US terror law 'unconstitutional'

[660]

BBC NEWS | Americas | US terror law 'unconstitutional' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6982826.stm)

I thought this was pretty interesting. The patriot act isn't understood that well, i tried reading it for a bit but its full of paragraphs that just reference other sources. Its scarey though a lot of the freedoms american's thought it was protecting from the middle east have just been lost because of the act itself.

I guess just because a Judge said it was unconstitutional will mean it will get held up in courts for years but its good to see someone with some power making a stand.

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL.....I'd still LOVE to hear of these freedoms that I've lost. I make no international calls to terrorist ridden countries nor do I send e-mails to them..........

So, can ANYONE explain on how my "rights" have been violated? I personally think that my rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness would be more in danger if these assclowns were permitted to plan their attacks freely.

Have a good one!:s4:

[texas grass]

i dont know united nations laws, but when you are guaranteed a right of privacy or free speech or anything else and it is taken away from you, that is worse in my eyes. i would rather me or any one else die in an attack than have my KIDS FREEDOM TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE OF 1 SUICIDE BOMBER.

[Purple Banana]

Psycho- I guess you have to be in the midst of things to understand the extent. The Patriot Act supporters claim they're listening for terrorists through the phone lines; I guess they use AT&T or something, I think they get better rates if they register on a family plan...

My sister-in-law works with a large public library near Ann Arbor, and each month, she is required by the Patriot Act to submit a list of names who have checked out certain books, when, and give their numbers to a service. Not only does it take up enormous amounts of unpaid time from her schedule, but in addition to certain engineering books, a few religious ones, and history books, members often check out herbology books dealing with cannabis horticulture.

True, they shouldn't be so public about cannabis growing, (it IS Ann Arbor, though...) it's just a shame that people have to watch their backs and have their name and info sent to an agency for simply checking out a ship engineering textbook. She followed up with one of the members who had checked out a "watched" book, and he claimed he was recieving solicitation calls regarding other books he had checked out.

The right of PRIVACY is being invaded... I'm not a far-left liberal Democrat pinko, I have a good amount of Conservative values, a few liberal as well, so I'm not trying to make the US sound like 1984, but it's still unsettling that more and more cameras are being installed on my city streets. And guess what? Crime rates are going up in the areas that DO have cameras. I don't like being watched regardless of whether I am doing something illegal, or being a law-abiding citizen. Not only is it unsettling, but it is wasting money to put up these surveillance cameras, have someone montior them, and then what? Once I've been shot three times in the back, and the guy runs away with my wallet, will they be able to zoom in on my credit card number and cancel it for me?

What I'm trying to say is we DO need to protect our homeland, but not through unconstitutional methods.

[killerweed420]

Another perfect example of why we need to quit electing attorneys to public office.If they're an attorney,don't vote for them.

[Psycho4Bud]

i would rather me or any one else die in an attack than have my KIDS FREEDOM TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE OF 1 SUICIDE BOMBER.

Your kids won't be to free planted 6 ft. under.........these acts are for THEIR protection. Imagine getting a call some day stating that one of these assclowns detonated a vest in the mall the same day your family was out shopping.........

I know the whole thing leaves a bad taste in many mouths but as for myself....I'll put up with a bit of big brother looking in for the safety of the many.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

Psycho- I guess you have to be in the midst of things to understand the extent. The Patriot Act supporters claim they're listening for terrorists through the phone lines; I guess they use AT&T or something, I think they get better rates if they register on a family plan...

My sister-in-law works with a large public library near Ann Arbor, and each month, she is required by the Patriot Act to submit a list of names who have checked out certain books, when, and give their numbers to a service. Not only does it take up enormous amounts of unpaid time from her schedule, but in addition to certain engineering books, a few religious ones, and history books, members often check out herbology books dealing with cannabis horticulture.

Like I stated in the previous post......some of this does leave a bad taste but the overall safety comes first in my eyes. If they want to review my books.....have at it! I really think more detail is spent on such items as bomb making, etc..........

Have a good one!:s4:

[texas grass]

another part of this is the REAL ID CARD ACT, in may of 08 it is mandatory for all american citizens to have a federal card with either fingerprints and or eye retnal scans, social security card, and RIDF chips. that does not make you safe having all of that on you, if anything it makes you more vunerable to attacks, and can also be tracked at any moment

[texas grass]

i would rather protect myself family and neighbors together, as i feel communities can give better protection

[texas grass]

1 last thing

as your flags state it seems you are in the united nations, and you have always had monarchy/big brother


and when you take away guaranteed rights you are not so free anymore

blah blah blah and this is why most the world sucks CAUSE ITS NOT FREE

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I know the whole thing leaves a bad taste in many mouths but as for myself....I'll put up with a bit of big brother looking in for the safety of the many.
it's not so much what they have done so far with these new powers that bothers me, it's what they are capable of doing. in case you have forgotten our government's capacity for injustice, allow me to give you two recent examples - the internment of japanese americans during ww2 and the witch hunts of senator mc carthy and his ilk not long afterward. both of these were considered reasonable responses to outside aggression and they both ended up destroying the lives of countless innocent americans. even without the excuse of war (cold or hot) this government has shown itself to be more than willing to use any means protect the status quo. the history books are filled with politicians who used the power of their office and the might of the us military to quash dissenting opinion where their ideological or economic concerns were involved. the incident in ohio (kent state) was nothing compared to the state sponsored violence used in their futile attempts to destroy the organized labor movements. the list of government run atrocities is long and sad and there is no reason to believe that the political animals in charge now have suddenly found any new respect for the rights of the average citizen.

[420F4i]

Like I stated in the previous post......some of this does leave a bad taste but the overall safety comes first in my eyes. If they want to review my books.....have at it! I really think more detail is spent on such items as bomb making, etc..........

Have a good one!:s4:

The issue is the potential for misuse by officials. Specifically, the vagueness of the word Terrorism. To you and me, terrorism is when a guy blows up a building. The FBI, police, and other agencys use a much broader definition of it. Anything where an officer feels you're endangering other peoples lives, can legally be interpreted as terrorism. This goes from robbing a bank with hostages, all the way down to something as lame as speeding on a busy road.
It all comes down to an LEO's 'feelings' on the situation. The ACLU is heavily against that part, they want clarification on that, but the govt doesnt want to give up their wild card.

I have heard, but cant confirm, that '..intent to distribute' is one that they can use the patriot act to dig through your history if they dont have enough evidence.

[Psycho4Bud]

It all comes down to an LEO's 'feelings' on the situation. The ACLU is heavily against that part, they want clarification on that, but the govt doesnt want to give up their wild card.

MOST of what the ACLU is against is worth a second look.....these people are so far over the edge its rediculous.

Have a good one!:s4:

[PharmaCan]

What a lot of people seem to refuse to accept is the fact that evil does exist and that Bush and his administration are the personification of evil.

In a metaphorical sense, it is absurd to say that the devil has his good points. It is absurd to deal with the devil. It is absurd to expect anything but evil from the devil.

Bush is a globalist piece of shit who has done more in the last seven years to destroy the soveriegnty of the United States than any overt enemy of ours has ever accomplished.

Bush has allowed tens of millions of Mexicans to invade our country, destroying cities and neighborhoods and driving down wages in a manner that is rapidly destroying what little remains of our middle class. He has allowed this invasion for one simple reason - corporate profit.

I could go on and on, but the point is that Bush is an evil person and you absolutely cannot support evil, in any respect.

Adolph Hitler was the impetus behind Volkswagen Motorcars. Should we then modify his stature in history because VW is now such a great financial success?

PC :smokin:

[r0k]

Yes, I don't like it, nor do I think it is fair (Patriot Act), however, nowhere in the constitution are we guaranteed a right to privacy.

The Right of Privacy: Is it Protected by the Constitution? (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html)

[jakez]

Psycho4bud.. it must be hard defending Bush if you are reading about all the horrible shit he does. Maybe you are Psycho? I don't see how a single American can think of Bush in any kind of positive way at this point.

[medicinal]

P4B, I don't know why you are so timid or afraid, (Should I use the phrase fraidy cat)? But I am willing to take my chances with the laws the way they were before 911. We need to do some obvious things, like protect our vulnerable industries, like nuke plants and chemical plants, etc., close our borders and get rid of all illegals, watch our ports etc. But we sure as hell don't need any more laws to curb our freedoms. I am especially interested in what you do for a living as it must have to do with law enforcement of some kind. You are for everything that Bush wants, yet claim to be a MJ toker. This is a great mystery to me. Makes me wonder if Bush isn't a toker himself, My god the enemy is toking up, what worse could happen?

[Oh My High]

another part of this is the REAL ID CARD ACT, in may of 08 it is mandatory for all american citizens to have a federal card with either fingerprints and or eye retnal scans, social security card, and RIDF chips. that does not make you safe having all of that on you, if anything it makes you more vunerable to attacks, and can also be tracked at any moment
I checked out the Wikipedia entry on the Real ID act and your facts most apparently are wrong. It doesn't begin until December 2009 and does NOT require fingerprints, eye retnal scans, social security card, or RIDF chip. That's bullshit. The act simply requires all states share their DMV records with each other (which I believe to be a good thing) and requires drivers licenses to include a face, person's full name, address, signature, date of birth, sex, driver license number, which last I checked is rather standard fare for driver's license. It does require security measures to prevent "tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication" which also last I checked is pretty standard stuff. All these requirements perfectly describe my Florida license in its entirety.

REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act)

[fishman3811]

lol can you imagine P4B and Bush sharing a doobie lmao

[PharmaCan]

Maybe P4B is Bush. :eek: That would certainly explain his views.

:S2:

[sam44]

it's not so much what they have done so far with these new powers that bothers me, it's what they are capable of doing. in case you have forgotten our government's capacity for injustice, allow me to give you two recent examples - the internment of japanese americans during ww2 and the witch hunts of senator mc carthy and his ilk not long afterward. both of these were considered reasonable responses to outside aggression and they both ended up destroying the lives of countless innocent americans. even without the excuse of war (cold or hot) this government has shown itself to be more than willing to use any means protect the status quo. the history books are filled with politicians who used the power of their office and the might of the us military to quash dissenting opinion where their ideological or economic concerns were involved. the incident in ohio (kent state) was nothing compared to the state sponsored violence used in their futile attempts to destroy the organized labor movements. the list of government run atrocities is long and sad and there is no reason to believe that the political animals in charge now have suddenly found any new respect for the rights of the average citizen.

why are your posts always so amazing? :thumbsup:

[sam44]

these people are so far over the edge its rediculous.

wow :wtf:


I checked out the Wikipedia entry on the Real ID act and your facts most apparently are wrong. It doesn't begin until December 2009 and does NOT require fingerprints, eye retnal scans, social security card, or RIDF chip. That's bullshit. The act simply requires all states share their DMV records with each other (which I believe to be a good thing) and requires drivers licenses to include a face, person's full name, address, signature, date of birth, sex, driver license number, which last I checked is rather standard fare for driver's license. It does require security measures to prevent "tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication" which also last I checked is pretty standard stuff. All these requirements perfectly describe my Florida license in its entirety.

Anyone can post information on Wikepeidia. To quote it as a definitive source is laughable.

[Oh My High]

wow :wtf:



Anyone can post information on Wikepeidia. To quote it as a definitive source is laughable.
True, Wikipedia is not the end-all-be-all of sources but they do cite sources which are open to peer review and my facts as stated do hold up to be true:

Real ID Act of 2005 : Driver's License Summary (http://www.ncsl.org/standcomm/sctran/realidsummary05.htm)

[Psycho4Bud]

P4B, I don't know why you are so timid or afraid

LMAO!!! And who's crying about Big Brother "maybe" watching? I use my phone in the same manner and check out sites/books as I please........

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

Psycho4bud.. it must be hard defending Bush if you are reading about all the horrible shit he does. Maybe you are Psycho?

Your lil' jab will slide this one time.....:D


I don't see how a single American can think of Bush in any kind of positive way at this point.

I've been thinking of "Bush" in a positive way all weekend thank you very much!:D

As for Prez. Bush....he's a politician, what more can be said? Can you really state that so many others are any better? If so, who really needs a bit on insight into D.C.?

The "Patriot Act" passed Congress and Senate BEFORE being signed by Bush.....why should one branch be singled out regarding it?

Have a good one!:s4:

[jakez]

It is an entire class of people, I would never come close to thinking it is simply Bush himself..

On the Real ID Act, I think everyone should agree the entry in Wikipedia is correct, except certain information is missing. A 5 second search on google I found this article:

FAQ: How Real ID will affect you | CNET News.com (http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html)
What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

[psychocat]

In the UK we have the Anti terrorism laws and they are being abused as we speak.
You can be arrested for being in possesion of documents that could aid terrorism, this would include my school chemistry books or even a file downloaded from the net, one of them I have about the construction of various devices including how to make a microwave transmitter would also be "suspect".
I would ask everyone to watch The Power of Nightmares and read George Orwells classic 1984.
Those who support a DNA database should read this :
Tomorrow's fish and chip paper: DNA database: 1 in 8 records are incorrect; 1 in 7 are replicates (http://fishnchippapers.typepad.com/tomorrow_fish_n_chip_pape/2007/08/dna-database-1-.html)

[medicinal]

lol can you imagine P4B and Bush sharing a doobie lmao

Yeah, Bush; "So P4B, how do you think the war is going"? P4B; "Well sir, I believe it's going just fine", "In fact I was thinking, How do you like this pot, I grew it myself"? Clamor, guards rushing in, Bush; " take this criminal away, the pot is terrible, I smoked Better shit in Texas when I was buggin out on those pesky guard meetings". P4B, "But sir you said it was allright to fire one up", Bush; "I was talkin about a nuke strike on Iran".

[Psycho4Bud]

Yeah, Bush; "So P4B, how do you think the war is going"? P4B; "Well sir, I believe it's going just fine", "In fact I was thinking, How do you like this pot, I grew it myself"? Clamor, guards rushing in, Bush; " take this criminal away, the pot is terrible, I smoked Better shit in Texas when I was buggin out on those pesky guard meetings". P4B, "But sir you said it was allright to fire one up", Bush; "I was talkin about a nuke strike on Iran".

I prefer this version....:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61O3yZtsvNw

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Nah, mine is more realistic.