question about hell...

[Oneironaut]

Wow, Christians believe some crazy shit, don't they? I mean, seriously, you believe all this stuff about the rapture and hell and Satan and all that, based on, what? Some ancient collection of Jewish mythology and some cryptic writings about one of many people claiming to be the messiah in first century Judaea...

It seems equally logical to put one's faith in the Qur'an, which was supposedly dictated to the prophet Muhammed in the seventh century by Allah through the angel Gabriel.

Or to put one's faith in Homer's Odyssey, which describes how the many gods helped Greece in its conquest of Troy.

I mean, we have all these ancient mythological writings on file, and we can be sure that most of them are flat out wrong for the simple reason that they all contradict each other. What makes the outlandish claims of the Bible particularly believable?

I am convinced that belief in the Bible or any other ancient mythological writings cannot possibly be based on logic or reason. In the vast majority of cases religious faith boils down to a little bit of wishful thinking and a lot of tradition and authority (usually from the parents and/or the culture of the particular region where the individual happens to live).

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Wow, Christians believe some crazy shit...

yup!

religions are based on some really crazy shit and christianity has stolen/borrowed from most of them.

the whole eternal punishment thing seems to be a bit over the top though. i mean, i can understand the elitist mentality that would create heaven to reward the believers of the "true faith", but why do they feel they must punish the rest of us.

and for eternity too, how vindictive is that!!!!!

[Oneironaut]

And once you die, if you go to heaven(we actually don't go to heaven until after satan is permently sealed in the lake of fire, before that we are in a waiting point like hell, but much more luxiourious)you no longer miss those who will or are in hell.

So, what happens? Does God take over my mind and reprogram me so I am incapable of feeling that emotion?

You understand that they had the same choise as you and they didn't do what they should have done. You might feel a twinge of regret, but not sorrow.

No, sorry, but you can't tell me what emotions I would feel in a particular circumstance. I'm pretty sure if I knew my loved ones were being tortured for eternity under the orders of an egomaniacal cosmic dictator called God, I would feel more than a "twinge of regret" (this is because I'm not a cold heartless bastard). And I would most definitely not feel a smug sense of moral superiority as you might.

[mrdevious]

EDIT: sorry, meant to make this an individual post.

[hazetwostep]

harris,

to answer your question and not get into the debate of whether or not there is a hell...

satan (aka lucifer) was kicked out of heaven for planning a rebellion against god. he (along with 1/3 of the angels who followed him) were kicked out of heaven (hebrew for 3rd heaven) into the atmosphere (hebrew for 2nd heaven) and was given that place to dwell (aka hell and satan was given charge over it). we dwell on the earth (hebrew for 1st heaven)... man was given dominion over this heaven...

this is the belief of the majority of catholic and protestant sects...

[Oneironaut]

That doesn't make any sense:

(1) God is omnipotent, and Satan should have known that rebelling against an omnipotent being is futile.
(2) God is omniscient, and Satan should have known that trying to plot in secret against an omniscient being is futile.
(3) God should have been unafraid of the rebellion, since he could have easily defeated it.
(4) God should have vanquished Satan to stop him from doing evil deeds, instead of rewarding him with a whole dominion full of souls to play around with as he pleases.
(5) If Satan is really bent on rebelling against God, he would treat kindly the souls in his dominion, so they will be swayed to his side and join his army voluntarily. He wouldn't torture people's souls for doing stuff God doesn't want them to do. He should be pleased with all the souls who turn away from God.

[Hamlet]

That doesn't make any sense

It makes perfect sense when you look at it along side other mythologies. Zeus tormenting Prometheus, Hermes and his shinanigans; Odin, Thor and the crew having all the heavenly fun in the stories told about them.

You see in the old days they didn't view God as we would probably consider him now; as an all-encompassing spirit permeating everything. The Universe wasn't as big. God to them lived on that mountain they couldn't climb; was up in the clouds and threw lightning at them.

Actually the Old Testament didn't deny other gods. The Hebrews just considered theirs the greatest and you weren't supposed to have other gods before him. War back then was about 'capturing the god'. If you could take the other guys statue of their god, your god was greater than theirs. (or if yours was captured, your own god delivered you into captivity for being bad)

Of course the stories get blended with other mythologies, borrowing from one another. The Greeks had Heracules, the Hebrews had Samson, and so on. Hell was borrowed from the Greeks Hades, with a little bit of Egyptian underworld stuff thrown in for good measure.

In fact, this is one of the tamer stories when you think about the Earth resting on the back of a great turtle and other fables to explain the Universe.

[harris7]

It makes perfect sense when you look at it along side other mythologies. Zeus tormenting Prometheus, Hermes and his shinanigans; Odin, Thor and the crew having all the heavenly fun in the stories told about them.

You see in the old days they didn't view God as we would probably consider him now; as an all-encompassing spirit permeating everything. The Universe wasn't as big. God to them lived on that mountain they couldn't climb; was up in the clouds and threw lightning at them.

Actually the Old Testament didn't deny other gods. The Hebrews just considered theirs the greatest and you weren't supposed to have other gods before him. War back then was about 'capturing the god'. If you could take the other guys statue of their god, your god was greater than theirs. (or if yours was captured, your own god delivered you into captivity for being bad)

Of course the stories get blended with other mythologies, borrowing from one another. The Greeks had Heracules, the Hebrews had Samson, and so on. Hell was borrowed from the Greeks Hades, with a little bit of Egyptian underworld stuff thrown in for good measure.

In fact, this is one of the tamer stories when you think about the Earth resting on the back of a great turtle and other fables to explain the Universe.

What is your position towards people who believe the bible literally, word for word.

[Hamlet]

What is your position towards people who believe the bible literally, word for word.

I've never met anyone who believes in the Bible literally, word for word. I know a lot of people who claim to, and they're never rational about it- Mainly from fear of the above-mentioned topic. Most haven't even read it and are told what to believe about it by their particular religions. But besides that fact, the Bible contradicts itself so much that you would be forced to believe two opposing statements simultaniously.

[harris7]

well the bible contradicts itself very frequently. and yes it "should" pose very big problems for fundamentalists. but it dosn't, odd. why would that be?
The things is, these people actually believe contradicting things. several of the people on here do, but they somehow rationalize it for themselves


I haven’t met anyone like that either. but i'm going to very soon!!!!!!
my buddy has a g/l i haven’t met and she dosn't believe in evolution.
this is very exciting for me. i've never met someone who dosn't.
except on here