Senate GOP Counter-Punches To Aid Boy Scouts

[Torog]

Senate GOP eyes counter punches to aid Boy Scouts
Washington Times ^ | 11/30/04 | Amy Fagan


Senate Republican leaders plan to move legislation next year to protect the Boy Scouts of America from attacks by liberal groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union over government ties to the organization, which has an oath that acknowledges God.
The Defense Department recently agreed to warn military bases that department policy does not allow them to be official sponsors of Boy Scout units and that military personnel may sponsor Boy Scout groups only in their civilian capacity.

[snip]

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist introduced legislation this month stipulating that no federal law, directive, rule, instruction or order should limit any federal agency from providing support to the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, including meetings held on federal property.
"To this legislator, the ACLU's continued attacks on the Boy Scouts is starting to become its own form of persecution," said the Tennessee Republican, a former Scout, in a floor speech Nov. 20.
He tried to get the measure through the Senate by unanimous consent in the waning days of the congressional session, but Senate Democrats rebuffed him.

[snip]


"I think it is absolutely ridiculous about how some people are trying to stamp out any reference to God when the government is connected to it," said Rep. Joel Hefley, Colorado Republican and another former Scout. "Here's a character-building group that has done so much good. ... We need more character-building organizations for young people, rather than discouraging it."

[snip]

"Through their service to their organization and our country, the Boy Scouts have protected more freedoms than the ACLU ever has, and the majority leader is committed to taking whatever action is necessary to make the relationship between our scouts and our soldiers as strong as ever," said Shannon Flaherty, spokeswoman for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Texas Republican.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=41635

If you haven't signed the petition to "Get ACLU
off taxpayer dole," please go to the above URL and sign. We need this provision repealed. It would drastically cut the ACLU's funding!

Exerpt:
A new online petition asks Congress to change a specific civil-rights statute in hopes of preventing the American Civil Liberties Union from collecting attorney fees from taxpayers of local governments the organization takes to court.

The effort â?? spearheaded by Craig McCarthy of CourtZero.org, a site dedicated to stemming judicial activism â?? seeks to change 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, of the United States Code. The statute now allows judges to award attorney fees to plaintiffs in civil-rights cases brought against local governments, thereby putting the taxpayers on the hook and oftentimes funneling public money to the ACLU. McCarthy wants the law changed so cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would not apply.

Torog Reviewed by Torog on 12-01-2004. Senate GOP Counter-Punches To Aid Boy Scouts Senate GOP eyes counter punches to aid Boy Scouts Washington Times ^ | 11/30/04 | Amy Fagan Senate Republican leaders plan to move legislation next year to protect the Boy Scouts of America from attacks by liberal groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union over government ties to the organization, which has an oath that acknowledges God. The Defense Department recently agreed to warn military bases that department policy does not allow them to be official sponsors of Boy Scout Rating: 5

[Torog]

Time to git to work and flex GOP muscle,time to put a stompin on the ACLU . The ACLU,is doing as much damage to this country-as the UN is doing to the World..time to put em both in their place.

[Encatuse]

"I think it is absolutely ridiculous about how some people are trying to stamp out any reference to God when the government is connected to it," said Rep. Joel Hefley, Colorado Republican and another former Scout. "Here's a character-building group that has done so much good. ... We need more character-building organizations for young people, rather than discouraging it."

I very much agree with this statement, however I don't feel that that oath recognizing God at all aids in the building of character. I don't feel it degrades character either, don't get me wrong, I just don't see how it has anything to do with being a boy scout. By trying to remove the reference to God in the boy scout oath, they are not in any way threatening the boy scouts existance, they are simply saying that because this is a government run organization it should show religious neutrality.

Contrary to common beliefs this country's law was not founded upon christianity. It was founded upon religious neutrality BY christians. Simply because our forefathers were christian doesn't mean they wanted all those who who were within this wonderful country to be christian.

Now I know that being christian isn't a boy scout entrance requirement, but look at it from a young Hindu boy's perspective. This young man truly wants to be a boy scout just like all his friends. But, in taking the boy scout pledge he is told to take at the beginning of each boy scout meeting, he is forced to say something he does not feel, that being that there is only one higher being, or he is punished for it. The first ammendment is freedom of speech and I for one don't feel this young Hindu boy should have to conform to christianity just to enter a wonderful, character building group such as The Boy Scouts of America.

What if it were the other way around? What if in order to enter some government run youth-program you had to say "... and under Gaia we will ..." ((gaia being the earth goddess in some religion or other)) Well, it would never happen. Why? Because it would be such a blatant form of trying to manipulate the minds of our youth.

I don't think this is a serious issue.. but I definately don't think it's outrageous. But, now that it has been brought to the attention of our government, it should be quickly taken care of.

So what is the necessity of our government referencing God? All it does is raise controversy. Stamp our references to God and all this silliness will soon end. I can honestly say I won't miss the small black print on my dollar bills that I never read.

You know, in my old high school, if you didn't say the pledge in it's complete and full form, as in... no leaving out "one country under God" you got sent to the office? Now THAT is an outrage. That means EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL DAY OF THE YEAR we are forced to recognize christianity as the one true religion. Don't read that much into it? Well those christians who are saying it do, so I feel I should as well. I want to support the words that come out of my mouth. And if I'm not christian ((which I am.. of sorts.. I believe in God.. just not sure of which variety. ^.^)) I don't support it. Should children be forced to say things they believe to be false? 180 days of the year for 12 years of their life? That's 2160 times that someone is forced under threat of punishment to say something that they do not believe. I believe there is a word for that... it's brainwashing.

Wow, I realize I just went on a rant about a completely different subject. But the same applies to this situation I believe. I remember when I was a Cub-Scout ((a grade-school Boy Scout)) there was this kid who wouldn't say the oath every single time and him and the "Den Mother" would always get into little shout wars over it, and in the end he'd have to sit out crafts and other activities merely because he "wasn't dedicated to the pack." ((We were bear cubs, so we called it a pack, not a troop. ^.^))

If in the oath he wasn't forced to verify the truth of one religion or another or say anything else that is not supposed to be verified by the government, then of course I see the point in his punishments, but because of that I think it's quite cruel to force a youth into seperation from his friends merely because of his religious beliefs.

I don't think the government is hating on any religion, ESPECIALLY christianity. If anything, I think it should be blatant to all those with vision to see that our government in fact FAVORS it over any other religion. This in itself is unconstitutional. Our fine democracy was built upon religious 'open-mindedness' and so should it remain. We made a couple mistakes by letting our government representatives show their religion on our money, in our boy-scout oaths, in our pledges of allegiance to our beautiful land, flag, and country. Now it's time to correct those errors.

- Encatuse

Edit: Holy cow.. that's long.

[Torog]

Howdy Encatuse,

Let me clear up something,the Scouts require a belief and acknowledgement of a Divine power,therefore the hindu boy and any other religious faith,is acceptable,except satanism,because they believe in a Divine power. Acknowledging that there's a Divine power,higher than Man,requires one to be humble ..humility is a virtue of a good character. There are many Scout troops,that are comprised of a majority of religious faiths,other than Christianity. There's Jewish,muslim,hindu,bhudist etc. All major religions,believe that homosexuality is wrong..therefore,homosexual scoutmasters,are un-acceptable in the private organization,known as the Boy Scouts..and which was upheld by the Supreme Court.

Despite what you've been taught,by your liberal,politically correct teachers,America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and laws.

You will not find the words"seperation of church and state" in the Constitution. The pilgrims came to America,to escape religious persecution and the oppression of a monarchy.

America,is a Judeo-Christian nation,with freedom of religious expression for all..despite what you've been taught,despite the best efforts of the Left and the ACLU,among others,America is still a Christian nation-Bush's re-election-is proof,that Christian family values still matter to the majority of Americans.

Have a good one....Torog

[Encatuse]

Yes, I admit the scouts require a belief. A belief in our country, our government, themselves, their scoutmasters, and their fellow scouts will suffice quite fine I believe. Humility is a quality that can be imbed into a person without the use of religion though. I know many a fine atheists and agnostics.
Also, you mentioned bhuddists in your list. The majority of bhuddists do not actually worship bhudda, but merely follow his philosophies. ^.^ And satanism has nothing to do with the christian idea of satan. Just a couple tidbits of knowledge I thought I might share.
Thomas Jefferson, one of our finest founding forefathers, was actually quite possibly atheist. Look up Thomas Jefferson quotes and you'll find many which encourage questioning of ones faith, as well as the bible. Many others in a sense 'bashing' christianity. I'll try and find a few for ya now so you dont have to bother unless you want to. ^.^

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Lastly and by far the most appliable to this conversation:

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

So was it the liberal teachers that confused Thomas Jefferson into that last quote? Perhaps he was confused as I am on what this nation was founded upon. Well, seeing as Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant man, I am truly glad to be within his category of beliefs on this one.
And regarding bushes election ((note: election, not re-election)) that doesn't involve christianity in any large quantity. Yes, a number of people voted for him based on the fact that he claims to be a good-old fashioned christian, but a large number of people voted for him because what were their other options? I mean.. even I would have trouble voting for Kerry ((2 more years and Ill be voting on anything any everything. ^.^)) for a large majority, it was a choice between the lesser of two evils. And I could very much see why some would say Bush was that lesser evil.

[Encatuse]

I decided to edit your image, just for fun. ^.^

[F L E S H]

Encatuse, Thanks for finding those quotes, I was looking for something similar

The American Forefathers got 100% of their rhetoric from the French (yikes!) enlightenment movement. And all of these French philosophers were if not atheist, deists (meaning they might believe in some superior being, a creator, but this creator is absent now; an absentee landlord, if you will). That is why France gave the Statue of Liberty to Americans, because Americans were the first to put into practice the philosophies of the Enlightenment, and successfully. Needless tto say, the French Revolution would soon take place as well (1789).

That's pretty much why today the French go to extremes to keep Church and State completely separate. They went through many many years of civil war and senseless killing because of religion, and their doing their damnedest to keep it from happening again.

[Torog]

Howdy Encatuse,

Jefferson ,had a distaste for organized religion,as it had been applied to the masses up to that point in history. He was not an aetheist.

You are simply and plainly wrong,in saying that the founding fathers didn't have a single,original thought,that everything was derived soley from the French,the founding fathers examined every form of governance,when deciding how best to formulate America's goverment.

French political thought,was just one part of a whole. France,is a country full of socialists and communists..and now,terrorist appeasers and abetters.

[F L E S H]

No, I'm not wrong in saying that they derived everything from the French, because the only other alternative was monarchy. Just for fun, look up the French declaration for the rights of man, and compare that to the declaration of independence, or the constitution.

believe me, there's nothing wrong in comparing 21st century USA with 18-19th century France. They were the world superpower.

[Encatuse]

Actually, regarding Jefferson, he tried quite hard never to disclose his religious status. That is why I said he may well have been atheist. But upon reading more of his quotes I did find one in which he said he could never have complete disbelief in a superior being. So, you are right in the statement that he is not atheist. And I could waste my time making an official seal of the republican paty, showing W's daddy shaking hands with the Bin Laden family, as well as several other well-known saudi-arabian terrorists, but I'll let you do that. ^.^