Quote Originally Posted by mrdevious
Howdy Torog.



Very admirable Torog, as long as you think you're voting for the guy who will make life good for the people he/she represents, and I'm sure you did. I still think your "brainwashed", but I think I'm also brainwashed. You see we're all brainwashed to some degree, conditioned to think a certain way till the other side of the issue seems incomprehensible. I'm dong my best to think for myself, call bullshit where I see it, and support a good idea when I think I see one, based on my own logical reasoning. But inevitably, certain mindsets are ingrained in us all, I'm simply encouraging everybody to lessen that influence as much as possible and use critical thinking as often as possible.



You don't need moral absolutes, you just need morals. If you think something is right, then believe it's right and live by it. But when you make it an absolute, you're saying that you won't objectively consider the other side and make an unbiased decision about it. We can never correct the problems within ourselves if we write our opinions in stone.
As an atheist my stance on god isn't "god doesn't exist", but "I won't believe in god till I have a good reason to believe he exists". If somebody provides me with a good reason, I'll happily change my view.
This is what I mean when I say absolutes aren't necessary. Not that you willy-nilly change your stance on important issues, but that you consider everything critically and never block out the opposition just because you've made your decision.



That's far too vague a question to answer. I guarantee you that there are tonnes of terrible conservatives right along side the terrible liberals. But then to declare all liberalism a "bad" thing clearly speaks of a huge bias on your part and an unwillingness or innability to understand certain liberal points of view.




In my opinion, the word of god is the word of man in the guise of a supernatural diety. But that's an argument for another thread, and I"m sure neither of us will manage to convince the other on that one. One thing we can agree on though, is that Jesus was a very wise man with a lot of good ideas. I think his idea of love and forgiveness, even for ones enemy (AS HE STATED), are something we turn a blind eye too a lot quicker than other messages.
Anyway, I'm not saying that you or any other "far-wingers" are 100% controlled by their conditioned ideology, but it undeniably plays its part.



That fight is one that's been raging since the beginning of society. People like to believe that "liberals" and "conservatives" are a relatively new phemonenon, but it's the same stuff that's been going on since humans have been around. You have the "conservatives", those who wish to preserve traditional values and ideas, and "liberals", those who seek to go against the established norm to perpetuate their plan for a better world; and of course, this is sometimes a good thing, and sometimes a bad thing.

There are stricter definitions for liberalism and conservatism that were coined from the mid 18th century on, and I find it ironic that Classical Liberalism is in many ways closer to what some conservatives want, and modern conservatism doesn't even reflect parts of their original ideology. Then there's our wonderfull friend Reform Liberalism, which was developed later and is actually responsible for ideology driving the "liberals" of today.

I would really recommend you read up on the roots of Liberalism, Liberal democracies, Conservatism, Classical liberalism, and Reform Liberalism. You may be surprised to find out that many of those people you dislike so much aren't very liberal at all, and even more often follow the Reform rather than Classical model (I personally like the classical model better, but no system is perfect).



You too buddy.
Howdy mrdevious,

Thanx for yer considered reply ! And being patient with me,enough to do so.

Being raised in a conservative,Christian home and by a father who was very strict,does result in a certain degree of brain-washing,and I'm still working on countering such. I did not raise my child as strictly as I was raised,I used a combination of morals and moral absolutes,with my daughter. I tend to shy away from organized religion,these days..instead of just relying on the critical thinking of a preacher,I rely on myself,to find the answers that I seek to Life. My old man,used to tell me that I think too much..that I just need to stop making excuses for not gitting the job done..so ya see,even when I was a child,I was thinking critically for myself,to some degree.

I do try and consider,what my detractors are saying..not all of it's bad. For example,the tv shows,Wife Swap,Trading Spouses and Extreme Home Makeover,are examples of liberals doing good,whether or not it's intentional or in-adverdent..the results are often positive.

At any rate,I'll try to be more fair and open-minded and look for the good in folks..I usually do such,but given we are in a fight for the survival of the Free World..I find that I cannot countenance any excuses for allowing brutal dictators,to have any sort of reign.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile: