Some of my issues with "intelligent design."

[MastaChronic]

I'm pretty much done with this thread, though I have learned something. I never undstood until recently why Richard Dawkins said he refused to engage theists in logical televised debates. Now I understand. Those completely devoted to their faith will indeed claim to have plenty of logical evidence. But once you deconstruct it, they take the easy and entirely irrational road out. They simply throw logic out the window, then claim that logic is unnecessary but their beliefs are still rational. Their justification is that they simply KNOW, deep down, that god exists. That their relationship with him is something only they can see, and therefor exists.
In reality, this is an excuse for the worse symptom brought upon by the virus of faith. What this virus does is convince you thoroughly that you are right. It makes your brain shut out logic and reasoning, and convinces you that because your brain has reached a state congruent with a logically-held conclusion, it must therefor be true. It puts your mind in a state where your beliefs no longer need rationality, no longer need a reason, they simply need to be reinfoced by a powerfull devotion so strong that it supresses everything to the contrary. It convinces you that your devotion is of the highest importance, that everything that threatens such devotion is a threat to be rejected.

And, sadly enough, people convince themselves to forget that the brain is capable of absolutely anything and everything. There is NO LIMIT to what it can convince you of, there is NO LIMIT to how real it can make something seem. The brain's ability to convince you of the authenticity of a belief or perception is so powerfull that it can seem a thousand times more convincing than anything percieved in the real world can be. It is why schizophrenics cannot be convinced that the voices aren't real, it is why terrorists cannot be convinced that god is not a tool of hatred, it is why fellow's like Bong30 in the political forum cannot be convinced their perception can be wrong, no matter what evidence exists to the contrary. Instead people cling to the false belief that if something weren't real, there would be some small SOMETHING that would feel or seem wrong; but it simply isn't so. And so the cycle continues, and people continually justify themselves in whatever belief they hold, that it MUST be true because their mind sees it as so incredibly, convincingly real. Justifiction is no longer needed because the belief is clamped down by iron spikes that will allow no train of reasoning to dislodge it.

theres a psychiatric term for what you have just described, it is called SCHIZOPHRENIA

[harris7]

no not really. schizophrenia is a genetic caused psychological disorder that manifests itself in delusions and hallucinations. Irrationality isn’t part of it

They do have irrational beliefs but they are receiving pretty solid proof. Like if they believe the devil is talking to him, it’s because they actually perceive that it’s wrong but not irrational

[MastaChronic]

okay........let me rephrase it a little bit.
what mr.devious posted sounds quite a bit like schizophrenia

[Pass That Shit]

The logic one always makes me laugh. Logic?

Where is the logic in putting your life (eternal) on the line for something that man has never proven to be untrue? If it's so unlogical to believe in God, then why hasn't any brilliant scientist disproven any of the biblical writers from any generation? Where is the logic in not believing in something that tells you to believe if you want to live? You guys will write long paragraphs explaining how you think the bible is untrue. But really, you're not disproving it either. So since no one has proven it wrong, why is it so illogical to believe in God?

Here is my logic.

God said he made the light. I look up and see the sun.
God made the evening and the morning. Our day starts at midnight.
God gave us the sun, moon and the stars. We have a calendar.
God made us of the dust of the ground. We will return to the dust of the ground.
God made man and female. I have penis and my wife has vagina.
God told us to multiply. I have a 3 month old daughter.
God planted trees and plants. I grow all kinds of fruits and vegetables to eat.
God put the fish in the ocean. I see fishermen at work.
God was manifest in the flesh. Men witnessed Jesus.
Jesus was seen put to death. Jesus was seen after his resurrection.

Where is the logic in believing in an unknow energy that created all this and is not perfect? In other words, the energy is perfect enough to create all of this and it has an end? What is behind the science? Luck? Is that your logic? You got here by luck?

God said let there be light = Big Bang Theory
How can you prove that the big bang was not created by God?
Foget God. How can you prove what created the big bang theory?
Where does your logic come from? You can trust in man all you like, but my faith is in God.

[MastaChronic]

The logic one always makes me laugh. Logic?

Where is the logic in putting your life (eternal) on the line for something that man has never proven to be untrue? If it's so unlogical to believe in God, then why hasn't any brilliant scientist disproven any of the biblical writers from any generation? Where is the logic in not believing in something that tells you to believe if you want to live? You guys will write long paragraphs explaining how you think the bible is untrue. But really, you're not disproving it either. So since no one has proven it wrong, why is it so illogical to believe in God?

Here is my logic.

God said he made the light. I look up and see the sun.
God made the evening and the morning. Our day starts at midnight.
God gave us the sun, moon and the stars. We have a calendar.
God made us of the dust of the ground. We will return to the dust of the ground.
God made man and female. I have penis and my wife has vagina.
God told us to multiply. I have a 3 month old daughter.
God planted trees and plants. I grow all kinds of fruits and vegetables to eat.
God put the fish in the ocean. I see fishermen at work.
God was manifest in the flesh. Men witnessed Jesus.
Jesus was seen put to death. Jesus was seen after his resurrection.

Where is the logic in believing in an unknow energy that created all this and is not perfect? In other words, the energy is perfect enough to create all of this and it has an end? What is behind the science? Luck? Is that your logic? You got here by luck?

God said let there be light = Big Bang Theory
How can you prove that the big bang was not created by God?
Foget God. How can you prove what created the big bang theory?
Where does your logic come from? You can trust in man all you like, but my faith is in God.

not to be argumentative, but........... something that doesnt exist cannot be disproven because it doesnt exist for you to disprove it and the bible was written by the church to give support to their claims.
theres my simple explanation. now for an analogy
the bible says that god said "let there be light" your getting this information from a second source so it is much like somebody telling you that "jimmie" told them that he wants to fuck you in the ass. you cant disprove it and if you go looking for jimmie, but you cant find him (because he doesnt really exist) but you cant disprove that jimmie because you cant find him, does that make jimmie real? simply becuase you cant find him? your going to have to go on second party information if your going to believe it and second party information isnt always reliable, sometimes its made up.

[Pass That Shit]

So your sources are trustworthy?

Spin it anyway you like, but these men left writings and you're accusing them of lying. This is a fact.
What if they are not lying about the things to come? Are you ready?

[mrdevious]

Holy hell PTS, this is exactly why I quit debating. You're making the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS that you've made 10 times before. And every time I've completely proven why they are false, you once AGAIN ignored them and didn't manage to counter it with any kind of argument, then proceeded to make it once again. This time you even did it in the same thread!

[Stemis516]

mrdevious


we would all appreciate if u stayed true to ur word and stopped posteing in this thread

[harris7]

^^ i would rather he stay.

PTS,
the problem is there is a very obvious explanation other than god existing.

I don’t believe that you would jump to the conclusion based on what you said that God exists when a simpler explanation is so obvious.

Someone doing the same things as you, looking at sun, growing fruit and so on. Wrote the bible. Seriously man.

Now I will proceed to convince you to believe in another god named Bob

Bob said water will fall from the sky. (we call it rain)
Bob put fish in the ocean. (wow there are fish in the ocean)
Bob planted trees and plants. I have all kinds of fruits and vegetables to eat.

Well you life just got confusing because now you have two religions. Christianity and Bobism

[mrdevious]

mrdevious


we would all appreciate if u stayed true to ur word and stopped posteing in this thread

Is there some non-justification in what I said above? It's 100% true, and I've been dealing with it a long time. When somebody acts that rediculously and keeps pouding us with the same non-sensicle arguments that he continuously and repeatedly uses, yet never backs up after it's been completely shot down, I'm going to call him on it. Don't blame me for not rolling over at such astounding ignorance.

Besides, I said I'm pretty much done with the thread. That's not a written-in-stone promise to never post a single thing, that's a declaration of my choice to no longer participate in an argument where my opponent just ignores the counter-points and keeps at the non-sensicle jabbering.