The Origin and Destiny of Life?

[Jah420]

So it's a scientific fact that energy, in any form, can neither be created or destroyed, only transfered.

But what about life?
It's something i've been thinking about for a while now but I cant seem to talk to people about it without them drifting off on the whole 'ghosts and supernatural' tangent.. it always seems to go a bit hollywood in conversation and it gets on my nerves.

So.. is there a point somewhere in which 'life' starts? I guess you could trace it back to sperm, but I don't consider sperm to be life, I just consider it to be a living cell. Where does life start? And more importantly to me, where does it end? Does it end? All these thoughts going through my head and no amount of deep thinking, or cannabis for that matter, gets me anywhere close to even approaching any aspect of a solution.

I'd like to say now, of course everyone is free to express their opinions on the subject, but what I don't want is people trying to herd me towards christian beleifs, sorry, It just won't be happenin'.

But.. yeah.. if anyone's had similar thoughts or anythin.. go ahead :smokin:

[Marijuana connoisseu]

Your head will explode if you keep asking these questions. That, or the government will kill you.

[afghooey]

Just because a sperm cell doesn't have the capacity for reasoning doesn't mean that it's not alive. If that's your criteria for defining life, then life ends where reasoning ceases.

Personally, I think the line drawn between 'life' and 'non-life' is an illusion; everything is alive to some degree (or nothing is, depending on your perspective), it's just that the things which we generally consider to be alive are much more complex.

[Mayack419]

Only life can create life. Only life can create death. I generally rely on statistics. Unlike people, numbers don't lie. I know it may sound unrelated, but I personally believe that their is an afterlife. I came to this conclusion through pure logic. As well as the fact that there is a god. Through logic once again I attained this info. What are the two possibilities from where the human race stands right now? 1: Out of the trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and, well you get the point, of planets, we are the only intelligent creatures in the WHOLE universe. Highly unlikely. 2: The universe is full of life from stem to stern. Much, much more likely. We have "the Earth was created in 7 days" theory, just to name one. And we have the Big Bang theory. Now, because the way logic works, everything comes from something and becomes something else. Over and over and over, much like the energy transference you were speaking of. Let's take the Big Bang theory. The whole universe was created from nothing. Wait a minute, that doesn't agree with logic. What is the only logical answer that we can come to that would allow for a definate beginning with nothing their before? God. It is the only logical answer, because EVERYONE, regardless of their religion, believes that god is everlasting and almighty, 2 things which are necessary to be obnipitent. So, since I have the conclusion that there IS a God, it makes me wonder, is there an afterlife? Of course there is. Or else all the life on these trillions and trillions of planets would be pointless. Maybe I should make a movie. "All Aliens Go To Heaven".

[afghooey]

I don't believe in an 'afterlife', because it's a complete oxymoron. :P

If there's something after life, then it's not life. If life never ceases, then there's no such thing as death. (either way, the term 'life after death' contradicts itself).

Also, the big bang theory doesn't say that the universe came out of nothing, it says that the universe came out of a singularity. Big difference.

[Mayack419]

A small singularity compared to the huge vastness of area covered now? Might as well be nothing. Either way. the question still remains. where did the singularity come from? My point is still valid. And the terms life and death are relevant terms. From our perspective your one or the other. Relative terms usually are contradictory.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

life, mind, consciousness, awareness, spirit, soul.


these are the players of the ultimate MMORPG.


the game is energy, matter, and physics.


we, the life, play matter, the game.



your body is but a piece of clothing for your mind.

it is but a vehicle of experience and sensation.


the mind uses energy and matter to create the illusion of life. or more appropriately, it uses these things to create the illusion of death.

[afghooey]

A small singularity compared to the huge vastness of area covered now? Might as well be nothing. Either way. the question still remains. where did the singularity come from? My point is still valid. And the terms life and death are relevant terms. From our perspective your one or the other. Relative terms usually are contradictory.

What does size have to do with anything? That's like saying a seed might as well be nothing just because it takes up so much less area, so how did the tree get there? As for where the singularity came from... it's theorized that eventually the universe will eventually contract back into a singularity again. Maybe it's just a cycle that's been going on forever.

If something MUST have a beginning in order to exist, then how did God begin?

[40oz]

Hey I think all you guys would really be interested in this movie if you have never seen it: Genesis (2004) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287457/). It's a pretty cool and thought provocing documentary about life. It deals exactly with everything you were talking about Jah.

As for me, I don't really have much to say on the subject. I've realized that when it comes to life there are no answers, just questions.

[PureEvil760]

life, mind, consciousness, awareness, spirit, soul.


these are the players of the ultimate MMORPG.


the game is energy, matter, and physics.


we, the life, play matter, the game.



your body is but a piece of clothing for your mind.

it is but a vehicle of experience and sensation.


the mind uses energy and matter to create the illusion of life. or more appropriately, it uses these things to create the illusion of death.

Did you just compare life to an mmorpg? lol nice.

[Jah420]

What is the only logical answer that we can come to that would allow for a definate beginning with nothing their before? God. It is the only logical answer, because EVERYONE, regardless of their religion, believes that god is everlasting and almighty, 2 things which are necessary to be obnipitent.

Wait.. so.. you beleive wholeheartedly in god for the sole reason that you can't find any other explanation for life?
.. well I can honestly say i've never heard of anyone being religious in that way before.. its like:

"*Sigh*.. well I guess the answer isn't right under my nose so it must be this god guy everyone's on about.. case closed"

:wtf:

Well if it makes you happy.

[Jah420]

Hey I think all you guys would really be interested in this movie if you have never seen it: Genesis (2004) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287457/). It's a pretty cool and thought provocing documentary about life. It deals exactly with everything you were talking about Jah.

As for me, I don't really have much to say on the subject. I've realized that when it comes to life there are no answers, just questions.

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint 40oz.. and thanks for that link, i'll check that film out :thumbsup:




Just because a sperm cell doesn't have the capacity for reasoning doesn't mean that it's not alive. If that's your criteria for defining life, then life ends where reasoning ceases.

Personally, I think the line drawn between 'life' and 'non-life' is an illusion; everything is alive to some degree (or nothing is, depending on your perspective), it's just that the things which we generally consider to be alive are much more complex.

Capacity for reasoning isn't my criteria for 'Life' as such. If I have to put my criteria into words I would say life is present when the living cell becomes a sentient being. What i'm saying is that i'm not happy to accept that such a huge step occurs simply through development and growth of living tissue into an organism that is capable of processing and directing electrical impulses.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Only life can create life. Only life can create death. I generally rely on statistics. Unlike people, numbers don't lie....
where to begin?

let's start with this first ludicrous statement. your definitions of life and death must be very narrow indeed to honestly believe such a fallacy. though we understand much of the mechanics of life, we have never even come close to understanding its origins or even the reason for life as we understand it (if there is any point to this absurd anomaly). in the vastness of known space we have yet to come across anything even remotely similar to what we describe as life, so why is life of such paramount importance? to believe that such life is of any consequence on a cosmic scale is just another of man's petty conceits. isn't it more likely that the life of this universe is the interplay of matter and energy, galaxies crashing and dancing through an emptiness filled with the particles that are the true life of the universe and that what we consider life is no more than the occasional unexpected belch of foul vapors and and useless sludge left over from the stars at play?

since you seem to find it unfathomable that what you define as life is nothing more than a hiccup in the workings of the universe, it shouldn't surprise me that you place so much faith in the religion of numbers and statistics. those tiny ideas that we use to quantify our tiny portion of what little we perceive. we start with zero and build, stacking imaginary quantities upon illusory qualities, creating a false sense of logic from chaos we have no hope of understanding. numbers are nothing but a lie! we have created them to try and capture the infinite and in our vanity we don't see that as we manipulate those numbers we compound the lie. to consider our starting point as zero is to deny all that exists within that nothingness. we cannot comprehend the void so we consider it as empty, a blank slate on which to build our fantasy. we place so much importance on what comes next, what we have quantified and compartmentalized. those insignificant portions of reality that we perceive and believe that we can understand. what is next, the infinite? nothing more than the starting point that we failed to understand in the first place.

if the connection between nothing and the infinite is never seen, why should it surprise any one that it is believed by so many that something cannot come from nothing? it is so much easier to believe that all of this either always was and always will be or that it is the work of the tooth fairy. that fear of the nothing that we fail to see is really the everything leads us to hope we are trapped eternally in the small fantasy that we create by believing only that which we can grasp with our greedy little minds.

for those of you interested enough to search, the preceding paragraphs are simple enough to find. for the rest of you i have masked the text so as not to offend your sensibilities.

[Jah420]

delusionsofnormality...

Uh.. nice touch to that last post.. but I think you've just about managed to swoop right over my head. I can just imagine that whole hidden bit being read out in a really deep wise-sounding voice at the apex of an intense shr**m trip.

You got me thinking there about numbers in a way i'd only just managed to grasp about words.

But.. to clarify..

"what we consider life is no more than the occasional unexpected belch of foul vapors and and useless sludge left over from the stars at play"

Is that, in your opinion, what sentient life is?
Or is it just a theory you are presenting?

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Is that, in your opinion, what sentient life is?
Or is it just a theory you are presenting?
i guess it's just my overblown way of stating the obvious fact that what we consider life is of little or no importance when considered on the vast scale of the universe. when faced with the apparent sparseness of life, one should at least be open to the possibility that it is merely an accidental happenstance and not the great achievement we seem to believe it to be. i find those who grasp feebly at the notion of eternal life to be tiresomely absorbed with the preeminence of humanity in a universe in which they are merely a powerless flyspeck awaiting their eventual extinction.