Saddams Chemical Weapons

[Psycho4Bud]

I've always heard and assumed that the rumors of the U.S. being the sole supplier of Saddams chemical weapons as a true statement based on it's war with Iran........lesser of two evils thing. Been doing a bit of reading on the issue..........lol

According to Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States, West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and the People's Republic of China.[38]

In December 2002, Iraq's 1,200 page Weapons Declaration revealed a list of Eastern and Western corporations and countries, as well as individuals, that exported a total of 17,602 tons of chemical precursors to Iraq in the past two decades. By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and Federal Republic of Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[39]

According to Iraq's declarations, it had procured 340 pieces of equipment used for the production of chemical weapons. More than half came from Germany, the remainder mostly from France, Spain, and Austria. [6] In addition, Iraq declared that it imported more than 200,000 munitions made for delivering chemicals, 75,000 came from Italy, 57,500 from Spain, 45,000 from China, and 28,500 from Egypt. [7]
Iran-Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War)

If you care to look at the link it seems that the U.S. was a VERY SMALL player in "setting up" Saddam with any type of weapons..........You'll also notice that the big time sales were coming out of France, China, Russia....the same countries that were REALLY against us invading Iraq........LOL, I wonder why that is????

Have a good one!:s4:

[eg420ne]

I tell you them old pictures do get blurry..

[Psycho4Bud]

I tell you them old pictures do get blurry..
YIPPER, they sure do...........LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Uhhhh, No WMDs and No ties to al-Queda, it's a big mystery eh. Poof, they just disappeared. Maybe he had gotten rid of them, just like the weapons inspectors claimed. If you tell someone to get rid of them and your inspectors can't find any, maybe he got rid of them. Wait, thats right, He had stashed all those deadly chemicals under his bed at his castles, cause he had a psychological death wish, ~LOL~. Get over it, we invaded for wrong reasons. Sadam was an asshole, he's gone and now it's time for us to be gone also. By being there we are enabling the sectarian violence. 80% of the country wants us gone, we are the invading enemy just like China would be if they were on our streets, raping and pillaging, and blowing shit up. Let the oil Barons fight their own battles, they have the blackwater army, let those assholes fight for the oil and bring our troops home. Without our troops to back them up, Blackwater would be eradicated in days, justifiably so! Iraqi oil is for Iraqis. They will sell it to us, but not for 15% like the US oil companies want.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Get over it, we invaded for wrong reasons.
this seems to imply that there was a right reason for the war. i'm curious as to what you might consider that to be, given your rabidly cut and run attitudes.

[Psycho4Bud]

Uhhhh, No WMDs and No ties to al-Queda, it's a big mystery eh. Poof, they just disappeared. Maybe he had gotten rid of them, just like the weapons inspectors claimed.

"Well, there ya go again"...LOL This wasn't even about all that; it was just to point out that the evil neo-cons in the U.S. weren't the only ones supplying that great leader in Iraq. In fact, we were kind of at the bottom of the chain as far as the $ figure in supplies. Imagine that??:D

As far as the inspectors were concerned........their last report stated that Saddam was playing the shell game with them. We found undisclosed underground facilities.......why not let the inspectors know of these since they were empty?? :smokin:

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

this seems to imply that there was a right reason for the war. i'm curious as to what you might consider that to be, given your rabidly cut and run attitudes.

As far as I can see, there was no right reason, so your assumption is incorrect.

[Zimzum]

Oh Oh Oh who remembers Colin Powell holding up this picture!

[fishman3811]

So in the 80s Iraq attacks Iran and America helps out the attacker mmmm so who is the Axis of evil again???

[Psycho4Bud]

So in the 80s Iraq attacks Iran and America helps out the attacker mmmm so who is the Axis of evil again???

The U.S. plus Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan just to name a few. That whole Sunni region was in fear of the Shi-ites coming across the desert.

BUT....who supplied the majority of the chemicals????

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

But the shi-ites never attacked Iraq

[eg420ne]

.......:S2:

[medicinal]

The U.S. plus Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan just to name a few. That whole Sunni region was in fear of the Shi-ites coming across the desert.

BUT....who supplied the majority of the chemicals????

Have a good one!:s4:

You are stuck in limbo. The past is just that, the past. Get over it and look to the now and the near future. there is about to be chaos on a grand scale in the middle east if we don't pull out, probably even if we do pull out. The Chaos started by bushs' unilateral war against Iraq. We have opened Pandoras Box and if you look to the ancient aztec or was it Incas callender, we have untill 2012 to straighten it out or it's bye-bye baby. Don't buy any long term bonds. Buy an air raid shelter and 5 years worth of food. Me, I'll keep a loaded gun to put myself out of the misery if the nuclear fallout gets too painful. As always, the optimist!

[delusionsofNORMALity]

You are stuck in limbo. The past is just that, the past. Get over it and look to the now and the near future. there is about to be chaos on a grand scale in the middle east if we don't pull out, probably even if we do pull out. The Chaos started by bush's' unilateral war against Iraq. We have opened Pandora's Box and if you look to the ancient aztec or was it Incas calender, we have until 2012 to straighten it out or it's bye-bye baby. Don't buy any long term bonds. Buy an air raid shelter and 5 years worth of food. Me, I'll keep a loaded gun to put myself out of the misery if the nuclear fallout gets too painful. As always, the optimist!

let's see if i've got this right. we're supposed to ignore the past mistakes of others, dwell on our own past mistakes and apologize profusely for them, ignore the attacks of fanatics, obey the edicts of a council of corrupt politicians from around the world and finally give up, stick our heads between our legs and kiss our collective ass good-bye.

and i thought i was the nut job.:confused:

[Psycho4Bud]

let's see if i've got this right. we're supposed to ignore the past mistakes of others, dwell on our own past mistakes and apologize profusely for them, ignore the attacks of fanatics, obey the edicts of a council of corrupt politicians from around the world and finally give up, stick our heads between our legs and kiss our collective ass good-bye.

Ahhh, you must have read the Democratic Party Platform.

Have a good one!:s4:

[bongerstonerd00d]

Buy an air raid shelter and 5 years worth of food.

I still have that stuff left over from my Y2K kit, dont you ? I'll never be able to use up all this powdered water I bought.:rasta:


b0nger

[mrdevious]

[COLOR="Green"]You are stuck in limbo. The past is just that, the past. Get over it and look to the now and the near future.


Come now Medicinal, you of all people have ragged on the history of American policy more than 99% of the members here. And hey, more power to you! Call out the bullshit, analyse the causes, learn from the mistakes. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, I've seen you and others here do this countless times. But this thread isn't about justifying the current war, it's about clearing up the blame for arming Saddam. Don't get stuck in your own limbo.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Ahhh, you must have read the Democratic Party Platform.

meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle we're supposed to:

ingratiate ourselves with every fascist regime on earth and then blow them up when we get bored, tax the crap out of the average joe while feeding caviar to the rich out of the public coffers, force an archaic morality onto an unwilling public and spread our diseased form of democracy throughout the world (by force if necessary). please note that the apocalyptic results are essentially the same.

they're all crazy, so why is it i'm the one they're trying to lock up in a rubber room?:confused:

[Psycho4Bud]

meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle we're supposed to:

ingratiate ourselves with every fascist regime on earth and then blow them up when we get bored, tax the crap out of the average joe while feeding caviar to the rich out of the public coffers, force an archaic morality onto an unwilling public and spread our diseased form of democracy throughout the world (by force if necessary). please note that the apocalyptic results are essentially the same.

You COULD have just said manifest destiny but I guess........LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

But this thread isn't about justifying the current war, it's about clearing up the blame for arming Saddam. Don't get stuck in your own limbo.
that's the problem with all this political crap. you can't discuss one mistake without referencing a thousand other past, present and future screw-ups. it's the nature of the beast.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

You COULD have just said manifest destiny but I guess........

yeah, but i just love to type and watch what words show up. why use one word when a hundred will do.:D

[medicinal]

Oh my, you make it so complicated. Why not just call a spade a spade, Bush has fucked the world and now we must pay, in every way and every day. Yes I actually hate the SOB, a spoiled rich kid that has been coddled at every turn by Daddys men. Run rag tag by the Dick and the led to beleive that he is in charge. What a farce he is, but an evil farce for sure. He has done more to damage this country then Osama ever could. He played right into Osamas hands. Osama couldn't have planned a more destructive course for the USA than Bush has. I'll bet he sits in his cave and laughs his ass off. You could do more for this country by killing Bush and Cheney than killing one old muslim in a cave would ever do! ~LOL~, and people still play his game, idiocy is rampant. Take another hit on the Jesus pipe, ~LOL~ what a bunch of hypocrites. Killing for Jesus, the Bush doctrine.

[Staurm]

Didn't I hear somewhere recently that Iraq has never been recognised internationally as a sovereign state, and actually still belongs to Persia or something?

[Psycho4Bud]

Didn't I hear somewhere recently that Iraq has never been recognised internationally as a sovereign state, and actually still belongs to Persia or something?

They've been recognized since post WW2.

Have a good one!:s4:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Yes I actually hate the SOB, a spoiled rich kid that has been coddled at every turn by Daddys men.

bush is no evil mastermind. compared to the captains of industry in the global community he's an amateur who needs to be propped up by his handlers and spoon fed the propaganda he spews. he is merely another tool in a long line of tools, another victim of misdirected faith and an idiot's belief in the infallibility of a seriously flawed system. if anything, you should feel sorry for the poor bastard. thanks to his own stupidity and horribly corrupt and uncaring counsel, he will undoubtedly go down in history as one of this nation's worst presidents.

[Psycho4Bud]

bush is no evil mastermind. compared to the captains of industry in the global community he's an amateur who needs to be propped up by his handlers and spoon fed the propaganda he spews. he is merely another tool in a long line of tools, another victim of misdirected faith and an idiot's belief in the infallibility of a seriously flawed system. if anything, you should feel sorry for the poor bastard. thanks to his own stupidity and horribly corrupt and uncaring counsel, he will undoubtedly go down in history as one of this nation's worst presidents.

They're ALL politicians.....that should be enough said right there. I still firmly believe that we need to clean out D.C. of the Lawyers and start getting some businessmen/women in there. We have credits, debits, inventory levels, growth programs........

As far as the worst of the worst.......I still gotta stick to Carter. We'll feed the WORLD! By all the farm equipment you can at an adjustable interest rate........then he throws on embargos to our largest export consumers. Interest rate clime to double digit along with inflation. Our military becomes the joke of the Superpowers at the time. Oh well, to each his own........maybe the worst of the two evils?

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

I thought Carter was one of your best Presidents but when he was around i was only 10 so what do i know at that age....

[Breukelen advocaat]

I thought Carter was one of your best Presidents but when he was around i was only 10 so what do i know at that age....
When Carter was in, I was quite a bit older than 10. He was a royal screw-up. Millions of Americans voted for Reagan, just to be rid of Jimmy Carter.

fighting words
Peanut Envy
The latest absurdities to emerge from Jimmy Carter's big, smug mouth.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, May 21, 2007, at 11:35 AM ET



Almost always, when former President Jimmy Carter opens his big, smug mouth, he has already made the psychological mistake that is going to reduce his words to absurdity. When he told the press last week that the Bush administration had aroused antipathy around the world, he might have been uttering no more than a banality. But no, he had to try to invest it with a special signature flourish. So, he said instead:

I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history. The overt reversal of America's basic values as expressed by previous administrations, including [those of] George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon and others, has been the most disturbing to me.

Leave aside the sophomoric slackness that begins a broken-backed sentence with the words "as far as" and then cannot complete itself. "Worst in history," as the great statesman from Georgia has to know, has been the title for which he has himself been actively contending since 1976. I once had quite an argument with the late Sen. Eugene McCarthy, who maintained adamantly that it had been right for him to vote for Ronald Reagan in 1980 for no other reason. "Mr. Carter," he said, "quite simply abdicated the whole responsibility of the presidency while in office. He left the nation at the mercy of its enemies at home and abroad. He was the worst president we ever had."

I still think Richard Nixon has to be the prime candidate here, but you will notice that Jimmy Carter evinces nostalgia for that period, too. Apparently, the Christmas bombing of Vietnam, the invasion of Cambodia, the subversion of democracy in Chile, the raising of illegal slush funds, and the attempt to bug the Democratic National Committee offices were assertions of America's "basic values." Leave aside Carter's newfound admiration for Ronald Reagan, who is now undergoing a more general historical revision thanks to the work of professors Diggins and Brinkley, and just concentrate for a moment on what he says about George Bush Sr. What did he say at the time? Many people in retrospect think Bush did a good job in assembling a large multinational coalition, under U.N. auspices, for the emancipation of Kuwait from Iraqi occupation. But Jimmy Carter used his prestige, at that uneasy moment, to make an open appeal to all governments not to join that coalition. He went public to oppose the settled policy of Congress and the declared resolutions of the United Nations and to denounce his own country as the warmonger. And, after all, why not? It was he who had created the conditions for the Gulf crisis in the first placeâ??initially by fawning on the shah of Iran and then, when that option collapsed, by encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and by "tilting" American policy to his side. If I had done such a thing, I would take very good care to be modest when discussions of Middle Eastern crises came up. But here's the thing about self-righteous, born-again demagogues: Nothing they ever do, or did, can be attributed to anything but the very highest motives.

Here is a man who, in his latest book on the Israel-Palestine crisis, has found the elusive key to the problem. The mistake of Israel, he tells us (and tells us that he told the Israeli leadership) is to have moved away from God and the prophets and toward secularism. If you ever feel like a good laugh, just tell yourself that things would improve if only the Israeli government would be more Orthodox. Jimmy Carter will then turn his vacantly pious glare on you, as if to say that you just don't understand what it is to have a personal savior.

In the Carter years, the United States was an international laughingstock. This was not just because of the prevalence of his ghastly kin: the beer-sodden brother Billy, doing deals with Libyan President Muammar Qaddafi, and the grisly matriarch, Miz Lillian. It was not just because of the president's dire lectures on morality and salvation and his weird encounters with lethal rabbits and UFOs. It was not just because of the risible White House "Bible study" sessions run by Bert Lance and his other open-palmed Elmer Gantry pals from Georgia. It was because, whether in Afghanistan, Iran, or Iraqâ??still the source of so many of our woesâ??the Carter administration could not tell a friend from an enemy. His combination of naivete and cynicismâ??from open-mouthed shock at Leonid Brezhnev's occupation of Afghanistan to underhanded support for Saddam in his unsleeping campaign of megalomaniaâ??had terrible consequences that are with us still. It's hardly an exaggeration to say that every administration since has had to deal with the chaotic legacy of Carter's mind-boggling cowardice and incompetence.

The quotation with which I began comes from an interview that he gave last week to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. He also went on the British Broadcasting Corporation to make spiteful and cheap remarks on the retirement of Prime Minister Tony Blair, calling him "loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Yes, that's right, Mr. Carter. Just the way to make friends and assert "America's basic values." Show us your peanut envy. Heap insults on a guest in Washington: a thrice-elected prime minister who was the first and strongest ally of the United States on the most awful day in its recent history. A man who was prepared to risk his own career to be counted as a friend. A man who was warning against the Taliban, against Slobodan Milosevic, and against Saddam Hussein when George Bush was only the governor of Texas. Leaders like that deserve a little respect even when they are wrongâ??but don't expect any generosity or courtesy from the purse-mouthed preacher man from Plains, who just purely knows he was right all along, and who, when that fails, can always point to the numberless godly victories that he won over the forces of evil.

The latest absurdities to emerge from Jimmy Carter's big, smug mouth. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2166661/)

[delusionsofNORMALity]

They're ALL politicians.....that should be enough said right there. I still firmly believe that we need to clean out D.C. of the Lawyers and start getting some businessmen/women in there.

the basic dilemma is that old saw - power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

as long as the people are kept at arms length from the decisions being made on their behalf, there will be those who take advantage of that distance to enrich themselves and their pet causes. when government gets too big for the population to keep an eye on it, the possibilities for corruption are too numerous to control. only by placing more of the authority into smaller, more localized bodies can the people regain control over the criminals who naturally gravitate to positions of power.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I thought Carter was one of your best Presidents

if i were trapped between bush and carter i would most likely slash my own throat.