigs away. Like stinky says, let it dry out completely before watering again.
I have waited to water too long before, All that happened was droopy looking weak plants, After a good watering, They sprung back up within hours.

[marijuanavillebilly]

soil hardness is 100+
and ph is 8.0+
how do i fix it

[marijuanavillebilly]

if the plant survives this is their a good chance of herming?
and do most herm seeds become female, or half and half herm and fem?

[Zcomp]

Maybe, Maybe not. All seeds would be female but usually the herm happens too late to form mature seeds by harvest.
You can lower PH with lemon juice diluted with water(then test the water PH you want 6-6.5 area) then flush with corrected water.
Get some bottled water for this, Your tap water is very high in PH and hardness(which measures how long it will hold that PH), Ferts are usually very low PH, but you don't want to flush with nute water.
Once you get that PH corrected, It is supposed to start falling in PH each time you add nutes. brb

[stinkyattic]

Zcomp has great info.
Hardness in tap water is largely composed of Calcium carbonate, and will buffer your pH quite high- HOLD it there, despite efforts to change it.
In your case, I would not even go with lemon juice because you will be fiddling with it for so long. Get a bottle of pH down and a proper liquid indicator whil you're at it if the strips are annoying (thye annoy me kinda lol!) Flush with water at pH 6.0 and that should fairly quickly bring you down to the magic 6.7 point where cannabis is happiest.
Just keep an eye out for herms. You may be fine, or not; no way to tell until you're there!

[marijuanavillebilly]

i hate the strips!
i used like 20 getting a bucket of waters ph in the right spot with pool chemicals.
i had that water so doped up it fizzed when i sloshed it around.
so i gave up on that idea.
i have a bag of that miracle grow that i boiled the nutes out of mixed with some bagged top soil.
the plant is extremely dry and brittle i tried misting with a light nute solution, did nto good.
and im thingkin about repotting into a bigger pot really soon.
would this help my case any?
also how do i soften water? do i tenderize it for a while, like meat?

[stinkyattic]

pool chemicals! oh no! FLUSH NOW!!! that is NOT good for plants. Gotta use plant up/down.
Boiling doesn't remove nutes. Flsuhing does. Heat does not break down chem ferts or remove them.
Don't worry about softening water unless it's realy bad. If it is, you might consider a RO system for your house or going to bottled distilled water. With either, you must add calmag plus. BUT....
Generally, hard water is fine in soil situations. That isn't your problem. It would be if you were hydro.

[marijuanavillebilly]

no no no, i used it to mess with to see if it would work with tap water.
im not that stupid! are you callin me stupid stinky?
but you can make carbonated water with ph up and down mixed together at the same time!
i know just boiling doesnt i used the extreme heat to break open the nute balls so it ould be flushed out when i put it in to my soil drainer. (bucket with big flat thing and a vice to press water out)
ok so plant up and down. the closest plant and garden shop is about 30 miles away.
gas is 3.10$ a gallon. i dont think im gunna go there.
what are some other ways to do this?
and i got more soil ill upload a pic in the morning.

[stinkyattic]

pH up is Potassium hydroxide, NaOH. pH down is Phosphoric acid, H3PO4. No carbon from either source. I'm not sure how you expect to get CO2 from that. You can get CO2 from adding acid to limestone (CaCO3) though.
White distilled or cider vinegar is a passable pH down but you will have to check much more often.
When did I ever use the word stupid or imply anything of the sort? We all go through the DIY phase before learning what you can and cannot improvise.

[marijuanavillebilly]

i was joking about the "stupid" thing.
i was talkin about the pool chems making the Co2.
i got up this morning checked the box and i found a stick with a pile of shriveled leaves around it.
the box reaked of ammonia.
i pulled the plant up took the soil and reboiled it, sifted through it with a fork and collected the roots, drained the soil, and nuked it in the microwave till it was dry because the soil reaked of ammonia.
i think my roomate was putting nutes on it for me also!
i went and got a door and pad-lock. (combonation lock no key :) )
my landlord said it was chill to put one in, i just gotta replace the doorframe when i move out.
what causes the ammonia smell?