here's another kid story Mj when my eldest daughter was about 3 years old ( she's now 24 ) and gets sooooo embarrassed when I relate this story to any of her new boy friends only Kidding,,,,,I was in the middle of the town centre with 2 of my kids one in a push chair the other walking...well she turns to me and said dad I need the loo and as there wasn't one in the immediate vicinity I took her into a closed shops doorway...took her pants down and lifted her slightly off the ground in girl pee postion........she only started to have a crap and was asking very loudly for toilet paper with everyone looking to see what was going on....sooooooooo embarrassing