View Full Version : Conspiracy people give me a break
vostro
09-21-2007, 05:18 AM
Unfulfilled people believe in this conspiracy stuff in order to paint the world around them with more excitement than is really there. This is substantiated by my personal experience that a good deal of conspiracy people are big believers in any conspiracy they can get their hands on. If I made up a conspiracy about No. 2 pencils that sounded feasible they'd be saying "Oh really? Ah yes! Go on! It makes perfect sense now.. why wouldn't NUMBER ONE pencils be the most common when they're NUMBER ONE unless someone set this up!"
It's a gigantic fantasy guys. If some of this stuff did happen to be conspiracy, believe me when I say you would never have access to credible primary source information in order to know that.
Anybody who attended the 4th grade can tell you (if you missed that chapter) that PEOPLE CAN'T KEEP SECRETS. Especially the government, the most disorganized, inefficient, blind joke there is - comprised of thousands of disgruntled, bored workers itching for the chance to blow the whistle on someone or piss off their boss with a bonus prize of 15 minutes of fame in exchange. Look at Bay of Pigs. The rare times when the government does try to do something secret it completely fucks up, someone blows the whistle, and the media gobbles it up. If the government was skilled at secrets and conspiracies you wouldn't have pictures on CNN of people with bags over their heads standing on crates with wires in their hands above puddles in Iraq.
If you're really that desperate for excitement maybe you need to find some new friends. The ones that don't sit around talking about fairy tales all day. Get real.
vostro
09-21-2007, 05:29 AM
Politicians who are trying to be slick will eventually, invariably, be sold out by other politicians who are out to fuck them over and usurp their power. Your intervention, rants, email forwards, pixelated blow-up photos with red circles and megaphones aren't a necessary part of that process. The most you will accomplish is making yourself sound foolish and gullible to the majority of people who have more relevant priorities.
THClord
09-21-2007, 08:42 AM
I don't think you've done your research.
And you're right, the government is bad at keeping secrets. And all of these secrets do come out. Except the truth is outnumbered 100 to 1 by the lies the government is telling us. How can this be? Because the media is run by the same people who control the country.
"If you hear a lie enough, you will believe it to be the truth" - idk who I quoted
The problem is when most people think like you. You think that the can not be a conspiracy, because most people can not be wrong.
Do you see the irony of the problem? Most people believe the government is honest, because most people believe the government is honest.
It doesn't lead anywhere! It is not based on logical reasoning.
If you look at the conspiracy movies like Zeitgeist you will find logical reasoning and strong evidence against the goverment.
I believe the more logical of the two arguments.
BTW, I think about 5% of the US knows about the conspiracy, but there are powerless when they are instantly shot down by the other 95% which you belong to.
WeedyBoyWonder
09-21-2007, 01:39 PM
The problem is when most people think like you. You think that the can not be a conspiracy, because most people can not be wrong.
Do you see the irony of the problem? Most people believe the government is honest, because most people believe the government is honest.
BTW, I think about 5% of the US knows about the conspiracy, but there are powerless when they are instantly shot down by the other 95% which you belong to.
Quoted for truth! :thumbsup:
vostro
09-21-2007, 02:14 PM
The media has absolutely nothing to gain by cooperating with the government. In fact, the best-selling, highest-rated, juiciest news comes from stories about government missteps. Where are the Monica Lewinsky , Paula Jones, Abu Ghraib, etc, etc, etc cover up conspiracies? No where, because they don't exist, because the government isn't cohesive or coordinated enough to execute an effective one.
What the conspiracy people seem to be completely missing, again, is that the "government" is not one big monolithic gear. It's made up of a bunch of people who are all out to fuck over the one-up the other people. It's divided against itself in several ways. That being the case, it is not possible for it to move uniformly in one direction. The TRUTH, if that's really what you're interested in, is that you WANT IT to be lies, so that you can feel enlightened. But you're not - it's a fantasy.
Speaking of that, you wouldn't believe what I uncovered about No. 2 pencils - You're all being lied to!!
Mohksha
09-21-2007, 02:35 PM
I think you definitely have a point Vostro... but there are almost certainly conspiracies. I think they are few and far in between though. Most conspiracies are a load of shit when you look at it in an unbiased manner. You have to ignore both the government and the conspiracy "evidence."
growwatcher
09-21-2007, 02:40 PM
[...] Speaking of that, you wouldn't believe what I uncovered about No. 2 pencils - You're all being lied to!!
LMAO! They are control rods that need to be readily accessible to any aliens walking among us that happen to be carrying slightly unstable suitcase-sized nuclear reactors, right?????
vostro, I admire your pluck in walking into the conspiracy forum and stating what you have. For the most part, I agree with you, too. They're all nuts! :D I do, however, think that you are being a bit naive with what kind of secrets the government is capable of keeping.
I think if you change the statement in your original post about not being able to keep a secret from "the government cannot keep a secret" to "any large group of people cannot keep a secret," many things change.
Yes, the government is a large group of people. So yeah, the government as a whole cannot keep a secret. Buuut... (and I can't quite believe I'm about to say anything that would side with the conspiracy theorists out there!) The government is not one big monolithic entity. It is comprised of thousands of subgroups, departments, civilian, military, covert ops, etc., etc.
Do you really think that these small (and some very powerful) groups cannot keep a secret, at least in the short to mid term (5 to 20 years)? The members of some of these various departments don't get into those positions by blabbing. There are people and groups within the government that do things that we never hear about. And the key is that the rest of the government doesn't hear about those things, either.
Please note that I do not subscribe to just about any of the rampant conspiracy theories out there. But I do believe that the various arms of our government do things, especially in other countries, that the general public does not know about.
Grow
higher4hockey
09-21-2007, 02:47 PM
amen.
savagepossum
09-21-2007, 03:46 PM
this thread makes more sense than the whole conspiracy forum put together
You're brainwashed if you don't know or believe that the shapeshifting reptilians from the 4th dimension are trying to enslave humanity. Just kidding.
But for realz d00dz, conspiracies are real. But conspiracy theories are not always even close to being accurate. Some of them can be, though. You just gotta find the right information, and some of that information is few and far between. It's hard to get the information because it's being surpressed.
psykoactive420
09-21-2007, 04:24 PM
'It's hard to get the information because it's being surpressed.'
thats a conspiracy in itself LOL
:)
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Vostro---Thanks for waking me up, your're wise beyond your years...i should have never question our governments legimacy ESP concerning 9-11...I should have never asked Who ordered the Pentagon Official to cancel trips on 9-11, I should have never complain about bushes strong-arming hindering the Investigation into 9-11, i should have automaticlly believe every word(wait i did!), they have never lied, never rob its people, never made me a criminal for smoking cannabis, and even doh one of the Highjackers passport was found in perfect condition on top of the WTC rubble, i should have been a good american and just went shopping...
I should have never question the Iraq War even doh i have questions, i should just be a good american and deal with it....
I should have never question the JFK murder even doh i have questions on the many inconsistancy....
I should have never blame israel for destroying the USS LIberty so they can blame the Arabs....
Our government is all-knowing and all-loving and the Bush Regime is the holy's of Holys....i will now watch FOXNEWS 24/7 for there balance righteous news and services
RhinoGrowUK
09-21-2007, 04:25 PM
vostro did you take your medication yet ?
pisshead
09-21-2007, 05:09 PM
Vostro---Thanks for waking me up, your're wise beyond your years...i should have never question our governments legimacy ESP concerning 9-11...I should have never asked Who ordered the Pentagon Official to cancel trips on 9-11, I should have never complain about bushes strong-arming hindering the Investigation into 9-11, i should have automaticlly believe every word(wait i did!), they have never lied, never rob its people, never made me a criminal for smoking cannabis, and even doh one of the Highjackers passport was found in perfect condition on top of the WTC rubble, i should have been a good american and just went shopping...
I should have never question the Iraq War even doh i have questions, i should just be a good american and deal with it....
I should have never question the JFK murder even doh i have questions on the many inconsistancy....
I should have never blame israel for destroying the USS LIberty so they can blame the Arabs....
Our government is all-knowing and all-loving and the Bush Regime is the holy's of Holys....i will now watch FOXNEWS 24/7 for there balance righteous news and services
and don't ask about building 7 that wasn't hit by a plane and collapsed in a controlled demolition fashion, or about the drills taking place that same morning of hijacked planes hitting buildings, even though no one had ever even thought that kind of thing could happen...
just blame it on the 6 and a half foot muslim guy cave hopping with his dialysis machine...
anangrymailman
09-21-2007, 05:20 PM
There ARE a lot of government and other people calling foul play and there is clearly a lot of shady stuff going on in our country, a lot of it which you or I would probably not agree with. I think its just that some people just choose to beleive what the government or FOX news says and wont ever beleive anything else. Its a lot of the same people that go for weekly brainwashing sessions and hold true a lot of things that are contrary to logic and science. Maybe you just have too much "faith."
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 05:22 PM
Thank you pisshead glad your onboard the no conspiracy thread of the hour, i dont kow why i even doubt building7 in which our government tried so hard to hide it from the people, and condi was being truthful when she said 'no1 ever even thought' knowing that the pentagon had run drills the year b4.....theres no conspiracy...im a traitor and should be arrested for questioning my government............
oh yeah, dont question your government invading other countries:thumbsup:
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 05:30 PM
There ARE a lot of government and other people calling foul play and there is clearly a lot of shady stuff going on in our country, a lot of it which you or I would probably not agree with. I think its just that some people just choose to believe what the government or FOX news says and wont ever believe anything else. Its a lot of the same people that go for weekly brainwashing sessions and hold true a lot of things that are contrary to logic and science. Maybe you just have too much "faith."
Your're out of line dude, our government would never used a media service to promote its agenda, go back to sleep, go shopping, be proud that the U.S government puts its own dictator in IRAN back in the 50s, be proud it gives arms to its enemies...just be proud, watch foxnews & stay away from drugs.....
higher4hockey
09-21-2007, 05:44 PM
eg420ne telling someone they're out of line.....thats classic.
anangrymailman
09-21-2007, 05:47 PM
I mean.. he was being sarcastic.
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:07 PM
I don't think you've done your research.
And you're right, the government is bad at keeping secrets. And all of these secrets do come out. Except the truth is outnumbered 100 to 1 by the lies the government is telling us. How can this be? Because the media is run by the same people who control the country.
"If you hear a lie enough, you will believe it to be the truth" - idk who I quoted
The problem is when most people think like you. You think that the can not be a conspiracy, because most people can not be wrong.
Do you see the irony of the problem? Most people believe the government is honest, because most people believe the government is honest.
It doesn't lead anywhere! It is not based on logical reasoning.
If you look at the conspiracy movies like Zeitgeist you will find logical reasoning and strong evidence against the goverment.
I believe the more logical of the two arguments.
BTW, I think about 5% of the US knows about the conspiracy, but there are powerless when they are instantly shot down by the other 95% which you belong to.
vostro... seriously bro... thanks for keeping this country in the shits... you and people like you...
the brainwashed... i would give my life for your true freedom, i want you to know that
vostro
09-21-2007, 06:21 PM
Nobody said that everything the government says is true, proper, just, or correct. The idea, which some seemed to have missed and failed to refute, is that the definition of successful politicking in Washington is screwing over other people by making them look bad. The (opposite-partied) colleague of a crooked politician has much better access to credible information that any conspiracy theorist ever will and AND a huge motivation to go public with the information.
Of course you should question the government, and of course doing so doesn't make you unpatriotic. I think it speaks to the weakness of your position that the best you can do is knock down arguments that were never made in the first place.
In the event that of the 100 conspiracy theories you believe in 2 happened to be founded in some kind of abstract truth - what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Believe me. Nothing.
As for 9/11, in a situation with 10,000 circumstances surrounding it, I'm not at all surprised that you could cherry-pick 2,000 of them in order to draw a conclusion that you were looking for in the first place. If you want to make a contest out of it, I could go select some 9/11 circumstances that, in a vacuum, would make it indisputable that 9/11 was coordinated and executed by amonia-based aliens from Venus. That certainly does not make it true.
It should be pointed out that any discussion of this is academic because the people that believe in this stuff have made an emotional decision to believe in it, and then went on a treasure hunt to support that decision. Discussion of logic obviously isn't going to make an impact on an emotional decision.
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:28 PM
dude seriously... DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH... don't stop there, do double research, then start writing people, questioning people, get involved...
seriously man, you really don't get what this country is all about and has been all about
this is the age of information and it is getting harder and harder for the world power to hide their actions...
please don't think we are fools... i mean, i can say with 100% assurance, that you are the blind fool... but i am not trying to insult you (i know, i just called you a fool, but you know what i mean), you are just being a good american.
you sound like the general populace about marijuana... you know that right?
most people don't believe in conspiracy till i show them all the money trails...
i have been researching for about 4 months straight, and as far as facts go... i am disturbed...
please don't insult me, and say i'm crazy, or that all this work i do to find the truth is bullshit
IT PISSES ME OFF THAT SHEEP, TRY AND LEAD
i can't stand this shit anymore... we will never change anything
vostro
09-21-2007, 06:29 PM
HighTillIDie, if you gave your life, doesn't that mean you wouldn't have a medium to enjoy my true freedom?
Let me tell you buddy, the grass is greener over here on the brainwashed side of the fence! I do believe everything the government tells me, which is why I'm on a forum exchanging information on how to grow, prepare, and smoke a Schedule I illegal drug.
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:35 PM
HighTillIDie, if you gave your life, doesn't that mean you wouldn't have a medium to enjoy my true freedom?
Let me tell you buddy, the grass is greener over here on the brainwashed side of the fence! I do believe everything the government tells me, which is why I'm on a forum exchanging information on how to grow, prepare, and smoke a Schedule I illegal drug.
you don't understand... i would gladly give me life... GLADLY... to change this world for the true better... and i understand there is no heaven, or second life. maybe someone could put me in a book or something so i could rationalize it easier in my human mind.
and i love how you think that growing weed, against the law, makes you enlightened...
THE CIA IS THE WORLDS LARGEST DRUG DEALER... think about that
king of the world
09-21-2007, 06:35 PM
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont talk to loud, or they might hear us.
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:36 PM
This quote for you vostro--You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on-your gawd George W Bushit
OLDE ENGLISH '800
09-21-2007, 06:38 PM
you really dont have freedom you just think you do we are the nazis of today and i would gladly stand with hightillidie
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:39 PM
! I do believe everything the government tells me, .
very telling:thumbsup:
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:40 PM
i have realized though... i have to learn how to manipulate the emotions of others better, before i can open them to something they would rather not believe...
which is exactly how we are controlled (omg i said we are controlled, i must be crazy)
i can only show the facts, just like you said vostro, to those that want to listen, to those that are open...
who do you think this benefits more... and if you had power... don't you think you would try to use this to your advantage...
EVERYONE knows power corrupts.
to be honest, i don't know how to get people to even follow my thoughts... i don't know how to break the nieve... but i will try to learn, till i can get people to hear...
vostro
09-21-2007, 06:44 PM
I think we should delete this thread. I was reading the newspaper just now, and when I assigned a number to each letter in the alphabet, 1 - 26, then took the third letter from each 3+ letter word in the article I was reading, added 1 to it's numerical value, and translated back into alpha form, you wouldn't believe what it spelled:
Graphite Pen & Pencil Company: Custom Imprinted Pencils and Pens plus Bulk Pencils, Mechanical Pencils, Erasers, Stationery and more (http://www.gpencil.com/)
They're going to silence us! THEY'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE!
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:47 PM
Is the Ocean blue or is the sky blue...does the sun rise in the north....is the moon really the sun...tune in next time as vostro discusses foxnews rise to power and how he so love his country that he blindly follows every word, if the government told vostro to jump off the golden gate bridge do you think he'll do it, i think he would.....I do believe everything the government tells me-vostro
higher4hockey
09-21-2007, 06:49 PM
eg you baffle me, you hate this country soooo much but yet you still live in it. and take advantage of the freedoms you so blatantly question.
vostro
09-21-2007, 06:51 PM
A tell-tale sign of a person with an irrational, emotional decision masquerading as an intellectual conclusion is when the person is unable to admit a chance that they are wrong into their model. Hardline conclusions come from ignorance about the other side of the spectrum. Whenever someone is 100% sure about something run the other way.
eg, way to quote my sarcasm out of context in order to invert the meaning of what I was saying. If you had any substance to add to the thread, you'd be better served to actually make a point. It just makes you look bad. This thread is getting kind of childish. I'm out.
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:52 PM
eg you baffle me, you hate this country soooo much but yet you still live in it. and take advantage of the freedoms you so blatantly question.
i love my country i think your're the one that hates it....:thumbsup:
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:53 PM
A tell-tale sign of a person with an irrational, emotional decision masquerading as an intellectual conclusion is when the person is unable to admit a chance that they are wrong into their model. Hardline conclusions come from ignorance about the other side of the spectrum. Whenever someone is 100% sure about something run the other way.
look whos ignorant---I do believe everything the government tells me..vostro
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:54 PM
golly vostro... am i really that crazy... i don't brag, or go near it... but all of this worlds ways of judging intelligence, i have toppled with ease. in psych evaluations, i IMPRESS the tester.
everyday i run into arguements about things of any nature, where i have to reteach someone...
i really don't think i am wrong (of course, who does) and i am really really good at selfintrospection (sp)
i am not close minded... please take a few of the real hard fact "theories" that you don't believe in, and let's have a calm, intelligent conversation... i want to know why i am wasting my time and energy... i need to know what is real in this world...
help me
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:55 PM
its no use hightillidie.....I do believe everything the government tells me-vostro
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 06:56 PM
i refuse to believe that someone is a lost soul... i guess i watched too much star wars episode 6 when i was growing up
vostro
09-21-2007, 06:57 PM
What is real is happiness, humbleness, helping people, and raising a productive healthy family. Friendships and love are real. Forget the rest of the stuff it means nothing on your deathbed.
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 06:57 PM
well good luck then....:thumbsup:
vostro
09-21-2007, 07:00 PM
EG is missing his corpus callosum and thus interprets all statements for their face value. If I am wrong, I would advise you to take a hard look at this page EG Sarcasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm)
higher4hockey
09-21-2007, 07:00 PM
like i said eg , you baffle me at times
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 07:07 PM
A tell-tale sign of a person with an irrational, emotional decision masquerading as an intellectual conclusion is when the person is unable to admit a chance that they are wrong into their model. Hardline conclusions come from ignorance about the other side of the spectrum. Whenever someone is 100% sure about something run the other way.
QUOTE]
[QUOTE]What is real is happiness, humbleness, helping people, and raising a productive healthy family. Friendships and love are real. Forget the rest of the stuff it means nothing on your deathbed.
i couldn't agree more... i already stated before i read that, that i could be wrong, of course i could i am human... and i really do want to help people...
i am not being immature, or childish (more than i actually am)
you created this based on emotion, wouldn't you like to end it with fact?
eg420ne
09-21-2007, 07:07 PM
EG is missing his corpus callosum and thus interprets all statements for their face value. If I am wrong, I would advise you to take a hard look at this page EG Sarcasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm)
I do believe everything the government tells me-vostro....i dont believe nothing i say and no1 should, go find the facts for your self...am i being for real or is it sarcasm.......IDK :rolleyes::i feel stupid::wave1::s4::icon506::rastabanna::admin1:
HighTillIDie
09-21-2007, 07:09 PM
eg... don't stoop man... let the truth be your weapon...
everything is psychology man... everything
RhinoGrowUK
09-21-2007, 07:13 PM
[quote=vostro]I think we should delete this thread. I was reading the newspaper just now, and when I assigned a number to each letter in the alphabet, 1 - 26, then took the third letter from each 3+ letter word in the article I was reading, added 1 to it's numerical value, and translated back into alpha form, you wouldn't believe what it spelled:
Vostro smokes crack ?!
THClord
09-21-2007, 07:29 PM
Vostro, my replies to your newer posts.
Think of the media and the government this way. There are a some very rich, powerful, corrupt, and immoral people out there. These guys met one day and had a chat about how they can control the country. They decided that they must brainwash the people first. So they bought the media. Now these few people fuck us over, and then use the media, which they control to cover it up.
Look up some article on the media coverage immediately following 9/11. In the first 1-2 days there were all sorts of conspiracy theories on the major news channels. Then they disappeared all of a sudden.
What happened was that the media owners told the bosses at the media to stop this conspiracy shit cuz it's unpatriotic. This command went down the corporate chain of command, and in the end noone talked about it.
And FYI, there aren't thousands of elaborate conspiracy theories. It's a common misconception among those who never do any research. Once you start looking at conspiracy theories, you will find that all of them fit together and make sense. And there is only one main conspiracy theory for every time we got fucked over, like JFK and 9/11. There is one theory and not dozens. Conspiracy theorists aren't nutjobs that make shit up, but are guys who found out the truth, and are trying to tell people.
Why do all of them fit together and make sense? Cuz it's the truth!
THE CIA IS THE WORLDS LARGEST DRUG DEALER... think about that
They do give weapons in exchange for cocaine and heroin, and smuggle it into this country, but I wouldn't say they are the biggest drug dealer in the world. And it's not necessarily the whole CIA, just parts of it. The largest drug dealer in the world, by far, is the pharmaceutical industry (and closely following are the tobacco and alcohol industries). It's legal drug dealing, and many of the drugs they sell have possible side effects that are worse than many illegal drugs. Ever see an ad on TV for a prescription drug that has multiple deadly possible side-effects, like heart failure and stroke? Crazy that they can sell this shit, and hardly anybody seems to be against it. Some may argue that "well, they're legal, and they actually help you." What everyone must understand is that just about every drug, even mostly-recreational illegal drugs, has a medical benefit.
HighTillIDie
09-22-2007, 01:42 AM
They do give weapons in exchange for cocaine and heroin, and smuggle it into this country, but I wouldn't say they are the biggest drug dealer in the world. And it's not necessarily the whole CIA, just parts of it. The largest drug dealer in the world, by far, is the pharmaceutical industry (and closely following are the tobacco and alcohol industries). It's legal drug dealing, and many of the drugs they sell have possible side effects that are worse than many illegal drugs. Ever see an ad on TV for a prescription drug that has multiple deadly possible side-effects, like heart failure and stroke? Crazy that they can sell this shit, and hardly anybody seems to be against it. Some may argue that "well, they're legal, and they actually help you." What everyone must understand is that just about every drug, even mostly-recreational illegal drugs, has a medical benefit.
wow, good point... i definately went overboard, pharm. corporartions, definately push more drugs than anyone else on the planet, but the cia, was at least responsible for starting the flow of drugs into this country, and routinely upkeep the flow. that's messed up
OLDE ENGLISH '800
09-22-2007, 01:46 AM
like i could take some viagra and go blind,or can have a headache and take a shitload of aspren it will be the last fuckin headache ill ever have
delusionsofNORMALity
09-22-2007, 02:10 AM
i don't really see anything wrong with conspiracy theorists. for the most part it's just fanciful imaginings and paranoid delusions, but from time to time they uncover some hidden truth or bit of forgotten information and they always keep us questioning the veracity of those we have placed in power. the only problems are those of their followers who allow their childish naivete, blind hatred and impotent rage to override their common sense. these are the folks who see only conspiracies and blind themselves to any possibility that something might actually be as it seems. though they are more irritating than dangerous, there is always the possibility of taking such a stance too far. that certainty that they are one of the few who see the true nature of their surroundings is born of the same mentality that assured such men as stalin and hitler of their superiority. after all, we all want to be special and some prefer to maintain an illusion of superiority rather than admit that they are just like the rest of us, struggling to understand those things over which we have no control. some men find that illusion in religion, some find it in the battle for wealth or power, some find it by despising all those who they see as having power over them and ridiculing those that don't share their beliefs.
:hippy:
i don't really see anything wrong with conspiracy theorists. for the most part it's just fanciful imaginings and paranoid delusions, but from time to time they uncover some hidden truth or bit of forgotten information and they always keep us questioning the veracity of those we have placed in power. the only problems are those of their followers who allow their childish naivete, blind hatred and impotent rage to override their common sense. these are the folks who see only conspiracies and blind themselves to any possibility that something might actually be as it seems. though they are more irritating than dangerous, there is always the possibility of taking such a stance too far. that certainty that they are one of the few who see the true nature of their surroundings is born of the same mentality that assured such men as stalin and hitler of their superiority. after all, we all want to be special and some prefer to maintain an illusion of superiority rather than admit that they are just like the rest of us, struggling to understand those things over which we have no control. some men find that illusion in religion, some find it in the battle for wealth or power, some find it by despising all those who they see as having power over them and ridiculing those that don't share their beliefs.
:hippy:
You make a good point.
wickerbill
09-23-2007, 03:58 PM
Vostro, I think you are being naive. I wonder why your comments are so angry and you choose to resort to name calling? Authority should always be questioned, especially in a democracy! The government works for us, we pay them! To not know that there are conspiracys in our government is to deny history. Especially the last 6+ years.This is the first time in history that the US has condoned & passed laws that protects torture, illegal war, spying unfettered on US citizens, lawless mercenarys, etc. The mentality that you display is,I suspect, the same as that of the German people as Hitler rose to power.These people on the whole were not bad, they just let themselves be misled. The repercussions of our actions during the last 6+ years will haunt us for decades.
vostro
09-23-2007, 04:08 PM
The mentality of the German people that let Hitler rise to power is we're poor, in despair, and getting the short end of the stick as a result of WWI. "We need breathing room" And just a little bit at a time.
How that compares to not buying other people's escapist make-believe I have no idea - because it doesn't.
The vigor of most conspiracy defense is a function of how entertaining the idea is. Just because you lie to yourself don't expect me to buy into it.
wickerbill
09-23-2007, 04:27 PM
Your last post says volumes.
vostro
09-23-2007, 05:56 PM
Indeed it does. In fact, if you're interested in Nazi analogies - I'd say the conspiracy theorists are more comparable to the brainwashed German people. Both bodies of people on-the-whole lead lives that are lacking emotionally or otherwise; and are willing to buy into something that is either twisted logic or irrational in order to fill that void or have the hope of filling it. Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.
Hardcore Newbie
09-23-2007, 06:48 PM
Indeed it does. In fact, if you're interested in Nazi analogies - I'd say the conspiracy theorists are more comparable to the brainwashed German people. Both bodies of people on-the-whole lead lives that are lacking emotionally or otherwise; and are willing to buy into something that is either twisted logic or irrational in order to fill that void or have the hope of filling it. Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything, I just dropped in, but what you did is the same tactic that the faithful use when dismissing the non-believers. They claim that since God isn't in my life, that my life lacks meaning and that I must be very sad all the time. Stop trying to lump everyone who questions the government as a crack pot.
vostro
09-24-2007, 03:10 AM
When we discuss the feeding habits of field mice we speak about the group as a whole. If 90% of field mice display the same feeding habits and you're having an abstract-level conversation about it, you're not obligated to include the 10% exception. The same rule applies for almost all things. For some reason when we start talking about people, out of sheer self-importance, others get this impression that it's intellectually dishonest to talk in generalities. No one goes to bat for the field mice because it would be ridiculous. Somehow peoples' oversensitive egos change the rules. Well I don't go by those rules.
Similarly, if 90% of the time you walked by someone with a cane and they hit you with it, eventually you would be guarded when you walked by people with canes. That's how our brains work, and for good reason. In my life I have very, very rarely met a conspiracy theorist who wasn't a complete crack pot. That's my experience, at least 90%, just like the field mice. I have every right to lump conspiracy theorists together as crack pots. And stop with the misconstrued straw-men arguments already - it's not everyone that questions the government. That was never, and will never be, my argument. If you're going to criticize me, have the target be something I actually said. Everyone questions the government at some point, so that would mean my position is that everyone is a crackpot. I question the government. As I said - if I wasn't ready and willing to break the law I wouldn't be on this forum in the first place. If you believe in 3+ conspiracies, judging from my personal, and not limited exposure to people who believe in 3+ conspiracies, it is extremely probable that you believe in those things as an expression of escapism. You have no right to tell me I can't make judgments based on personal experience, what my personal experience was, or that it is inappropriate to share that experience with others.
My biggest question is why I feel compelled enough by this topic to waste my time writing on this thread. Maybe its a way for me to release pent up frustration, accumulated over many years, listening to people force their bullshit fantasies down my throat. Standing at the top of the World Trade Center train station with bullhorns. My next move, if I don't get the gratification I'm looking for out of this thread, is going to be equipping myself with my own bullhorn, and when I see another one of those guys I'm going to stick it in his ear and tell him to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
jakez
09-24-2007, 07:59 PM
What exactly is a "crack pot"? Believing in 3+ conspiracies? lol, that is completely pulled from your personal opinion, where is the science in that? You're comparing scientific studies of lab rats to the general population of humans that know nothing except what they read in the newspaper or see on TV. Comparing fact and fiction now are we..
vostro
09-24-2007, 09:23 PM
Scientific discourse and personal conclusions are both based off of observational experience. That is the link in a more condensed format if my explanation was too abstract.
To answer your question in 1000 words, I have attached an image of a crackpot.
When we discuss the feeding habits of field mice we speak about the group as a whole. If 90% of field mice display the same feeding habits and you're having an abstract-level conversation about it, you're not obligated to include the 10% exception. The same rule applies for almost all things. For some reason when we start talking about people, out of sheer self-importance, others get this impression that it's intellectually dishonest to talk in generalities. No one goes to bat for the field mice because it would be ridiculous. Somehow peoples' oversensitive egos change the rules. Well I don't go by those rules.
Similarly, if 90% of the time you walked by someone with a cane and they hit you with it, eventually you would be guarded when you walked by people with canes. That's how our brains work, and for good reason. In my life I have very, very rarely met a conspiracy theorist who wasn't a complete crack pot. That's my experience, at least 90%, just like the field mice. I have every right to lump conspiracy theorists together as crack pots. And stop with the misconstrued straw-men arguments already - it's not everyone that questions the government. That was never, and will never be, my argument. If you're going to criticize me, have the target be something I actually said. Everyone questions the government at some point, so that would mean my position is that everyone is a crackpot. I question the government. As I said - if I wasn't ready and willing to break the law I wouldn't be on this forum in the first place. If you believe in 3+ conspiracies, judging from my personal, and not limited exposure to people who believe in 3+ conspiracies, it is extremely probable that you believe in those things as an expression of escapism. You have no right to tell me I can't make judgments based on personal experience, what my personal experience was, or that it is inappropriate to share that experience with others.
My biggest question is why I feel compelled enough by this topic to waste my time writing on this thread. Maybe its a way for me to release pent up frustration, accumulated over many years, listening to people force their bullshit fantasies down my throat. Standing at the top of the World Trade Center train station with bullhorns. My next move, if I don't get the gratification I'm looking for out of this thread, is going to be equipping myself with my own bullhorn, and when I see another one of those guys I'm going to stick it in his ear and tell him to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Yes, 90% of conspiracy theories are crack-pots, just like 90% of black people are criminals? :wtf:
Just to pose a question... about how many conspiracy theorists have you met?
And just to tell you about the getting hit with the cane thing you said. When you end up getting nervous when walking by someone with a cane, and get defensive, it's called conditioning. After awhile, you become conditioned to it. But that does not necessarily mean that every person with a cane is going to hit you. Same goes with conspiracy theorists being crackpots. Maybe you've met a lot of conspiracy theorists who are "crackpots" (at least in your mind). But that does not mean that at least 90% of conspiracy theorists are crackpots. Obviously you pulled that percentage out of your ass anyway. But the point is there... "most conspiracy theorists are crackpots." And this would also depend on how many conspiracy theorists you have met. It is entirely possible that by chance you stumbled upon these "crackpot" conspiracy theorists, and have never, or rarely, been exposed to "non-crackpot" conspiracy theorists. So before you come up with even a fake percentage, you might want to try and meet more. Maybe you could go out and find a few thousand. Then you would have at least a little bit more accuracy in your statement. Or, of course, you could go out and meet more than a few thousand. The point is, you cannot make generalizations based on your very little experience with conspiracy theorists. I'm pretty sure you haven't had much. In fact, I am 100% sure that you have not met that many. Definitely not over 100, and most likely under 70.
pisshead
09-24-2007, 11:08 PM
and how many of the freedom hating terrorists commanded by the six and a half foot guy in the cave on the dialysis machine are crackpots?
vostro
09-24-2007, 11:45 PM
These are all non-scientific classifications of people. It doesn't mean we don't use them, and because personal conditioning has the potential to be misrepresentative of the results that you would get from a scientific study it doesn't mean we don't use that conditioning to form opinions and conclusions. You do. If you say you don't you're lying to yourself. That's how our brains work whether you like it or not.
If you want some specific statistics I'll give you one - I've never known a single respectable, intelligent, responsible person who started pouring conspiracy fantasies down my throat. None one. If I did maybe I'd be a little more apt to listen. Your average whack job at burning man isn't the type of person I respect or look up to and those, in my experience, are the conspiracy theorists. I hear weird-sounding/far-out theories on Coast-to-Coast AM, and though the conclusions of most of the programs' guests are wild I listen to and consider them because for the most part the guests are articulate and give the impression of being knowledgeable. People who sound intelligent are more likely to be intelligent, at least that's the way it seems. It seems that way to you too, and if you lie to yourself about that fact that's not my problem.
As for the freedom hating terrorists, I think you should watch a movie called Syriana (and understand it). Not that it's an epiphany-in-a-can unto itself, but it demonstrates a very valid point. Which is that all humans, from all cultures, in all times are essentially identical. Social mores sway back and forth and surface-level cultural things change, but that bottom 95% of almost every human is the same. We all want the same things. To feel like we have a purpose, to be loved, to be respected. We all get jealous and angry, we all make mistakes, do stupid things, become confused, yatta yatta yatta. We are built in such a way that we can become mislead sometimes, and do terrible things. You are still responsible for your actions, but you are not fundamentally flawed, at least not more so than we all are. Because there is a sub-culture of people in the Middle East who have been raised in a world which paints the West as an enemy, Bin Laden included, doesn't mean they're all evil. It's extremely convenient to pigeonhole people into groups of good and evil but that rigid classification just doesn't account for the complexities of reality, and specifically not the complexities of human psychology. But I digress.
Conspiracy people, I appreciate that there are people out there looking for cover-ups so they can jump on them like white on rice. That that contingent is out there probably keeps the crooked fogies on their toes to some degree if nothing else. However, and this is a big however - KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. Keep it on your contained forum, or other conspiracy "friendlies" who you know have already bought what you're selling before you even start. If you're the bullhorn type, I will be the first one to dismantle your fantasies for what they really are because you're intruding on my peace-of-mind for ESCAPIST purposes that masquerade as an obligation to the public.
When escapism isn't involved, when you walk by a homeless person who asks for money, or you'd rather buy a new XBox game than donate to charity - where is your vigorous concern for your public then? When escapism is not a fringe benefit? No where to be found, that's where. Because it's all complete bullshit in the first place.
Don't forget - the people in this picture vote Democrat. And that's a promise.
TallCoolOne
09-24-2007, 11:56 PM
Yeah, stop it conspiracy people! When has the government ever lied to us?
psychocat
09-25-2007, 12:51 AM
People who don't believe that goverments are made up of elitist people held in place by corrupt and powerful families is deluding themselves.
con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design:
Tell me goverments and big business aren't guilty of this and I will answer the only way I can :: Are you fuckin' blind or just plain crazy?
HighTillIDie
09-25-2007, 01:06 AM
These are all non-scientific classifications of people. It doesn't mean we don't use them, and because personal conditioning has the potential to be misrepresentative of the results that you would get from a scientific study it doesn't mean we don't use that conditioning to form opinions and conclusions. You do. If you say you don't you're lying to yourself. That's how our brains work whether you like it or not.
If you want some specific statistics I'll give you one - I've never known a single respectable, intelligent, responsible person who started pouring conspiracy fantasies down my throat. None one. If I did maybe I'd be a little more apt to listen. Your average whack job at burning man isn't the type of person I respect or look up to and those, in my experience, are the conspiracy theorists. I hear weird-sounding/far-out theories on Coast-to-Coast AM, and though the conclusions of most of the programs' guests are wild I listen to and consider them because for the most part the guests are articulate and give the impression of being knowledgeable. People who sound intelligent are more likely to be intelligent, at least that's the way it seems. It seems that way to you too, and if you lie to yourself about that fact that's not my problem.
As for the freedom hating terrorists, I think you should watch a movie called Syriana (and understand it). Not that it's an epiphany-in-a-can unto itself, but it demonstrates a very valid point. Which is that all humans, from all cultures, in all times are essentially identical. Social mores sway back and forth and surface-level cultural things change, but that bottom 95% of almost every human is the same. We all want the same things. To feel like we have a purpose, to be loved, to be respected. We all get jealous and angry, we all make mistakes, do stupid things, become confused, yatta yatta yatta. We are built in such a way that we can become mislead sometimes, and do terrible things. You are still responsible for your actions, but you are not fundamentally flawed, at least not more so than we all are. Because there is a sub-culture of people in the Middle East who have been raised in a world which paints the West as an enemy, Bin Laden included, doesn't mean they're all evil. It's extremely convenient to pigeonhole people into groups of good and evil but that rigid classification just doesn't account for the complexities of reality, and specifically not the complexities of human psychology. But I digress.
Conspiracy people, I appreciate that there are people out there looking for cover-ups so they can jump on them like white on rice. That that contingent is out there probably keeps the crooked fogies on their toes to some degree if nothing else. However, and this is a big however - KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. Keep it on your contained forum, or other conspiracy "friendlies" who you know have already bought what you're selling before you even start. If you're the bullhorn type, I will be the first one to dismantle your fantasies for what they really are because you're intruding on my peace-of-mind for ESCAPIST purposes that masquerade as an obligation to the public.
When escapism isn't involved, when you walk by a homeless person who asks for money, or you'd rather buy a new XBox game than donate to charity - where is your vigorous concern for your public then? When escapism is not a fringe benefit? No where to be found, that's where. Because it's all complete bullshit in the first place.
Don't forget - the people in this picture vote Democrat. And that's a promise.
First, who are you to tell anyone where to say anything?
Second, if you are going to attack somone for their beliefs, without due process, then you clearly have issues, that should be dealt with.
Now, i personally try not to follow any stoyline i can't prove, so while my mind may fantasy, grand scheme and plots, I cannot do anything but process ALL the information given to me. I can argue many times for both sides.
I just think it's sad, how society moves away from the greater good, and advancement
vostro
09-25-2007, 01:06 AM
TallCoolOne by the breadth of your post I'd venture to guess that you didn't bother reading the thread at all, let alone invested any time into thinking about it. Of course that's your right, but I think it's good to be clear.
Who am I to tell anyone where to saying something? I'm a person that has to be there listening to it. That's who. The necessary due process was my personal experience, since this is personal opinion. I don't need a jury of peers in order to form personal conclusions if that's what you're getting at. Seems like common sense to me and nothing to do with issues.
psychocat
09-25-2007, 01:34 AM
Vostro . IMO Those who don't believe in conspiracies are like ostriches : they're burying thier heads in the sand.
Not believing in conspiracies is the same as not believing that people can be corrupt.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
Roots by the River: Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely (http://rootsbytheriver.blogspot.com/2006/01/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html)
I think Vostro is a disinformation agent.
vostro
09-25-2007, 02:18 AM
Of course people can be corrupt. Maybe if we're playing a definition game on that level it's helpful to be clear on what is meant by conspiracy. Cooperating with someone in planning to break the law is technically conspiracy. By that definition, there are thousands of conspiracies forming and executing every hour across the world. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about GWB and Bin Laden being golf buddies because his relatives fled US public persecution after 9/11, which anyone with a preservation instinct would have done. I'm talking about people who think that Jews/Illuminati/Underground Reptilian Aliens control the Earth.
Are we all getting fucked by the international banking system? Yeah. Anybody who has bothered to look into non-secret, if sometimes technical, facts knows that. It's nothing to get all saucer-eyed about.
I got a $10 bill for whoever is reading this that before you plant yourself on your death bed you will do something that someone, somewhere would classify as corrupt. Once again, if your position really had strength your best defense wouldn't be against an argument that I never made.
As for you mfqr, you got me. The jig is up. I was really pullin the wool until you showed up.
Of course people can be corrupt. Maybe if we're playing a definition game on that level it's helpful to be clear on what is meant by conspiracy. Cooperating with someone in planning to break the law is technically conspiracy. By that definition, there are thousands of conspiracies forming and executing every hour across the world. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about GWB and Bin Laden being golf buddies because his relatives fled US public persecution after 9/11, which anyone with a preservation instinct would have done. I'm talking about people who think that Jews/Illuminati/Underground Reptilian Aliens control the Earth.
Are we all getting fucked by the international banking system? Yeah. Anybody who has bothered to look into non-secret, if sometimes technical, facts knows that. It's nothing to get all saucer-eyed about.
I got a $10 bill for whoever is reading this that before you plant yourself on your death bed you will do something that someone, somewhere would classify as corrupt. Once again, if your position really had strength your best defense wouldn't be against an argument that I never made.
As for you mfqr, you got me. The jig is up. I was really pullin the wool until you showed up.
Wow, I've never seen a disinfo agent admit it so quickly, or even admit it at all. Well, that's good then.
By the way, shapeshifting reptillians from the fourth dimension do exist, whether you'd like to believe it or not. They are working with the Bush administration and the global elite right now, as we speak, to get the next "terrorist" attack underway, so that the U.S. may then have a "reason" to go into a police state.
Ok, I'm joking.
As for the Illuminati, the Illuminati did/does exist. However, it's shrouded in mystery. That doesn't mean that everybody that knows of the Illuminati thinks they are involved in some big conspiracy. That is such a misrepresentation of them... although I wouldn't doubt it if they were. But really, nobody knows if they are involved in conspiracies. But the fact is, they did exist, and may still exist. Go look it up, there's some history on them -- especially the Bavarian Illuminati.
jakez
09-25-2007, 08:26 AM
Scientific discourse and personal conclusions are both based off of observational experience. That is the link in a more condensed format if my explanation was too abstract.
To answer your question in 1000 words, I have attached an image of a crackpot.
And I, unlike you, will reply with something that completely proves you wrong instead of a goofy image of Rosie that accomplishes nothing and proves nothing. I feel bad for people that always argue their side with stupid pictures... wtf?
Yet again..
"Some even believe we (Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure---one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
- David Rockefeller, ??Memoirs?, 2002
vostro
09-25-2007, 03:05 PM
I feel bad for those people too, which is why I don't "always" argue my side with stupid pictures. Good to know we're on the same team. Anybody have anything to contribute to this thread besides undeveloped ideas, rehashed, irrelevant quotes, or rhetoric? We should close it at this rate.
Ballast
09-25-2007, 04:12 PM
To be paranoid means to believe in delusions of danger and persecution. If the danger is real, and the evidence credible, then it cannot be delusional. To ignore the evidence, and hope that it CANNOT be true, is more an evidence of mental illness.
That a ruling power elite does indeed control the U.S. government behind the scenes has been attested to by many Americans in a position to know. Felix Frankfurter, Justice of the Supreme Court (1939-1962), said: "The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes." In a letter to an associate dated November 21, 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt wrote, "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."
To be paranoid means to believe in delusions of danger and persecution. If the danger is real, and the evidence credible, then it cannot be delusional. To ignore the evidence, and hope that it CANNOT be true, is more an evidence of mental illness.
That a ruling power elite does indeed control the U.S. government behind the scenes has been attested to by many Americans in a position to know. Felix Frankfurter, Justice of the Supreme Court (1939-1962), said: "The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes." In a letter to an associate dated November 21, 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt wrote, "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."
You could at least give credit to who actually wrote your whole post there.
psychocat
09-25-2007, 10:43 PM
Vostro you seem to be losing interest in your own thread , could that be because you took a stance you're finding difficult to defend ?
You claim that all conspiracy "nuts" are wrong and then backtrack to say "well I only meant the ones who believe in the Bin Laden /Bush connection" BTW that connection is real and the companies owned by them are now reaping big bucks from the war started by Bush/ Bin Laden , so maybe you should think before spouting so much rhetoric wether there IS any link between the so called "War on Terror" and the specific interests of a few powerful people.
If it smells as bad as it does you can bet theres something rotten.
vostro
09-25-2007, 11:10 PM
I'm losing interest because there's no one responding to my arguments. There have been a handful of reasonable replies. Most though, like the one you just posted, are making undeveloped assertions and attacking gross mischaracterizations of my argument.
"well I only meant the ones who believe in the Bin Laden /Bush connection" shouldn't be in quotes because it's not something I ever said. It would seem you're either too high or too deeply steeped in denial to admit that it is reasonable to break down conspiracies into categories - whose credibility, depending on the class, is more or less subject to question.
"BTW" that connection is not real, and a prime example of the "I'm enlightened and know the real truth that everyone else doesn't know so doesn't that feel good for my ego" fantasy that you are living in.
You tell me "maybe I should think before..." without explaining what makes me appear to not have thought except that I completely disagree with you. You sound ridiculous. Then closing with what looked roughly like an attempt at wisdom.
There's no point in having a thread whose purpose is to exchange "Nuh uh" "Uh huh" "Nuh uh" "Uh huh" quips. Very little in substance, boring, and childish. If someone out there has something to add besides unsubstantiated assertions or sophisticated versions of "You're stupid because you disagree with me" I hope you will add it to the thread. If you're too baked to follow the conversation maybe it would be good if you found another thread. Although this is Cannabis.com, so... in light of that psychocat your comments have been well-constructed, thoughtful, cogent, and enlightening. By you saying "BTW the connection is real" you have really made me reconsider the world I am living in. With a statement like that, how could I not? BTW, the Care Bears are real too. GWB is a Care Bear, but you don't know it because he's a shape shifter. Bin Laden? Also a shapeshifting Care Bear. You've presented as much evidence to support both conclusions.
If Fahrenheit 911 impacted your understanding of politics, please let me know so I don't waste any keystrokes responding to you.
psychocat
09-25-2007, 11:21 PM
Typical !
You have to be completely blind not to see that the connection between the Bin Ladens and Bush family is as real as anything can be.
You talk but you don't seem to think before you do so.
You continue living with your head in the sand if you want but it doesn't change that the connection is there and has been for a long time.
Your carebears bullshit is simply an attempt to be facetious instead of simply sticking to my point of WAR is good for both the Bin Ladens and Bush because of thier vested interests in companies that supply the weapons among other things.
BTW I have no need to feel superior to anyone or better informed and I have made no such claim.
I really don't care what happens to the human race since I am actualy a bit of a sociopath who would much prefer anarchy to the bullshit system that now exists.
deadfan420
09-26-2007, 01:15 AM
I'm skeptical of most conspiracy theories. The only one I have any real belief in is a conspiracy between Big Oil and the Auto industry.
Anyway, here are two good (and funny) reasons why a lot of conspiracies don't make sense (especially all the 9/11 ones out there):
Official Website for the Titanic truth movement. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07)
and don't forget this one:
There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)
Enough said.
vostro
09-26-2007, 01:23 AM
Would you care to share the name of a book, any book, that you have ever read on the political philosophy of anarchy? In its real academic form, I think anarchy is actually a very benign political philosophy. In its real form, everything would be 100% privatized. Even defense. The word anarchy in the realm of political philosophy does not mean people running around setting everything on fire. The problem with implementation, like other political philosophies, is a practical one. It would depend upon universal adoption, which is unrealistic at best.
In the last election, between Bush, Cheney, Edwards, and Kerry, Bush was worth the least amount of money. He's worth about $13M. That's a lot of money, sure. As rich people go that's nothing. Where I used to live in Florida you couldn't buy a house in several neighborhoods for less than $15M. For all the charges of profiteering, where is all the money? Or I bet you have a few fantasies that answer that question too.
vostro
09-26-2007, 01:26 AM
Big Oil and Auto are probably in bed. More likely than not. Why wouldn't they be.
Also, the bun makers and the hot dog people are in a conspiracy. See Father of the Bride for details.
Those cartoons are hilarious lol
I'm skeptical of most conspiracy theories. The only one I have any real belief in is a conspiracy between Big Oil and the Auto industry.
Anyway, here are two good (and funny) reasons why a lot of conspiracies don't make sense (especially all the 9/11 ones out there):
Official Website for the Titanic truth movement. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07)
and don't forget this one:
There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)
Enough said.
Yep, it makes a lot of sense to post links to Maddox to try and prove a conspiracy wrong. You're right, enough said.
In the last election, between Bush, Cheney, Edwards, and Kerry, Bush was worth the least amount of money. He's worth about $13M. That's a lot of money, sure. As rich people go that's nothing. Where I used to live in Florida you couldn't buy a house in several neighborhoods for less than $15M. For all the charges of profiteering, where is all the money? Or I bet you have a few fantasies that answer that question too.
How and why is Bush worth about $13,000,000? As for the war profiteering thing: would it be impossible to launder the money, especially since war profiteering is "illegal"? Clearly it would be a big mistake for somebody to say, "Hey! I just made loads of money off of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq!" Don't forget that Bush also worked in the oil industry, too. But I guess there's not a lot of that in the Middle East, which means the oil industry could not profit off of all the oil that isn't there. You're right, Vostro, so right. It's impossible to profit off of a war, and impossible to launder money. Yep, you're right. Sorry to anybody who was tricked into thinking that big corporations could profit off of a war.
(in addition to my above post) And that our current president could possibly have a connection to the big oil industry. Geez, I must have been a total kook for thinking that. Maybe I should admit myself to an insane asylum. Clearly I am a conspiracy theory nut who has no sense of the real world.
Let's look at the following points that are true, but nobody knows:
- Bush never had anything to do with oil.
- The Middle East has no oil.
- Thus, the war in Iraq could never serve to secure the oil fields that are clearly not there.
- And since nobody ever profits off of wars, the weapons industry and aircraft industry could not.
Therefore I have made the connection that my ignorant little brain could never make: nobody can launder money, and nobody can ever profit off of wars. And if it was possible, everyone would know, and there would be irrefutable evidence of the exact amount of money that Bush made. So clearly the question that Vostro posed about "Where is the money then?" is valid, because we'd all know, clearly, without a doubt.
Conspiracies within the government are impossible. There's no way. God wouldn't let it happen, and Satan can't do it because God wouldn't allow Satan to. Just some food for thought there, for all you religious people.
Oh, and more irrefutable evidence, people!
The Bin Laden family has absolutely no place in the oil industry!
So now we all know:
- the Bush family does not have anything to do with oil.
- the Bin Laden family does not have anything to do with oil.
That's right, George W. Bush never started the Texas Oil Company. That is a myth. Kind of like how cannabis kills brain cells is a myth. <--- PROOF!
By the way, I don't need to cite any sources, because all the information you find about Bush having anything to do with oil, and Bin Laden having anything to do with oil is all propaganda, ok?
psychocat
09-26-2007, 07:03 PM
Well said MFQR and funny too.
I like your style man.
jakez
09-26-2007, 11:02 PM
I feel bad for those people too, which is why I don't "always" argue my side with stupid pictures. Good to know we're on the same team. Anybody have anything to contribute to this thread besides undeveloped ideas, rehashed, irrelevant quotes, or rhetoric? We should close it at this rate.
Apparently no amount of evidence will be up to your unreasonable standards. The accused man admitting guilt, hm isn't that how our justice system works? I don't know what else to tell you my friend.. you're obviously going to ignore anything anyone says and just continue believing what you want so I'm not going to waste my time anymore with you.
PS: I've never heard of this "shape shifting alien" nonsense until the name callers made it up to make fun of people who are only trying to inform the public about other things..
jakez
09-26-2007, 11:09 PM
Big Oil and Auto are probably in bed. More likely than not. Why wouldn't they be.
Also, the bun makers and the hot dog people are in a conspiracy. See Father of the Bride for details.
Those cartoons are hilarious lol
lol see what I mean, you're comparing the biggest most profitable industry that exists on this planet, which obviously given human nature people would do anything to be a part of, even if it means illegal activity - to hot dog and bun makers. Which is funny anyways because I've read about Tyson chicken being involved in drug trafficking (among tons of other businesses I'm sure) but that's besides the point. Your arguments are completely pointless.
psychocat
09-26-2007, 11:31 PM
confusion; chaos; disorder: that is true anarchy BTW
In a society without laws which is self governing people like myself would only follow our own code of ethics and since I am a sociopath that would probably mean a shit load of problems for the less predatory people, it is only because there are rules against killing that I am not already guilty of murder and the removal of any kind of punishment could only result in carnage.
I know what I am talking about because I know me.
Just as I know that Americas goverment just like everyone elses is as corrupt as can be, how come they only ever investigate themselves and independent scrutiny is blocked at every turn ? Isn't that like asking a killer to provide the evidence that would hang him ?
Anyway I am now going to leave this thread to it's own devices as any real discussion went out the window the minute vostro resorted to inane and stupid analogies about carebears. A rather pathetic attempt to cloud the issue instead of an intelligent response to a proven fact that there are too many ties between Bush , WAR and the Bin Laden family to ignore.
If ignorance is bliss then Vostro must be the most blissful person ever.
He's probably a disinfo agent.
wickerbill
09-29-2007, 04:25 PM
There is no point trying to debate someone like Vostro, he has succumed to the right-wing neocon propaganda. The irony is that those same people that he would defend would not piss on him if he were on fire!:D
PlantBoxer
10-01-2007, 12:44 PM
I was reading over at PG, and some gut wrote in one of the conspiracy threads over there, that the Manhatten Project, had over 15,000 people working on it, and it sure as hell seemed to take Japan by surprise!!
911 Officail story, cannot hold up to scientific scrunity. IDK who did what to whom, buy I damn sure as shit know, it was not 19 radical Islamic fundimentalist, with box cutters. What a stupid story.
I was reading over at PG, and some gut wrote in one of the conspiracy threads over there, that the Manhatten Project, had over 15,000 people working on it, and it sure as hell seemed to take Japan by surprise!!
911 Officail story, cannot hold up to scientific scrunity. IDK who did what to whom, buy I damn sure as shit know, it was not 19 radical Islamic fundimentalist, with box cutters. What a stupid story.
Agreed, and chances are we won't ever know exactly how 9/11 went down. Well, maybe in like 50+ years.
BathingApes
11-02-2007, 08:03 PM
Vostro, are you against ALL conspiracies (EG Questioning of the accepted truth) or just certain ridiculous ones? If you're against all of them, you should probably take the chance to look again at the data.
Take 9/11 as an example; When I look at the facts, at the things that I can say for sure are true, it seems suspicious immediately, and when I see neutral scientific agencies saying that it was physically impossible in this atmosphere for the towers to fall at freefall speed, I get suspicious. Vostro, the media has every reason to broadcast what the government says, for it is controlled by them. The stories you speak of are often the result of renegade reporters or people with a conscience. These stories dont matter to the government as long as everyone still lives in fear. Have you noticed that every time something like Abu Ghraib happens, in the history of recent politics, all that will happen is the Officers involved will be jailed, and a semi-high ranking government official will appear on TV and in the papers to say how unacceptable it is. That will be the end of it. The government has to admit to some things otherwise noone would trust them, not even the brainwashed sheep of this world.
The whole point is control. Everything comes down to it. Banks, education, healthcare, debt, war on drugs, war on terror. EVERYTHING. Think how the US government have benefited since 9/11.
It all revolves around two things, money and control. As Ron Paul says, the only methods that can be used successfully to let the people submit their freedoms to the government are fear and demoralisation. Even if the government played no part in 9/11, the way they have used it to push their political agendas is diabolical and should not be tolerated. 9/11 was used for various reasons. Firstly, to promote a below-the-level anti-Muslim opinion that people hold even subconsciously. For example, if you think your opinions of Muslims to be unaffected by 9/11, next time you're at the airport note how you react when you see a Muslim put his hand in his pocket or in his bag. You feel suspicious right? That's the entire point. This anti-Middle Eastern agenda was used to push the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq (and probably Iran) on the general public. The way we are behaving as a people is similar to the way Germans behaved when Hitler was in power. In years to come we will say that we were just doing what we were told and that it was fear that kept us mentally imprisoned.
You may ask why the government would want to invade Iraq anyway. Two reasons. Oil, and more importantly, territory. There are US military bases being built in Iraq as we speak. The eyes of fear would have you believe that this is all for a reason. It is really no surprise to me that people hate the west. I am not condoning eye for an eye warfare, as the people should never pay the price unless it is their fault, and even then we arent paying attention to individuality. All of this aside, I can understand why people in the East hate the Western world. Afterall, the government is doing whatever they want and most of us are simply letting it happen.
Everything is tied in with this issue. The criminality of cannabis even. In the situation it is now they can never make it legal, as if marijuana was legal, people might get it in their heads that they can actually do something about laws, and the government doesn't want that. In the eyes of the government, conforming, concrete-loving. FOX news-watching hard workers are the best types of citizens. Have you ever seen Office space? Just like most of the people there.
It's a repeating cycle, never ending, infinite. The ONLY way to stop this is either revolution or completely changing our belief system towards the role of government in society.
"It's called the American Dream, cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
Vostro, are you against ALL conspiracies (EG Questioning of the accepted truth) or just certain ridiculous ones? If you're against all of them, you should probably take the chance to look again at the data.
Take 9/11 as an example; When I look at the facts, at the things that I can say for sure are true, it seems suspicious immediately, and when I see neutral scientific agencies saying that it was physically impossible in this atmosphere for the towers to fall at freefall speed, I get suspicious. Vostro, the media has every reason to broadcast what the government says, for it is controlled by them. The stories you speak of are often the result of renegade reporters or people with a conscience. These stories dont matter to the government as long as everyone still lives in fear. Have you noticed that every time something like Abu Ghraib happens, in the history of recent politics, all that will happen is the Officers involved will be jailed, and a semi-high ranking government official will appear on TV and in the papers to say how unacceptable it is. That will be the end of it. The government has to admit to some things otherwise noone would trust them, not even the brainwashed sheep of this world.
The whole point is control. Everything comes down to it. Banks, education, healthcare, debt, war on drugs, war on terror. EVERYTHING. Think how the US government have benefited since 9/11.
It all revolves around two things, money and control. As Ron Paul says, the only methods that can be used successfully to let the people submit their freedoms to the government are fear and demoralisation. Even if the government played no part in 9/11, the way they have used it to push their political agendas is diabolical and should not be tolerated. 9/11 was used for various reasons. Firstly, to promote a below-the-level anti-Muslim opinion that people hold even subconsciously. For example, if you think your opinions of Muslims to be unaffected by 9/11, next time you're at the airport note how you react when you see a Muslim put his hand in his pocket or in his bag. You feel suspicious right? That's the entire point. This anti-Middle Eastern agenda was used to push the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq (and probably Iran) on the general public. The way we are behaving as a people is similar to the way Germans behaved when Hitler was in power. In years to come we will say that we were just doing what we were told and that it was fear that kept us mentally imprisoned.
You may ask why the government would want to invade Iraq anyway. Two reasons. Oil, and more importantly, territory. There are US military bases being built in Iraq as we speak. The eyes of fear would have you believe that this is all for a reason. It is really no surprise to me that people hate the west. I am not condoning eye for an eye warfare, as the people should never pay the price unless it is their fault, and even then we arent paying attention to individuality. All of this aside, I can understand why people in the East hate the Western world. Afterall, the government is doing whatever they want and most of us are simply letting it happen.
Everything is tied in with this issue. The criminality of cannabis even. In the situation it is now they can never make it legal, as if marijuana was legal, people might get it in their heads that they can actually do something about laws, and the government doesn't want that. In the eyes of the government, conforming, concrete-loving. FOX news-watching hard workers are the best types of citizens. Have you ever seen Office space? Just like most of the people there.
It's a repeating cycle, never ending, infinite. The ONLY way to stop this is either revolution or completely changing our belief system towards the role of government in society.
"It's called the American Dream, cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
I agree with you completely. The only defense is to only take what the government and the press says with a grain of salt.
Innominate
11-04-2007, 10:09 PM
9/11 was planned. No doubt. The way the buildings came down is proof that there was a controlled demolition, considering the actual explosion or "bomb" that was described by many legitimate witnesses. The size of the impact on the Pentagon does not correlate with the size of an actual airliner and neither does the airliner that allegedly crashed into Pennsylvania soil. If you still think otherwise, you have not done your research, or you couldn't bare to have contempt for a corrupt government that portrays itself as "free." We are far from free, and we never will be, not with the direction this world is headed.
People don't know that thousands of American people have been murdered by their own government. I wonder how we will react when we find out the last 60 years was planned before us.
psykoactive420
11-25-2007, 04:35 PM
All these 9/11 conspiracies, what about all the popular mechanics that debunks all the theories? It seems to me a person who buys into this has already made their mind up and is not looking for bias information but a way to bash America or at the current administration.
All the claims George W is an idiot a monkey, moron, He has no clue what he is doing etc. I am sure those people have sat in on all the intelligence meetings and has all the information available to them as the government does.
I think alot of these people are just as I said, America haters and nothing more.
psychocat
11-25-2007, 06:23 PM
All these 9/11 conspiracies, what about all the popular mechanics that debunks all the theories? It seems to me a person who buys into this has already made their mind up and is not looking for bias information but a way to bash America or at the current administration.
All the claims George W is an idiot a monkey, moron, He has no clue what he is doing etc. I am sure those people have sat in on all the intelligence meetings and has all the information available to them as the government does.
I think alot of these people are just as I said, America haters and nothing more.
You raise the question of people hating America , do you ever ask yourself why there are so many countries that have a problem with the US ?
Could it be one of these things:
Interference in other countries politics. ?
Being twofaced about Nukes ?
Support for Pinochet ?
Trying to police the world ?
The US goverment is as corrupt as any other goverment.
Do you think anything has changed since the days of testing the effects of nuclear bombs in your own backyard? How many vets from these tests got compensation ?
Civilians unfortunate enough to live downwind from the tests, in towns like St. George, Utah, and Fredonia, Arizona, have also suffered disease and death. They were assured by the Atomic Energy Commission that the radiation would not harm them. But in ensuing years they have been afflicted with an outbreak of cancers and leukemia that could only have come from the test fallout. Yet, like the veterans, they have met a stone wall of governmental denial.
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