Democrats,terrorists and 'brotherly way'

[Hamlet]

okay just started reading this thread, so need a mo to catch up, just got up to this post, bong right on man, whenever people complain about iraq and say america had no business there (this is something that happens ALOT over here in australia) i always ask them if they feel the people of iraq were better off when saddam was in poer, most of em actually say yes, which prooves they dont know what theyre on about, bush put an end to all the shit saddam was doing, an end to all the rape rooms saddams men used to abuse young women (some girls as young as 11 or 12) and now iraq is so much bettewr off, sorry if by now this post is old news, just really wanted to comment on it,,,,,

You're kidding, right? We've got civilian guts splattered all over the sand, their homes and livelihoods destroyed, their women raped by soldiers (some as young as 11 and 12), and their country in ruins.

Yes Saddam was a bad egg, but he was a pussycat compared to the hell we've rained on regular 'joe iraqi' just going through life, trying to get by.

What kills me is people actually believe the Bush Administration is doing this because they really cared about the wellfare and freedom of the Iraqi people.

But then again, I heard a poll that said 40% of the American public thinks we're fighting in Iraq because they were directly responsible for 911. No wonder we were ignorant enough to elect a dunce like Bush into office.

[GetDown]

we stopped japan.........

I have 2 japanese cars in my drive way..... War makes Peace. (when you take the gloves off, and quit policing everybody...huh)?

when you fight a P.C.....war you cant win... the left wing media weakens our resolve to win. Mine as well be working for Al quida in my book.

Or the NVA in walters case.......the NVA in janes case...


I see the point on everyone needs to smoke some weed......

exactly right, plus after a war america and israel have always been known to do the right thing and helped their former enemies rebuild, look at israel, after the war a couple decades back they owned half of egypt i believe, they built on most of that land then gave it back (though giving it back was in retrospect a bad idea, as it set a precedence which is now being taken overboard) and america is helping iraq build their economy and government completely from the ground up

[GetDown]

You're kidding, right? We've got civilian guts splattered all over the sand, their homes and livelihoods destroyed, their women raped by soldiers (some as young as 11 and 12), and their country in ruins.

Yes Saddam was a bad egg, but he was a pussycat compared to the hell we've rained on regular 'joe iraqi' just going through life, trying to get by.

What kills me is people actually believe the Bush Administration is doing this because they really cared about the wellfare and freedom of the Iraqi people.

But then again, I heard a poll that said 40% of the American public thinks we're fighting in Iraq because they were directly responsible for 911. No wonder we were ignorant enough to elect a dunce like Bush into office.

mate let me ask you something, did you fight in the army? did you personally see civillian guts and women raped by soldiers? no i didnt think so, i was in the army, didnt fight in iraq but i was in the area and witnessed a hell of alot, i have seen the good the bush administration has done and is continuing to do, and i have even been thanked by iraqi civilians for everything i was doing (granted i didnt do much, but they saw the uniform and figured i did)

[Zimzum]

okay just started reading this thread, so need a mo to catch up, just got up to this post, bong right on man, whenever people complain about iraq and say america had no business there (this is something that happens ALOT over here in australia) i always ask them if they feel the people of iraq were better off when saddam was in poer, most of em actually say yes, which prooves they dont know what theyre on about, bush put an end to all the shit saddam was doing, an end to all the rape rooms saddams men used to abuse young women (some girls as young as 11 or 12) and now iraq is so much bettewr off, sorry if by now this post is old news, just really wanted to comment on it,,,,,

wilkl be back in a sec with something more uptodate....

Rape still happens. People during Saddam weren't shot at / being blown up / being beheaded on there way to the market. What we saved there people from they got back in the increased violence. Until things actually settle down there it wont be any different.

[Torog]

Okay Torog, you can't see the conflict between all this preaching about 'freeing others from tyranny, and brutal dictators', -- and our own schemeing tyrants getting all indignant because we won't allow ourselves to loose our liberties to would-be dictators here? Do you actually trust these guys enough to turn over your freedoms and rights to them? Remember, it didn't bother Nixon to use the IRS to go after political enemies, and it wouldn't bother these cats in Washington to twist seized powers to their own corrupt purposes either. Cheney and Rumsfeld became buddies and cut their teeth working for the criminal Nixon administration and they still play ball like that.

But here's something you really need to think hard about since you seem pretty adament about throwing the Church jargon around. Remember what Jesus said? Luke 6:27. "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, <--So how does this go along with what you posted above about why it's a bad thing that Democrats want to make friends with the enemy?

And on that note, why do you think the people of Iraq are our enemies in the first place? Because they're not Christians? They had nothing to do with 911 and never attacked us. We're not freeing them from anything. We're slaughtering them for oil and they're fighting back.

Howdy Hamlet,

I worry more about the Dim's inheriting the powers that can be twisted and used against their political enemies,than I do about the repubs sinking to such a level.

I understand what Jesus meant,and we do just that,we and the Israeli's,provide medical attention to those terrorists who attack us,quite often,the terrorists who survive their homicide bombing attacks or other attacks,are treated in the same ER,as their victims. Since ya know the Bible so well,can ya find where Jesus said that we must allow ourselves to be totally vanquished by Evil ?

It was the leadership of Iraq,and it's supporters,that we are enemies with,not the common Iraqi,and if we're slaughtering them for oil,how come we don't have their oil flooding the market ? If we're slaughtering them for oil,we ain't being very effecient about it,we could quickly wipe em out,if we so choose.

Unless you are personally in possesion of every bit of intel from Iraq,you cannot categorically state,that saddam and sons,didn't have anything to do with the 9/11/01 attack.

Have a good one ...:jointsmile:

[Hamlet]

mate let me ask you something, did you fight in the army? did you personally see civillian guts and women raped by soldiers? no i didnt think so, i was in the army, didnt fight in iraq but i was in the area and witnessed a hell of alot, i have seen the good the bush administration has done and is continuing to do, and i have even been thanked by iraqi civilians for everything i was doing (granted i didnt do much, but they saw the uniform and figured i did)

Have I fought in Iraq? No I haven't. Have I personally seen civilian guts and soldiers raping women...yes I have. It's called the News. Conservative estimates of over 100 thousand civilian deaths..mostly women and children. Soldiers are on trial now for raping a 12 year old girl if you want to pick up a paper. Yeah, I'm sure they just want to give us a big group hug.

I work side by side with a kid who's spent the last 2 years over there doing the actual fighting and he has painted a pretty accurate picture for me of whats going on and the Iraqi peoples attitudes. <--they might have been kissing your ass but I guarantee you they don't love you.) That, along with plenty of credible journalism, and the real facts are all there. Maybe you want to believe whatever you were doing over there was worthwhile, but denying the horror and chaos we've inflicted on that country and the peoples real sentiment towards us is living in a fantasy.

Think about it...would you thank the country who dropped a bomb on your house, killed your family, destroyed your neighborhood, and left you a refugee living hand to mouth in poverty?

[Hamlet]

Since ya know the Bible so well,can ya find where Jesus said that we must allow ourselves to be totally vanquished by Evil ?

I do know the Bible pretty well. I've had it forced down my throat most of my life and I've read it all the way through. The part you're looking for with that statement would be 'turn the other cheek'. (pretty much an apology for the Romans who 'vanquished' Israel, but that's a whole other discussion)

It was the leadership of Iraq,and it's supporters,that we are enemies with,not the common Iraqi,and if we're slaughtering them for oil,how come we don't have their oil flooding the market ? If we're slaughtering them for oil,we ain't being very effecient about it,we could quickly wipe em out,if we so choose.

No we're not being very efficent about it. But Bush himself said Iraqi oil would pay for this whole invasion thing. Iraq sells most of it's oil to Europe and others...a successful invasion would change that. I assure you it was one of several motives for this invasion.

Unless you are personally in possesion of every bit of intel from Iraq,you cannot categorically state,that saddam and sons,didn't have anything to do with the 9/11/01 attack.

Yes I can because all the Intel about 911 is there to see. Bush has even finally admitted Iraq had no ties to 911. The reason I know there is not one shred of evidence is because the Bush administration would have been waving it in our faces as justification for invasion....and if he would have had that one shred of evidence, me and every other person against the Iraq war would be behind striking back at Iraq. No one said a word about Afganistan because it was justified. Suggesting Iraq was behind it is as proposterous and all the 911 conspiracy bullshit that Bush was behind it.

Of course you're welcome to your opinions Torog, but in this forum you're going to have to earn them...just like I have to...lol

If I'm full of shit, I have no problem changing my mind and saying I'm wrong. Hell, I spend most of my time being wrong. So if I am, set me straight with a good strong argument...

Have a good one

[Torog]

I do know the Bible pretty well. I've had it forced down my throat most of my life and I've read it all the way through. The part you're looking for with that statement would be 'turn the other cheek'. (pretty much an apology for the Romans who 'vanquished' Israel, but that's a whole other discussion)



No we're not being very efficent about it. But Bush himself said Iraqi oil would pay for this whole invasion thing. Iraq sells most of it's oil to Europe and others...a successful invasion would change that. I assure you it was one of several motives for this invasion.



Yes I can because all the Intel about 911 is there to see. Bush has even finally admitted Iraq had no ties to 911. The reason I know there is not one shred of evidence is because the Bush administration would have been waving it in our faces as justification for invasion....and if he would have had that one shred of evidence, me and every other person against the Iraq war would be behind striking back at Iraq. No one said a word about Afganistan because it was justified. Suggesting Iraq was behind it is as proposterous and all the 911 conspiracy bullshit that Bush was behind it.

Of course you're welcome to your opinions Torog, but in this forum you're going to have to earn them...just like I have to...lol

If I'm full of shit, I have no problem changing my mind and saying I'm wrong. Hell, I spend most of my time being wrong. So if I am, set me straight with a good strong argument...

Have a good one

Howdy Hamlet,

"Turn the other cheek",does not mean committing suicide,it means doing everything we can,before we must defend ourselves from evildoers..in the hope that the evildoers will change their minds and decide to not committ evil acts against others.

We never see all the facts,because doing such,would reveal our humint and elint assets,to the enemy. What you've seen,is pablum for the masses and the enemy.

As for a "good strong argument",I got the experience in the ME and oil patch,that you don't have,as well as being in the military..do you have such qualifications ?

Have a good one ...

[Dutch Pimp]

...having been in the military...is not a qualifier...for a good strong argument..

..I prefer to hear..from all sides...

[GetDown]

Have I fought in Iraq? No I haven't. Have I personally seen civilian guts and soldiers raping women...yes I have. It's called the News. Conservative estimates of over 100 thousand civilian deaths..mostly women and children. Soldiers are on trial now for raping a 12 year old girl if you want to pick up a paper. Yeah, I'm sure they just want to give us a big group hug.

I work side by side with a kid who's spent the last 2 years over there doing the actual fighting and he has painted a pretty accurate picture for me of whats going on and the Iraqi peoples attitudes. <--they might have been kissing your ass but I guarantee you they don't love you.) That, along with plenty of credible journalism, and the real facts are all there. Maybe you want to believe whatever you were doing over there was worthwhile, but denying the horror and chaos we've inflicted on that country and the peoples real sentiment towards us is living in a fantasy.

Think about it...would you thank the country who dropped a bomb on your house, killed your family, destroyed your neighborhood, and left you a refugee living hand to mouth in poverty?

mate, the media is a business, they arent usually interested in the truth, they are interested in getting people to read their articles, buy their magazienes, watch their shows, now what is the best way to get people to tune in?
Bagging America, they know that the people who support the war are going to be watching and getting pissed off, but they wont stop watching, and they know that the people against the war are also going to get pissed, anger is a powerfull emotion which the media wants you to feel, once your mad youll watch more news, read more papers and do what ever else, because rare is the person who says, this is pissing me off, ill just change the channel

having said that, even if you dont agree with me there you should atleast agree to the fact that watching something on the news is NOWHERE NEAR the same thing as actually being there, and they were not just kissing my ass, its very easy to tell who is being polite to you coz they have to and who genuinely appreciates you, if you cant tell the difference between an asskisser and someone that likes you then i do feel sorry for you

now i wouldnt thank someone who left me a refugee, but i would thank someone who took a dictator, a son of a bitch scumbag, who killed many of my family and friends, and whos soldiers raped my daughters and nieces, and put the bastard where he could no longer do any harm, then help fix my country so it actually runs smoothly and has a fair government,

now i did hear about those yank soldiers, apparently they raped a 14 yr old girl and i think her mother as well but im not sure, then killed the family, that is a very tragic and horrible thing and i hope all of those soldiers get sent to a prison where they will be raped up the ass daily for the rest of their shitty lives, but one incident is very different from the daily rapings that occured when saddam was in power, and these soldiers are actually going to get severly punished for their actions, as opposed to saddams men who could do as they pleased with no fear