Hardest "Christian" thing to do?

[JunkYard]

You're versed, eh?

Can I ask you something? Do you think a person can discern the spirit of truth and the spirit of error in the Bible, or are you the type that says "All or nothing"?

Jesus was a cool cat, man. At least, I think so. The Old testament God was made out to be a jealous, angry brute, but I think this is simply due to mankind putting our own err.. qualities on him. (You know what I mean)

I doubt God wanted anything to do with all the violence attributed to him in the Old Testament. Mankind created the Bible, and mankind created much of the Bible God, imo. I'm not a Christian, but I like reading the Bible, and sift through the BS, so I can get to what's real...or what I believe to be real.

Theres good stuff in there...

Much Love,

JunkYard Reviewed by JunkYard on 11-13-2006. Hardest "Christian" thing to do? What is the number one teaching of Christianity that is the hardest for youto follow? I believe heavily in the teachings of Christ, but like every other human being in the world I "walk the line" like a drunk with a blindfold on. Atheists and agnostics please post your opinions, too; what do you think is the most demanding and spritually testing? Do you think the world would be a better place if more people followed it, or about the same? For me, personally: Love thy enemy. Rating: 5

[Oneironaut]

And by the way, you might want to check out Exodus 21, the chapter that comes right after the Ten Commandments, full of more commandments from God that are for some reason ignored by pretty much every Christian and Jew I know.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/21.html

21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

...

21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

...

21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"?! This Jehovah character seems to totally contradict this Jesus guy who claims to be him.

[Jared530]

Is it against the teachings to smoke?

[JunkYard]

And by the way, you might want to check out Exodus 21, the chapter that comes right after the Ten Commandments, full of more commandments from God that are for some reason ignored by pretty much every Christian and Jew I know.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/21.html

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"?! This Jehovah character seems to totally contradict this Jesus guy who claims to be him.

Jesus made the new law, which I view to be the correct one. Judge the spirit not the writ.

:smokin:

[Oneironaut]

You're versed, eh?

Can I ask you something? Do you think a person can discern the spirit of truth and the spirit of error in the Bible, or are you the type that says "All or nothing"?

Well, the Bible is a complicated book, but mostly it looks to be a collaboration of Jewish mythology which was used by their leaders to justify their territorial conquests, and appended to that is the story of a first-century Judaean man who may or may not have existed who like many others of the period claimed he was the messiah and performed some magic tricks and spoke a whole bunch of rhetoric about how we should act, which of course was heavily influenced by the cultural traditions of first-century Judaeans. An interesting historical document, but I'm afraid it doesn't seem to have any more validity than Homer's Odyssey.

Jesus was a cool cat, man. At least, I think so. The Old testament God was made out to be a jealous, angry brute, but I think this is simply due to mankind putting our own err.. qualities on him. (You know what I mean)

Why wouldn't God make a better holy book that portrays him as he truly is?

I doubt God wanted anything to do with all the violence attributed to him in the Old Testament. Mankind created the Bible, and mankind created much of the Bible God, imo. I'm not a Christian, but I like reading the Bible, and sift through the BS, so I can get to what's real...or what I believe to be real.

Theres good stuff in there...

Much Love,

I haven't really found a whole lot of good stuff. I mean, there are some common sense ethical things, like be nice and try not to hurt people or steal their stuff, but anybody could come up with that. Everybody knows stealing and killing and stuff is wrong, even people who have never even heard of the Bible. And there's a whole bunch of nonsense (There are three different spirits that are actually the same single spirit? Jesus becomes wine and bread that we drink and eat? Huh?) And then there's just complete crap, like the idea of giving up all self-defense, or gouging out my eyes if I commit a sin with them.

If you ask me, there are plenty of better philosophers out there with more detailed and logical ethical philosophies. Jesus, if he existed, was a product of his time, and he failed to condemn things like slavery and sexism and homophobia because in his time they were unquestioned traditions. We have transcended the ethics of first-century Judaea, and we can build for ourselves a better morality suited to our own modern society. We don't need ancient books to tell us what's right and what's wrong. It's much easier to figure it out for ourselves with trial and error, and rigorous thought. Ancient books are interesting to study, but they shouldn't be guides to our modern lives.

[Oneironaut]

Jesus made the new law, which I view to be the correct one. Judge the spirit not the writ.

:smokin:

So what's up with the old law then? Why couldn't God get it right the first time? How could he have fucked up so badly? If I were God, I wouldn't let a whole bunch of people going around saying I support slavery and baby-murdering and animal sacrifice and writing it down in their holy books. Why do Christians continue to publish this stuff? Why do they pick and choose which parts of the Old Testament they personally like and reject the ones they find morally disgusting? Do they think their own morality is better than the one God supposedly dictated to their holy prophets?

Is morality absolute or is it relative? Both, says the Christian!

[JunkYard]

God didn't make the Bible, man did, but it can serve as a great guide if you judge the spirit behind whats written. God won't interfere with what man chooses, so why would he interfere with how the Bible was written?

In my mind, I need no 'proof' of his existence...it's all around me. Why would God need give us more than what he gave in the beginning? (Life and creation) Besides, it doesn't matter if you believe in God, or not. He doesn't need, or demand your worship, imo. That is one of the most ridiculous concepts I've ever heard.

It [the Bible] can be complicated, but if you go in realizing that not everything written is literal, and judge by the spirit of Love, it's quite easy to sift through the BS, imo. Most Christians disagree, though, lol!

I think the crux of Jesus' message was love, and responsibility, and who knows what else Jesus said? How do you know he didn't condem those practices you mentioned? Only a very samll part of his life was recorded, but the part that was, is a wonderful testimony, imo.

Sure, there are other books you can derive many of the same ethics and principles from, but the Bible IS the most poplular. People like Ghandi, Buddha, and others of the like mind are great teachers just as Jesus was. It all comes down to what you choose to embrace, man.

Why the bitterness towards Jesus, God, and the Christians? They're just people looking for answers, too. Nevermind, I understand, man. I once felt the same way! I just decided to quit giving them power over me, and decided to make my own path. Minus, the attitude, inntolerance, bitterness, fear, and the anger that so many Christians display. My guide is the Bible. My teacher is Jesus, and no, I'm not a Christian...Just a fan of the man.

Much Love,

[JunkYard]

So what's up with the old law then? Why couldn't God get it right the first time? How could he have fucked up so badly? If I were God, I wouldn't let a whole bunch of people going around saying I support slavery and baby-murdering and animal sacrifice and writing it down in their holy books. Why do Christians continue to publish this stuff? Why do they pick and choose which parts of the Old Testament they personally like and reject the ones they find morally disgusting? Do they think their own morality is better than the one God supposedly dictated to their holy prophets?

Is morality absolute or is it relative? Both, says the Christian!

Why would he, man? We're allowed to fuck up...that's the beauty of free will. I'm sure God knows that we [mankind] will figure it out sooner or later, lol! The Bible is full of BS, and until we question what's written, including the man laws brought down from the so called prophets, it will remain the same. People like you don't help, either. You got the all or nothing attitude when it comes to the Bible, and that is the exact same problem with Christians. This attitude only reinforces their beliefs that the Bible is error free.

All or nothing...give me a break! Thats like saying in order to be an american, you have to agree with EVERYTHING our government does, and tells us.

Bahh!

[Oneironaut]

God didn't make the Bible, man did, but it can serve as a great guide if you judge the spirit behind whats written.

I judge the spirit behind slavery, genocide, killing someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, and killing gay men to be hateful and outdated. And I judge the spirit of the long list of begats to be extremely boring. Please, direct me to the section of the Bible that has something enlightening that I can apply to my own life. Sure, there's a little bit in there, but it's very ambiguously worded, it has to be translated from ancient Hebrew/Greek, and it sure is surrounded by a lot of sexist, violent filler which also manages to get extreeeeemely boring despite all the disgustingness.

My name is Levi. Go read the Biblical story of Levi and the Shechemites and tell me what you think of the spirit behind that story. Needless to say, I'm not very pleased to be named after that asshole.

God won't interfere with what man chooses, so why would he interfere with how the Bible was written?

Are you kidding me? In the Bible, God interferes with what man chooses all the time! Noah's flood, the Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Egyptian enslavement of the Jews, the leading of the Jews over other tribes. That's all interference.

I think if there really was a God, he would want people to know he exists and would want people to know a little bit about who he is. If he can't get off his ass to say anything to us or show himself, how can we possibly know anything about him? An entity about which we know nothing is indistinguishable from a non-existent entity.

In my mind, I need no 'proof' of his existence...it's all around me.

What? You need no proof, because the proof you need is all around you? That doesn't make any sense.

Why would God need give us more than what he gave in the beginning? (Life and creation) Besides, it doesn't matter if you believe in God, or not. He doesn't need, or demand your worship, imo. That is one of the most ridiculous concepts I've ever heard.

So what's the deal with the First Commandment? Jesus was a real big fan of the Ten Commandments, you know.

It [the Bible] can be complicated, but if you go in realizing that not everything written is literal, and judge by the spirit of Love,

It's hard with such a bigoted, hate-filled book.

it's quite easy to sift through the BS, imo. Most Christians disagree, though, lol!

I refuse to be part of a religion that has any kind of bullshit in its holy book. How can you even call it a holy book if it's actually a very holey book? I just don't see what's so special about it. It's badly written, it supports all kinds of barbarisms, and it trails off into a lot of nonsense quite often, and it's got a lot of filler. It just isn't very interesting and I haven't learned any deep moral lessons from it. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, that's all cool. But then it says don't look at hot chicks, don't eat shellfish, don't eat bats, don't eat snakes, don't wear two clothes of the same fabric, don't be gay, don't work on the Sabbath, don't do your animal sacrifices incorrectly or God won't like the smell of it, don't marry a divorced woman, don't take a shit in a hole and not cover it up, don't touch a chick when she's on her period, blah blah blah blah blah. It doesn't really sound that divinely inspired to me. A supreme being would definitely be able to come up with much better ideas than that.

I think the crux of Jesus' message was love, and responsibility, and who knows what else Jesus said? How do you know he didn't condem those practices you mentioned? Only a very samll part of his life was recorded, but the part that was, is a wonderful testimony, imo.

Lots of people believe in love and responsibility. Why not hold Socrates with the same merit. At least Socrates didn't pretend to be God or threaten you with eternal torture if you didn't behave yourself.

Sure, there are other books you can derive many of the same ethics and principles from, but the Bible IS the most poplular.

So what? It's barbaric.

People like Ghandi, Buddha, and others of the like mind are great teachers just as Jesus was. It all comes down to what you choose to embrace, man.

Why the bitterness towards Jesus, God, and the Christians? They're just people looking for answers, too.

Well, they're looking in the wrong places. I don't have any hostility towards Christians, I just find Christianity itself to be a bunch of superstitious hogwash mixed with some ambiguous moralities that lends itself too often to fundamentalism and extremism which can have disastrous consequences. Nobody ever started a witch hunt over an obscure passage in the early works of Voltaire, or instigated a Crusade over the eternal divine truth of Immanuel Kant's message to humanity.

Nevermind, I understand, man. I once felt the same way! I just decided to quit giving them power over me, and decided to make my own path. Minus, the attitude, inntolerance, bitterness, fear, and the anger that so many Christians display. My guide is the Bible. My teacher is Jesus, and no, I'm not a Christian...Just a fan of the man.

Much Love,

I just don't see what the big fuss is about Jesus. What was so important that he had to say? Play nice, and be responsible, and ask for forgiveness, or God will kick your ass? Ooh look, I'm God, watch me walk on water? Eat bread and drink wine and pretend you're cannibals eating me? What's so special about that message?

[JunkYard]

I judge the spirit behind slavery, genocide, killing someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, and killing gay men to be hateful and outdated. And I judge the spirit of the long list of begats to be extremely boring. Please, direct me to the section of the Bible that has something enlightening that I can apply to my own life. Sure, there's a little bit in there, but it's very ambiguously worded, it has to be translated from ancient Hebrew/Greek, and it sure is surrounded by a lot of sexist, violent filler which also manages to get extreeeeemely boring despite all the disgustingness.

Try Proverbs, or Psalms, or 'some' of John, 1 John, 2 John, theres alot of good stuff if you look, man but you won't find it w/o a willing attitude, sorry.

Are you kidding me? In the Bible, God interferes with what man chooses all the time! Noah's flood, the Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Egyptian enslavement of the Jews, the leading of the Jews over other tribes. That's all interference.

If you choose to believe that....btw, he never interferes with 'choice' it was man's choice to portray God in that manner.

I think if there really was a God, he would want people to know he exists and would want people to know a little bit about who he is. If he can't get off his ass to say anything to us or show himself, how can we possibly know anything about him? An entity about which we know nothing is indistinguishable from a non-existent entity.

I don't need him to prove himself, but I guess others are different. Like I said, I don't think it matters if you 'believe', or not. It's your 'choice'.

What? You need no proof, because the proof you need is all around you? That doesn't make any sense.

I exist, I see a beautiful creation, I see life, birth, death everyday. Why would I need anything more?

So what's the deal with the First Commandment? Jesus was a real big fan of the Ten Commandments, you know.

God IS life...Love life.

It's hard with such a bigoted, hate-filled book.

I know...

I refuse to be part of a religion that has any kind of bullshit in its holy book. How can you even call it a holy book if it's actually a very holey book? I just don't see what's so special about it.

Then don't, I'm certainly not asking you to. You have your Odyssey.

It's badly written, it supports all kinds of barbarisms, and it trails off into a lot of nonsense quite often, and it's got a lot of filler. It just isn't very interesting and I haven't learned any deep moral lessons from it. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, that's all cool. But then it says don't look at hot chicks, don't eat shellfish, don't eat bats, don't eat snakes, don't wear two clothes of the same fabric, don't be gay, don't work on the Sabbath, don't do your animal sacrifices incorrectly or God won't like the smell of it, don't marry a divorced woman, don't take a shit in a hole and not cover it up, don't touch a chick when she's on her period, blah blah blah blah blah. It doesn't really sound that divinely inspired to me. A supreme being would definitely be able to come up with much better ideas than that.

Yup, man twisted it up pretty good, huh?

Lots of people believe in love and responsibility. Why not hold Socrates with the same merit. At least Socrates didn't pretend to be God or threaten you with eternal torture if you didn't behave yourself.

I respect all who value these things. I believe the Church had an agenda when pushing the whole fire and brimstone issue...

Well, they're looking in the wrong places. I don't have any hostility towards Christians, I just find Christianity itself to be a bunch of superstitious hogwash mixed with some ambiguous moralities that lends itself too often to fundamentalism and extremism which can have disastrous consequences. Nobody ever started a witch hunt over an obscure passage in the early works of Voltaire, or instigated a Crusade over the eternal divine truth of Immanuel Kant's message to humanity.

I agree, the Bible in the hands of the fearful and true believers can be a dagerous thing.

I just don't see what the big fuss is about Jesus. What was so important that he had to say? Play nice, and be responsible, and ask for forgiveness, or God will kick your ass? Ooh look, I'm God, watch me walk on water? Eat bread and drink wine and pretend you're cannibals eating me? What's so special about that message?

Because it will be 'his' message that helps change the world...The Bible is going nowhere, man. People want to believe in Jesus. People need to believe in Jesus, and his words truly inspire. So does Ghandi, the teachings of Buddha and others of the like mind...


Much Love,