Feminism (male input welcomed)

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Y'all (slow and ba) give me a headache. I'm going to post on a fun thread so I'm "up" and happy first, then I'll come back.

I'll give you this much...you two are persistent, despite being roundly trounced by women who are clearly your intellectual betters. But hey, why let a little thing like reality stand in the way of dogma?

[Breukelen advocaat]

Equal Pay Act

[align=center]Equal Pay and Compensation Discrimination[/align]

The right of employees to be free from discrimination in their compensation is protected under several federal laws, including the following enforced by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC): the Equal Pay Act of 1963, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, and Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

The Equal Pay Act requires that men and women be given equal pay for equal work in the same establishment. The jobs need not be identical, but they must be substantially equal. It is job content, not job titles, that determines whether jobs are substantially equal. Specifically, the EPA provides:

Employers may not pay unequal wages to men and women who perform jobs that require substantially equal skill, effort and responsibility, and that are performed under similar working conditions within the same establishment. Each of these factors is summarized below:

Skill - Measured by factors such as the experience, ability, education, and training required to perform the job. The key issue is what skills are required for the job, not what skills the individual employees may have. For example, two bookkeeping jobs could be considered equal under the EPA even if one of the job holders has a master's degree in physics, since that degree would not be required for the job.

Effort - The amount of physical or mental exertion needed to perform the job. For example, suppose that men and women work side by side on a line assembling machine parts. The person at the end of the line must also lift the assembled product as he or she completes the work and place it on a board. That job requires more effort than the other assembly line jobs if the extra effort of lifting the assembled product off the line is substantial and is a regular part of the job. As a result, it would not be a violation to pay that person more, regardless of whether the job is held by a man or a woman.

Responsibility - The degree of accountability required in performing the job. For example, a salesperson who is delegated the duty of determining whether to accept customers' personal checks has more responsibility than other salespeople. On the other hand, a minor difference in responsibility, such as turning out the lights at the end of the day, would not justify a pay differential.

Working Conditions - This encompasses two factors: (1) physical surroundings like temperature, fumes, and ventilation; and (2) hazards.
Establishment - The prohibition against compensation discrimination under the EPA applies only to jobs within an establishment. An establishment is a distinct physical place of business rather than an entire business or enterprise consisting of several places of business. However, in some circumstances, physically separate places of business should be treated as one establishment. For example, if a central administrative unit hires employees, sets their compensation, and assigns them to work locations, the separate work sites can be considered part of one establishment.
Pay differentials are permitted when they are based on seniority, merit, quantity or quality of production, or a factor other than sex. These are known as "affirmative defenses" and it is the employer's burden to prove that they apply.

In correcting a pay differential, no employee's pay may be reduced. Instead, the pay of the lower paid employee(s) must be increased.

Title VII, ADEA, and ADA

Title VII, the ADEA, and the ADA prohibit compensation discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, or disability. Unlike the EPA, there is no requirement under Title VII, the ADEA, or the ADA that the claimant's job be substantially equal to that of a higher paid person outside the claimant's protected class, nor do these statutes require the claimant to work in the same establishment as a comparator.

Compensation discrimination under Title VII, the ADEA, or the ADA can occur in a variety of forms. For example:

An employer pays an employee with a disability less than similarly situated employees without disabilities and the employer's explanation (if any) does not satisfactorily account for the differential.

A discriminatory compensation system has been discontinued but still has lingering discriminatory effects on present salaries. For example, if an employer has a compensation policy or practice that pays Hispanics lower salaries than other employees, the employer must not only adopt a new non-discriminatory compensation policy, it also must affirmatively eradicate salary disparities that began prior to the adoption of the new policy and make the victims whole.

An employer sets the compensation for jobs predominately held by, for example, women or African-Americans below that suggested by the employer's job evaluation study, while the pay for jobs predominately held by men or whites is consistent with the level suggested by the job evaluation study.

An employer maintains a neutral compensation policy or practice that has an adverse impact on employees in a protected class and cannot be justified as job-related and consistent with business necessity. For example, if an employer provides extra compensation to employees who are the "head of household," i.e., married with dependents and the primary financial contributor to the household, the practice may have an unlawful disparate impact on women.

It is also unlawful to retaliate against an individual for opposing employment practices that discriminate based on compensation or for filing a discrimination charge, testifying, or participating in any way in an investigation, proceeding, or litigation under Title VII, ADEA, ADA or the Equal Pay Act.

Statistics

In Fiscal Year 2006, EEOC received 663 charges of compensation discrimination discrimination. EEOC resolved 743 compensation discrimination charges in FY 2006 and recovered $3.1 million in monetary benefits for charging parties and other aggrieved individuals (not including monetary benefits obtained through litigation).

[Pipe Dreams]

I equate feminists with the extreme side, the women who tell other women that they're "setting [women] back 20 years" because they pose in a bikini.

I also disagree with "feminists" telling me that I'll never understand what they go through as women because I'm a man.

This is the way I see feminists also. THESE women need to get all that goddamn sand out of their vagina and straighten the fuck up.

EDIT: If youre THAT type of feminist, then youre an idiot.:S3: :S4:

[birdgirl73]

I'm all for people--not just women, I keep pointing out--who support other people for doing whatever the heck it is they want to. From supporting women and men who want to pose in bathing suits (physical beauty is fine with everyone I know) to women or men who want to be stay-at-home parents or working professionals. That's been my whole point here, and only a few have really gotten it.

I'm for people being open to anything and everything. And that darn well better include humanisim/peopleism/feminisim/masculinism. The folks I've argued with the most passionately here are people who are just the opposite.

[dutch.lover]

BA, how many times do we need to tell you that law does NOT equal exercising of rights. Just because a law says something, doesn't mean it happens. Get it through your head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Geez you're tiring.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Geez you're tiring.

I know right? I had to take a damn nap because of this thread today.:S2:

[Breukelen advocaat]

BA, how many times do we need to tell you that law does NOT equal exercising of rights. Just because a law says something, doesn't mean it happens. Get it through your head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Geez you're tiring.

I've been working for more years than I care to say, at a lot of jobs, and I haven't seen very much of what you're claiming. Maybe you have, but I doubt it.

[thcbongman]

I've been working for more years than I care to say, at a lot of jobs, and I haven't seen very much of what you're claiming. Maybe you have, but I doubt it.

I suppose you been analyzing the payroll of the various companies you were employed for in the past? Or sitting in HR meetings. lmao.

The income disparity exists, especially among women who are deemed less attractive, or are overweight. Don't kid yourself that simply making The Equal Pay Act will eventually equal out everything. As humans, bias still exists past these safeguards.

I'll tell you a story about my experience with women who are victims of the income inequality. When I was 20, my company gave me a substancial raise, which was higher than the salary of most of the my female co-workers on my team, some who were responsible for more important functions. I heard about their complaints and I think they're warranted. Here I was, some 20 year old kid, who was getting paid more than my co-workers who had kids, worked there longer, and had substancially more experience. I felt I earned it because of my specialites and dedication, but I feel why they feel unfairly treated. They should've been paid as much as me, perhaps even more. They were minorities, women, and everyday had to work their asses off for little in return. The world is unfair. Even tho we strive for equality, the climate will never be equal. That's why you need laws and people to keep fighting inequality.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I suppose you been analyzing the payroll of the various companies you were employed for in the past? Or sitting in HR meetings. lmao.

The income disparity exists, especially among women who are deemed less attractive, or are overweight. Don't kid yourself that simply making The Equal Pay Act will eventually equal out everything. As humans, bias still exists past these safeguards.

I've experienced discrimination for various reasons - women and minorities do the same thing - including women, parents, homosexuals and lesbians. Nobody says that human nature is always on the right side.

I'll tell you a story about my experience with women who are victims of the income inequality. When I was 20, my company gave me a substancial raise, which was higher than the salary of most of the my female co-workers on my team, some who were responsible for more important functions.
Maybe you didn't give yourself enough credit for your contributions to the firm .

I heard about their complaints and I think they're warranted. Here I was, some 20 year old kid, who was getting paid more than my co-workers who had kids, worked there longer, and had substancially more experience.
What does having kids matter, unless the job has something to do with child care? If they were frequently late, absent, or unable to work overtime due to their children, I can understand the reluctance of the employer to promote them.

I felt I earned it because of my specialites and dedication, but I feel why they feel unfairly treated. They should've been paid as much as me, perhaps even more.
Not everybody can promoted. Unless your promotion was political, you probably outshined your co-workers in the eyes of your employers.

They were minorities, women, and everyday had to work their asses off for little in return. The world is unfair. Even tho we strive for equality, the climate will never be equal. That's why you need laws and people to keep fighting inequality.

Yes, and whenever some of today's alleged disenfranchised get further along, they hire their own and discriminate against everybody else. This tendency of human nature is addressed by laws, which work a good deal of the time, but there are ALWAYS going to be exceptions.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Okay, I'll bite. Explain how it is that you can "feel" me, so to speak. Tell me your tales of oppression and menstruation.

That's not fair, you know what I meant :P

But to respond for a response's sake, I simply stated that I understand what they go through. Menstruation, I understand the idea of what happens physically and what can happen mentally and emotionally. People have different reactions to it. To say that it's impossible for me to imagine that some people have something happen to them once a month that they have seemingly no control over and don't know why they "act different" because of it, is being close minded. Will I ever know *exactly* what's happening to them? No. Will I ever know what it's like to be anyone but myself? No. Can I get a general idea? Sure.

And oppression is a pretty easy thing to understand, as almost all of us as humans have felt it.

I know you meant your post in jest, but I do feel that deserved a proper response nonetheless.