Click This Sober If You Can

[Inferius]

I warned you in the subject title...

If you have problems in your life of any kind right now,
Read this.
When I was shown this, my life changed.
My world made sense,
and I started to grow and heal, develop emotionally and intellectually and in all ways you could imagine. As marijuana users, I find we tend to have a similar trait in being slightly more open to healing ourselves, slightly more open to understanding ourselves.
Loving the entire world is very possible.
Loving yourself is a start.

What is codependency / codependence ? (http://www.silcom.com/~joy2meu/codependency1.html)





12 step programs seem flawed.
But I want some of you to think about this...
We are human. To fully accept your humanity, is to fully accept all parts of your scientific bioligical make-up. You cannot Deny your humanity, as the perspective of denial COMES from your humanity.
Lately, scientists are discovering that the brain is actually wired for religious expirience. This doesn't DENY spirituality, but instead, PROMOTES it.
If our brains did not have any part of what they've developed,
we wouldn't be able to perceive life from that perspective.
So, why would our brains have spiritual awakening in them? Why not embrace our own humanity completely, A humanity which actually says YES, spirituality IS part of the human expirience, and feeling One With All, is certainly considered part of this spiritual realm.
Therefore, in order to embrace that aspect of being human, 12 step programs admit that there is a higher power. They do not admit to there being a God, merely a HIGHER POWER. Something greater than they can perceive empathically, but definitaly something they can connect to on a human level.
This, is unconditional love for the self, and in return, unconditional love for Life.

I have read love being compared to emotional wavelengths, spiritual vibrations. They say love, unconditional pure love, is the highest wavelength of them all. Some beleive it to be the life-source, the Being, The expirience of the Higher Power. Occasionally, using psychedelics as a tool, people are able to tap into this higher power expirience. However, if we could go back in time and re-program the child's mind not to expirience the separation of unconditional love and Self, all of us would be like children.
Intuitively completely Whole.

In mel gibsons movie Apocalypto, there is a beginning scene in which the elder tells a story to the youth at night by the fire.
He speaks of man taking all the good things he can from all the animals,
and keeping them for himself. But when man comes to the Snake, the snake bites him, ripping a hole in man. Because of that Hole, man never feels complete. He keeps wanting more, and more, and more, to fill that hole, but the hole just keeps getting bigger as time goes on.

This hole is the separation from the higher power, from the love.
Advanced society pushes this concept even further into our faces every day,
it is what drives Economy, Greed, Codependance, Addiction, and Pain in general.
I was on psychedelics while I was watching this movie, and only now have I begun to understand why I felt intuitively that there was something startlingly important about the way these indians lived. Simplifying it removes the objective of attaining more external crap.

Later, in that same movie, the natives are forced into the kind of society we live in today, by that very society. They are not peaceful, nor in harmony with themselves. The society of separation removes the intuitive funtioning of love within a human being. It programs us to ignore the emotional foundation of our true beings and live in a rationally darkened world.

We might never have "proof" of a "higher being", but we are starting to understand Ourselves, and the human mind only works in certain ways.
By getting in touch with our humanity, intuitively and scientifically,
we can Heal the world, from a human perspective.

I would love to hear your thoughts.

[Inferius]

Meh, it bored me. Sorry man, but I just don't see in it what you do. I'm not disrespecting, just saying it's not clicking with me.

So you don't actually have anything to say other than an immediate lack of interest? I admit that I don't know you, but I am learning that when someone blanks out, loses interest, or starts thinking very fast in order for the ego to defend itself, it's usually a symptom that there is something to look further into.

As for anyone else who reads this, I would prefer it for you to have a slightly more developed conclusion in your post.
You can post w/e you want of course, I appreciate all opinions.

[PureEvil760]

You guys are doing exactly what that link is talking about, lol. Its just cause America has snowballed doing this for so long now we're really fucked up.

[Polymirize]

Sure, those are all good thoughts. I think you started really strong and ended weaker. I think I totally agree about spirituality and mystical understanding being some latent potential of humankind.

Where I'd be cautious, is with the like preservation of the very human drive to learn, to be curious, and to grow.

I think science is an incredible tool for enriching our understanding of the universe as well. The return to a more rudimentary way of life is not practical or desirable. We just need to relearn the principles of sustainability and carry them with us into the future.

[PureEvil760]

The answer to all of humankind's problems is so simple, that most people cant even see it. Why do you think the act of meditation is doing..nothing?

[Inferius]

So it can't possibly be because I do not relate?

Damn, I guess I better start reading then. [/sarcasm]

:thumbsup:

EDIT: It's not that it doesn't interest me, it's just that you're asking us to read it like it's going to change our lives. Well, it didn't change mine.

I don't see the point in making a post merely to say something doesn't interest you. I am interested in who you are billionfold, but in a thread with so much thought it just doesn't make much sense to me to say, That's Boring. I love that you can express your opinion, but why express an opinion with no thought tied to it? Still, I appreciate your posts.

And I'm not asking you to interpret it in any way. I am merely giving my own interpretation, and in that other thread I merely made a point that if one were to give a little bit of effort and determination into reading, they may choose to gain from it.

The ending was actually completely stream of consciousness, I was feeling really confident and was seeing connections in things that I've been pondering for some time now.

Polymirize, I agree completely, I didn't really mean to make the old Let's Become Caveman point all over again, I only wanted to tie a few ideas together.

[Polymirize]

I bet nobody gets why I said "hunams".


Is it because you think we're merely highly evolved, self conscious yams?

[Inferius]

Star Control

[Matt the Funk]

I'm pretty drunk still....and thi mkaes no sense.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

that is a very interesting article, but i am not very concentrated right now... i brought it up to a couple friends and one took an objective approach, while the other did the same but tried to justify that kind of behavior.


i found it amusing, so i guess i too am codependant on the reactions of others, however this is a very stimulating topic! im going to share the fun on mysapce n_n

[Matt the Funk]

Alright, I sorta skimmed through it and nothing was really interesting about. You don't have to be spiritual to love life, but if it helps you, why not be spiritual? I just don't think the article itself was relevant to anything. It just seemed like it was trying to hard to prove that God was real in a subtle way, but thats probably just what I got out of it. Also I kinda agree with billion. Us humans are so fucking full of ourselves. Does anyone ever think about other animals? I mean, there are billions of them I bet. Also I bet if you knew enough about most fields of science, somehow all religions could be proved false. Just my :twocents:

[Bob the Awesome]

I looked at the site... I kinda see where they're coming from and what it is they're referring to, but it seems... overdone and overthought. I dunno, the way I see it, if this caused you to grow and become a better, more altruistic person, all the better :jointsmile:

However, 12-Step Programs are COMPLETE CRAP. All it is is government-mandated religion, which goes against classic-liberal concepts of seperation of church and state. I can't support any idea which says 12-step is good. Go watch the Penn and Teller episode on 12-stepping, while it's still got the libertarian bias of all episodes it helps show how kooky those people are.

I looked over some more of the site... actually, I've ran into what they refer to as 'dysfunctional' relationships among many of my friends, and I've thought extensively on this subject. While I never thought in the terms of this site, it does seem to share some of the same ideas I have... I recently fixed my own problems related to this sorta thing though *snaps* Oh well

[Purple Banana]

Spirituality and religious parts of the brain are simply evolved features that help humans use things like a god/goddess(es) to explain what we do not know. Notice as humans evolve, so does the type of religion- there aren't many humans left who truly believe in the Zeus/Athena type, nor Thor, Raa, ect.

[anandamide]

Spirituality and religious parts of the brain are simply evolved features that help humans use things like a god/goddess(es) to explain what we do not know. Notice as humans evolve, so does the type of religion- there aren't many humans left who truly believe in the Zeus/Athena type, nor Thor, Raa, ect.

Good point.

Many of my religious friends say they KNOW there is a god because they have felt something spiritual. But these "spiritual experiences" are explainable today by the latest research in such fields as neurobiology and neuropharmacology. Having a "spiritual experience" doesn't prove God exists any more than swimming in the ocean proves Poseidon exists. I've had experiences of oneness and connectedness so I know what they feel like, and I'm guessing these feelings may be responsible for the invention of religion in the first place back when Homo sapiens was evolving.

[Inferius]

You can scientifically rationalize all aspects of the human expirience,
because everything is biological. But I love being human. I love feeling emotions and thinking thoughts, and maybe even delving into the biological processes that allow me to feel my Higher Self. I do not consider it "proof" of anything, merely that I want to utilize all aspects of my mind for the greater good of my mental and physical health.

If someone wishes to interpret the "godlyness" aspects of their human expirience as proof of something greater than themselves, that is their choice. Personally, I am going to interpret it as a wonderful self discovery that I am capable of of perceiving, like any other expirience.
And I see god as a crutch for fear.
I have faith in myself, and in humanity, not in God. I know that the "spiritual" expirience is highly controversial, but I think that's because none of us has the exact same expirience. It is up to us to decide whether we beleive the expirience comes from within, or from some unreachable Controller.

I choose within.

[anandamide]

You can scientifically rationalize all aspects of the human expirience,
because everything is biological. But I love being human. I love feeling emotions and thinking thoughts, and maybe even delving into the biological processes that allow me to feel my Higher Self. I do not consider it "proof" of anything, merely that I want to utilize all aspects of my mind for the greater good of my mental and physical health.

I love being human as much as you do. The fact that our evolution is scientifically explainable doesn't take anything away from the wonder of consciousness. If anything, it's more wonderful that life evolved, and then humans capable of self-awareness evolved, than if it's all explained by a miracle. That I am conscious and can look up into the night sky at billions of stars and billions of galaxies is fucking incredible. What a short time (in the scheme of things) we each have to enjoy life. And one of the best aspects of enjoying life is in the relationships we have with each other. That there is a scientific explanation for life doesn't take anything away from the incredibleness of it all.



If someone wishes to interpret the "godlyness" aspects of their human expirience as proof of something greater than themselves, that is their choice.

Absolutely it is their choice. And living in the US, we have the freedom to believe as we want. Where I have a problem is where believers go from having a personal connection to what they call god, to trying to legislate morality and making the rest of us live as they see fit.



Personally, I am going to interpret it as a wonderful self discovery that I am capable of of perceiving, like any other expirience.
And I see god as a crutch for fear.

You and I are going to agree here. How wonderful that we exist, and more than that, that we are conscious and aware of the universe around us. And even more wonderful when we modify that consciousness with THC and contemplate the universe. Go outside this evening right after sunset if it's not cloudy where you live. Venus is very close to the crescent Moon. Our ancestors thought these lights in the sky were Gods. To me, it's even more incredible that they aren't.



I have faith in myself, and in humanity, not in God. I know that the "spiritual" expirience is highly controversial, but I think that's because none of us has the exact same expirience. It is up to us to decide whether we beleive the expirience comes from within, or from some unreachable Controller.

I choose within.

I'm with you on that one.

And my faith in humanity is restored a little bit when I talk to someone like yourself that can at least say why you believe as you do.

[Inferius]

I'm happy, I like seeing someone on the same page as me.
The moon and venus lately I see as very poetic, the afternoon sky clear except for a crescent and one, singular, throbbing light.
It's all connected. Astrology has a lot of muck in it, but so does anything that complicated. But i'm discovering that, unconsciously, I do interact with those big lights in the sky and expirience things, sometimes, corresponding to what astrology says. Which leads to me to question that whole 2012 thing... What will happen when the planets align?
I can't wait.
Everything is so beautiful.
Peace and love.

[Purple Banana]

I verily understand what you mean by your previous post, Inferius. I too feel those same feelings when I see the beauty that lies in an intricate moth wing, or the myriad of stars in the sky at night... My beliefs lie more with pagan ideaology- That is, I am not Wiccan, nor part of any major recognized religious group, but I simply recognize each animal, plant, and bacteria is its own existence. These feelings do have a lot to do with neurochemical pathways, I'm sure, but for the most part, everything we do is determined by our mindsets.

Now I'm off to smoke a bowl under the stars :thumbsup:

[Polymirize]

I'm guessing these feelings may be responsible for the invention of religion in the first place back when Homo sapiens was evolving.

We need new dreams now, but still dreams, as we begin to leave homo sapien behind...


On a sidenote, yeah, the moon and venus have been fantastic lately. Totally struck me last night as the sun was setting. Glad to hear other people are noticing...

:thumbsup: