Remote or complete legalization?

[BathingApes]

In your opinion, do you think it would be better to legalize drugs that have been proven to have no physically addictive symptoms etc, such as marijuana, but leave ones such as H and charlie illegal,

OR, make all drugs legal for PRIVATE CONSUMPTION by adults.




For me, its definitely the second one. Nobody has the right to tell me what I can't do to my own body in the privacy of my own home. When it starts to effect others, then it becomes a problem. But otherwise, we should be allowed to do whatever we want to ourselves. There should not be laws againt me altering my state of mind.

[ntcrawler]

I would like to say the second one just to take the potential money from unsavory and violent drug dealers/cartels. It would also allow safer drugs that you wouldn't have to worry about what you are actually getting. I still think there would be some unforeseeable repercussions but the only way to find out is too legalize it. Good luck with that though.

On the subject of number one I would be pretty satisfied with just that. I guess marijuana, MDMA, mushrooms, LSD would be on that list among others. The illegality of MDMA in the US makes it hard to get actual/pure MDMA and can some times be cut with or strictly methamphetamine.

[Mr. Clandestine]

I hate to break it to you, but heroin/PCP/meth, etc., will never become legal...and for good reason: they can all quickly either kill you, or ruin your entire life altogether.

It's a nice thought that you should have the right to put any chemical in your body that you so desire...but, unless you've ever actually been addicted to said chemicals, you have no idea what you're missing by NOT using these drugs. And I don't mean that in a positive way whatsoever.

Many/most of these drugs are HIGHLY addictive, entirely toxic to the human body, and detrimental to the mind. What would be the purpose of legalizing something that has been proven to make otherwise normal citizens rob their own mothers just to get another fix? Heroin can, and will, do this. So will any other drug that someone feels he/she MUST have in order to make it through another day. Hard drugs commonly lead to domestic issues, as well. Everything from spousal abuse to excessive noise pollution (and much, much worse) are common in people who have been on a weeklong meth binge. Why cause more social and domestic issues by allowing these mindsets to flourish legally?

There are many good reasons to legalize - or at least decriminalize - marijuana. Plenty of studies have concluded that marijuana doesn't lead to violence or insanity. The same can't be said about heroin, crack, etc. Medical grade marijuana has been proven to be beneficial to patients suffering from cancer, multiple sclerosis, AIDS, ADD, etc., etc., etc. And more positive uses are being discovered all the time, lending even more reason for the government to consider its legalization. I don't know of any medical benefits that crack cocaine gives to the people who regularly use it. Industrial hemp has thousands of innovative possibilities that could positively benefit the American economy. Especially now, when rising oil prices are driving more Americans to consider alternate methods to fuel their vehicles. Ethanol can be produced from hemp plants. I could go on forever about the positive uses, but I'll refrain, so as not to bore you any further.

I know I can't change your stance on this subject. Only you can do that. Read up a little bit more on the lives these synthetic chemicals have ruined, and continue to ruin to this day. If you're addicted to one (or more) of these chemicals, then you can get help...and can eventually abstain from ever feeling the need to use them again. I did, and I couldn't be happier. I now have a wonderful family, I own my own business, and I have an entirely positive outlook on the rest of my life. None of this would have been possible if I had decided to continue shoving boat-loads of cocaine up my nose, day-in and day-out.

Experience is the mother of intuitiveness. I've experienced it all, and now I'll only stick with my beloved cannabis. There's a damn good reason for this.

[bumclot]

I feel that drugs that are man-made should stay illegal. Even though heroin and cocaine start from plants, they have to go through a lot of processing before they can be used. To outlaw plants that grow out of the ground, cannabis, shrooms, whatever, is stupid though. Imagine lowering someone out of a helicopter by a rope just to tear out what are basically some shrubs, it's ridiculous but its done all the time.

Total legalization has its pluses too though. If all drugs were legal, much more government money could be spent on drug awareness and rehabilitation programs rather than policing the problem. If there's no demand for hard drugs then there won't be any.

[Reefer Rogue]

I believe that cannabis should be legal everywhere, I wish to live free of oppresion and arbitrary legislation for the self regarding choice that i make.

[Mr. Clandestine]

If there's no demand for hard drugs then there won't be any.

Sorry, but that's just entirely false. You're right that total legalization would free up money for other programs, but it certainly would not solve America's drug problem by ending demand.

I'm not sure if you know many people who are addicted to any of the real dangerous chemicals...but, if you did, you'd understand that they most definitely would not abstain from their drug of choice just because there's plenty of it around. That's not the way addiction works, unfortunately.

[Psycho4Bud]

Great thread with potential of self-destruction. Lets make SURE to keep it on the subject matter and not a "I did this" thread.:thumbsup:

Myself, I say legalize everything. People will find it anyways....why plug up the jails and put money into the hands of those that shouldn't have it. Tax the substance to help pay for the after effects in the health care/treatment phase.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Mr. Clandestine]

Lets make SURE to keep it on the subject matter and not a "I did this" thread.:thumbsup:

Sorry. I tend to preach about this subject pretty regularly, as it hits pretty close to home for me.


Tax the substance to help pay for the after effects in the health care/treatment phase.


I like your idea, and I respect the advocacy for "all-out" legalization, but...wouldn't regulation/taxation create the same issue that we're seeing with alcohol and tobacco in our schools? A lot of kids are trying alcohol and tobacco at young ages now, because technically it's legal...if you're over a certain age. They see their parents using it, other kids using it, and eventually they think about using it, too. I don't want my daughter getting suspended from school for anything...period. But I know I'd be considerably more irate if I were told that she has been suspended for shooting smack in the back of the classroom, or smoking PCP in the locker room.

My own opinion is that we should at least start with marijuana. If/when things go well, then maybe start thinking about the other psychedelic and organic edibles! :D

[bumclot]

Sorry, but that's just entirely false. You're right that total legalization would free up money for other programs, but it certainly would not solve America's drug problem by ending demand.

I'm not sure if you know many people who are addicted to any of the real dangerous chemicals...but, if you did, you'd understand that they most definitely would not abstain from their drug of choice just because there's plenty of it around. That's not the way addiction works, unfortunately.
I guess that is an oversimplification. But would things be a lot worse if all drugs were legal? True, I only know a few people that use hard drugs, but from what I have seen from documentaries and other sources, hardcore addicts don't seem to have trouble getting drugs, and it also seems rehabilitation programs rarely work, so if more money could be focused on rehabilitation through total legalization, maybe there would be more progress against addiction to hard drugs. Not to mention, total legalization would cut down on many drug homicides. We've already seen that what the government is doing now isn't working, so maybe its time for a change.

I'm an advocate of remote legalization anyway. Hard drugs serve no purpose in my opinion. While some might numb pain, they provide no true relief, while bud has been proven to have medical uses.

[gweggystyle20]

i completely agree with option#2. with the exception of meth labs someone shooting up on heroin or takin some hardcore drug only hurts themselves. the government has no place to say we cannot hurt ourselves. plus there is a ton of money in drugs whether politcians want to admit it or not. the money from taxing drugs plus the money saved from the whole war on drugs would finance bushs wars many times over. it could also revitalize the agriculture economy and add to the exports of this country maybe even givin our country a favorable balance of trade

[Mr. Clandestine]

I guess that is an oversimplification. But would things be a lot worse if all drugs were legal? True, I only know a few people that use hard drugs, but from what I have seen from documentaries and other sources, hardcore addicts don't seem to have trouble getting drugs, and it also seems rehabilitation programs rarely work, so if more money could be focused on rehabilitation through total legalization, maybe there would be more progress against addiction to hard drugs.

You make a great point, and I also agree that more money needs to be spent on rehabilitation programs...as opposed to locking up perfectly normal people, who just so happen to be slave to a drug addiction. In retrospect, we all know what happened during the prohibition of alcohol, and of course, we know what the final outcome was. I think that as long as there are enough people who advocate its use, all sorts of mind-altering drugs could eventually become legal. But I think the best use of our resources - at least for right now - would be to focus on legalizing/decriminalizing the substance that has multiple well-known beneficial properties.

Plus, we have a much better shot at all-out legalization of marijuana than we do with all drugs in general. And sadly, that's still a long shot...

[mfqr]

What would be the purpose of legalizing something that has been proven to make otherwise normal citizens rob their own mothers just to get another fix? Heroin can, and will, do this. So will any other drug that someone feels he/she MUST have in order to make it through another day. Hard drugs commonly lead to domestic issues, as well. Everything from spousal abuse to excessive noise pollution (and much, much worse) are common in people who have been on a weeklong meth binge. Why cause more social and domestic issues by allowing these mindsets to flourish legally?


As far as I know, people who are addicted to hard drugs only steal money for their next hit because they don't have enough money for one. And I believe that part of the problem of that is indeed the prohibition of these hard drugs. Simply put, the black market prices can possibly be hundreds of times higher than if the substance was legal. If we're talkin' international drug smuggling, then it's even a higher profit. For instance, opium in Afghanistan yield profits of tens of thousands percent, if smuggled into America. If legal, however, the price goes down substantially, and a drug addict could actually have a better chance of living in society without stealing for their addiction, due to low prices. Some may disagree with that being better, with the argument that it only allows them to go further with their addiction. While that is true, one must realize that someone who is addicted is going to do it no matter what anybody says. So why is it the government's right to make it illegal, so the prices jump up 700%? And the prices jump up even more everytime the laws get tougher. This means that a hopeless addict, who has *ruined his own life* (he ruined his life with drugs - drugs did not ruin his life... see the difference) must resort to other crimes to get a hit once he or she runs out of money. It's prohibition which is causing more harm than good.

For more information, visit Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) â?º Cops Say (http://www.leap.cc), and read the Publications.

[mfqr]

By the way, Mr. Clandestine, there are people who use heroin, meth, and crack recreationally, but on occasion. So they don't become physically addicted. Yes, there are people who do these hard drugs without becoming addicts. Out of 6 billion people in this world, I don't think you can deny that. So, you saying that "Heroin can, and will, do this" is a bit over the top. Although, I can't deny that it has a high potential of doing what you say. Just saying that it "will" unconditionally do that is an exaggeration.

[Mr. Clandestine]

By the way, Mr. Clandestine, there are people who use heroin, meth, and crack recreationally, but on occasion. So they don't become physically addicted. Yes, there are people who do these hard drugs without becoming addicts. Out of 6 billion people in this world, I don't think you can deny that. So, you saying that "Heroin can, and will, do this" is a bit over the top. Although, I can't deny that it has a high potential of doing what you say. Just saying that it "will" unconditionally do that is an exaggeration.

Perhaps I should have said that there is a very good possibility that a heroin addict might consider doing this. The point is this: these chemicals - which are rarely used exclusively for recreational purposes - have a high rate of addiction amongst users. You're right, not everyone would consider stealing to provide for their next fix...but many of them would. I've met several addicts through the years, and I don't remember any of them being able to hold a respectable job for longer than a few months. Of the ones that I knew, there were only a few options available for them to make any money. Prostitution was one of them. Dealing drugs was another, and finally, stealing from others is what many of them deemed to be a "last resort".

I followed the link in your previous thread, and what I read made plenty of sense. But, it's still my firm opinion that complete and utter legalization wouldn't do much to curb illicit drug use. You're right that they probably wouldn't have to steal for it, due to it's inherent lower cost, but...what would prevent the addicts from falling deeper into their addictions? You can't force a person to get treatment for their addiction, especially if the substance they're addicted to is no longer illegal.

I respect your stance that people should be allowed to harm their bodies without government interference to worry about on top of everything else. But, I'm afraid, this is one of those instances where we'll just have to agree to disagree.