Judgement

[afghooey]

This is the source of my greatest confusion when it comes to the diestic Christian god.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent... if he transcends time... if he created the earth and stars and breathed his own life into us (essentially making us extentions of himself).... why would he have any need to judge?

If God is perfect, and we are extentions of God, then wouldn't God just be judging himself whenever he judges us?

afghooey Reviewed by afghooey on 11-17-2006. Judgement This is the source of my greatest confusion when it comes to the diestic Christian god. If God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent... if he transcends time... if he created the earth and stars and breathed his own life into us (essentially making us extentions of himself).... why would he have any need to judge? If God is perfect, and we are extentions of God, then wouldn't God just be judging himself whenever he judges us? Rating: 5

[harris7]

and Omnibenevolent

More so, he could never create a world that isn't the best possible.

[JunkYard]

Creation is perfect the way it is, Harris. Man is not, yet the not is relative to value, and moral. Perhaps we are perfect, only embrace the things that destroy within, as well as without?

Judgement is in the eye of the beholder, me thinks...


Much Love,

[afghooey]

Okay, let's assume that the reason God isn't in plain view right now is this test of free will that you speak of. If God were around, that would take away our choice of not believing in him, right?

Well, won't those who are chosen as worthy, as you say, lose their free will to not believe in God as soon as they've 'ascended' into his presence? Won't they have lost that free will for the rest of eternity? And won't the people who are burning in hell have lost that free will too? Once we reach that point, the only difference between us having had free will from the beginning and not having had it will be that a good many of god's beloved children will be burning in eternal misery. This just doesn't make sense to me at all.

If God is all those things I mentioned above -- allpowerful and omniscient, etc. -- then it is he who has created this world of chaos and confusion and hatred and fear. Even if man is the source of evil, god is the source of man, and therefore God is also the source of evil. How can we say that God encompasses all, and yet that we are separate, lower creatures that must be judged? How can we be separate from God if God is completely transcendent? And if we are a part of God, why would he choose to judge and punish himself?

[JunkYard]

Hell = Darkened heart (fear, anger, jealousy, bitterness, violence, insecurity, etc.) Eternal?

Heaven = Lighted heart (Full with Love) Eternal?

God = Choice

Judgement = Beholder thereof (Self punished - Self saved)


Free will, and my understanding of Gods "judgement".



I posted this in another thread, but thought it was relevent here, also..

The following is a section of Essential Buddhism by Jack MaGuire, page 27:

"A big tough samurai one went to see a little monk. In a voice accustomed to meeting with obedience, the samurai said, "Monk, teach me about heaven and hell."
The monk looked up at this mighty warrior and replied in a voice of utter contempt, "Teach you about heaven and hell? I couldn't teach you about anything. You're filthy. You stink. Your sword is rusty. You're a disgrace to the samurai class! Get out of my sight!"
The samurai was speechless with rage. His muscles bulged. His face got red. He swung his sword high above his head, preparing to slay the monk.

"That is hell," the monk said softly.

The samurai froze. Suddenly he was overwhelmed by the compassion of this tiny, defenseless man who had just risked death to give his teaching. As he slowly lowered his sword, he was filled with gratitude and wonder.

"That is heaven," the monk said softly."



Much Love,

[afghooey]

Awesome post, JunkYard.

[JunkYard]

Love to you, afghooey...

[afghooey]

Right back at ya. ^^

[afghooey]

Thanks United. :thumbsup: I hope my post didn't come off as offensive or anything (sometimes it's hard to avoid that when discussing religious matters). I'm just trying to get a wider scope on this subject for myself and others who might have the same confusion, since I just don't understand some peoples' takes on it.

Anyhow, I appreciate the time everyone took to reply to this. :jointsmile: Thanks guys.

[Hamlet]

Ya hit on something there that the fire n' brimstone 'zoids don't ever think about, or at least don't like to think about. If a perfect God started a project called 'Earth and Man' to keep him busy, why would it be all fucked up? Couldn't a god set up his hobby to where it ran a whole lot smoother than having to judge and burn a few billion souls?

If he gave man 'free will' why would he make that will anything less than perfect? If there was and is a god, somewhere along the lines, there's no getting around the fact that ultimately, He's responsible for all the evil as well as all the good.

Life feeds on life, therefore all life is a struggle for domination and power. We didn't set it up that way, so if there is a god, he's the one responsible for the order of things and its consequences. Every creepy,crawly thing down here is just doing the best it can to get by and survive. Loftier virtues are a luxury of those who've reached a level of dominance and are not so pressured by the struggle. Throw that 'free will' in a more deperate situation and all those virtues will go right out the window.

Emotions such as greed and fear are no more than just survival mechanisms just like all the warm n' fuzzy ones we think of as virtues. We're stuck here in a mechanism of Cause and Effect--a cosmic watch ticking away and doing it's own thing. 'Judging' how it operates and the behavior of the pieces of protoplasm caught in the mechanism is as absurd as a child passing moral judgements on ants in an antfarm.