COAST TO COAST - AMERICANS ARE PROTESTING

[Ed Ward MD]

show enormous, large or even huge in any of my posts (only 1 reference and that is to your response in saying huge). didn't even look at the rest of your BS. Start with a lie i have no use for the post.

title of article
COAST TO COAST - AMERICANS ARE PROTESTING

Please show anywhere I said anything about numbers of protesters. JUST IT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER. It is not my post. I did not name it. BUT, SHOW ME WHERE WHAT IS STATED IS NOT TRUE. Stop shifting address of what you state. SHOW ME WHERE WHAT IS STATED IS NOT TRUE, not some BS about what you think it means. Don't need your opinion. I have one. Give me facts on which to base an opinion.

Please write as many posts as possible starting with a lie. They are so easy to be shown as BS.

TR E WAR, III

[Libertarian Toker]

"show enormous, large or even huge in any of my posts "

"I learned of an enormous movement happening across the United States that literally astounded me. There are protests and marches in every major city in
the country."

That came from your first copy paste propaganda post. It's to bad that you don't read what you post, it might save people a lot of time explaining things to you if you did read them.

Toker

[Ed Ward MD]

I is not ME. I is the originator of the post I transported. And yes, you are correct, I do not usually pay much attention to what someone's opinion is in a factual post. I just look at the facts. I go through hundreds of posts a day. Enourmous movement does not relate to individual numbers as I see it, but to the geography involved. Where is the benefit of BS over one word of a post that shows that thousands (in total) are protesting AND THERE IS NO CORPORATE COVERAGE OF THESE EVENTS. That is and was the point of the post. Not some BS over the word "enormous" in "enormous movement". Where is the benefit? Geographically, it is enormous. He states nothing of Billions or millions or any numbers, JUST GEOGRAPHY. Yet, the only thing you gained from the post was. "THIS POST IS NOT HUGE NUMBERS." Yep, thats real supportive activism. How is this post propaganda? WHAT IS STATED IS FACTUAL. Give me some facts and not a 30 second BS post on something that has "huge" factual information dismissed as some BS opinion on what was not even stated in the article.

TR E WAR, III

[Ed Ward MD]

If we are to take for the criterion of truth the majority of suffrages, they ought to be gotten from those philosophic and patriotic citizens who cultivate their reason. U.S. president. Madison to Benjamin Rush, March 7, 1790. W.T. Hutchinson et al., The Papers of James Madison, vol. 13, pp. 93-94, Chicago and Charlottesville, Virginia (1962-1991). Subject: Government - Suffrage

And yet you claim to be a LIBERTARIAN? pisshead on you fascist. What's that...Below Me?

TR E WAR, III

At least ToeRag shows his republo fascism, he at least does not hide his fascism under the guise of liberty.

[Libertarian Toker]

"How is this post propaganda? WHAT IS STATED IS FACTUAL."

I figure you don't really understand the nature of propaganda that well if you think it has to be a lie. Stretching the truth out of proportion is one of many of propagandas ugly forms. They are decieving you with words on a web site that you believe is truth, even though you have know way to know what the real truth is. You blindly believe them, and I think mainly because they post words on a web site. That seems to be all it takes for you to believe. Just because things are wrote down on web site doesn't make them real. Read up on the tactics of propaganda. Then go to indymedia and tell me it is not a propaganda outlet. I know people like you like to think your saving the world, but really your just part of the same thing thats been going on for a very long time. Protesting is nothing new, and your list of protests is nothing more then what normaly goes on. Do you know what a band wagon is?

"the post I transported."

You mean the propaganda you copy pasted?

"I do not usually pay much attention to what someone's opinion is in a factual post. I just look at the facts."

The fact is that you fell for some pretty lame propaganda. If you were to look at just the facts, you would have to have been at every one of the so called protests. Since your getting your facts from a biased and known propagada outlet, I doubt that you truely know any of the real facts.

"I go through hundreds of posts a day."

Really? Wow, your a hell of guy to read that much propaganda in one day. Man, you must know everything by now, or you think you do anyway. It doesn't matter if you read a million pieces of propaganda if they are all BS. You will have still learned nothing but what your programers wanted you to.

"Enourmous movement does not relate to individual numbers as I see it, but to the geography involved."

Oh, I get it now. If a couple of people show up in LA and a few in New York, then because of how far they are from each other it would be considered an enormous protest. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Like you, I find it hard to believe a post that starts out leading you with a lie. You propaganda that you transported said the movment was enormous. I believe that to be a false and missleading statement. You have not proved to me otherwise yet.

"Where is the benefit of BS over one word of a post that shows that thousands (in total) are protesting AND THERE IS NO CORPORATE COVERAGE OF THESE EVENTS. "

Freedom of speech is a wonderfull thing, isn't it? Why do you get so angry at dissent? You seem to think I should just keep my mouth shut and let you propagate with your BS without having anyone say bad things about your message. I see your BS for what it is, if you don't like my commenting on it, tough shit for you.

"Yet, the only thing you gained from the post was. "THIS POST IS NOT HUGE NUMBERS.""

Well, I guess you gained that there is a huge movement taking hold of the US.

" Yep, thats real supportive activism."

Why should I support something I think is BS? What, am I supposed to support any old activism that comes along just because it gets labeled as activism? I don't think I have ever heard that one before. I have to be supportive of activism, even if I think it is BS. Wow, that kind of logic is amazing!

"Give me some facts and not a 30 second BS post on something that has "huge" factual information"

Give you facts? Hell, I was still waiting to see your facts. Where are they, I haven't seen anything but some words off a web site. Is that what you call fact? Have you ever tried to check out some of indymedias claims? I have. One inparticular is the "prison camp" BS. I went to several of the locations they listed, and came away empty handed. Nothing there but BS. A few thousand people spred out over the US, is nothing. Do you know what the population of the US is? 300,000,000!

"dismissed as some BS opinion on what was not even stated in the article."

I think your a little confused here and there. You seem to read an awfull lot into stuff that is not there.

"you fascist"

It's clear you have lost confidence in your arguement if you have to resort to things like this. But I'm game, what is it about me that makes me a fascist to you? Is it the fact that I dissagree with you? I think it is just that.

Toker

[Ed Ward MD]

Sorry, anything that is true is not propaganda. Anything true or false may be said to be propaganda according to your definition. For no one writes anything without a reason or cause. All information on pot would be propaganda also?

Defining Propaganda:
http://www.historians.org/Projects/G...ropaganda8.htm

So yes, since everything is propaganda according to your definition then yes, it's propaganda.

If we are to take for the criterion of truth the majority of suffrages, they ought to be gotten from those philosophic and patriotic citizens who cultivate their reason. U.S. president. Madison to Benjamin Rush, March 7, 1790. W.T. Hutchinson et al., The Papers of James Madison, vol. 13, pp. 93-94, Chicago and Charlottesville, Virginia (1962-1991). Subject: Government - Suffrage
More propaganda according to Libertarian Toker

And yet you claim to be a LIBERTARIAN? pisshead on you fascist. What's that...Below Me?

TR E WAR, III

At least ToeRag shows his republo fascism, he at least does not hide his fascism under the guise of liberty.

[Ed Ward MD]

And the problem of defining propaganda is all the more tangled because in the first World War it acquired certain popular meanings that stick to it like burrs to a cocker spaniel.

To some speakers and writers, propaganda is an instrument of the devil. They look on the propagandist as a person who is deliberately trying to hoodwink us, who uses half-truths, who lies, who suppresses, conceals, and distorts the facts. According to this idea of the word, the propagandist plays us for suckers.

Facts are not propaganda. Feel free to play word games all you want. Meanwhile, if you do not support equality, constitutional rights and exposure of facts to the public. You are a fascist not a libertarian.

TR E WAR, III

[Libertarian Toker]

"Meanwhile, if you do not support equality, constitutional rights and exposure of facts to the public. You are a fascist not a libertarian."

Well it's a good thing I support those things ain't it? Now why do you think I am a fascist again? What are the facts that say I am a fascist? If you only use fact, then you must have some that says I am a fascist, right? Please, if I am a fascist I would like to know about it, so if you could make the facts known it would sure help in this matter.

"Sorry, anything that is true is not propaganda."

Your wrong on that. You have not a clue to the meaning of the word propaganda if you think that truth can not be used as propaganda. Nor do you know that your facts are really true or not. Your assuming that they are facts in the first place. You have not tried to verify them to me or yourself. Your going on what you have been told is fact. Is it really? Can you prove what it says in your copy paste is true? Just like with major media, there are people controling what you read from the so called Independent media also. I know it is hard for you to understand, but you should at least try to understand that just because it is on a web site you like doesn't make it true.

Here is a good site, and a few more for you also. I suggest you read up on it.

http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRig...a/Military.asp

http://www.propagandacritic.com/

Military
http://www.psywarrior.com/FM33-1.html

Propaganda Tactics & Fahrenheit 9/11
http://www.workingpsychology.com/fahrenheit.html

http://rhetorica.net/propaganda.htm
"Propaganda is a systematic propagation of a doctrine, ideology, or idea of value to the speaker. I think the key word in that definition is "systematic." Merely stating an ideology or doctrine does not constitute propaganda. The ideology or doctrine must be spread through a system of communication events with the long-term goal of getting the audience to adopt a new way of thinking.

The term is often used pejoratively to describe attempts to move public opinion in a way, or to a position, that the critic doesn't like. One person's propaganda is another's cogent discourse. We should, however, put a finer point on the definition. We may evaluate a messages as propaganda when we detect that the speaker is trying to deceive more than to persuade (understanding that this, too, is a judgment call)..

One of the ways propaganda may be identified is through the systematic use of these common fallacies:

Ad Hominem: This is argument "against the person," also known as "name-calling." This fallacy signals propaganda when it is used to label people in order to box them off into categories. For example, always using the adjective "arch" before the noun "conservative" is often a sign of a systematic intent to stereotype the individual so described.
Either/or: This is the fallacy that there are only two positions in a given argument or only two approaches to a given situation. Life is more complicated than such simplistic dichotomies lead us to believe.
Ad Populum: This is argument "to the people," in which the speaker appeals to mass emotions. This fallacy often requires the use of generalized or abstract terms that have more emotional appeal than substance, e.g. patriotism, socialism, motherhood, radical, public-spirited. A related fallacy is called the "bandwagon," in which the speaker appeals to the audience's desire to be part of a particular group.
Transference: The speaker uses the thoughts of a venerable or symbolic figure to bolster a contemporary position, e.g. claiming that George Washington would have approved of a certain "bipartisan" maneuver because he warned against the dangers of faction (party).
Stacking the Deck: One stacks the deck when he/she leaves out relevant information, tells half-truths, exaggerates, or otherwise tampers with the facts. We often see this technique used in the presenting of statistics and polling results.
Opinion as Fact: The danger of stating opinion as fact is most acute when the propagandist is making a report of an observed event and using adjectives or adverbs to spin the observations, e.g. "The candidate spoke convincingly about his tax program."

[Libertarian Toker]

Bandwagon

"The propagandist hires a hall, rents radio stations, fills a great stadium, marches a million or at least a lot of men in a parade. He employs symbols, colors, music, movement, all the dramatic arts. He gets us to write letters, to send telegrams, to contribute to his cause. He appeals to the desire, common to most of us, to follow the crowd. Because he wants us to follow the crowd in masses, he directs his appeal to groups held together already by common ties, ties of nationality, religion, race, sex, vocation. Thus propagandists campaigning for or against a program will appeal to us as Catholics, Protestants, or Jews...as farmers or as school teachers; as housewives or as miners.

With the aid of all the other propaganda devices, all of the artifices of flattery are used to harness the fears and hatreds, prejudices and biases, convictions and ideals common to a group. Thus is emotion made to push and pull us as members of a group onto a Band Wagon." (Institute for Propaganda Analysis, 1938)

The basic theme of the Band Wagon appeal is that "everyone else is doing it, and so should you." Since few of us want to be left behind, this technique can be quite successful. However, as the IPA points out, "there is never quite as much of a rush to climb onto the Band Wagon as the propagandist tries to make us think there is." When confronted with this technique, it may be helpful to ask ourselves the following questions:

What is this propagandist's program?
What is the evidence for and against the program?
Regardless of the fact that others are supporting this program, should I support it?
Does the program serve or undermine my individual and collective interests?

http://www.propagandacritic.com/arti...bandwagon.html

[Ed Ward MD]

Please define some more words for me. Your word activism is awesome.

TR E WAR, III