New Bubbler Grow Coming Soon - Input Welcome!

[JackdaWack]

i would stay away from ebay

[mackSwell]

Because... ?

If your thoughts are legal worries, I'm thinking that purchasing a hydro system or parts or pH stuff or nutes are not an indication of growing cannabis. For instance, I myself am only growing tomatoes, so any items I ordered from hardware stores, etc. are solely for legal purposes.

Otherwise, what reason(s) to avoid?

I get kick-ass, hard-to-find comics from eBay...

[Perp]

Perp -

I have had success in the past with incandescents during the flowering phase. At that point, the plants need red & far red light, and CFLs do provide some, but not as much. Hell, even good ol' Mr. Sunshine doesn't provide as much red as incandescents do!

Are you saying here that incandescents are better than the sun for flowering?

But perhaps I'll experiment with this batch since each plant has its own lamp. I could leave one on CFL throughout, and show y'all pix of the difference, if any. Test out that "anyone in their right mind" theory of yours. *smirk*

Please, do the experiment. Of all the years I've grown and hung around message boards like this one you the first and only person who has championed the use of incandescents. So what if they have "lots of that red", if you want red get a 150W HPS. Its like running 2.5 60W incandescents and you'll get 10 times more bud. Your first crop will pay for the light 5 times over at least. I'm sorry, dude, but IMO you're shooting yourself in the foot.

But, don't take my word for it. From the Marijuana Growers' Handbook (emphasis mine):

Cultivators rarely use incandescent or quartz halogen lights. They convert only about 10% of the energy they use to light and are considered inefficient.

Growers have used flurorescent tubes to provide light for many years. They are inexpensive, are easy to set up, and are very effective. Plants grow and bud well under them. They are two to three times as efficient as incandescents.

Here's another one from http://weedfarmer.com/cannabis/lights.php

The common incandescent light bulb emits some of the frequencies of light the cannabis plant can use, but it also emits a high percentage of far red and infra-red light which cause the cannabis plant to concentrate its growth on the stem. This results in the cannabis plant stretching toward the light bulb until it becomes so tall and spindly that it just weakly topples over.

There are several brands of bulb type. One is the incandescent cannabis plant spot light which emits higher amounts of red and blue light than the common light bulb. It is an improvement, but has it drawbacks. it is hot, for example, and cannot be placed close to the cannabis plants.

Consequently, the cannabis plant has to stretch upwards again and is in danger of becoming elongated and falling over. The red bands of light seem to encourage stem growth which is not desirable in growing marijuana. The idea is to encourage foliage growth for obvious reasons.

So I think it's pretty obvious that incandescents are inferior to flourescents in intensity and efficiency so why would anyone use them? If you want to, go ahead but I know there are better alternatives.

[JackdaWack]

im just sayin u can purchase all you need with out using ebay. They do watch what people buy, and these "hydro" systems are very popular for growing illgal things. Not that any of us do. But they do sell lists of people who buy what to people who may be intreasted. As digital documentions arent really evidence its still points "them" in a direction. DO what u want, it makes no diff to me. But i would most def. just buy a hps, If you want +yeaild + potenc IMO

[mackSwell]

Are you saying here that incandescents are better than the sun for flowering?

I'm simply saying that incandescents provide relatively more red wavelengths in their spectra than the sun does. Check the graphs - It's science and whatnot. *wink* If I could grow outdoors, I would. The sun is the ultimate all-in-one. But for indoor growing, we have to take the best synthetic options for the plants' needs and for our own purposes.

Please, do the experiment.

I'll tell ya what - If I get the bag seed to sprout, I'll definitely do Plant 1 on solely CFL, and Plant 2 on CFL & incandescent.

I might even do it with the good seeds for the betterment of all grow-kind.

If I have the spare bucks, I'll even do Plant 3 on CFL & HPS.

If I had unlimited funds, I'd also do Plant 4 on MH, Plant 5 on MH & incandescent, Plant 6 on MH & HPS, etc.


So I think it's pretty obvious that incandescents are inferior to flourescents in intensity and efficiency so why would anyone use them?


You ask me: Why would anyone use incandescents over CFL?

ANSWER: For flowering. CLF does not provide as much of the red waves which are proven to be beneficial during flowering.

I ask you: Why not use some incandescents (rather than solely CFL) to give your plants more of the red light they need during flowering and achieve more yield?

I absolutely agree that incandescents are crap for vegetative growth. It's like trying to make a souffle in an Easy Bake Oven. That CFL are more energy-efficient than incandescents is a given. And if you have to choose ONE type of bulb to use throughout, CFL is the way to go. More red than MH, more blue than HPS. (see graphs) I'm certainly not arguing for sole use of incandescents throughout!


All of the info quoted in your post about the effects of red light & heat apply to HPS AND incandescents. They are both used for their red wavelenghts during flowering, because it is proven that red is good for flowering.

HPS does have advantages over incandescent - The bulbs last longer, and are said to be even more energy-efficient than CFL. And in a situation where one bulb serves several plants, and/or the grower is growing a large crop, I expect that HPS has it all over incandescents.

So why would anyone use incandescents over HPS?

For my purposes, with 1 light per plant, 4-plant crop, in a small space, incandescents offer distinct advantages over HPS:

1) They put out less heat, so they can be placed closer to the plants - and, in an enclosed space, they have less effect on the ambient temperature.
2) They can be used in the same fixture as the CFL, so I don't need to buy a HPS-specific fixture, which saves money and allows for easier switching back & forth.
3) They are cheap and easy to get.

[mackSwell]

JackdaWack - You have a point. If one wants to be super-stealthy, refrain from ANY online ordering.

Refrain from posting here, for that matter. *chuckle*

But since the guy was talking prices, I just offered a cheap way to a hydro set-up.

I'm not recommending that anyone take my advice about anything. *grin*

[Perp]

I ask you: Why not use some incandescents (rather than solely CFL) to give your plants more of the red light they need during flowering and achieve more yield?

Because you can buy CFL w/ a red spectrum, if you want. They give off LESS heat than incand., cost LESS over the course of their lives, and produce MORE bud.

You're missing the point. "Plants grow and BUD well under them." You don't need to use incandescent.

Do the experiment, one plant w/ CFL, one plant w/ CFL + incand., and one w/ CFL(blue) + CFL(red) and tell me which one does better.

Good luck w/ your grow.

[mackSwell]

A "red fluorescent" would be preferable to an incandescent.

Does one exist?

I see much out there about "Warm White" fluorescents... Below you will see two graphs of Warm White spectra, and the incandescent spectrum again.

I see a lot of orange and yellow in the Warm Whites, but it looks to me like incandescents still provide much more red.

There are fluorescent agro-tubes that are said to put out strong blue and red, but again, these come at significant cost for bulb + fixture, and their superiority as a source of red is questionable anyway.

So I'm back to the question - Why not use incandescents if they are a better source of red light than even "warm" CFLs provide? Yes, they are less energy efficient. But if it's red light I seek...

Perhaps bad experiences or anecdotes about incandescents have prejudiced you against their use, regardless of their potential value?

Don't be an anti-incandescite! *grin*

[MisterE]

There's no reason for you not to try whatever you want to try obviously

If I had no choices, I would use CFL's until flower time, and then ADD a couple of incandescents. No sooner though, else they'd just stretch.

I believe there are warm CFL's that also are odor neutralizers.

[mackSwell]

On lights: I do plan to combine CFL and incandescent as per my original plan, unless I decide to go for The Test when I have 4 plants in the system.

None of the baggie seeds I tried this round sprouted. Awww. But I had one seedling from around 8 weeks ago that's been to Hell and back, and it is now vegging happily all by its lonesome in my system.

Seeds from Hemp Depot were shipped out on the 4th... Woohoo!


The Saga of the Seedling Surviver

So this little seedling was doing okay in a Jiffy Pellet on the windowsill, where I had been largely ignoring it, save occasional tap water straight from the faucet, and a bamboo skewer w/ dental floss to stake it, since its stem was so weak.

I decided to relocate it and give it some serious light, and to switch to "rested" tap water. It was happy under its new CFL, but the stem was still so weak (and now 2-3" long), that it was too late to use a fan - it would've just blown the little gal/guy into oblivion.

Here's where I got a case of the stupids - I tried to re-stake it with a straw that was slit down one side (as in to encase the stem), thinking this would provide better long-term support to the weak part, and allow me to use a fan for new growth without the interference of the bamboo skewer.

In my attempt to straw-stake, I pushed the straw into the soil, and inadvertantly severed the seedling from its root system. (DOH!)

Well, this little seedling is a surviver! I trimmed the stem short, and put it into a glass of water, and moved it back to the windowsill - I guess to give it a view while it died. But it did not go gently! It grew a couple new roots. Encouraged, I dipped it into rooting compound, and replanted it in the Jiffy pellet.

Then my bubbler arrived. You know I had to try...

I carefully removed the seedling from the Jiffy, rinsed all the dirt from the roots, and returned it to water (still on the sill) for a day or two while my system got established. The roots grew more than an inch in this time - Likely owing to a decent amount of dark time (roots like), and the residual effects of the rooting hormone.

About a week ago, I carefully pulled open a damp rockwool cube, laid the roots in it, closed it up, and put it into grow rocks in net pot.

This champ is thrilled! Due to uncertainty about how to age a plant that's been thru so much, I started it on light nutes, and then added more yesterday when I noticed some yellowing (N deficiency) in the leaves.

Overnight, the leaves began to green up nicely, and Champ grew 2 new sets of leaves - Literally overnight.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised... It is a weed, after all... But I'm proud of the little guy/gal.

The morals of the story are:
1) Don't mess with your seedings too much with your bright (or dim) ideas.
2) Don't give up until your plant does.
3) If you have a plant with a stem so weak/long you're thinking of trashing it, try cutting the stem very short, placing it it water, and seeing if it tries to grow new roots. Champ's stem is now very strong!