If God exists..

[koshea]

if god existed he would bring my friend back

[RESiNATE]

if god existed he would bring my friend back

I only just read your other post...I am so very sorry for what you are going through. My thoughts are with you, man, and if you need a wall to scream at, just post it up, dude...it's better out than in

I know that there is nothing that I can say to make your loss easier to bear, but would offer that sometimes things happen that defy logic and reason - we are, unfortunatley, left behind to deal with the aftermath of such events.
My philosophy on such things, is that they DO happen for a reason - even though we may never know what that reason is. And that, from every bad thing that happens, something good will eventually come from it.

Your friend's spirit will live on within your heart and soul, and everytime you remember him. Although this great tradegy has brought you much grief and guilt, you must accept that no matter how much you would wish it otherwise, there was nothing that you could have done to change it.
That you spent time being with him, and talking to him, shows how much you cared and loved him - and I am certain, beyond any doubt, that your being there helped his spirit to find peace.

The ones we love, never die,
It's just the vessel that has gone,
For in the hearts of those who care,
Their spirit lingers ever on.

Peace to you, Koshea

Res...

[RESiNATE]

Easy... because we're stoners....

lol, just kidding

aha, not so fast with dismissing that reason lol
Weed, as with many other psychoactive drugs, opens our minds to wider thinking...we refer to them as 'keys'. They enable us to think on a broader scale, even when those thoughts laspes into the..ahem..bizarre, on occasion

I think people usually require a spark to start to think about these things. Something like a traumatic event, death, illness, problems at home, etc. If everyone was just happy and everything's going good, people don't tend to concern themselves with 'the Meaning' or 'God' or other such things.

This can be referred to as the 'comfy-slippers senario'.
We have no need to ponder such wider issues, because they do not apply to our current state of affairs.
It's only when our comfort zone is violated (ie, in the ways that you described), that we need to concern ourselves with the bigger picture.

I look at my own life, and wonder why I seem to be struggling constanly to find happiness - I am a (mostly) good person with good intentions, and yet, no matter how hard I try, I seem to always face adverse situations that prevent me from finding that elusive contentment.

I had a disease this past year, and I'm not even sure it's completely gone yet. I think about death (maybe I'm overreacting a bit, but meh...) and what could happen, I think about what it all means, and 99.9% of the time I get so frustrated because there is no point. Why do I, an otherwise healthy 24-year-old, have to contract this disease? Why is my life in danger when I've done nothing to deserve something like this?

And we are told that God helps those who help themselves, and that good intention shall be rewarded...then why do 'good people' often suffer the most?
Why are people, like the friend of our own Koshea, taken from us in their prime?

I don't know, and I guess that's why I like weed It helps to ease the anxiety, or stress, that comes about by thinking too much.

And maybe it helps us to continue questioning 'the reason', by allowing us to view it all a bit more objectively , rather than just throw in the towel (a very tempting proposition, on the face of it)

When I found out about my wife's affair, I was faced with a choice (apparently lol).
I could have kept my discovery to myself, and carried on in the family unit for the sake of my children's well-being (which was at the forefront of my mind). Being of a broken marriage myself, the last thing that I wanted to do was 'inflict' that situation upon my own children.
But, with the aid of getting completely stoned, I was able to view the situation in a much more objective way, and in so doing, realised that there was no way that I could keep it to myself. I could foresee the aurguements and resentment that would arise at evry turn, and I quickly knew that the kids would ultimately suffer because of it.
I made the only decision that I really had to make - I left.
I didn't really have a choice after all, except in the way that I chose to leave.
Being stoned also enabled me to keep calm and resonable during this time of great upset.

Death is something that we all contemplate.
It is the last bit of our life-cycle, and the one that we know least about. It can invoke great fear in some people - the unknown is a very scary thing.
Some people use religion as an assurance that their 'place in the after-life' will be secured, as long as they follow the dictates of the 'word'.
Others just resign themselves to the fact that their bodies will eventually breakdown into dust, and that will be it - ie, there is no after-life.
I believe that my time here will affect the whole in some small way, and that when I die, my life-force will be a contributary factor in the continued evolution of human-kind - whether that effect is from my philosophy, or from some act that I have performed.

Maybe in the future, someone will think of me, and that thought will give them something that changes humankind for the better (not trying to be concieted here, just making a point ) - just as Darwin's thoughts and ideas, have contributed to this discussion today.
Which is why I say, in all seriousness, that sometimes things happen for a reason that we will never know the meaning of.

Heh, one thing's for sure, this discussion has evolved quite a bit, and just by typing out my thoughts, I learned a bit about myself, and what I couldn't figure out on my own ... Yay!

Ditto to that lmaooo

At the end of the day, it's all just ideas and theories - all of them open to discussion and debate - but, if we don't ask questions, then we cannot expect any answers.


Hey, Imotep...you got any pretzels left, dude!!!

[Lovinhigh]

Has to do with personal responsibility. If GOD made you as such that you could only do certain things and NOT sin <there's that word again> then it's really not faith, and god made you like a puppet. FREE WILL is what underlies responsibility, not some deterministic element of GOD-control (for lack of a better thought) that makes you do certain things. If you are not a self-determined being then all things are permissable because technically nothing is your fault. Whatever. Thought I'd write this cause I'm bored. Love you.

[F L E S H]

Has to do with personal responsibility. If GOD made you as such that you could only do certain things and NOT sin <there's that word again> then it's really not faith, and god made you like a puppet. FREE WILL is what underlies responsibility, not some deterministic element of GOD-control (for lack of a better thought) that makes you do certain things. If you are not a self-determined being then all things are permissable because technically nothing is your fault. Whatever. Thought I'd write this cause I'm bored. Love you.

Though I agree with you, Christians will argue that indeed God gave us Free Will. And he also gave us a mechanism to ease our conscience if we fuck, i.e. confession. My problem with that is, why should I have to tell a priest my sins in order to get forgiveness from God? If I repent on my own, shouldn't that be enough for Mr. Omniscient?

I made the only decision that I really had to make - I left.
I didn't really have a choice after all, except in the way that I chose to leave.
Being stoned also enabled me to keep calm and resonable during this time of great upset.

First, sorry to hear about your wife...
Second, this is interesting. Did you really have a choice? I think so, just because you were able to consider other alternatives. I think just having the capacity to imagine other solutions is an essential of choice, or Free Will. After much thought, you made up your mind and were resolute--in hindsight you felt like you had no choice. But am I mistaken to assume that you did not immediately come to that conclusion? The choice was there, but you chose one and ran with it, for better or for worse.

[RESiNATE]

Ah ha, yes, F L E S H, you make a very valid point

I guess I always knew that I would leave (after all, that's what I promised her I would do), but was looking at the possiblity of being able to forsake my moral code, for the sake of the children. I suppose what I was really trying to do, was justify my actions by arguing the pros and cons with my conscience.
Hmmm...interesting counter-arguement ..lol..I will ponder this for a while

Thanks for your sympathy lol..although, if you knew my ex-wife, I doubt that you would blame me for leaving lol...she is/was/and always will be a queen bitch.
That said, it is sad when a relationship breaks down, no matter what the circumstances
Especially when there are kids involved

Back to the question of choice.
Yes, I pondered the alternatives, therefore giving me the choice - but, based upon my moral-code and understanding of myself, I only had one real choice. That I am able to speculate on the alternatives, doesn't necessarily provide me with choice - rather, the awareness of the consequences of making the other choice.
As in the example in Matrix Reloaded - they could have shut-down the life support mechanism, but the consequences of such an act, would mean that they would probably die soon. Therefore, they appear to have choice, but in reality, they do not.
Same as with my situation - I could have stayed, but I knew that the ramifications of doing such a thing, would ultimately result in more heart-ache for all concerned - better that I deal with the pain sooner, rather than later, plus saving the kids from being exposed to a 'hostile' relationship.

I used to say that there was always choice - but now that I look at the bigger picture, and consider my moral code, I realise that the ability to choose, is really quite limited.

hehehe..you almost had me there

Look at it this way.
Analyse your life - lifestlye, occupation, the people around you, everything.
What would you change about your life?
And, how would you change it?

Of the things that cause you sadness (for want of a better description), how much power do you possess to change those things?

I look at my life:
I hate the society in which I live (people and attitudes) - but I love some of the things that come with it (materialistic things - ie, internet, cars, PS2, dope, etc)
I hate having to go to work for people who only see me as a number on the payroll - but, I need the money to survive.
I hate having to be civil to my ex - but I must be, otherwise I risk 'damaging' the kids, or even lose the right to contact with them.
I would choose to stay at home, and play on the PS2, or spend all day on the internet, get stoned, or drive my car about the countryside...but, I can't do that, because of the restrictions of the societal protocol and my responsibilty to my children.

Of all the things that cause me angst, I am unable to change most of them.
So, I must float between worlds and make the best of a bad job - go to work and interact with society, whilst enjoying the things that make me happy.
The Yin-Yang philosophy.
The only choice I have is to swallow the bitter pill, and somehow be grateful for those small mercies that I do have

[RESiNATE]

(taken from http://www.vexen.co.uk/3/hf.html )

"An argument against Free Will can be constructed by considering causality. Causality is the way that all events are caused by previous events. Causality is most easily demonstrateable for stable, small systems where it is easy to manipulate things and measure things precisely. Causality also means that all the choices we made have been caused by other factors.

The activity of a persons brain can be monitored and (with carefully placed electrodes) controlled. In experiments on cats a small electrode can be placed on the red nucleus in the brain (a small part of the medulla) and when activated, the cat will immediately curl up and go to sleep.

In Human Beings most experiments have been on the Cerebral Hemispheres and Frontal Lobes, which are the memory and major character storage respectively. Stimulating parts of the Cerebral Hemispheres will immediately cause the person to recall certain memories (sometimes ones that they had forgotten), and operating on the Frontal Lobes radically changes people's emotions and behaviour.
Slowly removing a persons brain slowly takes away their consciousness, and even a brief study of various neuronal diseased can show how related the two are.
Cause and effect penetrate through our very consciousness and thought procedures. With quiet introspection and meditation you can reach the following realisation:

A living being never truly makes a choice. We only become aware of such things after we have made them.

When I want to make a choice, my consciousness picks up, observes, and passes information around via the Limbic System. I can't make choices before I know what the options are, but when I know what the options are my brain makes the choice for me. We are in this sense, observers of ourselves observing our realities."

This next part, kinda reinforces my arguemnet that we have very limited choices:
(taken from same)

"1. "Choices" exist, so behaviour can be influenced by justice and morals.
A person is free to act if they can choose between options. If this choice exists, they have freedom to choose. This is what freedom is. Once a person makes that choice, they will suffer the good, bad or neutral consequences of their choice. This is justice as it should be.
Law and society chooses to impose rules, so that when it's members choose certain actions they are punished, because they chose an option that was bad for the collective good.

Determinism does not change any of this. It means that the person is still free to choose between the choices that he had, but also that his choice is a result of a milliard of factors and processes, a result of natural events. We all know that such events affect the way we make choices, and no one thinks that this undermines our morals in any way.

"The preceding doctrines about necessity and freedom do not undermine morality, but rather are absolutely essential to its support. Everyone, even when they are moralizing, assumes that behavior is all caused, and that predictions about behavior can be made. The legal system uses rewards and punishments. These make sense only if they have a regular and uniform influence, to produce the desired results. That is, the legal system rests on the presumption that behavior is caused."
http://www.ptproject.ilstu.edu/pt/fwdthu.htm

Quote ends.

This fortifies my theory that we have no choice.
The author talks about the same restrictions placed upon us by many factors - belief systems, upbringing, and conscious awareness - as I do (but somewhat more eloquently lol).

As a side-line, this link (http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/...ic.php?p=10215) explains the conclusion of the Matrix - and also, rather intrestingly, points out the human 'obsession' with the notion of choice

hehehe..I really love this discussion - even if it has wandered slightly from the original mission lmaooo...but, I guess that we sometimes have to go about things in a long-winded way, so that we can explore our theories to the nth degree

Res...

[RESiNATE]

This goes someway to 'disprove' evolution, and also addresses the Big Bang theory in an understandable form.
I have yet to read it all, so will refrain from comment at this time - but the general gist (as I understand it) is that Natural Selection does not exist, and looks at how the human being has yet much to learn
http://www.humantruth.org/basebook.htm

I think I may be discovering more about myself and the world/universe in which I live, and am also realising that my ideas need much more research lol