ok I'm extremely high here so my thoughts won't be all together, but...

Quote Originally Posted by muordeeb
Well to me there has to be a God or something greater than we are. There has to be some kind of intelligence underlying all natural functions. Look at the human body, in the electron transport chain how is the oxygen molecule in the right place at the right time to accept its electrons, if this doesn't happen your entire life you will sufficate from the inside. There is intelligence there.
The problem atheists have here is the methodology behind the assumptions. Besides the fact that there are advanced evolutionary explanations for all that, even assuming evolution never occured..... this whole intelligence-theory doesn't actually have anything to back it up. There could be any number of theories as to why there's such complexity in life, any number of explanations that science can't yet explain, countless mechanisms within the very fabric of reality, the workings throughout this universe we barely understand. saying there is an intelligent designer is simply an easy answer, the only one we can comprehend at the moment and so therefor interpreted as "proof". But simply because it's the only answer many people can think of, isn't proof, it's just assumption that the hypothesis is correct.

Suppose that consciousness is actually the purest form for the fabric of certain dimensions of reality. Suppose the fabric of this dimensional plane, being related to consciousness, has a sort of "conscious" understanding of the universe, but without the ego which creates a sense of "self" that makes us individuals. This fabric then replicates itself, through unknown processes, by creating a complexity through manipulating matter at the quantum level, which would lead to the result of us, human beings, being the most advanced form of consciousness and therefor on the highest-of-yet-achieved self-replication of this dimension which affects all reality.

now that was a pretty wild theory, but it's a logically plausible explanation in relation to acceptable methodology, especially since we can't yet understand all the mechanisms at work and how they work in themselves. But this is not simply accepted as the answer, because I would now need to prove it. The point is, we can imagine infinite explanations for the complexity of life, "intelligence" being the easiest one doesn't make it right, anymore than anything else I or you or anybody can conjure up.

God, quite simply, is man's primitive way of explaning things when the real processes are too complex for us to yet understand. It's a scapegoat for real exploration, one that's been around as long as human history and has undeniably stunted scientific and even philisophical growth by indoctrinating us with the easy answer.


You see to me we all blame God for all our shortcomings and our wrongs, but the whole time we have forgotten about the anti-god, some call him satan,naatas,beelzebuub,iblyis. One of satans greatest feat is deceiving to world to make you think he doesn't exist.
I've heard that many times, but this is another example of how people can be convinced using the premise as the conclusion. By making a statement that our non-belief in satan is satan's greatest trick, you already work under the assumption that satan exists to assume that it's correct that satan's apparent non-existence is the result of his deception.


Some people need proof to believe in something greater than them. Many a year ago people believed that the world was flat when it had been round or becoming round for 9 billion years. Some people would not believe in microorganism if not for the microscope. People just need to think. There is no instrument or machine to measure the presence of this intelligence, but it is there. See you on the other side.:rastasmoke:

Your right, people do need to think. And I honestly believe that indoctrinating the masses to accept the commonly held belief because it's the only currently available answer, is what stunts our ability to think and progress in our understanding. People rightly didn't think there were micro-organisms, because there was no available evidence to make such a conclusion, pointing more toward ignorance of knoweldge than denial of a belief. But people also don't believe that there's an invisible flying spegetti monster roaming space, for the simple reason that there's still no logical reason to believe that the spagetti monster's out there. There are infinite things we did and didn't believe, and as time progresses we learn to separate the real from the non-real as we discover things like the micro-organisms. Hence, you can't simply say that god's existence is plausible simply because we're always discovering new knowledge, otherwise everything is equally plausible that we don't yet have proof for the existence of.


Humanity, if it progresses much further in thought, will innevitably have to realize that the complexity of existence doesn't have nice easy answers that we're able to comprehend at the time being. God needs real evidence to support his existence, not just assumption because we can't currently come up with a better answer; history has had COUNTLESS easy-answers for things we couldn't currently explain, like Thor hammering his anvil to explain thunder, or bad chi's to explain all disease, or pinholes in the sky at night giving us a tiny glimpse into heaven (this was a popular explanation for stars). One day, I hope more than hope, humanity will find the answers by exploration of how we can manipulate this existence, rather than just easy and primitive answers that distract us from the real answers.
mrdevious Reviewed by mrdevious on . If God is real, why are there atheists? The biggest problem with the God hypothesis, so far as I can tell, is accounting for the fact that there is absolutely no concrete evidence for God anywhere. My question is: what kind of God would set things up that way? Why would God create a universe in which it is possible to be an atheist, if he wants us to believe in him? There are a four ways of explaining this that I can think of: (1) There is a God, but he doesn't want anybody to believe in him. (2) There is a God, but he doesn't Rating: 5