If God exists..

[RESiNATE]

I like this thread too, I am learning alot

GHoST:
You ask why 'God' would let the attrocities of 9/11 take place, but would 'guide' Ammie's mother to 'avert' an accident. Here's how I think it works.
What if our lives are nothing more than a means to discover answers for a 'higher intelligence'?
I wonder how cures for diseases have been discovered, because of one person's tradegy?
Is it Fate, or 'God's will', or something other?

I have heard many stories about people who have suffered a tradegy in their lives (ie, cot-death) and because of that trauma, they have dedicated the rest of their lives to finding out why this terrible thing happened, and are driven by a need to prevent that terrible thing from happening to someone else. I would be willing to bet that most of the people involved in 'exploratory medicine' and research, have suffered from that illness that they are trying to cure - whether directly, or indirectly.
Would it be fair to say, that maybe, their experience of such tradegy was 'thrust' upon them by something that we have no comprehension of (higher beings/God)? - or indeed, that those peoples lives have been moulded from the very start in order to satisfy their destiny? Natural born talent?

If we look at the great artists of our times, or the great philosophers, or prolific pioneers of medicine, etc...how is it that they are capable of doing things that exceed normal human ability? Especially if we adopt the theory that we are all born equal.
What sets those people apart?

I don't think I'm doing a good job at explaining myself here ...my thoughts on this theory of mine, are still very disjointed.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is, shit happens - but, if we look further down the line, sometimes that shit is meant to happen for the greater good.

Of course, I cannot say that it is not an act of God (even though I don't believe in God in religious terms), anymore than I can say that it is not.

What if, the human race (collectively) is actually God?

"God created Man in the image of Himself"
Is He male, or female?...Is He androgonous?...Is He us?

I remain agnostic/atheist, until such time that I can be given absolute proof either way.
I'm not talking about inner feelings here (although I respect others beliefs and experiences)...I'm talking about absolute proof.

To think that we are sentient, is to be human - our intelligence will always cause us to ask the question "where do we come from?", or "what is our purpose?"
We must learn to enjoy and relish our gift of life, and look toward making our time here as pleasurable as possible - rather than worry so much about securing a place in the 'after-life'...
'Heaven' is right here, folks! - look around you, and you must admit that I am right - It's just us humans that make it 'Hell' to live here - Our greed and selfishness makes it so.

Just another opinion
Res...

[RESiNATE]

Look at evoulution for a second.
The day of the lizardinasours...prehistoric 'hot'
The day of the mammals:Mammoths.Sabertooths...Ice Age 'cold'
The day of monkey/man:???/ .....'Both'
lol what's next
Ther's alot to be explained. Are we habitating ourselves or is something habitating us.

I think that I would be right in saying that evolution has never been proven (?)
Even Darwin, the one who proposed such a thing, presents his case as a theory...one that, in my opinion, is given far more credence than is due.
I seem to recall that someone has put forward the notion that evolution cannot be fact, due to the impossibility that a single-cell organism (that which we are supposed to have evolved from) can evolve - by definition alone.

What if we have been genetically modified throughout time by something else?
We already know that humankind has been capable of genetic modification since cave-man times - wheat, for instance, is a genetic modification, and was not a naturally growing plant.

If we look at the human time-line, we can see that our 'progression' is accelerating at a rapid pace. In the last 30yrs alone, we have advanced to a level that borders on the science-fiction.
There are those who believe (me being one of them) that we will soon arrive at a time where we become restricted by our own mortality, as we push the boundaries of technology beyond our human perception, and rely more and more upon the processing powers of our super-computers.

And it's happening now, isn't it?

Maybe, Mother Nature will prempt us, as we move closer and closer towards the next order.

..let's get deep

[F L E S H]

F L E S H you should read the Da Vinci code

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=5919

lol, I did, but that's not where I learned this, but the Da Vinci Code confirmed it

BTW, if you liked that book, read also Angels and Demons, same author but IMHO somewhat better!

[Stoned Scouser]

I Don't Follow The Bible At All But I Believe In A Higher Power Tho... i dont know exactly why, i think its just because i dont like the thought of death being the end! I'v done a lot of research as regards physics into string theory, quantum physics etc, these studies can fuck with ur head something ruthless! The world on an atomic level becomes a mystery world of chance! In the words of albert einstein, " God Doesn't Play Dice!". So i believe even in the future, scientists will not be able to fully explain the universe. However, its not a question of science versus religion as many of the worlds leading physicists are religious ppl. Its a question of an individuals faith!
A lof of pplz arguement for th non-existance of god is look how fucked up the world is if god existed it wud b a nicer place. For instance ghost made mention of the terrible events of 9/11. Wot ppl need 2 remember is this life is a test to determine what happens in th next life... this is our chance to proove ourselves! This world was never ment to b perfect what so ever, as god wants to see how we cope in all kinds of situations, good or bad. I must say i dont think we are coping well in this world of 'an eye for an eye'... retaliation is just leading to more an more innocent deaths! Anyway thats enuf deep convo frm me time for a splif! This is a very interstin thread btw ppx keep it up!

[RESiNATE]

Some believe that when we find the value of Pi, we shall know the answers to all our questions of Life, the Universe, and Everything...

...mathematics, my friends...mathematics

[Stoned Scouser]

Av Had Enuf Of Fuckin Mathematics lol... its the most borin' A level subject ever... ... ... unless im stoned off me head in which case it gets interestin!

[RESiNATE]

So, I asked the net if God exists...here's what I found...a very interesting arguement that I thought I would share (http://www.godexistence.com/god.htm):

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."
The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his
new students to stand.
"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God is good."

"Is God all powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a
moment, then he utters, "The BIBLE says many things that many of you Christians do not obey"

"Yes, Sir"

"Why then do you believe in someone that you do not obey"

-No answer.

"What purpose does it have to serve a law that you are not to keep"

"Well, I serve the law that the church has taught me"

"Then you are serving the Church not God"

-No answer.

"Here's another one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. If you can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would if we could.. .God doesn't."

-No answer.

"He doesn't does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

-No answer.

The elderly man is sympathetic, "No, you can't, can you?"

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Err...Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?"

The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking student audience.
"I think we're going to have a good semester, ladies and gentlemen."
He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there any evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?"

(No answer)

"Is there sickness in this world? Ugliness, immorality, hatred? All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them?"

(No answer.)

The professor suddenly shouts at his student.
"WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!"

The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created them, didn't he? Just like he created a Law that nobody keeps"

(No answer.)

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?"

The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world.
"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"

(No answer.)

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause.
"Don't you?"

The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"

(No answer.)
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks.
"Yes, Professor, I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly.
"Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Jesus?"

"No, sir, I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us, have you ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

(No answer.)

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in Him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!"

The professor smiles sagely at the underling.
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God does not exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"

The student does not answer.

"Sit down, please."

The Christian sits.. .defeated.
Another student raises his hand.

"Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles.
"Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Christian looks around the room.

"Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies, "there's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very quiet.
The second Christian continues.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat, or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'.
We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further than that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than negative 458 â?? you see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat.
We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir,it's just the absence of it."

Silence.

A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at?"

"So you 'believe' in darkness?"

"Yes."

"I'm sorry, but science says you're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly, you have nothing, and it's called darkness, isn't it?
That's the meaning we use to define the word.
In reality, darkness isn't.
If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give it to me in a jar. But you can't give me a jar of darker darkness, can you Professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.
"This would indeed be a good semester, would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must be in error..."

The professor goes ballistic. "Flawed...? How dare you...?"

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain."

The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control.
Suddenly he is affability itself.
He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains, "that, for example, there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad god, the Law of God and the law of the church.
You are viewing God as a concept, as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.
It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor, who has been reading it.
"Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, Professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course, there is, now look..."

"Again, I'm sorry sir, but you are wrong. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.
Is there such a thing as injustice?
No, injustice is the absence of justice.
Isn't the law of the church a man made version of the Law of God?
Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming shade of red. He is so angry, he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues.

"If there is evil in the world, Professor, and we all agree there is then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing?
The Bible tells us that it is to see if each one of us will, believe in the righteousness of His son (the result of the love of God), over evil (the result of independence or the absence of the love of God).
There is nothing greater than love.
God is love and God is good.
If He is good, then the ultimate act of his goodness would be to give man the opportunity to experience the greatest thing that exists -- love.
This everlasting love of His is expressed in his eternal Law and His willingness to give us the right to choose.
Some choose not to obey Him and inclusive change His Law and others may choose to go as far as to deny Him as is your case".

The professor bridles.
"As a philosophical scientist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or His Law or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's Law, which is His moral code, in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies, "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week!
Tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir, or are you placing your 'faith' in the unobservable?"

The professor makes a sucking noise with his teeth and gives the student a silent, stony stare.

The student replies: "May I follow up on the point you were making earlier to the other student?"

The professor wisely keeps silent.

"I believe you have a great mind Professor, but with all respect let me ask the class a question regarding it. Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's mind... felt the professor's mind, touched or smelt the professor's mind?"

The class remains silent.

"No one appears to have done so. No one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever. While I would not dare to imply it myself, but wouldn't the limitations of what you 'believe in' (the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable, protocol, science) say that you have no mind?
Wouldn't the same apply to your emotions and your will?
I believe your great mind is hidden within your brain although I cannot observe it within the small box, or within the limited parameters which you want to place God within.
If I want to know your mind or better yet the real you (your mind, emotions, will and even your spirit), all I have to do, if you are willing to be known, is be willing to seek to know you and to spend time with you, at least to read about you.
You can know that God exists, .......if you are willing. ......
Are you willing Professor?"

Silence

Silence

Silence

Silence

Silence

Silence

Silence

The bell rings.

"Class dismissed," replies the professor. "Time is up!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------
lmaoo...a good debate, don't you think?

Whilst both sides of this arguement are valid, it still boils down to one single thing:
One person's faith (belief) versus another person's denial.
I remain someone that is sceptical until conclusively proven otherwise...and if I'm totally honest - I crave the proof, which ever arguement it favours!


Res...

[Stoned Scouser]

lol very gud res! av read a lot of ur posts since i joined th other day... u'v got a deep mind n a huge vocabulary lol... keep it up i think im learnin a lot on here yano

[RESiNATE]

lol...I relish the compliment, Stoned Scouser, and am humbled by your kind words

Yep, I guess that we're all here to learn - the day that we stop asking questions, is the day that we lose our spirit and soul...and become less than we are meant to be.

I have been admonished for my quest for answers many times - I just ask them why I should stop lmaooo

[GHoSToKeR]

that was cool, Res...

anyway the way I see it is this; things happen

thats it. thats my view of history, society, thoughts, feelings, emotions, communications, relationships, good, evil - theyre just things happening..

why does there have to be a God for them to happen? why does it have to be more complicated?