Quote Originally Posted by wrasler
that doesn't cover jack shit. where did the "pure energy and mass" originate?
Where did this incredible and infinite creator come from? Same problem, but you can't logically just pick the answer that you like.


if you don't believe a supreme being created it, how did it come into being?
Right here is the biggest logical fallacy behind creationism. Your only answer is "how did it come into being?". That is not an answer, it's a question. You can't then just pick the first answer your mind can comprehend just because you can't think of a better one. If society accumulated all it's knowledge that way, we'd have never come to where we are in the sciences and other forms of knowledge. God is only a hypothesis, a proposal for an explanation as to the complexity of the universe and its creation. The simple fact that we don't have all the answers yet does not mean you can declare a prior hypothesis as truth simply because we haven't yet come to certain understandings. Humanity throughout the ages has accredited thunder to blacksmith gods, sickness to demons, stars to pinprick holes in a blanket over the sky, fire as a migical gift from one of the Roman gods (I forget which one), and so on and so on... But once we dscovered the real answers to these questions, such as chemical reactions creating thunder, we do what we have always done; move on to the next phenomenon we can't explain and provide an easy answer to declare the truth.

God fits fine as an explanation as to how existence came into being (well actually, there are some obvious flaws). But you, me, or anybody could conjure up infinite explanations as to the nature of this existence. It is only when one explanation becomes indoctrinated within the masses that it is viewed as the only acceptable one. The universe is not a simple place with simple explanations that any 5 year old could understand. We've come a long way, and we have a longer way to go. Intelligent reasoning, often working against indoctrinated coercion from religious figureheads, is what has lead to our rise in understanding of this world and our place in it. I would rather we continue to seek answers, perpetuate growth in thought, and strive to become the beings that control and understand this reality, rather than omitting it to the higher universal dictator because it's the easiest answer, and only one we have at the time.

how can you prove my belief isn't true?
That's irrelevant. Scientists don't create theories by proving that every hypothesis isn't true. Politicians aren't justified in launching wars because "prove that they're not producing nuclear weapons". I don't kill a random person the street and say to the judge "prove that he wasn't going to attack me". It's up to you to prove that god does exist, otherwise you're just making a claim.

were you there or did you know someone who was? please enlighten me.
I sure wasn't. And neither were you. Hence why your believe in god, or my belief in the invisible space jellyfish, are both invalid. A belief does not have validity just because you believe it. It has validity when you can support it with evidence and critical reasoning. This still all goes back to the creationist fallacy, "you don't have answer, so that makes my belief right".