You also bring up some good points RichieRich. Hopefully we'll have all these answers at some point, but here's my take...

Quote Originally Posted by RichieRich
Christians believe that God has always been.
Oddly though, the inverse itself is not alotted the same benefit of the doubt. I suppose, though, that god could be something that transcends energy or matter, and it is therefor matter and energy that are not alotted the same benefit of the doubt. However, energy be definitition is the catylist of all action, so I'm not sure how that would work. If you take a dip into quantum physics you'll find some interesting stuff, and undoubtedly change your view on the nature of existence and our separation of matter, energy, and "nothingness".

He is the source of all life and all creation. But thats a tough one to swallow I know.
Thankyou for acknowledging that. It seems fellows like Pascal inevitably have their logic scewed by interpreting their world to match up with their presuppositions. A big reason it's difficult to convince the atheist is because we've stepped out of that realm where all our views are coloured by a presupposition, and all our reasoning must come back to it.


But even if you ask the athiest and evolution people they have issues with that one as well. If there were gases, particles and so forth in space that gathered togehter to cause the big bang, who made the gases?
Keep in mind that the big bang is only a theory based on second-hand observations. It is not the definitive and be-all answer nor is it claimed to be, only a proposed explanation for the movement of the universe. The question though, cannot automatically go to "who" made it, when we can just as easily say "what" made it. In fact, considering that conscious thought is the product of an incredibly complex biological system designed for survival in a particular environment, how would it be logical to assume that consciousness would also arise from an entirely unrelated set of circumstances? To suggest a "who" usually suggests a consciousness, the ultimate consciousness of god. But why, in the midst of nothingness, would something like consciousness arise?


Who made space?
Who made god? I dunno. But the question of who made space, who made "somethingness", is one that has perplexed people since the beginning of time. Of course as I stated above, we are far too dependant on the notion that everything has to be the product of a "who" when there's no evidence to suggest such. Anywhoo, I'd suggest everybody read up on quantum physics, space-time, special and general relativity, and evolution. Most stuff is much harder to dismiss if you actually study and understand it.


Thats why way smarter people like Einstein believed in intelligent design.
But, you're commiting the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. An appeal to authority is where you take someone highly accomplished in one field, and use him/her as a standard by which all other opinions are set. Einstein was a master of understanding relativity, space-time, and mathematics. He was not necessarily a master of logic, and his credentials do not point to such. You can find plenty of the smartest people to ever live who have opinions both ways, but none of them citable sources just because they display intelligence in a particular field.