More death is not the answer.

[Way2many]

yeah we should stop sending america's young to die in the desert.

let them kill each other and do what they do, we need to mind our fucking own.

^and your dumb were trying to help those savages the thing is they dont wanna be helped.

[Bong30]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01112007...etz.htm?page=2

NOBLE EFFORT OUR ONLY ALTERNATIVE TO AWFUL DEFEAT FORCE & RESISTANCE: President Bush has ordered a surgeof troops â?? but Democrats in Congress said yesterday they'll seek
to pass a nonbinding resolution opposing it.


January 11, 2007 -- THE speech didn't matter. The plan matters.

The speech was plain and direct and without adornment. The plan it outlined is detailed and specific and seeks nothing less than to reverse the worsening crisis in Iraq.

The speech said, "This plan can work."

The plan must work.

Because if it doesn't, the war is lost. The president will have almost no defenders and backers should this plan fail to improve things in Iraq - and make no mistake, if this proves to be the case, the war will be defunded by Congress in 2008.

And then every terrible thing the president mentioned last night will be upon us:

"Radical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions. Iran would be emboldened in its pursuit of nuclear weapons. Our enemies would have a safe haven from which to plan and launch attacks on the American people."

And just as the president said last night that "the responsibility" for the mistakes that have been made "rests with me," so too he will shoulder the responsibility for the increased danger to the American people from Iraq's descent into unmitigated chaos.

So what of the plan itself? It has the practical benefit of being an actual plan to defeat the enemy on the ground - as opposed to the previous strategy, which was to subordinate military action to the maneuverings and machinations of Iraq's newborn political elite.

It involves an effort to defeat the Sunni insurgency and the Shiite death squads in Baghdad by taking their safe havens away from them - and it differs from previous efforts in this regard because American troops, working with a much larger Iraqi army contingent, will stay there day and night until these neighborhoods are pacified.
At the same time, operations against the al Qaeda terrorists in Anbar province will be stepped up. And more systematic efforts will be made to block the interference of Syria and Iran, who have provided support to the Sunni insurgents, al Qaeda terrorists and Shiite slaughterers.

Will it succeed? I don't know and neither do you and neither does anybody else. But it is this country's last, best, and only hope of prevailing in Iraq.

And the fact that it has been designed thoughtfully, carefully and over a period of more than two months - including the systematic replacement of the entire team that devised the previous unsuccessful strategy with a new team committed to victory - demonstrates the president and his team aren't just putting lipstick on a pig.

What has happened in the past two months in Washington is really without modern precedent: An overconfident president, assured and comforted by his military leaders that they had the only workable strategy for the war they were waging, found himself brought up short by the facts on the battleground and by the dramatic change in the political landscape at home.

He was left with only a few options.

He could have kept going as he had been, which would have been delusional.

He could have given in to the general despair in Washington and sought a quick exit from Iraq, which would have dishonorable.

Or he could have insisted on a gigantic new commitment of forces to the Iraqi theater, which would either have been unattainable or unsustainable.

What he has done, instead, is to devise and present a practical and workable plan - a plan to reduce violence, enhance security and simultaneously fight more aggressively and bring the Iraqi forces to fight more aggressively as well.

And there is no other option now but defeat.

[BizzleLuvin]

hate is not a family value
what part of 'thou shalt not kill' dont you understand? (pro-life folks like this one too, isnt it ironic those people tend to support the war in iraq and the death penalty)
- a few sayings from my overwhelming bumper sticker collection

[LuckyNiner]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01112007...etz.htm?page=2

NOBLE EFFORT OUR ONLY ALTERNATIVE TO AWFUL DEFEAT FORCE & RESISTANCE: President Bush has ordered a surgeof troops â?? but Democrats in Congress said yesterday they'll seek
to pass a nonbinding resolution opposing it.


January 11, 2007 -- THE speech didn't matter. The plan matters.

The speech was plain and direct and without adornment. The plan it outlined is detailed and specific and seeks nothing less than to reverse the worsening crisis in Iraq.

The speech said, "This plan can work."

The plan must work.

Because if it doesn't, the war is lost. The president will have almost no defenders and backers should this plan fail to improve things in Iraq - and make no mistake, if this proves to be the case, the war will be defunded by Congress in 2008.

And then every terrible thing the president mentioned last night will be upon us:

"Radical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions. Iran would be emboldened in its pursuit of nuclear weapons. Our enemies would have a safe haven from which to plan and launch attacks on the American people."

And just as the president said last night that "the responsibility" for the mistakes that have been made "rests with me," so too he will shoulder the responsibility for the increased danger to the American people from Iraq's descent into unmitigated chaos.

So what of the plan itself? It has the practical benefit of being an actual plan to defeat the enemy on the ground - as opposed to the previous strategy, which was to subordinate military action to the maneuverings and machinations of Iraq's newborn political elite.

It involves an effort to defeat the Sunni insurgency and the Shiite death squads in Baghdad by taking their safe havens away from them - and it differs from previous efforts in this regard because American troops, working with a much larger Iraqi army contingent, will stay there day and night until these neighborhoods are pacified.
At the same time, operations against the al Qaeda terrorists in Anbar province will be stepped up. And more systematic efforts will be made to block the interference of Syria and Iran, who have provided support to the Sunni insurgents, al Qaeda terrorists and Shiite slaughterers.

Will it succeed? I don't know and neither do you and neither does anybody else. But it is this country's last, best, and only hope of prevailing in Iraq.

And the fact that it has been designed thoughtfully, carefully and over a period of more than two months - including the systematic replacement of the entire team that devised the previous unsuccessful strategy with a new team committed to victory - demonstrates the president and his team aren't just putting lipstick on a pig.

What has happened in the past two months in Washington is really without modern precedent: An overconfident president, assured and comforted by his military leaders that they had the only workable strategy for the war they were waging, found himself brought up short by the facts on the battleground and by the dramatic change in the political landscape at home.

He was left with only a few options.

He could have kept going as he had been, which would have been delusional.

He could have given in to the general despair in Washington and sought a quick exit from Iraq, which would have dishonorable.

Or he could have insisted on a gigantic new commitment of forces to the Iraqi theater, which would either have been unattainable or unsustainable.

What he has done, instead, is to devise and present a practical and workable plan - a plan to reduce violence, enhance security and simultaneously fight more aggressively and bring the Iraqi forces to fight more aggressively as well.

And there is no other option now but defeat.

Use your own words, and perhaps people will listen to you.

Use the words of someone writing for the NY Post, and you'll only get laughed at.

What he has done, instead, is to devise and present a practical and workable plan - a plan to reduce violence, enhance security and simultaneously fight more aggressively and bring the Iraqi forces to fight more aggressively as well.

A plan to REDUCE violence? 21,500 more American troops and the plan is to REDUCE violence?

Enhance security? To "fight more aggressively" would do the exact opposite of "enhancing security". Think about today's war-raped Iraq, today's war-raped Iraqis, and imagine the current violence multiplied numerous times.

That's what this escalation will bring.

[LuckyNiner]

hate is not a family value
what part of 'thou shalt not kill' dont you understand? (pro-life folks like this one too, isnt it ironic those people tend to support the war in iraq and the death penalty)
- a few sayings from my overwhelming bumper sticker collection

We need more people like you in this world.

Also, Bong30, here I was thinking you were a Christian from the few posts of yours I've read (and laughed uproariously at). How in the world can someone who considers themselves a follower of Jesus Christ advocate death, war, and murder?

[LuckyNiner]

Amen to that LuckyNiner, good to see other people with the views i have...unfortunately being in the state where this dumbfuck comes from it is hard to voice my opinion without people goin ape shit. unfortunate to see people only believe what the media tells them, wake the fuck up and smell the green people.

Haha, I think Texas is one of the few states where a stereotype proves more often than not to be true, and people somehow seem proud of it...it's a strange world.

Anyway, another version of this thread is more active in the Lounge, where people who aren't interested in world affairs might actually read it..

[Bong30]

Death is reality.... Peace is a dream

You live in La la land, Ill live here in Colorado.

[Bob the Awesome]

hate is not a family value
what part of 'thou shalt not kill' dont you understand? (pro-life folks like this one too, isnt it ironic those people tend to support the war in iraq and the death penalty)
- a few sayings from my overwhelming bumper sticker collection

I feel so happy I'm not the only one who says this. "Thou shalt not kill" There's no room for exceptions. My Christian-Conservative 'friends' always try and say it's OK for soldiers and people in specific situations, but the Bible doesnt' say anything else but "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

They don't read that part literally, but they take "A man shall not lie with another man as he does a woman" to mean that gays not only can't get married, but can't adopt.

People who think like that need to go to Iraq and die fixing their own mess, I want no part of this. The whole thing got fucked to hell.

[LuckyNiner]

Death is reality.... Peace is a dream

You live in La la land, Ill live here in Colorado.

A dream we have to strive for.


So you're not a Christian, then? Jesus Christ was just some dude?

[Way2many]

Human will alway's destroy themselves and there planet.