Need Help with HEAT.

[Chabnoc]

Where i live is very hot during the summer. I mean really hot, like 120F. for a month hot. When it is this hot, my house is about 85F inside. Now I have a 5'X5' grow room, with a 400 wat HPS and 6 42 wat cfls, and a t-15 tube light, with good venting, but if I am pumping in air at 85F, how do I keep it below 85F with out killing my wallet? I saw a small swamp cooler at Lowes for $250. this would help also with the humidity, it goes at about 30%. Any ideas on a way to keep this room cool with out breaking my bank or my amount of time? These need to be equal.

Thanks for any input you guys and gals might have.:smokebong:

[xxxhazexxx]

get more intake fans flexi ducting so you can put the fresh air where the plants need it and anouther osilatating fan to blow between the tops of the plants and the light,or the best thing is to pay the money and buy that swamp cooler,(you only get out what you put in if you grow cheap you will get shit bud ) you have to do what you have to do.If it was one of your kids you would buy it,its the same,good luck:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[GratefulDawg]

I saw those swamp coolers too and thought about picking one up - anyone have any experience with whether they work well for our purpose or not? I mean that is an awful lot of heat coming off of those bulbs, but I guess if it is a confined area it would able to cool it off no problem............

[evlme2]

Swamp coolers wil add humidity to the air. If humidity isnt a concern then go for it. Also, a swamp cooler may not be powerful enough to bring the temps down to where you want.
I live in Florida so you can imagine how hot it gets in my grow rrom. I had to break down and put a window ac in there.
Can you tape into a central air duct (if you have central air)?

[Zandor]

Dam I feel your pain, hot air in means hot air out.

Monitor the Humidity if you use a swamp cooler but an A/C is what you need, sorry dude. No real quick and easy answer.

I do know of a few who use ICE just under the air inlet and that helps a little but for months at a time that will be a pain in the ass.

For example one medical grower I know has made an ice mold that fits inside his air in duct. He used a 6" inlet but where he put the ice is 10" and then reduced to the 6" to fit his fan. There is a 6" hole in the middle of the 10" x 5" block of ice as to not restrict the air flow but cool it. He only deals with extreme heat for about 2 weeks a year. Just an FYI.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Slowes has a small A/C for 99 or just a little more. 5 or 6000 btu. It's the only way to go. It took care of my 4x6 room easy with a 1000 watt hortilux. I threw in a dehumidifier just cause of my area. The little A/c's dont dehumidify like large ones. It worth it.

[Chabnoc]

COOL!!! Thanks LOC NAR. I just did not want to spend $250 on a swamp cooler. I do not think they work all that well. I would rather pay $300 for an A/C. I will go to lowes and see about this smal AC unit.

Thanks again everyone

PS I do not think I go cheap on my grows. Last grow id did Had 5 plants and costed me $600. This time will not be so bad, because I have most all the stuff I need now.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

[Chabnoc]

What is up with the temp not supposed to get over 85f?? Some weed comes from tropical areas.. I do know that my grows before did better at lower heats.

[Al B. Fuct]

Most cannabis actually comes from temperate areas in Asia. The plant is built to cope with cold winters, thus its habit of 'annual' behaviour, where the plant produces seed then dies. The seeds carry the DNA forward through cold winters without the plant itself having to survive. Places with cold winters often don't get very high summer temps, usually for just a few weeks. True tropical plants, capable of 85F averages, come from places where there may only be 2 seasons (wet & dry) and have very different propagation habits, often being perennial or not dropping leaves in an autumnal season.

Cannabis plants start to display longer internodes at temps 80F and over (85F with CO2). This 'stretchy' habit will appear in buds as thin or spongy growth.

If you want tight, dense, solid buds, keep the temps down. 75-77, 80 on a bad day.

You're right, the setup of a grow op is the most expensive. Those who buy kits get socked the worst. If you are handy in the workshop, learn the operating theory behind what you'd like to use and DIY/build your own stuff wherever possible. I've seen $300-400 aeroponic kit systems duplicated for under $50, much less if there's junkbox or op-shop materials available to recycle. $50-60 spent at the local hardware and an hour spent in your workshop will make you a nice efficient batwing reflector that would set you back at least a couple hundred.

[LOC NAR on probation]

The heat on the plants is ok but it's your water you want cool. Water chillers are way too much for me. So I used the A/C to keep the room and rez water at 70 degrees. It's all about your water in hydro. Plant could take much more than 85. It must be over 100 when you got the 1000 watt hortilux bulb on. good ventilation for freshair and A/C keeps it under control. Cold falls to the bottom and kept my water cool. 66 to about 71 most of the time. You can tell when the roots start to rot. Not a good smell, you know it's about over then.

Al explains the buds and most climates well. If you really turn the cold on at the end most strains will start to turn purple in the cold of winter. Only thing is they are way past thier prime.

Hope we help with info and keep us posted. Zandor will bust our chops if I tell you something stupid. LOL

[Al B. Fuct]

LN, I have to disagree with you on the air temp. Gotta be 80F & down w/o CO2.

I have a pair of 1000HPS in only 500cu ft. Keeping temps down was a constant struggle in early days with this op as a/c isn't electrically feasible for me- have to rely on airflow- and a long duct length/bends are unavoidable in my case. I finally got air temps to cooperate (75-77F) when I installed a centrifugal exhaust blower and a second axial intake blower.

Still, for a few weeks in summer, my intake air can be above the 75-77 sweet spot. The ventilation system will keep the op air temp to at least as the temp of the ambient intake air.

However, when ambient temps wander up above 80F, my top colas, closest to the light, tend to 'bolt,' 'run' or grow thin strands of buds rather than the usual tightly-packed, dense buds I get when the temps are cooperating.

My next project is cool-tubing the 1000s to try to get through next summer without losing half the yield of my top colas.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Good info AL, I had a small space to cool so my cola's did alright. A/C kept it down when light was on. When I can jump back in I will keep more of an eye on that. Humidity is what I had to fight the most.

I want to cool tube also. I guess it's a must with larger area. Don't want to lose out on the weight. I like dense buds.

Thanks for the correction, it's all about learning.

[Al B. Fuct]

LN, I wouldn't have said anything if the battle for the correct temps in my op hadn't made so much difference.

Lucky you with aircon!

I use a dehumidifier to control RH when the temps are too low to trigger the exhaust thermostat (i.e. wintertime, lights off). The dehumidifier makes a bit of heat which brings temps up a little. When the room temp exceeds the thermostat setpoint, whether from lighting heat or from the dehumidifier, the blowers kick on.

You can get humidistats which you can parallel with a thermostat to control the exhaust fan, but if the ambient temp is low and the humidistat kicks the blowers on, it would cool the room below the usually acceptable ranges. I find the dehumidifier helps keep both temp and RH in range.

[Chabnoc]

I went to Lowes today to try and find that $100 A/C unit. They told me all they carry are the swamp coolers. They call them Air Coolers. These are not A/C units. A/C stands for Air Condition. Is the swamp cooler what you ment? They have one for $139. My Humidity is 30% so I should try and get that up, right?

Thanks both of you.
I learned a lot from your information.

[PharmaCan]

Where the hell you live, bro? Bumfucktegypt? I've been in and out of Lowe's a lot lately and I've seen the $99 - 6,000btu - air conditioner a whole bunch of times.

Go to Lowes.com and you'll find it there. Print the page. Go to Lowe's. Tell them "This is what I want!!!" If they say they don't have one, tell them to order it!

PC :smokin:

[Chabnoc]

Hahaha.. I live in a good sized city that gets hot as hell in summer.

Thats, I will check out Lowes.com.

The Morons at radio shack told me three times at three different stores they did not have that 60x-100x mini microscope also. Someone gave me the page with it, I printed it out and walk in and the guy said, we are out, I said can you get the INV number, They had it.

[Al B. Fuct]

My Humidity is 30% so I should try and get that up, right?


Low humidity is OK. 30% is fine. Don't add humidity.

[Al B. Fuct]

I saw those swamp coolers too and thought about picking one up - anyone have any experience with whether they work well for our purpose or not? I mean that is an awful lot of heat coming off of those bulbs, but I guess if it is a confined area it would able to cool it off no problem............

Swamp coolers are useless in a grow op. They can't reduce temperature very much and put a ton of water in the air.

High humidity is usually a big problem in grows- you really don't want to add any more. Don't waste your money on swamp coolers.

[Zandor]

Funny you say that, PSB is using one in the desert and it cools his room and only raises the humidity to 65% and that's great for plants.

Yes you sure do need to be prepaired for mildue or mold but a vapor pot does the trick and even will deal with spider mites too. It changes the Ph of the outside of the life to the point where they runaway and stay away. The ph change does not affect the plant either but they do cost about 125.00 bucks too.

Look you can always pick it up and try it for a few days and see where your humidity goes, then take it back and get an A/C that will work.

[Chabnoc]

Lowe's has a real air conditioner, for $89 (5,050 BTU). This is what I just bought today. This unit will cool 150 sq ft room. AC units work a ton better then a swamp cooler.

Oh, and do not listen to the hired help when they say they do not carry them. They are were two isles over from the swamps.

Here is the link to this AC unit.

5050 BTU Mechanical Window Type Air Conditioner (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23647-149-AW05NCM7&lpage=none)

Thanks for the help everyone..:pimp:

[Al B. Fuct]

It changes the Ph of the outside of the life

WTF does that mean?

[Al B. Fuct]

Lowe's has a real air conditioner, for $89 (5,050 BTU). This is what I just bought today. This unit will cool 150 sq ft room. AC units work a ton better then a swamp cooler.


BONZA, mate, what a deal! :)

That's SO cheap. Send me a couple. :D

[Jay702]

[quote=Zandor]Funny you say that, PSB is using one in the desert and it cools his room and only raises the humidity to 65% and that's great for plants.

You bring up a very good point about this whole thing, because the decision to go A/C or Swamp Cooler could somewhat depend on where you live. I live in the dessert and cannot afford to have the air in my growroom any drier than it already is. So I went with a swamp cooler since the A/C will dry the air. Like in the previous post, my humidity was only raised to about 45%.

[Al B. Fuct]

Funny you say that, PSB is using one in the desert and it cools his room and only raises the humidity to 65% and that's great for plants.


Well, if you raise the temp high enough (say, 33-35C), the RH will be damn difficult to keep high (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Relative_Humidity.png) as well. Try using a swamp cooler in PROPER temps... and watch the powdery mildew kill the plants in nothing flat.

[Zandor]

Well, if you raise the temp high enough (say, 33-35C), the RH will be damn difficult to keep high (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Relative_Humidity.png) as well. Try using a swamp cooler in PROPER temps... and watch the powdery mildew kill the plants in nothing flat.


You are starting to sound like my 80 year old father, "I have done it this way for 30 years and its good enough for me then everyone should be doing the same thing"

Man you need to get up on your modern science and expand your knowledge base.

Guess you did not read where I said
"Yes you sure do need to be prepared for mildew or mold but a vapor pot does the trick and even will deal with spider mites too"

Open your mind up a bit, you can still learn.

This great plant has so much to offer I would hate to see you leave some quality on the table with every grow. We learn more every year about the science of this plant. Understanding the cycle of life and the small changes that occur with this plant is what make is interesting, fun and exciting.

Just be a little more open minded and you just might learn something around here. Lots of people have value to add to the discussion and they do make valid points too.

I get that you are old school and I can respect that. But there is real science now. Where before when you and I started growing it was one hippie talking to another about how they grew. Hell the plants are even different now, then when you and I started growing. So to keep up with the plants take advantage of science. I know you think that nutrients and specific formulas are "Magic sauce" but in truth it's science.

Just water is not enough for the top shelf high quality that medical users need today.

It may take a village to raise a child but it takes science to raise high quality medical grade marijuana. Robert Clark has taught us that with his thesis paper.

Happy growing man I bet you still grow good quality weed and you are happy with your yield and your quality too. Props dude

Just listen to what science has taught is and just maybe you can learn something too you may not have know before, and that is a good thing.

Peace dude, :hippy:

[Al B. Fuct]

Zandor, if you had spent HALF the time critiquing the science as you just did criticising what you don't know about me, you'd have saved the world by now. You've managed to call me a luddite in various forms and assigned beliefs to me that I simply don't have.

When you get done with explaining 'changes the Ph of the outside of the life (http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/119809-need-help-heat.html#post1482647)' I'll take your salesman-driven pseudo-science and wives' tales on board, in spades- but not before. :D

[Chabnoc]

I have read a few times that is is better to keep the Humidity lower if possible, not only for the mold, but it helps the plant to use up the nutrients and such, instead of getting moisture from the air. I do not know this for sure, but this is what I have read. I did read that 40% was a nice number. 30-35% worked pretty good my first hydro grow. I got 1.5 OZ of some very nice bud per plant. I am sure you can grow them at 80% humidity also, if you want to fight the mold and low yield.

[Zandor]

Zandor, if you had spent HALF the time critiquing the science as you just did criticising what you don't know about me, you'd have saved the world by now. You've managed to call me a luddite in various forms and assigned beliefs to me that I simply don't have.

When you get done with explaining 'changes the Ph of the outside of the life (http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/119809-need-help-heat.html#post1482647)' I'll take your salesman-driven pseudo-science and wives' tales on board, in spades- but not before. :D


Well a full link showing where I posted that would make it easer to reply.

But in truth I am getting sick of your punk ass. I don't see you helping anyone but trying to pump up your ego around here lately.

Your games are starting to be annoying but if I miss-typed something I will correct it. But as far as I am concerned you can take your swag weed and go else where. You're taking the whole forum down a notch with your attitude and personal attacks lately.

I suggest you stop them or find a new place to hang out.

[Zandor]

I have read a few times that is is better to keep the Humidity lower if possible, not only for the mold, but it helps the plant to use up the nutrients and such, instead of getting moisture from the air. I do not know this for sure, but this is what I have read. I did read that 40% was a nice number. 30-35% worked pretty good my first hydro grow. I got 1.5 OZ of some very nice bud per plant. I am sure you can grow them at 80% humidity also, if you want to fight the mold and low yield.



You call this low yield? Your ounce & 1/2 was a low yield. Most common growers can yield 4 ounces from one plant and 6-8 Oz is just above average. Your 1 1/2 oz is considered low for all the money spent and time taken chabnoc. You can do better, I know you can. Anybody can improve their yield once you understand what the plants needs are and how much they change.

That was a 3.5 pound plant!

[Al B. Fuct]

Well a full link showing where I posted that would make it easer to reply.

But in truth I am getting sick of your punk ass. I don't see you helping anyone but trying to pump up your ego around here lately.

Gee, sorry to hear it... but you're the only person here with that opinion.

...and you're the only person who does personal attacks on users. IF you're a moderator here, Admin has not made a good choice.




Your games are starting to be annoying but if I miss-typed something I will correct it. But as far as I am concerned you can take your swag weed and go else where. You're taking the whole forum down a notch with your attitude and personal attacks lately.

I suggest you stop them or find a new place to hang out.hahahahhaahha

I don't spoze you know Karl Rove, do ya? You both live in oppositeworld. :D

If I'm such a big problem, I suppose you'll find a way to ban me.

[Chabnoc]

I am sure a lot of people get more then 1.5 oz's per plant. I know of people who get almost a pound per plant, but they are like 12' tall. and take 6 months to grow. My last grow was my first hydro grow. My plants started out in soil for 2-3 weeks, and I got so piss'd at the dam soil I pulled the plants washed the roots, (being careful) and put them in a hydro system. My plants from time the seeds cracked to time I was harvesting was just under 90 days.

My plant tray was only 12"x24" and I got almost 5 OZ's of Premo Buds, and little over an OZ of Pop Corn Buds. This was with 3 plants. I am glad my plants did not get much bigger, they were already choking each other. This is why I now have a second Hydro System for when they go into flowering stage. And the Amount of Buds is not what is really that important to me, What is most important is the Quality and the smokeability. I want people to say, Where the $*%&^$ did you get this shit!! This is some good smoke!!!!

[Chabnoc]

There is a thread out there right now, with this Huge Tight Bush of a plant. It looks very good right now, but it just went into flowering stage. If it was my plants, I would hope to hell it stretches some to get light down inside.

I do not want huge tall plants, but I also do not want a plant that is so bushy no light gets down inside either. I know this is what LST is for. This is why when in flower stage, I have a 400 watt HPS above, and (6) 43 watt CFLs and a t-5 on the sides.

OH<< I already bought my 5,050 BTU AC unit for my flower room also. This should work out very well. It was only $89 at lowes. Very sweet deal.

[Chabnoc]

Also I have to agree with AL. I can only wonder if you have children Zando. I can see it now. the Little Kid walks for the first time ever, and you sit him down and tell him he did not do well because he did not RUn the mile in under 3 minutes, because others can.

[Al B. Fuct]

Per plant yields are meaningless unless you're comparing grow ops of the same style.

In a SoG op, one deliberately grows a large number of small, short plants, flowering clones as soon as they set root and pruning off all branching on the lower 1/3 of the mainstem. The result is top quality top colas and the big, dense ol' nugs on the upper part of the mainstem. 3/4-1oz per plant in a SoG op is actually pretty good. The yield is made up by the larger quantity of plants in a SoG. Pruning off the lower branching in SoG eliminates 'popcorn' buds and prevents crowding.

If you have draconian plant count figures in your local cultivation laws, SoG probably isn't for you. However, if you don't really care what the law says, SoG will give you greater yields per amount of lighted floorspace and better avg bud density than other methods, with less floorspace devoted to vegging as you need not veg the plants you intend to flower.

[Al B. Fuct]

Also I have to agree with AL.

Chab, thanks, but it's cool. I can deal with irrational complaints by disgruntled netcops by myself. :D

[Chabnoc]

I was not trying to protect you. I am just tired of people cutting down what I am proud of. And also puting words in my mouth.

As if 1.5 oz of top of the line sweet tasting buds are bad per plant for your first try. I smoked some of this Crappy ass Bud I grew with a buddy of mine. He bagged and bagged me to sell him an OZ. I finally did, for $450. If I had grown more plants I would have sold it for $400, But I wanted to keep all of it. It was my first born.

[Al B. Fuct]

I was not trying to protect you. I am just tired of people cutting down what I am proud of. And also puting words in my mouth.

oh, right, gotcha. :smokin:



As if 1.5 oz of top of the line sweet tasting buds are bad per plant for your first try. I smoked some of this Crappy ass Bud I grew with a buddy of mine. He bagged and bagged me to sell him an OZ. I finally did, for $450. If I had grown more plants I would have sold it for $400, But I wanted to keep all of it. It was my first born.

Yeah, I see your point. I had partners in my very earliest grows too- and found them to get complicated. I fly solo now. Sometimes I really could use a hand, but it's better for a few different reasons to DIY, info security being pretty high on the list.

[Chabnoc]

Here is a few pictures, one of my light, and one of my AC unit. But i do not need them right now with the CFL's. this give me time to build a nice room, that is set up correctly.

As far as people knowing I am growing. No one knows. I do not even let people come to my house right now. I have always been a strong believer of it is very RUDE to show up at someones door with out first calling. So if someone needs to see me, I meet them somewhere else, if not, I just burn aome insents and shut off the fans and lights while they are here, and then rush them out the door.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Dudes, Lets not make this a pissing match. It's all about learning. I don't have to defend Zandor but the man helped me to no end when I started along with latewood who in no longer here. My last grow my nephew busted me with was 12 oz's from 6 plants. I was keeping them small, flowered at 8 to 12 inches in a drip system. SOG, I had 12 plants in 2 systems. I was going for a pound each month.

I would just like to see Chabnoc's grow log continue without hijacking. You have to take advice with a grain of salt. If it works for you party on.

Good luck and keep us posted on updates. I'm a solo flyer too. Let one person know and it's over. Just ask me to tell my story.

[Al B. Fuct]

I have always been a strong believer of it is very RUDE to show up at someones door with out first calling.

Oh man, am I ever with you. I have a very special hatred reserved for religious doorknockers and door-to-door salespeople. :wtf:

I TRY not to kill the Girl Scouts when they show up, but I DO ask if their Girl Scout cookies are made with real Girl Scouts. ;) Then I buy 20 boxes of Thin Mints. :D

[Al B. Fuct]

Dudes, Lets not make this a pissing match. It's all about learning.

Agreed. I don't have any particular problem with Zandor- I've liberally thieved from his FAQ entry on DIY cooltubes- and sent a thanks for that in a +rep too, if I recall correctly.

However, when it comes to the grow op, I begin and end with science. There's quite often a marked difference between a sales pitch and reality. Gimme the proof, double-blind wherever possible. If it stacks up, I'm in the head of the queue with a fistful of ducats and songs of praise. If not, I'll point out where it falls over.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Try a knock and talk from your local NARC's. Even when you know they have a warrant in thier back pocket. with a nephews name on it. Then they tell you exactly what is in your room like they have a picture. It's a bitch. I don't want to jenks myself so maybe news in a few days.

Peace.

[Al B. Fuct]

yikes, LN... I've been real lucky so far not to get that sort of rudeness at my door. Sorry to hear of your unpleasant visitation.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Thanks man, it'a all good. I like sience too.

It's easier to try , than prove it can't be done. I will try when the science is behind it. LOL

Well I'll stop hijacking. Sorry Chabnoc it's yours.

[Zandor]

I wish all of you the best with your grows!!

Happy growing!

[Chabnoc]

It is all good. I have my heat trouble all figured out for my Flowering room. At least I think so. Will have to get it up and going to see what happens. But I am sure it will be GREAT.

[Racerx]

didnt read any responses...but here is mine.

Window A/C. They can be bought brand new from Home Depot for about $350 for a good one. Used...they can usually be found for free. I found my 10,000 BTU A/C for $20 off of craigslist, but garage sales and local newspapers are great too. Just make sure the compressor works. I couldn't get mine to work when I got it, not realizing that it was only 60 degrees outside which was too cold for the thermostat to turn on so the compressor wasnt going on.

Portable A/C can be an ok temporary solution but they are expensive and not nearly as efficient. There really is no other way to drastically lower your temps.

[Chabnoc]

RacerX, I take it you did not read the whole thread or even look at the pictures. I have a picture of the new AC window unit I already bought for my new room.

Scroll up to Post #38. My room is only going to be 5'X5'. So this 5,050 BTU unit should do more then needed.

[oldsanclem]

This is off subject a little , a swamp cooler going out not in.
I used a swamp cooler to suck out the air from the room. The grow was at the beach in So. Ca.
I was growing thunderfuck and the smell was out of this world. Like a skunk in the Texas sun.
I used lysole (liquid cleaning solution) in the swamp cooler resivore. One day it ran out of Lysole (sp) and you could smell it 4 houses away. Do not use the perfume stuff as that is a dead give away to the cops.
I have alway grown next to the beach and always had the problem of RH . As with any grow good air movement does the trick.
With co2 induction you always need air movement in all directions , making sure you have one on the floor going up to move the co2 in the air as its heaver than O2 and N2 80/20
I use a ac unit at the end of a bloom cycle to drop the temps to help kickin the tricomes and like a night time temp of 65 d.f.
Using a computer to control the cycles of light,co2 controler, fans, venting, flood and drain. Makes it easy control program relayrunner is real easy to use.

[Chabnoc]

Hey Oldsanclem,

How did you get it where your computer controls everything? This sounds interesting.

I have my AC unit set at setting 5/10 for power, and my outlet fan set on the lowiest setting. My room stays at an even 78f, with 38% humidity. It has stayed there for the last 48 hours. Seems to be working very well.