intelligent design > pure accident

[delusionsofNORMALity]

If it is implausible to suggest that something as complex as life could have arisen by chance, how can you in your right mind suggest that something even more complex than life itself (namely, an intelligent designer who is complex enough not just all lifeforms but the entire universe) just *poof* came out of nowhere by accident?

the question is answered by the religious "fact" that god has always existed, that god exists outside of time and space.

[harris7]

I think it is more reasonable to say the universe has been around for ever

[Delta9 UK]

I think it is more reasonable to say the universe has been around for ever

Define "forever" :stoned:

I think its easier to say it just 'always existed'.

Let's imagine that nothing existed before, fuck all, sweet FA - nada.

Difficult isn't it? Human brains are finite, the universe *might* not be

[hazetwostep]

harris...

why is it more probable to believe the universe has always been than a spiritual power having always been??

[harris7]

Well, this is a subject I haven’t thought much about. So by no means do I consider my answer perfect.

So we know the universe exists.
Some people do not accept that the universe could have existed forever
So they make a huge leap and say it was made by an intelligent entity.
And that this entity has existed forever.

This entity existing forever is somehow more reasonable belief than the universe existing forever.

I guess I’m just saying it takes a large unnecessary leap to make that conclusion. When the only result is postponing the mystery of creation. So it leaves just as big, actually a bigger question to be answered and demands a huge leap of faith (believing in a supernatural being).

[Euphoric]

YO JUST GOtTA GiVE PROpS to this Idea :joint1:

[TokinAsianGuy]

i was thinking about this very topic a few weeks back. and to be honest, i still haven't solidified anything in my mind yet, no concrete beliefs. "just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.." is something i like to throw in when discussing this topic with friends. when you say that, most people usually open their minds a little more.

[hazetwostep]

harris or anybody,

what in science or nature would make one lean towards a conclusion that there is in fact no higher power/being than humans? the fact that humans would want to contact it, does not mean that it would in fact contact us if it existed.

the fact that some people do wacky things in the name of this power does mean it does not exist. the fact that some followers of this "theory" claim to have full understanding of it but really don't, does not mean it does not exist.
d
what in science or nature would suggest that this higher power does in fact NOT exist and is not behind evolution? what would make this any less viable of a theory than the big bang or any other?

or is it just personal opinion that concludes so surely that it is not viable?

[harris7]

I try not to argue for God's inexistence, I try to find the arguments for god's existence. Haven’t found any good ones yet and I’ve looked long and hard

[braddog10]

For some reason, all proponents of intelligent design have refused to answer this question of mine:

If it is implausible to suggest that something as complex as life could have arisen by chance, how can you in your right mind suggest that something even more complex than life itself (namely, an intelligent designer who is complex enough not just all lifeforms but the entire universe) just *poof* came out of nowhere by accident?

What an excellent question. The methodology of reverse engineering is fascinating. Problem is a mystery popped up in the midst of the theorem. There are mysteries. Paul in one of his epistles mentioned that he had been shown and mysteries revealed that could not be spoken. Reading your question really stumped me. continuing to read I was struck by how appropriate Delusions response was ("the question is answered by the religious "fact" that god has always existed, that god exists outside of time and space").

Your question is very interesting oneironaut, but Haze really hit it well when he said "We know less than 0.000000000001% of what there is to be known". God is not bound by time. We are. How long have we lived as it relates to timelessness. Your question still changes nothing as it relates to the fact that life here is far too complex to just have occurred. For everything to come together completely (with nothing absent) all at the same time for a cell to develop (with DNA) and for the miracle of life also to come into "being". This shouldn't be ignored.