Sad, Sad Plants

[dejayou30]

I have six plants that are 30 days into flower and two of them are extremely droopy with their leaves sagging. I have no idea what happened. I didn't add anything to the res but I did change it on Thursday night which was the first night after the first one started drooping. The only difference in my methods has been the addition of CalMag at half strength and I also got some Sweet that I start using Friday at 50%.

The first one that got droopy looked like a plant you would see in a magazine; nice tight nodes and young frosted buds clear up the whole thing. Then one day the leaves just lost all strength and have been hanging for about four days now. The roots look fine.

The second drooper started two days ago, and it was the one that has eaten most of its leaves due to the nitrogen deficiency. I think has some root issues because they are brown and matted together, so I have been using 1 tbsp of 30% H202 every other day since the res change Thursday to try to get them healthy again.

It looks a lot like when my mother went limp due to over/under watering, except not quite as limp. Its more the leaves sagging than the stems. I cut the waterings back to 5 over 12 hours rather than 6; one hour after lights on and before lights off and three in between. My pH is 5.6-6.1 (got a new meter) and my PPM has been 1600-1800 and I will probably dilute it back down to around 1600 tonight. Anyone have any idea what might be going on?

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

what nutes you use?

[dejayou30]

Pure Blend Pro grow and bloom.

[Weedhound]

yep.....you're way overnuting. I'd drop the number back to NO MORE than1400 and if it were me.....I'd keep it at 1300.

Can't leave you alone for a minute...eh deja? :D

[Weedhound]

Hold it....why are you flowering with veg nutes? Did I read that right?

[dejayou30]

Damn, I guess not! Well in my defense, in my reading online, I found a lot of people feed higher in bloom, and I found somewhere that said 1800 was about tops they would go so I have been keeping mine around 1600 and then diluting once it hits 1800. And rhizome said I probably have a heavy feeder so I have kept it a little higher. I'll see what I can drop it to once the lights turn on and hope they can turn around.

And yes, I have been using veg nutes to get a little more nitrogen. My plants were consuming themselves at an alarming rate. I and going to be switching to straight flowering nutes before Thanksgiving since what's left of the leaves have finally started being green again.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

yea lookin like nute burn

[klondike_bar]

why are there never piccies!!!!?

[Weedhound]

poor klondike.

Deja I ran into the same problem and here's the answer to it. Rhizome isn't wrong (is he ever??) but different meters read ppms differently. You and I have both have hannas....rhizomes going off a truncheon which reads differently. For a hanna meters...stick with 1500 tops with the botanicare stuff....but I'd drop back quite a ways to rest them from the nute burn and give them time to recover. In fact w/you I'd probaby drop them back to about 1/2 strength for a few.

[Weedhound]

Yes switch to the bloom nutes asap....CalMag has plenty of nitrogen in it for blooming plants. In fact, too much nitrogen in bloom can inhibit flowering so you want your CalMAg and Bloom nutes. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Deja just read your other post and see now why you have nitrogen everywhere. When Rhizome talked about addng grow nutes I got the feeling he meant for the first 2 weeks....I do that as well but then switch to total bloom nutes WITH CalMag by day 15 (starting number at bloom....1100...WITH LK and Sweet) (In fact Rhizome actually ragged me for having too much CalMag/nitrogen in my bloom nutes at one point.....) Confusing isn't it?

[dejayou30]

I got it down to 1400 PPM. My PPM meter is a SunLeaves pen meter. I calibrated it tonight and it read 1K right when I stuck it into the solution. My piece of shit pH meter is the Hanna.

As far as the nutes, I was already on like the third week when the plants started consuming themselves, so I wanted to get them stable before going to straight bloom. They have been pretty steady, so I will do straight bloom when I change it next.

The one plant is looking really really bad; dry and curled up and the top bud is kind of curling over. Is it possible that it will be able to bounce back?

And as always, thanks for the help everyone!:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

thats kind of iffy if it's pretty burnt....the parts that are damaged will simply stay that way unfortunately but I couldn't tell you about new growth. Sounds bad enough....maybe it would make some nice cookies or something.

Does your ppm meter have an e/c or mS/cm reading? If so and you can get both THAT number AND the ppm number at the same time you can work out at what conversion your meter reads. All I know is that its done by some sort of calculation by the meter and some meters read x500 conversion.. (hanna) and Rhizome mentioned to me that the truncheon he likes reads at x 700 conversion. So calibrating it to its OWN solution won't tell you what the conversion is.....make any sense.? However, it may be listed in your ppm manuel.

Good luck deja.. ;)

Ps...Bloom nutes AND Cal Mag.....

[Gundari]

Did you ever get your other yellowing problems fixed or are these one and the same problems dejay?

[dejayou30]

Yeah, the yellowing stopped, but it was pretty much too late for one of the plants. The second one to get droopy was the really yellow one and it ended up eating almost the leaves off entire bottom half of the plant. The one next to it is missing leaves off the bottom quarter or so. The tops looks well but the bottom of the one is really bare. At least two of the plants are looking very nice and healthy so my experience hasn't been a total wash.

As for the really burnt looking one, most of the leaves are soft moist and don't look like they are burned too bad so hopefully they can bounce back. That conversion stuff is way over my head, and my manual didn't say anything about it, so I have no clue. Why is it important to know?

[Weedhound]

No it isnt....just a fyi that ppm numbers can mean different things to different meters. Sounds to me like yours reads at a different conversion than Rhiz.

Usually when plants burn they droop and get somewhat curly looking get very soft feeling and then dry up, and turn brown. Hopefully you will see that plant going back the other way now so keep an close eye on them.

PS...if you don't see them start to improve I would consider dropping your ppm number back even more.

[dejayou30]

Yeah some of the lower leaves are at the dried brown stage, but the higher parts seems like maybe they have some life left. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I thought about dropping it back again tomorrow, but I also don't want to underfeed since only 2 of the plants are struggling with the high PPMs. I guess I will just see what happens over the next couple days. Thanks for the help!

[Weedhound]

No problem...hope that works for you. :)

[dejayou30]

Thought about it today and decided I should lower it more, so its at around 1050-1100 right now and my fingers are crossed. Will they perk back up after a few hours or will it take a couple days if they do at all?

[PharmaCan]

DJ - I don't see any mention of Micro anywhere. Are you using it? My Grow is 2-1-6; Micro 5-0-1. As you can see, the Micro has a lot more N in it than the Grow.

PC :smokin:

[MVP]

I'm using the botanicare stuff too and WH is right. IMO you might even want to drop them back to 800 ppm until they start to rebound. Also Liquid Karma is a good micro to use with Sweet and PBP.

[dejayou30]

Not sure what you mean by Micro... I use PBP, CalMag, Sweet, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme. Any of those micros or what are micros?

[Weedhound]

Not sure what you mean by Micro... I use PBP, CalMag, Sweet, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme. Any of those micros or what are micros?

Me too Deja...except I use cannazyme so HA!! :D No those aren't micros....I don't think......:confused:

PC isn't the Micro from GH? I don't really know.....I know Botanicare doesn't make it. Quite honestly....I'm not sure WHAT it is....:eek:

I don't know about MVP but when I try to go over 1500 my plants start to burn. (MVP what kind of meter do you use?) I DO like his suggestion to drop them back more (which you did) and I thnk it may take a few days IF you are going to see an improvemnt. Do keep an eye on your two that look ok and make sure they are continuing to grow well.

[MVP]

Micro = micronutrient (There are about eight nutrients essential to plant growth and health that are only needed in very small quantities. These are manganese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese), boron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron), copper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper), iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron), chlorine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine), cobalt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt), molybdenum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum), and zinc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc). Though these are present in only small quantities, they are all necessary)

Karma is a micro, and Sweet provides a bit too. Sounds like just too much altogether for the plants to handle from what I read above.

[MVP]

I don't know about MVP but when I try to go over 1500 my plants start to burn. (MVP what kind of meter do you use?) I DO like his suggestion to drop them back more (which you did) and I thnk it may take a few days IF you are going to see an improvemnt. Do keep an eye on your two that look ok and make sure they are continuing to grow well.

I use the Hanna Primo PPM meter, and the Hanna pHep 4 PH/Temp pen. They have worked great for me but I am getting to be pretty A/R about checking the calibration... guess that is a good thing tho. And yeah, mine burn or lock out using the Botanicare stuff over 1500 PPM.

[Weedhound]

I see what you mean...but I think GH makes some CALLED GH Micro....I thought...

PC....Can you clarify which one you meant?